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(CNN)   Zimmerman defense lawyer apologizes to jury for telling knock-knock joke about them in his opening statement, asks them if they've heard the one about Trayvon Martin's favorite flavor of Skittles   (cnn.com) divider line 933
    More: Dumbass, George Zimmerman, Skittles, opening statement, Mark O'Mara, Angela Corey, next of kin, Benjamin Crump, Dean Martin  
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6560 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jun 2013 at 8:15 AM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-25 07:35:32 PM
HI guys. Is this the thread where we defend the guy for stalking some kid in the dark for a half mile and then killing him?
 
2013-06-25 07:35:45 PM

Garble: kendelrio: The question isn't "Who started the confrontation?"

So it doesn't matter who started the fight.

Again, the law states:  "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

So it does matter who started the fight. 

"has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself.
Please note the law makes no distinction between aggressor and agressee(?).

So it doesn't matter who started the fight.


In this case, no, it doesn't
If it were an assault or battery case, it would matter.
 
2013-06-25 07:35:49 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Bontesla: Well, that's probably less plausible but whatever you'd like to believe...

I'd like to believe that people are charged and convicted of crimes based on facts, not speculation.


The forensic evidence is fairly ambiguous to support that alternative story. I haven't compared this interpretation with the eye witness testimony so that's where the plausibility could become less likely.
 
2013-06-25 07:35:54 PM

optimistic_cynic: Some of those lumps were interesting as many people have natural bumps like that, can even feel some on my own head with a full head of hair.  It will be interesting to hear medical testimony around those images.


Maybe they can call a phrenologist as an expert witness.
 
2013-06-25 07:38:24 PM

Yes please: optimistic_cynic: Some of those lumps were interesting as many people have natural bumps like that, can even feel some on my own head with a full head of hair.  It will be interesting to hear medical testimony around those images.

Maybe they can call a phrenologist as an expert witness.


No need, I can tell a guilty person just by looking at them. I don't need fancy skull measurin'.
 
2013-06-25 07:39:38 PM

optimistic_cynic: ChaosStar: "I shot him, and I didn't think I hit him because he sat up and said, 'Oh you got me. You got me, you got it,'" said Zimmerman during a nearly 20-minute re-enactment shot by investigators at the scene of the shooting the next day.

Ok I totally missed that.


Those were his words when he reenacted the event with police.
 
2013-06-25 07:40:56 PM

MFAWG: Again, that is the very end of a 'sequence of events' started and escalated entirely by Mr. Zimmerman.


No.
 
2013-06-25 07:42:29 PM

edmo: HI guys. Is this the thread where we defend the guy for stalking some kid in the dark for a half mile and then killing him?


No. It's not that thread.....
 
2013-06-25 07:44:00 PM

Bontesla: A very light round in the midst of an altercation. It would take a little more to exercise control over the gun given the circumstances. There's a substantial enough recoil to certainly have caused the injuries.


No, there's really not.  This isn't even debatable.  There is simply not enough energy imparted by the bullet and gasses leaving in the opposite direction to make the gun itself move with enough force to give injuries to the face as observed with Zimmerman, even if the hand let go completely.  Have you ever shot a gun?  A 9mm kicks very little, at best it would be like a mild slap to the face, even with a metal gun, it's not creating an effect as we see with Zimmerman.
 
2013-06-25 07:44:41 PM

edmo: HI guys. Is this the thread where we defend the guy for stalking some kid in the dark for a half mile and then killing him?


No, it's the thread where we wildly speculate in order to convince ourselves that a man should go to prison for a crime there's no proof he committed.
 
2013-06-25 07:46:08 PM

ChaosStar: optimistic_cynic: ChaosStar: "I shot him, and I didn't think I hit him because he sat up and said, 'Oh you got me. You got me, you got it,'" said Zimmerman during a nearly 20-minute re-enactment shot by investigators at the scene of the shooting the next day.

Ok I totally missed that.

Those were his words when he reenacted the event with police.


I know it was a chaotic situation, but I'd like to think I'd understand that I got him if he said that.
 
