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(Tech Crunch)   NADA: Tesla's Model S makes our cars look obsolete so please pass a law making it illegal to register one in NY. NY State Assembly: HOW ABOUT NO   (techcrunch.com) divider line 61
    More: Dumbass, New York State assemblyman, Model S, New York, direct selling, car dealership, CEO Elon Musk, shelfs, Tesla Motors  
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4038 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Jun 2013 at 8:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-24 08:42:11 AM
This is a textbook case of 'rent-seeking behavior'.  Econ 101.

/there's more of this kind of thing going on than you realize
 
2013-06-24 08:46:05 AM
About 50% of the human race is middle-men and they don't take kindly to being eliminated.
 
2013-06-24 08:51:13 AM
b..b..but, Tesla is a failure so there's nothing to worry about!
 
2013-06-24 09:04:45 AM
fark the dealerships. fark em right in their stupid faces. I hate everything about them, except the cars. The constant barrage of commercials, with stupid catch-phrases and costumes, or in the case of one of the local idiots here, his fark-ugly kid and a goat(!?) in all of his weekly spots, the sleazy salespeople begging you to come out so they can hang all over you like a meat backpack until you buy something or leave... just farking stop already.

And then they want you to haggle. WTF is that shiat? So the guy that just left here with the same car I'm looking to buy got a better price because he has better people skills? Go fark yourself. Take the "dealer-installed" options, prep fees, seven different levels of warranty they're going to force on you, the sales manager that has to be consulted to get me a "better deal"... just take it all and go fark yourselves.

I buy things ALL THE TIME. Why does buying a car have to be such a complicated and infuriating experience? Because dealerships. Hey, here's an idea... sell cars like we sell everything else in this country... put a price on it and sell it at that price, cut all the bullshiat dog and pony show, cut out the eight people standing between you and your new car that all demand a piece of the action before you can drive off the lot, just cut the crap and let me buy a goddamned car already.

Holy shiat, hallelujah... where's the tylenol?
 
2013-06-24 09:11:30 AM

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: fark the dealerships. fark em right in their stupid faces. I hate everything about them, except the cars. The constant barrage of commercials, with stupid catch-phrases and costumes, or in the case of one of the local idiots here, his fark-ugly kid and a goat(!?) in all of his weekly spots, the sleazy salespeople begging you to come out so they can hang all over you like a meat backpack until you buy something or leave... just farking stop already.

And then they want you to haggle. WTF is that shiat? So the guy that just left here with the same car I'm looking to buy got a better price because he has better people skills? Go fark yourself. Take the "dealer-installed" options, prep fees, seven different levels of warranty they're going to force on you, the sales manager that has to be consulted to get me a "better deal"... just take it all and go fark yourselves.

I buy things ALL THE TIME. Why does buying a car have to be such a complicated and infuriating experience? Because dealerships. Hey, here's an idea... sell cars like we sell everything else in this country... put a price on it and sell it at that price, cut all the bullshiat dog and pony show, cut out the eight people standing between you and your new car that all demand a piece of the action before you can drive off the lot, just cut the crap and let me buy a goddamned car already.

Holy shiat, hallelujah... where's the tylenol?


img.fark.net

/check your gasket, I think its blown
 
2013-06-24 09:21:22 AM
If the court and government stop being corrupt, how are corporatations supposed to do business?
 
2013-06-24 09:22:33 AM

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: fark the dealerships. fark em right in their stupid faces. I hate everything about them, except the cars.... just cut the crap and let me buy a goddamned car already.


This is exactly why I bought my car at Carmax.

The other day I went to my local Mazda dealer to replace the funky little battery. As I was driving to the parts area, a dealer guy shouted at me, "HEY! NICE MIATA! YOU WANNA REPLACE IT WITH A NEW ONE TODAY?" I hadn't even parked the damned car yet.
 
2013-06-24 09:28:43 AM
ltdanman44:
[img.fark.net image 810x470]

/check your gasket, I think its blown


"I'll tell you what, if you buy today, I'll cut you a deal on our premium gasket package. We'll roll it into your financed amount, and then you're only paying $6 a day to have us install unobtanium gaskets blessed with the ashes of Henry Ford himself!"

images.sodahead.com
Mmphmphokay.
 
