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(Washington Post)   When the United States says "jump", all countries are required to ask "how high"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 78
    More: Followup, United States, University of Hong Kong, jet aircraft  
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3267 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Jun 2013 at 5:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-22 12:26:28 PM  
It seems to me that by confirming what he has said instead of denying it the government is complicit in leaking the information and as guilty as he is of revealing what he has revealed.
How many whistle blowers talked about area 51? How many times has the government said what they were saying was true?
 
2013-06-22 12:51:29 PM  
Julian Assange got away (relatively) clean.  Snowden has to be caught and punished.  *has* to be caught.  our authoritarian government cannot be seen to fail on this issue.  we have to brutally and viciously punish anyone who leaks information to the press about how things in this country really work.  oh sure, we'll say things like 'national security' and wave around the terrorism trope like it means something...but we all know the score.  we know this is about keeping our illegal actions off book and out of public view.

so we'll hunt this guy down.  we'll give him a sham trial, convict him of treason or something that sounds really good on the evening news...and once he's thrown into a deep dark hole, we'll go back to business as usual.
 
2013-06-22 01:25:40 PM  
If China wants to secure its OWN oil trade routes, it's welcome to do so.
 
2013-06-22 02:43:43 PM  
Oh he's been arrested,and he's likely being wrung out of every bit of classified information he posseses. Either that or he was a Chinese plant in through first place.
 
2013-06-22 02:44:28 PM  
in the first place.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-22 03:34:24 PM  
Didn't they just issue the extradition request?  It's not like the HK police are required to drop everything and run straight out and grab him.
 
2013-06-22 04:42:31 PM  
"Sorry. We can't get him out of the cabin. It's winter and he's... Snowed in."

Thank you. I'll be here all week. Try the shrimp cocktail.
 
2013-06-22 05:15:00 PM  
...or the U.S. will liberate the f*cking s*it out of your country.
 
2013-06-22 05:25:35 PM  
The article also fails to mention that the treaty has in it that no extradition will take place for an offense of a political character. I suppose if Hong Kong doesn't want to extradite him they could use that.
 
2013-06-22 05:54:14 PM  
Meanwhile, plans to protect Snowden appeared to be unfolding. Olafur Sigurvinsson, an Icelandic businessman, told reporters Thursday that he has a private jet ready to take Snowden to Iceland, a potential safe haven named by Snowden in interviews.

Plot thickening detected.

*popcorn*
 
2013-06-22 05:57:09 PM  
I hope he can continue to avoid the govt's goons.
 
2013-06-22 05:58:36 PM  

Weaver95: Julian Assange got away (relatively) clean. Snowden has to be caught and punished.  *has* to be caught.  our authoritarian government cannot be seen to fail on this issue.  we have to brutally and viciously punish anyone who leaks information to the press about how things in this country really work.  oh sure, we'll say things like 'national security' and wave around the terrorism trope like it means something...but we all know the score.  we know this is about keeping our illegal actions off book and out of public view.

so we'll hunt this guy down.  we'll give him a sham trial, convict him of treason or something that sounds really good on the evening news...and once he's thrown into a deep dark hole, we'll go back to business as usual.


Not all that convinced of that.  Assange is just in a nicer box that doesn't have a lock on it.
 
2013-06-22 06:00:12 PM  
It would be funny if he just said he was in HK when in fact he was somewhere else. I mean, how hard is it to find a country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US? Why not go to one of those countries before you out yourself?
 
2013-06-22 06:01:25 PM  

alaric3: It seems to me that by confirming what he has said instead of denying it the government is complicit in leaking the information and as guilty as he is of revealing what he has revealed.


that's just stupid
 
2013-06-22 06:02:04 PM  
And yet when G.W. Bush and his #1 Dick Cheney had international warrants for their arrest, the countries(Haiti, canada) they went too did not arrest them.

/Double standards.
//A hero who showed government spying.
///2 assholes who murdered and tortured hundreds of thousands of people and police protection escorts in Canada.
////Well Haiti is a shiathole full of not much in police or sanitary conditions.
//Harper is a dogsbody to his Republican masters.
 
2013-06-22 06:03:02 PM  
If Snowden had any brains he went straight to the Russian Embassy when Putin offered amnesty.

Either that or the Chinese have him and are playing coy.

/going to Honk Kong was stooopid.
 
2013-06-22 06:03:16 PM  
Maybe the Chinese government is simply negotiating reciprocal rights for extradition of persons disclosing PRC government secrets.
 
