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(CNN)   Zimmerman defense lawyer apologizes to jury for telling knock-knock joke about them in his opening statement, asks them if they've heard the one about Trayvon Martin's favorite flavor of Skittles   (cnn.com) divider line 933
    More: Dumbass, George Zimmerman, Skittles, opening statement, Mark O'Mara, Angela Corey, next of kin, Benjamin Crump, Dean Martin  
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6580 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jun 2013 at 8:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-25 11:25:18 PM

ongbok: Abuse Liability: ongbok: Abuse Liability: ongbok: Abuse Liability: bugontherug: Phinn: The anti-Zimmerman crowd is basically relying on a "yada yada yada" theory for the prosecution.

"Zimmerman saw a black teenager who wasn't doing anything wrong, but he followed the teen unfairly, and yada yada yada, he ended up dead."

You're all basically a walking Seinfeld joke.

Don't get your hopes up.

Sorry, sparky. I saw you trying to use the girlfriend's statement above too. And if now suddenly the girlfriend is credible, Zimmerman is fried.

"Why are you following me?" Present tense.

By the girlfriends admission he lost him. He's speaking in the present tense assuming zim was still trying to sniff him out and follow him. He wasn't aware zim was essentially waiting on the cops he called. I mean if you're trying to engage and shoot a child, its probably best not to give the cops so much notice they nearly catch you in the act

How was Zimmerman waiting on the cops when he wouldn't give the cops the location he was at?

He said he would tell them when they got there. He thought martin was 'still around'. Regardless, you expect us to believe he was planning on starting an altercation after he called police? Nothing quite like getting yourself arrested for assault. Oh wait. Conspiracy theory to divert attention from his true motive.

No I don't think he was planning on starting an altercation. I never said that. I always said that when Trayvon ran he got pissed and decided he was going to catch him because you know "These assholes always get away".

And also as the original investigator said, he had several opportunities to ask him as a concerned citizen what he was doing there before the situation escalated but didn't. He waited until the situation became confrontational one. He created that atmosphere.

Still no excuse for martins alleged behavior (based on evidence). My in-laws create hostile environments for me all the time but I don't assault them (even though I really want to).

So lets say your son is walking home one night and some guy is following him and watching him and not saying anything. Your child gets so freaked out they decide to run, but that person still follows them and eventually catches them. You wouldn't expect for your child to fight back?

Please stop ignoring the fact that Trayvon ran and tried to avoid the situation and Zimmerman continued to push it.


Two things. First a cop noticed grass on zimms back. Stop barking up that tree. Secondly, if my son was beating a man to death then I raised him the wrong way. I've been in several fights and never felt the need to curb stomp or dash someones head into the concrete.
 
2013-06-25 11:25:29 PM

Abuse Liability: CliChe Guevara: Abuse Liability: Are those grass stains on his knees? Its almost as if he was kneeling on top of someone.

gz has already admitted to throwing tm face down, sitting on top of him, and holding his arms. this easily explains the grass stains on the front of tm's clothing all by itself.
the back of gz clothings, however, is pristine. just sayin'

Just below the knees but not above? And zimms clothes were photographed after they had dried. Try again.


You don't think Zimmerman's clothes would have mud or at least grass stains on the if Trayvon was holding him down so forcefully that he couldn't get up? Or from struggling and fighting to get out from under Trayvon he wouldn't have gotten mud or grass stains on his clothes?
 
2013-06-25 11:25:59 PM
"If it be present tense, he done the offense."
-- bugontherug (Certified Supra Genius)
 
2013-06-25 11:29:58 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: bugontherug: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Objection, conjecture.. AGAIN.

I do not think this word means what you think it means.

bugontherug: from which we may easily infer guilt

infer [in-fur] Show IPA
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: conclude
Synonyms: arrive at, ascertain, assume, believe, collect, conjecture, construe, deduce, derive, draw, draw inference, figure, figure out, gather, glean, guess, induce, interpret, intuit, judge, presume, presuppose, reach conclusion, read between lines, read into, reason, reckon, speculate, suppose, surmise, think, understand

I eagerly await your next tangent designed to distract from the fact that you were wrong yet again.


Nope. I was right again. Let me help you with your understanding of synonym.

"one of two or more words or expressions of the same language that have the same or nearly the same meaning in some or all senses"

In some senses, "conjecture" has nearly the same meaning as "inference." So let's look at those meanings:

inference

"a conclusion or opinion that is formed because of known facts or evidence."

conjecture

"inference from defective or presumptive evidence."

So no, when you call my inferences from non-presumptive evidence "conjecture," you are wrong. Let me demonstrate:

inference
Zimmerman called Trayvon an "asshole."
Therefore Zimmerman harbored ill-will towards Trayvon.
Therefore the statutory element of "illl will" required for a 2nd degree murder conviction is satisfied.

conjecture
Blacks have committed some break-ins in my neighborhood lately.
Trayvon Martin is black.
Therefore Trayvon Martin has committed some break-ins in my neighborhood lately.

inference
Zimmerman partisans have admitted that Trayvon's girlfriend is a credible witness.
Therefore, it is probably true that Trayvon asked "why are you following me for."

Statements of present sense impression are considered so inherently reliable, that they're admissible in court as evidence even when they're hearsay.

Therefore, George Zimmerman was probably following Trayvon Martin at the time of their encounter.
Therefore George Zimmerman lied about what happened, because he said Trayvon Martin attacked him while walking back to his truck.

