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(Appleton Post Crescent)   Fifth year of high school would give kids opportunities to be lazy little shiats for another year   (postcrescent.com) divider line 134
    More: Asinine, fifth year, school colors, high schools  
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4690 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jun 2013 at 5:21 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-26 06:02:44 PM

RatMaster999: Why not have two schools? One for the college track kids, and one for trade track kids? The tards can do their crafts at home.


That works too.
 
2013-06-26 06:02:46 PM
The big problem with high school is that classes don't move fast enough to be interesting, while simultaneously teaching just enough to make it nearly impossible to skip a year*.

I skipped a grade back in elementary school and as a result missed the first semester of Spanish.  Never got caught up.  Spent 2.5 years being frustrated before they hit the giant reset button in 7th grade.

Should they have been moving faster?  (And could the exceedingly pointless 3/4ths of a year spent on geometry that wasn't trig been skipped or shortened?)  Yep.  Could I have skipped a year, and popped right back into place without major, major pain?  Nope.

* This only applies to things like Math, and to a certain extent Science where Year N+1 builds on Year N.  My various history classes could have been in any order.
 
2013-06-26 06:03:47 PM
farking morons. Futurama got it right when they said highschool is basically daycare for young adults. It's because EVERYONE is supposed to go they have softened the standards. So you get people who don't want to be there and make trouble, and you have people who shouldn't be there and get bored and make trouble.

The average freshman could be run through a GED program in a few weeks. If you can't make four years of HS better then fark off.

If you have a smart but bored kid his behavioral problems are boredom. It took until years after HS for me to realize how badly my so called educators failed me. When the other kids were reading Boxcar Kids and I was reading Asimov's Foundation books THEY SHOULD have noticed the difference.

I had these as my first educators.

fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net

I was born in late 79 and learned touch typing on an Apple IIc from some bears. I played text adventures (at home) while in first grade.

I can only hope educators have learned to separate out the kids coming pre-educated from the unread masses. There's a lot of ADHD that's just a matter of accelerating the kids to beyond their zone of competence.
 
2013-06-26 06:05:19 PM
No.
 
2013-06-26 06:05:30 PM

RatMaster999: Why not have two schools?  One for the college track kids, and one for trade track kids?  The tards can do their crafts at home.


We have that already.. It's called private school (where my son goes) and public school. My son's school is college prep until 11th grade and part of 12th they start college courses. 100% college attendance rate since 2007. 98% of those grads were accepted into their first choice. Class size is around 10 with 40-50 students per grade level.

Smeggy Smurf: Standardized tests are no different than the professional liscensing tests of today.  You must have a basic minimum of knowledge to pass.  It's not a difficult concept.


Unfortunately when you're only job is to do the bare minimum to get people to pass those tests.. the vast majority are short changed.
 
2013-06-26 06:05:44 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: drop team sports all together


Surely it would be good for our kids to get even less exercise than they do currently. What could possibly go wrong? We should cut P.E. and recess too.
 
2013-06-26 06:05:54 PM
Why not two more years or ten?!

My senior year and the senior slide was evident.  I had two teachers who's goal was to fail as many seniors as possible, I had some teachers who said "Your seniors, nothing I am teaching is going to matter in a few months and I get paid the same if I'm a hard teacher or an easy one."

The problem with high school is that it is so generalized that it does no good.  Me, I put in my 4 years, got that diploma and a minimum wage job.  A friend of mine dropped out, got a job the next day and as I was making minimum wage he was making $20/hr.  We need to change high school.  Put some who have the ability to do well in college into a college bound program.  Make them aware of every scholarship out there, get them doing college work early.  Even blend their jr. and senior years into college years.  Those that aren't college material, go for a trade.  Something so that when they graduate they don't have to settle for a minimum wage job, but rather, earn more money from the start, or even, earn money while in school doing some sort of co-op.
 
2013-06-26 06:08:00 PM

LeroyBourne: Keeve: Keeve: A lot of people take 7 years to graduate.

That would have made a little more sense with the Tommy Boy scene I tried to attach.

