If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(SFGate)   How bad is the fight between cities of San Francisco and San Jose for MLB supremacy on the San Francisco peninsula? "San Jose's attorneys tried to serve court papers on [Bud] Selig last week and he dodged them for almost three days"   (blog.sfgate.com) divider line 44
    More: Dumbass, Major League Baseball, San Jose, San Francisco, Bud Selig  
•       •       •

1227 clicks; posted to Sports » on 23 Jun 2013 at 8:12 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



44 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-06-23 06:22:33 PM
I've tried real hard to give a fark about this NorCal slap fight but just can't. Grow up and figure it out
 
2013-06-23 07:09:05 PM

Peter von Nostrand: I've tried real hard to give a fark about this NorCal slap fight but just can't. Grow up and figure it out


Apparently, MLB doesn't give a fark, either.
 
2013-06-23 08:14:41 PM
Fark the Giants.
 
2013-06-23 08:32:46 PM
oklnd.  it wouldn't be the same without the a's
 
2013-06-23 08:34:59 PM

animesucks: oklnd.  it wouldn't be the same without the a's


They'll still have the Raiders. I don't think Al's ghost will try to move them to LA again.
 
2013-06-23 08:40:35 PM
I'd like to see this on the court, just for the lulz.
 
2013-06-23 09:21:16 PM
Have the A's build the 49ers a stadium in San Francisco and they can take Levi's Stadium or move them to Sacramento, Las Vegas or Vancouver, and get the hell out of Oakland.
 
2013-06-23 10:12:33 PM

TheJoe03: Fark the Giants.


For defending their business interests? Please.


Of course Selig farking dodged this. It's the weakest leg the Reserve Clause has to stand on. Blaming the Giants for not giving the territory up for free is like blaming Gary Bettman for Hamilton's retarded stadium plan.
 
2013-06-23 10:17:35 PM

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: Have the A's build the 49ers a stadium in San Francisco and they can take Levi's Stadium or move them to Sacramento, Las Vegas or Vancouver, and get the hell out of Oakland.


San Jose doesn't just want the A's in the area.  They want them IN San Jose, and want a new baseball stadium to house them near Diridon station (that's about a quarter mile from downtown).
 
2013-06-23 10:25:15 PM
If I owned the A's, I'd immediately buy the Brooklyn Cyclones minor league franchise.  I'd then point out that the MLB Constitution (which establishes and defines territorial rights) expired on December 31, 2012, without being renewed... and that starting in 2014, the team was moving to play at KeySpan (I think that's what it's called) Park.  THEN watch how fast an "A's to San Jose" move gets the green light.
 
2013-06-23 10:30:35 PM

Lifeless: For defending their business interests? Please.


Yes, they're being dicks. I guess the South Bay jacked Frisco's football team, so I'm going to enjoy calling them the Santa Clara 9ers.
 
2013-06-23 10:32:34 PM

Mitch Taylor's Bro: Peter von Nostrand: I've tried real hard to give a fark about this NorCal slap fight but just can't. Grow up and figure it out

Apparently, MLB doesn't give a fark, either.


Not while the Giants are the World Series Champions, and not for a few years after as well, at least.
 
2013-06-23 11:23:11 PM

Lifeless: TheJoe03: Fark the Giants.

For defending their business interests? Please.


Of course Selig farking dodged this. It's the weakest leg the Reserve Clause has to stand on. Blaming the Giants for not giving the territory up for free is like blaming Gary Bettman for Hamilton's retarded stadium plan.


The Giants chose not to build their stadium in San Jose.  They have no right to keep Oakland from moving there.  The Bay Area is plenty big enough to support two properly located teams.
 
2013-06-23 11:39:34 PM

PowerSlacker: Lifeless: TheJoe03: Fark the Giants.

For defending their business interests? Please.


Of course Selig farking dodged this. It's the weakest leg the Reserve Clause has to stand on. Blaming the Giants for not giving the territory up for free is like blaming Gary Bettman for Hamilton's retarded stadium plan.

The Giants chose not to build their stadium in San Jose.  They have no right to keep Oakland from moving there.  The Bay Area is plenty big enough to support two properly located teams.


