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(Yahoo)   National poll reflects that the 20-week-ban bill may actually be a victory for Republicans - who have succeeded in bringing the abortion debate away from the difficult rape-and-incest exceptions in which Democrats insist on exclusively framing it   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 275
    More: Followup, Republican, Democrats, abortion rights, Late termination of pregnancy, Democratic Coalition, Marsha Blackburn, House Republicans, two-thirds vote  
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1272 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Jun 2013 at 12:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-26 12:40:58 PM  
Is it me, or has Yahoo become a right wing mouthpiece website in the last year? This is just more evidence of that.
 
2013-06-26 12:45:23 PM  

vernonFL: Is it me, or has Yahoo become a right wing mouthpiece website in the last year? This is just more evidence of that.


Pretty much everywhere has. Even Fark has that farking Newsmax sidebar now.

Right-wing trash have the money and own the corporate outlets that manufacture news.
 
2013-06-26 12:45:25 PM  
I really don't like it when articles about polls don't show the actual question that was asked.
 
2013-06-26 12:45:38 PM  
The issue isn't really the 20-week ban. Only a tiny percentage of abortions are performed after 20 weeks, and they're almost all for medical reasons.

The issue is the very strict requirements for abortion clinics. They are so strict that all but 4 or 5 clinics in Texas would have been shut down. That's the issue.
 
2013-06-26 12:46:30 PM  
This implies that the 20 week ban was the only thing the filibuster was about and ignores the larger context of the SB5.
 
2013-06-26 12:47:44 PM  

Rascal King: This implies that the 20 week ban was the only thing the filibuster was about and ignores the larger context of the SB5.


Very deliberate framing on the part of the right. They can't win this - and by "win" I mean "deprive women of basic human rights" - by being honest about it.
 
2013-06-26 12:48:59 PM  
IF you are against abortion, go do a Google Image search for "harlequin baby"

Then tell me you're against all abortion.

/NEVER do a GIS for "harlequin baby."
 
2013-06-26 12:49:19 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: The issue isn't really the 20-week ban. Only a tiny percentage of abortions are performed after 20 weeks, and they're almost all for medical reasons.

The issue is the very strict requirements for abortion clinics. They are so strict that all but 4 or 5 clinics in Texas would have been shut down. That's the issue.


I found the Kansas version of that a few years back to be especially douchy.  They mandated the size of the janitors closets, and set minimum and maximum air temperature requirements for the building.

Setting the minimum temperature of an exam room as higher than the maximum of the hallway on the other side of a door was an inspired piece of assholearly by someone.
 
2013-06-26 12:51:29 PM  

vernonFL: IF you are against abortion, go do a Google Image search for "harlequin baby"

Then tell me you're against all abortion.

/NEVER do a GIS for "harlequin baby."


Harlequin babies and anencephalic lumps are gifts from god and furthermore
 
2013-06-26 12:51:41 PM  

vernonFL: IF you are against abortion, go do a Google Image search for "harlequin baby"

Then tell me you're against all abortion.

/NEVER do a GIS for "harlequin baby."


Is that like doing a GIS for anencephaly?

/NEVER do a GIS for 'anencephaly'.
The 'baby' qualifier is unnecessary since non-baby anencephaly is basically impossible.
 
2013-06-26 12:51:58 PM  
Oh, trollmitter, you're good.
 
2013-06-26 12:52:38 PM  
Remember when the trolling was mostly in the threads, rather than the headlines? I miss that.
 
2013-06-26 12:52:48 PM  
Republicans don't like to mix rape and abortion.

They like their rape pure and legitimate.
 
2013-06-26 12:53:32 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: The issue isn't really the 20-week ban. Only a tiny percentage of abortions are performed after 20 weeks, and they're almost all for medical reasons.

The issue is the very strict requirements for abortion clinics. They are so strict that all but 4 or 5 clinics in Texas would have been shut down. That's the issue.


This.

/pro-choice, but abortions should be safe, legal, and rare
//20 weeks is starting to push when a fetus is viable outside the womb
 
2013-06-26 12:54:16 PM  

Karac: vernonFL: IF you are against abortion, go do a Google Image search for "harlequin baby"

Then tell me you're against all abortion.

/NEVER do a GIS for "harlequin baby."

Is that like doing a GIS for anencephaly?

/NEVER do a GIS for 'anencephaly'.
The 'baby' qualifier is unnecessary since non-baby anencephaly is basically impossible.


But you have to put baby in there, or else spend all day on batman sites.
 
