If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CNN)   Zimmerman defense lawyer apologizes to jury for telling knock-knock joke about them in his opening statement, asks them if they've heard the one about Trayvon Martin's favorite flavor of Skittles   (cnn.com) divider line 933
    More: Dumbass, George Zimmerman, Skittles, opening statement, Mark O'Mara, Angela Corey, next of kin, Benjamin Crump, Dean Martin  
•       •       •

6560 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jun 2013 at 8:15 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



933 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-06-25 11:41:42 AM

bugontherug: This last proves Zimmerman had no intention of getting back into his car. His intention was to defy the dispatcher's suggestion, and hunt down Trayvon.


No, that is just one interpretation.  Here's another:  He didn't want to give away to anyone listening where he would be located while waiting for the police to arrive.   Read the call transcript.  He changed his mind about meeting at the mailboxes immediately after saying he is concerned that Martin might still be in earshot.  He said that is why he didn't want to give his address, and within the flow of that conversation also makes sense as the reason why he didn't want to reveal where he would be waiting.
 
2013-06-25 11:42:45 AM

bugontherug: ChaosStar: You either need glasses, have selective blindness, or you're just a whole new brand of stupid.

You need a momma to teach you that it's wrong to call people names. Worse, it undermines your own credibility. It proves you're too emotionally invested in the subject to view it rationally. I doubt you she even taught you to apologize when you lose your temper and make a fool of yourself like that.

Look,

Blood doesn't turn that color fool.

Sure it does. And the image is distorted anyway.

His head was striking concrete, not rubbing against sandpaper. The scrapes and bruising isn't what justifies the deadly force, it's the striking of the head on the hard surface. This can lead to brain trauma and death very easily, which is certainly life threatening enough to worry about.

Right... all this "head striking" which you say can lead to brain trauma "very easily"didn't even leave a concussion. This head bashing Zimmerman described either didn't happen (maybe he got an owie when he fell backwards after Trayvon decked him for manhandling him), or was grossly exaggerated.

Zimmerman wouldn't need to lie or exaggerate if the facts supported him. So we know they don't support him, that he knows they don't, that he's conscious of his own wrongdoing, and therefore guilty.


I have a momma who taught me not to suffer imbeciles.
No, blood really doesn't turn that color, and no the image is not distorted in any way to change colors. Quit lying.
Notice I said, in bold above, CAN LEAD to brain trauma. The fact that this CAN LEAD to brain trauma, which is potentially lethal, is justifiable reasoning for deadly force. To illustrate my point, stabbing someone can lead to their death, so should the person actually have to wait until they are lethally stabbed in order to defend themselves? The law clearly says no, they shouldn't.

The fat do support him here in reality, in whatever fantasyland you're in ymmv.
 
2013-06-25 11:43:54 AM

Theburner: What I want to know is....  What caliber and what handgun is able to produce a single shot fatality? Shouldn't we be ensuring the police are then armed with the same combination?
Seems the only people the police are able to kill with a single shot are innocent bystanders.


In theory, a BB gun is capable of killing.  It would have to be a VERY lucky shot.  But any of the common handgun calibers on the market are capable of producing a fatal chest wound.  Hit the wrong artery and he's a dead man.
 
2013-06-25 11:44:56 AM

ChaosStar: The fat do support him here in reality, in whatever fantasyland you're in ymmv.


Wait, what?
 
2013-06-25 11:45:41 AM
Nekom - What NONE of use know AT ALL is exactly how the confrontation started.

True!  All those insisting that Martin "backtracked" after Zimmerman broke off the chase, etc have made
me think that, at some point, when he might have been going to his Father's house, this happened:

"why are you following me?"
"who are you?"
"Martin - why are you following me?"
"I saw you - you don't live here - what are you doing? I've called the cops, you just stay right here"

etc -

THis is my theory on what happened during the "missing" time and "the initial confrontation"
THe idea Martin "hid, circled back and attacked" just doesn't seem plausible
 
2013-06-25 11:47:42 AM

ChaosStar: Bontesla: A trial is more expensive than a SYG pretrial hearing. So that's incorrect. Further, Zimmerman could have certainly used the SYG defense. He wavied his right. If he were ineligible then there would have been no need for him to officially waive that immunity defense. Finally, do you realize how low the burden is to successfully seek immunity? It's ridiculous.

That's why when Zimmerman opted for a self-defense plea without seeing immunity under SYG - a lot of legal analysts became excited. Tons of analysis. It created a lot of interest. By most accounts - this was his ticket out.

He would have had the trial anyway, so the SYG hearing would have been added cost. So no, it's not incorrect.
No, he could not have have used the SYG as his duty to retreat was already removed via being pinned under Martin, so SYG doesn't apply.
He still has the right to a SYG hearing if he wants one, but his legal team knew it would be money spent for no reason and they opted not to do it to save money as it would have just resulted in a trial anyway.

That's why he opted for trial by jury, with a self defense please. The plea would have been self defense even in a SYG hearing, since you can't have SYG without self defense.


