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(Ars Technica)   Leakers "should be shot." Is this a quote from A) General Keith Alexander of the NSA, B) President Barack Obama, or C) Edward J. Snowden?   (arstechnica.com) divider line 125
    More: Ironic, Obama, domestic spying, uhhh, consent of the governed, political corruption  
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2530 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Jun 2013 at 6:17 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-26 02:50:18 PM  
Context people.  He was talking about fans of Hatsune Miku who bought those leek lights.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 02:56:52 PM  
Well, that was before he knew he could become an instant hero by being a leaker.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 03:11:22 PM  
Holy shiat.  Now that I read the whole thing I wonder if the people who thought he was a hero will stand by their mistake or declare AT part of the conspiracy to smear Snowden.?

This should be good.
 
2013-06-26 03:15:00 PM  
Shot in the balls, submitter.  That's the best part.
 
2013-06-26 03:16:10 PM  
"I said take him out and shoot him... can't you hear?"
 
2013-06-26 03:25:26 PM  
Welll they totally convinced me that they have a chat log from someone that hates leakers.

Whose chat log it is is anyone's guess.
 
2013-06-26 03:28:59 PM  

vpb: Holy shiat.  Now that I read the whole thing I wonder if the people who thought he was a hero will stand by their mistake or declare AT part of the conspiracy to smear Snowden.?


That observation is valid only if you believe that people should not change their viewpoint in light of fresh information.
 
2013-06-26 03:30:19 PM  
And it's hardly a perfect parallel; Snowden was upset about leaks over US covert operations in Iran, which is different from the domestic spying and offensive cyberwar programs he felt compelled to make public.

Which is a very important point.
 
2013-06-26 03:31:09 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: vpb: Holy shiat.  Now that I read the whole thing I wonder if the people who thought he was a hero will stand by their mistake or declare AT part of the conspiracy to smear Snowden.?

That observation is valid only if you believe that people should not change their viewpoint in light of fresh information.


Or that the American people are enemies of the state on the same level as Iranians who would kill a spy.
 
2013-06-26 03:32:50 PM  

Aarontology: Marcus Aurelius: vpb: Holy shiat.  Now that I read the whole thing I wonder if the people who thought he was a hero will stand by their mistake or declare AT part of the conspiracy to smear Snowden.?

That observation is valid only if you believe that people should not change their viewpoint in light of fresh information.

Or that the American people are enemies of the state on the same level as Iranians who would kill a spy.


That's too much context for some people's brains to handle.  It's much simpler if you see it in strict black and white terms.
 
2013-06-26 03:38:17 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: That's too much context for some people's brains to handle. It's much simpler if you see it in strict black and white terms.


Indeed. Perhaps we should let the Bushies here continue with their "You're with us or the terrorists" stuff.
 
2013-06-26 03:49:38 PM  
< User21>I'm appointing ur mom to run my penis
< User21>plus she can be secretary of my balls
 
2013-06-26 03:53:16 PM  

RussianPooper: < User21>I'm appointing ur mom to run my penis
< User21>plus she can be secretary of my balls


<User21>And I'm voting your sister comptroller of Titty City
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 03:56:35 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: That observation is valid only if you believe that people should not change their viewpoint in light of fresh information.

Or that the American people are enemies of the state on the same level as Iranians who would kill a spy.

That's too much context for some people's brains to handle.  It's much simpler if you see it in strict black and white terms.


Well, that's one way to save face I guess.

I am so glad I that someone who can't grasp the difference between warrant-less wiretapping and legal gathering of information with a warrant can tell me how to avoid thinking in strict black and white terms.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 04:01:09 PM  

Aarontology: Indeed. Perhaps we should let the Bushies here continue with their "You're with us or the terrorists" stuff.


Aw, don't get your feelings hurt.

I want to hear your "either you're with us or you are just like Bush and the Stasi all rolled into one" wisdom.
 
2013-06-26 04:16:08 PM  

vpb: Aarontology: Indeed. Perhaps we should let the Bushies here continue with their "You're with us or the terrorists" stuff.

Aw, don't get your feelings hurt.

I want to hear your "either you're with us or you are just like Bush and the Stasi all rolled into one" wisdom.


Nah, I'd rather hear another one of your Bushie excuses (remember. The Patriot Act made everything he did nice and legal) and commentary about how I'm a terrorist supporting traitor for opposing this program.

Just like you guys did ten years ago when you went to war with a nation that didn't attack us, send hundreds of people to Gitmo, and passed the Patriot Act.
 
2013-06-26 04:18:05 PM  
Oh, and all that torture. Nice and legal, just like the NSA stuff.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 05:01:42 PM  
Aarontology:

Nah, I'd rather hear another one of your Bushie excuses (remember. The Patriot Act made everything he did nice and legal) and commentary about how I'm a terrorist supporting traitor for opposing this program.

