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(KATU)   "Concerned Citizen" arrested after making traffic stop. Evidently you need to be a cop of something...who knew?   (katu.com) divider line 105
    More: Dumbass, traffic stops, Oregon State Police, impersonating a police officer, KATU News, semiautomatic pistols  
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5229 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jun 2013 at 1:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-22 11:25:41 AM
While there have been times that i might have wanted to slap a few drivers upside their stupid texting heads, I mean, what the hell dude?

/if you wannabe a cop
//go become a cop
///earn it
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-22 11:34:54 AM
What if you are a cop of cell-phones?  That would be something.
 
2013-06-22 11:43:56 AM
img.fark.net

Wanted for questioning.
 
2013-06-22 11:48:17 AM
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-22 01:51:02 PM
I think its pretty common knowledge that you're not allowed to have red and/or blue flashing lights.  Yellow is for non-cop/fireman/ambulance trucks.  Yellow lights anyone can have.
 
2013-06-22 01:52:52 PM
That motherfu(ker was up to no good.

Bet she was attractive.
 
2013-06-22 01:53:15 PM

I_Don't_Want_FOP: [img.fark.net image 195x259]

Wanted for questioning.


Done in 3.
 
2013-06-22 01:54:03 PM
"He said his emergency lights are for his job as a mechanic and he's never pulled anyone over before.  "

Ok, does anyone want to take a guess at a legitimate reason that he would need a light bar as a mechanic? I've been scratching my head for a few minutes & can't come up with one.

The police ought to look into unsolved rapes or even murders in the area & see if he fits in there somewhere.  I sincerely doubt that this was the first time that he's pulled anyone over.
 
2013-06-22 01:54:08 PM
a cop of coffee?

a cop of fine repute?

don't leave us hanging, subby
 
2013-06-22 01:55:09 PM
"He said his emergency lights are for his job as a mechanic "

Well, now it all makes sense!
 
2013-06-22 01:55:10 PM
I thought that varied by state, but yeah. Impersonating a cop is frowned upon.
 
2013-06-22 01:55:17 PM
I wanna be a cop of feel.
 
2013-06-22 01:55:35 PM

Recoil Therapy: "He said his emergency lights are for his job as a mechanic and he's never pulled anyone over before.  "

Ok, does anyone want to take a guess at a legitimate reason that he would need a light bar as a mechanic? I've been scratching my head for a few minutes & can't come up with one.

The police ought to look into unsolved rapes or even murders in the area & see if he fits in there somewhere.  I sincerely doubt that this was the first time that he's pulled anyone over.



My thoughts exactly.
 
2013-06-22 01:55:47 PM
I hope they make an example of this dipshiat.
 
2013-06-22 01:56:34 PM

AndreMA: I thought that varied by state, but yeah. Impersonating a cop is frowned upon.


Permitted light colors; I meant to quote:

downstairs: I think its pretty common knowledge that you're not allowed to have red and/or blue flashing lights.  Yellow is for non-cop/fireman/ambulance trucks.  Yellow lights anyone can have.

 
2013-06-22 01:56:55 PM

downstairs: I think its pretty common knowledge that you're not allowed to have red and/or blue flashing lights.  Yellow is for non-cop/fireman/ambulance trucks.  Yellow lights anyone can have.


You're a dipshiat if you have any kind of lights on your car that aren't factory.
 
2013-06-22 01:56:56 PM
DON'T PRETEND TO BE THE POLICE.

DON'T PRETEND TO BE THE POLICE.

DON'T PRETEND TO BE THE POLICE.


How many times does this need to be repeated. Along with:

A HANDGUN CARRY PERMIT DOES NOT MAKE YOU THE POLICE.

/if George Zimmerman had listened to these, we wouldn't have this fiasco now.
 
2013-06-22 01:57:31 PM
dipshiat
 
2013-06-22 01:58:15 PM
Hispanic day laborer trying to "traffic stop" a white woman.

Smart move there, compadre...
 
2013-06-22 01:58:52 PM

MNguy: You're a dipshiat if you have any kind of lights on your car that aren't factory.


Tow truck operators are dipshiats?

Well you might have a point... at least the ones that contract with police for impounding.
 
2013-06-22 01:59:05 PM
www.therightplanet.com
"Chill out, you guys.  He's just part of the neighborhood watch."
 
2013-06-22 02:00:17 PM

MNguy: You're a dipshiat if you have any kind of lights on your car that aren't factory.


You do know that Yellow Lights are required by federal law for any non-emergency vehicle that creates a traffic control zone on a road which is governed or maintained by federal funds. In addition, volunteer Firefighers, EMTs, and First Responders often respond to stations, and to calls which don't require apparatus, from their houses or jobs (70% of the American fire service is made up of volunteers).

In our state, if you're not constabulary (only two counties have it, now) and you have blue lights on your personal vehicle, you deserve to be arrested.

downstairs: Yellow is for non-cop/fireman/ambulance trucks.


Yellow is for non-emergency vehicles. Depending on the jurisdiction, red or blue lights. In tennessee, it's red/clear for volunteers that aren't police/constabulary. New York is weird. Red lights are law enforcement, and blue lights are volunteers there.
 