No no.  In my head I went right there and was gonna finish it, but no need now.


Yeah, THEY'RE CALLED DOCTORS!

//gah...  sorry... I couldn't hold it in any longer...
 
2013-06-26 06:09:15 PM
FTA: To many people, four years in one building can seem endless.

Just wait until those people hit the working world.
 
2013-06-26 06:09:34 PM
Articles like this are proof-positive that dipshiats like the author Mia Sato shouldn't be allowed to vote or breed.

Such inane meanderings and cluelessness are usually reserved for rehab facilities full of retarded monkeys.
 
2013-06-26 06:10:47 PM
I did Grade 13 in Toronto. Don't remember the details, but I seems to remember I picked a lot of courses (Calculus, Higher Algebra, etc.) relevant to what I planned to take (Chemistry and Electrical) in university. It did help quite a bit.
 
2013-06-26 06:11:51 PM

umad: Ego edo infantia cattus: drop team sports all together

Surely it would be good for our kids to get even less exercise than they do currently. What could possibly go wrong? We should cut P.E. and recess too.


Especially seeing as team sports don't really take away from any class time.   Over my high school career I played 6 different varsity sports.

And I could throw a football over those mountains.
 
2013-06-26 06:12:01 PM

rubi_con_man: xynix: The problem isn't how many years but what type of content is being learned. When you dumb down the curriculum to meet the lowest common student you're essentially wasting the time of the other 75%. As long as they pass those tests though the school leadership can get their bonuses!

In many many western school systems they *kick out* the kids at 15, and only the smart 'half' get to take the last three years, ensuring that they go at a REAL speed and don't squander dollars. The lower half gets to go to trade and art schools, which does very well for many of them (Pink Floyd met at one such school, David Bowie attended one too).

I wonder what would happen if they had to 'remove' the bottom-performing 20% of students every year in June, starting at age 8th grade? at the start of ninth grade, you're have (instead of 100 inductees at 8th grade) 80 students. At the start of 10th grade, 64. At the start of 11th, you'd have 52 students.


That would be a silly system. Set a few hard cut off points on grades. And none of that silly letter grading or on a curve. Just keep track of the percentages of the points students get for their exams. Every year drop people who score lower than 60% on the course.

As I have said before, we have a tiered education program in the Netherlands. Everyone follows the same curriculum from age 4 up to age 12 (8 years in one "basis"school) and after that you get to pick your level, with some guidance based on how well you did on a national exam and the opinion of your teacher. And once you pick the tier you feel best about, everyone can go his or her merry way.

This system ensures that people are being taught at their level. No being bored because other people don't understand how to calculate the surface as expressed in cats (20 cats by 25 cats makes the surface 500 square cats) or the physics behind the ideal beer bong (you get to drive at 16, we get to drink beer at 16. You get to drink alcohol at 21, we get to drink hard liquor, smoke weed and drive at 18). I know people who had subject matter in year four that was discussed in my first year. I'd be dead by now if I had to go at that speed.
 
2013-06-26 06:13:58 PM

xynix: RatMaster999: Why not have two schools?  One for the college track kids, and one for trade track kids?  The tards can do their crafts at home.

We have that already.. It's called private school (where my son goes) and public school. My son's school is college prep until 11th grade and part of 12th they start college courses. 100% college attendance rate since 2007. 98% of those grads were accepted into their first choice. Class size is around 10 with 40-50 students per grade level.

Smeggy Smurf: Standardized tests are no different than the professional liscensing tests of today.  You must have a basic minimum of knowledge to pass.  It's not a difficult concept.

Unfortunately when you're only job is to do the bare minimum to get people to pass those tests.. the vast majority are short changed.


Yes, because none of those unwashed masses at "public school" are college-bound, yes?
 
2013-06-26 06:14:01 PM

xynix: You can add 2 years to high school and it wouldn't make a difference. They're not really out to educate anyone. They're there to give standardization tests to ensure than everyone has the absolute bare minimum of what they need to know to pass whatever test of the year they need to pass.

