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(CNN)   Zimmerman defense lawyer apologizes to jury for telling knock-knock joke about them in his opening statement, asks them if they've heard the one about Trayvon Martin's favorite flavor of Skittles   (cnn.com) divider line 933
    More: Dumbass, George Zimmerman, Skittles, opening statement, Mark O'Mara, Angela Corey, next of kin, Benjamin Crump, Dean Martin  
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6583 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jun 2013 at 8:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-25 04:58:47 PM  

mayIFark: So, from my point of view: TM did nothing that he shouldn't have done. Anyone who gets chased and feel threaten by someone would want to hit back, if possible. It was possible for TM, and he did.


It always shocks me when people keep making this claim, clearly fully believing this action to be justified. I just don't get though how then, someone who was in fear for their life, would not be justified in killing said person using the same logical thought process. Can you explain that? Does having a gun on you mean that you automatically are not allowed to defend yourself? At what point are you allowed to use lethal force, in your mind? Never? Do you think that fist fights are never lethal?

I'm no gun rights advocate, quite the opposite. My brother got his jaw broken in one sucker punch and spent three weeks eating through a straw. If I had been there, and armed with a gun, I would have probably killed the person on the spot. People do stupid, terrible things to other people all the time. We call it, the real world.
 
2013-06-25 05:01:55 PM  

s2s2s2: kendelrio: Find better straw men and come back.

I think you misunderstand me. Well, I know it, but I want to be polite.

Hi!


Hi! Back. Please enlighten me. No need to be polite. I'm a big boy and can handle it. Please explain to me where I misunderstood.
 
2013-06-25 05:03:25 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: ChaosStar: This is the actual dialog between her and the prosecutor. Take from it what you will, but remember she has been caught lying already to the authorities over this so there's no telling how accurate this is.

That is not 100% accurate. At one point in the interview, she asks "you want that too?" in a manner that makes it clear that she's spinning a story she believes will best help the case. Listen to the audio recording of her interview and you'll see. It's a little disturbing that you were able to find a transcript with that omitted.


Asking that question doesn't mean that she's spinning the story. If you've never given a deposition before - it's not an unusual question. I've seen something similar in a lot of depositions.

Usually it's responded to with something like this: just tell us what you remember. If we need more information then we'll ask for it.

A good lawyer will have tried to prepare a potential witness prior to the deposition by explaining the purpose, what sort of questions to expect, and the type of answers that they're looking for.

In that context - her question could be completely reasonable.
 
2013-06-25 05:03:40 PM  
Oh, and that is **weird** how that pic aligns ....

/digression
 
2013-06-25 05:03:44 PM  
Somebody bump the record player.

It's skipping.
 
2013-06-25 05:04:04 PM  

mayIFark: ChaosStar:  do not propose any solution, but something is wrong with this scenario.

What in the hell are you talking about?
You gotta be trollin right?

If you call this trolling, then trolling. Whatever. But I am merely pointing out the fallacy of the law, if he walks free. Did TM deserved to die that day? No. Yet, he is dead. Who is responsible?

There always has to be someone responsible, be it tornado, diarrhea, a dog or a person or whatever.

And anytime a person is responsible for someone's death, there is always consequences. If GZ walks free, what is the consequence for him?


There is someone responsible and the person responsible is Martin.
He not only attacked Zimmerman, which doesn't in of itself justify lethal force, but he slammed his head into the concrete which does justify lethal force as you're meeting lethal force with lethal force.
I was referring to your incorrect assertion that Zimmerman "pulled the gun way before average person would think about that doing that", which is a blatant lie.
 
2013-06-25 05:04:29 PM  

justtray: mayIFark: So, from my point of view: TM did nothing that he shouldn't have done. Anyone who gets chased and feel threaten by someone would want to hit back, if possible. It was possible for TM, and he did.

It always shocks me when people keep making this claim, clearly fully believing this action to be justified. I just don't get though how then, someone who was in fear for their life, would not be justified in killing said person using the same logical thought process. Can you explain that? Does having a gun on you mean that you automatically are not allowed to defend yourself? At what point are you allowed to use lethal force, in your mind? Never? Do you think that fist fights are never lethal?