2013-06-22 02:02:34 PM
Another foiled Rapey McRapekins.
He'll try it again, guarantee it. Maybe differently now he's in the news for this method but he'll continue harassing women.
 
2013-06-22 02:04:51 PM

YoOjo: Another foiled Rapey McRapekins.
He'll try it again, guarantee it. Maybe differently now he's in the news for this method but he'll continue harassing women.


Can I just state for all the Farkers and Farkettes out there - DO NOT PULL OVER FOR SOMEONE WITH A GREEN, AMBER, OR CLEAR LIGHT in their dashboard, even if they have a siren, in the United States. The only exception is if you are in a state or federal park, game wardens and rangers use green lightbars.

Police, Emergency Responders, and people who have business requesting the right of way in an emergency, or pulling you over do not run amber lights. They either run Red, Blue, Red/Clear, Blue/Clear, Red/Blue, or a mixture of Red and Blue with another color.
 
2013-06-22 02:06:54 PM
Yeah. The arrested seems to have a strong dose of that rapey-murdery vibe. Good thing the woman he stopped had the presence of mind to call 911. And I agree with a few other comments: really unlikely this is the first time he's done this.
 
2013-06-22 02:10:27 PM

hardinparamedic: Police, Emergency Responders, and people who have business requesting the right of way in an emergency, or pulling you over do not run amber lights. They either run Red, Blue, Red/Clear, Blue/Clear, Red/Blue, or a mixture of Red and Blue with another color.


This cries out for standardization. Given that just about every police agency receives Federal funds to some degree, it would seem simple to condition some of those funds such that all new light-bars comply with some standard and that all old ones be replaced within 7 years.
 
2013-06-22 02:11:00 PM

basemetal: /if you wannabe a cop
//go become a cop
///earn it


Come to Memphis. The police want you, for crap pay and long hours! And if you're a felon*, it's no problem! They'll second chance you!

/*non-drug and non-sexual violence.
//No. I'm not being sarcastic or kidding.
 
2013-06-22 02:13:20 PM
Wow, he's packing a .40 cal pistol and has his work vehicle equipped with cop lights?  Sounds like being a mechanic is awesome.
 
2013-06-22 02:13:52 PM

AndreMA: This cries out for standardization. Given that just about every police agency receives Federal funds to some degree, it would seem simple to condition some of those funds such that all new light-bars comply with some standard and that all old ones be replaced within 7 years.


IIRC, the Feds have tried this under the DOT every few years, and the states have shot it down because they want the control over their own things.

There's a bill on capital hill right now, HR 809, which aims to give the federal government the power to standardize emergency medical and rescue licensure and regulations across the United States in addition to addressing pay-for-performance billing under insurance and medicare rather than pay for transport, but I doubt it'll pass. They could do that for the Fire and EMS guys with that bill, but the Law Enforcement is a different story.

/still think LEOs should be state licensed like plumbers or Paramedics, and that an independent oversight board should be able to yank their license and make them unable to work even if their departments ignore problems.
 
2013-06-22 02:14:16 PM
What a dumb ass.
 
2013-06-22 02:17:14 PM
We briefly had a guy on my old volunteer fire dept who we're pretty sure joined up just so he could have some kind of a pretext for having a light (red/clear here.) He'd go tear-assing down the road with that thing on just to get people to pull off the road for him - the big man on a mission type complex or something. Thankfully, he was quickly caught and given the boot. Creepy.
 
2013-06-22 02:18:59 PM
This guy should be an honorary FARK-cop since he has received so much of that cop-hate here.

i.imgur.com

/deserves a donut and some jail time for being such an asshat.
 
2013-06-22 02:21:26 PM
What is it with all these white guys taking the law into their own hands?
 
2013-06-22 02:21:56 PM
Having lived in Oregon, I am completely unsurprised. I especially love the Oregonians who match speed with other vehicles to enforce speed limits (usually around 60, even on straight flat roads), but this is great too. Just the next logical step, I suppose.
 
2013-06-22 02:22:31 PM
Volunteer firemen in Canada are usually green. Public works in Ontario are yellow and blue.

It's all weird everywhere
 
2013-06-22 02:24:42 PM

hardinparamedic: basemetal: /if you wannabe a cop
//go become a cop
///earn it

Come to Memphis. The police want you, for crap pay and long hours! And if you're a felon*, it's no problem! They'll second chance you!

/*non-drug and non-sexual violence.
//No. I'm not being sarcastic or kidding.


Oh yeah, no way that will have any adverse repercussions.
 
m00
2013-06-22 02:24:59 PM

Recoil Therapy: Ok, does anyone want to take a guess at a legitimate reason that he would need a light bar as a mechanic? I've been scratching my head for a few minutes & can't come up with one.


Tow trucks have them, because you want to alert other motorists when you are stopped on the side of a highway hooking up a car in the dark... or hauling a big ungainly piece of Detroit steel behind you. This dude was in a F150. Maybe he goes and jump-starts people, or does minor side-of-the-road work. With an F150, you can probably hook up a car behind you.
 
2013-06-22 02:25:04 PM

downstairs: I think its pretty common knowledge that you're not allowed to have red and/or blue flashing lights.  Yellow is for non-cop/fireman/ambulance trucks.  Yellow lights anyone can have.


What if you're colorblind?
 
