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(CNN)   Zimmerman defense lawyer apologizes to jury for telling knock-knock joke about them in his opening statement, asks them if they've heard the one about Trayvon Martin's favorite flavor of Skittles   (cnn.com) divider line 933
    More: Dumbass, George Zimmerman, Skittles, opening statement, Mark O'Mara, Angela Corey, next of kin, Benjamin Crump, Dean Martin  
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6580 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jun 2013 at 8:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-25 11:04:28 AM
I am fervently hoping for Zimmerman's conviction.  I fear it means race riots if he's acquitted.  Zimmerman is an asshat and it's just not worth our cities being torched so he can walk free.
 
2013-06-25 11:04:34 AM

This text is now purple: hinten: Leaving the legal situation aside, what's interesting is that if Zimmerman didn't have a gun nobody would have died that night.

Leaving aside whether that actually follows (bouncing someone's head off of a sidewalk rapidly increases the lethality of an encounter), more people were killed in 2011 by personal assault than by justified homicide.

Given that, Martin was more likely to kill Zimmerman than the opposite.

\Ain't stats fun?


Especially when you don't include a citation.


/79% of Farkers state opinion as if it were fact and reference unnamed studies as conclusive evidence of their correctness.
 
2013-06-25 11:05:09 AM

Thoguh: Trayvon didn't "flee". If he had fled Zimmerman would have never ended up on his back with Trayvon on top of him, which is what an eyewitness saw and the evidence indicates. You can disagree about how you think they ended up in that position. But you can't deny that is the position they were in when the shot was fired.


So Zimmerman lied when he was on the phone with police. An interesting defense tack, though one I doubt O'Mara will take. Because if you say Zimmerman was lying on the phone, the question is "why?" The answer to that is obvious: he was manufacturing plausibility to justify the shooting he so vividly fantasized about. In that case, he hasn't been overcharged at all. He's been undercharged, because this was a premeditated murder, and he should be strapped to a gurney and pumped full of poison until he's dead.
 
2013-06-25 11:05:37 AM

LordBeavis: I am fervently hoping for Zimmerman's conviction.  I fear it means race riots if he's acquitted.  Zimmerman is an asshat and it's just not worth our cities being torched so he can walk free.


Don't worry, people in 2013 are too fat to riot.
 
2013-06-25 11:05:48 AM

QueenMamaBee: For those of y'all who think GZ was perfectly justified.... I'd like to see how many of you would like to go out and pick random people and follow them. See how often that behavior results in an ass-beating.

So I guess then you could kill those people and be perfectly justified?


Go be dumb elsewhere please
 
2013-06-25 11:06:47 AM

SpectroBoy: Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: Green Scorpio: Well? What's his favorite flavor?
Favorite Skittles flavor?  I'm not sure.  But I'm guessing his favorite beer is
[www.myneonhaven.com image 500x375]
[forum.maplewoodonline.com image 850x265]


I am everybody's favorite.
 
2013-06-25 11:08:31 AM

ideamaster: Bontesla: Zimmerman had an opportunity to use SYG but didn't. Had he used it, there would have been a pre-trial hearing that could have released him from all charges.

He reserved the right to use the SYG defense after the case to save money in legal fees.  He opted out of the pre-trial hearing, but he still has that card up his sleeve.

And an all female Jury is likely to be another good card if he has to go to an appeals court.


Citation? I'm under the impression that he wavied his right to immunity under the SYG defense.

And even if he could (I really don't think that's the way it works) - don't you find it odd that he'd play the riskier move in trial? It's also costlier.
 
2013-06-25 11:09:19 AM

IamAwake: DrBrownCow: While very few brawls might lead to someone dying, we're not talking about winning or losing a scratch-off lotto ticket

so it should be the attacker who gets to win in your line of thinking, not the victim.


Yeah, the analogy is a bit awkward, but I think the point was clear.  That is, people can be reasonably expected to take their chances when the odds of something bad happening are low and the consequences are tolerable.  What is considered a reasonable precaution or action changes in proportion to the severity of the consequences.
 
2013-06-25 11:10:34 AM

QueenMamaBee: For those of y'all who think GZ was perfectly justified.... I'd like to see how many of you would like to go out and pick random people and follow them. See how often that behavior results in an ass-beating.