I'm no gun rights advocate, quite the opposite. My brother got his jaw broken in one sucker punch and spent three weeks eating through a straw. If I had been there, and armed with a gun, I would have probably killed the person on the spot. People do stupid, terrible things to other people all the time. We call it, the real world.


I can attest to this.
 
2013-06-25 05:06:15 PM  
CSB - Was walking the dog around the neighborhood - mixed level (people of various incomes from low to medium high), and I saw a large overweight white guy lecturing 2 black kids (roughly 15-16, probably high schoolers just off school nearby) as 2 of their other friends walked in different directions away from them. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, "I just want to let you know that I have a shotgun with me and you should be careful where you snoop around because I will defend my property." He seemed to be referring to the fact that they were looking into the various garages people buy to store their stuff/cars. (he was standing outside his own that was open when this happened)

Now I mention this story to show there's two sides to every story. Were the kids probably up to no good? Yeah, based on their reactions and the way they immediately split up, only two staying to listen to the guy, seems pretty guilty. Was the guy a gigantic douche in basically threatening them with the promise of having a gun nearby? Totally. But had they then attacked the guy, or stolen someone from him and he had shot them? He would likely be justified in doing so, depending on the exact situation and the state laws. Things aren't always just black and white.
 
2013-06-25 05:06:32 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: Perpetuous Procrastination

Zimmerman is a grade-A farkwit who, I hope, will never wear a badge or hold any position of legal authority.

Not much chance of that, I think.


Heh, the cynic (read: Fark user) in me immediately thought: "He'll be hired by some agency the second the trial is over!"

Sad considering that's my ultimate career choice in life...
 
2013-06-25 05:06:47 PM  

kendelrio: s2s2s2: kendelrio: Find better straw men and come back.

I think you misunderstand me. Well, I know it, but I want to be polite.

Hi!

Hi! Back. Please enlighten me. No need to be polite. I'm a big boy and can handle it. Please explain to me where I misunderstood.


I was stating that if the situation had been reversed, Martin have already been tried as an adult, and the other bit was evidence to that fact.

The setup was done for the folks that think Trayvon would have been justified in taking Zimmerman down for following him.
 
2013-06-25 05:06:50 PM  
Not to crap up the thread by actually talking about the trial or anything.  But the defense just pointed out that one of the defense witnesses (somebody who lived in the subdivision and heard noises) had "liked" a "Justice for Treyvon" page on facebook.
 
2013-06-25 05:07:29 PM  

The Muthaship: Somebody bump the record player.

It's skipping.


You've dated yourself.

/I have that on vinyl
//No, really
 
2013-06-25 05:08:24 PM  

Misconduc: I knew kids in high school that were 15-16 that could easily whip a mans ass. For example my JROTC had some bulk guys, one was a body builder who could bench easy 300lbs (not sure how much he could but his arms were bigger then my legs) that and being 6'4 - it was intimidating.
It really depends who jumps first, all that martial arts doesn't matter when you get tagged first, then its a fight to survive.

A thug isn't going to back down, I knew enough in my life time - hell just watch liveleak.com every week there's some punk who taunts cops and road rages and frankly they don't care. Put these thugs in a group of 2 or more and they will take on the world.

Not saying martin did, but everyone wants to show his 12 yr old baby face photos, how about the real photos of him - far cry different then the baby faced teenager.


   I started lifting weights several hours a day when I was 13 because my older brother used to pick on me. Combine weight training with puberty and you get some pretty outstanding results. By 17, i weighed 165 and was lifting 210 over my head ("standing press" not jumping under it), I don't remember how much I was benching. I had 2 years on the varsity wrestling team, and a year and a have in kickboxing and self defense lessons.  At the time, the only ass I couldn't kick was someone who put in more time training, or maybe someone who out weighed me by a ton.
 
2013-06-25 05:08:43 PM  

Phinn: You've dated yourself.


I don't date myself.  It's purely sexual.
 
2013-06-25 05:10:32 PM  

s2s2s2: kendelrio: s2s2s2: kendelrio: Find better straw men and come back.

I think you misunderstand me. Well, I know it, but I want to be polite.

Hi!

Hi! Back. Please enlighten me. No need to be polite. I'm a big boy and can handle it. Please explain to me where I misunderstood.

I was stating that if the situation had been reversed, Martin have already been tried as an adult, and the other bit was evidence to that fact.

The setup was done for the folks that think Trayvon would have been justified in taking Zimmerman down for following him.