2013-06-26 12:54:19 PM  
What I find interesting is that when SB5 is talked about by right-wingers, they only bring up the 20+ week abortion topic.  The primary problem with the bill is how it goes about closing abortion services across the state with provisions like requiring that all abortion clinics are surgical centers.  And most registered voters in Texas think we're wasting time with this nonsense...

http://gqrr.com/images/documents/061913_TX_ACLU__FQ_public.pdf
 
2013-06-26 12:54:23 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Even Fark has that farking Newsmax sidebar now.


Not even having ABP on Firefox prevents that :(
 
2013-06-26 12:55:08 PM  

Aarontology: I really don't like it when articles about polls don't show the actual question that was asked.


cdn-media.nationaljournal.com
 
2013-06-26 12:55:09 PM  
FTA:


"Survey respondents were told that the legislation included exceptions in cases of rape and incest that were reported to authorities. They were also told supporters say the bill was necessary because a fetus can feel pain at that point in pregnancy and that opponents say the measure undermines abortion rights granted by the Supreme Court in 1973."

Yep, a totally unbiased poll, whose validity is without question.

Also, a lot of women do not (Hell, CANNOT) report rape, and I'm sure a whole hell of a bunch do not report incest. And these women will be forced to carry these children to term.
 
2013-06-26 12:55:10 PM  
Dear Social Conservatives,

Roe V Wade was 40 years ago.  It's over. Get past it. Move on.

Does your political platform have the word "abortion" anywhere in it? Are you proposing a bill or statute that has the word "abortion" anywhere in it?  Drop it.
 
2013-06-26 12:55:19 PM  

Epoch_Zero: Karac: vernonFL: IF you are against abortion, go do a Google Image search for "harlequin baby"

Then tell me you're against all abortion.

/NEVER do a GIS for "harlequin baby."

Is that like doing a GIS for anencephaly?

/NEVER do a GIS for 'anencephaly'.
The 'baby' qualifier is unnecessary since non-baby anencephaly is basically impossible.

But you have to put baby in there, or else spend all day on batman sites.


If the choice is "harlequin baby pictures" or "spend all day looking at pictures of Harley", I think the choice is clear.
 
2013-06-26 12:57:21 PM  

Jairzinho: A Dark Evil Omen: Even Fark has that farking Newsmax sidebar now.

Not even having ABP on Firefox prevents that :(


Sounds like a job for Greasemonkey. After they put that up I became tempted to install an ad blocker just for Fark, because fark that shiat.
 
2013-06-26 12:58:25 PM  
"In the emergency room they have what's called rape kits, where a woman can get cleaned out."

4b075e6d1dc6d4754676-77025ec4716c7dabdb361d1ec7e41893.r43.cf3.rackcdn.com
 
2013-06-26 12:59:47 PM  

enry: Mike Chewbacca: The issue isn't really the 20-week ban. Only a tiny percentage of abortions are performed after 20 weeks, and they're almost all for medical reasons.

The issue is the very strict requirements for abortion clinics. They are so strict that all but 4 or 5 clinics in Texas would have been shut down. That's the issue.

This.

/pro-choice, but abortions should be safe, legal, and rare
//20 weeks is starting to push when a fetus is viable outside the womb


Aren't the majority of them when there is something seriously wrong with the fetus, or the fetus is dying/dead and taking the mother with it??

If we had universal healthcare, perhaps the stress and worry about how to pay for the NICU or a lifetime of medical troubles for a child might not play a part in deciding whether or not to carry to term?

//Freely available birth control would do more to lower abortion rates than banning it after 20 weeks.
 
2013-06-26 12:59:54 PM  
This is so damn stupid. The number of women who get an abortion after 20 weeks accounts for something like 1% of all abortions, and when asked why they get them they mostly didnt know they were pregnant, found a horrible deformity, or their life changed to the point that a child was not feasible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy

This is only only only only only a way to chip away at women's rights to comprehensive healthcare.
 
2013-06-26 01:00:07 PM  

vernonFL: IF you are against abortion, go do a Google Image search for "harlequin baby"

Then tell me you're against all abortion.

/NEVER do a GIS for "harlequin baby."


but but three have survived a couple decades, heroically struggling through a lifetime of absolute hell and because they made it, we should absolutely take the heartwrenching decision away from other families who may not understand how difficult it has been for these people to create a life for themselves.  It's what Jesus would do.

To be fair, ichthyosis was discussed in 2011 as severe and chronic, but increasingly non-fatal.  However, like other severe and chronic illnesses, having a child with one is still going to be a massive undertaking for any family.
 
2013-06-26 01:01:33 PM  
Funniest headline the queue huh?
 
