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(USA Today)   Pink Floyd reunites. To slam Pandora and online streaming music services for "stealing from musicians"   (usatoday.com ) divider line
    More: Ironic, Pink Floyd, streaming media, Internet radio, pink, Tim Westergren, musicians, cheats, Sounds Good  
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2924 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 25 Jun 2013 at 5:15 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-24 08:29:35 PM  
It's good to see good ol greed can still get those guys together.
 
2013-06-24 08:35:05 PM  
Pandora pays 55% of their revenues to artist royalties. Radio stations, by comparison, pay 10% of their revenues to royalties. Do you really think Pandora is stealing from you, Pink Floyd?
 
2013-06-24 08:35:32 PM  
 
2013-06-24 08:38:38 PM  
Can I come out of retirement to say that Pink Floyd sucks?
 
2013-06-24 08:40:40 PM  

RexTalionis: Pandora pays 55% of their revenues to artist royalties. Radio stations, by comparison, pay 10% of their revenues to royalties. Do you really think Pandora is stealing from you, Pink Floyd?


Well, the other 45% isn't put towards a decent search platform.  Seriously, I know I said I wanted to throw in variety, but variety doesn't mean play the new band and other random crap for forty minutes before you come back to the original thread.

\a bit sick of Pandora, can't you tell?
 
2013-06-24 08:41:23 PM  
So the big music industry bosses that have reaped obscene profits for decades while paying their artists a paltry percentage was just fine?
 
2013-06-24 08:41:24 PM  
From the article:

The open letter to Pandora that we signed last year said, "Lets work this out as partners" and that's what we should do.

That's pretty farking hilarious coming from Pink Floyd.

You want to make money?  Go on tour.  Don't want to tour?  Want to retire?  I hope you were as smart as your music would indicate, and none of you are hurting for cash, having set up retirement plans with some of the millions you had.
 
2013-06-24 08:42:11 PM  
$10 bucks says Roger Waters wrote this and badgered the other guys into signing on.

/Also their last three albums.
 
2013-06-24 08:43:14 PM  

marius2: Can I come out of retirement to say that Pink Floyd sucks?


Flame On You Crazy Diamond
 
2013-06-24 08:43:50 PM  
Dear Pandora,

Keep your hands off my stack
Don't give me that 
Do goody good bullshiat
I'm in the hi-fidelity 
First class traveling set 
And I think I need a Lear jet

Sincerely,
Pink Floyd
 
2013-06-24 08:50:02 PM  

RexTalionis: Pandora pays 55% of their revenues to artist royalties. Radio stations, by comparison, pay 10% of their revenues to royalties. Do you really think Pandora is stealing from you, Pink Floyd?


Yeah, came in to say THIS
 
2013-06-24 08:51:49 PM  

FriarReb98: RexTalionis: Pandora pays 55% of their revenues to artist royalties. Radio stations, by comparison, pay 10% of their revenues to royalties. Do you really think Pandora is stealing from you, Pink Floyd?

Well, the other 45% isn't put towards a decent search platform.  Seriously, I know I said I wanted to throw in variety, but variety doesn't mean play the new band and other random crap for forty minutes before you come back to the original thread.

\a bit sick of Pandora, can't you tell?


Between the royalty payments and the cost of maintaining their service, Pandora has been operating with a net operating loss since they've started and the losses are just getting bigger as they're facing more competition from companies like Google and Apple.

I support them them as a subscriber because I like the service and I would like them to continue operating.
 
2013-06-24 08:53:15 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: My Song Got Played On Pandora 1 Million Times and All I Got Was $16.89, Less Than What I Make From a Single T-Shirt Sale!

Seemed relevant.


Wait, I may be wrong but are they implying Cracker making money from 'Low' has a downside for the writer?? Jesus Christ, I spent like $4 downloading Archers of Loaf, Pavement and Poi Dog Pondering music last month. That's a couple of bucks those splash in the pan moody alternatards would never have seen otherwise.

