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(Appleton Post Crescent)   Fifth year of high school would give kids opportunities to be lazy little shiats for another year   (postcrescent.com) divider line 34
    More: Asinine, fifth year, school colors, high schools  
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4698 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jun 2013 at 5:21 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-26 05:22:23 PM  
6 votes:
You can add 2 years to high school and it wouldn't make a difference. They're not really out to educate anyone. They're there to give standardization tests to ensure than everyone has the absolute bare minimum of what they need to know to pass whatever test of the year they need to pass.

The problem isn't how many years but what type of content is being learned. When you dumb down the curriculum to meet the lowest common student you're essentially wasting the time of the other 75%. As long as they pass those tests though the school leadership can get their bonuses!
2013-06-26 05:54:05 PM  
4 votes:
The author of TFA just graduated from high school.  She's suffering separation anxiety, just like her  first day in kindergarten.

She'll get over it when she discovers frat parties.
2013-06-26 05:26:22 PM  
4 votes:
They already have a 5th year of high school. It's called the 1st year of college.
2013-06-26 06:25:36 PM  
2 votes:
First repeal NCLB. No other solution matters until then.

After that, here's a bunch of other pipe dream education solutions I can think of or endorse:
- Open more schools. More schools means more teachers and fewer students per building. Thus smaller class sizes and more attention can be paid per student.

- Year round school. My 10-year old self would be aghast to hear that suggestion, but if it helps retention of knowledge and allows students to advance to higher learning it will be for the greater good in the long run.

- Start school later in the day. One of the worst parts about school was waking up so early when, as a kid and teenager, you need more sleep. School from 10-5 would probably have so much better attention on average.

- Integrate subjects. English and reading give a student the most basic skills to learn anything else. There is history to math and science. Sports (i.e. Gym class) have physical and mathematical underpinnings to them, not to mention history and statistics. When subjects are taught in isolation of each other, they make the world feel disjointed and lacking in context.

- Critical thinking and Logic should be more emphasized from as early as possible and throughout high school. They might not remember when Burr shot Hamilton or know the square root of 4, but if they can reason their way through their day in a rational, logical manner their education will not be in vain.

- More essays, less multiple choice. Essays allow a student to directly communicate their knowledge. Multiple choice is usually a matter of odds. If students are taught to articulate their thoughts in tests more than filling in blanks or circles, then as adults they will be better trained to articulate their thoughts to others on a general basis.
2013-06-26 06:12:01 PM  
2 votes:

rubi_con_man: xynix: The problem isn't how many years but what type of content is being learned. When you dumb down the curriculum to meet the lowest common student you're essentially wasting the time of the other 75%. As long as they pass those tests though the school leadership can get their bonuses!

In many many western school systems they *kick out* the kids at 15, and only the smart 'half' get to take the last three years, ensuring that they go at a REAL speed and don't squander dollars. The lower half gets to go to trade and art schools, which does very well for many of them (Pink Floyd met at one such school, David Bowie attended one too).

I wonder what would happen if they had to 'remove' the bottom-performing 20% of students every year in June, starting at age 8th grade? at the start of ninth grade, you're have (instead of 100 inductees at 8th grade) 80 students. At the start of 10th grade, 64. At the start of 11th, you'd have 52 students.


That would be a silly system. Set a few hard cut off points on grades. And none of that silly letter grading or on a curve. Just keep track of the percentages of the points students get for their exams. Every year drop people who score lower than 60% on the course.

As I have said before, we have a tiered education program in the Netherlands. Everyone follows the same curriculum from age 4 up to age 12 (8 years in one "basis"school) and after that you get to pick your level, with some guidance based on how well you did on a national exam and the opinion of your teacher. And once you pick the tier you feel best about, everyone can go his or her merry way.

This system ensures that people are being taught at their level. No being bored because other people don't understand how to calculate the surface as expressed in cats (20 cats by 25 cats makes the surface 500 square cats) or the physics behind the ideal beer bong (you get to drive at 16, we get to drink beer at 16. You get to drink alcohol at 21, we get to drink hard liquor, smoke weed and drive at 18). I know people who had subject matter in year four that was discussed in my first year. I'd be dead by now if I had to go at that speed.
2013-06-26 06:02:44 PM  
2 votes:

RatMaster999: Why not have two schools? One for the college track kids, and one for trade track kids? The tards can do their crafts at home.


That works too.
2013-06-26 05:46:27 PM  
2 votes:

iheartscotch: blatz514: A lot of kids go to high school for 5 years.  They're called idiots.

Anymore, you need a act of congress to hold a kid back in school; most public schools choose to either pass the buck or "encourage" the student in question to drop out.

