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(Chicago Trib)   Chicago Cubs finally ditching Carlos Marmol after realizing they didn't have to keep him   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 37
    More: Fail, Carlos Marmol, Cubs, Chicago, NL All-Star, Jed Hoyer, Dan Haren, Triple-A Iowa, designated for assignment  
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763 clicks; posted to Sports » on 25 Jun 2013 at 9:21 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



37 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-06-25 09:30:28 PM  
See you in Detroit, Carlos. For some reason, Dombrowski/Leyland are not comfortable with closer by committee, so they'll throw millions your way.
 
2013-06-25 09:31:09 PM  
3 seasons too late but whatever, the Cubs never make good decisions anymore.
 
2013-06-25 09:41:45 PM  
They couldn't have waited until after the Brewers series...
 
2013-06-25 09:50:47 PM  

Gene Masseth Jr.: 3 seasons too late but whatever, the Cubs never make good decisions anymore.


Since 1908?
 
2013-06-25 09:51:24 PM  

Gene Masseth Jr.: 3 seasons too late but whatever, the Cubs never make good decisions anymore.


Don't worry, the Cubs will turn their fortunes around in two years.

cdn.gunaxin.com
 
2013-06-25 09:54:07 PM  
NAH-NAH-NAAAHHH-NAAAHHH!!!!!
 
2013-06-25 10:29:14 PM  
If only they weren't replacing him with a faster, less accurate version of Carlos Marmol.

//Looking at you, Henry
 
2013-06-25 11:09:52 PM  
What would be truly hilarious is if he goes somewhere else and becomes great.
 
2013-06-25 11:12:09 PM  
Is the Theo Epstein honeymoon over yet?
 
2013-06-25 11:16:01 PM  

kingflower: Is the Theo Epstein honeymoon over yet?


Long since over. Had such high hopes too.

//Life long Cubs fan, haven't watched a game in two years.
///If the goals was to sicken the most loyal fan-base in baseball..."Mission Accomplished".
 
2013-06-26 12:04:33 AM  

ten foiled hats: NAH-NAH-NAAAHHH-NAAAHHH!!!!!


NAH-NAH-NAAAHHH-NAAAHHH!!!!!
 
Oak
2013-06-26 12:23:16 AM  

kingflower: Is the Theo Epstein honeymoon over yet?


Nope.  Theo's rebuilding the right way: through the draft, and bottom up.  IOW, it doesn't really matter what the  MLB Cubs do this year or next; it's about the talent in the pipeline: and that's looking goooood.
 
2013-06-26 01:26:41 AM  
Ian Stewart was released too, he may not get a job anywhere for blasting the cubs like he did.

If you can't farking hit, don't blame the club. They don't teach you shiat hitting-wise in AAA if you were in the majors, that's where you go to get your swing back. If you can't hit bad pitching there, you don't deserve to be in the majors.
 
2013-06-26 01:30:16 AM  

italie: kingflower: Is the Theo Epstein honeymoon over yet?

Long since over. Had such high hopes too.

//Life long Cubs fan, haven't watched a game in two years.
///If the goals was to sicken the most loyal fan-base in baseball..."Mission Accomplished".


I don't think Theo came into this rebuild with the Hendry strategy of spending big money on free agents and making ridiculous trades to rob the Pirates' talent. Due to the changing landscape of baseball talent acquisition, they can no longer pick up expiring veteran contracts and turn them into sandwich draft picks. Instead they have been tanking seasons for very high picks (which we've been living through the past 3 seasons) as well as signing pitchers to short term deals in order to turn around and trade them at the deadline for talent. It worked last year with Paul Maholm, but not so much with Volstad last year and Scott Baker this year.

Look for them to try to move people like Garza*, Feldman, and Gregg in coming weeks for high prospects.

/* Garza was the product of a terrible, short-sighted trade that sold out half the farm system at a time when the Cubs were much, much more than a top starting pitcher away from the playoffs
//Jim Hendry should feel bad for that trade
 
2013-06-26 02:18:10 AM  

kingflower: Is the Theo Epstein honeymoon over yet?


