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(Huffington Post)   Goodwill in hot water for not showing much goodwill to disabled employees, pay some as little as $0.22 an hour   ( huffingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, Special Wage Certificate Program, deferred compensation, document review, Department of Labor, Southern Baptist Convention  
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1879 clicks; posted to Business » on 22 Jun 2013 at 12:51 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-22 11:02:25 AM  
I have no idea what a severely disabled person's labor is worth,  but...

www.rottenecards.com
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-22 11:29:44 AM  
How does someone live on less than $500/yr?
 
2013-06-22 12:20:54 PM  
Goodwill is such a scam that it's almost difficult to believe that their business model is legal.
 
2013-06-22 12:57:02 PM  
This was discussed on reddit. put the pitchfork away. Goodwill gives them a place to work and feel good about themselves
that few other work place can. They're not used as slave labor. Generally the disabled there are happy there.
 
2013-06-22 01:31:23 PM  
That's just retarded.
 
2013-06-22 01:44:50 PM  

smeag0l: This was discussed on reddit. put the pitchfork away. Goodwill gives them a place to work and feel good about themselves
that few other work place can. They're not used as slave labor. Generally the disabled there are happy there.


I thought I smelled this.

Once or twice I've done some things for the church. They've handed me ten bucks for 8 hours worth of work. Technically, yeah, it's less than minimum wage, but I had volunteered and wasn't expecting to get any money. Someone found out, and handed me the money for gas.

/please don't fark this up, guys. If you take away the cash economy, poor people really won't have any way to work.
 
2013-06-22 01:48:30 PM  

smeag0l: This was discussed on reddit. put the pitchfork away. Goodwill gives them a place to work and feel good about themselves
that few other work place can. They're not used as slave labor. Generally the disabled there are happy there.


When I was 15 or 16, I had a summer job with a place that did something similar.  What it amounted to was that it gave the people that "worked" there an opportunity to socialize with others while building self esteem and a sense of self worth.  If they didn't have this "job" to go to, they would have essentially been stuck in a house under the care of relatives their entire lives or put in some other type of "home" where they were entirely dependent on someone else.

None of them that I recall were fully independent and living by themselves.  They all still lived with relatives. They were essentially adults with the mentality, attention span, and temperament of a 6 to 8 year old.

/and no, they didn't make much money at all
 
2013-06-22 01:57:05 PM  

smeag0l: This was discussed on reddit. put the pitchfork away. Goodwill gives them a place to work and feel good about themselves
that few other work place can. They're not used as slave labor. Generally the disabled there are happy there.


Which is farking terrible if you're trying to support yourself with a disability and don't have the state or family to fall back on. It may make sense to offer semi-daycare labor for mentally disabled people but the rest are just getting farked.
 
2013-06-22 02:00:26 PM  
 
2013-06-22 02:13:19 PM  
Why are you guys complaining?

Isn't paying a shiatty wage the Only True Real American Way according to the Blessed Supply Side Jesus??
 
2013-06-22 02:18:54 PM  
So?  I've never received a job from a poor person anyway.
 
2013-06-22 02:30:15 PM  
and you silly rabbits thought slavery was over.   tisk, tisk.


ain't Freedom great!
 
2013-06-22 02:30:26 PM  
This is news?  Goodwill and a large number of charities that bring in disabled or MR folks pay them prison wages.  On the other hand, a lot of these charities also give them room and board, provide busing, etc.  I do think it's unfair that they aren't getting more money, but they do receive a lot in terms of additional support.

\Virginia has numerous contracts with Industries for the Blind
 
2013-06-22 02:31:09 PM  

vpb: How does someone live on less than $500/yr?



they don't live.  they exist.  somewhat like a potted plant exists.
 
2013-06-22 02:33:24 PM  

Kittypie070: Why are you guys complaining?

Isn't paying a shiatty wage the Only True Real American Way according to the Blessed Supply Side Jesus??



it is now, thanks to our new and improved CONgress owned by big business and the wealthy (who also happen to own our 'news', except the Internet, which drives them bonkers.   they still haven't figured out a way to control/own this Internet thing.

i have confidence they'll succeed one day.

after all, they have to protect Freedom and Liberty.
 