/ frankly, school isn't for everybody. If it were up to me, I'd allow 16 yearolds to drop out; get the kids that don't want to learn out of the classroom.


If the education system would RECOGNIZE that some kids are going to be tradesmen, laborers, or equipment operators they could be taking wicked useful curriculum instead of stuff they are trying to ignore.

/there used to be shop classes. I saw a saw at school once.
2013-06-26 05:36:09 PM  
2 votes:

xynix: The problem isn't how many years but what type of content is being learned. When you dumb down the curriculum to meet the lowest common student you're essentially wasting the time of the other 75%. As long as they pass those tests though the school leadership can get their bonuses!


In many many western school systems they *kick out* the kids at 15, and only the smart 'half' get to take the last three years, ensuring that they go at a REAL speed and don't squander dollars. The lower half gets to go to trade and art schools, which does very well for many of them (Pink Floyd met at one such school, David Bowie attended one too).

I wonder what would happen if they had to 'remove' the bottom-performing 20% of students every year in June, starting at age 8th grade? at the start of ninth grade, you're have (instead of 100 inductees at 8th grade) 80 students. At the start of 10th grade, 64. At the start of 11th, you'd have 52 students.
2013-06-26 05:34:17 PM  
2 votes:
I strongly urge anyone that has a friend or family member starting high school to implore the kid to just skip high school. Seriously. Get the GED and just go to college.

Smartest guy I know was a 16 year old freshman when I was a 25 year old "retread" going back to school (I bailed out of engineering but was much happier in management information systems). Dude works for some sort of government agency that he doesn't talk about much and is into cryptocurrencies.

The first couple of years of college are something that any reasonably bright twelve year old could handle, academically.
2013-06-26 05:32:55 PM  
2 votes:
Seriously?  Add a year?  I honestly think we could cut out a year and get roughly the same outcomes.  Pretty much everyone is either in college mode or checked out by senior year anyway.
2013-06-26 05:23:02 PM  
2 votes:
A lot of kids go to high school for 5 years.  They're called idiots.
2013-06-26 05:22:43 PM  
2 votes:
No thank you 4 was enough for me.
2013-06-26 09:13:57 PM  
1 votes:

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Well, that was the wrong farking thread.


Not really...
2013-06-26 07:24:31 PM  
1 votes:

wildcardjack: farking morons. Futurama got it right when they said highschool is basically daycare for young adults.


Came to say this.
Public schools (all grades) are simply publicly funded daycare.  Once you accept this the failures of the system make perfect sense.
2013-06-26 07:03:38 PM  
1 votes:
Do away with "No Student Left Behind" and start teaching the kids that want to learn.  Let the other be stupid somewhere else.  Life is about succeeding and failing.  Teach that.
2013-06-26 06:58:28 PM  
1 votes:

Keeve: A lot of people take 7 years to graduate.


CSB

I recently interviewed a candidate who wrote on his resume his start and end dates for his bachelors degree in basketweaving... It took him 7 years.

Then I cross referenced his LinkedIn profile and found out he had failed to mention he went to community college first for 2 years before going to this "university" (both while not working except at one student aid job for about 6 months) and lied about the dates, meaning he spent 8 years on that bachelors after community college.

-Total of 10 years to get a BS in basketweaving from dipshiat "university".

My boss told me his "friend" gave him this resume, so he wanted to interview him anyway. Turns out his "friend" was one of our vendors, and this guy had worked for his "friend" at another company.

When confronted with this my boss's face went white and said, "I didn't know that, he just handed me his resume". -This is known as a conflict of interest.

So we go on to interview the guy. After an hour and a half of this guy rambling on about every thing under the sun *except* his qualifications (and drawing a picture of a PC when asked to describe how to create an LPAR), we were done. I asked my boss what he thought... He thought it went *well*.

I then mentioned to him... "You *do* realize he didn't answer a single technical question I gave him correctly right?"

"Oh."

FFS if you are in a position to hire someone in IT for a management position, please make sure they at least have a BS in Computer Science. No, you *can't* manage technical people if you can't understand the work. -Anyone who thinks they can is a colossal idiot and is going to cost you *mountains* of money and pain.
2013-06-26 06:56:44 PM  
1 votes:

rubi_con_man: xynix: The problem isn't how many years but what type of content is being learned. When you dumb down the curriculum to meet the lowest common student you're essentially wasting the time of the other 75%. As long as they pass those tests though the school leadership can get their bonuses!

In many many western school systems they *kick out* the kids at 15, and only the smart 'half' get to take the last three years, ensuring that they go at a REAL speed and don't squander dollars. The lower half gets to go to trade and art schools, which does very well for many of them (Pink Floyd met at one such school, David Bowie attended one too).