He's still in the 'dumping Hendry contracts' stage. It's taking a while because those contracts were so bad. I think they'll be gone after this season, though, and then the actual work can start.
 
2013-06-26 02:59:20 AM  

Gosling: kingflower: Is the Theo Epstein honeymoon over yet?

He's still in the 'dumping Hendry contracts' stage. It's taking a while because those contracts were so bad. I think they'll be gone after this season, though, and then the actual work can start.


Soriano isn't off the books until after next season, but after that it's all Theo's work. He's already putting some new contracts (signing Rizzo to an extension), and I imagine that resigning Garza is planned if they don't trade him by the deadline (they have the money to do so). They have a host of interesting trade options including Luis Valbuena, who went being a solid one-to-two wins *below* replacement level to now being their top positional player.
 
2013-06-26 07:51:33 AM  

germ78: /* Garza was the product of a terrible, short-sighted trade that sold out half the farm system at a time when the Cubs were much, much more than a top starting pitcher away from the playoffs


Yup. I said at the time it was absolutely stupid, and I say it still in hindsight.
 
2013-06-26 08:06:03 AM  

germ78: italie: kingflower: Is the Theo Epstein honeymoon over yet?

Long since over. Had such high hopes too.

//Life long Cubs fan, haven't watched a game in two years.
///If the goals was to sicken the most loyal fan-base in baseball..."Mission Accomplished".

I don't think Theo came into this rebuild with the Hendry strategy of spending big money on free agents and making ridiculous trades to rob the Pirates' talent. Due to the changing landscape of baseball talent acquisition, they can no longer pick up expiring veteran contracts and turn them into sandwich draft picks. Instead they have been tanking seasons for very high picks (which we've been living through the past 3 seasons) as well as signing pitchers to short term deals in order to turn around and trade them at the deadline for talent. It worked last year with Paul Maholm, but not so much with Volstad last year and Scott Baker this year.

Look for them to try to move people like Garza*, Feldman, and Gregg in coming weeks for high prospects.

/* Garza was the product of a terrible, short-sighted trade that sold out half the farm system at a time when the Cubs were much, much more than a top starting pitcher away from the playoffs
//Jim Hendry should feel bad for that trade



I understand the rebuilding, and that isn't my issue. Rickets and Theo are creating a horrible atmosphere around the team.  Ticket prices are WAY to high for the teams they field. Altering a 20 year contract with the rooftops with a Vader-esque mentality. JumboTron. Issues with the city, empty threats to move. Players visibly unhappy with the way they conduct business (as are others in the organization). STILL signing bad contracts.

This isn't the happy PR house that McDonough build. This isn't even the "Lovable Losers" atmosphere preceding him. This is a team that is unlikable, and uncomfortable to follow...and not just because they suck. Loyalty = gone, history = forgotten, fun = non-existent...and they are charging a premium for it. Everything good about being a Cubs fan is gone.
 
2013-06-26 08:24:39 AM  

italie: germ78: italie: kingflower: Is the Theo Epstein honeymoon over yet?

Long since over. Had such high hopes too.

//Life long Cubs fan, haven't watched a game in two years.
///If the goals was to sicken the most loyal fan-base in baseball..."Mission Accomplished".

I don't think Theo came into this rebuild with the Hendry strategy of spending big money on free agents and making ridiculous trades to rob the Pirates' talent. Due to the changing landscape of baseball talent acquisition, they can no longer pick up expiring veteran contracts and turn them into sandwich draft picks. Instead they have been tanking seasons for very high picks (which we've been living through the past 3 seasons) as well as signing pitchers to short term deals in order to turn around and trade them at the deadline for talent. It worked last year with Paul Maholm, but not so much with Volstad last year and Scott Baker this year.

Look for them to try to move people like Garza*, Feldman, and Gregg in coming weeks for high prospects.