People who lie about self-defense do so because they know the real facts of the case do not support them.
Therefore, George Zimmerman's lie about Trayvon attacking him while returning to his truck adds strength to the inference of Zimmerman's guilt.

conjecture
Trayvon was a young black male.
Therefore, Trayvon is presumptively irrationally violent.
Therefore, George Zimmerman's implausibly one-sided, action movie account of what happened makes a lot of sense.
 
2013-06-25 11:30:06 PM

ongbok: Please stop ignoring the fact that Trayvon ran and tried to avoid the situation and Zimmerman continued to push it.


Yes.. This guy..
i41.tinypic.com

Beat this guy..
i39.tinypic.com

In any race.  Sounds legit.
 
2013-06-25 11:30:39 PM
I failed to address your other criticism. Martin did try to avoid an altercation, at first. Then it appears as though he instigated a violent confrontation. I would argue that with police on the way, zimm never intended to get physical. That onus lies with martin.
 
2013-06-25 11:30:51 PM
What people seem to be missing, is that as Zimmerman thinks calling for help was enough, as thefight was occurring.
I don't think fear for his life came until Trayvon went for the gun.
Remember the 911 call started after the fight, and went on for a bit before the shot was fired. I feel like I hear two voices, but knowing who is screaming doesn't answer who is "winning", or what else is happening between them.
 
2013-06-25 11:31:54 PM

Phinn: "If it be present tense, he done the offense."
-- bugontherug (Certified Supra Genius)


Nope. Try this one:

Trayvon died, Zimmerman lied. That's all we need to know.
 
2013-06-25 11:32:20 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: ongbok: Please stop ignoring the fact that Trayvon ran and tried to avoid the situation and Zimmerman continued to push it.

Yes.. This guy..
[i41.tinypic.com image 247x319]

Beat this guy..
[i39.tinypic.com image 620x347]

In any race.  Sounds legit.


As Zimmerman's lawyer said in his opening, at the time of the incident he was a lot lighter and in shape as he was regularly training in Muay Thai.
 
2013-06-25 11:32:52 PM

bugontherug: inference

"a conclusion or opinion that is formed because of known facts or evidence."


Let us know when you come to a conclusion based on known facts.  Then we'll finally agree that Zimmerman is innocent.
 
2013-06-25 11:34:58 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: CliChe Guevara: BraveNewCheneyWorld: CliChe Guevara: BraveNewCheneyWorld: The ONLY reason the 2 met again that night is because Treyvon Martin wanted to see GZ again.  He HAD to double back to confront GZ or else GZ would never have been able to catch him even if he wanted to.

unless he was hiding from gz and got caught. you know, the way gz said he was hiding.

The transcript I have doesn't say the word "hiding", can you please link the transcript you're using?

  i know gz stories tend to conflict a lot, but i was referring to the one the night of the shooting where gz referred to tm as having 'jumped out of some bushes' and hitting him.
 there were actually no bushes near where he said it happened of course, but its gz, so you learn to ignore the inconvenient little details like that.

 at any rate, at least one gz account involved tm hiding. unless tm left the scene and then came back, hiding just fits the rest of what we know as well, including things inferred from gz's 911 call.
 we just don't hear much about tm hiding from gz and later being discovered being a possibility, as the other narrative - that tm left, then came back and hunted gz down - plays so much better for the gz apologists.

So.. you're not going to share the link directing us to where you found this information?


dude, its in gz's first recorded statement to the cops. i already told you where it was, go find any one of a hundred copies of the transcript on a google search.
In his first recorded interview with police the night of the Feb. 26 shooting, Zimmerman said Trayvon popped out at him from "the bushes."

/By the time he re-enacted the shooting less than 24 hours later, however, Zimmerman was much more precise, and the spot he pointed out had no bushes nearby. But we'll let that go for now, as his later statements invalidate both of these first statements.
 
2013-06-25 11:36:22 PM

bugontherug: BraveNewCheneyWorld: bugontherug: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Objection, conjecture.. AGAIN.

I do not think this word means what you think it means.

bugontherug: from which we may easily infer guilt

infer [in-fur] Show IPA
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: conclude
Synonyms: arrive at, ascertain, assume, believe, collect, conjecture, construe, deduce, derive, draw, draw inference, figure, figure out, gather, glean, guess, induce, interpret, intuit, judge, presume, presuppose, reach conclusion, read between lines, read into, reason, reckon, speculate, suppose, surmise, think, understand

I eagerly await your next tangent designed to distract from the fact that you were wrong yet again.

Nope. I was right again. Let me help you with your understanding of synonym.

"one of two or more words or expressions of the same language that have the same or nearly the same meaning in some or all senses"

In some senses, "conjecture" has nearly the same meaning as "inference." So let's look at those meanings:

inference

"a conclusion or opinion that is formed because of known facts or evidence."

conjecture

"inference from defective or presumptive evidence."

So no, when you call my inferences from non-presumptive evidence "conjecture," you are wrong. Let me demonstrate:

inference
Zimmerman called Trayvon an "asshole."
Therefore Zimmerman harbored ill-will towards Trayvon.
Therefore the statutory element of "illl will" required for a 2nd degree murder conviction is satisfied.

conjecture
Blacks have committed some break-ins in my neighborhood lately.
Trayvon Martin is black.
Therefore Trayvon Martin has committed some break-ins in my neighborhood lately.

inference
Zimmerman partisans have admitted that Trayvon's girlfriend is a credible witness.
Therefore, it is probably true that Trayvon asked "why are you following me for."