Cry a little more there guy who was on a Taco Bell compilation cassette 'artist' that celebrated 'alternative rock'. I'll wait for the New Radicals' opinion if you don't mind.
 
2013-06-24 09:01:41 PM  

Wall_of_Doodoo: Mike Chewbacca: My Song Got Played On Pandora 1 Million Times and All I Got Was $16.89, Less Than What I Make From a Single T-Shirt Sale!

Seemed relevant.

Wait, I may be wrong but are they implying Cracker making money from 'Low' has a downside for the writer?? Jesus Christ, I spent like $4 downloading Archers of Loaf, Pavement and Poi Dog Pondering music last month. That's a couple of bucks those splash in the pan moody alternatards would never have seen otherwise.

Cry a little more there guy who was on a Taco Bell compilation cassette 'artist' that celebrated 'alternative rock'. I'll wait for the New Radicals' opinion if you don't mind.


Maybe they suck, but the same songwriter got $1500 from terrestrial radio from less than 19,000 plays.

1,159,000 plays for a total of $16.89     =$.000014495 per play on Pandora
     18,797 plays for a total of $1522.72 =$.081 per play on terrestrial radio
 
2013-06-24 09:07:52 PM  
I dunno. I trust Roger. He had a giant Obama pig when I saw him do Dark Side of the Moon. Answered my question about whether Obama was a Muslim or not. No Muslim would be allowed to display their name on floating bacon.
 
2013-06-24 09:08:43 PM  
♫ There is no pain, we are just greedy... ♫
 
2013-06-24 09:10:53 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: ♫ There is no pain, we are just greedy... ♫


♫ A distant paycheck is on the horizon.. ♫
 
2013-06-24 09:11:05 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Maybe they suck, but the same songwriter got $1500 from terrestrial radio from less than 19,000 plays.

1,159,000 plays for a total of $16.89 =$.000014495 per play on Pandora
18,797 plays for a total of $1522.72 =$.081 per play on terrestrial radio


1,159,000 plays reaches 1,159,000 people on Pandora (give or take).

How many people is reached by 18,797 plays on terrestrial radio? A big metro area like New York City might have up to 157,000 listeners on a top hit radio station. Now, combine all of the listeners of terrestrial radio from the entire US who might be listening in on the song and you'll see that Pandora is paying more in royalties per listener than terrestrial radio is.

http://www.radio-media.com/song-album/articles/airplay66.html
 
2013-06-24 09:26:42 PM  

Godscrack: MaudlinMutantMollusk: ♫ There is no pain, we are just greedy... ♫

♫ A distant paycheck is on the horizon.. ♫

 You are really treating us like slaves...
 
2013-06-24 09:27:24 PM  
You played it once. You want to get paid, shut up and play it again.
I don't pay the guys who built my house every time I come in the front door. They got paid to do a job, so did you.
Do your job and get paid or shut up.
 
2013-06-24 09:33:08 PM  
don't give me that do-goody-good bullshiat
 
2013-06-24 09:36:58 PM  

bdub77: Godscrack: MaudlinMutantMollusk: ♫ There is no pain, we are just greedy... ♫

♫ A distant paycheck is on the horizon.. ♫

♫ You are really treating us like slaves...♫


♪ Your lips move, but I don't like what you're saying ♫
 
2013-06-24 10:10:29 PM  
What would they get if a radio station with 100,000 listeners played the song 10 times?

The rest of the creative world (except some book authors) have to keep working to keep the money rolling in.
 
2013-06-24 10:21:54 PM  

RexTalionis: Pandora pays 55% of their revenues to artist royalties. Radio stations, by comparison, pay 10% of their revenues to royalties. Do you really think Pandora is stealing from you, Pink Floyd?


Counterpoint - since getting Pandora, I haven't bought an album. In 5 years now. Pink Floyd gets their share of my subscription fee, but they aren't getting royalties from direct sales.