2013-06-24 09:35:16 AM
TFA fails to mention that third party auto dealerships are required in most every state.  Direct selling by car makers was outlawed from the start of the industry.

It's all to support local small business, ya know.
 
2013-06-24 09:44:20 AM

Mad_Radhu: About 50% of the human race is middle-men and they don't take kindly to being eliminated.

 
2013-06-24 09:48:03 AM
They've really slipped since Homer became The Chosen One.

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-24 10:16:28 AM

SDRR: Mad_Radhu: About 50% of the human race is middle-men and they don't take kindly to being eliminated.


They should find a better job.
 
2013-06-24 10:19:05 AM
Car dealerships exist because people want to test drive most cars before they buy them.
HOWEVER, it should be buyer choice. If direct sales is requested then it should be allowed.

If people want to buy a Tesla, or any car, without a test drive.. then more power to them. However, if you direct buy then there should be no obligation to the dealer to take delivery and prep the vehicle. Let the dealer willing to take their prep fee out of the corporate sales price get the business. See which model people really prefer over time.
 
hej
2013-06-24 10:21:44 AM

BHShaman: Car dealerships exist because people want to test drive most cars before they buy them.
HOWEVER, it should be buyer choice. If direct sales is requested then it should be allowed.

If people want to buy a Tesla, or any car, without a test drive.. then more power to them. However, if you direct buy then there should be no obligation to the dealer to take delivery and prep the vehicle. Let the dealer willing to take their prep fee out of the corporate sales price get the business. See which model people really prefer over time.


How does a store being run by the manufacturer instead of a 3rd party have anything at all to do with taking a test drive?
 
2013-06-24 10:37:04 AM

BHShaman: Car dealerships exist because people want to test drive most cars before they buy them.


Car dealerships exist because when auto were first sold, the manufacturers didn't want to open up their own stores.  Dealerships gave the manufacturers a reliable consumer.  They would pump out cars and require the dealer to buy the units regardless of weather they were selling well or not.  The dealer had to eat the crap and extra models because it was required to keep the franchise.  The dealers fought back, collectively, under the NADA to protect themselves.

At no time was the dealer model made with the idea to benefit the consumer.

I agree that a dealer should not have any obligation to take delivery of a car and prep it if there is a dealer for a direct buy from a manufactures.  However I would imagine that a car company run by a man that also runs a company that puts things into orbit would figure out some sort of support and delivery method of the product.  It works with other items, I can't imagine that similar support models would not work with cars.
 
2013-06-24 10:38:38 AM
I saw a Tesla on the road the other day. I had never seen one in person before. It was pretty badass.
 
2013-06-24 11:03:05 AM

hej: BHShaman: Car dealerships exist because people want to test drive most cars before they buy them.
HOWEVER, it should be buyer choice. If direct sales is requested then it should be allowed.

If people want to buy a Tesla, or any car, without a test drive.. then more power to them. However, if you direct buy then there should be no obligation to the dealer to take delivery and prep the vehicle. Let the dealer willing to take their prep fee out of the corporate sales price get the business. See which model people really prefer over time.

How does a store being run by the manufacturer instead of a 3rd party have anything at all to do with taking a test drive?


Because... hey, Crazy Bob is rolling around in a Sherman tank painted purple! How awesome is that!

Real answer: consumers think there is "one way" to do things and hate thinking about better ways of doing things.
 
2013-06-24 11:16:24 AM

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: And then they want you to haggle. WTF is that shiat? So the guy that just left here with the same car I'm looking to buy got a better price because he has better people skills? Go fark yourself.


Great rant.

Here's what I did when I last bought a new car (December, 2012). First, I did my own homework and determined exactly the car I wanted. In the old days this might have required the expert service of a car dealer, but nowadays with this "internet" thing it's easy.

