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(Gawker)   "I am sorry that it has come to this." One of the 22-a-day's letter   (gawker.com) divider line 389
    More: Sad, Operation Iraqi Freedom, Mosul, Joint Special Operations Command, widows and orphans, international incidents, Dungeons & Dragons deities, sufficient reason  
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24281 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jun 2013 at 12:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-23 02:25:19 AM
IMABIGMORAN: Obama promised in 2008 to have all combat brigades out of Iraq in 16 months.

That was obviously an absurd campaign promise pipe dream and there's no way he could have achieved such a thing once he took office.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38744453/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/ la st-full-us-combat-brigade-leaves-iraq/#.UcaTefmqnHQ

It took 19 whole months to do that.
 
2013-06-23 02:26:05 AM

Bith Set Me Up: There seems to be a link between concussions and insanity too. Chris Benoit, for example.


It seems to be more like depression, other mood changes, Alzheimer's like symptoms, and possible delusions. Insanity is not a precise word.
 
2013-06-23 02:26:21 AM

STRYPERSWINE: bwilson27: Kurmudgeon: STRYPERSWINE: And now we're seeing his WMDs at work in Syria, as many suspected all along. Speaking of vindication.

Funny that, I just favorited you in dark red as "damnable liar".

Funny, I've got him favorited in dark red, too, as "Complete warmongering POS"

wow that's totally mature.  Nobody WANTS war.  Well, Saddam did, but I mean none of US does.  My point was that Saddam started this and he alone is to blame.  And no, he did NOT fully and immediately comply. He stalled for weeks, moving stuff from one site to another.  It was a joke.

But don't let that stop you from coloring and name calling,


Some of the reports from the inspectors made it pretty obvious what was going on.  The inspectors are denied entry into a building for several days.  The entire time they are trying to get in, trucks are driving in and driving out of said building.  Then Saddam says, "oh all right.  I'll let you inspect."  You'd have to be an idiot to not know that stuff was being moved.  What the "stuff" was and where it went remains unknown.
 
2013-06-23 02:26:22 AM
What gets me is that there are ideologues who want to throw women into this combat meat grinder. And they'll succeed too, even if they have to lower the physical standards of what it takes to be a combat soldier.

On the upside, once women start coming home from the war with blown off limbs, damaged souls and mangled faces, maybe then someone will be motivated to DO SOMETHING for our injured veterans...
 
2013-06-23 02:27:21 AM

WhoopAssWayne: Spoken like a typical liberal who likes Obama to pump his ass every 4 years. Does he at least give you a kiss first? It's traditional in some countries, not sure about Kenya.


I've heard he's a very caring lover.
 
2013-06-23 02:28:12 AM

bwilson27: PLONK.


Dude, I'm laughing my ass off here - hahahaha, those we're some pretty good put downs for grown men.

BTW, I actually liked Smile, and I"m glad you're over your depression. No night-diving!
 
2013-06-23 02:28:57 AM
I'm so thankful that medicine and counseling has helped me, and I am so sorry that similar measures failed this man. The human brain is the most magnificent biological structure that we know of, hopefully soon TBI and mental illnesses will be tackled with the same zeal as cancer and HIV.
 
2013-06-23 02:30:27 AM

bwilson27: STRYPERSWINE: bwilson27: Kurmudgeon: STRYPERSWINE: And now we're seeing his WMDs at work in Syria, as many suspected all along. Speaking of vindication.

Funny that, I just favorited you in dark red as "damnable liar".

Funny, I've got him favorited in dark red, too, as "Complete warmongering POS"

wow that's totally mature.  Nobody WANTS war.  Well, Saddam did, but I mean none of US does.  My point was that Saddam started this and he alone is to blame.  And no, he did NOT fully and immediately comply. He stalled for weeks, moving stuff from one site to another.  It was a joke.

But don't let that stop you from coloring and name calling,

Um, the coloring and name calling was a result of the CRAP the YOU type. Nothing else.
But you're right... I should just change your description to just regular TROLL.




DURRRRR DERP
 
2013-06-23 02:33:28 AM

yourmomlovestetris: On the upside, once women start coming home from the war with blown off limbs, damaged souls and mangled faces, maybe then someone will be motivated to DO SOMETHING for our injured veterans...