Yeah, but Oakland still gave San Francisco the rights to San Jose.  Since this happened before the tech boom, Oakland yelling about getting screwed over is like a person giving their friend some land they don't want, then clamoring to get it back once oil is found on the land.
 
2013-06-23 11:53:01 PM

That_Dude: PowerSlacker: Lifeless: TheJoe03: Fark the Giants.

For defending their business interests? Please.


Of course Selig farking dodged this. It's the weakest leg the Reserve Clause has to stand on. Blaming the Giants for not giving the territory up for free is like blaming Gary Bettman for Hamilton's retarded stadium plan.

The Giants chose not to build their stadium in San Jose.  They have no right to keep Oakland from moving there.  The Bay Area is plenty big enough to support two properly located teams.

Yeah, but Oakland still gave San Francisco the rights to San Jose.  Since this happened before the tech boom, Oakland yelling about getting screwed over is like a person giving their friend some land they don't want, then clamoring to get it back once oil is found on the land.


Oakland never gave San Francisco permanent rights to San Jose.

Selig said: "In 1990 when Bob Lurie wanted to move the Giants to San Jose, Walter Haas, the wonderful owner of the Oakland club, who did things in the best interest of baseball, granted permission. What got lost there is, they didn't feel it was permission in perpetuity. He gave Bob permission to go down there. Unfortunately or fortunately, it never got changed."

http://www.mercurynews.com/mark-purdy/ci_20615413/mark-purdy-giants- ow nership-should-do-whats-right

MLB will lose this court battle, should it go that far.
 
2013-06-23 11:56:45 PM
The lesson, as always:

Fark Bud Selig with a red hot fire poker.
 
2013-06-24 12:34:22 AM
I'm so glad the courts are finally involved, and those bumbling idiots Lew Wolff and Bud Selig can be shoved out of the way for people who know what they're doing.  Everything I've read about this Cotchett guy is positive, but I wouldn't even care if we had the lawyer from Idiocracy fighting for us; as it stands, Cotchett and San Jose are the first people with both clout and cojones to stand up for the A's in roughly two decades.

Fark Bud Selig.  Fark the giants.
 
2013-06-24 02:06:28 AM
the bigger issue here for me is that no one seems to want to act in the best interests of the game, which is something a commisioner might want to look at now and again, particularly if popularity of your game is dwindling.
 
2013-06-24 08:56:07 AM
Move the A's back to Kansas City and relegate the Royals down to AAA.
 
2013-06-24 09:28:42 AM

farbekrieg: the bigger issue here for me is that no one seems to want to act in the best interests of the game, which is something a commisioner might want to look at now and again, particularly if popularity of your game is dwindling.


In your opinion, what would the best interest be?
 
2013-06-24 11:40:21 AM
I prefer to have the SJ Giants as opposed to a MLB team. Prices are reasonable and it's tons of fun. Reasonable pricing is unheard of in MLB.
 
2013-06-24 11:52:09 AM

The Bestest: farbekrieg: the bigger issue here for me is that no one seems to want to act in the best interests of the game, which is something a commisioner might want to look at now and again, particularly if popularity of your game is dwindling.

In your opinion, what would the best interest be?


Well, rather than the opinion of random internet people, how about the opinion of the Commissioner himself, who said as recently as last year that the A's need a new stadium to compete. Which is what he's said every time he's visited Oakland in the last dozen years or so.

Now, on the field, the A's seem to competing quite well in the Coliseum. But in terms of the "best interests of baseball", it would be beneficial to the sport to have all of its franchises in modern facilities and generating revenue. The A's from everything I've read are profitable, but the big money isn't there like it is from the other clubs due to a relative lack of corporate sponsorship and the requisite Big-Ass TV Deal™ that's so popular these days.

More than a new stadium, some sort of final resolution of the A's situation would be good for the club and by extension good for MLB. The Bay Area is a major media market that's more than capable of supporting two big-league clubs, and there's no reason the A's should be a "small-market" team. Resolving this could potentially add another contributor to the revenue-sharing formula and help subsidize the true small-market teams, which helps solidify MLB's appeal throughout the country and expands the customer base.
 