Then, I sent an email out to all area dealers for this car asking them what their best price would be. I let them know that I was doing this, and so there was motivation to send back a good price. I got back a $5000 range of prices. After a little more research, I decided that the lowest one was a pretty good deal -- but it was from a dealer that was about a two hour drive away. I didn't feel like driving that far, so I printed out the email and took it to the nearest dealer. They tried to do the old song and dance, four-square kind of thing, but I pulled out the email and said "I want this price. I want to buy from you, but if you can't meet this price, I'll go buy from them." After discussing it with the "manager", they agreed. I wrote a check and drove away with the car.

/that sounded more CSB in my head
//screw NADA, go Tesla!
 
2013-06-24 11:35:33 AM

Mad_Radhu: About 50% of the human race is middle-men and they don't take kindly to being eliminated.


www.explore-science-fiction-movies.com
 
2013-06-24 11:38:00 AM
Here in downtown St. Louis there was a Fiat showroom. You couldn't buy the car or get anything serviced: just information.

Another dealer had a problem with this an invoked some state law to get the place shut down. Why the should the state care?

/Hates dealers
//Not looking forward to buying my next car
 
2013-06-24 11:49:26 AM

hej: BHShaman: Car dealerships exist because people want to test drive most cars before they buy them.
HOWEVER, it should be buyer choice. If direct sales is requested then it should be allowed.

If people want to buy a Tesla, or any car, without a test drive.. then more power to them. However, if you direct buy then there should be no obligation to the dealer to take delivery and prep the vehicle. Let the dealer willing to take their prep fee out of the corporate sales price get the business. See which model people really prefer over time.

How does a store being run by the manufacturer instead of a 3rd party have anything at all to do with taking a test drive?


And what does "take delivery and prep" mean, either?

My grocery store "takes delivery" of canned beans by unloading a truck.  They then "prep" the beans by removing the cans from the case and putting them on a shelf.
 
2013-06-24 11:50:03 AM

FrancoFile: This is a textbook case of 'rent-seeking behavior'.  Econ 101.

/there's more of this kind of thing going on than you realize


I'm beginning to think that tuition I paid for that Econ class I had to take wasn't worth it.

I had never heard of this 'rent-seeking behavior' you mentioned. After a quick always 100% accurate wiki read, I now have a much greater although staggeringly less than rudimentary understanding of the concept.

Thank you FrancoFile for bringing this concept to my attention.  You have taken me one step closer to being merely pathetic.

The things I don't know could fill a book.  Actually, they already do fill books.  Librarys worth of them.
 
2013-06-24 12:09:26 PM

FrancoFile: And what does "take delivery and prep" mean, either?

My grocery store "takes delivery" of canned beans by unloading a truck.  They then "prep" the beans by removing the cans from the case and putting them on a shelf.


And yet you don't get a hard sell from the butcher about having to talk to the manager about your order of one pound of sliced turkey.
 
2013-06-24 12:15:49 PM

Tricky Chicken: I had never heard of this 'rent-seeking behavior' you mentioned


where the hell did you take the course? Rent-seeking IS econ 101.
 
2013-06-24 12:16:50 PM

Tricky Chicken: FrancoFile: This is a textbook case of 'rent-seeking behavior'.  Econ 101.

/there's more of this kind of thing going on than you realize

I'm beginning to think that tuition I paid for that Econ class I had to take wasn't worth it.

I had never heard of this 'rent-seeking behavior' you mentioned. After a quick always 100% accurate wiki read, I now have a much greater although staggeringly less than rudimentary understanding of the concept.

Thank you FrancoFile for bringing this concept to my attention.  You have taken me one step closer to being merely pathetic.

The things I don't know could fill a book.  Actually, they already do fill books.  Librarys worth of them.


here...have fun!
 
2013-06-24 12:18:40 PM

Tricky Chicken: The things I don't know could fill a book.  Actually, they already do fill books.  Librarys worth of them.


"I know that I know nothing" - Socrates

I'm thinking Fark could toss some far flamier responses at you but I think this is probably the fairest. Libraries full of concepts, information, and general wisdom exist that I will never have a chance (or in some cases I'll admit interest too) to read.
 