2013-06-22 02:49:14 PM  
This is because they were LEGALLY allowed to pay under minimum wage.

If you'll recall, a specific group of politicians wanted to remove a minimum wage requirement for everyone.

Clearly this is a good idea.

Note: Article doesn't say if they were actually paid so low or if a person was on salary working a ton of hours and was "calculated" to be $0.22 when divided over those hours. That's a whole other horrible issue too if that's the case.
 
2013-06-22 02:53:57 PM  
I'll also add that if this is a volunteer sort of thing and they aren't doing cheap labor instead, then this is a non issue.

Hospitals have tons of volunteer workers that aren't paid, but do useful jobs. Generally these are older folks that just want to get out of the house as well as just genuinely help people.
 
2013-06-22 02:57:12 PM  

ThunderPelvis: Goodwill is such a scam that it's almost difficult to believe that their business model is legal.


This. I don't know whether it's new management or something, but goodwill really took a nosedive over the course of the last decade. The prices are almost near what something new would cost (with the exception of a few "true to the spirit" stores) and if we're honest - half the stores are a mess, they're not training the folks that well either.
 
2013-06-22 02:58:47 PM  

SithLord: So?  I've never received a job from a poor person anyway.


OK, call Mitt Romney to come fix your toilet.

His wealth should qualify him excellently for a simple plumbing job.
 
2013-06-22 02:58:55 PM  
A lot of these "contracts" that supply the work these "employees" do are charitable gifts in themselves.  Unless there really is a significant niche in installing batteries in remotes, or other impossibly simple repetitive assemblies.

Is this story a a hit piece from the US Chamber of Commerce?  Damn liberals want us to pay able bodied teenagers and immigrants the legal minimum wage?  fark that, we'll take down Goodwill Industries!
 
2013-06-22 03:53:17 PM  

Somaticasual: ThunderPelvis: Goodwill is such a scam that it's almost difficult to believe that their business model is legal.

This. I don't know whether it's new management or something, but goodwill really took a nosedive over the course of the last decade. The prices are almost near what something new would cost (with the exception of a few "true to the spirit" stores) and if we're honest - half the stores are a mess, they're not training the folks that well either.


I've noticed they're keeping designer items like purses, shoes, etc. locked away in a display box and charging premium prices.

I remember in high school I'd be searching for these things, including "emo" gear to sell on ebay. Can't do that anymore.
 
2013-06-22 04:42:29 PM  
Maybe I'm ignorant and unimaginative, but I'm having a hard time picturing what the executives are doing that justifies a 6 figure salary. There's a store, people give you stuff you sell it, pay the employees and bills and give the rest to charity. Except most of gw's charity seem to be "training" programs for cashiers. Seriously, wtf, it takes like an hour to teach someone with an IQ of 80 to use a cash register. Pretty sure they covered it in second grade. Its bullshiat, the net goes to pay glad handing executives that are as useful as tits on a boar.
This seems to be the general trend for charities, whatever they had done in the past, all it takes is one greedy bullshiat artist to take control of the organization to convert it to what is for all intents and purposes a for profit.
 
2013-06-22 04:46:25 PM  
When I was 15 I got my first summer job working at a Salvation Army thrift store. It paid minimum wage but we were allowed to help ourselves to some of the merchandise for free.  Too bad I didn't know anything about antiques or collectibles, there probably was some valuable stuff sitting around the donation sorting room.
 
2013-06-22 05:23:36 PM  

Kittypie070: Why are you guys complaining?

Isn't paying a shiatty wage the Only True Real American Way according to the Blessed Supply Side Jesus??


Since the American Dream for these guys is landing an $8/hr job at Taco Bell, I have to agree.
 
2013-06-22 05:39:08 PM  

moothemagiccow: Kittypie070: Why are you guys complaining?

Isn't paying a shiatty wage the Only True Real American Way according to the Blessed Supply Side Jesus??


Since the American Dream for these guys is landing an $8/hr job at Taco Bell, I have to agree.


Too bad you didn't figure out that was a hook with a worm on it.

Boy, you cons will bite any weaksauce.
 
