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(Al Jazeera)   Snowden continues his tour of freedom loving countries   (aljazeera.com) divider line 453
    More: Followup, Hong Kong, Moscow, political freedom, South China Morning Post, Dmitry Peskov  
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9366 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jun 2013 at 5:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-23 10:16:58 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: Who the hell would hire this guy?


img.fark.net
 
2013-06-23 10:21:14 AM  

thamike: Satanic_Hamster: Who the hell would hire this guy?

[img.fark.net image 600x400]


See, that would be more effective if I knew who that was.
 
2013-06-23 10:25:17 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: thamike: Satanic_Hamster: Who the hell would hire this guy?

[img.fark.net image 600x400]

See, that would be more effective if I knew who that was.


TMZ guy.

/he's a lawyer!
 
2013-06-23 10:26:47 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: Speaking of collecting unemployment... That's another thing I've been wondering. What the hell is this dumbass' plan? Does he just plan on living on the charity of others the rest of his life? Who the hell would hire this guy?


I don't think he was thinking long-term at the time.  But Daniel Ellsburg has made a living for the last forty years.
 
2013-06-23 10:30:54 AM  

Misconduc: Traitor is a traitor, doesn't matter where he stops he's eating a bullet.




Then shoot down the plane carrying him and call it done.
You know they've done worse things for less provocation.

The problem with calling people a traitor is it implies they gave aid to the enemy.
What he did was spill the beans on things the administration then claims were widely known, legal and inconsequential.
So who's the enemy? China? Russia? The American people? All the terrorists this program fails to catch?

What he did was steal data from his employer (the extent of which we still don't know), but why they want him is he embarrassed a bunch of politicians.
You don't get a fair or speedy trial for that crime. You get thrown in a hole and forgotten until a few election cycles have passed.

This is political now. If he catches a missile along his merry way then it becomes an international shiat storm. That might be a price a politician is willing to pay, but I'd prefer WWIII not get a kick start because our leaders got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

This surveillance program was wrong and ineffective. The right thing to do would be to burn it to the ground, admit we were wrong, and let this guy fade into obscurity.
 
2013-06-23 10:33:59 AM  

way south: Then shoot down the plane carrying him and call it done.
You know they've done worse things for less provocation.


There's that "they" again.
 
2013-06-23 10:37:22 AM  

Biological Ali: The current media circus isn't remotely close to a "national conversation"


we all mock the media for the shiatty job it does with holding politicians feet to the fire, how they are only after scandal and ratings, and their celebrity worship....but then they report on something that makes half the population go "I KNEW IT!" and they then forget about every single on of those criticisms and follow along because it's exactly what they wanted to hear.
 
2013-06-23 10:39:46 AM  
If there was evidence that the NSA was acting as an eavesdropper for hire for insider trading, or selling info to corporations about their adversaries, or spying on politicians for their political opponents, then I would be fairly incensed.  The main part about this that I find problematic is that not only is the NSA outsourcing surveillance, they're outsourcing it to the lowest common denominator.
 
2013-06-23 10:42:41 AM  

thamike: vinniethepoo: Because treason is specifically defined in the U.S. Constitution as providing aid and comfort to America's enemies during wartime? Whatever young Snowden's done, he hasn't done that.

It's a good thing he isn't charged with treason then.

Al-Awlaki?  That guy committed treason, and he was given the aforementioned punishment.  He's another darling of the Fark Freedom League.


Drone circling Venezuela in 3, 2, 1...
 
2013-06-23 10:45:01 AM  

MurphyMurphy: Wherever he goes, Snowden's going to have to be very careful where he picks up his connecting flights.


Also careful that his flights don't have a chance of passing through airspace (US or international) controlled by US ATC.
 
2013-06-23 10:45:22 AM  

chachi88: Drone circling Venezuela in 3, 2, 1...


Oh, man, now you've done it.  Blood in the water for Those Who Fear for You.
 
2013-06-23 10:46:44 AM  

AndreMA: Also careful that his flights don't have a chance of passing through airspace (US or international) controlled by US ATC.


because?
 