2013-06-22 06:03:32 PM  
my guess is that he is in Bejing in a dungeon somewhere having some enhanced interrogation techniques performed on him. then when they're done he will be disappeared
 
2013-06-22 06:03:48 PM  

WorldCitizen: The article also fails to mention that the treaty has in it that no extradition will take place for an offense of a political character. I suppose if Hong Kong doesn't want to extradite him they could use that.


He's charged with exceptions to that rule.
 
2013-06-22 06:04:26 PM  

Rixel: Assange is just in a nicer box that doesn't have a lock on it.


Like you and me?
 
2013-06-22 06:06:29 PM  

Weaver95: Julian Assange got away (relatively) clean.  Snowden has to be caught and punished.  *has* to be caught.  our authoritarian government cannot be seen to fail on this issue.  we have to brutally and viciously punish anyone who leaks information to the press about how things in this country really work.  oh sure, we'll say things like 'national security' and wave around the terrorism trope like it means something...but we all know the score.  we know this is about keeping our illegal actions off book and out of public view.

so we'll hunt this guy down.  we'll give him a sham trial, convict him of treason or something that sounds really good on the evening news...and once he's thrown into a deep dark hole, we'll go back to business as usual.


Assange did not violate any American laws.  He got arrested because he is a sexual fiend and got charged in Sweden.

He made an oath to retain secrets.  That oath is grounded in a federal statue that requires secrecy and punishes the exposure of secrets.  Instead of staying in the USA and "lawyering up", he ran to an foreign country, China, to which the USA is accusing of spying on its infrastructure.

He tied his own rope.
 
2013-06-22 06:07:52 PM  

Ricardo Klement: If China wants to secure its OWN oil trade routes, it's welcome to do so.


They seem to think bicycles are just peachy. Cars are a middle class want but not a need in China.
 
2013-06-22 06:09:12 PM  
He's a useful propaganda tool for the Chinese government.  When he stops being that, he'll be handed over.
 
2013-06-22 06:13:45 PM  

quatchi: Meanwhile, plans to protect Snowden appeared to be unfolding. Olafur Sigurvinsson, an Icelandic businessman, told reporters Thursday that he has a private jet ready to take Snowden to Iceland, a potential safe haven named by Snowden in interviews.


Iceland said early on that Snowden has to  be in Iceland to apply for asylum.  Iceland's last election put conservatives in power.  He's probably better off in Hong Kong than taking a chance on Iceland.
 
2013-06-22 06:17:23 PM  

Hobodeluxe: my guess is that he is in Bejing in a dungeon somewhere having some enhanced interrogation techniques performed on him. then when they're done he will be disappeared


Bingo!
 
2013-06-22 06:21:20 PM  

WorldCitizen: The article also fails to mention that the treaty has in it that no extradition will take place for an offense of a political character. I suppose if Hong Kong doesn't want to extradite him they could use that.


I believe it reads no extradition for a 'political crime'.  Giving a 'political character' exception would be giving foreign politicians (characters) carte blanche to commit apolitical crimes.

Anyway, not sure what all the fuss is over.  Even the most devoted fan of Snowden has to recognize that he broke the law.  Even if you think that he is a hero or that what he did is in the best interest of the US; it's indisputable that he broke the law.

One of the reasons they're not initially charging him with treason or something like that is because that might it be considered borderline political and put the extradition in jeopardy.
 
2013-06-22 06:29:11 PM  

sheep snorter: And yet when G.W. Bush and his #1 Dick Cheney had international warrants for their arrest, the countries(Haiti, canada) they went too did not arrest them.

/Double standards.
//A hero who showed government spying.
///2 assholes who murdered and tortured hundreds of thousands of people and police protection escorts in Canada.
////Well Haiti is a shiathole full of not much in police or sanitary conditions.
//Harper is a dogsbody to his Republican masters.


You say this like Canada had any real choice...face it, they'd wipe us off the map at a moment's notice if it suited them...it's just easier to pillage us with the stroke of pens and the movement of money than it is with the tramp of boots and the pointing of guns.
 
2013-06-22 06:32:49 PM  

Mantour: Weaver95: Julian Assange got away (relatively) clean.  Snowden has to be caught and punished.  *has* to be caught.  our authoritarian government cannot be seen to fail on this issue.  we have to brutally and viciously punish anyone who leaks information to the press about how things in this country really work.  oh sure, we'll say things like 'national security' and wave around the terrorism trope like it means something...but we all know the score.  we know this is about keeping our illegal actions off book and out of public view.

so we'll hunt this guy down.  we'll give him a sham trial, convict him of treason or something that sounds really good on the evening news...and once he's thrown into a deep dark hole, we'll go back to business as usual.