The problem isn't how many years but what type of content is being learned. When you dumb down the curriculum to meet the lowest common student you're essentially wasting the time of the other 75%. As long as they pass those tests though the school leadership can get their bonuses!


That started way before standardized tests. It started woth the democrat theory of inclusion where seperating the gifted from the rest was seen as hurting lil Johnny s self esteem. This led to the inclusion of the mentally handicapped as well.

The problem, as you point out, is this leads to teaching to the lowest learning level. Yet you don't see liberals fighting to allow seperation of intelligence in schools.
 
2013-06-26 06:16:04 PM

JohnAnnArbor: "I've been going to this high school for seven and a half years. I'm no dummy."

[25.media.tumblr.com image 320x240]


Came for this; leaving satisfied.
Now I'm off to drink some of this awesome eggnog my brother makes with lighter fluid...
 
2013-06-26 06:18:26 PM

CruJones: The author should spend his fifth year taking a logic class.   If you have another year to do more activities, etc. for college applications, so does everyone else.

Not to mention we have so much extra room in our schools, and extra teachers, etc.  But I especially like this part:    I would have returned to Japan for another year of studying there


So what you would do with your fifth year is not go to your school?  Genius.


She sounds like the people who didn't listen to the advisors and teachers told them from day 1 of highschool that good grades and test scores aren't the only thing that matters when getting into college.

It reminds me of these two guys that I graduated with. They both applied to Northwestern. They both had the same GPA and one guy's SAT scores were slightly higher than the other guy's. However the guy with the slightly lower SAT score also wrestled and played baseball, was a part of this peer help program at the school, volunteered with some other programs with his church and worked during the summers. The other guy didn't do any extracurriculars, just went to school and hung out with friends. Guess which one was excepted to Northwestern and which one wasn't?

I remember the guy that didn't get into Northwestern pitching a blue fit over it. When anybody would try to explain to him that it was because he didn't have any extracurriculars when other people were bringing the same grades and test scores to the table but they also were loaded with extracurriculars, he would always say that his job was to get good grades and that's it. He just didn't get it.
 
2013-06-26 06:21:20 PM
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that this would provide an additional year for teenage men to bang hot twenty something teachers. Fark, I am disappoint, or something...
 
2013-06-26 06:21:43 PM
I'd say most kids by the age of about 14 know whether they're in the "going to college/university" group or not... barring them changing their minds at the last minute or their parents telling them to go to university or no more allowance. (Sadly it happened to one of my classmates... straight C & D student... she chose Pharmacology and Christmas Graduated™).

I also agree with the posters above that some classes progress way too slowly. Maybe there's a way they can do different levels of certain classes. Such as the difference between, say, Algebra 20/30 and General Math 20/30. (Some of my fellow Canadian farkers will know those classes as Algebra 11/12). Our Alg 20 & 30 went by at a really good pace because the kids that struggled so badly with Alg 10 signed up for General Math 20. Could they make easier variants of certain classes and award the same number of credits? Kids that would struggle in the other class would be less frustrated, their classmates would be less frustrated, the teacher would be less frustrated etc.


Jument: AgentKGB: Does Ontario still have Grade 13?

No, not for many years now.

CSB: I was actually in the final year of Grade 13 in Ontario. I turned out ok. It was nice being able to legally drink the first day of university.


Ah okay. Thank you for the information.
 
2013-06-26 06:23:02 PM
fifth year would be great.  School all year long would be greater.

College isn't for the poor or even the middle class.  It was designed for the rich.  If you're not rich then it can be a full-on waste of time and money.
I'm not talking about 250k a year rich or even 500k a year rich.  College was designed for the children of the rich to meet other children of the rich.
Choate? Rich Harvard? rich UCONN? Trade school MIT? engineers - not necessarily rich

doesn't matter if it's five years or six - If you aren't in the top 20% of wage earners, college might just be a huge waste of time and money.
I teach at the university level - I work hardest and making it NOT a waste of time and money.
 