2013-06-23 10:48:37 AM  
I'm guessing most of the people here calling for death without due process are the ones who scream the loudest about action X being unconstitutional when person/party in power Y that they oppose does nearly anything.
 
2013-06-23 10:49:16 AM  
Snowden does not sound like a reliable source of intelligence.  He was on the job for a very short time and may have been smart enough to realize that the lies he told about his education and training would catch upwith him.

This behavior by countries like Russia towards the U.S clearly illustrates the value of a reset button when dealing with Putin.  Its amazing how Putin supports our foreign policy and works together with us to help make the world safer.  Maybe if we mail him 10 reset buttons and promise to let him take Georgia, we'll get 10 times the cooperation.
 
2013-06-23 10:49:32 AM  
We have some smug Mf'er here on Fark. Just because you feel it is ok to spy on everything because you are ok with it does not make it right...or the American thing to do. It's sneaky shiat. It undermines my trust in our government. It undermines our freedom. It screams a lack of integrity to do the right thing when we cannot see behind the veil of secrecy. I can't even have phone sex with my wife without a NSA 3-way. Fark that noise.
 
2013-06-23 10:50:23 AM  

log_jammin: AndreMA: Also careful that his flights don't have a chance of passing through airspace (US or international) controlled by US ATC.

because?


Apparently the chuckleheads here think that we'd use US air power to force down a commerical jet to extract someone we'd like to arrest.

Given that we've let actual fugutives from justice live abroad for decades, I don't see that happening.  This guy isn't even as interesting as Bobby Fischer, and he spent a decade "hiding" in Iceland.
 
2013-06-23 10:51:40 AM  

thamike: Mrtraveler01: What positive reforms are going to come out of this "national conversation"?

I think a lot of these people were either in grade school or just not paying attention a decade ago, when this legislation was in its infancy and was basically a blank check to all the agencies, even ones that don't have any business having it.

It's sort of like people who think terrorism is the biggest existential threat America has ever faced, and they say that with a straight face to people who grew up during the days of Mutually Assured Destruction.


I grew up in the days of MAD.  Terrorism is a bigger existential threat.  Why?  Because terrorists actually strike.  The US and the USSR were never going to have a hot war.  Neither side was or is suicidal.  Terrorists?  They are.
 
2013-06-23 10:53:13 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: This guy isn't even as interesting as Bobby Fischer, and he spent a decade "hiding" in Iceland


I actually saw him several times in the downtown area. Always looked a little crazy.
 
2013-06-23 10:54:20 AM  

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: It's sneaky shiat


It's a SPY agency. Just because the internet has revolutionized information exchange doesn't make everyone entitled to all information.  It's perfectly fair to want to know, and even try to find out.  But it's not necessarily info you are entitled to automatically receive.

And your wife likes it when they watch.
 
2013-06-23 10:55:51 AM  

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: We have some smug Mf'er here on Fark. Just because you feel it is ok to spy on everything because you are ok with it does not make it right...or the American thing to do. It's sneaky shiat. It undermines my trust in our government. It undermines our freedom. It screams a lack of integrity to do the right thing when we cannot see behind the veil of secrecy. I can't even have phone sex with my wife without a NSA 3-way. Fark that noise.


...and like everyone else here who's having "OMG THE NSA IS SPYING ON ME!" reaction, you're vastly over-estimating your own importance in the universe.

The NSA isn't spying on you.  They're not spying on me.  They're collecting all the data they can, and then sifting through, looking for certain people, certain voices, certain connection.

They don't have the time or resorces to spy on you or me or Doroles Twatwaffle in Duluth; they have to run full out just to find the few scraps they're looking for; it's like gold-mining: you ignore the tons of worthless dirt you have to sift through to find a few flakes of gold.
 
2013-06-23 10:55:56 AM  

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: I can't even have phone sex with my wife without a NSA 3-way. Fark that noise.


Yes.  You're SO interesting that the NSA is listening to your phone conversations.
 
2013-06-23 10:56:01 AM  

letrole: Again, it's a privilege that comes with paying a phone bill.


Getting what you purchase is a privilege? Interesting theory.