That won't make a Goddamned bit of difference to the chickenhawks and war profiteers.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-06-23 02:33:46 AM

J. Frank Parnell: WhoopAssWayne: Spoken like a typical liberal who likes Obama to pump his ass every 4 years. Does he at least give you a kiss first? It's traditional in some countries, not sure about Kenya.

I've heard he's a very caring lover.


Meh. I've heard he reads all his dirty-talk off a prompter.
 
2013-06-23 02:34:13 AM
MurphyMurphy:
Look this HARD IN THE FARKING FACE. This is what the stars and stripes will be known for by future generations if we can't learn to be honest with ourselves and face the realities we are causing across the world while we silently lie to ourselves.

//I feel partly responsible too, we all should


So my post was an exasperating, lengthy rebuttal to the above sentiment, but instead of inflicting that on everyone, let me summarize:

If you are going to kill yourself, and there are people in your life who will be traumatized by your decision, that's fine. Sometimes people's bad chemicals make life unbearable.  But you farking OWE those people REAL explanations for your decision. Not the always popular, but always hollow "I had to do terrible things that I can't talk about" BULLshiat. You're going to kill yourself. There will be no consequences. I for one am certain the government is doing terrible things. It may even be making otherwise good people do terrible things, but if you're going to write a damn short story for a suicide note, posterity demands you throw in a couple incriminating lines about the "enormous terrible deeds" you were asked to do.  Otherwise, the rest of your suicide note reads like a guy who killed himself for no other reasons than Rachel Maddow's, and Bill Maher's nightly talking points - and that's no good reason to kill yourself at all.

So I don't believe you.  I don't believe any of your bullshiat.  Like 99% of the people who self-terminate, pain, psychiatric trauma, lost love, or huge disappointment was not a factor in your decision - you couldn't get something you wanted (it always comes down to that) - it was probably inconsequential - so you killed yourself. That's not a fate worthy of my sympathy, or consideration - and in the end, your failure to effectively communicate anything of any real substance regarding something so "enormous" makes your death as pointless as your life. Good riddance.

/USMC vet
//Never pulled my trigger on anyone - never needed to (I guess my manly essence drove the guys with guns away). Never had to face an enemy explosion or offensive - Thank Jesus or FSM or Buddah or whoever works for you...
///Did my time in the sandbox and have even witnessed people I farking SERVED with go to the "we were forced to do terrible things" card, when in fact we did no such thing.  The only dead Iraqi's I ever saw had been *starved* to death by their own unit commanders. Can't speak to those who stayed after I left.
////May kill myself one day, but it won't be over mysterious, unspecified military horrors, or Obamacare, or Nancy Pelosi taking my pistol away.  It will actually probably be because George R.R. won't finish the books before he dies, and I'll have to read awful fan fiction to finish the series. I'll make sure to add at least a couple details to anything "enormous" that influences my decision though.
 
2013-06-23 02:34:43 AM

STRYPERSWINE: wow that's totally mature. Nobody WANTS war. Well, Saddam did, but I mean none of US does. My point was that Saddam started this and he alone is to blame. And no, he did NOT fully and immediately comply. He stalled for weeks, moving stuff from one site to another. It was a joke.

But don't let that stop you from coloring and name calling,


It was a joke.  The US using political clout in the U.N. to selectively enforce resolutions for the purpose of bullying.  Iraq never attacked the US.  We sure farked them up though.

OgreMagi: Some of the reports from the inspectors made it pretty obvious what was going on. The inspectors are denied entry into a building for several days. The entire time they are trying to get in, trucks are driving in and driving out of said building. Then Saddam says, "oh all right. I'll let you inspect." You'd have to be an idiot to not know that stuff was being moved. What the "stuff" was and where it went remains unknown.


Remember that time the UN sent IAEA inspectors to America's nuclear facilities?  No?
 
2013-06-23 02:34:43 AM

DeathByGeekSquad: I like how he references being abandoned by those who took the easy way out, and then takes the easy way out.  I have no sympathy for anyone who takes their own life.  I've known people who've succeeded, known folks who've failed.  I've seen the support systems, experienced the support systems, and know that if you truly want help, there is always someone willing.