2013-06-26 06:24:49 PM
FIFTH YEAR?  By that point, you should do one of two things: If they're stupid and lazy, just hand them a McDonald's hat and say "Repeat after me: 'Would you like fries with that?" and leave it there.

If they're smart and just not cut out for academic-style school, train them in the wrenches, welding torches, and other power tools. They'll be owning their own businesses or managing a shift soon enough.
 
2013-06-26 06:25:24 PM

Jument: Goodluckfox: I strongly urge anyone that has a friend or family member starting high school to implore the kid to just skip high school. Seriously. Get the GED and just go to college.

Smartest guy I know was a 16 year old freshman when I was a 25 year old "retread" going back to school (I bailed out of engineering but was much happier in management information systems). Dude works for some sort of government agency that he doesn't talk about much and is into cryptocurrencies.

The first couple of years of college are something that any reasonably bright twelve year old could handle, academically.

It's not just about the level of challenge. Maturity is a major issue. The person in your anecdote is obviously well off normal. You can't design the system for outliers. As I noted above, I did 5 years of high school. It was normal at the time. We basically took first year university classes and grades were critical for admission in university. It was a good experience in hindsight.

Also keep in mind that education is not about learning specific usable skills. A lot of it is learning disciple and simply learning how to learn efficiently. People who say "I never apply my degree, it was pointless" really don't get that. I'm a perfect example: my degree is in computer engineering which back then was 90% electrical engineering and 10% comp sci. I went into software so I've applied maybe 5% of what I learned in my job but I'm very good at what I do. I am good learner: point me at a problem and I will learn the skills necessary to solve it very quickly. Eventually you get to the point where it's not about skills anymore, it's about the ability to almost immediately grasp the larger picture and the agility to be able to dive into any specific problem and solve it.


My concern is the high schools that do not teach this anymore. Much of my public schooling was rote, instead of useful knowledge skills such as these.
 
2013-06-26 06:25:36 PM
First repeal NCLB. No other solution matters until then.

After that, here's a bunch of other pipe dream education solutions I can think of or endorse:
- Open more schools. More schools means more teachers and fewer students per building. Thus smaller class sizes and more attention can be paid per student.

- Year round school. My 10-year old self would be aghast to hear that suggestion, but if it helps retention of knowledge and allows students to advance to higher learning it will be for the greater good in the long run.

- Start school later in the day. One of the worst parts about school was waking up so early when, as a kid and teenager, you need more sleep. School from 10-5 would probably have so much better attention on average.

- Integrate subjects. English and reading give a student the most basic skills to learn anything else. There is history to math and science. Sports (i.e. Gym class) have physical and mathematical underpinnings to them, not to mention history and statistics. When subjects are taught in isolation of each other, they make the world feel disjointed and lacking in context.

- Critical thinking and Logic should be more emphasized from as early as possible and throughout high school. They might not remember when Burr shot Hamilton or know the square root of 4, but if they can reason their way through their day in a rational, logical manner their education will not be in vain.

- More essays, less multiple choice. Essays allow a student to directly communicate their knowledge. Multiple choice is usually a matter of odds. If students are taught to articulate their thoughts in tests more than filling in blanks or circles, then as adults they will be better trained to articulate their thoughts to others on a general basis.
 
2013-06-26 06:27:23 PM

Marcintosh: fifth year would be great.  School all year long would be greater.

College isn't for the poor or even the middle class.  It was designed for the rich.  If you're not rich then it can be a full-on waste of time and money.
I'm not talking about 250k a year rich or even 500k a year rich.  College was designed for the children of the rich to meet other children of the rich.
Choate? Rich Harvard? rich UCONN? Trade school MIT? engineers - not necessarily rich

doesn't matter if it's five years or six - If you aren't in the top 20% of wage earners, college might just be a huge waste of time and money.
I teach at the university level - I work hardest and making it NOT a waste of time and money.


I went to Worcester State. Pretty sure that wasn't founded "for the rich". The Undergrad degree is worth what a HS diploma was a generation ago.
 