Statements of present sense impression are considered so inherently reliable, that they're admissible in court as evidence even when they're hearsay.

Therefore, George Zimmerman was probably following Trayvon Martin at the time of their encounter.
Therefore George Zimmerman lied about what happened, because he said Trayvon Martin attacked him while walking back to his truck.

People who lie about self-defense do so because they know the real facts of the case do not support them.
Therefore, George Zimmerman's lie about Trayvon attacking him while returning to his truck adds strength to the inference of Zimmerman's guilt.

conjecture
Trayvon was a young black male.
Therefore, Trayvon is presumptively irrationally violent.
Therefore, George Zimmerman's implausibly one-sided, action movie account of what happened makes a lot of sense.


I haven't seen so many tenuous leaps in logic since I read a cracked article on fan theories of popular comic characters.
 
2013-06-25 11:36:30 PM

ongbok: BraveNewCheneyWorld: ongbok: Please stop ignoring the fact that Trayvon ran and tried to avoid the situation and Zimmerman continued to push it.

Yes.. This guy..
[i41.tinypic.com image 247x319]

Beat this guy..
[i39.tinypic.com image 620x347]

In any race.  Sounds legit.

As Zimmerman's lawyer said in his opening, at the time of the incident he was a lot lighter and in shape as he was regularly training in Muay Thai.


Lmao, it wouldn't even matter.  An olympic sprinter couldn't beat Treyvon to his home which was only a few hundred feet away given the fact that Zimmerman (and the olympic sprinter) gave him a head start the length of half his phone call length.  TM could have walked casually to his house by the time that call was over.
 
2013-06-25 11:38:59 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: bugontherug: inference

"a conclusion or opinion that is formed because of known facts or evidence."

Let us know when you come to a conclusion based on known facts.  Then we'll finally agree that Zimmerman is innocent.


Known fact: George Zimmerman called Trayvon Martin a "punk" and an "asshole."
Sensible generalization: people who call total strangers "assholes" and "punks" while trying to get the police to come after them harbor ill-will towards them.
Conclusion: Zimmerman harbored ill-will towards Trayvon Martin.

Nope. Sorry. That doesn't lead me to agree with you that Zimmerman is innocent. It kind of leads me the opposite direction, in fact.
 
2013-06-25 11:39:27 PM

Abuse Liability: I haven't seen so many tenuous leaps in logic since I read a cracked article on fan theories of popular comic characters.


At least it's trying to think.
 
2013-06-25 11:41:34 PM

bugontherug: BraveNewCheneyWorld: bugontherug: inference

"a conclusion or opinion that is formed because of known facts or evidence."

Let us know when you come to a conclusion based on known facts.  Then we'll finally agree that Zimmerman is innocent.

Known fact: George Zimmerman called Trayvon Martin a "punk" and an "asshole."
Sensible generalization: people who call total strangers "assholes" and "punks" while trying to get the police to come after them harbor ill-will towards them.
Conclusion: Zimmerman harbored ill-will towards Trayvon Martin.

Nope. Sorry. That doesn't lead me to agree with you that Zimmerman is innocent. It kind of leads me the opposite direction, in fact.


That's some serious I'll will . Hopefully no ever dies in a traffic accident as the number of people that called that driver an asshole would probably introduce thousands of suspects with motive for vehicular homicide
 
2013-06-25 11:43:27 PM

Phinn: Popcorn Johnny: Abuse Liability: Are those grass stains on his knees? Its almost as if he was kneeling on top of someone.

Look at his pants below the knee, especially on the left leg. Only the front half of the pant leg is wet, clear evidence that he was kneeling in the wet grass.

Stop discussing this "evidence" as though it means anything.

Here's what happened -- Zimmerman bought a gun, he went out for groceries while carrying said gun, and yada yada yada, Trayvon Martin was dead."

When you add these incontrovertible facts to the fact that DeeDee kinda sorta used the word "are" without actually enunciating the actual "are" sound ... well, gentlemen, need we say more?

Guilty. Period. End of story. QED.


Guilty?  based on what?  Premedited not liking darkies?  Why didnt he shoot other darkies.
The difference is Mr Martin.
 
2013-06-25 11:44:23 PM

Popcorn Johnny: And with this little nugget of bullshiat, I'm off to bed.


 bullshait? what part? gz did admit to sitting atop a face down tm in the grass pinning him and holding his arms. the first witness to come out and talk to gz after the shooting found them in just that position. martin died face down. police report shows the cops found him that way when they arrived. what part of that are you disputing? what part of it is a facet of the obama/liberal media/jewish conspiracy?

 the pics of him on his back are from well after after the cops and emts had been on the scene for some time and had rolled him over.
 
2013-06-25 11:46:11 PM
The ill will to which you're referring would be criminal justice and its why he called the cops. He wasn't looking for confrontation or murder. shiat, its almost 11. Time to go to bed.
 
2013-06-25 11:46:50 PM

Abuse Liability: I haven't seen so many tenuous leaps in logic since I read a cracked article on fan theories of popular comic characters.


Zimmerman called Trayvon an "asshole."
Therefore Zimmerman harbored ill-will towards Trayvon.