Ah... You are correct. I did misinterpret your post. You were just showing facts that had it been reversed, being 17 wouldn't have made a difference and you weren't asserting TM would have used the "self-defense" claim. Gotcha.

Thanks for clearing that up!
 
2013-06-25 05:10:44 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: Thoguh: QueenMamaBee: Mid_mo_mad_man: Read the damn gf's statements to the cops. Martin WASN'T scared. It's well established. And another thing calling a 6 foot seventeen year old a kid is bs.

He might be physically intimidating, but mentally he's a kid. How many 17 year olds do you know with decent reasoning skills? Hell, with boys, it's past college before they get past the "hey y'all watch this" phase (if they ever do...)

Exactly, which is why it might make sense for him to decide he was going to beat up the strange man who was following him.  Not because he was black, or a "thug", or anything like that.  But because he was a 17 year old male.  And 17 year males make really bad decisions all the time regardless of race, color, or creed.



Bullshait. Martin was only a few months away from being old enough to vote, marry, get drafted etc. Which is more then old enough to know not to hit people and start fights.


We're not sure who started the fight.
 
2013-06-25 05:11:34 PM  

Bontesla: Popcorn Johnny: ChaosStar: This is the actual dialog between her and the prosecutor. Take from it what you will, but remember she has been caught lying already to the authorities over this so there's no telling how accurate this is.

That is not 100% accurate. At one point in the interview, she asks "you want that too?" in a manner that makes it clear that she's spinning a story she believes will best help the case. Listen to the audio recording of her interview and you'll see. It's a little disturbing that you were able to find a transcript with that omitted.

Asking that question doesn't mean that she's spinning the story. If you've never given a deposition before - it's not an unusual question. I've seen something similar in a lot of depositions.

Usually it's responded to with something like this: just tell us what you remember. If we need more information then we'll ask for it.

A good lawyer will have tried to prepare a potential witness prior to the deposition by explaining the purpose, what sort of questions to expect, and the type of answers that they're looking for.

In that context - her question could be completely reasonable.


Listen to the interview.
 
2013-06-25 05:13:29 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: ChaosStar: This is the actual dialog between her and the prosecutor. Take from it what you will, but remember she has been caught lying already to the authorities over this so there's no telling how accurate this is.

That is not 100% accurate. At one point in the interview, she asks "you want that too?" in a manner that makes it clear that she's spinning a story she believes will best help the case. Listen to the audio recording of her interview and you'll see. It's a little disturbing that you were able to find a transcript with that omitted.