2013-06-25 07:46:29 PM

ChaosStar: Bontesla: I saw a plausible explanation about the facial injury being the result of firing the gun. The lacerations to the back of the head could very well be from Zimmerman's head hitting the pavement or a rock during the physical altercation.

It's not plausible at all.
Zimmerman carried a 9mm, not know for its recoil. Most people who talk about the gun hitting him are looking at Youtube videos of people firing .50 caliber handguns, mostly by underweight females or people holding the gun wrong.
Zimmerman also wouldn't have been firing in a position where the gun could hit him in the face. Imagine yourself laying on your back, someone is straddling you and leaning over you slightly. If you put your arm out like you're going to fully extend to fire the gun you will push your arm through their body.
Zimmerman had two black eyes and a closed fracture of the nose, you don't get that from a 9mm KelTec.


The bruising around the eyes could easily be attributed to the broken nose.

I've already addressed the recoil. Let me know if you have additional information to consider.

Finally, it's likely that Martin was on top of Zimmerman but that's not to say that Zimmerman was in a prone position at the time Martin was shot. Especially if Zimmerman claims that Martin tried to grab the gun while simultaneously banging his skull into the pavement. To pretend that he could both nearly have blacked out and still could remember every meticulous detail is a bit much to ask of anyone.

Let's not forget that no eye witness could see the altercation perfectly enough to identify what was exactly happening at the time the shots were fired.
 
2013-06-25 07:51:19 PM

Bontesla: Let's not forget that no eye witness could see the altercation perfectly enough to identify what was exactly happening at the time the shots were fired.


No eye witness saw the shot being fired. The closest we have is the guy who hollered at them to stop and then ran inside to call 911. By the time he makes the call, the shot had been fired.
 
2013-06-25 07:51:57 PM

Abuse Liability: Bontesla: Popcorn Johnny: Bontesla: I saw a plausible explanation about the facial injury being the result of firing the gun. The lacerations to the back of the head could very well be from Zimmerman's head hitting the pavement or a rock during the physical altercation.

Maybe aliens came down, kicked Zimmerman's ass and then shot Trayvon. Then they wiped Zimmerman's mind and planted the gun in his hand.

Well, that's probably less plausible but whatever you'd like to believe...

Occam's  razor people.  Don't  like twenty farkers have some variation of that as their handle?


Occam's Razor requires the explanation of most facts.
 
2013-06-25 07:54:33 PM
Have all the Encyclopedia Brown wannabe mother farkers figured it out yet?
 
2013-06-25 07:55:00 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Bontesla: A very light round in the midst of an altercation. It would take a little more to exercise control over the gun given the circumstances. There's a substantial enough recoil to certainly have caused the injuries.

No, there's really not.  This isn't even debatable.  There is simply not enough energy imparted by the bullet and gasses leaving in the opposite direction to make the gun itself move with enough force to give injuries to the face as observed with Zimmerman, even if the hand let go completely.  Have you ever shot a gun?  A 9mm kicks very little, at best it would be like a mild slap to the face, even with a metal gun, it's not creating an effect as we see with Zimmerman.


I'd like to introduce you to YouTube. They've got some pretty interesting recoil videos.
 
2013-06-25 07:57:29 PM

Bontesla: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Bontesla: A very light round in the midst of an altercation. It would take a little more to exercise control over the gun given the circumstances. There's a substantial enough recoil to certainly have caused the injuries.

No, there's really not.  This isn't even debatable.  There is simply not enough energy imparted by the bullet and gasses leaving in the opposite direction to make the gun itself move with enough force to give injuries to the face as observed with Zimmerman, even if the hand let go completely.  Have you ever shot a gun?  A 9mm kicks very little, at best it would be like a mild slap to the face, even with a metal gun, it's not creating an effect as we see with Zimmerman.

I'd like to introduce you to YouTube. They've got some pretty interesting recoil videos.


Really?  Let's see one that displays a 9mm and someone of Zimmerman's size.  I'll wait.

/you're thinking of 80lb girls shooting .50 cal's.
 