He would have only had the trial IF he lost the immunity hearing for a SYG defense. And since he was eligible for the hearing, the question is why did he opt out?

He seriously considered using it and waited until the last minute to waive the hearing.

Seriously, this was a huge story. How did you miss it? I have a friend that teaches law - several professors at a variety of schools were going to use this in one of their discussions. Legal blogs lit up.
 
2013-06-25 11:48:01 AM

bugontherug: ChaosStar: So your only point is that there were continued noises (which were wind btw) after he was told he didn't need to follow Martin. So even if it was the noise of him moving, you have no evidence which way he was moving but you somehow know that means he continue to look for Martin.

Zimmerman told the dispatcher to have the officers call him so he would not reveal his destination to Martin, if Martin was till around. This is perfectly backed up by his expressed reluctance to give out his address because he "doesn't know where this kid is" immediately prior. It certainly doesn't prove his travel intentions.

This doesn't make even the slightest sense. He thinks Trayvon is within ear shot--so he doesn't want to reveal that his destination is his car, only a few feet away? And why couldn't he have just cupped his hand over the receiver and talked quietly? Just. Not. Logical.

Listen to yourself. You're making up excuses--anything--to justify the narrative that George Zimmerman did anything other than hunt down and murder an unarmed minor.

Zimmerman planned to continue to hunt Trayvon, in defiance of the dispatcher's suggestion. He planned to, and he did so. He had no intention of returning to his car, because he was committed to confronting Trayvon. He did so, and then he started a fight with him, and then he murdered him.


Why couldn't he turn into a bird and fly away?
Why couldn't he teleport back to his truck?
Why couldn't he call in the first Marine recon division to extract him from the situation?
Why couldn't he this?
Why couldn't he that?
Hindsight's 20/20, ever heard that expression?

He doesn't know where Martin is, so he covers his bases.
Based on your idiot logic, why wouldn't he announce as loud as he could where he was going to make Martin think he was leaving so he could continue "hunting" him?
 
2013-06-25 11:48:08 AM

Popcorn Johnny: If a guy was attempting to bash your head into the concrete, wouldn't you be doing everything possible to counter the downward force?


Yes. I've said this in not so many words in several threads already. Which is why I've always argued Zimmerman's head was never bashed. Absent a great difference in strength, "bashing" a resisting person's head against concrete--especially a person with no hair to grasp onto--is all but impossible. Zimmerman's head was never "bashed." Not even once. His whole narrative comes from TV cop shows and racist stereotypes. It's not plausible, except to people who think they live in an action movie.

The fact that his head hitting the sidewalk only caused minor injuries doesn't mean the next one couldn't have led to a serious injury.

If he was resisting, his head was never "bashed" in the first place. Maybe it was pressed, because Trayvon was trying to pin his head to the ground to temporarily disable his lethally armed assailant. And no, having one's head pressed into the ground does not put one in fear of death or great bodily harm.

Though if you think you're some kind of an authority figure with a right to detain young black kids for no good reason, it does grievously bruise the ego. These wounds to Zimmerman's pride do not justify the use of lethal force.
 
2013-06-25 11:49:54 AM
Bontesla:
He would have only had the trial IF he lost the immunity hearing for a SYG defense. And since he was eligible for the hearing, the question is why did he opt out?

He seriously considered using it and waited until the last minute to waive the hearing.

Seriously, this was a huge story. How did you miss it? I have a friend that teaches law - several professors at a variety of schools were going to use this in one of their discussions. Legal blogs lit up.


Someone suggest this in the last thread, can't recall who, but maybe he's hoping to get acquitted, THEN have an SYG hearing to protect himself from the wrongful death case that is certainly coming, and let's face it, he could well lose.  If SYG can really work that way (I know it protects against litigation, I don't know if you can turn down a hearing now and ask for one later), it's not a bad idea, from where he stands now.  Then he might be able to use his acquittal as evidence in the SYG hearing.
 
2013-06-25 11:50:24 AM

Ricardo Klement: ChaosStar: The fat do support him here in reality, in whatever fantasyland you're in ymmv.

Wait, what?


Freudian slip, Zimmerman's gained a few pounds afterall..
 
2013-06-25 11:53:05 AM
 
2013-06-25 11:53:30 AM

Ricardo Klement: positronica: So far no evidence has been presented that GZ continued to follow Martin after the 911 dispatcher said he didn't have to.

Doesn't the location of the incident, which was closer to Martin's house than when Zim got off the phone, count as evidence that Zimmerman continued his pursuit?


I don't know if that's been established to be the case.  We do know that GZ attempted to follow Martin for a minimum of 11 to 15 seconds before responding with "Ok" to the dispatcher's advice not to follow Martin.  The distance between GZ's truck and where the physical altercation occurred is well within jogging distance based on that amount of time, plus based on the layout of the apartment complex, depending on which way GZ ran during those 11 to 15 seconds, the site of the altercation would have been on a possible return route to his vehicle.  For example, if GZ ran to the south and then cut east, thinking that that was the route Martin took, but Martin had instead gone around the north side of the adjacent building, then the second encounter between the two men was just dumb luck.
 