Just like you guys did ten years ago when you went to war with a nation that didn't attack us, send hundreds of people to Gitmo, and passed the Patriot Act.


Really?  In my world that was the Bush and the GOP, not Obama and the Dems.

You anarchists get things confused.  Or is this one of those you're with us or with Dubya things?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 05:05:42 PM  

Aarontology: Oh, and all that torture. Nice and legal, just like the NSA stuff.


Really, I don't recall any law or court authorizing that. What was the name of the case, or the bill?

I suppose you're going to tell me that the Congress and the Courts authorized Hitler next.  You might as well go full Godwin if you are going to talk crazy talk.
 
2013-06-26 05:09:08 PM  
In 4 years I haven't changed my mind about anything. Who could possibly change their stance on an issue in just 4 short years? Absolutely ridicules! This guy needs to be shot in the balls for acting like he changed his mind after discovering reality ran much deeper than he thought.
 
2013-06-26 05:11:42 PM  
They supply no proof at all that's Snowden, but if it is, it totally bolsters the theory that he may be working for David Petraeus right now.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 05:18:05 PM  

xynix: In 4 years I haven't changed my mind about anything. Who could possibly change their stance on an issue in just 4 short years? Absolutely ridicules! This guy needs to be shot in the balls for acting like he changed his mind after discovering reality ran much deeper than he thought.


What makes you think he has?  Wildly contradictory opinions are pretty much normal for wing nuts.

People like to project their own beliefs and motives on guys like this, but I'll wait and see before I decide what to think of him.

If I had to take a guess I would say he was not too tightly wrapped rather than being a hero or traitor.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 05:18:43 PM  

Triumph: They supply no proof at all that's Snowden, but if it is, it totally bolsters the theory that he may be working for David Petraeus right now.


Ars Technica is part of the conspiracy.
 
2013-06-26 05:20:59 PM  

Triumph: They supply no proof at all that's Snowden


Didn't see the earlier pages (why link to page 3?). But still, they should show the photos and profile stuff.
 
2013-06-26 05:38:33 PM  

vpb: What makes you think he has?  Wildly contradictory opinions are pretty much normal for wing nuts.


Environment I suppose can have a serious effect on a persons opinions. I moved to Ireland in 1999 and was a pretty hard core conservative. I had never left the country before and Rush Limbaugh was the guy I thought had all the answers. I was also pretty young.. After living in Europe for 5 years and exploring all it had to offer my opinions did an almost complete 180. The people I was surrounded by, the cultures I took in, the experience of being with a vastly different group of people. I no longer lived in an echo chamber.

Maybe that's what happened here. That's why I'm so open minded about this guy. We all have a history and me voting for GWB with fire and angst is not at all the person I am today.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 06:10:20 PM  
xynix:

Environment I suppose can have a serious effect on a persons opinions. I moved to Ireland in 1999 and was a pretty hard core conservative. I had never left the country before and Rush Limbaugh was the guy I thought had all the answers. I was also pretty young.. After living in Europe for 5 years and exploring all it had to offer my opinions did an almost complete 180. The people I was surrounded by, the cultures I took in, the experience of being with a vastly different group of people. I no longer lived in an echo chamber.

Maybe that's what happened here. That's why I'm so open minded about this guy. We all have a history and me voting for GWB with fire and angst is not at all the person I am today.


Yes, it MAY be.  But I will keep an open mind until I see some hard evidence.  I don't know if he is a traitor or not, but nothing he has released so far that makes him a hero.

And even if he has shifted from an extreme right wing nut to an extreme left wing nut that wouldn't make him a hero either.

If he actually releases evidence of wrongdoing then I will re-consider.
 
2013-06-26 06:11:16 PM  
This story has become all about Snowden, which suits the powers that be, I guess. It shouldn't really be about him, rather the information he revealed.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 06:19:45 PM  

coco ebert: This story has become all about Snowden, which suits the powers that be, I guess. It shouldn't really be about him, rather the information he revealed.


It's like Zimmerman and Martin.  No one cares about what happened, they are symbols for the right and left.  People project their own values on them even though no one knows all the facts yet.
 
2013-06-26 06:23:26 PM  
Totallt the same thing, Stubby, assuming you toss out any semblance of context or textual understanding coupled with critical thinking skills and an ounce of reasoning abilities.

Which you clearly have done;

Kill yourself.
 
2013-06-26 06:26:23 PM  
There's ironic. Then there's Hipster Ironic.

www.gannett-cdn.com
 
2013-06-26 06:27:40 PM  

vpb: coco ebert: This story has become all about Snowden, which suits the powers that be, I guess. It shouldn't really be about him, rather the information he revealed.