2013-06-25 07:57:34 PM

Bontesla: Abuse Liability: Bontesla: Popcorn Johnny: Bontesla: I saw a plausible explanation about the facial injury being the result of firing the gun. The lacerations to the back of the head could very well be from Zimmerman's head hitting the pavement or a rock during the physical altercation.

Maybe aliens came down, kicked Zimmerman's ass and then shot Trayvon. Then they wiped Zimmerman's mind and planted the gun in his hand.

Well, that's probably less plausible but whatever you'd like to believe...

Occam's  razor people.  Don't  like twenty farkers have some variation of that as their handle?

Occam's Razor requires the explanation of most facts.


We have a lot of facts. the point of occam's razor is to go with the speculation that is MOST likely
 
2013-06-25 07:57:38 PM
Bontesla:

I'd like to introduce you to YouTube. They've got some pretty interesting recoil videos.

Here is how he got the bloody nose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFJjaj7pXsA
 
2013-06-25 07:59:35 PM

optimistic_cynic: ChaosStar: optimistic_cynic: ChaosStar: "I shot him, and I didn't think I hit him because he sat up and said, 'Oh you got me. You got me, you got it,'" said Zimmerman during a nearly 20-minute re-enactment shot by investigators at the scene of the shooting the next day.

Ok I totally missed that.

Those were his words when he reenacted the event with police.

I know it was a chaotic situation, but I'd like to think I'd understand that I got him if he said that.


Adrenaline, fear, disorientation from the blows to the head, all could have just had it not process in his mind.

Bontesla: ChaosStar: Bontesla: I saw a plausible explanation about the facial injury being the result of firing the gun. The lacerations to the back of the head could very well be from Zimmerman's head hitting the pavement or a rock during the physical altercation.

It's not plausible at all.
Zimmerman carried a 9mm, not know for its recoil. Most people who talk about the gun hitting him are looking at Youtube videos of people firing .50 caliber handguns, mostly by underweight females or people holding the gun wrong.
Zimmerman also wouldn't have been firing in a position where the gun could hit him in the face. Imagine yourself laying on your back, someone is straddling you and leaning over you slightly. If you put your arm out like you're going to fully extend to fire the gun you will push your arm through their body.
Zimmerman had two black eyes and a closed fracture of the nose, you don't get that from a 9mm KelTec.

The bruising around the eyes could easily be attributed to the broken nose.

I've already addressed the recoil. Let me know if you have additional information to consider.

Finally, it's likely that Martin was on top of Zimmerman but that's not to say that Zimmerman was in a prone position at the time Martin was shot. Especially if Zimmerman claims that Martin tried to grab the gun while simultaneously banging his skull into the pavement. To pretend that he could both nearly have blacked out and still could remember every meticulous detail is a bit much to ask of anyone.

Let's not forget that no eye witness could see the altercation perfectly enough to identify what was exactly happening at the time the shots were fired.


Would you like to please explain to me how someone can be straddling someone else while they are in any other position besides prone without the use of a chair or stripper pole?
He said Martin slid his hand down his chest for the gun, that's not really grabbing at it so much as just reaching. Zimmerman was also using a very light 9mm round, recoil would have been incredibly minimal and not at all enough to cause the damage that was done to his face.
There's a reason compact submachineguns use the 9mm round a lot, and it's not for the stopping power.
 
2013-06-25 07:59:48 PM

occamswrist: Bontesla:

I'd like to introduce you to YouTube. They've got some pretty interesting recoil videos.

Here is how he got the bloody nose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFJjaj7pXsA


he just went and found exactly what you said he would.  A tiny girl with a 50 cal
 
2013-06-25 08:01:49 PM

Abuse Liability: occamswrist: Bontesla:

I'd like to introduce you to YouTube. They've got some pretty interesting recoil videos.

Here is how he got the bloody nose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFJjaj7pXsA

he just went and found exactly what you said he would.  A tiny girl with a 50 cal


Dude, I'm right here.  You don't need to talk about me in the third person...
 