So I guess then you could kill those people and be perfectly justified?


ITT - People who think you're justified in attacking someone because they're following you.  These are the defenders of Treyvon Martin.
 
2013-06-25 11:10:47 AM

IamAwake: kendelrio: By whose account????? Please give me a citation that conclusively states GZ attacked TM!!!! If you can show me evidence that GM jumped him, I will retract everything I have said and rage-quit Fark for 6 months and put a note in my profile you pwned me.

you seriously don't consider chasing down someone who is running away from you *, to be an assault on them?  To be a physical threat?  Really?  An attack doesn't mean you finish the entire situation, pack up your bags, and leave for the night.  An attack means you *start* a situation.  Thus the reason someone can be simply defending themselves, never attacking, yet still win out.

at·tack/əˈtak/VerbTake aggressive action against (a place or enemy forces) with weapons or armed force: "in December, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor".NounAn aggressive and violent** action against a person or place: "he was killed in an attack on a checkpoint".Synonymsverb.assault - assailnoun.assault - onset - aggression - fit - offensive - charge



*Citation needed. The recording shows GZ quit following TM and was returning to his car.

**Key words there bud.

/still waiting for the citation GZ attacked TM
 
2013-06-25 11:11:20 AM

Bontesla: ideamaster: Bontesla: Zimmerman had an opportunity to use SYG but didn't. Had he used it, there would have been a pre-trial hearing that could have released him from all charges.

He reserved the right to use the SYG defense after the case to save money in legal fees.  He opted out of the pre-trial hearing, but he still has that card up his sleeve.

And an all female Jury is likely to be another good card if he has to go to an appeals court.

Citation? I'm under the impression that he wavied his right to immunity under the SYG defense.

And even if he could (I really don't think that's the way it works) - don't you find it odd that he'd play the riskier move in trial? It's also costlier.


SYG doesn't come into play here.
Stand Your Ground removes your duty to retreat under the self defense law (having exhausted all reasonable means of escape) in a place where you have a legal right to be. Zimmerman was pinned by his attacker so he couldn't retreat anyway.
Going through the SYG trial would have meant higher legal fees for a outcome that probably wouldn't have been in his favor.
 
2013-06-25 11:11:49 AM

kendelrio: MithrandirBooga:Since Zimmerman started the confrontation, no amount of backlash would  ever justify using deadly force. That's just not how reality works.

Doesn't matter in this case. The question isn't "Who started the confrontation?". The question is "Did GZ fear for his life enough to use deadly force?"

IamAwake: He deserved to get a little beat up for that,

So women who wear short skirts, lots of makeup and are out of their homes after dark unaccompanied deserve rape? Nice bit of logic you have there.......


So you are either saying Zimmerman is like the rapist stalking a woman for prey or else that is the most retarded comment known to Fark. I think it probably falls under the later.
 
2013-06-25 11:11:55 AM
So women who wear short skirts, lots of makeup and are out of their homes after dark unaccompanied deserve rape? Nice bit of logic you have there.......

Women have the right to do just this - anyone who follows and rapes them deserves to be charged, go to trial, and be convicted

Bad analogy - and would (some of) you stop using the "rape" example? It makes the GOP jealous
 
2013-06-25 11:12:00 AM

ChaosStar: Look in the upper right of this photo. Notice the darker purple area, in contract with the bright red of the blood? That's abrasion and bruising of the skin, where it contacted the concrete hard enough to cause damage but not to break the dermal layers to release blood. This is a sign of blunt force trauma.



"Dark purple area?" Lol! It's a blurred area of mottled blood. Not abrasions, and certainly not bruising.

But even supposing it's "abrasions," which means "scrapes," a few scrapes hardly gives anyone to fear for his life. At no time was Zimmerman afraid of death or great bodily harm. His injuries--abrasions or no--were medically trivial.

I'd agree with you if all this uber-violent head "bashing" committed by the savage Trayvon Martin had left even a minor concussion. But it didn't.

Zimmerman lied. He lied because he knew he had committed a murder.
 