It's like Zimmerman and Martin.  No one cares about what happened, they are symbols for the right and left.  People project their own values on them even though no one knows all the facts yet.


Well, a person was killed in that case. I think it makes sense to focus on the victim and the perpetrator but in this case Snowden really is just the messenger.
 
2013-06-26 06:28:35 PM  
I still think he's kind of a self-important asshole who didn't have to do this.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 06:34:25 PM  
coco ebert:
It's like Zimmerman and Martin.  No one cares about what happened, they are symbols for the right and left.  People project their own values on them even though no one knows all the facts yet.

Well, a person was killed in that case. I think it makes sense to focus on the victim and the perpetrator but in this case Snowden really is just the messenger.


It won't matter.  Letting us know that the NSA listens in on the calls made to or from suspected terrorists isn't much of a message.

"Evil traitor helps terrorists" or "hero discovers that NSA geeks are fapping to your cat pictures" makes a better story.
 
2013-06-26 06:36:37 PM  
This indicates he's rather impetuous and doesn't put a lot of thought into his opinions.  That's kind of a big swing in an opinion in a few years.  And this guy is 30 ... he's not some kid finding himself anymore.  Just another attention whore being a douchebag.
 
2013-06-26 06:43:25 PM  
Hmmm...I get the feeling that User 19 doesn't give a fark.
 
2013-06-26 06:45:05 PM  

vpb: Really, I don't recall any law or court authorizing that. What was the name of the case, or the bill?


The Torture Memos drafted by the OLC using the powers granted to the Executive Branch under the Patriot Act. The Special Interrogation Plans signed by Donald Rumsfeld using the previously mentioned Patriot Act authority regarding torture of Gitmo detainees.

Thankfully, President Obama issued an executive order terminating the torture programs. He also said that the perpetrators of these acts couldn't be prosecuted as they were legal. Also thankfully, somebody was brave enough to leak information and pictures the hideous human rights abuses of Abu Ghraib, as well. Otherwise, we may have never found out about the disgusting measures undertaken to fight terrorism.

The programs were legal, and they were justified in the name of "national security" in the war on terror. Much like the NSA spying on American citizens has been justified
 
2013-06-26 06:47:05 PM  

spiderpaz: That's kind of a big swing in an opinion in a few years.


RON PAUL is a hell of a drug.
 
2013-06-26 06:49:36 PM  

vpb: Really? In my world that was the Bush and the GOP, not Obama and the Dems.


Im sorry. Did they note vote to authorize the Patriot Act along side the Republicans? I seem to recall Feingold being the sole senator among his Democratic colleagues to vote against it in the Senate.

I also recall President Obama resigning the Patriot Act a couple of years ago.
 
2013-06-26 06:53:01 PM  
Edward J. Snowden (R) Leaker

This guy has got to be a Republican or an "Independent" that votes Republican every election. We just have to wait this out. Soon enough they'll find ties to a white supremacy group and how he was outraged they elected a bla to be president.
 
2013-06-26 06:58:34 PM  
Just remember this entire issue has never been about leaks.  It's about unauthorized leaks.  The government leaks information to journalists all of the time.  But those are leaks of information the government wants out and hopes it can control the message.
 
2013-06-26 07:03:14 PM  

vpb: Holy shiat.  Now that I read the whole thing I wonder if the people who thought he was a hero will stand by their mistake or declare AT part of the conspiracy to smear Snowden.?

This should be good.


You realize that being heroic and being kind of an asshole are in no way mutually exclusive, right?

Aarontology: I also recall President Obama resigning the Patriot Act a couple of years ago.


Well, the extension that Obama advocated and signed was only for part of PATRIOT, technically.  Albeit, that part included roving, warrantless wiretaps, warrantless "lone wolf" surveillance, business record seizure, indefinite detention... so, pretty much all the bad parts.
 
2013-06-26 07:16:38 PM  
Dammit! For the first time in my long opinionated life, I just can't make up my mind about this. I don't want Big Brother watching me, but I absolutely want Big Brother to use tech to track down terrorists. I don't want spies working for NSA contractors, but I want to know if the NSA has overstepped their authority. I guess I'm going to sit this one out. Let history decide.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 07:22:16 PM  
Aarontology:

The Torture Memos drafted by the OLC using the powers granted to the Executive Branch under the Patriot Act. The Special Interrogation Plans signed by Donald Rumsfeld using the previously mentioned Patriot Act authority regarding torture of Gitmo detainees.