2013-06-22 02:26:08 PM
Give this man a badge and a taser.

/He might actually want to help, just make sure he has a term limitation so it doesn't go to his head.
 
2013-06-22 02:26:43 PM
If any of you  people think this had anything to do with him being a wannabe cop, or trying to enforce traffic laws, you are prey.
 
m00
2013-06-22 02:27:27 PM
If he was smart he would have said "I'm a mechanic, and I flagged her down because I thought something was dangerously wrong with her vehicle based on how erratically she was operating it."
 
2013-06-22 02:29:42 PM
So, it's illegal to stop a suspected drunk driver (thereby possibly saving lives), but it's perfectly okay for a store to tackle and handcuff a suspected shoplifter (thereby saving a dozen eggs)(Fark main page, 6 stories down).
 
2013-06-22 02:32:41 PM
basemetal:Oh yeah, no way that will have any adverse repercussions.

I'll put it this way.

Shelby County, the unincorporated areas around Memphis? I'd put my life in the hands of those guys. They're all top notch, and all accredited departments that rarely, if ever, have any problems with the public and are incredibly professional. They make me proud to work with them.

City of Memphis? I'd rather crawl to the county line than have to depend on them. The only ones of them I have respect for are the ones I know personally. In the last year, we've had two people arrested on serial rape charges, one person arrested for putting a gun to the head of someone who cut them off and tracking them to their home after that person called 911 for help, multiple people arrested for bribery and theft, one idiot who murdered a family of three by going 90 miles an hour and blowing through red lights on a non-emergency call (who's being charged with three counts of vehicular homicide), and other incidents.
 
2013-06-22 02:33:17 PM
When you do the cop's job for them they make you part of their job.
 
2013-06-22 02:33:42 PM
Bake him away, toys...
 
2013-06-22 02:35:34 PM

fredklein: So, it's illegal to stop a suspected drunk driver (thereby possibly saving lives), but it's perfectly okay for a store to tackle and handcuff a suspected shoplifter (thereby saving a dozen eggs)(Fark main page, 6 stories down).


Pulling someone over on the side of the road for reasonable cause of drunk driving based on observed behavior is not the same, legally, as someone witnessing an actual crime in the act and intervening to perform a citizens arrest, especially if that happens on private property and is done by a security guard legally employed and on duty with that business.

In addition, some states have laws on the books, due to the rash of 70s and 80s era blue light rapists which prayed on women on the highways, which state the only person who can legally execute a stop on the road is a law enforcement officer. One or two actually state that it has to be a marked vehicle, or the person has the right to put on their hazard flashers and drive to a populated area or police station before pulling over (Mississippi passed just such a law two years ago after a blue-light murderer in Tunica.)
 
2013-06-22 02:38:55 PM

fredklein: So, it's illegal to stop a suspected drunk driver (thereby possibly saving lives), but it's perfectly okay for a store to tackle and handcuff a suspected shoplifter (thereby saving a dozen eggs)(Fark main page, 6 stories down).


Because you don't have the training to stop a drunk driver, or deal with a situation if it escalates.  If that person is just distracted and you cause them to have an accident you would be responsible.
 
2013-06-22 02:40:35 PM

Eps05: Volunteer firemen in Canada are usually green. Public works in Ontario are yellow and blue.

It's all weird everywhere


In Ontario, blue is for snow removal only.
 
2013-06-22 02:41:27 PM

hardinparamedic: Red lights are law enforcement, and blue lights are volunteers there.


Regarding NY:

Red can also be fire, for chief officers. However, if you have a red light card you MUST also use a siren when responding with a red light flashing.

Green is also used in NY for EMTs and medics that are members of VACs. FD EMTs can use green if they wish instead of blue. You are forbidden by state law to use a siren with blue or green lights.

Aaaaand just to make it really messed up, in NY funeral processions can use purple lights.

Everything but red/siren is considered a "courtesy" light, and no one has to pull over, the driver can't speed or ignore other traffic laws (run red lights, blow stop signs, etc.)

For all courtesy lights, you are allowed by law to have "a single light." This used to mean the teardrop shaped "Kojack" light but I knew a ton of vollies when I was a firefighter who would rig multiple grill lights as well as LED light bars on their cars and use timers/switchers so that only one lamp was lit at a time. But when it was running, if they came up behind you, you'd swear it was a cop. Another good trick was using blue/yellow LED light bars on the car, but getting the most orange-y yellow lens you could find. At night, it appeared close enough to red to make people move over.
 
2013-06-22 02:42:35 PM
FarkinHostile
If any of you  people think this had anything to do with him being a wannabe cop, or trying to enforce traffic laws, you are prey.

You make an excellent point.

But I have to make the point, is he relatively any better or worse then the average cop out there today?
 
2013-06-22 02:44:21 PM

dramboxf: Regarding NY:

Red can also be fire, for chief officers. However, if you have a red light card you MUST also use a siren when responding with a red light flashing.

Green is also used in NY for EMTs and medics that are members of VACs. FD EMTs can use green if they wish instead of blue. You are forbidden by state law to use a siren with blue or green lights.

Aaaaand just to make it really messed up, in NY funeral processions can use purple lights.