2013-06-25 08:06:52 PM
Dude I'm right here is a dubious statement.  I can't see you.  For all i know you could come for the thread jack and leave.  i was actually talking to bravenewchaneyworld as he predicted this about five posts up.  Hence why I used the pronoun 'you' in reference to Brave
 
2013-06-25 08:25:30 PM

lantawa: MFAWG: Again, that is the very end of a 'sequence of events' started and escalated entirely by Mr. Zimmerman.

No.


Yup. He follows, he gets out, he advances.

That's HIS STORY. To pretend otherwise is stupid. To act like none of that matters is beyond stupid.
 
2013-06-25 08:46:25 PM

ChaosStar: optimistic_cynic: ChaosStar: It's not the "them getting the better of you" that justifies the self defense. It's the head bashing, and the going for the weapon that does.

I have to say that after seeing the photos in the trial I'm having a hard time believing that his head was being bashed on the sidewalk at the time he shot Martin.  Unless he moved Martin's body after shooting him the body was a few feet away from the sidewalk.  This isn't to say that he wasn't bashing his head on the ground and he hit a rock or it happened prior to them getting to that spot, but I was under the impression from Zimmerman's description that it was happening on the sidewalk when he decided to shoot.

Calling it a sidewalk makes people think it's beside the road.
Martin's body is about 3-5ft from the concrete pathway, depending on what part you want to reference on the body.
Having been shot, Martin probably went backwards from his knees, falling to his rump and got short of breath. Laying down before passing away.
Zimmerman said that after he fired the shot he threw himself on top of Martin to subdue him, not knowing he was dead.
The photo looked, to me, to support that the story was plausible.

The defense also pointed out lumps on Zimmerman's head in the photos that one of the scene people (I can't remember her title) agreed with.


TM's heart had about 1/5 missing. I'd dare say he was dead immediately
 
2013-06-25 08:52:27 PM

MFAWG: lantawa: MFAWG: Again, that is the very end of a 'sequence of events' started and escalated entirely by Mr. Zimmerman.

No.

Yup. He follows, he gets out, he advances.

That's HIS STORY. To pretend otherwise is stupid. To act like none of that matters is beyond stupid.


Trayvon Martin was skulking in the neighborhood, He ran from Zimmerman.  It appeared to Zimmerman that Martin ran because.he was trying to get away with a burglary.  Zimmerman attempted to keep Martin in sight in order to give law enforcement officers an opportunity to apprehend Martin  Martin escalated the scenario by doubling back, confronting Zimmerman, sucker-punching Zimmerman, breaking his nose, and Martin began to severely injure Zimmerman by pounding his head into some sort of pavement.  Fearing for his life, Zimmerman then shot Trayvon Martin. End of story. Sad story. No one happy. Not guilty of second degree murder. To pretend otherwise is stupid.  To act like none of Martin's actions matter is beyond stupid. Note to good folks:  When Zimmerman is exonerated, do not riot.  Do not act out. Do not invite further alienation from legitimate legal processes. Do not play an unplayable and untenable race card that bogusely justifies any civil misbehavior.  Not happy.  Unhappy with entire scenario, but stay cool; stay calm. Try your best to understand...
 
2013-06-25 08:59:10 PM

MFAWG: lantawa: MFAWG: Again, that is the very end of a 'sequence of events' started and escalated entirely by Mr. Zimmerman.

No.

Yup. He follows, he gets out, he advances.

That's HIS STORY. To pretend otherwise is stupid. To act like none of that matters is beyond stupid.


You remind me of a lawyer commercial from years ago.  The adjuster says the claimant is half at fault, because if they didn't get out of bed that morning this never would have happened.  You're faulting Zimmerman for not knowing that TM had a right to be in that gated community.  He was just checking on what he was up to, had TM just walked to his door and went inside, this never would have happened, but he had to get pissed off that he was being scrutinized, decided to teach Zimmerman a lesson, and got into a fight with someone who was armed.  It sucks, but that's how it is.  Zimmerman shouldn't have to pay for the fact that TM overreacted, and did so violently.