/* Garza was the product of a terrible, short-sighted trade that sold out half the farm system at a time when the Cubs were much, much more than a top starting pitcher away from the playoffs
//Jim Hendry should feel bad for that trade


I understand the rebuilding, and that isn't my issue. Rickets and Theo are creating a horrible atmosphere around the team.  Ticket prices are WAY to high for the teams they field. Altering a 20 year contract with the rooftops with a Vader-esque mentality. JumboTron. Issues with the city, empty threats to move. Players visibly unhappy with the way they conduct business (as are others in the organization). STILL signing bad contracts.

This isn't the happy PR house that McDonough build. This isn't even the "Lovable Losers" atmosphere preceding him. This is a team that is unlikable, and uncomfortable to follow...and not just because they suck. Loyalty = gone, history = forgotten, fun = non-existent...and they are charging a premium for it. Everything good about being a Cubs fan is gone.


I hate defending the cubs; however, I went to one game this year after not wasting my money the last 3 or 4 years. It was a good experience and I had fun. The cubs young guys are exciting to watch! I am excited about the team for the first time ages.

As for the rooftop owners? Screw them. Especially that loud mouth bar owner. They have been making money off someone else's work for ages, they should be thankful for what they got.

That said, I wish the cubs would have moved somewhere else. Wrigleyville is a pit and it's annoying on gamedays because you can't go within a mile of the stadium without running into the hoards of the suburbanites who insist on driving. Let them move somewhere less dense and with bigger roads.
 
2013-06-26 08:43:17 AM  
zeroman987: I hate defending the cubs; however, I went to one game this year after not wasting my money the last 3 or 4 years. It was a good experience and I had fun. The cubs young guys are exciting to watch! I am excited about the team for the first time ages.

As for the rooftop owners? Screw them. Especially that loud mouth bar owner. They have been making money off someone else's work for ages, they should be thankful for what they got.

That said, I wish the cubs would have moved somewhere else. Wrigleyville is a pit and it's annoying on gamedays because you can't go within a mile of the stadium without running into the hoards of the suburbanites who insist on driving. Let them move somewhere less dense and with bigger roads.



I hate defending the rooftop owners, but they really are getting a bad rap here. I know the owner you are talking about, have done business with him in the past. They guy is a huge jerk, but he's a jerk who is partially responsible for the revitalization of that area. The people and money he brings to the area outside of innings 1-9 (and partly inside those innings), is astounding. The rooftops are an important part as to what Wrigleyville is, economic and socioeconomic.

The owners have been flexible with the current issues. Offering their buildings up, 100% of add revenues from their buildings, etc. All they've asked for in return is for the Cubs to honor a 20 year contract they signed. Cubs are living through every other bad deal they signed, why can they just null and void this one?


//Have you ever been to the rooftops? Its a FAR better experience/value as of late than Wrigley is, which is sad.
 
2013-06-26 08:44:10 AM  
"Altering a 20 year contract with the rooftops with a Vader-esque mentality. "

Really? What kind of idiot defends the rooftop owners? These are the people who build giant bleachers on their roofs and put advertising on the side of their "apartment buildings" and then turn around who claim the historical look of the neghborhood will be damaged when a baseball stadium wants to add a jumbotron.
 
2013-06-26 08:47:27 AM  

italie: I understand the rebuilding, and that isn't my issue. Rickets and Theo are creating a horrible atmosphere around the team.  Ticket prices are WAY to high for the teams they field. Altering a 20 year contract with the rooftops with a Vader-esque mentality. JumboTron. Issues with the city, empty threats to move. Players visibly unhappy with the way they conduct business (as are others in the organization). STILL signing bad contracts.

This isn't the happy PR house that McDonough build. This isn't even the "Lovable Losers" atmosphere preceding him. This is a team that is unlikable, and uncomfortable to follow...and not just because they suck. Loyalty = gone, history = forgotten, fun = non-existent...and they are charging a premium for it. Everything good about being a Cubs fan is gone.