2013-06-25 11:12:11 AM

bugontherug: "Self-serving?" LOL. Because I obviously benefit from this so much!



Psychologically, you do.  You are married to the idea he's guilty.  I don't know which part of the story hooked you and raised your seething lust for his head on a plate, but it was something non-rational, obviously.  Racism.  Guns.  Gated communities.  Zimmerman usurping the role of the police (i.e., not knowing his place).

One of those.  Or all of them.  Only you would know which aspect of this story flipped your switch.

And since then you've gone about constructing a fantasy to justify your fee-fees.  It's intolerable to you that your feelings on [fill in the blank with your favorite political issue] will go unavenged.

bugontherug: The only self-serving narrative in this whole case passed through George Zimmerman's lips.



He gets to do that.  He didn't have to talk to the police at all, actually.  It was stupid for him to make any statement at all, but he did.   The burden is on the prosecution to disprove it. They can't.

bugontherug: I forgot to add another reason we know Zimmerman somehow menaced Trayvon: his changed story. On Hannity, Zimmerman's story changed from Trayvon fleeing to Trayvon rather merrily "skipping" away.



Martin could have done both -- running and skipping at different times.  That's not changing the story.

bugontherug: But whatever happened, Zimmerman's evolving story tells us what? Say it with me now: Consciousness of wrongdoing, from which we may infer, in conjunction with the mountain of other evidence, Zimmerman's guilt.



His explanation was corroborated by the statements of every other witness, including DeeDee.
 
2013-06-25 11:12:51 AM
This sorta reminds me of a case I saw on the 'The First 48' where 2 guys attempted to rob a street vender, but the street vender had a gun and he shot and killed one of the fleeing robbers. The police didnt charge the vender with killing him, but instead charged the robber who got away with his accomplices murder. I guess the police felt that the victim shouldn't be held culpable cuz it was the robbers who started it. I mean even if GZ felt afraid for his life, it was himself who made the situation what it was. He's culpable IMO!
 
2013-06-25 11:12:54 AM

ChaosStar: SYG doesn't come into play here.
Stand Your Ground removes your duty to retreat under the self defense law (having exhausted all reasonable means of escape) in a place where you have a legal right to be. Zimmerman was pinned by his attacker so he couldn't retreat anyway.
Going through the SYG trial would have meant higher legal fees for a outcome that probably wouldn't have been in his favor.


2 things:

1.  You're right.

2.  You're wasting your breath.
 
2013-06-25 11:15:35 AM

Phinn: QueenMamaBee: For those of y'all who think GZ was perfectly justified ...

What's your proof that he wasn't justified?  He's presumed innocent, you know.

(No, you don't know.  I get it.  You're just talking out of your ass.)


Yeah, so were OJ, Casey Anthony and Robert Blake.... but of course, you are wiser than us all.

So I take it that you wouldn't go around following random people? Maybe even people you don't know who are in your neighborhood? I mean, it's a free country, right? You can just tail people all day long for your amusement, with zero repercussions for your behavior, right?
 
2013-06-25 11:16:01 AM

bugontherug: ChaosStar: Look in the upper right of this photo. Notice the darker purple area, in contract with the bright red of the blood? That's abrasion and bruising of the skin, where it contacted the concrete hard enough to cause damage but not to break the dermal layers to release blood. This is a sign of blunt force trauma.


"Dark purple area?" Lol! It's a blurred area of mottled blood. Not abrasions, and certainly not bruising.

But even supposing it's "abrasions," which means "scrapes," a few scrapes hardly gives anyone to fear for his life. At no time was Zimmerman afraid of death or great bodily harm. His injuries--abrasions or no--were medically trivial.

I'd agree with you if all this uber-violent head "bashing" committed by the savage Trayvon Martin had left even a minor concussion. But it didn't.

Zimmerman lied. He lied because he knew he had committed a murder.


You either need glasses, have selective blindness, or you're just a whole new brand of stupid.
Blood doesn't turn that color fool.
His head was striking concrete, not rubbing against sandpaper. The scrapes and bruising isn't what justifies the deadly force, it's the striking of the head on the hard surface. This can lead to brain trauma and death very easily, which is certainly life threatening enough to worry about.