Everything but red/siren is considered a "courtesy" light, and no one has to pull over, the driver can't speed or ignore other traffic laws (run red lights, blow stop signs, etc.)

For all courtesy lights, you are allowed by law to have "a single light." This used to mean the teardrop shaped "Kojack" light but I knew a ton of vollies when I was a firefighter who would rig multiple grill lights as well as LED light bars on their cars and use timers/switchers so that only one lamp was lit at a time. But when it was running, if they came up behind you, you'd swear it was a cop. Another good trick was using blue/yellow LED light bars on the car, but getting the most orange-y yellow lens you could find. At night, it appeared close enough to red to make people move over.


NY and NJ are odd little places, I've learned. The stuff they are able to get away with up there amazes me.

Enemabag Jones: But I have to make the point, is he relatively any better or worse then the average cop out there today?


The average cop out there won't pull you over, rape you, shoot you in the face and leave you for dead. YMMV.
 
2013-06-22 02:45:49 PM
Oh, and another thing, you know the electronic air horn that you hear cop cars use? That "whoop! whoop!" noise? In NY that's not considered a siren -- so a lot of the younger vollie guys used to install a Whalen siren in their car and not use the siren part of it, just the air horn. The only problem is, almost ALL cops use that feature when pulling someone over rather than running the siren. So people are programmed to move aside when they hear that noise.

The whole courtesy light thing is just a potential shiatstorm. Find a mixed (career + volunteer) department were vollie members respond from home to the alarms in a POV and bring up blue lights. Then pop some popcorn and sit back. HOURS of entertainment that will usually escalate into a gigantic argument.
 
2013-06-22 02:47:34 PM
dramboxf:The whole courtesy light thing is just a potential shiatstorm. Find a mixed (career + volunteer) department were vollie members respond from home to the alarms in a POV and bring up blue lights. Then pop some popcorn and sit back. HOURS of entertainment that will usually escalate into a gigantic argument.

You're an evil, evil person. I love it. You're awesome.

I've found that when trolling volunteers, the best way to do so is to bring up spine boarding and high flow oxygen. Hours of fun.
 
2013-06-22 02:49:07 PM

hardinparamedic: NY and NJ are odd little places, I've learned. The stuff they are able to get away with up there amazes me.


PA freaks me out. Almost any vollie firefighter can run red lights and sirens on their POVs. You see tons of jacked-up pickup trucks with full light racks on top SCREAMING to calls. My cousin was a chief officer of his hometown fd, and the 18-21yos were a constant headache. It's a wonder there weren't more horrific car accidents.

And the truth is, I had a blue light for 3 years when I was a FF/EMT, and it got you to a call about 30 seconds faster than just driving normally. Yeah, I'd blow a red light for a call at 3 in the morning, but really, the best thing about the blue light was the cops letting you through a roadblock to the fireground so you didn't have to hoof it to call with your turnout gear.
 
2013-06-22 02:49:20 PM

I_Don't_Want_FOP: [img.fark.net image 195x259]

Wanted for questioning.


How to properly execute a citizen's arrest.

Link
 
2013-06-22 02:49:54 PM
The greater tragedy is this. I read that upon seeing this article, someone's 3 year old daughter said "Daddy, I can't be a cop, because I'm a citizen". We try and try to spare children the negativity of citizen stereotypes, but situations like this only reinforce that stereotype. They should not be exposed to citizens treated like they are not cops. What does this say about our nation? Have we evolved so little since cops earned the right to police? Perhaps until a citizen becomes a cop, only then will our children believe they also can be cops.

That poor girl now wants to be a nurse. *sigh* what a world.
 
2013-06-22 02:51:29 PM

m00: Recoil Therapy: Ok, does anyone want to take a guess at a legitimate reason that he would need a light bar as a mechanic? I've been scratching my head for a few minutes & can't come up with one.

Tow trucks have them, because you want to alert other motorists when you are stopped on the side of a highway hooking up a car in the dark... or hauling a big ungainly piece of Detroit steel behind you. This dude was in a F150. Maybe he goes and jump-starts people, or does minor side-of-the-road work. With an F150, you can probably hook up a car behind you.


Sorry, didn't state the question clearly.  Any legitimate reason for a mechanic to have blue & red lights mounted?
 
2013-06-22 02:51:48 PM
hardinparamedic,
Enemabag Jones: But I have to make the point, is he relatively any better or worse then the average cop out there today?
The average cop out there won't pull you over, rape you, shoot you in the face and leave you for dead. YMMV.


RFTA, I take it back. So sorry.

"I was in the left lane. He turned on red and blue lights and was pulling me over," Shannon told KATU News during an interview Friday.
Shannon pulled over and said she suspected something was wrong when the man initially failed to identify himself or what agency he was with.
While suspicious, Shannon didn't immediately fear for her life. But that changed, she said, when the man pulled up his shirt and showed her he had a gun. She said the man then identified himself as a Salem police officer.
 
2013-06-22 02:52:15 PM

dramboxf: And the truth is, I had a blue light for 3 years when I was a FF/EMT, and it got you to a call about 30 seconds faster than just driving normally. Yeah, I'd blow a red light for a call at 3 in the morning, but really, the best thing about the blue light was the cops letting you through a roadblock to the fireground so you didn't have to hoof it to call with your turnout gear.


