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(USA Today)   The audio "expert" who claims it was Trayvon and not Zimmerman screaming for help on the 911 tape will not be allowed to testify at trial   (usatoday.com) divider line 673
    More: Obvious, George Zimmerman, Mark O'Mara, the weekend, jury, screaming  
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6086 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jun 2013 at 7:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-22 09:31:36 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Have you ever heard the term "Objection, calls for speculation?" that's what you are claiming here. If a witness were to testify that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation based on what you say, that's call to speculation and would be objected to by the defense and likely upheld.


Witnesses provide evidence, counselor. Attorneys in closng arguments argue. That is, they use the methods of inference and deduction to prove or disprove a case. An objection to attorney "speculation" based on logical presentation of arguments for inferences from evidence might draw a laugh from the judge, if it didn't anger him.
 
2013-06-22 09:32:23 PM  

lantawa: Lionel Mandrake: lantawa: Satan's Girlfriend: Even if he walks though, it's only a matter of time before the NBP hunts him down like dog he is.

What does the National Bank of Pakistan have to do with the price of tea in China?

About as much as a guy with skittles has to do with being a deadly threat.

You're not getting it. Come back to reality, young Lionel Mandrake. Come back.........


So, on top of an admitted clusterfark, you're advocating/condoning vigilante justice and murder? If what Zimmerman did was wrong, how is hoping/condoning the NBP's murder of him any better?
 
2013-06-22 09:33:30 PM  

bugontherug: Thoguh: You're gonna have to help me out here. What was Trayvon's effort to avoid confrontation?

He ran away from Zimmemerman. From which we can draw another inference, of course. That inference being that Zimmerman menaced Trayvon at that point in the conversation. Trayvon was conducting himself lawfully at the time, so he had no other reason to flee.

The inference that Zimmerman menaced Trayvon, maybe by brandishing his firearm, adds weight to the inference that Zimmerman wanted to fight, and therefore started it.


Again, objection, calls for speculation. The kind of inference that you are making would be struck down by just about any judge who wasn't on the take for the prosecution. You are asking the witness, whomever it would be, to testify that Zimmerman started the confrontation based on nothing but speculation.

I know that you hate me calling your legal acumen into question, but you really have taken the cake here tonight. You are claiming, without evidence, that Zimmerman "menaced" Martin and then making another claim that this infers that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. You are also assuming facts not in evidence by stating that maybe Zimmerman brandished his firearm before the lethal shot, which is not supported by any evidence heretofore known.
 
2013-06-22 09:35:13 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: I started to respond to your points, but then realized how ignorant of the actual facts you are that it wasn't worth the time. I'm amazed that there can still be people in these threads with your level of ignorance.


In other words you got nothin. Pretty typical of Z supporters. They only base their arguments on emotion and ignorance.
 
2013-06-22 09:37:00 PM  

Satan's Girlfriend: Popcorn Johnny: I started to respond to your points, but then realized how ignorant of the actual facts you are that it wasn't worth the time. I'm amazed that there can still be people in these threads with your level of ignorance.

In other words you got nothin. Pretty typical of Z supporters. They only base their arguments on emotion and ignorance.


George Zimmerman has placed at least 46 calls to 911 in the last eight years. In the last year, his calls focused on blacks in his gated community:
April 22, 2011: Reports "black male, 7 to 9 years old with skinny build," walking around the neighborhood.
Aug. 3, 2011: Calls in a black male he "believes is involved in
recent burglaries in the neighborhood."
Aug. 6, 2011: Fingers two black teens he thinks "have been burglarizing homes in this area."
Oct. 1, 2011: Reports two black males, approximately 20 to 30 years old, whom he does not recognize. He says he's "concerned due to recent burglaries in the area."
Feb. 2, 2012: Drops dime on a black male because it is "unknown what he is doing."
Feb. 26: Calls about Trayvon Martin
Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there is a real suspicious guy.
Asked by the dispatcher what the suspect looks like, he says:
He looks black ... Now he's coming towards me. He's got his hand in his waistband.
 http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/cop_wannabe_on_paranoid_patro l_l fV4L1N0W6y0mEwgoU0L7K/1
 
2013-06-22 09:37:20 PM  

Satan's Girlfriend: Popcorn Johnny: I started to respond to your points, but then realized how ignorant of the actual facts you are that it wasn't worth the time. I'm amazed that there can still be people in these threads with your level of ignorance.