2/10
 
2013-06-23 10:56:04 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: Apparently the chuckleheads here think that we'd use US air power to force down a commerical jet to extract someone we'd like to arrest.

Given that we've let actual fugutives from justice live abroad for decades, I don't see that happening.  This guy isn't even as interesting as Bobby Fischer, and he spent a decade "hiding" in Iceland.


I was just hoping one would actually flat out say it instead of all the implying they like to do.
 
2013-06-23 10:56:53 AM  
Cuba, huh? Lee Harvey Snowden.
 
2013-06-23 10:59:32 AM  

sprgrss: I grew up in the days of MAD. Terrorism is a bigger existential threat. Why? Because terrorists actually strike. The US and the USSR were never going to have a hot war. Neither side was or is suicidal. Terrorists? They are.


That's not a bigger existential threat then the instantaneous destruction of the world as we know it and the deaths of almost everybody on it.  it might be more real to you because you've seen it happen, but it's simply not a bigger existential threat. MAD was what kept it from happening, yes, but that was a tenuous situation.  There was a real threat of nuclear war.  A couple of thousand screaming Arabs don't scare me. Well, unless they have a viable nuclear arsenal.
 
2013-06-23 10:59:42 AM  

log_jammin: Dwight_Yeast: Apparently the chuckleheads here think that we'd use US air power to force down a commerical jet to extract someone we'd like to arrest.

Given that we've let actual fugutives from justice live abroad for decades, I don't see that happening.  This guy isn't even as interesting as Bobby Fischer, and he spent a decade "hiding" in Iceland.

I was just hoping one would actually flat out say it instead of all the implying they like to do.


They're afraid if they spell it out on the internet, the NSA will send the black helicopters or the drones or zombie Eldridge Cleaver for them.
 
2013-06-23 10:59:52 AM  

log_jammin: AndreMA: Also careful that his flights don't have a chance of passing through airspace (US or international) controlled by US ATC.

because?


A convenient diversion for "weather" reasons to a US airport.
 
2013-06-23 11:01:24 AM  

Cornelius Dribble: Cuba, huh? Lee Harvey Snowden.


Snowden's neither an assassin nor a patsy.  He's just a little thick in the head.
 
2013-06-23 11:02:28 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: They're afraid if they spell it out on the internet, the NSA will send the black helicopters or the drones or zombie Eldridge Cleaver for them.


God, can you imagine if our intelligence community was even remotely that effective?
 
2013-06-23 11:03:43 AM  

sendtodave: Anything that calls the legitimacy of the government into question, however, IS un-America.  Like him.


How's everything going over there in Simplemindedville?
 
2013-06-23 11:04:34 AM  

sprgrss: thamike: Mrtraveler01: What positive reforms are going to come out of this "national conversation"?

I think a lot of these people were either in grade school or just not paying attention a decade ago, when this legislation was in its infancy and was basically a blank check to all the agencies, even ones that don't have any business having it.

It's sort of like people who think terrorism is the biggest existential threat America has ever faced, and they say that with a straight face to people who grew up during the days of Mutually Assured Destruction.

I grew up in the days of MAD.  Terrorism is a bigger existential threat.  Why?  Because terrorists actually strike.  The US and the USSR were never going to have a hot war.  Neither side was or is suicidal.  Terrorists?  They are.


I did as well. I think you're wrong. And the odds were MUCH higher. At worst a terrorist might be able to take out one US city with a loose nuke. They cannot destroy the United States. They cannot end human civilization. While in the middle of a fairly known situation it was very unlikely for either side in the Cold War to ever use nukes. However, it certainly was not impossible. Think of the Cuban Missile Crisis and then instances such as Able Archer in 1983. The threat was the unknown leading to mistakes that escalate into someone taking a stupid action. What was at stake was not some "low level" threat of losing three, a few hundred, thousands or maybe even hundreds of thousands of Americans. What was at stake was that the US and global civilization could be completely destroyed within an hour of any major misstep between two superpowers who did not exactly always make it easy to read what the other side was up to.