Assange did not violate any American laws.   He got arrested because he is a sexual fiend and got charged in Sweden.

He made an oath to retain secrets.  That oath is grounded in a federal statue that requires secrecy and punishes the exposure of secrets.  Instead of staying in the USA and "lawyering up", he ran to an foreign country, China, to which the USA is accusing of spying on its infrastructure.

He tied his own rope.


Having sex without a condom makes you a sexual fiend?
 
2013-06-22 06:34:52 PM  

Ricardo Klement: If China wants to secure its OWN oil trade routes, it's welcome to do so.


Secure from what? All those Indonesian U-boats?
 
2013-06-22 06:35:58 PM  

dave2198: Having sex without a condom makes you a sexual fiend?


He also had a dating profile on okcupid so that makes him a fiend.

/Has a profile on okcupid
 
2013-06-22 06:37:35 PM  
Just victims of the in-house drive-by
They say jump, you say how high
Just victims of the in-house drive-by
They say jump, you say how high
 
2013-06-22 06:37:41 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: quatchi: Meanwhile, plans to protect Snowden appeared to be unfolding. Olafur Sigurvinsson, an Icelandic businessman, told reporters Thursday that he has a private jet ready to take Snowden to Iceland, a potential safe haven named by Snowden in interviews.

Iceland said early on that Snowden has to  be in Iceland to apply for asylum.  Iceland's last election put conservatives in power.  He's probably better off in Hong Kong than taking a chance on Iceland.


My opinion is that Snowden isn't safe anywhere from being renditioned.

That said, it will interesting to see if HK greenlights the asylum request and lets the jet leave.

If he disappears after last being seen in HK it would look bad on the Chinese government no matter who gets to him first.

That said, letting him go without first squeezing him dry of information will be a mighty temptation to resist considering the ongoing cyberwar.

Hate to be the sucker who wrote that guy's insurance policy.

Hope he gets away safe but I seriously doubt it.
 
2013-06-22 06:52:07 PM  
Question: TFA states Snowden is being charged for "theft". Does anyone know if he took physical documents outside of the location enclosing them to scan, or is it clear it was it all electronic? If all electronic, and assuming he goes to trial and is convicted, does that potentially change/solidify any precedents regarding data-ownership/copyright/etc? Just pondering out loud, any Fark lawyers wanna take a crack?
 
2013-06-22 06:52:35 PM  
He should seek refuge in North Korea.

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-22 06:59:36 PM  

GreenAdder: "Sorry. We can't get him out of the cabin. It's winter and he's... Snowed in."

Thank you. I'll be here all week. Try the shrimp cocktail.


Clap clap.
 
2013-06-22 07:23:04 PM  

Mantour: Weaver95: Julian Assange got away (relatively) clean.  Snowden has to be caught and punished.  *has* to be caught.  our authoritarian government cannot be seen to fail on this issue.  we have to brutally and viciously punish anyone who leaks information to the press about how things in this country really work.  oh sure, we'll say things like 'national security' and wave around the terrorism trope like it means something...but we all know the score.  we know this is about keeping our illegal actions off book and out of public view.

so we'll hunt this guy down.  we'll give him a sham trial, convict him of treason or something that sounds really good on the evening news...and once he's thrown into a deep dark hole, we'll go back to business as usual.

Assange did not violate any American laws.  He got arrested because he is a sexual fiend and got charged in Sweden.

He made an oath to retain secrets.  That oath is grounded in a federal statue that requires secrecy and punishes the exposure of secrets.  Instead of staying in the USA and "lawyering up", he ran to an foreign country, China, to which the USA is accusing of spying on its infrastructure.

He tied his own rope.


No oath can compel a person to conspire to cover up or sanction illegal activity.  When he took the oath he was unaware of the illegal activity he would be expected to participate in.  The fact that he did not trust the US legal system and left to fight from another country is smart. The fact that he picked a country with a complicated extradition system is smarter. The fact that the country he picked has an interest in knowing what he knows is the smartest.
 
2013-06-22 07:31:52 PM  
Fusillade762 - I don't think there are any countries anyone wants to be in that aren't shiatholes. Brazil has no extradition for their citizens written into their constitution. I don't plan on testing that ever.
 
2013-06-22 07:33:56 PM  

chumboobler: The fact that he did not trust the US legal system and left to fight from another country is smart. The fact that he picked a country with a complicated extradition system is smarter. The fact that the country he picked has an interest in knowing what he knows is the smartest.