In other words you got nothin. Pretty typical of Z supporters. They only base their arguments on emotion and ignorance.


As opposed to your statements which are demonstrably false...
 
2013-06-22 09:37:42 PM  

Satan's Girlfriend: In other words you got nothin. Pretty typical of Z supporters.


I can refute everything you said Some of your "facts" were debunked over a year ago, so I'm not going to bother with somebody as ignorant about the case as you are.
 
2013-06-22 09:37:50 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Lionel Mandrake: About as much as a guy with skittles has to do with being a deadly threat.

You know one side can't make a case when all they do is resort to cracking jokes.


I'm not trying to "make a case"

And I'm not on "one side"

Damn, you really suck
 
2013-06-22 09:38:07 PM  

Bravo Two: lantawa: Lionel Mandrake: lantawa: Satan's Girlfriend: Even if he walks though, it's only a matter of time before the NBP hunts him down like dog he is.

What does the National Bank of Pakistan have to do with the price of tea in China?

About as much as a guy with skittles has to do with being a deadly threat.

You're not getting it. Come back to reality, young Lionel Mandrake. Come back.........

So, on top of an admitted clusterfark, you're advocating/condoning vigilante justice and murder? If what Zimmerman did was wrong, how is hoping/condoning the NBP's murder of him any better?


If he was dead, we wouldn't have to have this goddamn trial...
 
2013-06-22 09:38:20 PM  
in my opinion we know exactly jack squat about what happened that night. Zimmerman's story is dubious at best as he has a vested interested in being cleared. so has every reason to spin it to make him look good and no reason to be 100% honest.

Not sure if he will walk or not but if he does I would not want to be a white man in a black neighbor hood.
 
2013-06-22 09:38:55 PM  

bugontherug: He ran away from Zimmemerman.


Uh, no. He walked into his yard and started swinging. Keep spouting off that NBC News faked 911 call horsesh*t.
 
2013-06-22 09:39:44 PM  

MagSeven: Satan's Girlfriend: Popcorn Johnny: I started to respond to your points, but then realized how ignorant of the actual facts you are that it wasn't worth the time. I'm amazed that there can still be people in these threads with your level of ignorance.

In other words you got nothin. Pretty typical of Z supporters. They only base their arguments on emotion and ignorance.

George Zimmerman has placed at least 46 calls to 911 in the last eight years. In the last year, his calls focused on blacks in his gated community:
April 22, 2011: Reports "black male, 7 to 9 years old with skinny build," walking around the neighborhood.
Aug. 3, 2011: Calls in a black male he "believes is involved in
recent burglaries in the neighborhood."
Aug. 6, 2011: Fingers two black teens he thinks "have been burglarizing homes in this area."
Oct. 1, 2011: Reports two black males, approximately 20 to 30 years old, whom he does not recognize. He says he's "concerned due to recent burglaries in the area."
Feb. 2, 2012: Drops dime on a black male because it is "unknown what he is doing."
Feb. 26: Calls about Trayvon Martin
Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there is a real suspicious guy.
Asked by the dispatcher what the suspect looks like, he says:
He looks black ... Now he's coming towards me. He's got his hand in his waistband.
 http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/cop_wannabe_on_paranoid_patro l_l fV4L1N0W6y0mEwgoU0L7K/1


46 calls to 911 in 8 years? I made about that many in two years just driving through Denver on a daily commuting basis, reporting accidents, aggressive drivers, drunk drivers, and so on.
 