2013-06-25 11:54:21 AM

The Muthaship: bugontherug: Zimmerman planned to continue to hunt Trayvon, in defiance of the dispatcher's suggestion. He planned to, and he did so. He had no intention of returning to his car, because he was committed to confronting Trayvon. He did so, and then he started a fight with him, and then he murdered him.

Could you at least add "IMO" to the end of that?


In my opinion, supported by evidence proving these facts beyond a reasonable doubt.

Given Zimmerman's openly displayed hostility, his unfounded belief in Trayvon's criminality, his lethal armament, and his demonstrated willingness to confront (proved when he tried to chase Trayvon, whether or not you believe he continued to do so), versus the unarmed Martin's lawful course of conduct and complete absence of any motive to start a fight, the only reason--the only one--anyone believes he started the fight is because he's a young black male. Between two whites, or two blacks, "who started the fight" wouldn't even be a question here. Even less so if a black man had demonstrated Zimmerman's course of conduct against a white man.
 
2013-06-25 11:55:15 AM

Bontesla: ChaosStar: Bontesla: A trial is more expensive than a SYG pretrial hearing. So that's incorrect. Further, Zimmerman could have certainly used the SYG defense. He wavied his right. If he were ineligible then there would have been no need for him to officially waive that immunity defense. Finally, do you realize how low the burden is to successfully seek immunity? It's ridiculous.

That's why when Zimmerman opted for a self-defense plea without seeing immunity under SYG - a lot of legal analysts became excited. Tons of analysis. It created a lot of interest. By most accounts - this was his ticket out.

He would have had the trial anyway, so the SYG hearing would have been added cost. So no, it's not incorrect.
No, he could not have have used the SYG as his duty to retreat was already removed via being pinned under Martin, so SYG doesn't apply.
He still has the right to a SYG hearing if he wants one, but his legal team knew it would be money spent for no reason and they opted not to do it to save money as it would have just resulted in a trial anyway.

That's why he opted for trial by jury, with a self defense please. The plea would have been self defense even in a SYG hearing, since you can't have SYG without self defense.

He would have only had the trial IF he lost the immunity hearing for a SYG defense. And since he was eligible for the hearing, the question is why did he opt out?

He seriously considered using it and waited until the last minute to waive the hearing.

Seriously, this was a huge story. How did you miss it? I have a friend that teaches law - several professors at a variety of schools were going to use this in one of their discussions. Legal blogs lit up.


I just told you why he opted out.
Zimmerman team: Judge, we're claiming SYG
Judge: SYG doesn't apply, he had no duty to retreat anyway
ZT: We know, but we wanted the hearing anyway cause we like cash
Judge: Ok, no SYG, we go to trial
ZT: George here's your bill, we'll invoice you for the next part when the trial is done.

Get it?
 
2013-06-25 11:59:28 AM

bugontherug: The Muthaship: bugontherug: Zimmerman planned to continue to hunt Trayvon, in defiance of the dispatcher's suggestion. He planned to, and he did so. He had no intention of returning to his car, because he was committed to confronting Trayvon. He did so, and then he started a fight with him, and then he murdered him.

Could you at least add "IMO" to the end of that?

In my opinion, supported by evidence proving these facts beyond a reasonable doubt.

Given Zimmerman's openly displayed hostility, his unfounded belief in Trayvon's criminality, his lethal armament, and his demonstrated willingness to confront (proved when he tried to chase Trayvon, whether or not you believe he continued to do so), versus the unarmed Martin's lawful course of conduct and complete absence of any motive to start a fight, the only reason--the only one--anyone believes he started the fight is because he's a young black male. Between two whites, or two blacks, "who started the fight" wouldn't even be a question here. Even less so if a black man had demonstrated Zimmerman's course of conduct against a white man.


Or because he said he refused to run while on the phone with his lady?
Wait, that would be two reasons. Reality... not conforming... to my...preconceived notions...must pull more emotional outrage from the void
 
2013-06-25 11:59:54 AM

bugontherug: Yes. I've said this in not so many words in several threads already. Which is why I've always argued Zimmerman's head was never bashed. Absent a great difference in strength, "bashing" a resisting person's head against concrete--especially a person with no hair to grasp onto--is all but impossible. Zimmerman's head was never "bashed." Not even once. His whole narrative comes from TV cop shows and racist stereotypes. It's not plausible, except to people who think they live in an action movie.


I've hit my head so hard before that it came very close to knocking me out. I didn't suffer any cuts or a concussion as a result. You have no idea how hard his head stuck the pavement and are making a ridiculous assumption that it couldn't have been that hard if he didn't suffer any injuries other than a couple of lacerations.
 
2013-06-25 12:01:53 PM

Ricardo Klement: positronica: So far no evidence has been presented that GZ continued to follow Martin after the 911 dispatcher said he didn't have to.