I know, you're going to ignore all logic and reason, just like in every other thread you've been in.
 
2013-06-25 11:16:08 AM
So you are free to dress how you like but you are prohibited from walking in a public area watching someone you feel may be a criminal and reporting their actions to the police.

T/Y - I just imagined George Zimmerman, Crime Watch Captain, patrolling the gated community in drag, deserving the beat down he got to justify cleaning up crime via a gun

You reach much further, you are going to fall off that cliff
 
2013-06-25 11:16:17 AM

kendelrio: *Citation needed. The recording shows GZ quit following TM and was returning to his car.


No. It absolutley does not.

The dispatcher testified yesterday--and the recording verifies--that he continued to hear noises suggesting movement even after he suggested Zimmerman stop following Trayvon. At no time did he hear door chimes or a car door opening and closing after that.

And what did Zimmerman tell the dispatcher? He told him to have the officer call him when he arrived on the scene, and then he'd tell him where he's at.

This last proves Zimmerman had no intention of getting back into his car. His intention was to defy the dispatcher's suggestion, and hunt down Trayvon.
 
2013-06-25 11:16:37 AM

IamAwake: Ricardo Klement: seems as if people are arguing that Zimmerman relinquished his right to life by his actions leading up to the confrontation

no one is saying that at all, and there is no indication that Trayvon was threatening Zimmerman's life.


I prefaced that question asking if, for argument's sake, Zimmerman was telling the truth and Martin said, "You're going to die tonight," as he beat him, that Zimmerman had surrendered his right to defend himself. You're not addressing my point.
 
2013-06-25 11:17:23 AM
I'm amazed at after the huge number of threads that this case has had on fark, so many people still repeatedly get the most basic facts of the case wrong.  Not to mention that the people who seem to be the most opinionated and emotional on things also seem to be the most uninformed on the case and on the law in general.  Anyways, here's just a few points that I'm sure the same people will keep ignoring, but whatever...

1. So far no evidence has been presented that GZ continued to follow Martin after the 911 dispatcher said he didn't have to.  This has been clear since the 911 transcript was released, yet this seems to be one of the most commonly mistaken facts in the case.  Now, it's possible that GZ resumed looking for Martin after the 911 call ended, but the 911 transcript, the 911 recording, and GZ's testimony all appear to show that after being told that he didn't need to follow Martin, GZ replied with "ok", stopped running, and then spent time discussing with the 911 operator where he was and how he would be able to meet up with the cops en route.

2. So far no evidence has been presented that GZ instigated the confrontation between himself and Martin.  All we know for certain is that GZ followed Martin and then lost him.  At a later time then, both men came into contact again, either due to random chance or due to the direct actions of one of the men.  The claim that the defense has been making is that Martin sought out GZ after the first encounter had ended with GZ losing site of Martin.  Now it's possible that it was actually GZ who continued to search for Martin and thus start the second encounter that eventually led to the physical altercation and shooting, but so far, no evidence has been presented to back that theory.

3. No evidence has been presented that Martin knew he was being followed by an armed individual.  Now, it's possible that GZ brandished his weapon at some point, but both GZ's testimony and the information provided by Martin's girlfriend imply that Martin was unaware that GZ had a gun.  Because of this, any opinions of the case that involve analyzing Martin's actions as though Martin was aware that he was being followed by an armed attacker are likely flawed.

4. Claims that both men were acting in self defense and thus Florida's self defense statute is broken are not based on an accurate understanding the law.  Under Florida law, and most self defense statutes for that matter, an attacker can claim self defense, but ONLY if he has first made every effort to escape, withdraw, or remove himself from the conflict.  In the case of an attacker armed with a gun, such a condition can likely only be satisfied by the attacker disarming himself.  If GZ was the attacker, due to grabbing Martin, or brandishing his weapon, or using fighting words, then he was most likely had no right to self defense, since there's no indication that he tried to surrender or throw aside his weapon.  By the same token, if Martin is the one who started the physical confrontation, either by grabbing or striking GZ, or by using fighting words, then he lost his right to self defense and would have only been able to reclaim it by attempting to retreat or withdraw first.  The point being, that regardless of what events actually transpired, only one man had a right to self defense at any specific time, which is how the law is supposed to work.
 