2013-06-22 09:39:46 PM  
One less thug dead, no one cares
 
2013-06-22 09:40:21 PM  
Trayvon died so we could make guns illegal

RIP gun laws
 
2013-06-22 09:40:49 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Bravo Two: lantawa: Lionel Mandrake: lantawa: Satan's Girlfriend: Even if he walks though, it's only a matter of time before the NBP hunts him down like dog he is.

What does the National Bank of Pakistan have to do with the price of tea in China?

About as much as a guy with skittles has to do with being a deadly threat.

You're not getting it. Come back to reality, young Lionel Mandrake. Come back.........

So, on top of an admitted clusterfark, you're advocating/condoning vigilante justice and murder? If what Zimmerman did was wrong, how is hoping/condoning the NBP's murder of him any better?

If he was dead, we wouldn't have to have this goddamn trial...


So this condones murder, rather than exactly what the justice system was designed for.
 
2013-06-22 09:41:30 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: Trayvon died so we could make guns illegal

RIP gun laws


2/10

Had me for a second.
 
2013-06-22 09:41:31 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: Uh, no. He walked into his yard and started swinging. Keep spouting off that NBC News faked 911 call horsesh*t.


If you're calling someone a liar. You shouldn't lie yourself.
 
2013-06-22 09:41:56 PM  

bugontherug: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Have you ever heard the term "Objection, calls for speculation?" that's what you are claiming here. If a witness were to testify that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation based on what you say, that's call to speculation and would be objected to by the defense and likely upheld.

Witnesses provide evidence, counselor. Attorneys in closng arguments argue. That is, they use the methods of inference and deduction to prove or disprove a case. An objection to attorney "speculation" based on logical presentation of arguments for inferences from evidence might draw a laugh from the judge, if it didn't anger him.


From the Florida Bar Associations General Rules for Closing Arguments:
Misstatingthe Evidence.Although counsel may argue regarding inferences from evidence in the record, counsel may not create evidence without factual support.

You are asking the prosecution to make an inference that is, at this point, not supported by the evidence. To do so would result in an admonishment from the trial judge.
 
2013-06-22 09:43:32 PM  

ThatDarkFellow: One less thug dead, no one cares


Meanwhile in Chicago, people die by the dozens and no one gives a shiat because its gang violence.

If Zimmerman had been black, no one on fark would give a shiat here either.
 
2013-06-22 09:43:39 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: "We need more ice." ~ Midget passenger aboard the Titanic.


img.fark.net
 
2013-06-22 09:45:05 PM  

Bravo Two: Meanwhile in Chicago, people die by the dozens and no one gives a shiat because its gang violence.


We should care about scum wiping out scum?
 
2013-06-22 09:46:48 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Or do you honestly think that [Alan Dershowitz] holds an anti gun position to appeal to Fox News viewers?


Alan Dershowitz has a repeal-the-2nd-amendment position the way I have a Kate-Upton-do-not-give-me-a-blow-job position.

We have strong principles!
 
2013-06-22 09:46:54 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: bugontherug: There is a doubt Zimmerman started the fight. It is not a reasonable one.

It also doesn't matter one whit under current Florida law if he started the altercation or not. Only whether he, or a reasonable person, felt in danger for their life at the time he pulled the trigger. Evidence will likely be introduced by the defense team that will purport to show that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and was assaulting him just prior to the firearm discharge. Evidence already known to the public supports this claim by Zimmerman.

In short, it doesn't matter who started the fight. The sooner everyone understands this (and the relevant Florida statutes have been copied into these threads since they began) the sooner we can all move on from "who started it."


It may be that the Florida legislature intended to privilege a course of conduct consisting of starting a physical fight with someone while carrying a loaded firearm, then killing your target when he gets the better of you. It may be. But it defies all reason, because it all but legalizes murder, so long as you start a fight and let them get the better of you first.