You people are sounding like abusive husbands who say a woman should know not to upset them.
 
2013-06-25 09:02:27 PM

edmo: HI guys. Is this the thread where we defend the guy for stalking some kid in the dark for a half mile and then killing him?



No, it's the thread where you prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the shooting was NOT in self-defense.

Go ahead, then.  Let's see what you've got.
 
2013-06-25 09:14:56 PM

lantawa: MFAWG: lantawa: MFAWG: Again, that is the very end of a 'sequence of events' started and escalated entirely by Mr. Zimmerman.

No.

Yup. He follows, he gets out, he advances.

That's HIS STORY. To pretend otherwise is stupid. To act like none of that matters is beyond stupid.

Trayvon Martin was skulking in the neighborhood, He ran from Zimmerman.  It appeared to Zimmerman that Martin ran because.he was trying to get away with a burglary.  Zimmerman attempted to keep Martin in sight in order to give law enforcement officers an opportunity to apprehend Martin  Martin escalated the scenario by doubling back, confronting Zimmerman, sucker-punching Zimmerman, breaking his nose, and Martin began to severely injure Zimmerman by pounding his head into some sort of pavement.  Fearing for his life, Zimmerman then shot Trayvon Martin. End of story. Sad story. No one happy. Not guilty of second degree murder. To pretend otherwise is stupid.  To act like none of Martin's actions matter is beyond stupid. Note to good folks:  When Zimmerman is exonerated, do not riot.  Do not act out. Do not invite further alienation from legitimate legal processes. Do not play an unplayable and untenable race card that bogusely justifies any civil misbehavior.  Not happy.  Unhappy with entire scenario, but stay cool; stay calm. Try your best to understand...


BraveNewCheneyWorld: MFAWG: lantawa: MFAWG: Again, that is the very end of a 'sequence of events' started and escalated entirely by Mr. Zimmerman.

No.

Yup. He follows, he gets out, he advances.

That's HIS STORY. To pretend otherwise is stupid. To act like none of that matters is beyond stupid.

You remind me of a lawyer commercial from years ago.  The adjuster says the claimant is half at fault, because if they didn't get out of bed that morning this never would have happened.  You're faulting Zimmerman for not knowing that TM had a right to be in that gated community.  He was just checking on what he was up to, had TM just walked to his door and went inside, this never would have happened, but he had to get pissed off that he was being scrutinized, decided to teach Zimmerman a lesson, and got into a fight with someone who was armed.  It sucks, but that's how it is.  Zimmerman shouldn't have to pay for the fact that TM overreacted, and did so violently.

You people are sounding like abusive husbands who say a woman should know not to upset them.


I'll give you guys persistence, Persistent, willful ignorance is the worst kind.
 
2013-06-25 09:20:40 PM

MFAWG: 'll give you guys persistence, Persistent, willful ignorance is the worst kind.


Yes. It's obvious that you are acutely aware of and involved in that phenomenon. Not happy. No winners. Behave civilly when Zimmerman is exonerated. End of story.....
 
2013-06-25 09:31:18 PM

QueenMamaBee: ChaosStar: optimistic_cynic: ChaosStar: It's not the "them getting the better of you" that justifies the self defense. It's the head bashing, and the going for the weapon that does.

I have to say that after seeing the photos in the trial I'm having a hard time believing that his head was being bashed on the sidewalk at the time he shot Martin.  Unless he moved Martin's body after shooting him the body was a few feet away from the sidewalk.  This isn't to say that he wasn't bashing his head on the ground and he hit a rock or it happened prior to them getting to that spot, but I was under the impression from Zimmerman's description that it was happening on the sidewalk when he decided to shoot.

Calling it a sidewalk makes people think it's beside the road.
Martin's body is about 3-5ft from the concrete pathway, depending on what part you want to reference on the body.
Having been shot, Martin probably went backwards from his knees, falling to his rump and got short of breath. Laying down before passing away.
Zimmerman said that after he fired the shot he threw himself on top of Martin to subdue him, not knowing he was dead.
The photo looked, to me, to support that the story was plausible.