2013-06-26 06:27:31 PM
I guess it's brilliant idea. if the end game is to keep kids in school as long as possible, knowing full well there are no jobs for them. yet still feeling slightly guilty for saddling them with debt from college they can never hope to pay, since like I said there are no jobs
I say high school to age 67 whatever grade that might be! what the hell is that 55 grade? I don't i'm a dumbass.
 
2013-06-26 06:28:49 PM

Kuta: The oldest finished at 19 years old with a dual degree in mathematics and linguistics. The middle one just finished with a degree in french and international business. The youngest is just starting there next year and will study dance and party a lot.

Anyway, point is: Take control of your education. It will serve you well.


This is a pretty cool story and all, but are they happy? I can't imagine a home schooled 19 year old graduating college with a math and linguistics degree has enjoyed life very much or can even speak to other people (their peers or elders) very well.
 
2013-06-26 06:29:28 PM

Marcintosh: fifth year would be great.  School all year long would be greater.

College isn't for the poor or even the middle class.  It was designed for the rich.  If you're not rich then it can be a full-on waste of time and money.
I'm not talking about 250k a year rich or even 500k a year rich.  College was designed for the children of the rich to meet other children of the rich.
Choate? Rich Harvard? rich UCONN? Trade school MIT? engineers - not necessarily rich

doesn't matter if it's five years or six - If you aren't in the top 20% of wage earners, college might just be a huge waste of time and money.
I teach at the university level - I work hardest and making it NOT a waste of time and money.


Have you ever seen that study showing that after making $75K/yr, your "happiness level" doesn't really change? You don't need $250K, and college is a way to get a decent salary. Teaching, however...that's something you do because you supposedly love it, and never because you want a good salary. You could take your degree and make more money.
 
2013-06-26 06:30:27 PM

cabbyman: LeroyBourne: Keeve: Keeve: A lot of people take 7 years to graduate.

That would have made a little more sense with the Tommy Boy scene I tried to attach.

No no.  In my head I went right there and was gonna finish it, but no need now.

Yeah, THEY'RE CALLED DOCTORS!

//gah...  sorry... I couldn't hold it in any longer...


It's got a thin candy shell, it'll be fine.
Your head's a thin candy shell.
Yoooour a thin..candy...
Are you talking?
/such a classic movie.
 
2013-06-26 06:37:27 PM

DerAppie: Everyone follows the same curriculum from age 4 up to age 12 (8 years in one "basis"school) and after that you get to pick your level, with some guidance based on how well you did on a national exam and the opinion of your teacher. And once you pick the tier you feel best about, everyone can go his or her merry way.


So we sort of had this at my high school.  You had Honors X and you had X.  You weren't moving any faster, but you were doing harder problems, occasionally diverging onto fun little sidetracks (Think  http://xkcd.com/179/ (but local equivalents.  We didn't get THERE until freshman year of college).  Regular got the first exchange, but we got the second), had an assumed level of competence, no gang problem (too close to Detroit for comfort), and usually got to take and ace the AP tests.  \

So one kid might have gym; European History with some random idiot; Random English classes; normal Physics; and normal English, while the AP kid would have AP Physics with Finn; BC Calculus with Azeez; AP European History with K; Band, Orchestra, and Choir scheduled for the same period (not joking.  We'd send about 4-5 kids a year to college as music or voice majors); and AP English (and before Trimesters, they'd add AP Stats and AP Spanish.  I believe they ended trimesters a few years after I left because of this)
 
2013-06-26 06:39:28 PM

xynix: RatMaster999: Why not have two schools?  One for the college track kids, and one for trade track kids?  The tards can do their crafts at home.

We have that already.. It's called private school (where my son goes) and public school. My son's school is college prep until 11th grade and part of 12th they start college courses. 100% college attendance rate since 2007. 98% of those grads were accepted into their first choice. Class size is around 10 with 40-50 students per grade level.

Smeggy Smurf: Standardized tests are no different than the professional liscensing tests of today.  You must have a basic minimum of knowledge to pass.  It's not a difficult concept.

Unfortunately when you're only job is to do the bare minimum to get people to pass those tests.. the vast majority are short changed.