I wonder what would happen if they had to 'remove' the bottom-performing 20% of students every year in June, starting at age 8th grade? at the start of ninth grade, you're have (instead of 100 inductees at 8th grade) 80 students. At the start of 10th grade, 64. At the start of 11th, you'd have 52 students.


This is actually a really good idea, but here in the US we have everybody worshiping at the altar of the "Four Year Degree".  How many times do you hear people talking about making college educations available to everyone, how many parents and relatives told you that you can't amount to anything without a college degree.  We've embedded college into the American Dream myth as definitively as a tract home in the suburbs, a dog, and 2.5 children.

And yeah, that is bad.  The world needs ditch diggers, more importantly it needs plumbers, carpenters, machinists, and all sorts of skilled trades that don't require a Batchelor's.  It's made a mockery of what a proper college education used to be, an education that was *not* really needed by most people.  But you'll never get people to accept that learning a trade by apprenticeship or going to a vocational school is somehow not a failure, because it is "less" of an education than the fancy pants college kid with his degree on the wall.  And remember, in america, everyone deserves the best.
2013-06-26 06:56:09 PM  
1 votes:

profplump: But throughout human history we've been much more likely to make important the things we know how to measure than to learn to measure the things that are important.


application.denofgeek.com
2013-06-26 06:54:27 PM  
1 votes:

AgentKGB: I'd say most kids by the age of about 14 know whether they're in the "going to college/university" group or not...


That's not true at all. There's such a huge push in high schools to tell everyone to go to college that more than 65% of graduating high school students immediately enroll in a degree-granting program (i.e. associate or bachelors program). But only about 40% of them will eventually earn a degree (and only about 30% a bachelor's). That's not an insignificant difference, and that's among 18-year-olds. I expect at 14-years-old the gap is even wider.

Now that's not to say we couldn't give kids more realistic expectations while still encouraging high educational attainment, but the system we've got today does no such thing.
2013-06-26 06:53:50 PM  
1 votes:
The high school my kid is starting in the fall has a trimester program. The classes are more consensed, and for students who work hard enough, part of their junior year and all of their senior year could count towards college credit.

They also have a building trades and shop program for those less inclined towards a 4-year college program. This school system also has no problem having kids repeat a grade if they don't meet their academic standards. Several graduates have done an extra year (or even two) here.

I'm about ready to lobby for shorter summer vacation and later start times though. 7:30am is BS.
2013-06-26 06:50:11 PM  
1 votes:
profplump: But throughout human history we've been much more likely to make important the things we know how to measure than to learn to measure the things that are important.

EVERYONE SHUT UP AND READ THIS.

Thank you.
2013-06-26 06:42:09 PM  
1 votes:

Marcintosh: fifth year would be great.  School all year long would be greater.

College isn't for the poor or even the middle class.  It was designed for the rich.  If you're not rich then it can be a full-on waste of time and money.
I'm not talking about 250k a year rich or even 500k a year rich.  College was designed for the children of the rich to meet other children of the rich.
Choate? Rich Harvard? rich UCONN? Trade school MIT? engineers - not necessarily rich

doesn't matter if it's five years or six - If you aren't in the top 20% of wage earners, college might just be a huge waste of time and money.
I teach at the university level - I work hardest and making it NOT a waste of time and money.


Have you ever read Neil Stephenson's essay on the Midwestern American College Town?

Yale and Harvard and similar were totally designed for the rich to be rich.  Pretty much every other state college west of the Appalachians were designed to let the middle-class be middle-class.
2013-06-26 06:09:15 PM  
1 votes:
FTA: To many people, four years in one building can seem endless.

Just wait until those people hit the working world.
2013-06-26 06:05:54 PM  
1 votes:
Why not two more years or ten?!

My senior year and the senior slide was evident.  I had two teachers who's goal was to fail as many seniors as possible, I had some teachers who said "Your seniors, nothing I am teaching is going to matter in a few months and I get paid the same if I'm a hard teacher or an easy one."

The problem with high school is that it is so generalized that it does no good.  Me, I put in my 4 years, got that diploma and a minimum wage job.  A friend of mine dropped out, got a job the next day and as I was making minimum wage he was making $20/hr.  We need to change high school.  Put some who have the ability to do well in college into a college bound program.  Make them aware of every scholarship out there, get them doing college work early.  Even blend their jr. and senior years into college years.  Those that aren't college material, go for a trade.  Something so that when they graduate they don't have to settle for a minimum wage job, but rather, earn more money from the start, or even, earn money while in school doing some sort of co-op.
2013-06-26 06:00:02 PM  
1 votes:
The author should spend his fifth year taking a logic class.   If you have another year to do more activities, etc. for college applications, so does everyone else.