Now, you could call that a "leap of logic." After all, I didn't state the sensible generalization "people who call other people assholes usually harbor ill-will towards them." But that doesn't make my argument wrong. It makes it an enthymeme.

And the simple fact is, nearly all arguments that people make in daily life, even in court, contain implicit premises. Reciting them all all the time would be tedious. Which is why logic requires a dose of something called "common sense." A trait of which Zimmerman's partisans show serious deficit when they argue stupid ideas like "Zimmerman had no reason to harbor ill-will against Trayvon."

He certainly had no good reason to, I'll agree with that. But given the evidence, and the sensible inferences therefrom, he did harbor ill-will against the boy.
 
2013-06-25 11:49:47 PM

CliChe Guevara: Popcorn Johnny: And with this little nugget of bullshiat, I'm off to bed.

 bullshait? what part? gz did admit to sitting atop a face down tm in the grass pinning him and holding his arms. the first witness to come out and talk to gz after the shooting found them in just that position. martin died face down. police report shows the cops found him that way when they arrived. what part of that are you disputing? what part of it is a facet of the obama/liberal media/jewish conspiracy?

 the pics of him on his back are from well after after the cops and emts had been on the scene for some time and had rolled him over.


But for some reason, only the lower half of his pants were "noticeably wet". Probably because he spent more time on his knees straddling zim. They had more time to really soak up that water. Now off to bed. Hopefully.
 
2013-06-25 11:52:20 PM

CliChe Guevara: lantawa: Trayvon Martin was skulking in the neighborhood

define 'skulking' for us. is that just something black people do?


No, sport.  Here is the definition of skulking, exactly the kind of behavior that Trayvon Martin was exhibiting, and, basically, what got him killed when he attempted to use his youth, strength, virility, and full contact-sport-trained power to ambush Zimmerman.   SKULKING:
skulking - definition of  skulking by the Free Online Dictionary  ...www.thefreedictionary.com/skulking class="action-menu ab_ctl" style="display: inline; position: relative; margin: 0px 3px; vertical-align: middle; -webkit-user-select: none; ">https://www.google.com/search?q=skulking&rlz=1C1RNBN_enUS460US464&o q=s kulking&sugexp=chrome,mod=0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#" data-ved="0CDQQ7B0wAQ" aria-label="Result details" jsaction="ab.tdd; keydown:ab.hbke; keypress:ab.mskpe" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" aria-expanded="false" style="border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold; height: 12px; line-height: 27px; margin: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; -webkit-transition: all 0.218s, visibility 0s; -webkit-user-select: none; cursor: pointer; background-image: none; border: 0px; color: rgb(68, 68, 68); box-shadow: 0px 0px 0px 0px; -webkit-box-shadow: 0px 0px 0px 0px; display: inline-block; filter: none; width: 13px; text-decoration: none; ">www.thefreedictionary.com/skulking+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us" target="_blank">http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:X 7ngGK-loTcJ:www.thefreedictionary.com/skulking+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl =us>" class="fl" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; display: block; padding: 7px 18px; outline: 0px; ">www.thefreedictionary.com/skulking+skulking&tbo=1&sa=X&ei=TWPKUYjaN sO_ 0gGR5IC4BQ&ved=0CDcQHzAB" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&rlz=1C1RNBN_enU S460US464&q=related:www.thefreedictionary.com/skulking+skulking&tbo=1 &sa=X&ei=TWPKUYjaNsO_ 0gGR5IC4BQ&ved=0CDcQHzAB>" class="fl" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; display: block; padding: 7px 18px; outline: 0px; ">To lie in hiding, as out of cowardice or bad conscience; lurk. 2. To move about stealthily. 3. To evade work or obligation; shirk. n. 1. One who hides, lurks,  ...

Ya got that, sport.  Do you see anything in that definition that mentions "black people?"  You are a race-baiting moron, sport...
 
2013-06-25 11:53:29 PM

Abuse Liability: That's some serious I'll will . Hopefully no ever dies in a traffic accident as the number of people that called that driver an asshole would probably introduce thousands of suspects with motive for vehicular homicide


This common sense deficit I'm referring to: this is it right here. Yes. After traffic accidents, drivers very often harbor ill-will towards the parties involved in their crash. But in the absense of other evidence, like some ill-will existing prior to the accident, we don't find anyone suspect of (intentional) vehicular homicide.

Now, suppose you call a guy a "punk" and an "asshole," and then the next day run over him with your car, you can bet that makes you suspect. And rightly so.
 
2013-06-25 11:54:57 PM
jesus.  Nice quoting there, lantawa.  Well, anyhoo, here's the important part:   To lie in hiding, as out of cowardice or bad conscience; lurk. 2. To move about stealthily. 3. To evade work or obligation; shirk. n. 1. One who hides, lurks,...


THIS.  It's what Martin did. okay....
 
2013-06-25 11:56:24 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Guilty? based on what? Premedited not liking darkies? Why didnt he shoot other darkies.
The difference is Mr Martin.



I was being sarcastic.  Exaggerating the ridiculousness of bugontherug.  It's hard to tell sometimes.  He self-beclowns that way.

For example, he sincerely thinks he cracked the case because ... get this ... DeeDee used the PRESENT TENSE when she said "Why ARE you following me?" which therefore supposedly means that the FOLLOWING WAS STILL ONGOING!!