2013-06-24 12:21:56 PM
flaminio:
Then, I sent an email out to all area dealers for this car asking them what their best price would be. I let them know that I was doing this, and so there was motivation to send back a good price. I got back a $5000 range of prices. After a little more research, I decided that the lowest one was a pretty good deal -- but it was from a dealer that was about a two hour drive away. I didn't feel like driving that far, so I printed out the email and took it to the nearest dealer. They tried to do the old song and dance, four-square kind of thing, but I pulled out the email and said "I want this price. I want to buy from you, but if you can't meet this price, I'll go buy from them." After discussing it with the "manager", they agreed. I wrote a check and drove away with the car.

I had a similar experience at a dealership in the Tyson's Corner area in VA. Haggled on price for a while and then the guy starts with the "add on fees"  on the side of the workup sheet. Started knocking those off until I came down to one that read "Dealer location adjustment fee". I asked him what that meant, and he said "Oh, that's the additional cost recovery we have to add for being located here in the heart of Tyson's Corner." I laughed and said, "So, uh, then why should I bother buying from you here and not go eight miles west to another Nissan dealer where I don't have to put up with this?"  Blank stare for a moment, and the guy flashes a smile to say "Well, but you would be buying your car here in the heart of Tyson's, and we're conveniently located right here in the middle of everything."

Got up and walked out, with the "manager" trying to further negotiate the price with me on the way out the door. Jackasses......

/didn't go back
//screw Rosenthal Nissan....and most car dealers, for that matter
 
2013-06-24 12:55:14 PM

mr lawson: Tricky Chicken: I had never heard of this 'rent-seeking behavior' you mentioned

where the hell did you take the course? Rent-seeking IS econ 101.


Well, in defense of my alma mater, it could have very well have been covered in detail.  However, I did not give the course the focus and respect I should have at the time.  I approached it as a general eductaion requirement that I only needed to complete and move on.

Sadly, I got an A in the course.  Just one of those study for the test and forget it types I guess.
 
2013-06-24 01:00:04 PM
Last vehicle I purchased was through my credit union. Found the van I wanted and went into the office to "negotiate". Called the credit union and handed my phone to the salesman. Got it for $100 over invoice, saved almost $5K and zero hassles. Salesman was not happy.
 
2013-06-24 01:10:30 PM
Isn't it unconstitutional to create a law that targets one person or group specifically?
 
2013-06-24 01:13:37 PM

Tricky Chicken: The things I don't know could fill a book. Actually, they already do fill books. Librarys worth of them.


Apparently including books on the proper pluralization of common possessive nouns.

/libraries'
// I kid, I kid
 
2013-06-24 01:18:12 PM

germ78: Isn't it unconstitutional to create a law that targets one person or group specifically?


The 14th Amendment is probably the most argued about of any beyond the original first 10.
 
2013-06-24 01:54:36 PM

wingnut396: However I would imagine that a car company run by a man that also runs a company that puts things into orbit would figure out some sort of support and delivery method of the product. It works with other items, I can't imagine that similar support models would not work with cars.


They pretty much have worked out such a delivery method. It turns out car dealers and their political contributions don't like it, so here we are.

WTF do I need a car salesman for, anyway? If I'm buying a car, I can figure out what car I want to buy and how much I should be paying for it on my own. Sure, idiots might still need a dealer to tell them what they need and how much it should cost, but they're idiots. There is a saying about them and their money.
 
2013-06-24 02:04:06 PM

FrancoFile: germ78: Isn't it unconstitutional to create a law that targets one person or group specifically?

The 14th Amendment is probably the most argued about of any beyond the original first 10.


Well, nobody seems to biatch much about the 3rd.
 
2013-06-24 02:10:24 PM
I've no problem with either model, really, as long as the other is not outlawed.

If manufacturers controlled distribution then people who say, "I saved $5000 by buying from another dealer an hour away," wouldn't exist. The price would be the same everywhere so the only competition would be between manufacturers which would not be as efficient.