More of it, picking up from where my other post left off
(DLR is prosecutor in my previous posting)
 DLR:  When you heard that noise of something hitting somebody, did you hear anything else, did you
hear the man say anything?  Did you hear any kind of screaming or anything like that?
GIRLFRIEND: No
DLR:  Did you hear any kind of shot?
GIRLFRIEND: No
DLR:  When the phone shut off, did you ever call him back?
GIRLFRIEND:   I call him back two or three times.
DLR:  Did you ever get an answer?
GIRLFRIEND: No, he didn't text me back.
DLR:  So the last thing you heard was something like somebody hitting somebody?
GIRLFRIEND: Yeah
DLR:  And ummm, when you heard that noise, somebody hitting somebody, did you hear the man
say anything, or did you hear Trayvon say anything?
GIRLFRIEND: I could hear a little bit
DLR:  Ok, what could you hear?
GIRLFRIEND: Like the headphone, like the headphone got off
DLR:  What did you hear?
GIRLFRIEND: Like a little bit get off
DLR:  Like "get off"
GIRLFRIEND: Like a little get off
DLR:  Could you tell who was saying that?
GIRLFRIEND: I couldn't tell it was Trayvon.  I could (something) Trayvon
DLR:  Let me make sure I understand you, it was trayvon saying that?
GIRLFRIEND: I could hear Trayvon that's why I was calling his name.
DLR:  He was saying what now?
GIRLFRIEND: "get off"
DLR:  get off?
DLR:  Were you clearly hearing that, or do you think you heard that?
GIRLFRIEND: I could hear it a little bit, "get off" and then the phone just hung up.
<snip>
DLR:  Ok, now let me go back, you say Trayvon told you he was in some kind of car, on the phone?
GIRLFRIEND: Yeah
DLR:  Did Trayvon ever expand on that, did he ever tell you whether the guy had gotten out of the
car?  Did he say the guy's out of the car (raises voice), "the guy's out of the car", did he ever say the
guy got out of the car?
GIRLFRIEND:  If you want that too?
DLR:  I want the truth, did he say that or not?
<snip>
DLR:  Did Trayvon ever say he was going to hit the guy?
GIRLFRIEND: (Quiet) Nah
DLR:  Did Trayvon ever say the guy was going to hit him?
GIRLFRIEND:  (hesitant) You could say that.
DLR:  No, I don't want you to guess, did he say that or not?
GIRLFRIEND: How he said it? (Asking for his lead?)
DLR:  Nah, do you understand, did he say it or not?
GIRLFRIEND: He...
DLR:  If he didn't say it, that's alright...
GIRLFRIEND: He say the man got problems
DLR:  Travon told you that?
GIRLFRIEND: Yeah, the man looking crazy.
DLR:  When did Trayvon tell you that?
GIRLFRIEND: When he was walking
DLR:  You didn't mention it earlier, that's why I asked you that.
GIRLFRIEND: Yeah, walking home to his daddy house when he say he's gonna run.
DLR:  So he says the guy looks crazy?
GIRLFRIEND: And creepy.
DLR:  Did you ask him what did he mean by that?
GIRLFRIEND: Cuz he said this dude was like watching him, and watching.
DLR:  So you were previously called by Mr. Crump, by some lawyers?
GIRLFRIEND: Yeah.
DLR:  And did you attempt, as best you could, tell them the truth too?
GIRLFRIEND: Yeah.
DLR:  About what happened.  Do you remember talking to them at all?
DLR:  Did they make you any promises or trick you in any way?
GIRLFRIEND: No (not with a lot of confidence)
DLR:  I'm not saying that they did, just want to make the record clear on that.
Crump (press conference): In fact, she couldn't even go to his wake she was so sick. Her mother had to take her to the hospital. She spent the night in the hospital. She is traumatized beyond anything you could imagine."
DLR:  Ummm, you obviously found out about what happened to Trayvon, right?
GIRLFRIEND: Yeah
DLR:  At some point you ended up knowing he was killed, right but you didn't go to the wake...why?
GIRLFRIEND: I didn't feel good.
DLR:  Did you go to the hospital or somewhere?
GIRLFRIEND: Yeah.
GIRLFRIEND: Umm blood pressure.
DLR:  Did you ever text Trayvon on the 26th
GIRLFRIEND: Yeah, when the phone hung up.
DLR:  Did he text you that day.
GIRLFRIEND: No.
DLR:  When he was at the store, he said he got some candy right?  And iced tea?
GIRLFRIEND: Yeah.
 
2013-06-25 05:14:43 PM  
Bontesla: But, to be honest, I'm not black. I know that many black parents teach their children to leave their wallets out in the open while in the car so as to avoid reaching near their belts.

I know that many black parents teach their children that running can raise suspicion so avoid running.


When I hear that Martin said he won't run but that he'll walk very fast, I'm reminded of that he could have been taught that.

I think Martin could have behaved differently to avoid his death. But I place a larger blame on Zimmerman.



I'm black and I was taught all of those things by my folks. But it was specifically about dealing with the police (and mostly what to do and not do while driving). My parents didn't really warn me about dealing with random strangers that I might encounter on the street. They probably didn't feel they had to.

Like most kids, when I was very young, I was taught about "stranger danger." But once I reached a certain age (I'd say around 12) I stopped worrying about that. Kidnapping just didn't seem like something that could happen to me anymore. I realize now that it absolutely could have...but that's not how I felt at the time. And the older I got, the more confident I was that I could handle myself. By the time I was 17? Pssh...you couldn't tell me shiat. I wasn't necessarily a baddass, but I definitely wasn't walking around worrying about my safety. And if I had encountered my own George Zimmerman...who knows? I might've felt just as indignant as Trayvon Martin did. Luckily for me, I was never put into that situation. And maybe that's why I'm able to sit here, as a 41 year old man, speculating about all this.
 
2013-06-25 05:14:54 PM  

justtray: I'm no gun rights advocate, quite the opposite. My brother got his jaw broken in one sucker punch and spent three weeks eating through a straw. If I had been there, and armed with a gun, I would have probably killed the person on the spot. People do stupid, terrible things to other people all the time. We call it, the real world.