2013-06-22 07:50:25 PM  

Fantasta Potamus: Note: Article doesn't say if they were actually paid so low or if a person was on salary working a ton of hours and was "calculated" to be $0.22 when divided over those hours. That's a whole other horrible issue too if that's the case.


Hardly matters at that level.  100 hours a week would still only be $22.  There's no way to justify that.  What the fark kind of "salary" could that possibly be?
 
2013-06-22 09:53:11 PM  

Slappajo: smeag0l: This was discussed on reddit. put the pitchfork away. Goodwill gives them a place to work and feel good about themselves
that few other work place can. They're not used as slave labor. Generally the disabled there are happy there.

When I was 15 or 16, I had a summer job with a place that did something similar.  What it amounted to was that it gave the people that "worked" there an opportunity to socialize with others while building self esteem and a sense of self worth.  If they didn't have this "job" to go to, they would have essentially been stuck in a house under the care of relatives their entire lives or put in some other type of "home" where they were entirely dependent on someone else.

None of them that I recall were fully independent and living by themselves.  They all still lived with relatives. They were essentially adults with the mentality, attention span, and temperament of a 6 to 8 year old.

/and no, they didn't make much money at all


Here's the list from the U.S. DOL. They're mainly service and rehab centers for mentally disabled people who want to work. They're not very good at it and nobody's making money off them, but they're not curled up in a fetal position all day.

The one in our area -- they grow plants in greenhouses and sell them in the spring.
 
2013-06-22 09:59:14 PM  

smeag0l: This was discussed on reddit. put the pitchfork away. Goodwill gives them a place to work and feel good about themselves
that few other work place can. They're not used as slave labor. Generally the disabled there are happy there.


Company uses 80-year-old law correctly, complies with Department of Labor inspections, ensures a proper working environment, adds extra benefits such as transportation & community support, and is one of the few companies willing to hire severely disabled workers...

This is (p)outrageous!


Silly manufactured controversy.
 
2013-06-22 10:01:21 PM  
What everybody seems to be forgetting is they aren't using this wage to live. If you're disabled enough to be paid 22 cents an hour, then you probably qualify for Social Security for Disability, and you and/or your caregiver get a check from the government each month.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pgm/disability.htm
 
2013-06-22 10:04:31 PM  
 
2013-06-22 10:05:00 PM  
While I think such low wages ought to be criminal, disabled people receiving Social Security benefits have severe limits on the income they can earn before their benefits are cut (around $3000/year, IIRC). If it were structured in a way that eases it out, like you lose $1 in benefits for every $4 or $10 that you earn, then you build an incentive to demand higher pay, but I don't think it works like that.
 
2013-06-22 10:40:46 PM  

zimbach: While I think such low wages ought to be criminal, disabled people receiving Social Security benefits have severe limits on the income they can earn before their benefits are cut (around $3000/year, IIRC). If it were structured in a way that eases it out, like you lose $1 in benefits for every $4 or $10 that you earn, then you build an incentive to demand higher pay, but I don't think it works like that.


From what I recall it's a 1-1 ratio (Los Angeles, and I was applying for a mix of state, county and city stuff), and that's just pure dollar bennies. That doesn't count that you may lose health insurance and food stamps as well if your income goes up too much.

So yeah. Stay "poor" and get what you need to at least keep afloat and your kids healthy, or work minimum full-time and lose everything AND take a cut in pay.

/loves the "Well, it shouldn't be that way" response. That's great. What are you doing to fix it?
 
2013-06-22 10:46:10 PM  

zimbach: While I think such low wages ought to be criminal, disabled people receiving Social Security benefits have severe limits on the income they can earn before their benefits are cut (around $3000/year, IIRC). If it were structured in a way that eases it out, like you lose $1 in benefits for every $4 or $10 that you earn, then you build an incentive to demand higher pay, but I don't think it works like that.


That's pretty much it.  It's better to have these people out and doing something all day than having them forced to sit at home because they're collecting money from the government.

The funny thing is that around here (Philadelphia) most of the people who work at the Goodwill stores are doing some sort of welfare-to-work program, and as soon as they show some level of competency at their job they get booted up the ladder.
 
2013-06-22 10:52:02 PM  

cheap_thoughts: Somaticasual: ThunderPelvis: Goodwill is such a scam that it's almost difficult to believe that their business model is legal.