The defense also pointed out lumps on Zimmerman's head in the photos that one of the scene people (I can't remember her title) agreed with.

TM's heart had about 1/5 missing. I'd dare say he was dead immediately


You must have very little training in biology. As long as the tissue has oxygen, he was capable of movement, albeit not for long. In our lab we do cardiac punctures and decapitations and the rats manage to keep moving for about 5-10 seconds.
 
2013-06-25 09:36:18 PM

MFAWG: BraveNewCheneyWorld: MFAWG: lantawa: MFAWG: Again, that is the very end of a 'sequence of events' started and escalated entirely by Mr. Zimmerman.

No.

Yup. He follows, he gets out, he advances.

That's HIS STORY. To pretend otherwise is stupid. To act like none of that matters is beyond stupid.

You remind me of a lawyer commercial from years ago.  The adjuster says the claimant is half at fault, because if they didn't get out of bed that morning this never would have happened.  You're faulting Zimmerman for not knowing that TM had a right to be in that gated community.  He was just checking on what he was up to, had TM just walked to his door and went inside, this never would have happened, but he had to get pissed off that he was being scrutinized, decided to teach Zimmerman a lesson, and got into a fight with someone who was armed.  It sucks, but that's how it is.  Zimmerman shouldn't have to pay for the fact that TM overreacted, and did so violently.

You people are sounding like abusive husbands who say a woman should know not to upset them.

I'll give you guys persistence, Persistent, willful ignorance is the worst kind.


Did you have anything of substance to say, or are you limited exclusively to insults and pleas to emotionalism?  Each and every one of you is judging Zimmerman with 20/20 hindsight.   Would you seriously fault someone in your neighborhood if they thought someone might be looking to rob your house (or worse) and called the cops while trying to keep an eye on them?
 
2013-06-25 09:36:22 PM

QueenMamaBee: TM's heart had about 1/5 missing. I'd dare say he was dead immediately


I'd say that GZ has his entire heart missing.

i229.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-25 09:39:47 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Zimmerman shouldn't have to pay for the fact that TM overreacted, and did so violently.


Zimmerman also overreacted.  It all started with him, and he did it far more violently than Martin did.
 
2013-06-25 09:41:51 PM

JuggleGeek: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Zimmerman shouldn't have to pay for the fact that TM overreacted, and did so violently.

Zimmerman also overreacted.  It all started with him, and he did it far more violently than Martin did.


What proof do you have?   There is nothing that contradicts the story that he was under TM, and being punched in the face, which means the self defense wasn't an overreaction, it was justified.
 
2013-06-25 09:43:53 PM

JuggleGeek: Zimmerman also overreacted.  It all started with him, and he did it far more violently than Martin did.


Oh look, more unfounded speculation from JuggleGeek.
 
2013-06-25 09:44:31 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Would you seriously fault someone in your neighborhood if they thought someone might be looking to rob your house (or worse) and called the cops while trying to keep an eye on them?


If that's all they did?  No, not at all.  But people who chase others down at night and shoot them are generally referred to as murderers or muggers or similar.  What you are describing, and what he actually did, are different.

I'm in favor of self defense, and in favor of guns.  But Martin is the one that wasn't causing any trouble.  He tried to avoid this, as witnessed by Zimmermans 911 call.  Zimmerman is the one that was acting oddly and pushing for a confrontation.  And Zimmerman is the one holding a smoking gun while standing over a dead body at the end of it all.
 
2013-06-25 09:45:59 PM

Popcorn Johnny: JuggleGeek: Zimmerman also overreacted.  It all started with him, and he did it far more violently than Martin did.

Oh look, more unfounded speculation from JuggleGeek.


What speculation?  He chased someone down at night because they had the farking gall to walk home.  We know that happened.

And he shot him, making him far more violent than anything Martin did.
 
2013-06-25 09:51:06 PM

JuggleGeek: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Would you seriously fault someone in your neighborhood if they thought someone might be looking to rob your house (or worse) and called the cops while trying to keep an eye on them?

