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(CBS News)   John Kerry is very upset that the world is not licking the US government's boot heels on command any more   (cbsnews.com) divider line 136
    More: Obvious, heels, United States, entailments, Bill Plante  
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1377 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Jun 2013 at 10:51 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-24 10:24:38 AM  
It's hard to take people seriously with all of that egg on their face.
 
2013-06-24 10:28:11 AM  
You know throughout history, we gave asylum to pretty much every Russian/Soviet defector that could get here.  Tit for tat, and all that.
 
2013-06-24 10:38:08 AM  
And senior officials are very dismissive of Snowden's claim that he's advancing transparency and free speech by releasing U.S. secrets. They say that by choosing China, Russia, Ecuador and Venezuela as his protectors, his motive seems to be to injure the United States' national security.

In case those officials managed to say this with a straight face:
where do they think he should have gone if he wanted to avoid extradition while also avoiding stupid claims regarding his motive?
 
2013-06-24 10:38:48 AM  
This is all just a power grab by Putin. He wants hegemonic domination of the region along with China. Let them deal with the terrorists all around them. Good luck with that.

I'm totally cool with the US not having global domination anymore.

- Pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq completely
- Stop aid to Syria
- Pull out of NATO and the UN
- Get out of Germany, Japan, and Korea
- Reduce military presence by 75% while improving cyber-warfare capabilities - against other nations, not our own people
- Stop the war on drugs
- Use the money to fund sustainable energy projects, education, and high automation manufacturing initiatives that bring work back to the US.

Of course the world will be a worse off place to live in because of the vacuum of power, but that's what you pay for, world. So tired of being your goddamn babysitter.

This is of course my annoyed reaction to the stuff that has been largely going on for a decade now with the rise of China and Russia. This whole thing is a grey area of suck. I don't like the government spying on me, either. Snowden has become a political pawn. Good job...DICK.
 
2013-06-24 10:42:34 AM  
Putin has zero respect for Obama.  He knows it's Amateur Hour at the White House, and loves to demonstrate that to the world at every opportunity.
 
2013-06-24 10:46:27 AM  

The Voice of Doom: where do they think he should have gone if he wanted to avoid extradition while also avoiding stupid claims regarding his motive?


I'd go somewhere tropical.
 
2013-06-24 10:49:52 AM  

BravadoGT: Putin has zero respect for Obama.  He knows it's Amateur Hour at the White House, and loves to demonstrate that to the world at every opportunity.


Putin has no respect for anyone.  He's a modern day tsar.
 
2013-06-24 10:51:20 AM  
He must know something even more damnable.  The crats in charge are shoveling shiat as fast as they can to avoid a pay cut or a missed promotion.
 
2013-06-24 10:52:21 AM  

The Voice of Doom: And senior officials are very dismissive of Snowden's claim that he's advancing transparency and free speech by releasing U.S. secrets. They say that by choosing China, Russia, Ecuador and Venezuela as his protectors, his motive seems to be to injure the United States' national security.

In case those officials managed to say this with a straight face:
where do they think he should have gone if he wanted to avoid extradition while also avoiding stupid claims regarding his motive?


If he thinks his purpose is so noble, why is he running in the first place?
 
2013-06-24 10:52:32 AM  

Mentat: BravadoGT: Putin has zero respect for Obama.  He knows it's Amateur Hour at the White House, and loves to demonstrate that to the world at every opportunity.

Putin has no respect for anyone.  He's a modern day tsar.


Precisely this. I don't know why anyone thinks it would be different under any other admin - Putin's gonna poot.
 
2013-06-24 10:53:31 AM  

BravadoGT: Putin has zero respect for Obama.  He knows it's Amateur Hour at the White House, and loves to demonstrate that to the world at every opportunity.


You have misread someone who is easily read.
 
2013-06-24 10:54:21 AM  

ManateeGag: The Voice of Doom: And senior officials are very dismissive of Snowden's claim that he's advancing transparency and free speech by releasing U.S. secrets. They say that by choosing China, Russia, Ecuador and Venezuela as his protectors, his motive seems to be to injure the United States' national security.

In case those officials managed to say this with a straight face:
where do they think he should have gone if he wanted to avoid extradition while also avoiding stupid claims regarding his motive?