This is also why he's probably safer there than in Iceland. If the US wants him bad enough, Iceland couldn't stop them from coming in and getting them. The world might be outraged but would do absolutely nothing about it. The US marching into Chinese territory, even a semi-autonomous area like Hong Kong, would be a whole different story. He's obviously given his location a lot of thought. Plus if you're going to be stuck someplace for the rest of your life, Hong Kong isn't a bad place. Iceland is nice but I imagine it'd get boring rather quickly. An assassination made to look like an accident is likely the US's only real move if he stays in Hong Kong.
 
2013-06-22 08:11:11 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Ricardo Klement: If China wants to secure its OWN oil trade routes, it's welcome to do so.

They seem to think bicycles are just peachy. Cars are a middle class want but not a need in China.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_consumption
 
2013-06-22 08:12:47 PM  

Churchill2004: Ricardo Klement: If China wants to secure its OWN oil trade routes, it's welcome to do so.

Secure from what? All those Indonesian U-boats?


And here I'm told we do all kinds of things for oil.
 
2013-06-22 08:23:38 PM  

Argonreality: Question: TFA states Snowden is being charged for "theft". Does anyone know if he took physical documents outside of the location enclosing them to scan, or is it clear it was it all electronic? If all electronic, and assuming he goes to trial and is convicted, does that potentially change/solidify any precedents regarding data-ownership/copyright/etc? Just pondering out loud, any Fark lawyers wanna take a crack?


While the specifics vary by jurisdiction, the elements of theft usually include taking the property of another without permission and thereby deprive the lawful owner of possession. That's why it is inaccurate to refer to copyright infringement, no matter how egregious, as theft.
 
2013-06-22 08:26:43 PM  
Hope he doesn't slip and fall on a bar of soap. Accidents happen. Thankfully, there is body wash.
 
2013-06-22 08:27:17 PM  
As in "how high are you?"  And "What have you been smoking?"
 
2013-06-22 08:49:00 PM  

Ricardo Klement: If China wants to secure its OWN oil trade routes, it's welcome to do so.


No they're not.  In fact the U.S. has been vocal in opposing their ability to do so.
 
2013-06-22 08:59:03 PM  
Wow, where did all these idiots come from?  He's being tortured for information?  Or, he was always a Chinese spy?  Are you all stupid, or just astroturf?

He's in a Hong Kong hotel.

Hong Kong won't jump to hand him over because his crime is political.

Pressure from Beijing could weigh more than their law, sure.  But that kind of pressure from Beijing would piss off Hong Kongers., who all value their autonomy and rule of law.

Valuing rule of law (in contrast to the mainland) is kind of a big deal there.
 
2013-06-22 08:59:15 PM  
China is waiting for the flip, hand over job tip extra.
 
2013-06-22 09:03:08 PM  

sithon: Oh he's been arrested,and he's likely being wrung out of every bit of classified information he posseses. Either that or he was a Chinese plant in through first place.


keytronic: the Chinese have him


SwiftFox: the Chinese government


:-|
 
2013-06-22 09:08:07 PM  

keytronic: If Snowden had any brains he went straight to the Russian Embassy when Putin offered amnesty.

Either that or the Chinese have him and are playing coy.

/going to Honk Kong was stooopid.


Going to Russia is never a smart idea when you're essentially a political target.

And Hong Kong isn't China,  as the Chinese have been smart not to mess with it too much since they took it over.
 
2013-06-22 09:13:59 PM  

dave2198: Mantour: Weaver95: Julian Assange got away (relatively) clean.  Snowden has to be caught and punished.  *has* to be caught.  our authoritarian government cannot be seen to fail on this issue.  we have to brutally and viciously punish anyone who leaks information to the press about how things in this country really work.  oh sure, we'll say things like 'national security' and wave around the terrorism trope like it means something...but we all know the score.  we know this is about keeping our illegal actions off book and out of public view.

so we'll hunt this guy down.  we'll give him a sham trial, convict him of treason or something that sounds really good on the evening news...and once he's thrown into a deep dark hole, we'll go back to business as usual.

Assange did not violate any American laws.   He got arrested because he is a sexual fiend and got charged in Sweden.

He made an oath to retain secrets.  That oath is grounded in a federal statue that requires secrecy and punishes the exposure of secrets.  Instead of staying in the USA and "lawyering up", he ran to an foreign country, China, to which the USA is accusing of spying on its infrastructure.

He tied his own rope.

Having sex without a condom makes you a sexual fiend?


Well, in Sweden, breaking a condom during coitus is..
 
2013-06-22 10:06:23 PM  
Increasingly, countries are saying, 'bite me.'
 
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