If that's all they did?  No, not at all.  But people who chase others down at night and shoot them are generally referred to as murderers or muggers or similar.  What you are describing, and what he actually did, are different.

I'm in favor of self defense, and in favor of guns.  But Martin is the one that wasn't causing any trouble.  He tried to avoid this, as witnessed by Zimmermans 911 call.  Zimmerman is the one that was acting oddly and pushing for a confrontation.  And Zimmerman is the one holding a smoking gun while standing over a dead body at the end of it all.


As evidenced by the fact that he ran straight home when he saw the bad man chasing him, right?
 
2013-06-25 09:55:12 PM

Thoguh: As evidenced by the fact that he ran straight home when he saw the bad man chasing him, right?


Your hero called 911.  In that phone call he says "He's running" and "He ran".  That's trying to avoid the situation.  It sounds like he ran, then hid, then got found, then got shot.

I can understand why someone being followed by a nutcase for no reason may not want to lead them directly home.
 
2013-06-25 09:55:52 PM

mayIFark: stoli n coke: nekom: BeatrixK: The irony is that, Zimmerman, all 500 lbs of him, actually looks more menacing now than he did when it all went down.  His defense team is starting off like a bunch of keystone cops...

1.)  The knock knock joke,
2.)  Asserting that DNA doesn't necessarily prove much
3.)  Forgetting a point in the timeline and telling the jury, 'I'm sure you wrote it down.'

Wait, what?  The defense team is calling into question DNA???  In a case where it is 100% clear that their client in fact killed Martin?  What possible angle could they have there?


The fact that none of Zimmerman's DNA showed up on Martin's hands or fingernails. That calls into question just how brutal the alleged beating was, considering that if someone was mercilessly pummeling someone the way they claim Martin was beating Zimmerman, it's odd that they couldn't find any of Zimmerman's blood or skin on Martin.

That's why they're saying DNA tests don't matter in this case.

That is exactly my question on this case. How did a 160lb 17yo kid made a 200lb (some sort of) martial art practicing adult fear him for his life with his bare hand? If he didn't have that firearm on him, things would have been different. Just like most cases, firearm caused more harm than good, but that is one aspect I think people are not talking enough.


It clearly did more good than harm here.  It stopped someone battering a guy into the ground.
 
2013-06-25 09:58:44 PM

JuggleGeek: Popcorn Johnny: JuggleGeek: Zimmerman also overreacted.  It all started with him, and he did it far more violently than Martin did.

Oh look, more unfounded speculation from JuggleGeek.

What speculation?  He chased someone down at night because they had the farking gall to walk home.  He attempted to keep someone in sight, due to legitimate suspicion, because Martin ran when observed. Martin doubled back in order to waylay Zimmerman..MARTIN THEN BEGAN BEATING THE SHIAT OUT OF ZIMMERMAN, IN A CRIMINAL FASHION.  ZIMMERMAN THEN SHOT MARTIN, DUE TO ZIMMERMAN FEARING FOR HIS LIFE.......We know that happened.

And he shot him, making him far more violent than anything Martin did. Justified shooting. Bad story, no winners, very sad....................not giulty.....

FTFY...

 
2013-06-25 09:59:55 PM

Thoguh: JuggleGeek: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Would you seriously fault someone in your neighborhood if they thought someone might be looking to rob your house (or worse) and called the cops while trying to keep an eye on them?

If that's all they did?  No, not at all.  But people who chase others down at night and shoot them are generally referred to as murderers or muggers or similar.  What you are describing, and what he actually did, are different.

I'm in favor of self defense, and in favor of guns.  But Martin is the one that wasn't causing any trouble.  He tried to avoid this, as witnessed by Zimmermans 911 call.  Zimmerman is the one that was acting oddly and pushing for a confrontation.  And Zimmerman is the one holding a smoking gun while standing over a dead body at the end of it all.