This. I don't know whether it's new management or something, but goodwill really took a nosedive over the course of the last decade. The prices are almost near what something new would cost (with the exception of a few "true to the spirit" stores) and if we're honest - half the stores are a mess, they're not training the folks that well either.

I've noticed they're keeping designer items like purses, shoes, etc. locked away in a display box and charging premium prices.

I remember in high school I'd be searching for these things, including "emo" gear to sell on ebay. Can't do that anymore.


I remember back when I was in college, thrift stores were the place to go for cheap furniture and funky shirts. In the last 15 years, a lot of people seem to have caught on. With the combination of increased demand, greedy executives and potentially huge profit margins, I'm not all that surprised.

Plus it's a source of hipster fashion - you can wear your granddad's clothes and look incredible, or buy this big-ass coat from that thrift shop down the road...
 
2013-06-22 11:08:51 PM  

vpb: How does someone live on less than $500/yr?


Well, thats only allowed to happen if someone is disabled and it would impact any job performance.

However, for 22c an hour, what as her job? Drooling on the customers as they walked in the door?
 
2013-06-22 11:21:56 PM  

Slappajo: smeag0l: This was discussed on reddit. put the pitchfork away. Goodwill gives them a place to work and feel good about themselves
that few other work place can. They're not used as slave labor. Generally the disabled there are happy there.

When I was 15 or 16, I had a summer job with a place that did something similar.  What it amounted to was that it gave the people that "worked" there an opportunity to socialize with others while building self esteem and a sense of self worth.  If they didn't have this "job" to go to, they would have essentially been stuck in a house under the care of relatives their entire lives or put in some other type of "home" where they were entirely dependent on someone else.

None of them that I recall were fully independent and living by themselves.  They all still lived with relatives. They were essentially adults with the mentality, attention span, and temperament of a 6 to 8 year old.

/and no, they didn't make much money at all


That's an argument for expanded services for the mentally ill, not a justification for CEOs to draw six-figure salaries by paying wages even robber barons would blush at.
 
2013-06-22 11:27:47 PM  

FormlessOne: illy manufactured controversy.


just because what they're doing is legal doesn't mean it's right or justifiable. The fact you have places whining they shouldn't have to pay even minimum wage tells you everything you need to know about what they really think about the disabled.
 
2013-06-22 11:37:29 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: zimbach: While I think such low wages ought to be criminal, disabled people receiving Social Security benefits have severe limits on the income they can earn before their benefits are cut (around $3000/year, IIRC). If it were structured in a way that eases it out, like you lose $1 in benefits for every $4 or $10 that you earn, then you build an incentive to demand higher pay, but I don't think it works like that.

That's pretty much it.  It's better to have these people out and doing something all day than having them forced to sit at home because they're collecting money from the government.



And if Goodwill was expected to pay them any more than the functional equivalent of nothing, they wouldn't be hiring them. These are not particularly productive employees. Somebody upthread used the term daycare, which seems pretty reasonable. Goodwill is giving people who are unable to have any sort of real productive role in society something to do and a way to feel useful. Oh noes.
 
2013-06-22 11:50:50 PM  

pueblonative: Slappajo: smeag0l: This was discussed on reddit. put the pitchfork away. Goodwill gives them a place to work and feel good about themselves
that few other work place can. They're not used as slave labor. Generally the disabled there are happy there.

When I was 15 or 16, I had a summer job with a place that did something similar.  What it amounted to was that it gave the people that "worked" there an opportunity to socialize with others while building self esteem and a sense of self worth.  If they didn't have this "job" to go to, they would have essentially been stuck in a house under the care of relatives their entire lives or put in some other type of "home" where they were entirely dependent on someone else.

None of them that I recall were fully independent and living by themselves.  They all still lived with relatives. They were essentially adults with the mentality, attention span, and temperament of a 6 to 8 year old.

/and no, they didn't make much money at all

That's an argument for expanded services for the mentally ill, not a justification for CEOs to draw six-figure salaries by paying wages even robber barons would blush at.