Then raise the standards.  But that means teachers will have to work and that's against union policy
 
2013-06-26 06:42:09 PM

Marcintosh: fifth year would be great.  School all year long would be greater.

College isn't for the poor or even the middle class.  It was designed for the rich.  If you're not rich then it can be a full-on waste of time and money.
I'm not talking about 250k a year rich or even 500k a year rich.  College was designed for the children of the rich to meet other children of the rich.
Choate? Rich Harvard? rich UCONN? Trade school MIT? engineers - not necessarily rich

doesn't matter if it's five years or six - If you aren't in the top 20% of wage earners, college might just be a huge waste of time and money.
I teach at the university level - I work hardest and making it NOT a waste of time and money.


Have you ever read Neil Stephenson's essay on the Midwestern American College Town?

Yale and Harvard and similar were totally designed for the rich to be rich.  Pretty much every other state college west of the Appalachians were designed to let the middle-class be middle-class.
 
2013-06-26 06:44:42 PM

Smeggy Smurf: Standardized tests are no different than the professional liscensing tests of today.  You must have a basic minimum of knowledge to pass.  It's not a difficult concept.


And so long as the tests measure what we think is important, that's fine.

But throughout human history we've been much more likely to make important the things we know how to measure than to learn to measure the things that are important.
 
2013-06-26 06:49:49 PM

profplump: Smeggy Smurf: Standardized tests are no different than the professional liscensing tests of today.  You must have a basic minimum of knowledge to pass.  It's not a difficult concept.

And so long as the tests measure what we think is important, that's fine.

But throughout human history we've been much more likely to make important the things we know how to measure than to learn to measure the things that are important.


The important stuff is pretty simple.  The fundamentals and practical application of the english language, math, biology, chemistry and physics.  Standardized tests on social studies and history need to be limited to the undeniable facts.  The rest should not be standardized tests.
 
2013-06-26 06:50:11 PM
profplump: But throughout human history we've been much more likely to make important the things we know how to measure than to learn to measure the things that are important.

EVERYONE SHUT UP AND READ THIS.

Thank you.
 
2013-06-26 06:51:02 PM

Smeggy Smurf: profplump: Smeggy Smurf: Standardized tests are no different than the professional liscensing tests of today.  You must have a basic minimum of knowledge to pass.  It's not a difficult concept.

And so long as the tests measure what we think is important, that's fine.

But throughout human history we've been much more likely to make important the things we know how to measure than to learn to measure the things that are important.

The important stuff is pretty simple.  The fundamentals and practical application of the english language, math, biology, chemistry and physics.  Standardized tests on social studies and history need to be limited to the undeniable facts.  The rest should not be standardized tests.


Please list a single historical fact that is undeniable.
 
2013-06-26 06:53:50 PM
The high school my kid is starting in the fall has a trimester program. The classes are more consensed, and for students who work hard enough, part of their junior year and all of their senior year could count towards college credit.

They also have a building trades and shop program for those less inclined towards a 4-year college program. This school system also has no problem having kids repeat a grade if they don't meet their academic standards. Several graduates have done an extra year (or even two) here.

I'm about ready to lobby for shorter summer vacation and later start times though. 7:30am is BS.
 
2013-06-26 06:54:10 PM

Witness99: High school is a waste of time on many levels. Get your GED or state approved high school proficiency exam by 15, then save yourself a load of money working and going to cheap junior/community college the first two years, then transfer to a four year university and graduate. That last part is all your employer will care about. Ta-da!


That approach would impress the shiat out of many employers.
 
2013-06-26 06:54:27 PM

AgentKGB: I'd say most kids by the age of about 14 know whether they're in the "going to college/university" group or not...


That's not true at all. There's such a huge push in high schools to tell everyone to go to college that more than 65% of graduating high school students immediately enroll in a degree-granting program (i.e. associate or bachelors program). But only about 40% of them will eventually earn a degree (and only about 30% a bachelor's). That's not an insignificant difference, and that's among 18-year-olds. I expect at 14-years-old the gap is even wider.