As evidenced by the fact that he ran straight home when he saw the bad man chasing him, right?


or in the four minutes after Zimmerman gave up the chase? It's funny how you leave out all the mitigating factors. Let me try.  Hitler was a leader, he rallied his people and unified his country .  And then the US joined the war and killed a bunch of Germans... The monsters.  Yes, I know i Godwin'd the shiat out of this but that example could hold up with anything similar.  The British were minding their own business and taxing the colonies, which was completely legal, and then those uppity colonists started a war.  Last one, I promise.  The South was just minding its business slaving away in the cotton fields and decided that they didn't want the North telling them what they should be doing.  The North invaded the South and massacred southern soldiers.
 
2013-06-25 10:01:00 PM

JuggleGeek: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Would you seriously fault someone in your neighborhood if they thought someone might be looking to rob your house (or worse) and called the cops while trying to keep an eye on them?

If that's all they did?  No, not at all.  But people who chase others down at night and shoot them are generally referred to as murderers or muggers or similar.  What you are describing, and what he actually did, are different.

I'm in favor of self defense, and in favor of guns.  But Martin is the one that wasn't causing any trouble.  He tried to avoid this, as witnessed by Zimmermans 911 call.  Zimmerman is the one that was acting oddly and pushing for a confrontation.  And Zimmerman is the one holding a smoking gun while standing over a dead body at the end of it all.


So you're saying that fat GZ chased down a thin athletic teenager who's house was only a few hundred feet away, even though he was on the phone with dispatch for several minutes?  That makes perfect sense!

JuggleGeek: 'm in favor of self defense, and in favor of guns.  But Martin is the one that wasn't causing any trouble.  He tried to avoid this, as witnessed by Zimmermans 911 call.  Zimmerman is the one that was acting oddly and pushing for a confrontation.  And Zimmerman is the one holding a smoking gun while standing over a dead body at the end of it all.


The ONLY reason the 2 met again that night is because Treyvon Martin wanted to see GZ again.  He HAD to double back to confront GZ or else GZ would never have been able to catch him even if he wanted to.
 
2013-06-25 10:03:11 PM

JuggleGeek: Thoguh: As evidenced by the fact that he ran straight home when he saw the bad man chasing him, right?

Your hero called 911.  In that phone call he says "He's running" and "He ran".  That's trying to avoid the situation.  It sounds like he ran, then hid, then got found, then got shot.

I can understand why someone being followed by a nutcase for no reason may not want to lead them directly home.


Because you're so much safer inside bushes, as is your claim, than behind a locked door backed up by whatever weapons are available in the house.  Do you even hear yourself?  You make literally zero sense.
 
2013-06-25 10:06:17 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Refusing to run from a possible confrintation is now punishable by death and it is evidence that you started a confrontation?


Nah.. It's pummeling someone in the prone position that might end up with the death sentence.  I'm ok with that, simply because i don't go around pummeling people.

you speed, sometimes you get caught.  you beat people sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
 
2013-06-25 10:09:40 PM

JuggleGeek: What speculation?  He chased someone down


i53.tinypic.com
 
2013-06-25 10:10:15 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: JuggleGeek: Thoguh: As evidenced by the fact that he ran straight home when he saw the bad man chasing him, right?

Your hero called 911.  In that phone call he says "He's running" and "He ran".  That's trying to avoid the situation.  It sounds like he ran, then hid, then got found, then got shot.

I can understand why someone being followed by a nutcase for no reason may not want to lead them directly home.

Because you're so much safer inside bushes, as is your claim, than behind a locked door backed up by whatever weapons are available in the house.  Do you even hear yourself?  You make literally zero sense.


Haven't made up my mind yet but I can see where Martin may not want to lead what he could believe to be a crazy person back to the house where there was a twelve year old home alone. I go back and forth on this case but that is one point I can fully understand.
 
2013-06-25 10:13:49 PM
Just saw the picture of Trayvon laying on his back, and there isn't a drop of blood visible on his clothes. Guess that answers the question of why Zimmerman didn't have Trayvon's blood in him if he was over the top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired.
 
2013-06-25 10:17:12 PM

lantawa: Trayvon Martin was skulking in the neighborhood


define 'skulking' for us. is that just something black people do?
 
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