Around 10 years ago here in NH a kid died in a Concord high school from a punch. I can't remember if it was in the face, I think it was in the chest.
 
2013-06-25 05:16:39 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: Thoguh: QueenMamaBee: Mid_mo_mad_man: Read the damn gf's statements to the cops. Martin WASN'T scared. It's well established. And another thing calling a 6 foot seventeen year old a kid is bs.

He might be physically intimidating, but mentally he's a kid. How many 17 year olds do you know with decent reasoning skills? Hell, with boys, it's past college before they get past the "hey y'all watch this" phase (if they ever do...)

Exactly, which is why it might make sense for him to decide he was going to beat up the strange man who was following him.  Not because he was black, or a "thug", or anything like that.  But because he was a 17 year old male.  And 17 year males make really bad decisions all the time regardless of race, color, or creed.

Bullshait. Martin was only a few months away from being old enough to vote, marry, get drafted etc. Which is more then old enough to know not to hit people and start fights.


And how old is Zimmerman? He is damn well old enough to know if you start running after somebody who has run away from you you setting the stage for a situation that is going to end in a confrontation.
 
2013-06-25 05:16:53 PM  

justtray: mayIFark: So, from my point of view: TM did nothing that he shouldn't have done. Anyone who gets chased and feel threaten by someone would want to hit back, if possible. It was possible for TM, and he did.

It always shocks me when people keep making this claim, clearly fully believing this action to be justified. I just don't get though how then, someone who was in fear for their life, would not be justified in killing said person using the same logical thought process. Can you explain that? Does having a gun on you mean that you automatically are not allowed to defend yourself? At what point are you allowed to use lethal force, in your mind? Never? Do you think that fist fights are never lethal?

I'm no gun rights advocate, quite the opposite. My brother got his jaw broken in one sucker punch and spent three weeks eating through a straw. If I had been there, and armed with a gun, I would have probably killed the person on the spot. People do stupid, terrible things to other people all the time. We call it, the real world.


Sometimes they are justified, and no, the person causing them to feel threatened isn't always justified in returning force to defend themselves.

You seem to have it in your mind that both parties in an altercation are somehow both legally entitled to the same protections under self-defense.* Determining who was the "victim" and who was the aggressor isn't always easy (as we can see from this case), but as the aggressor you are not entitled to self-defense protections once the victim has invoked theirs (e.g if you attack someone with a screwdriver, and they pull a gun to shoot you, you will be going to jail for murder if you kill them in return with a gun, since you initiated the attack with a weapon and they were defending themselves in return). Again, it's not apparent right now who started what based on evidence known to the public, so it's not as simple as saying "Martin felt threatened and attacked," or "Zimmerman wasn't doing a single thing threatening when Martin attacked him."

*There are very uncommon cases where both parties may be entitled to protections under self-defense, depending on the totality of circumstances and applicable state/local law, but I don't think that is the case here.
 
2013-06-25 05:17:16 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Bontesla: Popcorn Johnny: ChaosStar: This is the actual dialog between her and the prosecutor. Take from it what you will, but remember she has been caught lying already to the authorities over this so there's no telling how accurate this is.

That is not 100% accurate. At one point in the interview, she asks "you want that too?" in a manner that makes it clear that she's spinning a story she believes will best help the case. Listen to the audio recording of her interview and you'll see. It's a little disturbing that you were able to find a transcript with that omitted.

Asking that question doesn't mean that she's spinning the story. If you've never given a deposition before - it's not an unusual question. I've seen something similar in a lot of depositions.

Usually it's responded to with something like this: just tell us what you remember. If we need more information then we'll ask for it.

A good lawyer will have tried to prepare a potential witness prior to the deposition by explaining the purpose, what sort of questions to expect, and the type of answers that they're looking for.

In that context - her question could be completely reasonable.

Listen to the interview.


I can't right now but I'll do so when I get done with work.

Thanks for letting me know that there may be different connotations if it's heard.
 
2013-06-25 05:17:32 PM  

kendelrio: Thanks for clearing that up!


No problem.
 
2013-06-25 05:23:49 PM  
So what do you think of the girl who's testifying right now?  It's hilarious how the defense is tearing her apart.
 