2013-06-26 01:02:54 PM  
Maybe Republicans need to read their bibles. It has a potion to be used in church in front of the priest, to cause a miscarriage.
mainly used when you believe your wife is a whore and pregnant with someone else's fetus.

/Church approved abortions are part of the republicans way of life
//So is treating your wife as a slave as you purchased her from her father.
///Rape is also in the bible as a victory
////So is incest.
//So is brutally murdering people for minor crimes/debt.
 
2013-06-26 01:03:53 PM  
You know, if we hook a generator up to the Republican spin machine we could solve the worlds energy problems.
 
2013-06-26 01:04:11 PM  

vernonFL: IF you are against abortion, go do a Google Image search for "harlequin baby"

Then tell me you're against all abortion.

/NEVER do a GIS for "harlequin baby."


OMG I wish I had just taken your word for it. I am not easily disgusted but...OMG I feel like I need a pint of bourbon to forget that.
 
2013-06-26 01:04:24 PM  
Gun suicide is a bigger killer than gun homicide

This one is always a 'What?' moment for me.

It does not matter one whit how somebody committed suicide. In the complete and total absence of ready access to firearms, people would just use another method.
 
2013-06-26 01:04:44 PM  

enry: //20 weeks is starting to push when a fetus is viable outside the womb


20 weeks can be about the time you find out that your baby will never be viable.   That's about when you find out the baby has no lungs, or kidneys, or hydrocephalus has swollen his brain so large it's a risk for the mother to deliver the baby.

Yeah, 20 weeks.  A great time to start telling women they are required to deliver a baby.  Even if she and the doctors know it will suffer and die in her arms.
 
2013-06-26 01:05:01 PM  

meat0918: //Freely available birth control would do more to lower abortion rates than banning it after 20 weeks.


It's not about lowering abortion rates.  It's about punishing women for having sex.
 
2013-06-26 01:05:09 PM  
So long as men are allowed to escape all physical and emotional burdens associated with pregnancy at any point for any reason simply by paying someone some money, women should have the same option.
 
2013-06-26 01:05:13 PM  

meat0918: enry: Mike Chewbacca: The issue isn't really the 20-week ban. Only a tiny percentage of abortions are performed after 20 weeks, and they're almost all for medical reasons.

The issue is the very strict requirements for abortion clinics. They are so strict that all but 4 or 5 clinics in Texas would have been shut down. That's the issue.

This.

/pro-choice, but abortions should be safe, legal, and rare
//20 weeks is starting to push when a fetus is viable outside the womb

Aren't the majority of them when there is something seriously wrong with the fetus, or the fetus is dying/dead and taking the mother with it??


Don't know the stats offhand, but that should be the case.  In my mind, there should be a push for live birth and giving the baby up for adoption after 20 weeks and all is healthy.  Not a requirement though, just the doctor being able to offer alternatives to abortion.  I know plenty of couples who can't have kids of their own who would love to raise a child (and many have).

If we had universal healthcare, perhaps the stress and worry about how to pay for the NICU or a lifetime of medical troubles for a child might not play a part in deciding whether or not to carry to term?

//Freely available birth control would do more to lower abortion rates than banning it after 20 weeks.


YES, which makes it strange why the GOP is so anti-birth control.
 
2013-06-26 01:05:27 PM  

Ambivalence: vernonFL: IF you are against abortion, go do a Google Image search for "harlequin baby"

Then tell me you're against all abortion.

/NEVER do a GIS for "harlequin baby."

OMG I wish I had just taken your word for it. I am not easily disgusted but...OMG I feel like I need a pint of bourbon to forget that.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-26 01:05:57 PM  

meat0918: Aren't the majority of them when there is something seriously wrong with the fetus, or the fetus is dying/dead and taking the mother with it??


Yep.  Generally a woman who has chosen to carry a baby for 5 months straight actually wants the things.
 
2013-06-26 01:06:25 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: The issue isn't really the 20-week ban. Only a tiny percentage of abortions are performed after 20 weeks, and they're almost all for medical reasons.

The issue is the very strict requirements for abortion clinics. They are so strict that all but 4 or 5 clinics in Texas would have been shut down. That's the issue.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2013-06-26 01:06:54 PM  

enry: YES, which makes it strange why the GOP is so anti-birth control.


Could it be that it's actually just about giving the wealthy and powerful more and more control over peoples' lives, just like everything else rightists do? HMM.
 
2013-06-26 01:07:06 PM  
I don't have a dog in this fight.  I'm pro choice, but I don't support late term abortion, once the child would feasibly be viable if an emergency c-section were performed.  So obviously there's some room in MY "gray area" there.