If he thinks his purpose is so noble, why is he running in the first place?


Prudence?
 
2013-06-24 10:54:22 AM  
I never thought Kerry was any great bastion of progressive values, but for some reason to see people like him, Feinstein and Franken fall in lock-step with this madness is kind of disheartening. (Granted Kerry is in a different position now but still). At this point I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Bernie Sanders starts spewing the talking points as well.
 
2013-06-24 10:54:56 AM  

BravadoGT: Amateur Hour at the White House


*chug*
 
2013-06-24 10:56:08 AM  

ManateeGag: The Voice of Doom: And senior officials are very dismissive of Snowden's claim that he's advancing transparency and free speech by releasing U.S. secrets. They say that by choosing China, Russia, Ecuador and Venezuela as his protectors, his motive seems to be to injure the United States' national security.

In case those officials managed to say this with a straight face:
where do they think he should have gone if he wanted to avoid extradition while also avoiding stupid claims regarding his motive?

If he thinks his purpose is so noble, why is he running in the first place?


You don't have to be a martyr to be noble.
 
2013-06-24 10:56:27 AM  

ManateeGag: The Voice of Doom: And senior officials are very dismissive of Snowden's claim that he's advancing transparency and free speech by releasing U.S. secrets. They say that by choosing China, Russia, Ecuador and Venezuela as his protectors, his motive seems to be to injure the United States' national security.

In case those officials managed to say this with a straight face:
where do they think he should have gone if he wanted to avoid extradition while also avoiding stupid claims regarding his motive?

If he thinks his purpose is so noble, why is he running in the first place?


Cause he is guilty until proven innocent?  He will be denied his basic right to counsel?  Take your pick, the US government regularly spits on the basic rights of its citizens and he proved it.
 
2013-06-24 10:56:29 AM  
Will the consequences ever be the same?
 
2013-06-24 10:56:32 AM  

LasersHurt: Mentat: BravadoGT: Putin has zero respect for Obama.  He knows it's Amateur Hour at the White House, and loves to demonstrate that to the world at every opportunity.

Putin has no respect for anyone.  He's a modern day tsar.

Precisely this. I don't know why anyone thinks it would be different under any other admin - Putin's gonna poot.


Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent.  Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)
 
2013-06-24 10:59:23 AM  

BravadoGT: LasersHurt: Mentat: BravadoGT: Putin has zero respect for Obama.  He knows it's Amateur Hour at the White House, and loves to demonstrate that to the world at every opportunity.

Putin has no respect for anyone.  He's a modern day tsar.

Precisely this. I don't know why anyone thinks it would be different under any other admin - Putin's gonna poot.

Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent.  Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)


As opposed to? Someone who would start something stupid because he felt spurned by Putin?
 
2013-06-24 10:59:53 AM  

BravadoGT: Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent. Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)


And what would a "Strong opponent" do in a situation like this?
 
2013-06-24 11:00:54 AM  

Lexx: ManateeGag: The Voice of Doom: And senior officials are very dismissive of Snowden's claim that he's advancing transparency and free speech by releasing U.S. secrets. They say that by choosing China, Russia, Ecuador and Venezuela as his protectors, his motive seems to be to injure the United States' national security.

In case those officials managed to say this with a straight face:
where do they think he should have gone if he wanted to avoid extradition while also avoiding stupid claims regarding his motive?

If he thinks his purpose is so noble, why is he running in the first place?

You don't have to be a martyr to be noble.


You sure don't.  Operating under the premise that what he did was in fact noble, what would his incarceration add to it?

He's already got his consequence.  He can't come back to the states, and he'll have to watch out for sneaky extradition stuff.  It's a bit hard to get outraged at the fact that he's going to get away with it, it's not like he blew up a bus full of children or something.
 
2013-06-24 11:01:14 AM  
ManateeGag:
If he thinks his purpose is so noble, why is he running in the first place?

He who fights and runs away lives to run another day.
 
2013-06-24 11:02:39 AM  
International cooperation depends on countries honoring commitments and doing each other favors - I'm guessing Ecuador doesn't give a shiate about getting anything from the US ever again - They are harboring  Assange and now Snowden.
 