2013-06-25 05:25:03 PM  

I Browse: Mid_mo_mad_man:

I will flat out say it. Martin deserved to die that night. He could have done countless things to stop the chain of events. He chose not and to further escalate them. Zimmerman is no saint but he didn't murder that boy.

Hindsight being 20/20, I'd say going to the store alone was his biggest mistake. I sincerely wish he'd just stayed home that evening and finished watching the game with his dad.


Perhaps in hindsight, Martin should have been armed.  At least the fight would have been a fair one.
 
2013-06-25 05:25:21 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: So what do you think of the girl who's testifying right now?  It's hilarious how the defense is tearing her apart.


She was pretty clearly in the Martin camp and trying her best to say nothing that would help the defense team at all instead of the whole truth.
 
2013-06-25 05:25:59 PM  
Is this being televised on national TV?
 
2013-06-25 05:26:04 PM  

Phinn: That's your imagination again.

I'm going to say something that may cause you to fly into a rage, but you still need to hear it -- Your imagination is not the same as reality.

Cogitate on that for a while. Let it sink in.


And you accuse me of imagining how you feel.
 
2013-06-25 05:26:23 PM  

I Browse: Bontesla: But, to be honest, I'm not black. I know that many black parents teach their children to leave their wallets out in the open while in the car so as to avoid reaching near their belts.

I know that many black parents teach their children that running can raise suspicion so avoid running.

When I hear that Martin said he won't run but that he'll walk very fast, I'm reminded of that he could have been taught that.

I think Martin could have behaved differently to avoid his death. But I place a larger blame on Zimmerman.


I'm black and I was taught all of those things by my folks. But it was specifically about dealing with the police (and mostly what to do and not do while driving). My parents didn't really warn me about dealing with random strangers that I might encounter on the street. They probably didn't feel they had to.

Like most kids, when I was very young, I was taught about "stranger danger." But once I reached a certain age (I'd say around 12) I stopped worrying about that. Kidnapping just didn't seem like something that could happen to me anymore. I realize now that it absolutely could have...but that's not how I felt at the time. And the older I got, the more confident I was that I could handle myself. By the time I was 17? Pssh...you couldn't tell me shiat. I wasn't necessarily a baddass, but I definitely wasn't walking around worrying about my safety. And if I had encountered my own George Zimmerman...who knows? I might've felt just as indignant as Trayvon Martin did. Luckily for me, I was never put into that situation. And maybe that's why I'm able to sit here, as a 41 year old man, speculating about all this.


Thank you for shedding some light. As a very tiny white girl - I was taught very different things because my parent had very different fears (rape being at the top of the list). Leaving my wallet out was never something I had to consider for my personal safety. In fact - I was discouraged because a wallet implied that I possessed something worth stealing.
 
2013-06-25 05:26:43 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: So what do you think of the girl who's testifying right now?  It's hilarious how the defense is tearing her apart.


That how stupid was the persecution to not remind her that the defense would probably check her Facebook page.
 
2013-06-25 05:27:42 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: So what do you think of the girl who's testifying right now?  It's hilarious how the defense is tearing her apart.


Was it the short haired blonde pixie?
 
2013-06-25 05:28:25 PM  

I Browse: Bontesla: But, to be honest, I'm not black. I know that many black parents teach their children to leave their wallets out in the open while in the car so as to avoid reaching near their belts.

I know that many black parents teach their children that running can raise suspicion so avoid running.

When I hear that Martin said he won't run but that he'll walk very fast, I'm reminded of that he could have been taught that.

I think Martin could have behaved differently to avoid his death. But I place a larger blame on Zimmerman.


I'm black and I was taught all of those things by my folks. But it was specifically about dealing with the police (and mostly what to do and not do while driving). My parents didn't really warn me about dealing with random strangers that I might encounter on the street. They probably didn't feel they had to.

Like most kids, when I was very young, I was taught about "stranger danger." But once I reached a certain age (I'd say around 12) I stopped worrying about that. Kidnapping just didn't seem like something that could happen to me anymore. I realize now that it absolutely could have...but that's not how I felt at the time. And the older I got, the more confident I was that I could handle myself. By the time I was 17? Pssh...you couldn't tell me shiat. I wasn't necessarily a baddass, but I definitely wasn't walking around worrying about my safety. And if I had encountered my own George Zimmerman...who knows? I might've felt just as indignant as Trayvon Martin did. Luckily for me, I was never put into that situation. And maybe that's why I'm able to sit here, as a 41 year old man, speculating about all this.