Now that's not to say we couldn't give kids more realistic expectations while still encouraging high educational attainment, but the system we've got today does no such thing.
 
2013-06-26 06:56:09 PM

profplump: But throughout human history we've been much more likely to make important the things we know how to measure than to learn to measure the things that are important.


application.denofgeek.com
 
2013-06-26 06:56:44 PM

rubi_con_man: xynix: The problem isn't how many years but what type of content is being learned. When you dumb down the curriculum to meet the lowest common student you're essentially wasting the time of the other 75%. As long as they pass those tests though the school leadership can get their bonuses!

In many many western school systems they *kick out* the kids at 15, and only the smart 'half' get to take the last three years, ensuring that they go at a REAL speed and don't squander dollars. The lower half gets to go to trade and art schools, which does very well for many of them (Pink Floyd met at one such school, David Bowie attended one too).

I wonder what would happen if they had to 'remove' the bottom-performing 20% of students every year in June, starting at age 8th grade? at the start of ninth grade, you're have (instead of 100 inductees at 8th grade) 80 students. At the start of 10th grade, 64. At the start of 11th, you'd have 52 students.


This is actually a really good idea, but here in the US we have everybody worshiping at the altar of the "Four Year Degree".  How many times do you hear people talking about making college educations available to everyone, how many parents and relatives told you that you can't amount to anything without a college degree.  We've embedded college into the American Dream myth as definitively as a tract home in the suburbs, a dog, and 2.5 children.

And yeah, that is bad.  The world needs ditch diggers, more importantly it needs plumbers, carpenters, machinists, and all sorts of skilled trades that don't require a Batchelor's.  It's made a mockery of what a proper college education used to be, an education that was *not* really needed by most people.  But you'll never get people to accept that learning a trade by apprenticeship or going to a vocational school is somehow not a failure, because it is "less" of an education than the fancy pants college kid with his degree on the wall.  And remember, in america, everyone deserves the best.
 
2013-06-26 06:58:28 PM

Keeve: A lot of people take 7 years to graduate.


CSB

I recently interviewed a candidate who wrote on his resume his start and end dates for his bachelors degree in basketweaving... It took him 7 years.

Then I cross referenced his LinkedIn profile and found out he had failed to mention he went to community college first for 2 years before going to this "university" (both while not working except at one student aid job for about 6 months) and lied about the dates, meaning he spent 8 years on that bachelors after community college.

-Total of 10 years to get a BS in basketweaving from dipshiat "university".

My boss told me his "friend" gave him this resume, so he wanted to interview him anyway. Turns out his "friend" was one of our vendors, and this guy had worked for his "friend" at another company.

When confronted with this my boss's face went white and said, "I didn't know that, he just handed me his resume". -This is known as a conflict of interest.

So we go on to interview the guy. After an hour and a half of this guy rambling on about every thing under the sun *except* his qualifications (and drawing a picture of a PC when asked to describe how to create an LPAR), we were done. I asked my boss what he thought... He thought it went *well*.

I then mentioned to him... "You *do* realize he didn't answer a single technical question I gave him correctly right?"

"Oh."

FFS if you are in a position to hire someone in IT for a management position, please make sure they at least have a BS in Computer Science. No, you *can't* manage technical people if you can't understand the work. -Anyone who thinks they can is a colossal idiot and is going to cost you *mountains* of money and pain.
 
2013-06-26 07:03:38 PM
Do away with "No Student Left Behind" and start teaching the kids that want to learn.  Let the other be stupid somewhere else.  Life is about succeeding and failing.  Teach that.
 
2013-06-26 07:09:45 PM

Honest Bender: profplump: But throughout human history we've been much more likely to make important the things we know how to measure than to learn to measure the things that are important.

[application.denofgeek.com image 480x313]


However, this is rarely achieved owing to man's unique ability to be distracted from spiritual matters by everyday trivia.
 
2013-06-26 07:13:51 PM

CruJones: umad: Ego edo infantia cattus: drop team sports all together

Surely it would be good for our kids to get even less exercise than they do currently. What could possibly go wrong? We should cut P.E. and recess too.

