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(Daily Mail)   Stuff the Soviets did in the 1970s is causing big trouble today. Thanks, guys. Thanks a LOT   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 107
    More: Sad, anti-American, Soviet Union, United States, KGB, clandestine operations, Muslims, Ceausescu, Soviet Premier  
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26573 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jun 2013 at 9:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-27 09:32:59 AM  

NostroZ: TWX: vpb: I think it was the Catholics.  All those Crusades did it.

Well, simply from a historical point of view, the Crusades held territory East of the Mediterranean for 192 years. Modern Israel has existed for 65 years, or basically 1/3 of the time that the Kingdom of Israel existed during the European Dark Ages.

Assuming the article is true, if the Soviets wanted to force the West to spend its resources without doing more than attempting to maintain the status quo then they were really effective, especially since it's not a terribly large leap to go from Western Crusades to supposing a Western-backed modern crusade, regardless of the veracity of the belief.

Sometimes I wonder if the Allies had given over a portion of Germany as a Jewish homeland, as opposed to what became Israel, if things would have been different. Had a Jewish state been set up from a portion of the country that did them the most harm in modern times similar to how Russia received the Kaliningrad Oblast during the Potsdam Agreement, I suspect that the West wouldn't have had to spend so many resources. Obviously we can never know, but it's an interesting thought experiment.

Yeah.
An interesting thought experiment... here's another one for you... since Lincoln himself knew that the African Americans would never be accepted as US citizens or equals, he was in favor of mass deportation back to Africa.  Liberia is in fact a country setup by free US slaves looking to go back to Africa.

Now, since I am assuming you are neither Jewish or Black... please try out your thought experiment in regards to forcing ALL of the black people who were already in America OUT to a place they did not want to go to.

Go ahead... see if it sounds at all bigoted or racist.

/Jews have been living in Israel of thousands of years
//That's where Jews wanted a homelands, that's where they DIED defending / creating a homeland.
///Unless you are practicing Jewish, I'd suggest you avoid your disturbing thought experiments ...


Well put indeed. Kudos.
 
2013-06-27 09:33:12 AM  

Oatworm: If you really want to understand the Middle East, think of your average put-upon geek that's been bullied and kicked around for years. Some of them turn out okay, but a large portion of them turn out bitter and misanthropic. What happens if one of the bitter and misanthropic ones suddenly gets a bunch of money? They start doing really stupid things to prove something to the people that used to push them around, right? Now imagine if an entire culture was tossed into the garbage can during recess and hassled over lunch money every day for 150-200 years. Even if we stop bullying them, they're not going to be magically okay with us, "friend" us on Facebook, and reminisce about the good ol' days at international high school reunions - they're going to get even. Then they're going to raise their  kids to get even. And that's a problem because, well, we're already having terrorist versions of Columbine and Sandy Hook from these guys - if most of them are no longer intimidated by us, then what?


You my Farker friend sound like a reasonable person who finally asked the question that most Israelis did after decades of terrorism.  The answer is simple, the same answer people have given to the question of what do we do against invaders who want to do us harm... kill our women, children, and elderly indiscriminately in a campaign of terror to prove that we should fear them?

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

You build a fence... since good fences make good neighbors.
The only solution to the Middle Eastern problems is to let people live and insert as little hatred as you can humanly possible into this volatile topic.  Then just wait for the old hate to die out and be replaced by more optimistic youth.  That's the only answer I've ever heard that makes sense.
 
2013-06-27 09:37:02 AM  

Joe Blowme: As if islam needed any help in hating the US and Jews


I think that's the point of the article... they DID get help.

Perhaps why the US is referred to as BIG SATAN and Israel LITTLE SATAN in all the propaganda.

It's important to understand history if you are to undo the mistakes committed by our fathers.
 
2013-06-27 12:01:14 PM  

Livingroom: Relatively Obscure: This all stems from the Bing Bang.  Without it, we wouldn't have any of the problems we suffer through today.

this is what i'm going to name my bing-based porn search portal.



I'd bing it.
 
2013-06-27 12:03:37 PM  

sat1va: In the lead-up to the British and US Iranian coup d'etat in 1953 which overthrew the young Iranian democracy and installed the western friendly Shah to act as monarch who was sure to protect western oil interests, the CIA guided and participated in terrorist acts that were made to look like they were committed by communists in to help support the coup. The 25 year reign of the Shah was overthrown by young Islamic fundamentalists, perhaps with the aid of Communist propaganda, but I doubt they needed much coaxing since those young students grew up knowing the CIA had destroyed their democracy.

From wiki:

In early August, the C.I.A. stepped up the pressure. Iranian operatives pretending to be Communists threatened Muslim leaders withsavage punishment if they opposed Mossadegh, seeking to stir anti-Communist sentiment in the religious community. In addition, the secret history says, the house of at least one prominent Muslim was bombed by C.I.A. agents posing as Communists. It does not say whether anyone was hurt in this attack. The agency was also intensifying its propaganda campaign. A leading newspaper owner was granted a personal loan of about $45,000,in the belief that this would make his organ amenable to our purposes. But the shah remained intransigent. In an 1 August meeting with General, he refused to sign the C.I.A.-written decrees firing Mr. Mossadegh and appointing General Zahedi. He said he doubted that the army would support him in a showdown.


Umm. The Shah ruled for 38 years. Look up the Anglo-Soviet Invasion of Iran sometime. The Shah was neutral between the British and the Soviets when they divided the country amongst themselves for the duration of WWII, while his father was pro-Nazi. Given Iran's strategic location and proximity to the oil fields of Azerbaijan, Stalin was keen on keeping his half of the country when he was supposed to withdraw in 1946, and you can make the argument that the Soviet propaganda efforts started in Iran much earlier than the 1970s. I see no functional difference between the events of 1946, and the events of 1953 - The British had problems getting the Soviets to abide by their agreements, and had the US come in with the money/material to fix the problem for them. The talk about Mossadegh being a representative of a democratic government is cute though.
 
2013-06-27 06:33:42 PM  

Relatively Obscure: This all stems from the Bing Bang.  Without it, we wouldn't have any of the problems we suffer through today.


Moments before the Bing Bang:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-27 06:59:18 PM  
There's been around 100,000 Syrians killed during their civil war the last couple years.  Muslims dead at the hands of other Muslims.

Are you sure the commies didn't do us a favor here?
 
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