Of course, in both situations it seems the greatest harm to the US it has done to itself is its overreaction to perceived threat. In the Cold War we became a bit afraid of our own shadow if someone said the world "communist" and allowed the stepping on come civil liberties and stepped away from our own ideals abroad (installing/supporting ruthless dictators for example just because they said they were on "our side"). In this new fear of terrorism we do the same to ourselves for the fear of terrorism.
 
2013-06-23 11:04:57 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: log_jammin: AndreMA: Also careful that his flights don't have a chance of passing through airspace (US or international) controlled by US ATC.

because?

Apparently the chuckleheads here think that we'd use US air power to force down a commerical jet to extract someone we'd like to arrest.

Given that we've let actual fugutives from justice live abroad for decades, I don't see that happening.  This guy isn't even as interesting as Bobby Fischer, and he spent a decade "hiding" in Iceland.


See above. All it would take would be for a judge to issue an order to air traffic control to divert the plane to a US airport. No missiles needed. It would be an international incident, but if drone strikes that actually kill people in countries we're not at war with are "permitted" why wouldn't such an abuse of air traffic control be?
 
2013-06-23 11:05:07 AM  

AndreMA: log_jammin: AndreMA: Also careful that his flights don't have a chance of passing through airspace (US or international) controlled by US ATC.

because?

A convenient diversion for "weather" reasons to a US airport.


Wouldn't the plane have to be in U.S. airspace?
 
2013-06-23 11:06:04 AM  

jack21221: thamike:
Nothing he has done has been out of necessity.

Necessity for his own safety and freedom. Sure, he COULD have just stayed in the US and been tortured like Manning was... but if I were in that position, I'd feel it was a necessity to flee.


If he wasn't a traitorous biatch, he wouldn't have that "necessity" now would he?
 
2013-06-23 11:08:13 AM  

AndreMA: See above. All it would take would be for a judge to issue an order to air traffic control to divert the plane to a US airport. No missiles needed. It would be an international incident, but if drone strikes that actually kill people in countries we're not at war with are "permitted" why wouldn't such an abuse of air traffic control be?


And could you point out to me a single example of where we've actually done that?

Or is that just your paranoia talking?
 
2013-06-23 11:10:16 AM  

Andromeda: quatchi: "Moscow will not be his final destination," it said, raising the possibility of Iceland or Ecuador as Snowden's final destination.

*dice rolling noise*

Out of the frying pan (or wok)...

Did anyone ever figure out why he didn't just go to Iceland or Ecuador to begin with?  If I was about to piss off the US government I'd at least make sure I was in the same hemisphere as the place I want to end up.


Or Cuba; then send Washington a Johnny Cash salute.
 
2013-06-23 11:12:02 AM  

digistil: I predict after he hands over US intel sources to Russia, Pootie Poot offers him up to the US in exchange for something like staying out of Syria or the re-hiring of Paula Deen on the Food Network.


That deal better include the wholesale disappearance of certain Kardashians & Jenners.
 
2013-06-23 11:12:33 AM  

AndreMA: t if drone strikes that actually kill people in countries we're not at war with are "permitted"


hey! quotes again! when you put quotes around a word that makes it suspicious without having to back up a statemen.. neat!
 
2013-06-23 11:12:35 AM  

AndreMA: Dwight_Yeast: log_jammin: AndreMA: Also careful that his flights don't have a chance of passing through airspace (US or international) controlled by US ATC.

because?

Apparently the chuckleheads here think that we'd use US air power to force down a commerical jet to extract someone we'd like to arrest.

Given that we've let actual fugutives from justice live abroad for decades, I don't see that happening.  This guy isn't even as interesting as Bobby Fischer, and he spent a decade "hiding" in Iceland.

See above. All it would take would be for a judge to issue an order to air traffic control to divert the plane to a US airport. No missiles needed. It would be an international incident, but if drone strikes that actually kill people in countries we're not at war with are "permitted" why wouldn't such an abuse of air traffic control be?