2013-06-24 11:03:14 AM  

nekom: Lexx: ManateeGag: The Voice of Doom: And senior officials are very dismissive of Snowden's claim that he's advancing transparency and free speech by releasing U.S. secrets. They say that by choosing China, Russia, Ecuador and Venezuela as his protectors, his motive seems to be to injure the United States' national security.

In case those officials managed to say this with a straight face:
where do they think he should have gone if he wanted to avoid extradition while also avoiding stupid claims regarding his motive?

If he thinks his purpose is so noble, why is he running in the first place?

You don't have to be a martyr to be noble.

You sure don't.  Operating under the premise that what he did was in fact noble, what would his incarceration add to it?

He's already got his consequence.  He can't come back to the states, and he'll have to watch out for sneaky extradition stuff.  It's a bit hard to get outraged at the fact that he's going to get away with it, it's not like he blew up a bus full of children or something.


Wait til we find him jacking off on the streets of San Diego.
 
2013-06-24 11:03:18 AM  

Aarontology: BravadoGT: Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent. Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)

And what would a "Strong opponent" do in a situation like this?


Maybe nothing would be different--I don't know.  But with Obama, there's not the healthy respect we need to instill in the Russians, and that sets the stage for each confrontation.
 
2013-06-24 11:03:19 AM  

vernonFL: International cooperation depends on countries honoring commitments and doing each other favors - I'm guessing Ecuador doesn't give a shiate about getting anything from the US ever again - They are harboring  Assange and now Snowden.


That sounds less like honoring commitments and more like extortion.
 
2013-06-24 11:03:24 AM  

BravadoGT: LasersHurt: Mentat: BravadoGT: Putin has zero respect for Obama.  He knows it's Amateur Hour at the White House, and loves to demonstrate that to the world at every opportunity.

Putin has no respect for anyone.  He's a modern day tsar.

Precisely this. I don't know why anyone thinks it would be different under any other admin - Putin's gonna poot.

Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent.  Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)


Laughter OL...is this an honest-to-God, non-ironic "weak in the eyes of the Soviets" post?

What year is this?
 
2013-06-24 11:04:42 AM  

BravadoGT: Aarontology: BravadoGT: Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent. Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)

And what would a "Strong opponent" do in a situation like this?

Maybe nothing would be different--I don't know.  But with Obama, there's not the healthy respect we need to instill in the Russians, and that sets the stage for each confrontation. it's bad.

 
2013-06-24 11:04:45 AM  

BravadoGT: Maybe nothing would be different--I don't know. But with Obama, there's not the healthy respect we need to instill in the Russians, and that sets the stage for each confrontation.


And how would Obama garner that healthy respect from Putin you say he lacks?
 
2013-06-24 11:04:59 AM  

Aarontology: BravadoGT: Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent. Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)

And what would a "Strong opponent" do in a situation like this?


I'm pretty sure that a Strong Opponent would look directly into his soul before letting him run roughshod over Georgia.
 
2013-06-24 11:05:13 AM  

Aarontology: That sounds less like honoring commitments and more like extortion.


Well that is kind of how foreign policy works. If you want us to cooperate with you in the future, you should cooperate with us on this thing now.
 
2013-06-24 11:05:13 AM  

Karma Chameleon: I never thought Kerry was any great bastion of progressive values, but for some reason to see people like him, Feinstein and Franken fall in lock-step with this madness is kind of disheartening. (Granted Kerry is in a different position now but still). At this point I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Bernie Sanders starts spewing the talking points as well.


Senator Feinstein is a known authoritarian. Her support of authoritarian policies should not be surprising.
 
2013-06-24 11:06:20 AM  

sigdiamond2000: BravadoGT: LasersHurt: Mentat: BravadoGT: Putin has zero respect for Obama.  He knows it's Amateur Hour at the White House, and loves to demonstrate that to the world at every opportunity.

Putin has no respect for anyone.  He's a modern day tsar.

Precisely this. I don't know why anyone thinks it would be different under any other admin - Putin's gonna poot.

Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent.  Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)

Laughter OL...is this an honest-to-God, non-ironic "weak in the eyes of the Soviets" post?