You do know that a six figure salary is still middle class, right? In fact in some areas of the country you need 6 figure incomes to live a middle class lifestyle. If you earn $40,000 in NYC you can qualify for subsidized housing, for example. I knew a couple people doing that. In Indiana that would put you in the top quarter of wage earners in some counties.

Anyone managing multiple locations should be making at least 100k. As a manager of a crappy mall store in the 90s I made half that. Add in inflation and such and I have no problem with large nonprofits such as Goodwill paying executives six figure salaries. They are overseeing a very large, complex organization.
 
2013-06-23 12:12:03 AM  
What I want to know is how they make any money in the first place. The majority of the store is rack after rack of clothes most homeless people would turn down. Aside from that there's usually a wall full of glassware and dishes that looks like they came out of the houses of every grandmother that died in the last 5 years. Everything from lime green coffee cups to worn out tupperware.

Then there's a shelf full of VHS tapes and one scratched DVD of a National Geographic special on Egypt. Next to that there's a box of paperback books with the front covers torn off and in the back corner is a shelf full of used shoes. (Who the hell buys used shoes?) On the off chance they do have something worthwhile it's usually up by the register and they want damn near retail for it.

I've gotten some pretty good buys at other thrift stores but I have never seen anything worth a damn at a Goodwill.
 
2013-06-23 12:12:46 AM  

WhyteRaven74: FormlessOne: illy manufactured controversy.

just because what they're doing is legal doesn't mean it's right or justifiable. The fact you have places whining they shouldn't have to pay even minimum wage tells you everything you need to know about what they really think about the disabled.


As the stepfather of a developmentally disabled son, I respectfully disagree with your assessment.
 
2013-06-23 03:28:53 AM  
I would be ok with this if the.executives didn't make 6 figures. An additional .22 / hr above disability and a job to be proud of means a lot. Yet, when you have some suit at the top raking in a hefty paycheck it might be time to reduce the wage gap a bit.
 
2013-06-23 06:50:23 AM  

Kittypie070: moothemagiccow: Kittypie070: Why are you guys complaining?

Isn't paying a shiatty wage the Only True Real American Way according to the Blessed Supply Side Jesus??

Since the American Dream for these guys is landing an $8/hr job at Taco Bell, I have to agree.

Too bad you didn't figure out that was a hook with a worm on it.

Boy, you cons will bite any weaksauce.


Wanting disabled people to get minimum wage is conservative now? I'll have to update my chart.
 
2013-06-23 06:53:30 AM  

FormlessOne: WhyteRaven74: FormlessOne: illy manufactured controversy.

just because what they're doing is legal doesn't mean it's right or justifiable. The fact you have places whining they shouldn't have to pay even minimum wage tells you everything you need to know about what they really think about the disabled.

As the stepfather of a developmentally disabled son, I respectfully disagree with your assessment.


Is it right that your kid has his paltry pay docked as a result of a periodic test, independent of actual performance?
 
2013-06-23 06:58:57 AM  

SumoJeb: I would be ok with this if the.executives didn't make 6 figures. An additional .22 / hr above disability and a job to be proud of means a lot. Yet, when you have some suit at the top raking in a hefty paycheck it might be time to reduce the wage gap a bit.


Why?  As Goodwill points out, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Seems to me the job of running an organization staffed by disabled workers is a lot harder than running the same organization staffed by able workers.  Most CEOs don't have to worry about getting workers to and from work, to cite just one thing.

If a disabled worker can hang on a rack only 10% of the clothing that an able person can per hour, why should they get the same hourly wage?  Why shouldn't both get housing, food, transportation, and health care subsidies, too?

When you compare similar things, life makes more sense.
 
2013-06-23 07:01:01 AM  

moothemagiccow: FormlessOne: WhyteRaven74: FormlessOne: illy manufactured controversy.

just because what they're doing is legal doesn't mean it's right or justifiable. The fact you have places whining they shouldn't have to pay even minimum wage tells you everything you need to know about what they really think about the disabled.

As the stepfather of a developmentally disabled son, I respectfully disagree with your assessment.

Is it right that your kid has his paltry pay docked as a result of a periodic test, independent of actual performance?


The test measures actual performance.
 