Not to mention we have so much extra room in our schools, and extra teachers, etc.  But I especially like this part:    I would have returned to Japan for another year of studying there


So what you would do with your fifth year is not go to your school?  Genius.
2013-06-26 05:54:41 PM  
1 votes:

umad: rubi_con_man: xynix: The problem isn't how many years but what type of content is being learned. When you dumb down the curriculum to meet the lowest common student you're essentially wasting the time of the other 75%. As long as they pass those tests though the school leadership can get their bonuses!

In many many western school systems they *kick out* the kids at 15, and only the smart 'half' get to take the last three years, ensuring that they go at a REAL speed and don't squander dollars. The lower half gets to go to trade and art schools, which does very well for many of them (Pink Floyd met at one such school, David Bowie attended one too).

I wonder what would happen if they had to 'remove' the bottom-performing 20% of students every year in June, starting at age 8th grade? at the start of ninth grade, you're have (instead of 100 inductees at 8th grade) 80 students. At the start of 10th grade, 64. At the start of 11th, you'd have 52 students.

We don't need to kick them out. We just need to bring back the tard classes for the dumb kids. They can do crafts for participation ribbons while the smart kids actually learn.


Why not have two schools?  One for the college track kids, and one for trade track kids?  The tards can do their crafts at home.
2013-06-26 05:54:15 PM  
1 votes:
This person's reasoning for wanting an extra year is to pack on more extracurricular activities to impress colleges because they didn't listen to what every teacher probably told them from Freshman year.
2013-06-26 05:45:36 PM  
1 votes:
"I've been going to this high school for seven and a half years. I'm no dummy."

25.media.tumblr.com
2013-06-26 05:44:20 PM  
1 votes:

Goodluckfox: I strongly urge anyone that has a friend or family member starting high school to implore the kid to just skip high school. Seriously. Get the GED and just go to college.

Smartest guy I know was a 16 year old freshman when I was a 25 year old "retread" going back to school (I bailed out of engineering but was much happier in management information systems). Dude works for some sort of government agency that he doesn't talk about much and is into cryptocurrencies.

The first couple of years of college are something that any reasonably bright twelve year old could handle, academically.


It's not just about the level of challenge. Maturity is a major issue. The person in your anecdote is obviously well off normal. You can't design the system for outliers. As I noted above, I did 5 years of high school. It was normal at the time. We basically took first year university classes and grades were critical for admission in university. It was a good experience in hindsight.

Also keep in mind that education is not about learning specific usable skills. A lot of it is learning disciple and simply learning how to learn efficiently. People who say "I never apply my degree, it was pointless" really don't get that. I'm a perfect example: my degree is in computer engineering which back then was 90% electrical engineering and 10% comp sci. I went into software so I've applied maybe 5% of what I learned in my job but I'm very good at what I do. I am good learner: point me at a problem and I will learn the skills necessary to solve it very quickly. Eventually you get to the point where it's not about skills anymore, it's about the ability to almost immediately grasp the larger picture and the agility to be able to dive into any specific problem and solve it.
2013-06-26 05:38:36 PM  
1 votes:
Oh, to be young and stupid again.... And also a robot.

I'm undeniably in support of giving high schoolers one more year to develop their skills, achieve more of their many goals and to discover the never-ending possibilities of their future.

You don't have to stop working towards your goals once you exit high school...

The reality is that four years is much too little time for many students to do all that they would like to.

That's what college is for, dipshiat.
2013-06-26 05:37:51 PM  
1 votes:
Reordering the school year so there is a shorter summer break but longer breaks during the school year might be a better way to do it.

Why we still base the school year on agrarian standards is beyond me.

The tourism industry will biatch and moan, but come on guys, the time between Thanksgiving and the New Year off as winter break, and two weeks during spring break, and 8 weeks in the summer.  You'll thank me for the boost in revenue later.
2013-06-26 05:36:32 PM  
1 votes:
High school is a waste of time on many levels. Get your GED or state approved high school proficiency exam by 15, then save yourself a load of money working and going to cheap junior/community college the first two years, then transfer to a four year university and graduate. That last part is all your employer will care about. Ta-da!
2013-06-26 05:31:41 PM  
1 votes:
I took a fifth year of high school.  It was called "Junior College" and I had to earn money in order to do it.
2013-06-26 05:26:25 PM  
1 votes:

xynix: The problem isn't how many years but what type of content is being learned. When you dumb down the curriculum to meet the lowest common student you're essentially wasting the time of the other 75%.


So. Much. This.  High school (and most of my first two years of college) were such an exercise in trying to stay awake.
 
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