(Even though she actually said, "Wha' choo followin' me fo'?" and thus didn't use any of the conjugations of the verb "to be" at all, really.  He has pinned his opinion of GZ's guilt on this kind of crap.)

It's all really very entertaining, when you start reading bugontherug's posts as some kind of post-modern performance artist.  It's a masterpiece of absurdity.
 
2013-06-25 11:58:27 PM
I've  enjoyed watching the pro-prosecution people in this thread make well reasoned, common sense arguments, only to be personally attacked by the pro-Zimmerman people. I didn't have an opinion on this case before today, and still really don't. But this exchange is definitely moving me in one direction.
 
2013-06-26 12:00:08 AM

youncasqua: I've  enjoyed watching the pro-prosecution people in this thread make well reasoned, common sense arguments, only to be personally attacked by the pro-Zimmerman people. I didn't have an opinion on this case before today, and still really don't. But this exchange is definitely moving me in one direction.



The whole world has been breathlessly awaiting your opinion.
 
2013-06-26 12:00:08 AM

bugontherug: Abuse Liability: That's some serious I'll will . Hopefully no ever dies in a traffic accident as the number of people that called that driver an asshole would probably introduce thousands of suspects with motive for vehicular homicide

This common sense deficit I'm referring to: this is it right here. Yes. After traffic accidents, drivers very often harbor ill-will towards the parties involved in their crash. But in the absense of other evidence, like some ill-will existing prior to the accident, we don't find anyone suspect of (intentional) vehicular homicide.

Now, suppose you call a guy a "punk" and an "asshole," and then the next day run over him with your car, you can bet that makes you suspect. And rightly so.


Your rationalizations still omit the fact that Treyvon was necessarily the one who went from a position out of sight, to being on top of Zimmerman and bashing his face in.  He is the one who dictated that a confrontation would happen and is most likely the one who chose violence.  You cannot prove otherwise with any certainty, so legally Zimmerman must be found innocent.
 
2013-06-26 12:02:11 AM

youncasqua: I've  enjoyed watching the pro-prosecution people in this thread make well reasoned, common sense arguments, only to be personally attacked by the pro-Zimmerman people. I didn't have an opinion on this case before today, and still really don't. But this exchange is definitely moving me in one direction.


Alt like typing detected.
 
2013-06-26 12:12:31 AM
he should get the death penalty
just for putting everybody through this trial

when he's already on tape disobeying police orders from 911
and heading out to cap some kid who never did anything

it's all right there, jesus christ
 
2013-06-26 12:15:08 AM

Abuse Liability: I failed to address your other criticism. Martin did try to avoid an altercation, at first. Then it appears as though he instigated a violent confrontation. I would argue that with police on the way, zimm never intended to get physical. That onus lies with martin.


He was tired of "those farking assholes and scumbags" getting away.  If the scumbag that he was stalking stopped to ask him why he was following him, you honestly think he wouldn't try to keep him from walking away?
 
2013-06-26 12:19:43 AM

lantawa: CliChe Guevara: lantawa: Trayvon Martin was skulking in the neighborhood

define 'skulking' for us. is that just something black people do?

No, sport.  Here is the definition of skulking, exactly the kind of behavior that Trayvon Martin was exhibiting, and, basically, what got him killed


Um, I didn't see anything in that definition involving returning from a trip to the store.

please go on about this whole 'skulking' thing,  because to the rest of us, your description of 'skulking' sounds a whole lot like 'walking while black'
 
2013-06-26 12:21:32 AM
Begun the circus has.
 
2013-06-26 12:21:58 AM

davynelson: he should get the death penalty
just for putting everybody through this trial

when he's already on tape disobeying police orders from 911
and heading out to cap some kid who never did anything

it's all right there, jesus christ



The fact that you vote is enough to discredit democracy.
 
2013-06-26 12:27:49 AM

Abuse Liability: ongbok: Abuse Liability: ongbok: Abuse Liability: ongbok: Abuse Liability: bugontherug: Phinn: The anti-Zimmerman crowd is basically relying on a "yada yada yada" theory for the prosecution.

"Zimmerman saw a black teenager who wasn't doing anything wrong, but he followed the teen unfairly, and yada yada yada, he ended up dead."

You're all basically a walking Seinfeld joke.

Don't get your hopes up.

Sorry, sparky. I saw you trying to use the girlfriend's statement above too. And if now suddenly the girlfriend is credible, Zimmerman is fried.

"Why are you following me?" Present tense.

By the girlfriends admission he lost him. He's speaking in the present tense assuming zim was still trying to sniff him out and follow him. He wasn't aware zim was essentially waiting on the cops he called. I mean if you're trying to engage and shoot a child, its probably best not to give the cops so much notice they nearly catch you in the act

How was Zimmerman waiting on the cops when he wouldn't give the cops the location he was at?

He said he would tell them when they got there. He thought martin was 'still around'. Regardless, you expect us to believe he was planning on starting an altercation after he called police? Nothing quite like getting yourself arrested for assault. Oh wait. Conspiracy theory to divert attention from his true motive.

No I don't think he was planning on starting an altercation. I never said that. I always said that when Trayvon ran he got pissed and decided he was going to catch him because you know "These assholes always get away".

And also as the original investigator said, he had several opportunities to ask him as a concerned citizen what he was doing there before the situation escalated but didn't. He waited until the situation became confrontational one. He created that atmosphere.