2013-06-25 11:18:13 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: This text is now purple: hinten: Leaving the legal situation aside, what's interesting is that if Zimmerman didn't have a gun nobody would have died that night.

Leaving aside whether that actually follows (bouncing someone's head off of a sidewalk rapidly increases the lethality of an encounter), more people were killed in 2011 by personal assault than by justified homicide.

Given that, Martin was more likely to kill Zimmerman than the opposite.

\Ain't stats fun?

Especially when you don't include a citation.


/79% of Farkers state opinion as if it were fact and reference unnamed studies as conclusive evidence of their correctness.


http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expanded-homici de-data
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8
 
2013-06-25 11:19:56 AM

bugontherug: He told him to have the officer call him when he arrived on the scene, and then he'd tell him where he's at.

This last proves Zimmerman had no intention of getting back into his car. His intention was to defy the dispatcher's suggestion, and hunt down Trayvon.



You're genuinely delusional.
 
2013-06-25 11:20:12 AM

bugontherug: kendelrio: *Citation needed. The recording shows GZ quit following TM and was returning to his car*.

No. It absolutley does not.

The dispatcher testified yesterday--and the recording verifies--that he continued to hear noises suggesting movement even after he suggested Zimmerman stop following Trayvon. At no time did he hear door chimes or a car door opening and closing after that.

And what did Zimmerman tell the dispatcher? He told him to have the officer call him when he arrived on the scene, and then he'd tell him where he's at.**

This last proves Zimmerman had no intention of getting back into his car. His intention was to defy the dispatcher's suggestion, and hunt down Trayvon.***


* Returning to the car will also suggest movement. I never stated he got in the car.

** Has no bearing on anything

***Can't be proven.

And how do you "defy" a suggestion?
 
2013-06-25 11:21:31 AM

ChaosStar: Bontesla: ideamaster: Bontesla: Zimmerman had an opportunity to use SYG but didn't. Had he used it, there would have been a pre-trial hearing that could have released him from all charges.

He reserved the right to use the SYG defense after the case to save money in legal fees.  He opted out of the pre-trial hearing, but he still has that card up his sleeve.

And an all female Jury is likely to be another good card if he has to go to an appeals court.

Citation? I'm under the impression that he wavied his right to immunity under the SYG defense.

And even if he could (I really don't think that's the way it works) - don't you find it odd that he'd play the riskier move in trial? It's also costlier.

SYG doesn't come into play here.
Stand Your Ground removes your duty to retreat under the self defense law (having exhausted all reasonable means of escape) in a place where you have a legal right to be. Zimmerman was pinned by his attacker so he couldn't retreat anyway.
Going through the SYG trial would have meant higher legal fees for a outcome that probably wouldn't have been in his favor.


A trial is more expensive than a SYG pretrial hearing. So that's incorrect. Further, Zimmerman could have certainly used the SYG defense. He wavied his right. If he were ineligible then there would have been no need for him to officially waive that immunity defense. Finally, do you realize how low the burden is to successfully seek immunity? It's ridiculous.

That's why when Zimmerman opted for a self-defense plea without seeing immunity under SYG - a lot of legal analysts became excited. Tons of analysis. It created a lot of interest. By most accounts - this was his ticket out.
 
2013-06-25 11:22:28 AM

bugontherug: kendelrio: *Citation needed. The recording shows GZ quit following TM and was returning to his car.

No. It absolutley does not.

The dispatcher testified yesterday--and the recording verifies--that he continued to hear noises suggesting movement even after he suggested Zimmerman stop following Trayvon. At no time did he hear door chimes or a car door opening and closing after that.

And what did Zimmerman tell the dispatcher? He told him to have the officer call him when he arrived on the scene, and then he'd tell him where he's at.

This last proves Zimmerman had no intention of getting back into his car. His intention was to defy the dispatcher's suggestion, and hunt down Trayvon.


So your only point is that there were continued noises (which were wind btw) after he was told he didn't need to follow Martin. So even if it was the noise of him moving, you have no evidence which way he was moving but you somehow know that means he continue to look for Martin.