I had red lights and sirens in my Sunfire for the first four years of my career, when I was a volunteer. We all responded from home, no one stayed at the station, and I was the only EMT in the district.

But I was in a very rural area too. I wish I was a lot smarter back then. Had I know how much legal and personal liability I was taking using those, I'd have just driven normally everywhere.
 
2013-06-22 02:52:53 PM

hardinparamedic: I've found that when trolling volunteers, the best way to do so is to bring up spine boarding and high flow oxygen. Hours of fun.


Yeaaaaaah.... I know central/west CT EMS council just made a massive policy change about longboarding ambulatory patients. Basically, if they can walk, you can collar them based on MOE but you're not supposed to board "everyone" anymore. They're trying to get it so that the longboard is used just for extrication and then it's "position of comfort" on the gurney unless there's a chance of significant spinal involvement.

As for high flow O2, do you mean NRBs or someone flowing 15lpm through a nasal cannula? Otherwise known as the "leafblower effect."

I know a ton of old-skool EMTs that were trained in the 80s and 90s that are still singing the "Hypoxic Drive/COPD" song and refuse to believe some of the newer protocols are more effective.
 
2013-06-22 02:53:36 PM

Recoil Therapy: Any legitimate reason for a mechanic to have blue & red lights mounted?


Nope.
 
2013-06-22 02:56:19 PM

hardinparamedic: I wish I was a lot smarter back then. Had I know how much legal and personal liability I was taking using those, I'd have just driven normally everywhere.


Yup. I drove like an idiot for about seven months with my blue light. One day my pager went off around 2:55 and I was blasting down this street (seriously doing like 60 in a 30) and I flew by one of the grammar schools in my hometown. The "call" that I was rushing to turned out to be a garbage can fire. Some kids lit a garbage can full of leaves on fire.

I mean, this was a call that could have been handled with a fire extinguisher. Didn't even need to roll an engine, and I was SCREAMING to this call.

Once I got there I realized that I'd been roaring past an elementary school that gets out for the day at 3:00pm.

That was the end of driving like an idiot.
 
2013-06-22 02:57:30 PM

hardinparamedic: fredklein: So, it's illegal to stop a suspected drunk driver (thereby possibly saving lives), but it's perfectly okay for a store to tackle and handcuff a suspected shoplifter (thereby saving a dozen eggs)(Fark main page, 6 stories down).

Pulling someone over on the side of the road for reasonable cause of drunk driving based on observed behavior is not the same, legally, as someone witnessing an actual crime in the act and intervening to perform a citizens arrest, especially if that happens on private property and is done by a security guard legally employed and on duty with that business.


You may want to read the actual story referenced.

IMO, the guy is a danger to society.

Although, in principle he does have a point.

A drunk driver is an immediate danger.  Call 911 and let that guy head to head a family of 5 in the meantime?

Can't fault someone for trying to intervene in a potentially dangerous situation, there is a logic at work there.

No different than some lunatic in public waving a gun around and screaming a normal citizen stopping him from hurting anyone.(be it a tackle or what have you).  9 times out of 10 that citizen is a hero.

Now, back to this guy.  Just happens to have lights and a gun.  That's a no-no, especially flaunting the gun to get cooperation.

Concerned (and brave)citizen =\= overzealous vigilante

We should not necessarily bar ordinary citizens from helping regulate crime where they can. A lot of ordinary people can do heroic things, it's good for the community, and it sends a message of solidarity to those that would do us harm.

But we also shouldn't encourage psycho's for whom it's an actively sought thing, a common daydream that they've obviously prepared for.

It's a tough line to walk.
 
2013-06-22 02:59:14 PM

hardinparamedic: I've found that when trolling volunteers,


Trolling career guys is just as easy. Find some 20+year guy and begin explaining how all the old-style tactics are outdated and you have some exciting new ideas you got from reading the NFPA website or something, and how you want to change the training curriculum. It's important that they not be an officer...some dude who's been a front-line firefighter for 20 years and seen a thousand probies come and go.

THAT shiat is hilarious.
 
2013-06-22 03:01:03 PM
Impersonating a police officer and brandishing a weapon?  Have fun in lockup, dumbass.
 
2013-06-22 03:03:12 PM

dramboxf: Yeaaaaaah.... I know central/west CT EMS council just made a massive policy change about longboarding ambulatory patients. Basically, if they can walk, you can collar them based on MOE but you're not supposed to board "everyone" anymore. They're trying to get it so that the longboard is used just for extrication and then it's "position of comfort" on the gurney unless there's a chance of significant spinal involvement.


We've been that way down here for a while. Every ALS service, and many of the BLS-Transport services have spinal clearance protocols based on the NEXUS Study Criteria, or the Canadian C-Spine Rules. Our protocols even say MOI is to be considered, but not used as primary indication.

If we actually cared, we'd be using vacuum mats for immobilization or gelpadded boards, but that's another story.

dramboxf: As for high flow O2, do you mean NRBs or someone flowing 15lpm through a nasal cannula? Otherwise known as the "leafblower effect."