I can already hear your plaintive cry "but that's not what I said! I just said literally every other single fact in the case is completely irrelevant if Zimmerman reasonably thought he needed to use deadly force!" Yes, that is what you said. And when you said that, you said that the Florida legislature intended to privilege starting a fight with someone while carrying a lethal weapon and then killing them. This is true whether or not you believe that's what happened in this case.

So, it may be you're right. If so, then every member of the Florida legislature who voted for that bill should be dragged kicking and screaming from their beds in the middle of the night, hauled into the middle of the street, and shot without mercy or conscience.1

Or at least they need to rewrite their sh*tty statute, and then get roundly defeated in the next election.

1Hyperbole, used for rhetorical effect only. Author holds no actual intention of dragging or shooting anyone. Not even if they really deserve it.
 
2013-06-22 09:47:28 PM  

Bravo Two: ThatDarkFellow: One less thug dead, no one cares

Meanwhile in Chicago, people die by the dozens and no one gives a shiat because its gang violence.

If Zimmerman had been black, no one on fark would give a shiat here either.


If there were any justice we would just let the gangs war in some sort of thunderdome for control of a special ghetto that is set aside somwhere.
 
2013-06-22 09:47:48 PM  

ThatDarkFellow: One less thug dead, no one cares


This is the attitude I'm talking about. The Z supporters are only happy since a black child was murdered. I wish more more of your kind were willing to own up to it like you have.
 
2013-06-22 09:47:57 PM  
I don't even care who did what at that point. The instant Zimmerman ignored police orders not to follow Martin, his "stand your ground" protections should have been voided.
 
2013-06-22 09:48:23 PM  

Mrtraveler01: If you're calling someone a liar. You shouldn't lie yourself.


Nothing better than confronting a crackpot liberal like yourself with a little truth. All of the NBC News 911 call doctoring, all the bulllsh*t you idiots saturated the mainstream media with, yet that simple truth has risen to the top.

"If I had a son it would look like Trayvon" - Barack Hussein Obama.

Yep, it sure would. A juvenile delinquent with photographs of petty crimes and drugs on his phone, walking through a rich neighborhood to steal something, then picking a fight with a homeowner in his front yard. Yep, sounds like Barry Hussein's son to me.
 
2013-06-22 09:48:31 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: bugontherug: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Have you ever heard the term "Objection, calls for speculation?" that's what you are claiming here. If a witness were to testify that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation based on what you say, that's call to speculation and would be objected to by the defense and likely upheld.

Witnesses provide evidence, counselor. Attorneys in closng arguments argue. That is, they use the methods of inference and deduction to prove or disprove a case. An objection to attorney "speculation" based on logical presentation of arguments for inferences from evidence might draw a laugh from the judge, if it didn't anger him.

From the Florida Bar Associations General Rules for Closing Arguments:
Misstatingthe Evidence.Although counsel may argue regarding inferences from evidence in the record, counsel may not create evidence without factual support.

You are asking the prosecution to make an inference that is, at this point, not supported by the evidence. To do so would result in an admonishment from the trial judge.


But again, we are right back where we started. O'Mara will have the jury instructions include the relevant Florida statute that states that, even as an initial aggressor, Zimmerman had the right to self-defense when he, or a reasonable person, felt in danger for their life. O'Mara will make the inference, supported by the evidence he will present at trial, that Zimmerman was in fear for his life from Martin and therefore justified in applying lethal force. The fact that he may or may not have been the initial aggressor is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

I honestly don't know why so many people lay so much legal weight on this particular caveat of the case. It is utterly meaningless to the self-defense claim.
 
2013-06-22 09:49:41 PM  

lantawa: Lionel Mandrake: lantawa: Satan's Girlfriend: Even if he walks though, it's only a matter of time before the NBP hunts him down like dog he is.

What does the National Bank of Pakistan have to do with the price of tea in China?

About as much as a guy with skittles has to do with being a deadly threat.

