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(Al Jazeera)   Snowden continues his tour of freedom loving countries   (aljazeera.com) divider line 454
    More: Followup, Hong Kong, Moscow, political freedom, South China Morning Post, Dmitry Peskov  
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9360 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jun 2013 at 5:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-24 11:03:52 AM  

skullkrusher: I don't think very many people suspected the extent to which we were being spied upon. Sure, there has always been grumbling about abuses of the PATRIOT Act and what it COULD be used for but I have heard very few people saying this sort of shiat was ongoing and extensive except Alex Jones


Either details matter or they do not.  If they do, then Snowden's release of what we were doing to Medvedev's phone is treason.  If details do not matter, Snowden letting us know how much we're being spied on (stipulating for the sake of argument that what he *said* is true) is no great service.

Trying to absolve him of one because one really appreciates the other is incompatible with intellectual consistency.
 
2013-06-24 11:19:07 AM  

Ricardo Klement: Serious Post on Serious Thread: You are being pedantic. And your either/or is bunk. The foreign gov'ts in question certainly knew all this crap before hand, and are certainly doing their damndest to do it themselves. So no harm to perceived US 'interests' and 'safety'. On the other hand, the US citizens also knew, could have known or suspected most of this shiat. It's been on everything from Wired to Jay Leno in years past. Snowden just put a finer point on it and got the shiatizens to pay farking attention (at least til the next distraction of the week occurs).

So you admit that Snowden didn't tell the public anything they verifiably didn't already know.  So really, this hero-worship really IS misplaced.


toe-may-toe ta-mat-toe. He did a good thing. He is risking his physical, mental and economic well-being to have done that thing. Your definition of 'hero' and characterization of 'hero worship' is just a pointless semantic aside. Remove the loaded 'hero' word out of it, and I'll just say it was a goddamn good, and righteous, thing to do. And I commend him for that.
 
2013-06-24 11:22:51 AM  

Ricardo Klement: Trying to absolve him of one because one really appreciates the other is incompatible with intellectual consistency.


ah, ok.  Then we agree.
 
2013-06-24 12:17:42 PM  

letrole: So you do have a right to privacy in a locked room that you actually own, with windows drawn and guests of your own choosing. But not on the telephone or interweb. For those sorts of communications, administrators and technicians and system owners must cooperate with you so that you can achieve what you wish to do.


The US Mail requires administrators and carriers to deliver your mail. Should you not expect privacy of your letters? Hasn't this been adjudicated long ago?

The most important aspect of the technology Snoden revealed is that the government is indiscriminately archiving the content all sorts of internet communications. These communications are said to remain secure unless there is a court order to access them. Yet, they were already seized prior to issuance of a warrant!

Why is this not the same as the government photocopying everyone's mailed letters, cards, and bills and filing them them until government gets a court order to read them? Wouldn't this be clearly a violation "right of the people to be secure in their ... papers... against unreasonable searches and seizures?"

Also the fourth amendment prohibits seizure without probable cause. Plying the intertubes is not prima facie evidence of wrongdoing.


The 4th: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
 
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