2013-06-23 07:17:55 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: moothemagiccow: FormlessOne: WhyteRaven74: FormlessOne: illy manufactured controversy.

just because what they're doing is legal doesn't mean it's right or justifiable. The fact you have places whining they shouldn't have to pay even minimum wage tells you everything you need to know about what they really think about the disabled.

As the stepfather of a developmentally disabled son, I respectfully disagree with your assessment.

Is it right that your kid has his paltry pay docked as a result of a periodic test, independent of actual performance?

The test measures actual performance.


Actual performance of the test, not past performance at the job. When your performance is evaluated at your job, do they give you a test? A sample task that's timed, although the rest of your work isn't? Have you ever had your pay reduced as a result of a performance evaluation? And don't snark at me that getting fired is a pay reduction.

The people in the article I posted above claim the tests are variable in difficulty, whether employers want to cut their pay or not. They lost enough in earnings to the point where the cost of getting to work wasn't worth it. At some point, this says that these people are worthless and we should throw them onto the death cart, and if that's the case, I don't see why we feel the need to fark around.
 
2013-06-23 07:46:21 AM  

moothemagiccow: BarkingUnicorn: moothemagiccow: FormlessOne: WhyteRaven74: FormlessOne: illy manufactured controversy.

just because what they're doing is legal doesn't mean it's right or justifiable. The fact you have places whining they shouldn't have to pay even minimum wage tells you everything you need to know about what they really think about the disabled.

As the stepfather of a developmentally disabled son, I respectfully disagree with your assessment.

Is it right that your kid has his paltry pay docked as a result of a periodic test, independent of actual performance?

The test measures actual performance.

Actual performance of the test, not past performance at the job. When your performance is evaluated at your job, do they give you a test? A sample task that's timed, although the rest of your work isn't? Have you ever had your pay reduced as a result of a performance evaluation? And don't snark at me that getting fired is a pay reduction.

The people in the article I posted above claim the tests are variable in difficulty, whether employers want to cut their pay or not. They lost enough in earnings to the point where the cost of getting to work wasn't worth it. At some point, this says that these people are worthless and we should throw them onto the death cart, and if that's the case, I don't see why we feel the need to fark around.


I suppose we could just pay them piecework rates; that would eliminate all of your objections.

Pay does not say anything about a person's worth.  It speaks only of the worth of a person's work product to the person who pays.
 
2013-06-23 08:11:35 AM  
Oh, look, the test IS designed for piecework pay!

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/14c/18c4.htm

The DoL protocol calls for a "standard setter," an able, high-performing worker in  the same workplace doing the same job.  Naturally, if his productivity increases the pay of everyone whose productivity is compared to his will  decrease, even if the others' productivity remains constant.  So blame the overachievers; ostracize and drive them out.  In short, unionize.

One disabled person in your article complains that the test's difficulty varies depending on whether "they want your wage to go up or down." Why would an exploitative employer ever want your wages to go up?  He can't seem to accept that his ability may vary up and down over time. His wife, whose job entails standing and bending while hanging clothes, can't understand why her test performance and pay decreased when she  returned to work from KNEE SURGERY!
 
2013-06-23 08:28:48 AM  

Peki: zimbach: While I think such low wages ought to be criminal, disabled people receiving Social Security benefits have severe limits on the income they can earn before their benefits are cut (around $3000/year, IIRC). If it were structured in a way that eases it out, like you lose $1 in benefits for every $4 or $10 that you earn, then you build an incentive to demand higher pay, but I don't think it works like that.

From what I recall it's a 1-1 ratio (Los Angeles, and I was applying for a mix of state, county and city stuff), and that's just pure dollar bennies. That doesn't count that you may lose health insurance and food stamps as well if your income goes up too much.

So yeah. Stay "poor" and get what you need to at least keep afloat and your kids healthy, or work minimum full-time and lose everything AND take a cut in pay.

/loves the "Well, it shouldn't be that way" response. That's great. What are you doing to fix it?


One solution is to give everyone free food, shelter, transportation, medical care, and toys from the day they're born.  (In fact, that's exactly what we do for our newborns.)  Now, let's  not take any of that away as they become more capable of supporting themselves, as evidenced by their incomes.

Or we can just keep doing what all sane parents do with their children:  wean them and stop supporting  them when they're able to support themselves.
 
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