Zimmerman told the dispatcher to have the officers call him so he would not reveal his destination to Martin, if Martin was till around. This is perfectly backed up by his expressed reluctance to give out his address because he "doesn't know where this kid is" immediately prior. It certainly doesn't prove his travel intentions.
 
2013-06-25 11:23:17 AM

The Muthaship: ChaosStar: SYG doesn't come into play here.
Stand Your Ground removes your duty to retreat under the self defense law (having exhausted all reasonable means of escape) in a place where you have a legal right to be. Zimmerman was pinned by his attacker so he couldn't retreat anyway.
Going through the SYG trial would have meant higher legal fees for a outcome that probably wouldn't have been in his favor.

2 things:

1.  You're right.

2.  You're wasting your breath.


/sigh
I know
 
2013-06-25 11:24:10 AM

bulldg4life: Ricardo Klement: Should what he did empower his assailant to kill him for his mistakes?  It seems as if people are arguing that Zimmerman relinquished his right to life by his actions leading up to the confrontation.

I find it interesting that we are determining whether the suspects actions relinquished his right to life when the victim is dead...

What about Martin's actions?


What about them? I asked a what-if based on Zimmerman's testimony. If Zimmerman is lying and Martin did not throw the first punch, then Zimmerman is probably a murderer. (At some point, Martin probably has a duty to accept someone's surrender, presuming Zimmerman offered one.)

This is all highly speculative. No one is going to know for sure what actually happened that night except Zimmerman and God.
 
2013-06-25 11:24:18 AM

hinten: Zimmerman's hands. No defensive wounds.


So he was blocking punches with his knuckles?

hinten: The back of his jacket after he rolled around on wet grass and concrete with someone sitting on top of him.


The police report includes officers observations that his back was covered in grass when they arrived on scene. You do realize that picture was taken around 2 hours after that, right?

hinten: His pants after fighting on wet grass and concrete.


See above.


Seriously, is Team Trayvon even trying?
 
2013-06-25 11:25:57 AM
ChaosStar: You either need glasses, have selective blindness, or you're just a whole new brand of stupid.

You need a momma to teach you that it's wrong to call people names. Worse, it undermines your own credibility. It proves you're too emotionally invested in the subject to view it rationally. I doubt you she even taught you to apologize when you lose your temper and make a fool of yourself like that.

Look,

Blood doesn't turn that color fool.

Sure it does. And the image is distorted anyway.

His head was striking concrete, not rubbing against sandpaper. The scrapes and bruising isn't what justifies the deadly force, it's the striking of the head on the hard surface. This can lead to brain trauma and death very easily, which is certainly life threatening enough to worry about.

Right... all this "head striking" which you say can lead to brain trauma "very easily"didn't even leave a concussion. This head bashing Zimmerman described either didn't happen (maybe he got an owie when he fell backwards after Trayvon decked him for manhandling him), or was grossly exaggerated.

Zimmerman wouldn't need to lie or exaggerate if the facts supported him. So we know they don't support him, that he knows they don't, that he's conscious of his own wrongdoing, and therefore guilty.
 
2013-06-25 11:25:58 AM

Garaba: Really

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/09/1214336/-DNA-Report-does-NO T- support-Zimmerman-s-claim-that-Trayvon-Martin-caused-his-injuries


The fact that you think there's DNA evidence whenever a punch is landed is pretty damn funny.
 
2013-06-25 11:26:37 AM

ChaosStar: Zimmerman told the dispatcher to have the officers call him so he would not reveal his destination to Martin, if Martin was till around. This is perfectly backed up by his expressed reluctance to give out his address because he "doesn't know where this kid is" immediately prior. It certainly doesn't prove his travel intentions.


Black people are sneaky.  They're known to hang around, almost invisible in plain site, so they can listen into the phone calls of white people so they can find their addresses.  There could be ten black people within five feet of you right now and you'd never know it.
 
2013-06-25 11:27:59 AM

Satanic_Hamster: ChaosStar: Zimmerman told the dispatcher to have the officers call him so he would not reveal his destination to Martin, if Martin was till around. This is perfectly backed up by his expressed reluctance to give out his address because he "doesn't know where this kid is" immediately prior. It certainly doesn't prove his travel intentions.