Still no excuse for martins alleged behavior (based on evidence). My in-laws create hostile environments for me all the time but I don't assault them (even though I ...




Martin wasn't scared or running from Zimmerman. He sought out him after Zimmerman lost track of him
 
2013-06-26 12:31:16 AM
Okay, based on this thread, I've changed my mind again. Now, I am completely convinced Trayvon Martin is guilty and should spend the rest of his life rotting in jail.
 
2013-06-26 12:38:28 AM

youncasqua: I've  enjoyed watching the pro-prosecution people in this thread make well reasoned, common sense arguments, only to be personally attacked by the pro-Zimmerman people. I didn't have an opinion on this case before today, and still really don't. But this exchange is definitely moving me in one direction.




What thread have you been reading? Since the first Zimmerman thread it's been Zimmerman's defenders acting sane and logical. Martin's defenders can only scream racism
 
2013-06-26 12:39:11 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Martin wasn't scared or running from Zimmerman. He sought out him after Zimmerman lost track of him


Speculation that does not supported by facts in evidence. It is only one possible explanation out of at least four that fit within the bounds of what is known, and one of the least likely of those possibilities.
 
2013-06-26 12:41:51 AM

CliChe Guevara: lantawa: CliChe Guevara: lantawa: Trayvon Martin was skulking in the neighborhood

define 'skulking' for us. is that just something black people do?

No, sport.  Here is the definition of skulking, exactly the kind of behavior that Trayvon Martin was exhibiting, and, basically, what got him killed

Um, I didn't see anything in that definition involving returning from a trip to the store.

please go on about this whole 'skulking' thing,  because to the rest of us, your description of 'skulking' sounds a whole lot like 'walking while black'


Stop race-baiting, clown. You know exactly what information I am relating to you. You obviously disagree with it, and I think that you are wrong in your opinions and speculations. Also about 60-70% of "the rest of us" think that you are living in a fairytale land that relates the fabulous adventures of the brave and valiant hero whose name is the  young and innocent Trayvon Martin. You've been misled, lied to, and manipulated by masterful political operatives who have catipulted this case to the forefront of the gun control issues in this nation. I mean, don't forget, if President Obama had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin!  *rolls eyes*
 
2013-06-26 12:44:14 AM
catapulted, not catipulted.....well, anyway, Caturday is coming soon......yay?
 
2013-06-26 12:47:19 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: What thread have you been reading? Since the first Zimmerman thread it's been Zimmerman's defenders acting sane and logical. Martin's defenders can only scream racism


only if you define 'logical' as referring to martin's traveling home as 'skulking' and zimmermans pursuit as 'legally observing', defining martin as a 'violent thug' or 'gangster in training', and zimmerman as 'acting within his authority' and 'protecting the neighborhood'. calling martin 'suspicious and possibly armed' when the only person known to be acting that way was zimmerman. the kid with no criminal history at all is a 'known violent criminal' while the guy with domestic abuse allegations, restraining order, and assault charges is just an upstanding citizen with a few 'misunderstandings' in his past.

sorry, but racism is pretty implicit and often explicit in almost every argument from the pro-zimmerman crowd just from the terminology used. this is why we don't pay much attention. well, that and they really like to include and exclude evidence opportunistically until the arguments have become one circular exercise in cognitive dissonance.
 
2013-06-26 12:53:55 AM

CliChe Guevara: Mid_mo_mad_man: What thread have you been reading? Since the first Zimmerman thread it's been Zimmerman's defenders acting sane and logical. Martin's defenders can only scream racism

only if you define 'logical' as referring to martin's traveling home as 'skulking' and zimmermans pursuit as 'legally observing', defining martin as a 'violent thug' or 'gangster in training', and zimmerman as 'acting within his authority' and 'protecting the neighborhood'. calling martin 'suspicious and possibly armed' when the only person known to be acting that way was zimmerman. the kid with no criminal history at all is a 'known violent criminal' while the guy with domestic abuse allegations, restraining order, and assault charges is just an upstanding citizen with a few 'misunderstandings' in his past.

sorry, but racism is pretty implicit and often explicit in almost every argument from the pro-zimmerman crowd just from the terminology used. this is why we don't pay much attention. well, that and they really like to include and exclude evidence opportunistically until the arguments have become one circular exercise in cognitive dissonance.


Well, one thing is for certain.  You are a fired up, self-righteous, emotionally invested, reality-denying racist.  Please don't involve yourself in any rioting when Zimmerman is exonerated.  Things won't go well for you....just sayin'.....
 
2013-06-26 01:05:55 AM

lantawa: CliChe Guevara: lantawa: CliChe Guevara: lantawa: Trayvon Martin was skulking in the neighborhood

define 'skulking' for us. is that just something black people do?