It's very easy to make statements like this until you walk in someone else's shoes for 10 or 20 years and suffer how they suffer. I had my best friend commit suicide about 8 years back. In hindsight, the signs were there but you never know. He suffered all his life with bipolar disorder and only found out why he was so f*cked up during the last two years. He wondered why nobody told him before.

He went to all the support systems and doctors, their solution was to dope you up so you walk around in a fog. This guy was a farking genius. He would rather live and be able to think somewhat clearly rather than be a walking zombie. Finally, his demons were too much and he pulled the trigger after visiting all of his friends. His last visit, he seemed so calm and at peace. I miss him greatly.
 
2013-06-23 02:35:22 AM

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: That won't make a Goddamned bit of difference to the chickenhawks and war profiteers.


Cowards like you would sit home hiding in the closet while the rest of the world burned. You disgust me.
 
2013-06-23 02:36:57 AM
Or write the letter and don't kill yourself. Killing yourself doesn't help the people you leave behind. You're not saving them from perceived or potential problems. You're forever burdening them with the guilt of your death.
 
2013-06-23 02:38:02 AM

STRYPERSWINE:
First of all, great memory. Secondly, you will always lose with this simple yes or no question: did Saddam fully and immediately comply?


The term you are looking for is "Casus Belli."
 
2013-06-23 02:38:37 AM

Cyno01: Uh, maybe a few trolls on the internet sure, but the general public? Nobodys spitting on troops returning from the middle east, go to a restaurant in uniform nowadays and you get 10 people offering to pay for your meal. The war in Iraq isnt any more just than Vietnam was, but holy shiat do people bend over backwards for vets nowadays compared to then. Back then everybody was happy to blame drafted soldiers, nowadays most folks seem to reserve blame for any unpleasantness for the leaders of our now volunteer army.


All depends on your local area.

static.guim.co.uk


Also, just because people are flagrant trolls on the internet doesn't mean they don't actually feel that way.
 
2013-06-23 02:39:13 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: That won't make a Goddamned bit of difference to the chickenhawks and war profiteers.

Cowards like you would sit home hiding in the closet while the rest of the world burned. You disgust me.


Whereas you applaud and support the chickenhawks and war profiteers. Because you are NOT a coward, but a tough tough MAN.
 
2013-06-23 02:41:09 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Yep, the USA should just sit back and let the rest of the world kill each other. After all, 1 American life is more valuable than 1,000 foreigners. You're farking disgusting.


You are setting up so many false, bad arguments here that it simply requires vivisection. First, what evidence is there that the world will just kill each other if America does not intervene? Next, at what point in this thread has anyone stated that American lives are worth any more, or any less for that matter, than non-American lives? Where are you even getting the 1:1000 ratio of American to non-American lives from, your intuition? Finally, please cite some statistics indicating that American intervention actually HAS moved Iraq and/or Afghanistan away from violent, backwards killing fields and towards stability and peace.

Cannot do any of that? Then kindly go jerk off into your Red Wings jersey and go to bed, the adults would like to continue discussing serious topics with serious arguments.
 
2013-06-23 02:42:53 AM

Owangotang: You are setting up so many false, bad arguments here that it simply requires vivisection. First, what evidence is there that the world will just kill each other if America does not intervene?


We didn't need to get involved in WWII, did we?
 
2013-06-23 02:43:35 AM

bwilson27: Whereas you applaud

... blah blah blah

Why did it take so long to get Smile out? What happened in '67? Did you get that kiss or not?
 
2013-06-23 02:46:53 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Owangotang: You are setting up so many false, bad arguments here that it simply requires vivisection. First, what evidence is there that the world will just kill each other if America does not intervene?

We didn't need to get involved in WWII, did we?


We stayed out of it until we were actually attacked, dipshiat.
 
2013-06-23 02:50:54 AM
There hasn't been any reasons for war in a long time, really.  We can use machine translation on a global network to ease the confusion of trying to talk top people with other languages.  We have the ability to divert water for life itself and crop growth.  We can ease away from fossil fuels to source useful power for almost any need.  We can grow and distribute food and the seeds for it to anywhere in the world.  First world nations have surpluses beyond the scope of imagination.  We can design and build almost anything we can conceptualize.  We've figured out that melanin and physical features differences are a matter of diverse genetics within the species.

The only thing we can;t manage to do is get past the idea the we should own whatever resources may be located within whatever imaginary lines we draw on the planet.