Black people are sneaky.  They're known to hang around, almost invisible in plain site, so they can listen into the phone calls of white people so they can find their addresses.  There could be ten black people within five feet of you right now and you'd never know it.


There's a reason Ninjas chose black as the color of their uniform.

(with the exception of the ones in "American Ninja")
 
2013-06-25 11:29:50 AM

positronica: So far no evidence has been presented that GZ continued to follow Martin after the 911 dispatcher said he didn't have to.


Doesn't the location of the incident, which was closer to Martin's house than when Zim got off the phone, count as evidence that Zimmerman continued his pursuit?

positronica: So far no evidence has been presented that GZ instigated the confrontation between himself and Martin.


True. No evidence has been so presented as far as I can tell.

positronica: No evidence has been presented that Martin knew he was being followed by an armed individual.


In fact, one would argue to the contrary. One would have to conclude the kid was a moron to engage a man with a gun. So it's safe to assume that Martin didn't know Zimmerman didn't have a firearm - though that assumption could be wrong.

positronica: Claims that both men were acting in self defense and thus Florida's self defense statute is broken are not based on an accurate understanding the law.  Under Florida law, and most self defense statutes for that matter, an attacker can claim self defense, but ONLY if he has first made every effort to escape, withdraw, or remove himself from the conflict.


This was the purpose of my earlier post asking whether Zimmerman ever lost his right to defend himself, assuming Martin got the upper-hand. I don't believe he did, but that doesn't mean he isn't criminally liable for anything he did that night.
 
2013-06-25 11:30:56 AM
bugontherug:
Zimmerman wouldn't need to lie or exaggerate if the facts supported him. So we know they don't support him, that he knows they don't, that he's conscious of his own wrongdoing, and therefore guilty.

What facts of the case debunk his story?  What physical evidence or witnesses tear apart his version of events?  Again, he may well be outright lying, I have no doubt that if he had actually attacked Martin and knew there were no witnesses, he damn sure would lie.  I would too.  Where's the evidence to prove that he's lying, I would really love to take a look at it.
 
2013-06-25 11:31:23 AM

bugontherug: Right... all this "head striking" which you say can lead to brain trauma "very easily"didn't even leave a concussion.


If a guy was attempting to bash your head into the concrete, wouldn't you be doing everything possible to counter the downward force? The fact that his head hitting the sidewalk only caused minor injuries doesn't mean the next one couldn't have led to a serious injury.

Team Trayvon seems to think that Zimmerman was obligated to wait until after he suffered a life threatening injury before defending himself with deadly force. That's one of the more ridiculous assertions being made in these threads. When being attacked, a person has every right to think that the next blow that lands could be the one that leads to seriously injury or worse. You have every right under the law to prevent that from happening.
 
2013-06-25 11:31:32 AM

LordBeavis: I am fervently hoping for Zimmerman's conviction.  I fear it means race riots if he's acquitted.  Zimmerman is an asshat and it's just not worth our cities being torched so he can walk free.




Are you kidding? It's sounds like let's railroad Zimmerman so the black don't go crazy. That's pretty stupid.
 
2013-06-25 11:32:44 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Are you kidding? It's sounds like let's railroad Zimmerman so the black don't go crazy. That's pretty stupid.


At least Team Trayvon is being honest now.
 
2013-06-25 11:37:19 AM

ChaosStar: So your only point is that there were continued noises (which were wind btw) after he was told he didn't need to follow Martin. So even if it was the noise of him moving, you have no evidence which way he was moving but you somehow know that means he continue to look for Martin.

Zimmerman told the dispatcher

to have the officers call him so he would not reveal his destination to Martin, if Martin was till around. This is perfectly backed up by his expressed reluctance to give out his address because he "doesn't know where this kid is" immediately prior. It certainly doesn't prove his travel intentions.

This doesn't make even the slightest sense. He thinks Trayvon is within ear shot--so he doesn't want to reveal that his destination is his car, only a few feet away? And why couldn't he have just cupped his hand over the receiver and talked quietly? Just. Not. Logical.

Listen to yourself. You're making up excuses--anything--to justify the narrative that George Zimmerman did anything other than hunt down and murder an unarmed minor.