The Cubs will be fine. Every renovation project looks ugly halfway though. Have you ever seen yourself in the middle of a haircut?

What you're experiencing now is a professional baseball organization shifting their identity to that of...a professional baseball organization. Play hardball with the leeches (rooftop owners) and slackers (overpaid, underperforming players) that take everything they can carry out and give you next to nothing in return. Broadcast the fact that you don't give a good goddamn about anything that doesn't pertain to making money or winning games. Replace the traditions that held you back and start new practices that'll benefit you in the 21st century. It's not fun now but there will be plenty of time for fun when you start checking into playoff games.
 
2013-06-26 09:13:12 AM  
oi44.tinypic.com
 
2013-06-26 09:28:00 AM  

snowshovel: "Altering a 20 year contract with the rooftops with a Vader-esque mentality. "

Really? What kind of idiot defends the rooftop owners? These are the people who build giant bleachers on their roofs and put advertising on the side of their "apartment buildings" and then turn around who claim the historical look of the neghborhood will be damaged when a baseball stadium wants to add a jumbotron.


The kind of idiot that can do basic math, and not pretend this is still 1988.

Let me put this deal into terms we all can understand. Cubs get sick of rooftop owners "leaching" off of the team. Rooftop owners and Cubs sign a deal that allows the rooftops to become the integral part of the experience they already were, AND gives the cubs a guaranteed 17% cut of the revenue stream for 20 YEARS. The Cubs complain that they don't have the revenue capability that other team in baseball do, and they are right. But at the same time, tel me another team that has a 17% cut in each business outside of there north and east walls?

Now the new Cubs management comes in, and says "We don't care about your 17% for the next 13 or so years". We'd rather put up a billboard and a jumbo tron to make that money." (I might add that the billboard and jumbotron do NOT come with guaranteed revenue for the next 13 years.)

The rooftops counter with (what to me seems like a more than generous offer) letting the cubs have complete control over the face of each building for any type of signage they want, and 100% of that revenue. The Cubs declined the offer.

With the money that the rooftops bring in, and the "Complete experience" Ricketts wants (a la Fenway), there is zero excuse to be pissing off your neighbors. There is also zero excuse to be throwing away 13 years worth of proven revenue. The only reason this is happening is that Ricketts wants the land to expand. The_only_reason. It doesn't make any sense otherwise.

That to me is defensible, the rooftop owners are being screwed over.
 
2013-06-26 09:40:16 AM  

italie: Now the new Cubs management comes in, and says "We don't care about your 17% for the next 13 or so years". We'd rather put up a billboard and a jumbo tron to make that money." (I might add that the billboard and jumbotron do NOT come with guaranteed revenue for the next 13 years.)


Well billboards and jumbotrons at sporting events is like beer and popcorn at...well...sporting events. So that cute little 13-year guarantee isn't nearly as attractive as the rooftop owners think.

It's a thing of beauty when a professional sports team can live harmoniously with the local small businesses. But make no mistake: the Cubs don't owe the rooftop owners anything. It's the Chicago Cubs, a heritage franchise in American baseball. They'll be just fine all on their own.
 
2013-06-26 10:10:49 AM  
The cubs sucked for roughly 20 years, through numerous "Rebuilding" periods. Attendance set records.The past two years have seen a marked drop in attendance. That equals a loss in revenue. Damaging the business around you that you have a stake in. That equals a loss of revenue. Pricing out your fans during a rebuild. That equals a loss of revenue. Turning down 50000sq ft of signage space. That equals a loss of revenue. The Cubs are limited in their revenue abilities, but not for the reasons they think. There is a reason the team sold for near a billion while sucking and the previous ownera were in bankruptcy...
 