I mean the NRBs. The fact many people won't stock Venturis or SFMs is silly. We've got high quality studies which show detrimental outcomes in MI and CVA patients getting high flow who are not hypoxic, and we've even got studies which show in the short time we give COPD patients in exacerbation nitrogen washout during transport, we're increasing their mortalities by 3-5%. One of the best things our medical director ever did was change the protocols to "Oxygen titrated to patient's condition"

dramboxf: I know a ton of old-skool EMTs that were trained in the 80s and 90s that are still singing the "Hypoxic Drive/COPD" song and refuse to believe some of the newer protocols are more effective.


Hypoxic Drive Knockout is BS for field medics, and I've tried teaching the new guys out of school that it's better to titrate rather than blow out at the same time. The problem is you're fighting to "unlearn" the NREMT way and teach them the actual way things need to be done. Too many people come out of school thinking the NREMT checkoffs are a care plan for handling patients.

dramboxf: Yup. I drove like an idiot for about seven months with my blue light. One day my pager went off around 2:55 and I was blasting down this street (seriously doing like 60 in a 30) and I flew by one of the grammar schools in my hometown. The "call" that I was rushing to turned out to be a garbage can fire. Some kids lit a garbage can full of leaves on fire.

I mean, this was a call that could have been handled with a fire extinguisher. Didn't even need to roll an engine, and I was SCREAMING to this call.


I think most people go through that. The thing that makes you good is that you realized it, realized that it wasn't even helping, and realized it was endangering you and the people around you, and you changed the behavior.

Too many people don't, and we get laws like these as a result.
 
2013-06-22 03:08:49 PM

dramboxf: Trolling career guys is just as easy. Find some 20+year guy and begin explaining how all the old-style tactics are outdated and you have some exciting new ideas you got from reading the NFPA website or something, and how you want to change the training curriculum. It's important that they not be an officer...some dude who's been a front-line firefighter for 20 years and seen a thousand probies come and go.

THAT shiat is hilarious.


I had a career guy try to ruin my life, going so far as to stalk me and harass my employers for three years, because I pointed out to him that he made a drug error that he needed to report.

I tend to reserve trolling the career guys for the special dumbasses. Like the guy who gave 125mg of Solu-medrol to a person with a five day old back injury with lateral thigh numbness and tingling because it was "the Spinal Protocol". Ignoring the fact that the spinal protocol has to be started within 3 hours of an injury, and the initial dose is 30mg/kg of Solu-Medrol.

But, the joke goes that the Fire Service is 200 years of tradition with no progress. :) I do however, love the Yankiees idea of a Volunteer Station. When I was up at National Fire Academy doing their HazMedic program, the local station there had a career side that was like a professional fire station, and the volunteer side had a freaking bar!

omeganuepsilon: Concerned (and brave)citizen =\= overzealous vigilante


The problem is, omega, for every one of the former, there's about 30 or 40 of the later. The Zimmerman case is a good example of this. The whole situation could have been avoided had he been a witness, rather than tried to intervene.

omeganuepsilon: It's a tough line to walk.


Absolutely agree with you.
 
2013-06-22 03:10:54 PM

hardinparamedic: AndreMA: This cries out for standardization. Given that just about every police agency receives Federal funds to some degree, it would seem simple to condition some of those funds such that all new light-bars comply with some standard and that all old ones be replaced within 7 years.

IIRC, the Feds have tried this under the DOT every few years, and the states have shot it down because they want the control over their own things.

There's a bill on capital hill right now, HR 809, which aims to give the federal government the power to standardize emergency medical and rescue licensure and regulations across the United States in addition to addressing pay-for-performance billing under insurance and medicare rather than pay for transport, but I doubt it'll pass. They could do that for the Fire and EMS guys with that bill, but the Law Enforcement is a different story.

/still think LEOs should be state licensed like plumbers or Paramedics, and that an independent oversight board should be able to yank their license and make them unable to work even if their departments ignore problems.


IMO, that bill is a bad idea.  If it doesn't pass, yes, some states might have lower standards for emergency services, but I'm not a fan of centralizing power especially where it doesn't realize what they're doing.  Instead we can have 50 different approaches to the problem and some will work better than others and the ones that don't work as well can learn from other states that work better.

I wish I had called a taxi instead of an ambulance the last time I needed emergency services.  It's not that the emergency crew didn't do a good job.  They were professional and performed their jobs well.  It's just that it's ridiculously expensive.

It's sort of hard to grasp why it costs so much.  The consumer thinks the ambulance crews are just sitting around waiting for a call and when they come out, they use a bit of gas to get to you and even if they don't break out any equipment or supplies it still costs $800 or more.  Did it really cost that much to dispatch them and have them transport you?  Of course it didn't, but it did cost quite a bit to have them available just in case you or anyone else needed them.

I guess it's good in a way.  We shouldn't have people calling an ambulance for paper cuts.  I won't call one unless I think I'm dying or I see someone who has a severe injury.

I would actually be willing to pay slightly higher taxes for people to avoid the shock of expenses for emergency medical help that requires an ambulance.
 
2013-06-22 03:12:33 PM

hardinparamedic: We've been that way down here for a while. Every ALS service, and many of the BLS-Transport services have spinal clearance protocols based on the NEXUS Study Criteria, or the Canadian C-Spine Rules. Our protocols even say MOI is to be considered, but not used as primary indication.