While I also dislike dealers, even ones I have trusted in the past, I also am a member of the "I saved $6,000 by driving two hours" club. Certainly Audi itself would not offer me the same car for $6,000 less in a market only two hours away.

/it doesn't hurt that my local Audi dealer is not very good
//their salesman thought I should pay sticker on a car I was eligible for $3,000 in incentives on
 
2013-06-24 02:11:49 PM
A friend of mine went through the car-buying adventure recently. His tale, Reader's Digest condensed style: Found the car he wanted about 2 hours away. Tried to buy through local dealer, and dealer 2 hours away wouldn't swap the car because they "had interested parties in that particular car." He went to the dealer 2 hours away, the one who actually had the car. That dealer wouldn't honor the price listed online, because that price was reserved for recent college grads or brand loyalty buyers. He left. A couple days later, they called him back offering about 50% of the price differential between the online price and their asking price, saying they really wanted the business.

So much for those "interested parties."

I was pretty fortunate when I bought my current car. The salesman didn't try to pressure me to buy the car he had on the lot (it was white, I wanted black), they got the car I was looking for (which I'd test-driven at another dealership), and I got the price I wanted. It was a good experience all around. And not surprisingly, the salesman no longer worked there by my second oil change.

I'm hoping Tesla succeeds with the direct-sale option. I understand the dealership model, but it's not like Tesla is putting dealerships out of business by withdrawing. They're just depriving the giants of another brand to sell, and a niche brand at that.
 
2013-06-24 02:18:52 PM

groppet: I saw a Tesla on the road the other day. I had never seen one in person before. It was pretty badass.


Yep, my friend used to have one - so cool looking, so futuristic looking!

fp.images.autos.msn.com

All Tesla has to do is play by the rules, same as every other automaker, and get a few dealers.  I understand that there exist some really crappy, sleaze-ball dealers, but why is it a forgone conclusion that Tesla Dealers would fall into the same shameful tactics?   Is Tesla claiming that it is *impossible* to find a decent person to sell you a car, and if that's the case, what makes them immune from having those very same individuals in their own internal sales/marketing department?

Of course, if Tesla is allowed to make direct sales, then so should all the other makes. It'll be interesting to see if Tesla changes their strategy when they're trying to sell 200,000 units a year.
 
2013-06-24 02:27:13 PM

flaminio: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: And then they want you to haggle. WTF is that shiat? So the guy that just left here with the same car I'm looking to buy got a better price because he has better people skills? Go fark yourself.

Great rant.

Here's what I did when I last bought a new car (December, 2012). First, I did my own homework and determined exactly the car I wanted. In the old days this might have required the expert service of a car dealer, but nowadays with this "internet" thing it's easy.

Then, I sent an email out to all area dealers for this car asking them what their best price would be. I let them know that I was doing this, and so there was motivation to send back a good price. I got back a $5000 range of prices. After a little more research, I decided that the lowest one was a pretty good deal -- but it was from a dealer that was about a two hour drive away. I didn't feel like driving that far, so I printed out the email and took it to the nearest dealer. They tried to do the old song and dance, four-square kind of thing, but I pulled out the email and said "I want this price. I want to buy from you, but if you can't meet this price, I'll go buy from them." After discussing it with the "manager", they agreed. I wrote a check and drove away with the car.

/that sounded more CSB in my head
//screw NADA, go Tesla!


I did pretty much the same thing, except I went from the one dealer to the other dealer while test driving the car. I told salesman #2 that  thiswas the car I was going to buy, unless he could offer me a better deal.  You better believe he did, because he knew that if he let me walk out, I was going straight back to the other dealer.

BTW- what's the margin that Tesla is making on their cars?  The reason I ask, is because is a Tesla customer really getting a better deal by not haggling?  Once there's more than a single BEV per category to compare (Model S /= Leaf), then that's where the profit margin really begins to matter.  Who's willing to cut the profits the most to get the sales?
 
2013-06-24 02:31:19 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: groppet: I saw a Tesla on the road the other day. I had never seen one in person before. It was pretty badass.