2013-06-24 12:04:52 PM

sjcpjh1: I prefer to have the SJ Giants as opposed to a MLB team. Prices are reasonable and it's tons of fun. Reasonable pricing is unheard of in MLB.


Dude, you can see the A's for under $10 bucks usually. How much cheaper do you want it to be? The concession prices aren't that different from a MLB park at a Rivercats game, I'll tell you that.
 
2013-06-24 12:35:32 PM

drewogatory: sjcpjh1: I prefer to have the SJ Giants as opposed to a MLB team. Prices are reasonable and it's tons of fun. Reasonable pricing is unheard of in MLB.

Dude, you can see the A's for under $10 bucks usually. How much cheaper do you want it to be? The concession prices aren't that different from a MLB park at a Rivercats game, I'll tell you that.


I also have to drive/BART to Oakland which burns up a fair chunk of time. I prefer to pedal my bike to Municipal Stadium for 20 minutes and be at the game. Concession pricing isn't too different but quality of food is a huge step up at the SJ Giants......long live Turkey Mike's!!!!!
 
2013-06-24 01:54:52 PM
I get the Warriors but how does Oakland support or get an NFL team and a MLB team in a crappy stadium when there are two in a much larger more cosmopolitan city just 20 minutes away?
 
2013-06-24 02:16:38 PM
Fark Bud Selig with a red hot fire poker.

amen, brother
 
2013-06-24 02:51:04 PM
Having lived in the Bay Area for 20 years, I would like to see my beloved A's move to Seattle so we finally get a major league team here.
 
2013-06-24 03:33:08 PM

Hang On Voltaire: I get the Warriors but how does Oakland support or get an NFL team and a MLB team in a crappy stadium when there are two in a much larger more cosmopolitan city just 20 minutes away?


Because it wasn't always the case that Oakland was clearly smaller and less moneyed? Back in 1968, when the A's moved from KC to Oakland, San Jose wasn't nearly the size it is today. The Silicon Valley tech boom is what made San Jose into the city it is today, and that's a relatively recent thing. But Oakland had one of the best fanbases in the 70s and 80s.

As bad as the Coliseum is now, it was part of a popular movement at the time of "combo" stadiums. At one point, more than half of MLB teams were in that sort of stadium, thinking it would be great for the local community and would save space/cost. Now Oakland has the last remaining combo stadium still used for baseball (Anaheim Stadium is no longer a combo stadium, though it was for awhile).
 
2013-06-24 03:35:04 PM
 
2013-06-24 03:40:12 PM
lacydog:
Because it wasn't always the case that Oakland was clearly smaller and less moneyed? Back in 1968, when the A's moved from KC to Oakland, San Jose wasn't nearly the size it is today. The Silicon Valley tech boom is what made San Jose into the city it is today, and that's a relatively recent thing. But Oakland had one of the best fanbases in the 70s and 80s.

As bad as the Coliseum is now, it was part of a popular movement at the time of "combo" stadiums. At one point, more than half of MLB teams were in that sort of stadium, thinking it would be great for the local community and would save space/cost. Now Oakland has the last remaining combo stadium still used for baseball (Anaheim Stadium is no longer a combo stadium, though it was for awhile).


I get, know, all that but why do the Raiders stay?  Why not go back to LA?  From what I understand the Raiders have not committed to remaining in Oakland because of the stadium
 
2013-06-24 03:40:41 PM

Hang On Voltaire: I get the Warriors but how does Oakland support or get an NFL team and a MLB team in a crappy stadium when there are two in a much larger more cosmopolitan city just 20 minutes away?


Well, one of those teams is moving to Santa Clara (next door to San Jose) in 2014, so that part of your argument falls apart while you're building it.

Alameda and Contra Costa counties have 2.5 million people between them; San Francisco, San Mateo and Marin counties are just shy of 1.8 million people, so although SF has more people than Oakland, when looking at the associated counties, another part of your argument just crumbled.

If you want to know why Charley Finley (may he burn in Hell) moved the A's from KC to Oakland, the answer is: Oakland offered him a better deal. If you want to know why the Prince of Darkness moved the Raiders back to Oakland, the answer is: Oakland offered him a better deal.

TMYK...
 