ALS can do that in my part of CA, but if a BLS unit is the primary caregiver, they still go full board-n-bag. Luckily, there's only one place in the county that I know of that the primary EMS responders are BLS-only.

hardinparamedic: Hypoxic Drive Knockout is BS for field medics, and I've tried teaching the new guys out of school that it's better to titrate rather than blow out at the same time.


Last time I rode on an ALS ambulance (2008 or so) the medic swore by CPAP+NTG for COPD. I mean, he thought it was like, magic, or something. He was the only medic I ever met who didn't wear a watch. Weird.

hardinparamedic: and you changed the behavior.


I was 20 or so then, I'm 47 now. I think if I joined a department again that had respond in your POV as part of the job, I wouldn't even get a light. In my part of CA there are volly departments, but you work a shift and stay at the firehouse. People do respond in POVs, but to the firehouse to staff a second-due rig, not to the fireground. And no one gets courtesy lights here.
 
2013-06-22 03:15:24 PM

hardinparamedic: the local station there had a career side that was like a professional fire station, and the volunteer side had a freaking bar!


My department had a bar in the vollie quarters. With a kegorater. And it was my job to keep that thing filled with a fresh keg.

Even though we partied insanely hard, in 3 years with that department I only saw one person respond to an alarm intoxicated because of our bar, and we just tied him to the hose bed.

It also helped that we had about 2 working fires a year. Most of the other calls were medical, car accidents, brush fires, leaf fires, shiat like that. I mean, in 3 years I was there, we had (counting)...like 5 "working structure fires."
 
2013-06-22 03:17:18 PM

gfid: /still think LEOs should be state licensed like plumbers or Paramedics, and that an independent oversight board should be able to yank their license and make them unable to work even if their departments ignore problems.


A lot of states have something called POST. Peace Officer Standards & Testing. You have to have a POST certificate as a Police Officer (or Peace Officer, depending) to work as a cop in a lot of states. CA is one of them, and you can lose your POST certificate for doing Bad Things. I just finished a POST course to become a 911 dispatcher.
 
2013-06-22 03:19:20 PM
Why didn't they charge him with brandishing a gun too?
 
2013-06-22 03:20:38 PM
Then again, CA is weird. Where I grew up (NY, 'natch) if you wanted to be a LEO, you took a civil service exam and then got on a list. If you passed the chief's interview, and all the background/screening stuff, they send you to the police academy and then onto your job.

Here in CA, you put yourself through the academy at your own expense, and then when you have the "basic POST" certificate, you start applying to places. Yes, there are some exceptions, like the LAPD/LASO, CHP and so forth, but almost every "small town" department up here does it the backwards way. To me, it's a $$$ issue for the junior college (who runs the academy.) I know one class of 33, every person applied to the Sheriff's office, and every single one of them bounced for something in the background. Of course, the SO here does a 3-month background investigation. I mean, if you move to Sonoma County from, say, Chicago, and you apply to be a deputy and get to the background investigation part of the process, they stick a deputy investigator on a plane for O'hare and start talking to your old neighbors and employers.
 
2013-06-22 03:21:21 PM

gfid: IMO, that bill is a bad idea.  If it doesn't pass, yes, some states might have lower standards for emergency services, but I'm not a fan of centralizing power especially where it doesn't realize what they're doing.  Instead we can have 50 different approaches to the problem and some will work better than others and the ones that don't work as well can learn from other states that work better.


The problem is that the states refuse to play nicely with others, and the levels and scope of training vary greatly depending where you are. In Tennessee, an EMT-IV/A goes to school for nearly six months (if they go 4 days a week, 8 hour days) or a year. In Alabama, they go to school for 120 hours to get their EMT-B. There's no educational standardization. A nurse can walk into one state and get a license, and go into another and get one just as easily.

There's also no fee-for-performance framework in Medicare and Medicaid right now, which I'll explain below.

gfid: I wish I had called a taxi instead of an ambulance the last time I needed emergency services.  It's not that the emergency crew didn't do a good job.  They were professional and performed their jobs well.  It's just that it's ridiculously expensive.

It's sort of hard to grasp why it costs so much.  The consumer thinks the ambulance crews are just sitting around waiting for a call and when they come out, they use a bit of gas to get to you and even if they don't break out any equipment or supplies it still costs $800 or more.  Did it really cost that much to dispatch them and have them transport you?  Of course it didn't, but it did cost quite a bit to have them available just in case you or anyone else needed them.


Part of the problem is that there is no pay-for-performance model in EMS - it's all pay for transport. Medicare, medicaid, and the insurance companies will only pay if you transport someone. In addition, the problem is also cost. It costs a lot to put an EMT or Paramedic through school, and pay for their continuing education and benefits. Equipment costs a lot - a Cardiac monitor/defibrillator can cost as much as a new mercedes benz, IV Pumps and Ventilators/CPAP as well. Most ambulances average 70-250,000 dollars in cost depending on what kind of model they are. In addition  medicare and medicaid currently pay a flat fee based on certain tiers of service, but again require transport rather than treatment and discharge. The House Bill was supposed to mandate fee-for-performance and bonuses for eliminating unnecessary transports to ambulance services, which would not only lower cost, but promote improved training levels.