Doesn't the location of the incident, which was closer to Martin's house than when Zim got off the phone, count as evidence that Zimmerman continued his pursuit?


bcclist.files.wordpress.com

Fairly good map with timings. You can see that Martin's residence is further away than Zimmernan's truck.
 
2013-06-25 12:02:42 PM
ChaosStar:

Why couldn't he turn into a bird and fly away?
Why couldn't he teleport back to his truck?
Why couldn't he call in the first Marine recon division to extract him from the situation?


Terrific point. Because all of this is exactly as plausible as cupping your hand over a telephone receiver and talking quietly. Why didn't I think of that? Thanks for setting me straight on this point.

Based on your idiot logic,

Look, I can see you're too emotionally invested in this case to discuss it like an adult. It also doesn't seem like you're having fun anymore. So go have yourself a nice glass of warm milk, take a few deep breaths. Then, if you still want to, prove you're ready to rejoin the adult table by coming back and apologizing like a big boy.

Mkay?
 
2013-06-25 12:02:50 PM

s2s2s2: I don't know, tho, guys. I gotta say; looking in Zimmerman's eyes, a surprise confession of a panic shooting, not an actual "it was clear my life was in danger, so I had to shoot" thought that lead to a lethal action.


...wouldn't be that surprising.

/derpt
 
2013-06-25 12:03:16 PM

bugontherug: The Muthaship: bugontherug: Zimmerman planned to continue to hunt Trayvon, in defiance of the dispatcher's suggestion. He planned to, and he did so. He had no intention of returning to his car, because he was committed to confronting Trayvon. He did so, and then he started a fight with him, and then he murdered him.

Could you at least add "IMO" to the end of that?

In my opinion, supported by evidence proving these facts beyond a reasonable doubt.

Given Zimmerman's openly displayed hostility, his unfounded belief in Trayvon's criminality, his lethal armament, and his demonstrated willingness to confront (proved when he tried to chase Trayvon, whether or not you believe he continued to do so), versus the unarmed Martin's lawful course of conduct and complete absence of any motive to start a fight, the only reason--the only one--anyone believes he started the fight is because he's a young black male. Between two whites, or two blacks, "who started the fight" wouldn't even be a question here. Even less so if a black man had demonstrated Zimmerman's course of conduct against a white man.


There is NO WAY IN HELL any of that proves anything beyond a reasonable doubt.  All of that might fly in civil court, but that's a whole lot of hearsay and conjecture, which are KINDS of evidence, but that doesn't even come close to enough to convict for murder.
 
2013-06-25 12:04:59 PM

Popcorn Johnny: I've hit my head so hard before that it came very close to knocking me out. I didn't suffer any cuts or a concussion as a result. You have no idea how hard his head stuck the pavement and are making a ridiculous assumption that it couldn't have been that hard if he didn't suffer any injuries other than a couple of lacerations.


In that case, you have no idea either. Or even that his head hit the pavement at all. If we can't reason from the medical evidence, we're left with Zimmerman's word. And his word means nothing.
 
2013-06-25 12:05:20 PM

Theburner: What I want to know is....  What caliber and what handgun is able to produce a single shot fatality? Shouldn't we be ensuring the police are then armed with the same combination?
Seems the only people the police are able to kill with a single shot are innocent bystanders.


He used a Kel-Tec 9mm handgun with Sellier & Bellot 115gr jacketed hollow-point rounds. He fired one shot that hit TM in the right ventricle of his heart. It'd be hard to miss if you're being straddled. At that distance, a tiny little .22 caliber handgun probably would have been just as fatal.

Thoguh: What feed would you recommend?


If you go to this link, you will see a feed supplied by a local news outlet with commentary, a twitter feed, and a commentary free feed by NBC News at the bottom.
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-live-video-day- 2- opening-statements/
 
2013-06-25 12:05:43 PM

bugontherug: Given Zimmerman's openly displayed hostility, his unfounded belief in Trayvon's criminality,


He's a neighborhood watch volunteer.

bugontherug: his lethal armament,


Which was legally issued.

bugontherug: and his demonstrated willingness to confront (proved when he tried to chase Trayvon, whether or not you believe he continued to do so),


There's no evidence that he was responsible for anything more than trying to keep an eye on Treyvon's location while he waited for the police, who he called for assistance before any of this went down.  And we all know that vigilantes are well known for calling the police...

bugontherug: versus the unarmed Martin's lawful course of conduct and complete absence of any motive to start a fight,


Apparently, an overweight Zimmerman was able to overshoot Treyvon Martin on his route home after only 10 seconds of running, and got so far ahead that he was able to stay on the phone for an extended period of time with dispatch, which clocks Zimmerman's sprint at about 150mph.  Treyvon certainly didn't double back to give someone an asskicking for daring to suspect that he, a stranger in a gated community might be a burglar.

bugontherug: the only reason--the only one--anyone believes he started the fight is because he's a young black male. Between two whites, or two blacks, "who started the fight" wouldn't even be a question here. Even less so if a black man had demonstrated Zimmerman's course of conduct against a white man.