What year is this?


Well if you're liberal 2006, conservative 2013. Partisan politics at its best!
 
2013-06-24 11:06:47 AM  

BravadoGT: LasersHurt: Mentat: BravadoGT: Putin has zero respect for Obama.  He knows it's Amateur Hour at the White House, and loves to demonstrate that to the world at every opportunity.

Putin has no respect for anyone.  He's a modern day tsar.

Precisely this. I don't know why anyone thinks it would be different under any other admin - Putin's gonna poot.

Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent.  Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)


Obama doesn't want another war, or even to setup the possibility of another war. Wars suck. They are costly, they are a terrible investment on an overall basis. Putin wants to exert his authority for nation states he wants to keep in power, like Syria. Like Obama, Putin is worried about extremists, especially since Russia is such a big player in the energy trade. Keeping Obama off balance with this Snowden thing obviously plays into his hands.

Putin is leveraging this because of the Syrian conflict. He likes everyone to know he's harboring Snowden. Snowden just doesn't want to go to jail, so he's letting other countries use him to get freedom.

The EU is mostly staying out of this because it supports the US initiative to give arms to Syria.

I'm pretty ambivalent about Syria. Civil wars suck, Assad sucks but the rebels are a mix of people we mostly don't want to be in control of that country, and we've already seen how fair elections in islamic countries don't always play to our advantage - see Egypt. Give the rebels armed or not, it's pretty much damned either way - if Assad wins it'll be basically a genocide, if the rebels win and we don't give them arms then we'll just be another enemy of the new Islamic controlled state. If we give them arms, well it'll still be an Islamic controlled state and now they have more weapons - you know, like Afghanistan pre-Taliban.
 
2013-06-24 11:07:21 AM  

nekom: Lexx: ManateeGag: The Voice of Doom: And senior officials are very dismissive of Snowden's claim that he's advancing transparency and free speech by releasing U.S. secrets. They say that by choosing China, Russia, Ecuador and Venezuela as his protectors, his motive seems to be to injure the United States' national security.

In case those officials managed to say this with a straight face:
where do they think he should have gone if he wanted to avoid extradition while also avoiding stupid claims regarding his motive?

If he thinks his purpose is so noble, why is he running in the first place?

You don't have to be a martyr to be noble.

You sure don't.  Operating under the premise that what he did was in fact noble, what would his incarceration add to it?

He's already got his consequence.  He can't come back to the states, and he'll have to watch out for sneaky extradition stuff.  It's a bit hard to get outraged at the fact that he's going to get away with it, it's not like he blew up a bus full of children or something.


Oh, he'll get his.  The USA really can't allow him to live, that's not how central governments roll with whistleblowers.
 
2013-06-24 11:09:12 AM  

BravadoGT: Aarontology: BravadoGT: Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent. Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)

And what would a "Strong opponent" do in a situation like this?

Maybe nothing would be different--I don't know.  But with Obama, there's not the healthy respect we need to instill in the Russians, and that sets the stage for each confrontation.


Okay, grandpa, time to stop telling Cold War stories and get ready for bed.
 
2013-06-24 11:09:31 AM  

Dimensio: Karma Chameleon: I never thought Kerry was any great bastion of progressive values, but for some reason to see people like him, Feinstein and Franken fall in lock-step with this madness is kind of disheartening. (Granted Kerry is in a different position now but still). At this point I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Bernie Sanders starts spewing the talking points as well.

Senator Feinstein is a known authoritarian. Her support of authoritarian policies should not be surprising.


You're right. I guess I just feel like she is getting worse. In any event this whole thing has me super bummed out. It's not about partisan politics anymore. It's just a sad state of affairs for everyone in the country.
 
2013-06-24 11:09:55 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I'm pretty sure that a Strong Opponent would look directly into his soul before letting him run roughshod over Georgia.


Or perhaps block the Soviet placement of missiles in Cuba!

vernonFL: Well that is kind of how foreign policy works. If you want us to cooperate with you in the future, you should cooperate with us on this thing now.


You seem to be confusing cooperation with coercion
 
2013-06-24 11:10:46 AM  

BravadoGT: Aarontology: BravadoGT: Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent. Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)

And what would a "Strong opponent" do in a situation like this?