No, sport.  Here is the definition of skulking, exactly the kind of behavior that Trayvon Martin was exhibiting, and, basically, what got him killed

Um, I didn't see anything in that definition involving returning from a trip to the store.

please go on about this whole 'skulking' thing,  because to the rest of us, your description of 'skulking' sounds a whole lot like 'walking while black'

Stop race-baiting, clown. You know exactly what information I am relating to you. You obviously disagree with it, and I think that you are wrong in your opinions and speculations. Also about 60-70% of "the rest of us" think that you are living in a fairytale land that relates the fabulous adventures of the brave and valiant hero whose name is the  young and innocent Trayvon Martin. You've been misled, lied to, and manipulated by masterful political operatives who have catipulted this case to the forefront of the gun control issues in this nation. I mean, don't forget, if President Obama had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin!  *rolls eyes*


i am a gun owner, carry concealed, and vote conservative. even i think this guy was an unhinged asshat that used extremely poor judgement and caused the death of a kid. even if that kid made the situation worse. zimmermans poor choices made this happen in even the best light you can paint him in, an outright coward and murderer at the worst.
responsible ccw's should revel in this guy getting sent to jail.

making some gigantic liberal media/obama/jewish conspiracy thing out of it just makes you look even more unhinged than your arguments. they make no sense, so no, i don't know what you refer to as 'skulking'. walking home from the store? trying to avoid a creep obviously stalking and then actively chasing you?
 hell, what would you do if someone did the same to you at night? after following you in a car, then on foot, then running after you when you fled, you sure as hell wouldn't call what they were doing 'legally observing', and in fact at least one gun owning ITG here has already said that would be grounds for them to shoot the pursuer if the races were switched. no matter what, 'the black guy is at fault' is the only takeaway we are getting here from you guys.

 your double standards don't work, nor does your teahadist paranoia.

let me sum up what i have gotten of your 'points of view' fromthe five of you over the last few threads;
yuseeffsmother.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-06-26 01:29:55 AM

CliChe Guevara: lantawa: CliChe Guevara: lantawa: CliChe Guevara: lantawa: Trayvon Martin was skulking in the neighborhood

define 'skulking' for us. is that just something black people do?

No, sport.  Here is the definition of skulking, exactly the kind of behavior that Trayvon Martin was exhibiting, and, basically, what got him killed

Um, I didn't see anything in that definition involving returning from a trip to the store.

please go on about this whole 'skulking' thing,  because to the rest of us, your description of 'skulking' sounds a whole lot like 'walking while black'

Stop race-baiting, clown. You know exactly what information I am relating to you. You obviously disagree with it, and I think that you are wrong in your opinions and speculations. Also about 60-70% of "the rest of us" think that you are living in a fairytale land that relates the fabulous adventures of the brave and valiant hero whose name is the  young and innocent Trayvon Martin. You've been misled, lied to, and manipulated by masterful political operatives who have catipulted this case to the forefront of the gun control issues in this nation. I mean, don't forget, if President Obama had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin!  *rolls eyes*

i am a gun owner, carry concealed, and vote conservative. even i think this guy was an unhinged asshat that used extremely poor judgement and caused the death of a kid. even if that kid made the situation worse. zimmermans poor choices made this happen in even the best light you can paint him in, an outright coward and murderer at the worst.
responsible ccw's should revel in this guy getting sent to jail.

making some gigantic liberal media/obama/jewish conspiracy thing out of it just makes you look even more unhinged than your arguments. they make no sense, so no, i don't know what you refer to as 'skulking'. walking home from the store? trying to avoid a creep obviously stalking and then actively chasing you?
 hell, what would you do if someone did the same to you a ...


So.. you have an opinion which is based on no evidence or critical thought, and anyone who disagrees is a racist.  Yeah, you should totally be taken seriously.
 
2013-06-26 01:37:31 AM

CliChe Guevara: lantawa: CliChe Guevara: lantawa: CliChe Guevara: lantawa: Trayvon Martin was skulking in the neighborhood

define 'skulking' for us. is that just something black people do?

No, sport.  Here is the definition of skulking, exactly the kind of behavior that Trayvon Martin was exhibiting, and, basically, what got him killed

Um, I didn't see anything in that definition involving returning from a trip to the store.

please go on about this whole 'skulking' thing,  because to the rest of us, your description of 'skulking' sounds a whole lot like 'walking while black'

Stop race-baiting, clown. You know exactly what information I am relating to you. You obviously disagree with it, and I think that you are wrong in your opinions and speculations. Also about 60-70% of "the rest of us" think that you are living in a fairytale land that relates the fabulous adventures of the brave and valiant hero whose name is the  young and innocent Trayvon Martin. You've been misled, lied to, and manipulated by masterful political operatives who have catipulted this case to the forefront of the gun control issues in this nation. I mean, don't forget, if President Obama had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin!  *rolls eyes*

i am a gun owner, carry concealed, and vote conservative. even i think this guy was an unhinged asshat that used extremely poor judgement and caused the death of a kid. even if that kid made the situation worse. zimmermans poor choices made this happen in even the best light you can paint him in, an outright coward and murderer at the worst.
responsible ccw's should revel in this guy getting sent to jail.

making some gigantic liberal media/obama/jewish conspiracy thing out of it just makes you look even more unhinged than your arguments. they make no sense, so no, i don't know what you refer to as 'skulking'. walking home from the store? trying to avoid a creep obviously stalking and then actively chasing you?
 hell, what would you do if someone did the same to you a ...


Now I feel bad for you. You're a troll of the worst kind:  Denying your own racist dogma, you are projecting, onto the Martin/Zmmerman altercation, your own trite, ignorant, and hateful need for attention via message boards like this one.  ITG with a need to evoke fiery responses from anyone who is dumb enough to fall for your tomfoolery. And WTF is up with that picture that you posted?  Look, if you're dumb enough to go to racist websites in order to find material to reinforce your own confrontational obsession with those who are racists, then that's you're business. How about not doing the right-clicky/savey thing with racist pics like the one in the post that I am responding to.  It just makes you look terrible; like a truly mentally ill person, a person who absolutely should NOT have a CCW, a person who is filled with hatred, vindictiveness. and a person who probably skulks about because hey, after all, you're an armed and super action hero, out to rectify the wrongs of the world as you move silently through the hot and murky black night of the underworld. It's SUPER CliChe Guevera.....ARMED AND READY.....duh, duh, duh....DAAAA!