Ah, "anyone who believes Zimmerman is a racist". Facts are certainly not on your side, so you're going with the race card.
 
2013-06-25 12:06:38 PM

ChaosStar: Ricardo Klement: positronica: So far no evidence has been presented that GZ continued to follow Martin after the 911 dispatcher said he didn't have to.

Doesn't the location of the incident, which was closer to Martin's house than when Zim got off the phone, count as evidence that Zimmerman continued his pursuit?

[bcclist.files.wordpress.com image 850x450]

Fairly good map with timings. You can see that Martin's residence is further away than Zimmernan's truck.



1:28-1:30 seems to be of specific interest.
 
2013-06-25 12:07:04 PM

Abuse Liability: bugontherug: The Muthaship: bugontherug: Zimmerman planned to continue to hunt Trayvon, in defiance of the dispatcher's suggestion. He planned to, and he did so. He had no intention of returning to his car, because he was committed to confronting Trayvon. He did so, and then he started a fight with him, and then he murdered him.

Could you at least add "IMO" to the end of that?

In my opinion, supported by evidence proving these facts beyond a reasonable doubt.

Given Zimmerman's openly displayed hostility, his unfounded belief in Trayvon's criminality, his lethal armament, and his demonstrated willingness to confront (proved when he tried to chase Trayvon, whether or not you believe he continued to do so), versus the unarmed Martin's lawful course of conduct and complete absence of any motive to start a fight, the only reason--the only one--anyone believes he started the fight is because he's a young black male. Between two whites, or two blacks, "who started the fight" wouldn't even be a question here. Even less so if a black man had demonstrated Zimmerman's course of conduct against a white man.

Or because he said he refused to run while on the phone with his lady?
Wait, that would be two reasons. Reality... not conforming... to my...preconceived notions...must pull more emotional outrage from the void


Refusing to run from a possible confrintation is now punishable by death and it is evidence that you started a confrontation? This from the same internet thugs who WOULD shoot someone for punching them and feel that it is justifiable? The same internet thugs who cheer wildly whenever one of those CCTV cameras in Britain catches some guy beating up a would be assailant?

/You all are a trip.
 
2013-06-25 12:07:43 PM

bugontherug: And his word means nothing


But that's still like a B+ rating on the market, right?

/prolly mangled that
//don't know all that money talk
///Tres Virgules
 
2013-06-25 12:08:49 PM

BeatrixK: The irony is that, Zimmerman, all 500 lbs of him, actually looks more menacing now than he did when it all went down.  His defense team is starting off like a bunch of keystone cops...

1.)  The knock knock joke,
2.)  Asserting that DNA doesn't necessarily prove much
3.)  Forgetting a point in the timeline and telling the jury, 'I'm sure you wrote it down.'


...Welp, Zimmerman's farked.
 
2013-06-25 12:11:06 PM

ChaosStar: Fairly good map with timings. You can see that Martin's residence is further away than Zimmernan's truck.


No, it's inaccurate.

The "wind interference from running" occurred where the "Shiat- He's running" line is.  Zimmerman ran from the point he exited his truck to the T-intersection just north of the shooting site.  The distance correlates with the time of the running interval on the call.

And he parked closer to the turn in the road where it curves to the south.

My belief is that, after he hung up with the police, GZ continued east to the eastern-most point on the grassy area, to the road on the east side of the neighborhood, and then looked around for a while before turning back to walk to the west, toward his truck.  He met up with Martin just south of that T-intersection.

Martin was either hiding nearby, or (less likely) he circled all the way around the building that lies to the west of the shooting site.
 
2013-06-25 12:11:12 PM
Holy Crap Mark Fuhrman gives investigation commentary on Fox News?! This is what I miss not having cable.
 
2013-06-25 12:11:49 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Abuse Liability: bugontherug: The Muthaship: bugontherug: Zimmerman planned to continue to hunt Trayvon, in defiance of the dispatcher's suggestion. He planned to, and he did so. He had no intention of returning to his car, because he was committed to confronting Trayvon. He did so, and then he started a fight with him, and then he murdered him.

Could you at least add "IMO" to the end of that?

In my opinion, supported by evidence proving these facts beyond a reasonable doubt.

Given Zimmerman's openly displayed hostility, his unfounded belief in Trayvon's criminality, his lethal armament, and his demonstrated willingness to confront (proved when he tried to chase Trayvon, whether or not you believe he continued to do so), versus the unarmed Martin's lawful course of conduct and complete absence of any motive to start a fight, the only reason--the only one--anyone believes he started the fight is because he's a young black male. Between two whites, or two blacks, "who started the fight" wouldn't even be a question here. Even less so if a black man had demonstrated Zimmerman's course of conduct against a white man.

Or because he said he refused to run while on the phone with his lady?
Wait, that would be two reasons. Reality... not conforming... to my...preconceived notions...must pull more emotional outrage from the void

Refusing to run from a possible confrintation is now punishable by death and it is evidence that you started a confrontation? This from the same internet thugs who WOULD shoot someone for punching them and feel that it is justifiable? The same internet thugs who cheer wildly whenever one of those CCTV cameras in Britain catches some guy beating up a would be assailant?