Yep, my friend used to have one - so cool looking, so futuristic looking!

[fp.images.autos.msn.com image 380x228]

All Tesla has to do is play by the rules, same as every other automaker, and get a few dealers.  I understand that there exist some really crappy, sleaze-ball dealers, but why is it a forgone conclusion that Tesla Dealers would fall into the same shameful tactics?   Is Tesla claiming that it is *impossible* to find a decent person to sell you a car, and if that's the case, what makes them immune from having those very same individuals in their own internal sales/marketing department?

Of course, if Tesla is allowed to make direct sales, then so should all the other makes. It'll be interesting to see if Tesla changes their strategy when they're trying to sell 200,000 units a year.


I would LOVE for this to be the case.  Go online, do one of those "build your car" things and then click a button, pay for it (either your own financing or they could finance for you), and in a month, have it delivered to your door.
 
2013-06-24 02:41:55 PM

meanmutton: Kraftwerk Orange: groppet: I saw a Tesla on the road the other day. I had never seen one in person before. It was pretty badass.

Yep, my friend used to have one - so cool looking, so futuristic looking!

[fp.images.autos.msn.com image 380x228]

All Tesla has to do is play by the rules, same as every other automaker, and get a few dealers.  I understand that there exist some really crappy, sleaze-ball dealers, but why is it a forgone conclusion that Tesla Dealers would fall into the same shameful tactics?   Is Tesla claiming that it is *impossible* to find a decent person to sell you a car, and if that's the case, what makes them immune from having those very same individuals in their own internal sales/marketing department?

Of course, if Tesla is allowed to make direct sales, then so should all the other makes. It'll be interesting to see if Tesla changes their strategy when they're trying to sell 200,000 units a year.

I would LOVE for this to be the case.  Go online, do one of those "build your car" things and then click a button, pay for it (either your own financing or they could finance for you), and in a month, have it delivered to your door.


You can pretty much do this.  People have cars built custom, all the time - paying for them in advance and then waiting weeks or months to take delivery.

What makes anyone think it's cheaper to buy a car that way, instead of choosing one that's already sitting on the lot with the right options and color, really boggles my mind.  Easier, sure, cheaper, no.

///Same goes for boats and houses.
 
2013-06-24 03:09:50 PM
The only time I needed an extra for a car was right before signing, they offered for $ 500 to cover all maintenance for the duration of the lease. I didnt want to spend the money, but thought about it. Went to the front of the showroom, where they had a cut out version of the car. I couldnt find the damn oil filter.Salesman couldnt either. They called a service guy, he almost laughed and pointed it out.
It was a real pita to get to. I decided that yes, it was worth 500 ( to me )  to not have to almost remove the front wheel to have access to the damn thing without a lift.
 
2013-06-24 03:28:02 PM

hej: BHShaman: Car dealerships exist because people want to test drive most cars before they buy them.
HOWEVER, it should be buyer choice. If direct sales is requested then it should be allowed.

If people want to buy a Tesla, or any car, without a test drive.. then more power to them. However, if you direct buy then there should be no obligation to the dealer to take delivery and prep the vehicle. Let the dealer willing to take their prep fee out of the corporate sales price get the business. See which model people really prefer over time.

How does a store being run by the manufacturer instead of a 3rd party have anything at all to do with taking a test drive?


Ask Best Buy how they feel about Amazon.
While not entirely exact, the implications are similar.

Walk into a dealership, test drive their car, order online for home delivery or factory pick-up.
Dealership spends an hour with you on test drive, you walk out and direct buy.
Yes, you can walk out now and buy at another dealership but the hassles are all the same at each one.
Competing with the manufacturer direct on price would be a lot harder unless the dealer only sold at MSRP and you pay for the privilege of never having to deal with the dealership.
 
2013-06-24 03:28:41 PM

mjohnson71: Here in downtown St. Louis there was a Fiat showroom. You couldn't buy the car or get anything serviced: just information.

Another dealer had a problem with this an invoked some state law to get the place shut down. Why the should the state care?