I like Pandora and I also like Pink Floyd (as well as many other artists, including a ton that I've discovered via Pandora), but I also haven't bought - or even pirated - any new albums in that time. New Daft Punk album drops? Create a new Daft Punk station, and get all the tracks, plus others from new artists that I may like.
And between Pandora and Spotify and Slacker and Last.fm and even YouTube, there's really no reason to ever buy an album, at this point.
 
2013-06-24 10:26:24 PM  
Once again proving my point that Pink Floyd sucks.
 
2013-06-24 10:38:54 PM  

monty666: Once again proving my point that Pink Floyd sucks.


Your point fails, not because its not true and factual but because the suck of Pink Floyd vs the success of :

Aerosmith
Rush
Van Halen
The Smiths
Peter Gabriel
The Eagles
Crass
Leonard Cohen
Husker du
Dave Matthews Band
Negativeland
Nickelback
and
John Prine!?!
 
2013-06-24 10:39:24 PM  
Which one's Pink?
 
2013-06-24 10:42:04 PM  

dillenger69: You played it once. You want to get paid, shut up and play it again.
I don't pay the guys who built my house every time I come in the front door. They got paid to do a job, so did you.
Do your job and get paid or shut up.


It's really cool that all those Pink Floyd CD's, tape and vinyl I have purchased over the years have all been converted to MP3's that I can play in a multitude of ways on all capable devices forever.
 
2013-06-24 11:03:58 PM  
 
2013-06-24 11:07:19 PM  

Demetrius: Which one's Pink?


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-25 12:53:48 AM  
I've never liked Pandora. I use Tune-In radio on my phone and tablet. I can look up radio stations by country and genre. A lot of radio stations all over the world are commercial-free, too.
 
2013-06-25 01:08:28 AM  
Are they not aware of what happened to Metallica when they did this type of shiat?
 
2013-06-25 01:23:05 AM  

Altair: Are they not aware of what happened to Metallica when they did this type of shiat?


In defense of Metallica, at least they occasionally reunite to write something new other than op-ed pieces biatching about money.
 
2013-06-25 01:44:45 AM  

Theaetetus: RexTalionis: Pandora pays 55% of their revenues to artist royalties. Radio stations, by comparison, pay 10% of their revenues to royalties. Do you really think Pandora is stealing from you, Pink Floyd?

Counterpoint - since getting Pandora, I haven't bought an album. In 5 years now. Pink Floyd gets their share of my subscription fee, but they aren't getting royalties from direct sales.

I like Pandora and I also like Pink Floyd (as well as many other artists, including a ton that I've discovered via Pandora), but I also haven't bought - or even pirated - any new albums in that time. New Daft Punk album drops? Create a new Daft Punk station, and get all the tracks, plus others from new artists that I may like.
And between Pandora and Spotify and Slacker and Last.fm and even YouTube, there's really no reason to ever buy an album, at this point.


As I understand it, most musicians on labels don't see a dime of the CD album sales anyway, since they wind up owing their label money on their advance.
 
2013-06-25 02:06:42 AM  
Perhaps they shouldn't have agreed to license their music then?
 
2013-06-25 05:22:18 AM  
These sorts of artist complaints will seem so quaint in about 5 years. The new generation of musicians are figuring it out.

/whine on you crazy diamond
 
2013-06-25 05:47:47 AM  

RexTalionis: Mike Chewbacca: Maybe they suck, but the same songwriter got $1500 from terrestrial radio from less than 19,000 plays.

1,159,000 plays for a total of $16.89 =$.000014495 per play on Pandora
18,797 plays for a total of $1522.72 =$.081 per play on terrestrial radio

1,159,000 plays reaches 1,159,000 people on Pandora (give or take).