/You all are a trip.


Nobody takes you seriously Dro.  You were called out with specific examples as a race baiter a couple threads ago.  Why would anyone collect these examples of you being a douche you ask? Because they occur with such frequency that its a simple google search away.  What happened here is horrible and a kid died.  This wasn't second degree murder, this was a scared little man shooting a kid because the situation turned deadly and he felt he needed to defend himself.

/troll on
 
2013-06-25 12:12:37 PM

bugontherug: ChaosStar:

Why couldn't he turn into a bird and fly away?
Why couldn't he teleport back to his truck?
Why couldn't he call in the first Marine recon division to extract him from the situation?

Terrific point. Because all of this is exactly as plausible as cupping your hand over a telephone receiver and talking quietly. Why didn't I think of that? Thanks for setting me straight on this point.

Based on your idiot logic,

Look, I can see you're too emotionally invested in this case to discuss it like an adult. It also doesn't seem like you're having fun anymore. So go have yourself a nice glass of warm milk, take a few deep breaths. Then, if you still want to, prove you're ready to rejoin the adult table by coming back and apologizing like a big boy.

Mkay?


I find it hilarious, I mean I totally laughed out loud enough that someone came to my office to find out what was so funny, that you're the one pointing out to someone else about emotional investment concerning this Mr "hunted down and executed a minor".
My seat at the adult table is secure, the same cannot be said for your grasp on reality or critical thinking skills. Me calling you names does nothing for or against the argument it only shows my contempt for your stupidity and lack of ability to process what is right in front of your face and my lack of desire to filter said contempt from my writings.
I will apologize though.
I'm sorry you're a mouth breathing, window licking, idiot who can't grasp that every shred of evidence in this case not only doesn't support your stances but completely obliterates them to the point you have to twist things about or blatantly lie just to try and stay in the conversation.
Feel better?
 
2013-06-25 12:13:03 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Abuse Liability: bugontherug: The Muthaship: bugontherug: Zimmerman planned to continue to hunt Trayvon, in defiance of the dispatcher's suggestion. He planned to, and he did so. He had no intention of returning to his car, because he was committed to confronting Trayvon. He did so, and then he started a fight with him, and then he murdered him.

Could you at least add "IMO" to the end of that?

In my opinion, supported by evidence proving these facts beyond a reasonable doubt.

Given Zimmerman's openly displayed hostility, his unfounded belief in Trayvon's criminality, his lethal armament, and his demonstrated willingness to confront (proved when he tried to chase Trayvon, whether or not you believe he continued to do so), versus the unarmed Martin's lawful course of conduct and complete absence of any motive to start a fight, the only reason--the only one--anyone believes he started the fight is because he's a young black male. Between two whites, or two blacks, "who started the fight" wouldn't even be a question here. Even less so if a black man had demonstrated Zimmerman's course of conduct against a white man.

Or because he said he refused to run while on the phone with his lady?
Wait, that would be two reasons. Reality... not conforming... to my...preconceived notions...must pull more emotional outrage from the void

Refusing to run from a possible confrintation is now punishable by death and it is evidence that you started a confrontation? This from the same internet thugs who WOULD shoot someone for punching them and feel that it is justifiable? The same internet thugs who cheer wildly whenever one of those CCTV cameras in Britain catches some guy beating up a would be assailant?

/You all are a trip.




A man (which Martin was) turning to confront a person is not looking for a peaceful end to things. He's looking to hurt or intimidate the other guy. The fact that Martin was not scared is clear from the gf. Had he kept walking or said look I'm calling the cops he be alive.
 
2013-06-25 12:13:48 PM

asquian: ChaosStar: Ricardo Klement: positronica: So far no evidence has been presented that GZ continued to follow Martin after the 911 dispatcher said he didn't have to.

Doesn't the location of the incident, which was closer to Martin's house than when Zim got off the phone, count as evidence that Zimmerman continued his pursuit?

[bcclist.files.wordpress.com image 850x450]

Fairly good map with timings. You can see that Martin's residence is further away than Zimmernan's truck.


1:28-1:30 seems to be of specific interest.


Only thing I can think of is maybe there was a noise like a really bad fart? I have no idea why they put that on there but it made me chuckle.
 
2013-06-25 12:13:59 PM
bugontherug: Look, I can see you're too emotionally invested in this case to discuss it like an adult. It also doesn't seem like you're having fun anymore. So go have yourself a nice glass of warm milk, take a few deep breaths. Then, if you still want to, prove you're ready to rejoin the adult table by coming back and apologizing like a big boy.

First you engaged in denial, then an elaborate self-serving fantasy where you built inference on inference, and now you've graduated to projection.

You're a walking psych textbook.
 
2013-06-25 12:15:02 PM

ChaosStar: Ricardo Klement: positronica: So far no evidence has been presented that GZ continued to follow Martin after the 911 dispatcher said he didn't have to.