2013-06-24 03:44:10 PM

lacydog: Now Oakland has the last remaining combo stadium still used for baseball


this is just speculation but it appears that in 2014, the Snakes' ballpark will be a de facto combo stadium.  the Sun Devils are undertaking a massive renovation to Sun Devil Stadium and it will be off the map for a year.  The only options are (a) Bank One Ballpark and (b) The Cardinals' stadium.

there's some bad blood between ASU and the NFL (ironically enough, the NFL filed lawsuits alleging ASU hadn't done proper renovations to the stadium when the Cards were tenants, and was cheating on revenue sharing) and a lot of ASU fans simply don't want to travel that far for games.  plus, there's some takl the Cardinals don't want the wear and tear on the field saturday (ASU) followed by NFL on sunday.

but, the Snakes aren't a fantastic option either.....ASU will have to work something out with MLB where they won't have games on Saturdays in September/October, during that roughly 8-10 weeks of the season (ok, the ass end of August the Devils play as well).  it would be a mighty tall order to have an MLB game start at say, 11AM-12PM, then renovate the entire building in roughly 3 hours for a 7PM kickoff.  markign the field, setting up goalpasts, installing bleachers in the field....gonna be a tall order.

(and of course ASU president Michale Crow ran his fat yapper a few months back, saying, "ASU is committed to playing the 2014 in the snakes' stadium, it's gonna be great".  he hadn't talked to the D-Backs yet.  They were not happy.  "he said what?  we haven't said word one about our plans!"
 
2013-06-24 03:52:11 PM

Hang On Voltaire: lacydog:
Because it wasn't always the case that Oakland was clearly smaller and less moneyed? Back in 1968, when the A's moved from KC to Oakland, San Jose wasn't nearly the size it is today. The Silicon Valley tech boom is what made San Jose into the city it is today, and that's a relatively recent thing. But Oakland had one of the best fanbases in the 70s and 80s.

As bad as the Coliseum is now, it was part of a popular movement at the time of "combo" stadiums. At one point, more than half of MLB teams were in that sort of stadium, thinking it would be great for the local community and would save space/cost. Now Oakland has the last remaining combo stadium still used for baseball (Anaheim Stadium is no longer a combo stadium, though it was for awhile).

I get, know, all that but why do the Raiders stay?  Why not go back to LA?  From what I understand the Raiders have not committed to remaining in Oakland because of the stadium


Because with all of the problems with Oakland's stadium, it's still more modern than anything available in LA.
 
2013-06-24 04:19:16 PM
LibertyHiller:

Well, one of those teams is moving to Santa Clara (next door to San Jose) in 2014, so that part of your argument falls apart while you're building it.

Alameda and Contra Costa counties have 2.5 million people between them; San Francisco, San Mateo and Marin counties are just shy of 1.8 million people, so although SF has more people than Oakland, when looking at the associated counties, another part of your argument just crumbled.

If you want to know why Charley Finley (may he burn in Hell) moved the A's from KC to Oakland, the answer is: Oakland offered him a better deal. If you want to know why the Prince of Darkness moved the Raiders back to Oakland, the answer is: Oakland offered him a better deal.

TMYK...



1. I know jackshiat about MLB.  I hate it.  So had no idea the As were moving

2. I understand that a better deal will make a team move so my question is how come a better deal for the Raiders has not come along given that there is no plan in place (although I know one has been proposed) to replace the Coliseum.

3.  I wasn't "arguing" just stating facts so no need to be snarky
 
2013-06-24 04:20:07 PM
LibertyHiller:

Because with all of the problems with Oakland's stadium, it's still more modern than anything available in LA.

Understand but I would think with a commitment by the Raiders to return to LA that they could get a stadium plan in place
 
2013-06-24 04:23:16 PM

Hang On Voltaire: I get the Warriors but how does Oakland support or get an NFL team and a MLB team in a crappy stadium when there are two in a much larger more cosmopolitan city just 20 minutes away?


Also, the Warriors are leaving Oakland soon.
 
2013-06-24 04:28:18 PM

Hang On Voltaire: LibertyHiller:

Because with all of the problems with Oakland's stadium, it's still more modern than anything available in LA.