Or that some people are more entitled that others to benefit from what we can take from the planet to sustain us.

Or that somehow, unless somebody, somewhere makes a buck off of everything that moves, that we're getting shafted out of something, somehow.  No matter how full or bellies or warm our homes or blessed we may be.  And the people who con us, century after century, since 'err a word was written, into stomping off, banner high, to kill some other poor bastards trying to survive on this blue planet and set light to THEIR banner - neither lift sword nor arrow, nor give a damn about the havoc in the wake of their greed.  We call this  patriotism.
 
2013-06-23 02:52:31 AM

bwilson27: We stayed out of it until we were actually attacked, dipshiat.


Doesn't matter, we were under no further threat after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
 
2013-06-23 02:53:21 AM

Cyno01: I know mental health diagnoses werent what they are now (but otoh neither was mental health care...), but how does this compare to soldiers returning from WWII? I know Iraq/Afghanistan deployment has been around 2 million soldiers total, and WWII was closer to 15, was there a comparable rate of suicide among those returning soldiers and its just never ever talked about at all? I know suicide was high among returning Vietnam Vets, but not like today where more soldiers have killed themselves than died in combat. What the hell has changed?


Suicide friendly culture.

blanchae: DeathByGeekSquad: I like how he references being abandoned by those who took the easy way out, and then takes the easy way out.  I have no sympathy for anyone who takes their own life.  I've known people who've succeeded, known folks who've failed.  I've seen the support systems, experienced the support systems, and know that if you truly want help, there is always someone willing.

It's very easy to make statements like this until you walk in someone else's shoes for 10 or 20 years and suffer how they suffer. I had my best friend commit suicide about 8 years back. In hindsight, the signs were there but you never know. He suffered all his life with bipolar disorder and only found out why he was so f*cked up during the last two years. He wondered why nobody told him before.

He went to all the support systems and doctors, their solution was to dope you up so you walk around in a fog. This guy was a farking genius. He would rather live and be able to think somewhat clearly rather than be a walking zombie. Finally, his demons were too much and he pulled the trigger after visiting all of his friends. His last visit, he seemed so calm and at peace. I miss him greatly.


It's very easy to dismiss statements like mine if you know someone who committed suicide, because you want to believe that they did everything in their power to save themselves.

They gave up.  They left their family and friends behind.  They chose to leave you.  The system didn't force their hand.  The doctors didn't kill them.  They killed themselves, nobody else.

Finally, did you ever stop to think how I knew multiple people who've either killed themselves, or attempted to kill themselves?  Have -you- ever lived in their shoes for 10-20 years and suffered how they suffered, or do you just assume you understand because of your best friend?

People who commit suicide create victims with their final selfish act.  Your 'best friend' chose to create a void in your life.  Chose to saddle you with their departure.  Chose to add to your lifelong baggage.
 
2013-06-23 02:54:34 AM

STRYPERSWINE: bwilson27: Kurmudgeon: STRYPERSWINE: And now we're seeing his WMDs at work in Syria, as many suspected all along. Speaking of vindication.

Funny that, I just favorited you in dark red as "damnable liar".

Funny, I've got him favorited in dark red, too, as "Complete warmongering POS"

wow that's totally mature.  Nobody WANTS war.  Well, Saddam did, but I mean none of US does.  My point was that Saddam started this and he alone is to blame.  And no, he did NOT fully and immediately comply. He stalled for weeks, moving stuff from one site to another.  It was a joke.

But don't let that stop you from coloring and name calling,


What Saddam had was basically non-functional and outdated.   It's well known that Saddam's stalling and refusal to play by Bush's rules was largely motivated by a fear of looking weak to Iran, Iraq's chief rival in the region and a country with a vested interest in Iraq due to its Shia population, among other things.   Anyone with a basic understanding of the Arab concept of "saving face" will understand why Saddam was essentially between a "rock and a hard place" during this time.   Chemical weapons were widely used during the Iran-Iraq war and was likely one of the few deterrents that Saddam had for dealing with the Iranian problem.  His stockpiles had been severely, if not completely, reduced in the wake of the Gulf War and to admit so publicly would be a tremendous loss in power vis-à-vis Iran.    Of course, the threat of a US invasion was equally problematic, but perhaps Saddam thought the US population and UN would be able to stave off such a significant military action.    Saddam was a stubborn, proud little bastard and felt, perhaps through his own arrogance, it was better to stand up the US than weaken his position in the Middle East.   I assure you, however, that at no time did his stockpile of WMDs pose a clear an immediate threat to the United States, despite what Bush/Cheney tried to sell to the world.