Doesn't the location of the incident, which was closer to Martin's house than when Zim got off the phone, count as evidence that Zimmerman continued his pursuit?

[bcclist.files.wordpress.com image 850x450]

Fairly good map with timings. You can see that Martin's residence is further away than Zimmernan's truck.


The map also shows that Treyvon Martin doubled back.
 
2013-06-25 12:17:30 PM
so Zimmerman told the neighborhood watch lady that he was asked by the HOA to form a watch program but the HOA guy says that he didn't think they needed one and ZImmerman came to him about it.
sounds like he lied to her.
 
2013-06-25 12:17:46 PM
Wait wait wait.... jury selection ended up with an entire jury of  women??!!?!?!?!??!  for a murder case?!

WTF?  How the fark is that a jury of his peers.  Who let that happen.   Whywould the defense find that to be a good idea?

Its too bad Zimmerman was too poor to hire a real lawyer.
 
2013-06-25 12:18:24 PM

nekom: Where's the evidence to prove that he's lying, I would really love to take a look at it.


If you look at nothing other than Zimmermans own mutually conflicting statements you can see there is quite a bit of lying going on.

It is true that we have little physical evidence and almost no idea what actually happened in the alley. It is impossible to prove anything related to that.

 We do however know for certain that Zimmerman is lying. All or part of what stories are true we don't know, but even excluding all else and taking into account -only- his own statements we can unambiguously ascertain that there is lying, and that it has been intentional and opportunistic.
 
2013-06-25 12:18:28 PM

Phinn: the State is required to prove that the homicide was not self-defense, and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt


reasonable being the operative word.
 
2013-06-25 12:19:46 PM

Alonjar: Wait wait wait.... jury selection ended up with an entire jury of  women??!!?!?!?!??!  for a murder case?!

WTF?  How the fark is that a jury of his peers.  Who let that happen.   Whywould the defense find that to be a good idea?

Its too bad Zimmerman was too poor to hire a real lawyer.


I think that works to his favor. 5 of them are white women. white women see black men as scary.
 
2013-06-25 12:20:15 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: ChaosStar: Ricardo Klement: positronica: So far no evidence has been presented that GZ continued to follow Martin after the 911 dispatcher said he didn't have to.

Doesn't the location of the incident, which was closer to Martin's house than when Zim got off the phone, count as evidence that Zimmerman continued his pursuit?

[bcclist.files.wordpress.com image 850x450]

Fairly good map with timings. You can see that Martin's residence is further away than Zimmernan's truck.

The map also shows that Treyvon Martin doubled back.




That map is racist! There is no way he doubled back and attacked Zimmerman. Even thou the evidence points to it. Farking racist
 
2013-06-25 12:20:57 PM

PsiChick: BeatrixK: The irony is that, Zimmerman, all 500 lbs of him, actually looks more menacing now than he did when it all went down.  His defense team is starting off like a bunch of keystone cops...

1.)  The knock knock joke,
2.)  Asserting that DNA doesn't necessarily prove much
3.)  Forgetting a point in the timeline and telling the jury, 'I'm sure you wrote it down.'

...Welp, Zimmerman's farked.


abovethelaw.com
Your Honor, I move that I be disbarred for introducing this evidence against my own clients
 
2013-06-25 12:22:16 PM

Hobodeluxe: Phinn: the State is required to prove that the homicide was not self-defense, and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt

reasonable being the operative word.



Let's see your summary of the evidence that proves that GZ did not act in self-defense.

Then we'll see if there is any objectively reasonable basis to doubt your conclusions.
 
2013-06-25 12:24:15 PM

Hobodeluxe: I think that works to his favor. 5 of them are white women. white women see black men as scary.


Yeah but Zimmerman  killed the scary guy.  It just doesnt seem like something i could see a woman empathizing with, when compared to the mentality of a man.  Especially if any of the women there have children... "this could have happened to MY baby!"

Maybe i'm wrong.. I'm not a criminal defense lawyer.  Seems like a bad move to me though.
 
2013-06-25 12:27:00 PM

Theburner: What I want to know is....  What caliber and what handgun is able to produce a single shot fatality? Shouldn't we be ensuring the police are then armed with the same combination?
Seems the only people the police are able to kill with a single shot are innocent bystanders.


All of them?

What I want to know is...  Why is everyone ignoring that Zimmerman took not one, but TWO flashlights with him when he left his truck?
 
2013-06-25 12:27:29 PM

nekom: There is NO WAY IN HELL any of that proves anything beyond a reasonable doubt. All of that might fly in civil court, but that's a whole lot of hearsay and conjecture, which are KINDS of evidence, but that doesn't even come close to enough to convict for murde


Hearsay is an out of court statement offered in court to prove the truth of the matter uttered in the statement. Its probative value, like any other evidence, depends on surrounding circumstances.

1) Zimmerman's openly displayed hostility and belief in Trayvon's criminality really isn't hearsay, though it is proved by his own out of court statements offered in court. They're not hearsay because they're not offered to prove the truth of the matters he uttered, but rather to prove Zimmerman's state of mind of hostility and ill-will.