Understand but I would think with a commitment by the Raiders to return to LA that they could get a stadium plan in place


They left LA because they couldn't get the stadium deal they wanted in Inglewood. It's been almost 20 years and LA (city, county, and suburbs) still isn't willing to give them the kind of deal they need: It amounts to the team putting in no money at all, and even with the league's commitment to help finance an LA stadium (it would kick in $300-400 million), there's not enough cash on the table to make the numbers work without lots of public money and that's not going to happen any time in the foreseeable future.
 
2013-06-24 04:42:51 PM

Hang On Voltaire: LibertyHiller:

Well, one of those teams is moving to Santa Clara (next door to San Jose) in 2014, so that part of your argument falls apart while you're building it.

Alameda and Contra Costa counties have 2.5 million people between them; San Francisco, San Mateo and Marin counties are just shy of 1.8 million people, so although SF has more people than Oakland, when looking at the associated counties, another part of your argument just crumbled.

If you want to know why Charley Finley (may he burn in Hell) moved the A's from KC to Oakland, the answer is: Oakland offered him a better deal. If you want to know why the Prince of Darkness moved the Raiders back to Oakland, the answer is: Oakland offered him a better deal.

TMYK...


1. I know jackshiat about MLB.  I hate it.  So had no idea the As were moving

2. I understand that a better deal will make a team move so my question is how come a better deal for the Raiders has not come along given that there is no plan in place (although I know one has been proposed) to replace the Coliseum.

3.  I wasn't "arguing" just stating facts so no need to be snarky


Since I just took care of your question 2, for the others...

First, why are you in a baseball thread if you hate the sport so much? For the record, the A's want to move, the 49ers are moving.

FWIW, I'm not being snarky (for a change), I'm just trying to enhance your grasp of the relevant facts.

Webster's definition of "argument": 1 (obsolete): an outward sign or indication

2a: a reason given in proof or rebuttal
2b: discourse intended to persuade

3a: the act or process of arguing
3b: a coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion
3c: quarrel, disagreement

I was using the word in the sense of 2b, while you're assuming I meant 3c. See the difference?
 
2013-06-24 04:55:59 PM
LibertyHiller:

First, why are you in a baseball thread if you hate the sport so much? For the record, the A's want to move, the 49ers are moving.

FWIW, I'm not being snarky (for a change), I'm just trying to enhance your grasp of the relevant facts.

Webster's definition of "argument": 1 (obsolete): an outward sign or indication

2a: a reason given in proof or rebuttal
2b: discourse intended to persuade

3a: the act or process of arguing
3b: a coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion
3c: quarrel, disagreement

I was using the word in the sense of 2b, while you're assuming I meant 3c. See the difference?


1. Because the idea of the MLB Commish dodging a subpoena is interesting and the economics of professional sports I find interesting.

2. The 49ers are moving the way the Patriots, Redskins, & Cardinals moved. It's still the same market

3. I was not trying to disagree or persuade anyone.
 
2013-06-24 05:54:07 PM

Hang On Voltaire:
1. Because the idea of the MLB Commish dodging a subpoena is interesting and the economics of professional sports I find interesting.


Fair enough.

2. The 49ers are moving the way the Patriots, Redskins, & Cardinals moved. It's still the same market

Sort of; the FCC agrees with you, but the rest of the Federal government considers San Jose to be its own MSA. It's over 40 miles between SJ and SF or Oakland, and in normal conditions it an hour's drive at best, and it can be two hours on a bad day.

(I had to think about which move by the Cardinals you were thinking of, because they left Chicago a few years before I was born, and moved to Arizona almost 30 years later. Although Tempe to Glendale isn't much of a move, teams have suffered even when the move was intra-market. Let me refer you to the Lions' years in Pontiac as a great example of a move that was a disaster from the start.)

3. I was not trying to disagree or persuade anyone.

You asked: How does Oakland support or get an NFL team and a MLB team in a crappy stadium when there are two in a much larger more cosmopolitan city just 20 minutes away?

That implies (as its premise) the unsuitability of the East Bay as a home for major professional sports, and (as a conclusion) that it doesn't deserve to have any of the teams that are (for now) based in Oakland. So, I should have said 3b instead of 2b, right?