2013-06-26 10:26:45 AM  

italie: The cubs sucked for roughly 20 years, through numerous "Rebuilding" periods. Attendance set records.The past two years have seen a marked drop in attendance. That equals a loss in revenue. Damaging the business around you that you have a stake in. That equals a loss of revenue. Pricing out your fans during a rebuild. That equals a loss of revenue. Turning down 50000sq ft of signage space. That equals a loss of revenue. The Cubs are limited in their revenue abilities, but not for the reasons they think. There is a reason the team sold for near a billion while sucking and the previous ownera were in bankruptcy...


The team sold after making the playoffs in back to back years for the first time since they won the World Series.  The company that was going bankrupt was the Tribune Company, and everyone in the newspaper business is hurting right now.

Tom Ricketts and Epstein want to add tons of new ad space to Wrigley, but have to get around the landmark status first; that's why they proposed a Wrigley renovation plan that asks for no taxpayer money.  Also, this year the Cubs lowered their ticket prices, and tickets can commonly be found on Stubhub for $5-$15.

Anything else you want to be wrong about?
 
2013-06-26 11:06:08 AM  
Making the playoffs twice had very little to do with the sale price. When you buy a ballclub, you arent doing so based upon two years of revenue info. The Cubs are a proven cash cow, even in losing years. THAT is the financial appeal.Part of the reasoning for the teams appeal to paying fans was Wrigley itself. Yes..even though its a dump, its an iconic dump that people want to visit. Why do they want to visit it? Because it IS NOT like every other ballpark. No jumbotron, not smatterred with ads, etc. Call me wrong all you want, but the marlins have tons of ad space too. How well is that working for them?They are systematicly destroying what made the Cubs a cash cow to begin with...to make them a cash cow. Does not compute.// and having $9 obstructed view tickets against shaitty teams does not make me feel better.
 
2013-06-26 11:13:43 AM  
Apologies on the formatting. On the phone, browser not cooperating on the phone.
 
2013-06-26 11:37:21 AM  

italie: Apologies on the formatting. On the phone, browser not cooperating on the phone.


That's all right, your thoughts are even worse than your typing.
 
2013-06-26 11:39:06 AM  
Whatever you say, Chaz.
 
2013-06-26 11:46:45 AM  

italie: Making the playoffs twice had very little to do with the sale price. When you buy a ballclub, you arent doing so based upon two years of revenue info. The Cubs are a proven cash cow, even in losing years. THAT is the financial appeal.Part of the reasoning for the teams appeal to paying fans was Wrigley itself. Yes..even though its a dump, its an iconic dump that people want to visit. Why do they want to visit it? Because it IS NOT like every other ballpark. No jumbotron, not smatterred with ads, etc. Call me wrong all you want, but the marlins have tons of ad space too. How well is that working for them?They are systematicly destroying what made the Cubs a cash cow to begin with...to make them a cash cow. Does not compute.// and having $9 obstructed view tickets against shaitty teams does not make me feel better.


Go watch the sox then. Sounds like you would fit in at 35th street.
 
2013-06-26 01:10:28 PM  

zeroman987: That said, I wish the cubs would have moved somewhere else. Wrigleyville is a pit and it's annoying on gamedays because you can't go within a mile of the stadium without running into the hoards of the suburbanites who insist on driving. Let them move somewhere less dense and with bigger roads.


Like it or not, Wrigley is untouchable in its status as the home of the Chicago Cubs. Completely, utterly untouchable. It alone among stadiums in the United States is regarded as a place you take foreign visitors to the US. It alone is regarded as a bucket-list venue. Lambeau can't make that claim. Fenway can't make that claim. Yankee Stadium can't make that claim. Notre Dame Stadium can't make that claim. Tear Wrigley down and a huge chunk of who the Cubs are vanishes forever in a way no amount of modern amenities can replicate. The owner that tears down Wrigley becomes Public Enemy #1 in Chicago in a way that not even a World Series victory will forgive. They become Art Modell in Cleveland. They become Walter O'Malley in Brooklyn. They become Harry Frazee in Boston. They become the Bidwell family in Pottsville.
 