You're not getting it. Come back to reality, young Lionel Mandrake. Come back.........


Next up on "Are You Fkn Kidding Me??"


lantawa pleads others to stick to reality!!


(Camera focuses on jubilant audience): ""ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME??"

...brought to you tonight by Ignorant F*cker™ brand Douchebags!
 
2013-06-22 09:50:08 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: A juvenile delinquent with photographs of petty crimes and drugs on his phone, walking through a rich neighborhood to steal something, then picking a fight with a homeowner in his front yard.


Where do you have proof that he fought in Zimmerman's own yard? And you do know that Martin was staying in that same neighborhood right?

WhoopAssWayne: Yep, sounds like Barry Hussein's son to me.


Oh I see, you're just trolling. I thought you were really that stupid for a second.
 
2013-06-22 09:51:25 PM  

Satan's Girlfriend: The Z supporters are only happy since a black child was murdered.


You're only outraged because a black kid was killed. You're a goddamn racist and don't even realize it.
 
2013-06-22 09:51:44 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: bugontherug: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Have you ever heard the term "Objection, calls for speculation?" that's what you are claiming here. If a witness were to testify that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation based on what you say, that's call to speculation and would be objected to by the defense and likely upheld.

Witnesses provide evidence, counselor. Attorneys in closng arguments argue. That is, they use the methods of inference and deduction to prove or disprove a case. An objection to attorney "speculation" based on logical presentation of arguments for inferences from evidence might draw a laugh from the judge, if it didn't anger him.

From the Florida Bar Associations General Rules for Closing Arguments:
Misstatingthe Evidence.Although counsel may argue regarding inferences from evidence in the record, counsel may not create evidence without factual support.

You are asking the prosecution to make an inference that is, at this point, not supported by the evidence. To do so would result in an admonishment from the trial judge.


You're wasting your time. I've been in these threads with Bug and he thinks he knows everything about this case when he blatantly does not. He will defend his ignorance with walls of text though.
 
2013-06-22 09:52:46 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Bravo Two: Meanwhile in Chicago, people die by the dozens and no one gives a shiat because its gang violence.

We should care about scum wiping out scum?


Nice.  Not that there was any doubt about you being an asshole, but even assholes aren't generally so up front about being assholes.

This is the guy who just chastised me for for not doing "my side" any favors....fkn beautiful
 
2013-06-22 09:53:43 PM  

gimmegimme: Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

But I suppose you wouldn't consider it starting a fight if someone did the same thing to you.


No I wouldn't.

Based on the scenario you just presented I believe I could somehow magically manage to not escalate the problem further through my own actions.

This "Martin is utterly blameless under all scenarios" nonsense is getting old.
 
2013-06-22 09:54:10 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Satan's Girlfriend: The Z supporters are only happy since a black child was murdered.

You're only outraged because a black kid was killed. You're a goddamn racist and don't even realize it.


Racism is privileged combined with power. Since I am a minority myself I can not by definition be racist. I can forgive your ignorance as you probably never went to college. Consider this a lesson learned.
 
2013-06-22 09:54:34 PM  

Satan's Girlfriend: ThatDarkFellow: One less thug dead, no one cares

This is the attitude I'm talking about. The Z supporters are only happy since a black child was murdered. I wish more more of your kind were willing to own up to it like you have.


He said thug, you're the one who brought up skin color.
/whites, browns, and yellows can be thugs to
 
2013-06-22 09:55:05 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Nice.  Not that there was any doubt about you being an asshole, but even assholes aren't generally so up front about being assholes.


If you want to waste your time feeling sorry for piece of shiat gang scum shooting each other, knock yourself out.
 
2013-06-22 09:55:37 PM  

Satan's Girlfriend: Popcorn Johnny: Satan's Girlfriend: The Z supporters are only happy since a black child was murdered.

You're only outraged because a black kid was killed. You're a goddamn racist and don't even realize it.