Are you familiar with Curveball?    You know, the guy that the US based a very large chunk of its pre-invasion WMD intelligence on?  Are you aware that he was proven to be a fraud?  How can you possibly still defend the invasion from a WMD perspective?    At least pick something like 'regime change in the interest of human rights' or some other opinion-based idea that can't be discarded by facts.

Lastly, let's assume for a minute that the WMD problem was a legit issue.    The subsequent prosecution of the war, in which virtually zero planning was done beyond 4-5 months post-invasion, is indefensible.   "Stay the course" is not a valid strategy, particularly when the current "course" is leading the country into a civil war and there exists no discernible exit strategy.    Bush clearly never really "got it" until nearly 4 years into the war when he realized the only way to pacify the country is to flood it with troops and violently eradicate the enemy while borrowing from the Vietnamization strategy and focusing on ways to force Iraq to take control of its own security.  For four years we drove around getting blown up and shot at with very little guidance or strategy to improve the situation.   That is a failure of leadership on par with the initial failure to vet intelligence and reliance on "cherry picking" the intelligence that fit the administrations model.   Both are INEXCUSABLE and we are WELL withing our right to continue to question it and demand accountability from the people we elect to make decisions.
 
2013-06-23 02:55:56 AM
I wonder if he'll ever forgive me for failing him.
 
2013-06-23 03:02:47 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Freedom Isn't Free isn't about killing and dying in some overseas desert.


Never said it was farkstick.  In fact, I haven't really commented on our overseas operations at all.  Stop shoehorning your way in with irrelevant bullshiat.

If you're going to discuss something with me, fine, quote me and address my points.  Don't use my posts a platform to dive into some inane hate riddled spiel about global politics and just/unjust reasons for war with other countries and what your BeliefTM tells you what is and isn't true about our motivations.

That kind of stuff is above my pay-grade, as a figure of speech, and yours as well.  I am not making judgement on it because I quite simply do not have all the facts involved.  I, unlike all the politards present, prefer not to base an opinion solely on what FoxNEWS or CNN, or some jackholes blog tell me to think.  And I certainly don't make an arbitrary guess.

By all means, continue trolling like an enraged 12 year old though. It IS(still) a free country and internet.

Obviously a drinking game is right out, if we took a shot every time you ranted like a buffoon we'd be in the hospital by now. Maybe we can get a mod involved to let us know how many times you get ignored/favorited, we could start a pool.

/Duly noted, Poe's Law
 
2013-06-23 03:05:01 AM
The litmus test for war is that common wisdom is no longer applicable.

The litmus test for wisdom is that it survives the ages.

Things change.

Change is the essence of life, but if you step back enough to see how little the template for that life process changes, but rather only our views and technologies we use to interact with it, the first thing you figure out is that pain, misery, cruelty and being inhumane are counterproductive across the board.  Still waiting for the great leap forward.
 
2013-06-23 03:06:18 AM

Peki: I'm dealing with PTSD myself. I know exactly what he means with the medications, and the docs won't listen to you anyway when you tell them what's wrong because they're in the pharmaceutical companies' pockets.

I'm sorry he couldn't find a way out, and I'm sorry the his country wouldn't help in. I finally got light at the end of my tunnel, but it's been a damn dark 7 years to get here.


hugs...
 
2013-06-23 03:07:48 AM

Kittypie070: I wonder if he'll ever forgive me for failing him.


What do you think you did to fail him?
 
2013-06-23 03:09:08 AM

Cyno01: Is it because its an all volunteer army now? Why does that make soldiers less able to deal? Is it something else?


The average frontline soldier sees far, far more combat now than in WW2. Mostly because we're better at keeping them alive (body armor, modern medicine) and the enemy is worse at killing them.
 
2013-06-23 03:09:57 AM

omeganuepsilon: It IS(still) a free country and internet.


In what sense? Have you paid any attention at all to the news the past couple weeks/decade?