2013-06-26 02:32:07 PM  

Gosling: zeroman987: That said, I wish the cubs would have moved somewhere else. Wrigleyville is a pit and it's annoying on gamedays because you can't go within a mile of the stadium without running into the hoards of the suburbanites who insist on driving. Let them move somewhere less dense and with bigger roads.

Like it or not, Wrigley is untouchable in its status as the home of the Chicago Cubs. Completely, utterly untouchable. It alone among stadiums in the United States is regarded as a place you take foreign visitors to the US. It alone is regarded as a bucket-list venue. Lambeau can't make that claim. Fenway can't make that claim. Yankee Stadium can't make that claim. Notre Dame Stadium can't make that claim. Tear Wrigley down and a huge chunk of who the Cubs are vanishes forever in a way no amount of modern amenities can replicate. The owner that tears down Wrigley becomes Public Enemy #1 in Chicago in a way that not even a World Series victory will forgive. They become Art Modell in Cleveland. They become Walter O'Malley in Brooklyn. They become Harry Frazee in Boston. They become the Bidwell family in Pottsville.


I did get a big laugh out of Tinley Park offering land to the Cubs for a new stadium. I can handle a potential move to Rosemont or Arlington Heights, but Tinley Park? No thanks. That would completely kill my Cubs fandom along with my general interest in baseball. And no, it doesn't help that TP is a 2 hour drive away from me - the lack of an exit from the Tri-State tollway directly onto I-57 adds a good 20-30 minutes to the drive.

italie: Call me wrong all you want, but the marlins have tons of ad space too. How well is that working for them?


Apples and oranges. Loria has proven time and time again that he has no interest in running a baseball team and uses the team as a private revenue generator after taking public money for a new stadium. He's baseball's Bill Wirtz.
 
2013-06-26 02:35:59 PM  

germ78: I did get a big laugh out of Tinley Park offering land to the Cubs for a new stadium. I can handle a potential move to Rosemont or Arlington Heights, but Tinley Park? No thanks. That would completely kill my Cubs fandom along with my general interest in baseball. And no, it doesn't help that TP is a 2 hour drive away from me - the lack of an exit from the Tri-State tollway directly onto I-57 adds a good 20-30 minutes to the drive.


Total troll move. Tinley Park is much farther South than U.S. Cellular Field, effectively making the White Sox the new "North Siders." Although it would be nice to see how some Cub fans would adjust to owning the old dog-whistle words they've associate with the South Side for so many decades.
 
2013-06-26 04:52:29 PM  
I'm a Cards fan, but man, there's really only so much Cubs schadenfreude I can handle. It used to be fun, you know? Even if they were the worst team in baseball, the game was at least a hell of a time and the players always got up for it. Now, it's like watching that guy you hate go through a messy divorce. It's hilarious for the first year or so, but when it's three years in and the guy has turned into a sloppy drunk who's always depressed, you can't quite keep laughing.

Although I will take bets on who gets back to a .500 season first, Houston or Chicago. It's almost a perfect straight challenge bet, since Epstein and Luhnow both took their respective jobs after the 2011 season, and both clubs were absolutely terrible that year. Chicago was 71-91, while Houston was 56-106. Astros might get a bump by not being in the NL Central any more, but the Cubbies started with a "better" team, if you're only looking at record.
 
2013-06-26 08:53:35 PM  

Orgasmatron138: Also, this year the Cubs lowered their ticket prices, and tickets can commonly be found on Stubhub for $5-$15.


Your other points are valid, but the Cubs average ticket price is ~$44 (down from ~$46 last year), the third-highest in the majors (source), for a team which the management admitted before the season started wouldn't be competitive in 2013.  The fact that the secondary market is taking a hammering (reflected in the current StubHub prices) is hardly an indication of the team not "pricing out their fans during a rebuild".

...of course, it's almost certain that attendance will bounce back over $3M once they start sniffing the playoffs again, so the short term is probably not really concerning anyone, unless they go and do something stupid like move to the 'burbs.
 
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