Each state has different rules, but in general a dealer can only sell or display on dealership premises (some states allow off-site display but no sales at the off-site location).  This is because operating a dealership is extremely expensive - it takes a lot of space, specialized equipment and staff.  If one dealer was allowed to just display and sell cars, and did not have to provide all the support - service, warranty work, parts inventory - they'd have a huge advantage over other dealers.

CSB - I used to own a motorcycle dealership in the San Francisco area.  A discount dealership opened up in the area, and started selling bikes for barely over dealer cost.  I went over to look at their shop, and saw that their service department was two guys who spent all their time uncrating and prepping new bikes to sell.  When did they do service, repairs and warranty work?  Well, if you called to get an appointment you were told it would be a wait of two or three months, why don't you take your bike to some other local dealer?

FWIW, with our "normal" sale prices - discounted a bit, but not down to dealer invoice - once all the bills were paid for vehicle sales costs, my dealership averaged $47 profit per bike.  The discount guys drove prices down and we were soon selling at a loss.  They went out of business eventually, leaving unpaid advertising bills of several hundred thousand dollars for all their discount ads, but helped hasten the shutdown of over half the dealerships in the area 2008-2010.

And then there was the internet.  We'd buy hundreds of new helmets, jackets, gloves etc.  People would come in, get their sizes, and then walk out and buy the same items from a discount website who had no brick-and-mortar expenses to cover, and didn't even have the things they ordered - they just had a jpeg image and then on demand ordered the item from the distributor to ship to the buyer.  Good times.
 
2013-06-24 03:35:22 PM
FrancoFile:
And what does "take delivery and prep" mean, either?

My grocery store "takes delivery" of canned beans by unloading a truck.  They then "prep" the beans by removing the cans from the case and putting them on a shelf.


The same as the difference between buying your TV at Best Buy and having ir direct shipped. BB adds on shipping, warehouse, and staffing to the overall price. You are paying for the prep of the item for sale within their framework.

In a dealership, this would entail taking it off the car hauler, removing the protective wrap, and whatever other small prep there is; gas, putting floor mats out, etc. If the dealership is not getting a cut of the sale, they should not be under any obligation to do any of that. OR.. the manufacturer has a set fee in their direct sale price that covers it. You don't even see it added into the price, but it is there.

I always negotiate the OTD price, so who gives a shiat if they list the prep on the invoice anyway.
I actually buy the way Cashdaddy bought. Last three vehicles and works wonderfully. Still wasted over an hour listening to the parts guy try to talk me into scotch guard and the finance guy to go with their financing.
 
2013-06-24 03:50:18 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: meanmutton: Kraftwerk Orange: groppet: I saw a Tesla on the road the other day. I had never seen one in person before. It was pretty badass.

Yep, my friend used to have one - so cool looking, so futuristic looking!

[fp.images.autos.msn.com image 380x228]

All Tesla has to do is play by the rules, same as every other automaker, and get a few dealers.  I understand that there exist some really crappy, sleaze-ball dealers, but why is it a forgone conclusion that Tesla Dealers would fall into the same shameful tactics?   Is Tesla claiming that it is *impossible* to find a decent person to sell you a car, and if that's the case, what makes them immune from having those very same individuals in their own internal sales/marketing department?

Of course, if Tesla is allowed to make direct sales, then so should all the other makes. It'll be interesting to see if Tesla changes their strategy when they're trying to sell 200,000 units a year.

I would LOVE for this to be the case.  Go online, do one of those "build your car" things and then click a button, pay for it (either your own financing or they could finance for you), and in a month, have it delivered to your door.

You can pretty much do this.  People have cars built custom, all the time - paying for them in advance and then waiting weeks or months to take delivery.

What makes anyone think it's cheaper to buy a car that way, instead of choosing one that's already sitting on the lot with the right options and color, really boggles my mind.  Easier, sure, cheaper, no.

///Same goes for boats and houses.


You certainly can't do that in Michigan.  You have to buy a vehicle from the lot at the Dealer.  It's illegal to buy one directly from the manufacturer.
 