That kind of stuff is above my pay-grade, as a figure of speech, and yours as well.

"So shut the fark up." Is that what you're saying?

I realize you have a hard on for our military men and women. That's fine. I don't.
 
2013-06-23 03:11:22 AM
Well, that's depressing. Everything has probably been said now.

What better way to honor him them link to the shiatfest known as Gawker
There's some space between those words of his, get some ads there for Buzzfeed or something.
 
2013-06-23 03:11:40 AM

omeganuepsilon: AverageAmericanGuy: Freedom Isn't Free isn't about killing and dying in some overseas desert.

Never said it was farkstick.  In fact, I haven't really commented on our overseas operations at all.  Stop shoehorning your way in with irrelevant bullshiat.

If you're going to discuss something with me, fine, quote me and address my points.  Don't use my posts a platform to dive into some inane hate riddled spiel about global politics and just/unjust reasons for war with other countries and what your BeliefTM tells you what is and isn't true about our motivations.

That kind of stuff is above my pay-grade, as a figure of speech, and yours as well.  I am not making judgement on it because I quite simply do not have all the facts involved.  I, unlike all the politards present, prefer not to base an opinion solely on what FoxNEWS or CNN, or some jackholes blog tell me to think.  And I certainly don't make an arbitrary guess.

By all means, continue trolling like an enraged 12 year old though. It IS(still) a free country and internet.

Obviously a drinking game is right out, if we took a shot every time you ranted like a buffoon we'd be in the hospital by now. Maybe we can get a mod involved to let us know how many times you get ignored/favorited, we could start a pool.

/Duly noted, Poe's Law


What a hypocritical ass you are. You claim that AAG makes no valid points and can only call names, then you boast about how you're above that type of behavior as you throw out garbage nonsense and name-call.
Good job showing your real colors..
No, really, go back and re-read the bullshiat you just wrote if you don't believe me.
 
2013-06-23 03:15:39 AM

Frederick: STRYPERSWINE: wow that's totally mature. Nobody WANTS war. Well, Saddam did, but I mean none of US does. My point was that Saddam started this and he alone is to blame. And no, he did NOT fully and immediately comply. He stalled for weeks, moving stuff from one site to another. It was a joke.

But don't let that stop you from coloring and name calling,

It was a joke.  The US using political clout in the U.N. to selectively enforce resolutions for the purpose of bullying.  Iraq never attacked the US.  We sure farked them up though.


At the request of an Kuwait, we created a coalition force to force out the Iraqi army which had invaded a neighboring country.  Iraq lost, and part of the cease fire agreement was they had to comply with a list of demands.  The UN, being one of the most useless organizations in the history of mankind, didn't actually wish to enforce the cease fire, and there was substantial evidence that members of the UN were receiving substantial financial gains from Saddam (that's called "bribes" if you are slow).

OgreMagi: Some of the reports from the inspectors made it pretty obvious what was going on. The inspectors are denied entry into a building for several days. The entire time they are trying to get in, trucks are driving in and driving out of said building. Then Saddam says, "oh all right. I'll let you inspect." You'd have to be an idiot to not know that stuff was being moved. What the "stuff" was and where it went remains unknown.

Remember that time the UN sent IAEA inspectors to America's nuclear facilities?  No?


And?  I'm trying to work out how that has anything to do with fark all anything.  We did not lose a the war so we did not have to let anyone do anything we did not wish on our soil.  Iraq lost.  There was a cease fire agreement which Saddam did everything in his power to avoid and break.
 
2013-06-23 03:15:59 AM
bwilson27:

o_0

I wasn't expecting that kind of defense from you.

Color me surprised. (that's blue 4)
 
2013-06-23 03:17:35 AM

decora: You need to let it go.


You're probably right.

A guy I used to work with in a thankless job once told me something along the lines of:
"You know what your problem is? You give a shiat. No one else does, that's why they are happier than you. You need to stop giving a shiat about the company, only worry about your own needs and concerns"


I don't think anything you said is necessarily incorrect. And I'm not implying with that quote you think I just shouldn't give a shiat entirely. But like you said, all we can really do is stop the next one.
But can we? When we don't even get the facts anymore? When it's all kept secret from us? When even the hero's we allegedly support and practically worship come home to sound an alarm and so many turn their backs or pretend not to hear?