In any event, I assumed you were unfamiliar with the demographics and the geography of the Bay Area, and you've said nothing that indicates otherwise. Relax, man, it's just Fark.
 
2013-06-24 06:25:24 PM

rickythepenguin: lacydog: Now Oakland has the last remaining combo stadium still used for baseball

this is just speculation but it appears that in 2014, the Snakes' ballpark will be a de facto combo stadium.  the Sun Devils are undertaking a massive renovation to Sun Devil Stadium and it will be off the map for a year.  The only options are (a) Bank One Ballpark and (b) The Cardinals' stadium.

there's some bad blood between ASU and the NFL (ironically enough, the NFL filed lawsuits alleging ASU hadn't done proper renovations to the stadium when the Cards were tenants, and was cheating on revenue sharing) and a lot of ASU fans simply don't want to travel that far for games.  plus, there's some takl the Cardinals don't want the wear and tear on the field saturday (ASU) followed by NFL on sunday.

but, the Snakes aren't a fantastic option either.....ASU will have to work something out with MLB where they won't have games on Saturdays in September/October, during that roughly 8-10 weeks of the season (ok, the ass end of August the Devils play as well).  it would be a mighty tall order to have an MLB game start at say, 11AM-12PM, then renovate the entire building in roughly 3 hours for a 7PM kickoff.  markign the field, setting up goalpasts, installing bleachers in the field....gonna be a tall order.

(and of course ASU president Michale Crow ran his fat yapper a few months back, saying, "ASU is committed to playing the 2014 in the snakes' stadium, it's gonna be great".  he hadn't talked to the D-Backs yet.  They were not happy.  "he said what?  we haven't said word one about our plans!"


It won't happen, Ricky. The Dbacks won't allow it and they get the final say on events there from basically February thru October. Crow was just talking out of his ass... again.
 
2013-06-24 07:06:23 PM

desertgeek: t won't happen, Ricky. The Dbacks won't allow it and they get the final say on events there from basically February thru October. Crow was just talking out of his ass... again.


yeah, i don't think so either.  there's just too much logistically that would have to happen with another league with absolute rights to the stadium during the season.  aside from a promise not to play on Saturday, you would also quite possibly run into visiting team's broadcast rights options that would be affected by different start times.  now, would the Cubs / Braves / FoxSports SW (pads, rocks, whomever) be put off by a 640PM game (arizona) being moved to say, 1130AM?  who knows.

either way, I don't think Bank One is an option.  the devils will have to go hat in hand to the cardinals.  there are no other colorable options.

(well....could salt river fields be temporarily renovated to add a few thousand bleachers?  unlikely at best.)
 
2013-06-25 12:51:54 AM

lacydog: As bad as the Coliseum is now, it was part of a popular movement at the time of "combo" stadiums. At one point, more than half of MLB teams were in that sort of stadium, thinking it would be great for the local community and would save space/cost. Now Oakland has the last remaining combo stadium still used for baseball (Anaheim Stadium is no longer a combo stadium, though it was for awhile).


Rogers Centre? Still hosts professional baseball and football teams full time and stands to host big ticket soccer games (whenever Toronto FC thinks they can use twice the normal seating).

sjcpjh1: I prefer to have the SJ Giants as opposed to a MLB team. Prices are reasonable and it's tons of fun. Reasonable pricing is unheard of in MLB.


A cheap Jays game costs less than a seat at the local short-season A team. True, the Jays seat is probably further away, but the view isn't that much worse and there are numerous additional benefits (even considering the issues that the Dome has). I suppose you can justify it a bit more with the two time defending champs vs the perennially mediocre Jays, but unless you live in a market that is pretty much always close to sold out, the seats aren't going to be that much more than a minor league team and concessions gouge you everywhere.

Now, a big issue is that Major League stadiums tend to be in terrible locations to access in the middle of cities. That is something that can easily be solved. With a new stadium, and I would get the feeling that a SJ As team would be more regionally focused and could easily get away with not being downtown.
 
2013-06-25 02:13:29 AM

dywed88: With a new stadium, and I would get the feeling that a SJ As team would be more regionally focused and could easily get away with not being downtown.


I heard they wanted to build the stadium right by the Shark Tank.
 
Displayed 44 of 44 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report