Especially seeing as team sports don't really take away from any class time.   Over my high school career I played 6 different varsity sports.

And I could throw a football over those mountains.


Fist off, I said team sports, not physical education. Secondly, No, they don't take away from class time, they take away the budget. In some schools, they take priority over all other parts of the budget which is absolutely farking stupid.
 
2013-06-26 07:18:44 PM

meintx2001: Do away with "No Student Left Behind" and start teaching the kids that want to learn.  Let the other be stupid somewhere else.  Life is about succeeding and failing.  Teach that.


Hey HEY! Why don't you take your fancy logic and reasonable arguement and...

Yeah, I got nothin'.
 
2013-06-26 07:19:20 PM

Jument: AgentKGB: Does Ontario still have Grade 13?

No, not for many years now.

CSB: I was actually in the final year of Grade 13 in Ontario. I turned out ok. It was nice being able to legally drink the first day of university.


You can bet the farm that in the future some overpaid government "expert" will advise a "Minister of Education" that re-introducing "Grade 12" will be a good thing. And the morons with short memories will vote for them like trained seals.

Ontario has a really bad track record for Education Ministers. One was even a high school dropout. Another was a certified biatch.

And HS kids in Ontario are forced into "community service" to pass high school. Just like convicted criminals. Of course they call it "Volunteering" to make it sound better,
 
2013-06-26 07:24:31 PM

wildcardjack: farking morons. Futurama got it right when they said highschool is basically daycare for young adults.


Came to say this.
Public schools (all grades) are simply publicly funded daycare.  Once you accept this the failures of the system make perfect sense.
 
2013-06-26 07:24:54 PM

Old enough to know better: Just make the fifth year optional. Kinds who don't give a damn can just graduate their 4th year with a basic diploma. While the students who are actually there to learn, or want go on to college can stick around for that fifth year as sort of a 'college prep'.  Of course they'd have to maintain a certain GPA to be allowed to stay.


Yea I'd love seeing more flexibility put into the system. Some kids might be better suited for 2 years of college and 1-2 years of technical training. Maybe others want rigorous college prep in high school.

I want something in between cutting the "dumb" kids in 5th grade and forcing them all into manual labor or technical jobs and dragging everyone along for 12 years whether they benefit from it or not. Realize that it is crazy to expect everyone to learn at the same speed and in the same way, but don't just throw kids under the bus because their parents were busy smoking crack instead of teaching them to read.

Also, encourage kids to skip high school? I studied engineering in college and maybe 10-20% of the freshmen switched majors because the math was too hard or because they didn't have any study skills (or because they found something they liked more.), do you really think all 15 year old kids would do well in college?? I was moody, overly emotional, and extremely shy at that age- I could not have done college even if I was prepared academically. I'm sure some kids can, but encourage all your relative's kids to skip high school?
 
2013-06-26 07:32:37 PM

Gabrielmot: CSB

I recently interviewed a candidate

...

Sadly, it sounds like your story might still end with that dude getting the job. You have to remember that knowing people and also bullshiatting people are two of the best ways to get hired.
 
2013-06-26 07:33:13 PM

Smeggy Smurf: The fundamentals and practical application of the english language, math, biology, chemistry and physics.


It's easy to say the standard is "mastery of the fundamentals of language" but I suspect you'd have a much harder time devising a reliable measurement of that standard.

What constitutes "fundamentals"? Or "mastery"? Are you sure those aspects you've named are the ones that are and will continue to be important in terms of say, effective communication or vocational suitability? Are we measuring mastery in reading, speaking, listening, or writing? Are you sure your test can be consistently scored by different graders? Are you sure your test doesn't make assumptions about culture or dialect or any of 100 other things that might influence the scores independently of the intended measurement?

If you've really got a method to resolve those sorts of issues systematically there are a lot of people who would like to subscribe to your newsletter -- the inability to quickly and accurately measure things like this is a huge problem in many areas from education to hiring to elections, and even incremental improvements over the current process would be very useful.
 
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