We that didn't have to fight, those of us that didn't have to have our souls ripped out of us in some god forsaken desert need to continue the message these guys are trying to tell. We shouldn't let it go, they need us to be their voice... anyone really. They didn't just fight the wars we asked them to, they also fought battles (literally and metaphorically) that the government doesn't want you hearing the details of.

Why should they have to come back here and fight another battle trying to get their own nation to see the truth? I think that's our cue. Even if it's seemingly meaningless words, argued in a bar, at a dinner table, on a message board or forum or fark thread.
 If we don't all learn the realities of OUR actions (our charge in this democracy is that WE are responsible FOR our government and it's actions), if we don't start learning the lessons, we'll be doomed to repeat these mistakes over and over again. Our kids will be fated to the same horribleness these kids were.
 
2013-06-23 03:18:39 AM
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-23 03:18:48 AM

OgreMagi: Frederick: STRYPERSWINE: wow that's totally mature. Nobody WANTS war. Well, Saddam did, but I mean none of US does. My point was that Saddam started this and he alone is to blame. And no, he did NOT fully and immediately comply. He stalled for weeks, moving stuff from one site to another. It was a joke.

But don't let that stop you from coloring and name calling,

It was a joke.  The US using political clout in the U.N. to selectively enforce resolutions for the purpose of bullying.  Iraq never attacked the US.  We sure farked them up though.

At the request of an Kuwait, we created a coalition force to force out the Iraqi army which had invaded a neighboring country.  Iraq lost, and part of the cease fire agreement was they had to comply with a list of demands.  The UN, being one of the most useless organizations in the history of mankind, didn't actually wish to enforce the cease fire, and there was substantial evidence that members of the UN were receiving substantial financial gains from Saddam (that's called "bribes" if you are slow).

OgreMagi: Some of the reports from the inspectors made it pretty obvious what was going on. The inspectors are denied entry into a building for several days. The entire time they are trying to get in, trucks are driving in and driving out of said building. Then Saddam says, "oh all right. I'll let you inspect." You'd have to be an idiot to not know that stuff was being moved. What the "stuff" was and where it went remains unknown.

Remember that time the UN sent IAEA inspectors to America's nuclear facilities?  No?

And?  I'm trying to work out how that has anything to do with fark all anything.  We did not lose a the war so we did not have to let anyone do anything we did not wish on our soil.  Iraq lost.  There was a cease fire agreement which Saddam did everything in his power to avoid and break.


Iraq lost a war to Kuwait?  When did that happen?
 
2013-06-23 03:20:27 AM

Frederick: OgreMagi: Frederick: STRYPERSWINE: wow that's totally mature. Nobody WANTS war. Well, Saddam did, but I mean none of US does. My point was that Saddam started this and he alone is to blame. And no, he did NOT fully and immediately comply. He stalled for weeks, moving stuff from one site to another. It was a joke.

But don't let that stop you from coloring and name calling,

It was a joke.  The US using political clout in the U.N. to selectively enforce resolutions for the purpose of bullying.  Iraq never attacked the US.  We sure farked them up though.

At the request of an Kuwait, we created a coalition force to force out the Iraqi army which had invaded a neighboring country.  Iraq lost, and part of the cease fire agreement was they had to comply with a list of demands.  The UN, being one of the most useless organizations in the history of mankind, didn't actually wish to enforce the cease fire, and there was substantial evidence that members of the UN were receiving substantial financial gains from Saddam (that's called "bribes" if you are slow).

OgreMagi: Some of the reports from the inspectors made it pretty obvious what was going on. The inspectors are denied entry into a building for several days. The entire time they are trying to get in, trucks are driving in and driving out of said building. Then Saddam says, "oh all right. I'll let you inspect." You'd have to be an idiot to not know that stuff was being moved. What the "stuff" was and where it went remains unknown.

Remember that time the UN sent IAEA inspectors to America's nuclear facilities?  No?

And?  I'm trying to work out how that has anything to do with fark all anything.  We did not lose a the war so we did not have to let anyone do anything we did not wish on our soil.  Iraq lost.  There was a cease fire agreement which Saddam did everything in his power to avoid and break.

Iraq lost a war to Kuwait?  When did that happen?


Are you seriously that stupid?
 