Thankfully, President Obama issued an executive order terminating the torture programs. He also said that the perpetrators of these acts couldn't be prosecuted as they were legal. Also thankfully, somebody was brave enough to leak information and pictures the hideous human rights abuses of Abu Ghraib, as well. Otherwise, we may have never found out about the disgusting measures undertaken to fight terrorism.

The programs were legal, and they were justified in the name of "national security" in the war on terror. Much like the NSA spying on American citizens has been justified


No, there is nothing in the Patriot Act or any law that authorizes torture.  It may suck but it doesn't suck that much.  No court has ever rules that torture is legal.  Bush did what he did totally outside of the system of checks and balances that the constitution establishes.

If you aren't just pulling dishonest claims out of your ass, let's see a reference to a specific section of law or case law from a federal court.
 
2013-06-26 07:26:22 PM  

Granny_Panties: Edward J. Snowden (R) Leaker

This guy has got to be a Republican or an "Independent" that votes Republican every election. .


That never occurred to me, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 07:27:15 PM  

Aarontology: vpb: Really? In my world that was the Bush and the GOP, not Obama and the Dems.

Im sorry. Did they note vote to authorize the Patriot Act along side the Republicans? I seem to recall Feingold being the sole senator among his Democratic colleagues to vote against it in the Senate.

I also recall President Obama resigning the Patriot Act a couple of years ago.


Well that explains a lot.  You think the Patriot Act authorized the invasion of Iraq and torture.

There are some controversial parts, but none like that.  You didn't even look it up on Wikipedia before you decided all this did you?
 
2013-06-26 07:34:15 PM  

vpb: No, there is nothing in the Patriot Act or any law that authorizes torture. It may suck but it doesn't suck that much. No court has ever rules that torture is legal. Bush did what he did totally outside of the system of checks and balances that the constitution establishes.


Which is what he did with warrantless wiretapping, too.  Now, as bad people may feel the FISA court is, and as flawed as the laws and accepted rules of FISA-regulated domestic surveillance are, at least they are governed by law.  Arguably, Obama could and should scale back these programs from the legally accepted maximum, but at least he has accepted that there are laws that limit them.

There's a world of difference between the executive that accepts no limits, and an executive that accepts that a body of law constrains his powers.   It seems that by any reasonable interpretation, the scope of these programs has absolutely been reduced from where they were under Bush, even if the sheer amount of data gathering has likely increased, due to increased data traffic and NSA capability.
 
2013-06-26 07:49:32 PM  
Assuming it is him, it wouldn't be unprecedented. After 2008-2009, there has been a noticeable shift toward explicit anti-State attitudes among those sort of right-wingers. One unfortunate effect of this has been a growth in the execrable "anarcho-capitalists". In fact I can't actually think of a positive aspect of this trend. It seems to me that most of these guys (and I do mean "guys"; I haven't seen one yet who's female) think that getting rid of the government would be a great way to protect their white privilege, although of course they don't see it that way.


Aarontology
Thankfully, President Obama issued an executive order terminating the torture programs.

Which is why this isn't happening
 
2013-06-26 07:56:56 PM  

Granny_Panties: Edward J. Snowden (R) Leaker

This guy has got to be a Republican or an "Independent" that votes Republican every election. We just have to wait this out. Soon enough they'll find ties to a white supremacy group and how he was outraged they elected a bla to be president.


Probably was, must libertarian leaning people vote republican, especially if they are big supporters of the military...which Snowden was. But there you go making this a right vs left issue. Disagree all you want with libertarian economic policy but Rand Paul has stood up for civil rights more than any other person in the Senate.

The assumption that Voting Republican = Racist is incredibly childish and reflects poorly on your intelligence.

Slutter McGee
 
2013-06-26 07:58:37 PM  

Slutter McGee: The assumption that Voting Republican = Racist is incredibly childish and reflects poorly on your intelligence.


Not racist, but #1 with racists.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-26 08:12:40 PM  
Skleenar:
Which is what he did with warrantless wiretapping, too.  Now, as bad people may feel the FISA court is, and as flawed as the laws and accepted rules of FISA-regulated domestic surveillance are, at least they are governed by law.  Arguably, Obama could and should scale back these programs from the legally accepted maximum, but at least he has accepted that there are laws that limit them.

There's a world of difference between the executive that accepts no limits, and an executive that accepts that a body of law constrains his powers.   It seems that by any reasonable interpretation, the scope of these programs has absolutely been reduced from where they were under Bush, even if the sheer amount of data gathering has likely increased, due to increased data traffic and NSA capability.


That's precisely my point.  It's the rule of law that matters.  The system of checks and balances that the Constitution sets up is what protects our rights.

It may not be perfect, but that's more a matter of people electing poor representatives.
 
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