Maybe nothing would be different--I don't know.  But with Obama, there's not the healthy respect we need to instill in the Russians, and that sets the stage for each confrontation.


No sorry -- you don't get away with that.  It's awfully easy to criticize when you don't have to come up with an actual alternative.  Tell us.  What specifically should Obama be doing to prove he's a "strong opponent"?
 
2013-06-24 11:12:37 AM  
Do as I say not as I do, rest of the world.  It's different when the US does it, because they're the Good GuysTM.
 
2013-06-24 11:13:48 AM  

vernonFL: International cooperation depends on countries honouring commitments and doing each other favours - I'm guessing Ecuador doesn't give a shiate about getting anything from the US ever again - They are harboring Assange and now Snowden.


The US has spewed the same line over and over: they don't want Assange and won't be extraditing him from Sweden. So, they aren't harbouring him from anyone except Sweden.  Unless the US is lying on the matter.

That'd be shocking. /s
 
2013-06-24 11:14:41 AM  
Wow. What happened to the Democrats? They used to be cool.
 
2013-06-24 11:15:29 AM  

urbangirl: BravadoGT: Aarontology: BravadoGT: Putin may not LIKE anyone, but he'd at least respect a strong opponent. Unfortunately, he knows that he can do and say just about anything and Obama won't do a damn thing about it (except maybe beg for flexibility.)

And what would a "Strong opponent" do in a situation like this?

Maybe nothing would be different--I don't know.  But with Obama, there's not the healthy respect we need to instill in the Russians, and that sets the stage for each confrontation.

No sorry -- you don't get away with that.  It's awfully easy to criticize when you don't have to come up with an actual alternative.  Tell us.  What specifically should Obama be doing to prove he's a "strong opponent"?


Plus, Putin's "respect" for a blatant warmonger like Bush was so great that he gave Bush the finger and invaded Georgia in '08.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-24 11:18:04 AM  
Aarontology:

That sounds less like honoring commitments and more like extortion.

The way a business that doesn't take checks from people who have bounced checks to them before is guilty of extortion?
 
2013-06-24 11:18:14 AM  
Once upon a time in Washington DC. the President of the USA said to the world, "You're either with us or against us."  That was the moment the rest of the world said,  "Did you hear that, it sounded like a monkey farted."  and the rest of the world ignored the USA for a long time.  The End.
 
2013-06-24 11:18:18 AM  

Aarontology: Rapmaster2000: I'm pretty sure that a Strong Opponent would look directly into his soul before letting him run roughshod over Georgia.

Or perhaps remove missiles from Turkey in exchange for the Soviet removal of missiles from Cuba under a secret agreement that allows both leaders to save face!


There we go.  I'm not really sure I follow your point, BTW.
 
2013-06-24 11:18:38 AM  

Karma Chameleon: I never thought Kerry was any great bastion of progressive values, but for some reason to see people like him, Feinstein and Franken fall in lock-step with this madness is kind of disheartening. (Granted Kerry is in a different position now but still). At this point I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Bernie Sanders starts spewing the talking points as well.


You shut your mouth when talking about Bernie that way.

/I'm skeered too.
 
2013-06-24 11:19:50 AM  
A pretty good opportunity to see US policy through Putin's eyes.

Putin talks NSA, Syria, Iran, drones in exclusive RT interview
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-24 11:20:26 AM  

Dimensio: Karma Chameleon: I never thought Kerry was any great bastion of progressive values, but for some reason to see people like him, Feinstein and Franken fall in lock-step with this madness is kind of disheartening. (Granted Kerry is in a different position now but still). At this point I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Bernie Sanders starts spewing the talking points as well.

Senator Feinstein is a known authoritarian. Her support of authoritarian policies should not be surprising.


Not wanting people to be gunned down is pretty authoritarian.
 
2013-06-24 11:20:36 AM  

Aarontology: BravadoGT: Maybe nothing would be different--I don't know. But with Obama, there's not the healthy respect we need to instill in the Russians, and that sets the stage for each confrontation.

And how would Obama garner that healthy respect from Putin you say he lacks?


Let me guess; By turning into a white Republican?
 
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