2013-06-23 03:22:20 AM

WhoopAssWayne: JerkyMeat: And may all you flag waving yellow ribbon farg republicans eat shiat and die. YOU are the true enemy of this nation. Thanks for your oil wars, ya farking homos.

Instead we have great liberal patriots such as yourself. When Obama lied to you about ending illegal wiretapping, stopping foreign wars, and everything else, what did you do? You voted for him again like the suckers you are, the suckers he knew you to be. And now you're hiding under your bed and p*ssing down your pant leg rather than standing up and calling him out for his crimes. Thanks again for Obama, you f*cking fools.


Waaaa, OBAMA, WWAAAA.  Zip it pinhead.   The GOP are to blame.
 
2013-06-23 03:23:08 AM

bwilson27: What a hypocritical ass you are. You claim that AAG makes no valid points and can only call names, then you boast about how you're above that type of behavior as you throw out garbage nonsense and name-call.
Good job showing your real colors..
No, really, go back and re-read the bullshiat you just wrote if you don't believe me.


What a hypocritical ass you are. You claim that ONE makes no valid points and can only call names, then you boast about how you're above that type of behavior as you throw out garbage nonsense and name-call.
Good job showing your real colors..
No, really, go back and re-read the bullshiat you just wrote if you don't believe me.

Seriously.  Yo' dog, I herd you like hypocricy in your hypocricy, so we put some hypocricy in your.....etc

I claimed that he was being irrelevant to anything I had posted and was trying to stir up irrelevant shiat, to bring attention to his anti-military stance, as he's done the whole thread.  but whatever.  If you like him so much, I bet he'd let you give him a dutch rudder or monroe exchange or something.  But please, do it elsewhere, there's enough filth in here as it is.
 
2013-06-23 03:24:09 AM

OgreMagi: There was a cease fire agreement which Saddam did everything in his power to avoid and break.


Nevertheless, we had Saddam well-contained. Potshots at our planes enforcing the no-fly zone were way down. Iraq/Saddam posed no credible threat to the US.

Yes, he was belligerent. Yes, he was probably hiding shiat. But it was small potatoes as he had virtually no capability to deliver.

Who's to say, though? Maybe he could have smuggled a dirty bomb into NYC or DC or London. In the end, though, he seemed more interested in dealing with the French and getting rich off that than being a terrorist.

None of that rises to the level of invasion, and we were wrong to go in. (I think you said as much in an earlier post)
 
2013-06-23 03:25:47 AM
omeganuepsilon:

Seriously.  Yo' dog, I herd you like hypocricy in your hypocricy, so we put some hypocricy in your.....etc

I claimed that he was being irrelevant to anything I had posted and was trying to stir up irrelevant shiat, to bring attention to his anti-military stance, as he's done the whole thread.  but whatever.  If you like him so much, I bet he'd let you give him a dutch rudder or monroe exchange or something.  But please, do it elsewhere, there's enough filth in here as it is.


Now you just sound jealous.
 
drp
2013-06-23 03:30:49 AM
I see Fark is up to its usual standards of reasoned, informed discussion here.

Or not.

Maybe I'll go check out the latest Zimmerman thread instead.

Yeah, that's the ticket.
 
2013-06-23 03:32:54 AM

drp: I see Fark is up to its usual standards of reasoned, informed discussion here.


Does say quite a bit about the mechanics of war, though.
 
2013-06-23 03:33:04 AM
and what about the 180 non-veterans who off themselves each day?
 
2013-06-23 03:34:02 AM
My two cents on farcebork --

I wish he didn't kill himself. He knew. He was TOO AWARE of "a regime built upon the idea that suffering is noble and relief is just for the weak." And it drove him to suicide.

I cannot say this enough: FARK YOU DEA! And Fark you Authoritarians. And Fark you Richard M. Nixon and your followers for this nightmare dystopia. What you've done to me, my family and friends is bad enough, but doing this shiz to our soldiers is the worst treason imaginable. May the Authoritarian scum all die painfully at the hands of those they've tormented.There you go.  Fark the DEA.

/ Tricky Dick's Legacy of Terror
 
2013-06-23 03:34:53 AM

proteus_b: and what about the 180 non-veterans who off themselves each day?


I think anybody who can survive the present socioeconomic climate of this spinny blue ball is SOME sort of a battle veteran.
 
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