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(The New Yorker)   "These charges [against Snowden] send a clear message," the spokesman said. "In the United States, you can't spy on people"   (newyorker.com) divider line 23
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2475 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Jun 2013 at 8:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-23 09:24:38 PM  
3 votes:

Darth_Lukecash: Snowden is a traitor by revealing this information


No, he's not. He broke the law of disclosing classified information. That's an entirely separate law from treason. The whole point is that we need to stop militarizing everything as a "crime against the people!" and calm the fark down.
2013-06-23 06:26:24 PM  
3 votes:

DamnYankees: Aside from the horrible satire here, the charges are farking comical. It's only a hop skip and jump from totalitarian 'law' where the very idea of doing something illegal (i.e. against the government) is treason.


Mr. A:  "I think the government is violating the Constitution with increasing regularity and to a frightening extent"

Mr B:  "Well...that pisses me off...fk the government"

Mr. A:  "Hey, look, this guy released information proving my claim!"

Mr. B:  "F*CK THAT GUY!  HANG HIM!!  F*CKING TRAITOR!!1!"
2013-06-24 01:47:46 AM  
2 votes:

tbeatty: But what isn't widely reported is that Sen Feinstein was boo'ed at a speech in front of a Democrat crowd when she said Snowden was a criminal.


Ah, here.

It was Pelosi

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/22/pelosi-booed-at-netroots-while -d efending-espionage-charges-against-snowden/

"I know that some of you attribute heroic status to that action," she said of Snowden's leaks to the Guardian and the Washington Post. "But, again, you don't have the responsibility for the security of the United States. Those of us who do have to strike a different balance."

Wow, that makes me angry.  "You may agree with him, but we know better than you."

Madam Speaker, WE GAVE YOU THAT POWER AND THAT RESPONSIBILITY.

We are not children to be managed, we are the People of the United States, and YOU get YOUR power from US.  We're the adults here, whether you like it or not.
2013-06-23 10:27:35 PM  
2 votes:
Wow. The Internet Tough Guys are out in force tonight.
2013-06-23 09:51:31 PM  
2 votes:
The three charges against Snowden are:

"theft of government property"
"unauthorized communication of national defense information"
"willful communication of classified communications of intelligence information to an unauthorized person"

The last two are from the 1917 Espionage Act.
Nothing about Treason, for you frothy-mouthed sieg-heil'ers in this thread.
2013-06-23 09:10:32 PM  
2 votes:

Darth_Lukecash: Lionel Mandrake: DamnYankees: Aside from the horrible satire here, the charges are farking comical. It's only a hop skip and jump from totalitarian 'law' where the very idea of doing something illegal (i.e. against the government) is treason.

Mr. A:  "I think the government is violating the Constitution with increasing regularity and to a frightening extent"

Mr B:  "Well...that pisses me off...fk the government"

Mr. A:  "Hey, look, this guy released information proving my claim!"

Mr. B:  "F*CK THAT GUY!  HANG HIM!!  F*CKING TRAITOR!!1!"



But here's the real issue: what the NSA did was legal and approved by the congress.

Snowden is a traitor by revealing this information

Note:no one in congress is surprised by the NSA actions or calling this a scandal. Everyone is saying Snowden being a traitor.


Congress cannot make it legal to violate the constitution.
2013-06-23 09:04:56 PM  
2 votes:

Darth_Lukecash: Lionel Mandrake: DamnYankees: Aside from the horrible satire here, the charges are farking comical. It's only a hop skip and jump from totalitarian 'law' where the very idea of doing something illegal (i.e. against the government) is treason.

Mr. A:  "I think the government is violating the Constitution with increasing regularity and to a frightening extent"

Mr B:  "Well...that pisses me off...fk the government"

Mr. A:  "Hey, look, this guy released information proving my claim!"

Mr. B:  "F*CK THAT GUY!  HANG HIM!!  F*CKING TRAITOR!!1!"

But here's the real issue: what the NSA did was legal and approved by the congress.

Snowden is a traitor by revealing this information

Note:no one in congress is surprised by the NSA actions or calling this a scandal. Everyone is saying Snowden being a traitor.


Snowden is no more a traitor than George Washington was.
2013-06-24 07:39:07 AM  
1 votes:

GoSlash27: #2 If he worked for the government and went to the press intending to expose abuse and fraud, how could he not be a "whistleblower"?


What he exposed was neither abuse nor fraud, but rather the NSA operating in an now-perfectly legal space created for them by the Patriot Act and other laws.  Whether those laws themselves are unconstitutional some thing which has yet to be challenged legally.

/don't think he's a traitor
//or a whilstleblower
///glad he did what he did
2013-06-24 01:58:44 AM  
1 votes:

Biological Ali: "unequivocally wrong" to "controversial, at best"


This is wrong on so many levels, not the least of which is the spending. How much is all this surveillance costing the taxpayer? I'm being serious, I do not want to pay for what amounts to a carrier group sitting around sucking down electricity and bandwidth. But since it's secret, we'll never know what the price tag is. My grandchildren are going to be paying $1000/yr each for the privilege of being constantly spied on. That's bullshiat.
2013-06-24 12:31:01 AM  
1 votes:

Biological Ali: It's the people who have a problem that look to be the odd ones out here; this thing is at best a "controversy", and even that's stretching it a little.


@algore
Al Gore
In digital era, privacy must be a priority. Is it just me, or is secret blanket surveillance obscenely outrageous?