How many people is reached by 18,797 plays on terrestrial radio? A big metro area like New York City might have up to 157,000 listeners on a top hit radio station. Now, combine all of the listeners of terrestrial radio from the entire US who might be listening in on the song and you'll see that Pandora is paying more in royalties per listener than terrestrial radio is.

http://www.radio-media.com/song-album/articles/airplay66.html


Yep.  Comparing number of plays between the two systems is a misleading comparison.

If you compare a diesel truck to a racing motorcycle, the truck will have far greater horsepower.  Guess which one accelerates faster?
 
2013-06-25 05:56:29 AM  
Someone needs to tell PF that digital songs are now promotional material and will eventually be given away for free. That promotional material will do what it's always done best: put people in seats at concerts, where bands make their real money.
 
2013-06-25 05:58:36 AM  
Old, greedy, out of touch, rock stars being douches, nothing new here. I love Pink Floyd but they've never been above being dicks.
 
2013-06-25 05:58:39 AM  

RexTalionis: As I understand it, most musicians on labels don't see a dime of the CD album sales anyway, since they wind up owing their label money on their advance.


The label loans you some dough to make a record - recording, printing, distro and promotion. They get a cut of the revenue and so do you. You still owe them out of your cut. I've no idea why anyone agrees to this.
  

cygnusx13: These sorts of artist complaints will seem so quaint in about 5 years. The new generation of musicians are figuring it out.

/whine on you crazy diamond


They said that ten years ago and every year since. There's no brilliant scheme to make money off music if you're a musician. Frankly, it's not even "own the means of production/distribution" since that's a farking sinkhole as well.

Live performance isn't the solution. Some fan saying "I'll buy their tshirt when they come to my town" isn't exactly profitable, considering we live in such a sprawling nation, and clubs and promoters take a chunk out of the ticket sales til you can't afford a motel room.  How many hometown shows do you see famous bands play? Almost zero, because the same or similar performance gets repetitive. And seriously, why do I need to leave the house when there are literally millions of bands online?

The musician's revolution everyone's waiting on won't happen, because it requires the musician to be good at the music business, rather than music, and that's just not going to work.

//and honestly, RTFA. Just because Pink Floyd wrote it doesn't mean it doesn't apply to the rest of us, who would kill for a $16 royalty check from internet radio. They're just the only people anyone would listen to. No one gives a fark about a press release from Clockwork Kids.
 
2013-06-25 06:00:48 AM  
25.media.tumblr.com

Hey Buddy, PF wants some of that Internet monies, or they're going to go on strike.
 
2013-06-25 06:10:06 AM  

moothemagiccow: No one gives a fark about a press release from Clockwork Kids.


Guess what, no one cares what a band that hasn't released new music or toured in years has to say either. They've made their money, no one is going to feel for them.
 
2013-06-25 06:22:27 AM  

RexTalionis: As I understand it, most musicians on labels don't see a dime of the CD album sales anyway, since they wind up owing their label money on their advance.


So the solution is to never buy music again?

digistil: Someone needs to tell PF that digital songs are now promotional material and will eventually be given away for free. That promotional material will do what it's always done best: put people in seats at concerts, where bands make their real money.


And who's going to promote the promotional material? I'm not going to fark about with math, but let's look at what a bare bones tour costs.

1. Van + trailer. Drums are big, amps are big, and you still need to fit six people in the car.
2. Insurance
3. Meals / per diem for band members
4. Meals / per diem for driver and merch guy
5. Motel for band members, driver, and merch guy
6. Club's cut of the door
7. Promoter's cut of the door.
8. Opening act's cut of the door.
9. Tshirt design and printing
10. Album design and printing
11. Merch guy's cut of the merch
12. New strings, sticks, drum heads, cables, tubes
13. Gas / repairs for van
14. Booking agent

Now if you're lucky,  50 people will show up and pay $10 to get in. That's $500 a night to split among the above 13 costs and then have something to take home. If you're luckier, someone who doesn't have 40 band tshirts already will buy one, and some idiot who still owns a CD player will buy a CD, which RexTalionis said aren't worth buying, because bands don't make money off them. You seriously think people pay rent with that? Now multiply it by a hundred, and tell me there won't be more people to pay who all want a bigger cut because you got a review on pitchfork or whatever's cool now.
 