Racism is privileged combined with power. Since I am a minority myself I can not by definition be racist. I can forgive your ignorance as you probably never went to college. Consider this a lesson learned.


Citations?
 
2013-06-22 09:55:55 PM  

Satan's Girlfriend: ThatDarkFellow: One less thug dead, no one cares

This is the attitude I'm talking about. The Z supporters are only happy since a black child was murdered. I wish more more of your kind were willing to own up to it like you have.


Meh, I saw his real photos (not the bullshiat 10 year old photos the media tries to force). He was and would have been continued to be a thug just like any other asshole that dresses like that. I would have said the same thing to a hispanic or white guy, but whatever you want to think about it doesn't change my opinion.
 
2013-06-22 09:56:36 PM  
Satan's Girlfriend: Here are the facts:

Zimmerman claimed to be a neighborhood watch captain when he really wasn't. - not relevant to the incident
Zimmerman called 911 like 50 times in a year. - not relevant to incident
Zimmerman had a history of violence and racist remarks. - not relevant to incident
Zimmerman directly disobeyed a police order to stand down. - not true, he was assaulted on the way back to his vehicle, after breaking pursuit
Zimmerman was armed with a gun. Martin was armed with Skittles and tea. - which is why zimmerman is alive and trayvon is dead
Martin had no bruises on his knuckles, inconsistent with the assault narrative. - this would be a valid point if...
Zimmerman had only minor injuries, and did not even require medical assistance. - Zim's injuries prove an assault took place, the success of the assault is irrelevant
Voice experts have unanimously confirmed the voice screaming for help was Martin. - Who are these experts? Why was this not admissable in court?
Zimmerman has constantly changed his version of events that night. - How so?

I could go on and on. This should be an open and shut case. - No, it shouldn't. Someone died. This should be a trial.
My only concern is Zimmerman walking due to the white privileged system that traditionally rewards his kind of behavior. - He isn't white 
Even if he walks though, it's only a matter of time before the NBP hunts him down like dog he is. - So you're saying that he should be afraid of blacks? Kind of racist, implying that blacks hunt people, but hey, your world. Just Hope they bring more than skittles and tea.
 
2013-06-22 09:56:37 PM  

ChaosStar: He said thug, you're the one who brought up skin color.
/whites, browns, and yellows can be thugs to


Do you think you're fooling anyone with your dog whistle terminology?
 
2013-06-22 09:57:05 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Satan's Girlfriend: Zimmerman claimed to be a neighborhood watch captain when he really wasn't.
Zimmerman called 911 like 50 times in a year.
Zimmerman had a history of violence and racist remarks.
Zimmerman directly disobeyed a police order to stand down.
Zimmerman was armed with a gun. Martin was armed with Skittles and tea.
Martin had no bruises on his knuckles, inconsistent with the assault narrative.
Zimmerman had only minor injuries, and did not even require medical assistance.
Voice experts have unanimously confirmed the voice screaming for help was Martin.
Zimmerman has constantly changed his version of events that night.

I started to respond to your points, but then realized how ignorant of the actual facts you are that it wasn't worth the time. I'm amazed that there can still be people in these threads with your level of ignorance.


Was that a factual statement or your conjecture?  You need to specify.
 
2013-06-22 09:57:26 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Lionel Mandrake: Nice.  Not that there was any doubt about you being an asshole, but even assholes aren't generally so up front about being assholes.

If you want to waste your time feeling sorry for piece of shiat gang scum shooting each other, knock yourself out.


It's much easier to throw a blanket over hundreds of individual lives and righteously call them scum.

Jesus, dude.  You just keep upping the ante...I'll have to reevaluate my estimates of the upper limits of human assholishness.
 
2013-06-22 09:57:28 PM  

ThatDarkFellow: He was and would have been continued to be a thug just like any other asshole that dresses like that.


I know. He was asking to get shot dressing like that amirght?
 