Because I don't think the US government cares about this enough to create an international incident. People are freaking out about this as if the US government wants nothing short of him dead. Sure, some politicians are screaming, but I think that's largely because they think that saying big, dramatic things will help get them votes from their constituents and make sure they are not looking "soft" on national security. What did he do? He told us that the US government was doing something most people, and I'm guessing most intelligent enemies of the US, already suspected they were doing. So yes, there will be a lot of dramatic words, but this doesn't rise to the level of creating an international incident over it. Some of the population might be worked up into a tizzy over this, but I doubt the real people making real decisions are. Pissed off a bit? Yeah, some of them might be. Enough to act as stupidly as many seem to suggest they do? No, I seriously doubt it.
 
2013-06-23 11:14:04 AM  

Anti_illuminati: National conversation? You mean the media failing to do any kind of actual analysis and armchair political activists like the teenagers over on Reddit whining about privacy, but at the same time posting random pics of creepos and fat people they take in public? This is no more a public issue than Kanye naming his baby North West. It is not smug to be privy to the same information that's been happening in the country for decades, nor the reaction the country takes. I'm sure the ones who are actually not surprised about this situation are the ones  actually doing something about it.


Barack Obama RAND PAUL will fix it if I just keep saying bad things about the government from the comfort of my computer chair!
 
2013-06-23 11:15:51 AM  

DrPainMD: execute (after fair trials, of course)


Heh. Yeah.

inigomontoya.jpg
 
2013-06-23 11:16:31 AM  

justoneznot: Good job US Government. You've gone so hard after him that the only logical place for him to go is a place we're most at odds with. And I'm sure they'll want to know everything he knows, and since the US government has been so hostile to him, he likely has lost any hesitation he might have had about giving up secret information to them.


B b b but, I thought he was doing this because he loves our country.

/ spying on US citizens is bad!
// spying on China is bad? O_o
 
2013-06-23 11:16:47 AM  
And I love the cries of 'Stasi' from kids who wouldn't know the Stasi if they were dragged out of their house at night, beaten within an inch of their lives, and then left to rot in a cell for a month.
 
2013-06-23 11:17:51 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: doczoidberg: All he did was tell the public what its own government was doing.

Anyone who thinks this is "treason" is kind of a dumbass.

Treason is a very specific charge in this country, defined in our constitution.

And this doesn't even come close. They're not even charging him with espionage.


If they reviewed even one document they weren't supposed to, and that's a pretty safe assumption, wouldn't that make him a whistleblower, with all the protections afforded under the whidtleblower protection act?

Besides, we're thinking rather locally about this. How do we have any right to criticize a man for revealing that we have our hand in the same cookie jar that we're all outraged about China eating from?
/cookie robots
 
2013-06-23 11:21:06 AM  

generallyso: [img.fark.net image 500x636]



keep the little people afraid and watching each other.  makes our job alot easier.
 
2013-06-23 11:29:34 AM  
Where is he?


img.fark.net

/This traitor is no champion of the left as some are making him out to be
 
2013-06-23 11:34:07 AM  

DrPainMD: robohobo: So, Farkers, what's your balance? What are you willing to give up? How far are you willing to bend over in the name of 'security'?

0% security, 100% privacy.

Close all foreign bases and execute (after fair trials, of course) anybody who, while in the employ of the government or a contractor, violated any person's human rights in another country*, and the terrorism threat vanishes.

* - This would include a lot of the coverts ops guys from the CIA and almost all of the covert ops guys from the DoD.


http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=3005#comic">http:/ /www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=3005#comic
 
2013-06-23 11:35:06 AM  
There is a great deal of amusing irony in the countries he's taken refuge in
 
2013-06-23 11:35:41 AM  

skullkrusher: There is a great deal of amusing irony in the countries he's taken refuge in


or plans to travel through to take refuge in I should add
 
2013-06-23 11:37:35 AM  
letrole: Again, it's a privilege that comes with paying a phone bill.
AndreMA: Getting what you purchase is a privilege? Interesting theory.

Yes, it's the theory that you must pay for the privilege of making calls. Even making arrangements for payment is not a right. If you're a deadbeat, the phone company might turn you down as a credit risk.

There is no right of telephony.

I'm not being awkward, but when did your desire to make snarky remarks outstrip your capacity to form coherent arguments?
 
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