Realistically, a reasonably responsible, sexually active person is going to know they're pregnant in the first 8 weeks.  If you don't know, it's because you're being negligent and lazy.  If you can't make up your mind which way to go in 4 months, I have trouble finding sympathy for you.  I don't want to punish anyone for having sex ... the more sex being had the better, and preventing unwanted children is always good.  But once it enters that gray area, I stop caring about your problems because you really went out of your way to be a dumbass.

My only real objection to this law would be that it would start a slipper slope.  I know the "slipper slope" is like THE logical fallacy for making arguments, but in this case I think it warrants some concern because it's an attempt to make a clear line between black and white areas when the entire area is really gray for most people.
 
2013-06-26 01:07:43 PM  

sheep snorter: Maybe Republicans need to read their bibles. It has a potion to be used in church in front of the priest, to cause a miscarriage.


nah, it doesn't.
 
2013-06-26 01:08:44 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: enry: YES, which makes it strange why the GOP is so anti-birth control.

Could it be that it's actually just about giving the wealthy and powerful more and more control over peoples' lives, just like everything else rightists do? HMM.


no
 
2013-06-26 01:08:45 PM  

pivazena: This is so damn stupid. The number of women who get an abortion after 20 weeks accounts for something like 1% of all abortions, and when asked why they get them they mostly didnt know they were pregnant, found a horrible deformity, or their life changed to the point that a child was not feasible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy

This is only only only only only a way to chip away at women's rights to comprehensive healthcare.


Philip J. Fry: enry: //20 weeks is starting to push when a fetus is viable outside the womb

20 weeks can be about the time you find out that your baby will never be viable.   That's about when you find out the baby has no lungs, or kidneys, or hydrocephalus has swollen his brain so large it's a risk for the mother to deliver the baby.

Yeah, 20 weeks.  A great time to start telling women they are required to deliver a baby.  Even if she and the doctors know it will suffer and die in her arms.


This is why I'll probably never support a ban of any kind on abortion. It leaves no leeway for random awfulness that life can throw your way. Supporters of such legislation have no concept of sympathy.
 
2013-06-26 01:09:13 PM  

spiderpaz: I don't have a dog in this fight.  I'm pro choice, but I don't support late term abortion, once the child would feasibly be viable if an emergency c-section were performed.  So obviously there's some room in MY "gray area" there.


1) Hospital viability is about 25 weeks.

2) The late-term restrictions were not the big problem here, it was the onerous requirements that would make almost every women's clinic in the entire state of Texas have to close its doors.
 
2013-06-26 01:09:16 PM  

Heraclitus: You know, if we hook a generator up to the Republican spin machine we could solve the worlds energy problems.


Or drain the universe of entropy, vanishing into a white hot singularity of perfect order.
 
2013-06-26 01:09:40 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: "In the emergency room they have what's called rape kits, where a woman can get cleaned out."

[4b075e6d1dc6d4754676-77025ec4716c7dabdb361d1ec7e41893.r43.cf3.rackcd n .com image 639x360]


Aaaaand the office is now looking at the guy who spontaneously burst into tear-jerking laughter. I love you.
 
2013-06-26 01:10:13 PM  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy



Sorry it didn't link before. For women who were beyond 16 weeks (16-20 weeks account for 4.8 % of abortions, 20+ is around 1.5%). So we don't know how the reasoning shifts given the extra month of gestation, but:

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other
 
2013-06-26 01:10:54 PM  
Of course, even the Republicans had to sneak in funding for Planned Parenthood after cutting it two years ago due to the cost of the 20k additional births at county hospitals.

This bill would have cost the state millions more in hospital costs each year.

/and 12 years of public education.
 
2013-06-26 01:11:12 PM  
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22796078

By 11 weeks, you can find out if it has down syndrome or is deformed, so a 9 week window to get those tests done and then decide ... that's tough.  20 weeks is a bit harsh, especially if you're trying to consider people with little access to those test who might not find out until much later than 11 weeks.
 
2013-06-26 01:12:31 PM  

spiderpaz: .

Realistically, a reasonably responsible, sexually active person is going to know they're pregnant in the first 8 weeks.  If you don't know, it's because you're being negligent and lazy.  If you can't make up your mind which way to go in 4 months, I have trouble finding sympathy for you.


Again, the issue here isn't that women are saying, "Hey, I've had 5 months to figure this out, and now I don't want the baby", it's that the women are discovering that they are carrying a dead or dying fetus.

This has been pointed out again and again. Why do people still use this straw man?
 
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