Wow.  I heard a fascinating segment on NPR on that very thing, advice black kids specifically get from their parents on how to, for lack of a better phrase "deal with being black here", but I had no idea it was so wide-spread.  They talked about things like never running with hands in your pocket, and other things like that.  I'm sorry you have to live in a country where black parents feel the need to tell their children this, but well, I'd imagine if I were black I'd teach my kid the very same.  Just because a situation is an injustice doesn't mean that it isn't reality.
 
2013-06-25 05:28:34 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: Thoguh: QueenMamaBee: Mid_mo_mad_man: Read the damn gf's statements to the cops. Martin WASN'T scared. It's well established. And another thing calling a 6 foot seventeen year old a kid is bs.

He might be physically intimidating, but mentally he's a kid. How many 17 year olds do you know with decent reasoning skills? Hell, with boys, it's past college before they get past the "hey y'all watch this" phase (if they ever do...)

Exactly, which is why it might make sense for him to decide he was going to beat up the strange man who was following him.  Not because he was black, or a "thug", or anything like that.  But because he was a 17 year old male.  And 17 year males make really bad decisions all the time regardless of race, color, or creed.

Bullshait. Martin was only a few months away from being old enough to vote, marry, get drafted etc. Which is more then old enough to know not to hit people and start fights.


What about being old enough that you're not supposed to play make believe police officer?
 
2013-06-25 05:29:26 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Is this being televised on national TV?


web stream, although they have gone into recess for the evening.
 
2013-06-25 05:30:42 PM  
So this witness who just finished on the stand came into court with new information that they had never mentioned prior to this and they also signed a Change.org petition asking for the prosecution of Zimmerman?

So, when does she get charged with perjury?
 
2013-06-25 05:31:27 PM  

s2s2s2: MagSeven: I'm no criminal mastermind, but I would think 7pm would be a very poor time to be casing houses. People are usually home and awake around that time.

"speculation" "misleading"


I'm supposed to read the last sentence? Ain't nobody got time for that!
 
2013-06-25 05:31:52 PM  

Perpetuous Procrastination: Facetious_Speciest: Perpetuous Procrastination

Zimmerman is a grade-A farkwit who, I hope, will never wear a badge or hold any position of legal authority.

Not much chance of that, I think.

Heh, the cynic (read: Fark user) in me immediately thought: "He'll be hired by some agency the second the trial is over!"

Sad considering that's my ultimate career choice in life...


There are worse choices.  Still, at least we can be reasonably sure there won't be a Zimmerman sex tape.
 
2013-06-25 05:32:24 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: So this witness who just finished on the stand came into court with new information that they had never mentioned prior to this and they also signed a Change.org petition asking for the prosecution of Zimmerman?

So, when does she get charged with perjury?


Let's have some real fun.  Suborning perjury charges against the prosecutors.
 
2013-06-25 05:33:49 PM  

Thoguh: BraveNewCheneyWorld: So what do you think of the girl who's testifying right now?  It's hilarious how the defense is tearing her apart.

That how stupid was the persecution to not remind her that the defense would probably check her Facebook page.


My only thought is that the Prosecution must want her impeached or disarmed as a witness. I'd definitely neutralize a witness if I thought they could help the other side.

I'm not sure if that's what's happening.

Aside from discrediting the witness, how is the defense coming across with this witness? They could lose favor with the jury if the defense comes across as a bully.
 
2013-06-25 05:34:48 PM  
gimmegimme:

Perhaps in hindsight, Martin should have been armed.  At least the fight would have been a fair one.


Can't lie...I've thought the same thing. And maybe that's where we are unavoidably headed...a society where being armed is the norm, not the exception.

I've avoided guns my entire life. But this case (and others) have me re-thinking my feelings about guns.
 
2013-06-25 05:37:25 PM  

nekom: I Browse: Bontesla: But, to be honest, I'm not black. I know that many black parents teach their children to leave their wallets out in the open while in the car so as to avoid reaching near their belts.

I know that many black parents teach their children that running can raise suspicion so avoid running.