2013-06-25 06:28:08 AM  
Oh look, the socialist Roger Waters is being a capitalist again.
 
2013-06-25 06:28:57 AM  

TheJoe03: moothemagiccow: No one gives a fark about a press release from Clockwork Kids.

Guess what, no one cares what a band that hasn't released new music or toured in years has to say either. They've made their money, no one is going to feel for them.


So ad hominem, kill the messenger is ok? Did anyone RTFA?

FTFA:Nearly 90% of the artists who get a check for digital play receive less than $5,000 a year. They cannot afford the 85% pay cut Pandora asked Congress to impose on the music community.

You think a hip mid-level band is going to get an op-ed in USA Today or a link on Fark? Hell no. They're probably at their normal job, waiting for their 2 week vacation to go on tour. Meanwhile, you're happy to ignore the new band when they do visit your town, while you're busy posting a comment on a pink floyd youtube video about how "no one makes music like this anymore."
 
2013-06-25 06:31:57 AM  
Funny, nobody is biatching about the stupidity of recording a song and then expecting to get paid every time it gets played. If some artists got their way, they'd have a coin-op on my home stereo and charge me every time I hit the play button.
 
2013-06-25 06:47:52 AM  

moothemagiccow: So ad hominem, kill the messenger is ok? Did anyone RTFA?


Way to miss the point. How about a band that is actually still together and releasing music says something instead of a bunch of rich a holes that aren't active? Don't whine about fallacies.
 
2013-06-25 06:50:59 AM  

moothemagiccow: There's no brilliant scheme to make money off music if you're a musician.


And yet, people keep making music, with no guarantees on return. It has become a purer, more egalitarian industry, coming from soul, passion and heart, not profit. It's almost as if music has become a hobby rather than a business. People make it because they love it, not to make money. The music has been freed from the shackles of target marketing an album-oriented commercial viability. Artists can now make the music they want to make, free of commercial restrictions. That can only be a good thing.

Buying commercially released music doesn't compensate the artists, it compensates the industry.

For the musician, they can always make money the way musicians have made it before the advent of recorded media: by playing it. The live performance has always been, and always will be, the bread and butter of the musician's trade.

As for the industry, I'm afraid the sun has set on that particular piece of history. No more will someone be able to write a 2.5 minute jingle and bank on royalties for the rest of their lives. And I guess deservedly so.

The internet is the greatest thing that's happened to music since the microphone. And none of the new artists want to go back to the old draconian model that raped the lives of musicians for 50 years.
 
d23 [BareFark]
2013-06-25 06:53:08 AM  
I love Pink Floyd.  I have bought about 5 or so different versions of Dark Side of the Moon.  I have three different mixes, stereo and quad versions (the quad version I can't play), SACD versions.  The only one I haven't bought is the "Immersion" version because I don't have the extra cash.  I also have various versions of Wish You Were Here and the Wall, a full collection of the original CD versions, and many of the original LPs.  I've also seen them in concert on the Division Bell tour (which cost over $100 I believe) and seen Roger Waters in concert 3 times.

...and you are going to accuse me of stealing when I hear "Money" on Pandora???
 
2013-06-25 06:57:01 AM  

TheJoe03: moothemagiccow: So ad hominem, kill the messenger is ok? Did anyone RTFA?

Way to miss the point. How about a band that is actually still together and releasing music says something instead of a bunch of rich a holes that aren't active? Don't whine about fallacies.


So that's a no, you didn't RTFA. All I know is these rich a-holes are standing up for me, while Pandora's standing up for their bottom line and screwing musicians like every music business ever has. They don't compare to Lars Ulrich.
 
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