2013-06-22 09:57:45 PM  

Satan's Girlfriend: Popcorn Johnny: Satan's Girlfriend: The Z supporters are only happy since a black child was murdered.

You're only outraged because a black kid was killed. You're a goddamn racist and don't even realize it.

Racism is privileged combined with power. Since I am a minority myself I can not by definition be racist. I can forgive your ignorance as you probably never went to college. Consider this a lesson learned.


This has to be a troll
No one, even on Fark, can be this stupid.
 
2013-06-22 09:57:53 PM  

Satan's Girlfriend: Since I am a minority myself I can not by definition be racist.


I just spit Rum and Coke all over myself.
 
2013-06-22 09:59:05 PM  

bugontherug: The_Six_Fingered_Man: bugontherug: There is a doubt Zimmerman started the fight. It is not a reasonable one.

It also doesn't matter one whit under current Florida law if he started the altercation or not. Only whether he, or a reasonable person, felt in danger for their life at the time he pulled the trigger. Evidence will likely be introduced by the defense team that will purport to show that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and was assaulting him just prior to the firearm discharge. Evidence already known to the public supports this claim by Zimmerman.

In short, it doesn't matter who started the fight. The sooner everyone understands this (and the relevant Florida statutes have been copied into these threads since they began) the sooner we can all move on from "who started it."

It may be that the Florida legislature intended to privilege a course of conduct consisting of starting a physical fight with someone while carrying a loaded firearm, then killing your target when he gets the better of you. It may be. But it defies all reason, because it all but legalizes murder, so long as you start a fight and let them get the better of you first.

I can already hear your plaintive cry "but that's not what I said! I just said literally every other single fact in the case is completely irrelevant if Zimmerman reasonably thought he needed to use deadly force!" Yes, that is what you said. And when you said that, you said that the Florida legislature intended to privilege starting a fight with someone while carrying a lethal weapon and then killing them. This is true whether or not you believe that's what happened in this case.

So, it may be you're right. If so, then every member of the Florida legislature who voted for that bill should be dragged kicking and screaming from their beds in the middle of the night, hauled into the middle of the street, and shot without mercy or conscience.1

Or at least they need to rewrite their sh*tty statute, and then get roundly defeated i ...


It may be that the statute is horsecrap as you say, and it may be that I agree with you on that one particular. The point is effectively moot. The statute applies as written. The State has already testified that they have no evidence that Zimmerman initiated the altercation. Therefore, all we have is the word of Zimmerman that Martin initiated the confrontation and therefore Zimmerman, at all times, retained his right to self-defense. Should the prosecution then present evidence at trial that claims to show Zimmerman as the First Aggressor, they would effectively perjure themselves based on prior testimony, depending on the timeframe that the evidence became known to them. Of course, given the circus surrounding this trial, if the prosecution has such evidence, it likely would have been made public by now.
 
2013-06-22 09:59:18 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: It's much easier to throw a blanket over hundreds of individual lives and righteously call them scum.


Let me guess, society is to blame for them being gang banging pieces of trash, right?
 
2013-06-22 09:59:52 PM  

Mrtraveler01: ThatDarkFellow: He was and would have been continued to be a thug just like any other asshole that dresses like that.

I know. He was asking to get shot dressing like that amirght?


For dressing like that? Probably not. That's not what I said, though, did I? I just used it as a signifier for a thug. But hey, you can make up anything you like if it makes you feel better.
 
2013-06-22 10:00:25 PM  

Satan's Girlfriend: ChaosStar: He said thug, you're the one who brought up skin color.
/whites, browns, and yellows can be thugs to

Do you think you're fooling anyone with your dog whistle terminology?


My "dog whistle terminology"?
Are you saying I'm using words only canines can hear? Or is this some other stupid term people like you use to sound educated?
Fact of the matter is the op said thug, you equated thug to black person not the op, then you called the op racist.
Tell me I'm wrong, please do.
 
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