When I hear that Martin said he won't run but that he'll walk very fast, I'm reminded of that he could have been taught that.

I think Martin could have behaved differently to avoid his death. But I place a larger blame on Zimmerman.


I'm black and I was taught all of those things by my folks. But it was specifically about dealing with the police (and mostly what to do and not do while driving). My parents didn't really warn me about dealing with random strangers that I might encounter on the street. They probably didn't feel they had to.

Like most kids, when I was very young, I was taught about "stranger danger." But once I reached a certain age (I'd say around 12) I stopped worrying about that. Kidnapping just didn't seem like something that could happen to me anymore. I realize now that it absolutely could have...but that's not how I felt at the time. And the older I got, the more confident I was that I could handle myself. By the time I was 17? Pssh...you couldn't tell me shiat. I wasn't necessarily a baddass, but I definitely wasn't walking around worrying about my safety. And if I had encountered my own George Zimmerman...who knows? I might've felt just as indignant as Trayvon Martin did. Luckily for me, I was never put into that situation. And maybe that's why I'm able to sit here, as a 41 year old man, speculating about all this.

Wow.  I heard a fascinating segment on NPR on that very thing, advice black kids specifically get from their parents on how to, for lack of a better phrase "deal with being black here", but I had no idea it was so wide-spread.  They talked about things like never running with hands in your pocket, and other things like that.  I'm sorry you have to live in a country where black parents feel the need to tell their children this, but well, I'd imagine if I were black I'd teach my kid the very same.  Just because a situation is an injustice doesn't mean that it isn't reality.


Black Like Me is a phenomenal book about trying to understand the life of a black man from the perspective of a white man. It's slightly dated but still worth the read.

I've taken many things for granted. The fact that everyone finds me innocent by default is one.
 
2013-06-25 05:38:19 PM  
i.huffpost.com

Oh so this is the witness. She's adding testimony and signing petitions for prosecuting Zimmerman. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.
 
2013-06-25 05:38:32 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: So this witness who just finished on the stand came into court with new information that they had never mentioned prior to this and they also signed a Change.org petition asking for the prosecution of Zimmerman?

So, when does she get charged with perjury?


Details! What information?
 
2013-06-25 05:40:17 PM  

Thoguh: Not to crap up the thread by actually talking about the trial or anything.  But the defense just pointed out that one of the defense witnesses (somebody who lived in the subdivision and heard noises) had "liked" a "Justice for Treyvon" page on facebook.


I heard that the defense star witness shot dead a black kid.
 
2013-06-25 05:40:46 PM  

I Browse: gimmegimme:

Perhaps in hindsight, Martin should have been armed.  At least the fight would have been a fair one.


Can't lie...I've thought the same thing. And maybe that's where we are unavoidably headed...a society where being armed is the norm, not the exception.

I've avoided guns my entire life. But this case (and others) have me re-thinking my feelings about guns.


They're a source of great fun, friendship, and learning that come with a huge responsibility.
I highly recommend finding your local range and asking about a safety course to dip your toes in the water.
 
2013-06-25 05:40:58 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: [i.huffpost.com image 300x219]

Oh so this is the witness. She's adding testimony and signing petitions for prosecuting Zimmerman. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.


What do you mean?
 
2013-06-25 05:41:36 PM  
You know what he means.
 
2013-06-25 05:42:11 PM  

Bontesla: Thoguh: BraveNewCheneyWorld: So what do you think of the girl who's testifying right now?  It's hilarious how the defense is tearing her apart.

That how stupid was the persecution to not remind her that the defense would probably check her Facebook page.

My only thought is that the Prosecution must want her impeached or disarmed as a witness. I'd definitely neutralize a witness if I thought they could help the other side.

I'm not sure if that's what's happening.

Aside from discrediting the witness, how is the defense coming across with this witness? They could lose favor with the jury if the defense comes across as a bully.


Wasn't she a witness for the persecution? Why not just not leave her out?
 
2013-06-25 05:42:19 PM  

Bontesla: Details! What information?


Something about hearing a commotion moving from left to right past her window. Something she never mentioned during any other interviews, but suddenly brought up in court today. The defense asked her to point out in her earlier statement to investigators where she mentioned it and she got a blank look on her face.

She also liked a "justice for Trayvon" page on Facebook.
 
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