2013-06-24 04:10:03 PM

meanmutton: You can pretty much do this.  People have cars built custom, all the time - paying for them in advance and then waiting weeks or months to take delivery.

What makes anyone think it's cheaper to buy a car that way, instead of choosing one that's already sitting on the lot with the right options and color, really boggles my mind.  Easier, sure, cheaper, no.

///Same goes for boats and houses.

You certainly can't do that in Michigan.  You have to buy a vehicle from the lot at the Dealer.  It's illegal to buy one directly from the manufacturer.


You can still custom order, just like anywhere else.  You do it through the Dealer, just like anywhere else.  Go in, tick the option boxes, and they give you a price - no haggling required!  Just like buying a Tesla online, except with a real human being helping you out.

Seriously, there's no need to haggle prices at any dealer, unless you want to.  Tesla just doesn't even give you the option... You still have to pay for service, and you still have to pay delivery/prep fees, they're just built into the price.
 
2013-06-24 04:13:28 PM

El Pachuco: mjohnson71: Here in downtown St. Louis there was a Fiat showroom. You couldn't buy the car or get anything serviced: just information.

Another dealer had a problem with this an invoked some state law to get the place shut down. Why the should the state care?

Each state has different rules, but in general a dealer can only sell or display on dealership premises (some states allow off-site display but no sales at the off-site location).  This is because operating a dealership is extremely expensive - it takes a lot of space, specialized equipment and staff.  If one dealer was allowed to just display and sell cars, and did not have to provide all the support - service, warranty work, parts inventory - they'd have a huge advantage over other dealers.


But the whole thing was they weren't even selling there. Just handing out flyers and talking about trim levels, options etc. If you wanted to talk about price, do a test drive or buy; they'd direct you to their two full dealerships out in the suburbs.
 
2013-06-24 04:25:34 PM

mjohnson71: El Pachuco: mjohnson71: Here in downtown St. Louis there was a Fiat showroom. You couldn't buy the car or get anything serviced: just information.

Another dealer had a problem with this an invoked some state law to get the place shut down. Why the should the state care?

Each state has different rules, but in general a dealer can only sell or display on dealership premises (some states allow off-site display but no sales at the off-site location).  This is because operating a dealership is extremely expensive - it takes a lot of space, specialized equipment and staff.  If one dealer was allowed to just display and sell cars, and did not have to provide all the support - service, warranty work, parts inventory - they'd have a huge advantage over other dealers.

But the whole thing was they weren't even selling there. Just handing out flyers and talking about trim levels, options etc. If you wanted to talk about price, do a test drive or buy; they'd direct you to their two full dealerships out in the suburbs.


Here in CA dealers can display vehicles offsite, and for example there's usually something Ford Honda VW parked at the entrance to the local Costco with a "for more info call the dealer" on the window.  But it sounds like Missouri may have different rules, and that's how it goes there.
 
2013-06-24 04:31:40 PM

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: And then they want you to haggle. WTF is that shiat? So the guy that just left here with the same car I'm looking to buy got a better price because he has better people skills? Go fark yourself. Take the "dealer-installed" options, prep fees, seven different levels of warranty they're going to force on you, the sales manager that has to be consulted to get me a "better deal"... just take it all and go fark yourselves.


You dont need people skills, just math skills.  You figure out what you're going to pay ahead of time, that you know offers them X level of acceptable profit, and then just demand that they do that deal.. or you leave.  People will always choose a small profit over no profit.  The dealership  will call you back the next day.

Most people just get too excited or want the car so bad they feel like they're not the ones in control.. with the credit checks and everything else they make the buyer feel like they are asking permission to give the dealer 30 thousand dollars.. rather than the way it should be, which is that the dealer has to work for you and your money.
 
2013-06-24 05:20:08 PM
NADA: Tesla's Model S makes our cars look obsolete

 i0.kym-cdn.com

"Obsolete"?  Really?  Drinking that Tesla Kool-Aid again, Subby?  Or did something happen recently that eliminates the need to ever take a trip of more than 250 miles?
 
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