Zimmerman planned to continue to hunt Trayvon, in defiance of the dispatcher's suggestion. He planned to, and he did so. He had no intention of returning to his car, because he was committed to confronting Trayvon. He did so, and then he started a fight with him, and then he murdered him.
 
2013-06-25 11:37:54 AM

Bontesla: A trial is more expensive than a SYG pretrial hearing. So that's incorrect. Further, Zimmerman could have certainly used the SYG defense. He wavied his right. If he were ineligible then there would have been no need for him to officially waive that immunity defense. Finally, do you realize how low the burden is to successfully seek immunity? It's ridiculous.

That's why when Zimmerman opted for a self-defense plea without seeing immunity under SYG - a lot of legal analysts became excited. Tons of analysis. It created a lot of interest. By most accounts - this was his ticket out.


He would have had the trial anyway, so the SYG hearing would have been added cost. So no, it's not incorrect.
No, he could not have have used the SYG as his duty to retreat was already removed via being pinned under Martin, so SYG doesn't apply.
He still has the right to a SYG hearing if he wants one, but his legal team knew it would be money spent for no reason and they opted not to do it to save money as it would have just resulted in a trial anyway.

That's why he opted for trial by jury, with a self defense please. The plea would have been self defense even in a SYG hearing, since you can't have SYG without self defense.
 
2013-06-25 11:38:05 AM

Popcorn Johnny: hinten: Zimmerman's hands. No defensive wounds.

So he was blocking punches with his knuckles?

hinten: The back of his jacket after he rolled around on wet grass and concrete with someone sitting on top of him.

The police report includes officers observations that his back was covered in grass when they arrived on scene. You do realize that picture was taken around 2 hours after that, right?

hinten: His pants after fighting on wet grass and concrete.

See above.


Seriously, is Team Trayvon even trying?


I know, I know, wet grass stains wipe right off. As a matter of fact, the wet grass stains came off from the rain.
And don't make me part of any team.
 
2013-06-25 11:38:27 AM

bugontherug: Zimmerman planned to continue to hunt Trayvon, in defiance of the dispatcher's suggestion. He planned to, and he did so. He had no intention of returning to his car, because he was committed to confronting Trayvon. He did so, and then he started a fight with him, and then he murdered him.


Could you at least add "IMO" to the end of that?
 
2013-06-25 11:39:35 AM

QueenMamaBee: For those of y'all who think GZ was perfectly justified.... I'd like to see how many of you would like to go out and pick random people and follow them. See how often that behavior results in an ass-beating.

So I guess then you could kill those people and be perfectly justified?




Following someone warrants a beating? What kinda white trash trailer park you from? If I'm following you and you turn around and start hitting me your are the agressor. And yes I would shoot you.
 
2013-06-25 11:39:43 AM
Boy oh boy. If no one here is actively following a feed of the trial, I suggest they find one.
GZ's defense has been making the State look downright silly.

The State's current witness is the neighborhood watch's coordinator. GZ's defense cross-examination has essentially turned her into a witness of the defense.

There is not a single iota of evidence that suggests GZ murdered TM. The State is struggling to piece together circumstantial evidence, while witness testimony and recorded evidence supports GZ's claim of self-defense.
 
2013-06-25 11:40:23 AM
I don't know, tho, guys. I gotta say; looking in Zimmerman's eyes, a surprise confession of a panic shooting, not an actual "it was clear my life was in danger, so I had to shoot" thought that lead to a lethal action.
 
2013-06-25 11:40:32 AM
What feed would you recommend?
 
2013-06-25 11:40:54 AM
What I want to know is....  What caliber and what handgun is able to produce a single shot fatality? Shouldn't we be ensuring the police are then armed with the same combination?
Seems the only people the police are able to kill with a single shot are innocent bystanders.
 
2013-06-25 11:41:27 AM

hinten: I know, I know, wet grass stains wipe right off. As a matter of fact, the wet grass stains came off from the rain.
And don't make me part of any team.


The police report said that an officer observed his back covered with grass. Stop twisting it and trying to claim that it was said that his back was covered with grass stains.

Attempting to pass off fabrications might even make you the captain of Team Trayvon.
 
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