This oddball has it right.  Because:
  The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Courts have already ruled that email privacy falls under the fourth.  Electronic transmissions are "papers and effects."

Sucking up everything is the government TRYING to end round the law and fourth amendment (because they're not targeting anyone specifically!  Hur der!).   And trying to get around our basic law to violate it's spirit is morally objectionable.  It always has been.  I don't see how that can be argued.

"It's called protecting America" definitely does not cut it.
2013-06-23 11:35:18 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: sendtodave: Gyrfalcon: Interesting how some people seem to think, however that "I have no problem with X, so nobody should have a problem with X" ought to be the end of the debate.

Who, me?

No, I am deathly afraid of this debate ending prematurely.  This issue needs to be resolved.

It was resolved.  Our elected representatives are okay with it.
Just like Obamacare.
You need to get over it.


Seems more like rule of man than rule of law.

Because they are perfectly fine with whatever law they pass.
2013-06-23 11:33:50 PM  
1 votes:

sendtodave: Again,. it's an "end justifies the means" thing, to my mind.


So, to expound on that, anyone who would prefer to call Snowden other synonyms for whistle-blower that have less positive connotations ("leaker," neural, "traitor," negative) obviously don't think the ends (informing the public about his program) justified the means (breaking the law).

Which I have a problem with.  Because I feel that this is a Big Farking Deal.
2013-06-23 11:23:52 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: Is there any meaningful debate going on?


Nope...they're all tied up with REAL scandals like Benghazi and the IRS.
2013-06-23 11:17:20 PM  
1 votes:

Sgygus: The Emperor's New Clothes:  "But he has nothing on at all," said a little child at last.


this times a million. come on people, we all KNEW this before he said it. snowden IS that little kid. for farks sake!
2013-06-23 10:37:22 PM  
1 votes:

Cubicle Jockey: The three charges against Snowden are:

"theft of government property"


What property was "stolen"?  I know files were copied.  Given how so many people view that music "sharing" is not technically theft, how is this theft?
2013-06-23 10:34:16 PM  
1 votes:

uknesvuinng: 2wolves: The charges that are still sealed and considered secret? Those charges?

If by "still sealed and considered secret" you mean "were unsealed on Friday afternoon", then yes, those charges.

Link


Huh.  So, they want to change him with espionage, but to get around Hong Kong's "We won't extradite political criminals" law, they framed it as "theft of government property."

Oh, no, we won't try him for committing a political crime!  Just theft!

They straight up farking lied to the HK government.
2013-06-23 10:19:34 PM  
1 votes:
Hey, he tired to warn everyone what he was planning with his 1992 hit single "Informer":

img.fark.net
Snow

img.fark.net
Snowden

See?
2013-06-23 09:44:01 PM  
1 votes:

Biological Ali: Satanic_Hamster: Darth_Lukecash: Snowden is a traitor by revealing this information

No, he's not.  He's a *criminal* by revealing this information.  Blames of traitor/treason are a bit over done.

Pretty much. He's just a common criminal and should be dealt with as such.


"Common criminals" generally commit crimes of opportunity for their own benefit, usually monetary. What did Snowden possibly have to gain for himself knowing full well that his actions would result I either lengthy incarceration or fleeing for his home county leaving behind his friends and family perhaps forever? Yes, I get that you think the rest of us have no right to know what our government is doing to us because our government is infallible, and knows what is best for us and we have no right to criticize, for we are it humbleservants of the almighty state, but what did behave to gain by this?
2013-06-23 09:36:18 PM  
1 votes:

Darth_Lukecash: Lionel Mandrake: DamnYankees: Aside from the horrible satire here, the charges are farking comical. It's only a hop skip and jump from totalitarian 'law' where the very idea of doing something illegal (i.e. against the government) is treason.

Mr. A:  "I think the government is violating the Constitution with increasing regularity and to a frightening extent"

Mr B:  "Well...that pisses me off...fk the government"

Mr. A:  "Hey, look, this guy released information proving my claim!"

Mr. B:  "F*CK THAT GUY!  HANG HIM!!  F*CKING TRAITOR!!1!"

But here's the real issue: what the NSA did was legal and approved by the congress.

Snowden is a traitor by revealing this information

Note:no one in congress is surprised by the NSA actions or calling this a scandal. Everyone is saying Snowden being a traitor.


If the government does it, it's legal?  What about the Japanese internment during WW2?  Didn't the Army intentionally infect some people with viruses?

Government spying on its citizens is wrong.
2013-06-23 09:34:29 PM  
1 votes:
The Borowitz Report is satire.
2013-06-23 09:09:31 PM  
1 votes:
Is he a criminal? Most certainly, just based on the letter of the laws that he violated.

Would bringing him to stand trial be justice? I'm more iffy on that. I have a hard time believing that Americans are worse off because they're now aware that the government is spying on literally everything they put online or on their phones.

Honestly, I don't really see a reason to spend resources trying to get him, beyond the usual American government posturing and fist-shaking.

He's not a hero, but he's also not farking Bin Laden, either. No one was made less safe by his admissions (unless you somehow believe terrorists weren't already concerned about electronic surveillance.) He can only be a traitor if the enemy that received comfort is the American people.
2013-06-23 06:26:43 PM  
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Borowitz...this is attempted satire or humor or something, right?


Yes.

Also, nothing else in the New Yorker is ever that short. NOTHING
2013-06-23 05:54:16 PM  
1 votes:
Borowitz...this is attempted satire or humor or something, right?
 
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