Here, those statements are "these f*cking punks," and "these assholes always get away," referring contextually to Trayvon Martin, and proving also contextually Zimmerman's unfounded belief in Trayvon's criminality. What matters here isn't whether Trayvon Martin in fact was a punk, an asshole, or a criminal, or even whether Zimmerman's statements are probative on any of those points. What matters here is that when you believe someone you think is a criminal is also a "punk" and an "asshole," it is proved beyond even a remotely plausible doubt that you have a) ill will towards that person, which is an element of 2nd degree murder, and b) that you have a motive to murder that person.

2) We can prove Zimmerman's lethal armament by hearsay evidence. In particular, his own multiple admissions that he was lethally armed. But we don't have to. We can prove it by police testimony that he was found at the crime scene with a firearm, and that Trayvon Martin died from a gunshot wound.

So no, this isn't really hearsay. And it's all inference, not conjecture. In fact, the inferences that Zimmerman harbored ill-will towards Trayvon, believed Trayvon a criminal, had a motive to murder him, and was lethally armed cannot be disputed with any credibility. You might dispute the probative value of each proposition so proved, but the propositions themselves are wrought-iron.

Likewise, the lack of credible evidence for any reason for Trayvon Martin to start a fight really isn't hearsay. It's just proved by the absence of credible evidence. Note: I didn't say "lack of evidencre." I said lack of "credible" evidence. There is evidence--in the form of Zimmerman's implausibly one-sided action movie narrative--but it is not credible. And the incredibility of that narrative itself is probative of Zimmerman's guilt.

The real conjecture here is that Trayvon started a fight, or did anything other than defend himself against a hostile lethally armed assailant who hunted and harassed him for no good reason.
 
2013-06-25 12:28:23 PM

Phinn: ChaosStar: Fairly good map with timings. You can see that Martin's residence is further away than Zimmernan's truck.

No, it's inaccurate.

The "wind interference from running" occurred where the "Shiat- He's running" line is.  Zimmerman ran from the point he exited his truck to the T-intersection just north of the shooting site.  The distance correlates with the time of the running interval on the call.

And he parked closer to the turn in the road where it curves to the south.

My belief is that, after he hung up with the police, GZ continued east to the eastern-most point on the grassy area, to the road on the east side of the neighborhood, and then looked around for a while before turning back to walk to the west, toward his truck.  He met up with Martin just south of that T-intersection.

Martin was either hiding nearby, or (less likely) he circled all the way around the building that lies to the west of the shooting site.


Boss I never claimed it was done by a survey team. It's not even my map. It also doesn't say when the wind interference starts, only when it stops, so I dunno what you were trying to say with that. I just put it up to show where the truck was in relation to Martin's house.

There is only four and a half minutes between the end of the call (7:13:11) and the first police unit on crime scene (7:17:40). Total. call time is 4 minutes 7 seconds.
The gunshot is at 7:16:55 so we know the fight ended there.
This means the fight was very quick, something a lot of people don't seem to understand. The entire thing from phone call to police to police on the scene is a little over either and a half minutes. So he didn't have a whole bunch of time to continue "hunting" for Martin. I personally feel this is the evidence that Martin backtracked into Zimmerman and that Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle based on where the incident took place.
 
2013-06-25 12:29:52 PM

Hobodeluxe: so Zimmerman told the neighborhood watch lady that he was asked by the HOA to form a watch program but the HOA guy says that he didn't think they needed one and ZImmerman came to him about it.
sounds like he lied to her.


I'd be willing to bet that no where in the US has a HOA ever said, "Man, we need THIS GUY to form a watch program."  At best they sent out a memo asking if anyone is interested.  And from previous reports, Zimmerman was the only person in the community to join.
 
2013-06-25 12:31:29 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Theburner: What I want to know is....  What caliber and what handgun is able to produce a single shot fatality? Shouldn't we be ensuring the police are then armed with the same combination?
Seems the only people the police are able to kill with a single shot are innocent bystanders.

All of them?

What I want to know is...  Why is everyone ignoring that Zimmerman took not one, but TWO flashlights with him when he left his truck?


One flashlight didn't work, the other was attached to his keychain.
We're not talking 100 bazillion lumen Surefires here.
 
2013-06-25 12:32:24 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: QueenMamaBee: For those of y'all who think GZ was perfectly justified.... I'd like to see how many of you would like to go out and pick random people and follow them. See how often that behavior results in an ass-beating.

So I guess then you could kill those people and be perfectly justified?

Following someone warrants a beating? What kinda white trash trailer park you from? If I'm following you and you turn around and start hitting me your are the agressor. And yes I would shoot you.


If I'm doing nothing wrong, and you keep following me no matter how many times I try to lose you then I'm going to assume you mean to harm me in some way, and yes, I will hit you or pepper spray you. If we happen to be walking the same way on the sidewalk, that's one thing. If I duck off the path and away from you and you keep following, then YOU seem to be the one exhibiting "suspicious behavior".
 
Displayed 50 of 933 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report