To get back on topic, just behave like you had some sense when Zimmerman, who is neither a coward or a murderer, is exonerated. And I'll attest that if he is found guilty, then I will drive on, accepting the actions of the court. It's not that big of a deal. Christ on a Cracker...........
 
2013-06-26 01:48:15 AM

lantawa: It just makes you look terrible; like a truly mentally ill person, a person who absolutely should NOT have a CCW, a person who is filled with hatred, vindictiveness. and a person who probably skulks about because hey, after all, you're an armed and super action hero, out to rectify the wrongs of the world as you move silently through the hot and murky black night of the underworld.


um, the whole post was pretty much projection, but i had to cut out the most obvious, bewildering, and ironic part.

wtf? how can you get any more perverse than describing a gun owner who thinks gz is a hotheaded irresponsible armed vigilante goon as a hotheaded irresponsible armed vigilante goon? seriously?
 
2013-06-26 02:06:41 AM

CliChe Guevara: Mid_mo_mad_man: What thread have you been reading? Since the first Zimmerman thread it's been Zimmerman's defenders acting sane and logical. Martin's defenders can only scream racism only if you define 'logical' as referring to martin's traveling home as 'skulking' and zimmermans pursuit as 'legally observing', defining martin as a 'violent thug' or 'gangster in training', and zimmerman as 'acting within his authority' and 'protecting the neighborhood'. calling martin 'suspicious and possibly armed' when the only person known to be acting that way was zimmerman. the kid with no criminal history at all is a 'known violent criminal' while the guy with domestic abuse allegations, restraining order, and assault charges is just an upstanding citizen with a few 'misunderstandings' in his past. sorry, but racism is pretty implicit and often explicit in almost every argument from the pro-zimmerman crowd just from the terminology used. this is why we don't pay much attention. well, that and they really like to include and exclude evidence opportunistically until the arguments have become one circular exercise in cognitive dissonance.

p>Thank you for proving my statement. You fell back on its racist very quickly. Martin's past of drug use and Zimmerman's past arrests are not important or admissible in this trail
 
2013-06-26 02:13:34 AM

CliChe Guevara: lantawa: It just makes you look terrible; like a truly mentally ill person, a person who absolutely should NOT have a CCW, a person who is filled with hatred, vindictiveness. and a person who probably skulks about because hey, after all, you're an armed and super action hero, out to rectify the wrongs of the world as you move silently through the hot and murky black night of the underworld.

um, the whole post was pretty much projection, but i had to cut out the most obvious, bewildering, and ironic part.

wtf? how can you get any more perverse than describing a gun owner who thinks gz is a hotheaded irresponsible armed vigilante goon as a hotheaded irresponsible armed vigilante goon? seriously?


Oh yeah. well I too have a CCW, and I own a professional office, and my Mom and Dad are  better than your Mommy and Daddy, and you suck balls and should not be allowed to have a concealed weapon.  By discussing your "weapon" carrying in a thread like this, you leave yourself open to an obvious ITG labelling of yourself, which I happily apply. Did Zimmerman f*ck up?  Yes.  did he commit second degree murder?  NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. Just because someone looks at all of the facts in this terrible situation and then comes to a different conclusion than you does not make them racist.  I have literally, factoid by factoid, imagined a comparable teenager who is white going through the same skulking behavior that Martin evidenced, and I think that ANY young man who acted the way Martin acted would have been done in, in the same manner that martin was done in. Skulking; it's not for everyone....

*No hard feelings about the Mom and Dad thing, yaknow.  I'd wager that, overall, your folks are cooler than mine. I'm tuning up the satirical verbiage now, so I want to tell you that you can comfortably read my shiat and not take it too personally. (And yes, I too have a CCW, and carry extremely competently, safely, and responsibly. Mentioning this just for you...)
 
2013-06-26 03:23:52 AM
Wow, people are splitting an awful lot of hairs about this.

Seems to me like Mr. Zimmerman went to pick a fight with a 17-year-old kid and got surprised when the kid fought back... and ended the confrontation with a gun.

Doesn't seem to matter to me what the skin colors were, though it might've made a difference to Zimmerman.
 
2013-06-26 04:28:14 AM

starsrift: Wow, people are splitting an awful lot of hairs about this.

Seems to me like Mr. Zimmerman went to pick a fight with a 17-year-old kid and got surprised when the kid fought back... and ended the confrontation with a gun.

Doesn't seem to matter to me what the skin colors were, though it might've made a difference to Zimmerman.


probably didn't matter that much to zimmerman either, and it sure doesn't matter to us, but there are a whooooooole lot of people out there defending zimmermans actions to whom the issue is entirely based on color; just look at the fox news viewer comments a few posts up.


of course, many of them will dance around the race issue, but the venn diagram of people lauding zimmermans actions, angry at the network that dropped paula deen, and eternally angry at president obama, well, they overlap pretty much 1:1.

 b-b-b-b-but its not about race. riiiiiiight.
 
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