As an example, MedStar EMS in FW, Texas, saved 102 million dollars locally last year to their hospital systems by preventing unnecessary admissions through a community care paramedic program, and early intervention with 911 system abusers. It's one of the only programs like it in the nation.

Hospitals already get a pay for performance bonus, and it's overdue for us.

gfid: I guess it's good in a way.  We shouldn't have people calling an ambulance for paper cuts.  I won't call one unless I think I'm dying or I see someone who has a severe injury.


The best examples I use of this is chest pain versus new onset fever. If you're having chest pain, you really can't tell, as a layperson, if that person is having a cardiac event or not. And many people deny it, or wait too long, before calling help. In that case, an ambulance is warranted. Paramedics can identify time critical cardiac events, and perform procedures which allow a patient to go straight from the ambulance to the cath lab, reducing door to balloon time, and in some cases making the difference between someone going home with very little heart damage, to someone going home in heart failure. On the other hand, you have people who will call 911 because they or their kid have a fever for the last hour that is low grade, and haven't even given tylenol or motrin.

gfid: I would actually be willing to pay slightly higher taxes for people to avoid the shock of expenses for emergency medical help that requires an ambulance.


That's another big problem. In the UK and Canada, Ambulances are done by a central, independant medical authority. In the US, some areas have Fire EMS, some areas have private, and many areas have hospital based, or third-party county services. And the Fire Side doesn't exactly have the best interests in hand in trying to take it over, either. The solution in the US is to do the same as other countries have done, but the problem is that's socialism to too many people.
 
2013-06-22 03:21:43 PM

Maul555: Why didn't they charge him with brandishing a gun too?


Is lifting your shirt to reveal a firearm "brandishing?" Or do you have to be waving it around?
 
2013-06-22 03:22:59 PM

dramboxf: Last time I rode on an ALS ambulance (2008 or so) the medic swore by CPAP+NTG for COPD. I mean, he thought it was like, magic, or something. He was the only medic I ever met who didn't wear a watch. Weird.


I just died a little inside reading that.

Really. Died.

CPAP, on the other hand, is great if you can give inline treatments with it, and can actually prevent them from buying a tube which is a BFD. Otherwise, it's not very effective.
 
2013-06-22 03:23:15 PM
dramboxf
gfid: /still think LEOs should be state licensed like plumbers or Paramedics, and that an independent oversight board should be able to yank their license and make them unable to work even if their departments ignore problems.
A lot of states have something called POST. Peace Officer Standards & Testing. You have to have a POST certificate as a Police Officer (or Peace Officer, depending) to work as a cop in a lot of states. CA is one of them, and you can lose your POST certificate for doing Bad Things. I just finished a POST course to become a 911 dispatcher.


I do understand that different cities have different criteria for hiring.

But the state does not have veto power over cities on officer specs/expected performance standards?
 
2013-06-22 03:25:02 PM

Enemabag Jones: But the state does not have veto power over cities on officer specs/expected performance standards?


Not really. Which, oddly enough, they do over security guards. And depending on the state, a POST Certification is not a board-granted certification, meaning that they can't really control how or where you use it. Someone can be fire for police brutality from one department, and go to another and get hired on if they're willing to put up with him.
 
2013-06-22 03:27:03 PM

hardinparamedic: In the US, some areas have Fire EMS, some areas have private, and many areas have hospital based, or third-party county services.


And in some places (NYC, for example) they have/had all of those. NYCEMS used to be a mixed third-service with volunteer hospital-based ALS as well, as well as some BLS-only ALL-vollie services (Hetzolah, for the Hasidic community.) FDNY had ZERO desire to do EMS at all.

Then some bean counter at city hall said, in essence, "Hey, the new fire codes and building codes and enforcement have resulted in a LOT of $90,000/yr firefighters sitting around not doing a lot. Maybe we should close firehouses and consolidate companies."

All of a sudden, you have the EMS Bureau of FDNY, which took over the Health & Hospitals third-service EMS in 1995. They still have the volunteer-hospital-ALS units and Hetzolah, but FDNY runs about 1200 ALS & BLS ambulance shifts a day.
 
2013-06-22 03:27:27 PM
hardinparamedic,
Not really. Which, oddly enough, they do over security guards. And depending on the state, a POST Certification is not a board-granted certification, meaning that they can't really control how or where you use it. Someone can be fire for police brutality from one department, and go to another and get hired on if they're willing to put up with him.


Well there is part of the problem.
 
2013-06-22 03:27:31 PM

hardinparamedic: omeganuepsilon: Concerned (and brave)citizen =\= overzealous vigilante

The problem is, omega, for every one of the former, there's about 30 or 40 of the later. The Zimmerman case is a good example of this. The whole situation could have been avoided had he been a witness, rather than tried to intervene.


Citation ne---   Citation impossible.  There are two equally possible theories with the facts we have.

Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to say "could have been avoided" for millions of reasons, and none of them have any relevancy as to our current objective on deciding if he's guilty or not.(ie if the community introduced themselves to neighbors, if it was raining more heavily, if zimm hadn't actually been a help with capturing/preventing crime in the past and it went to his head, if TM had walked with a purpose(It's a military thing, always mind posture and look like you belong and have every right to do what you're doing, it was the only way to get from point A to B without being screamed at, to not look like you're slinking), if TM's checkout at 7-11 wasn't quite so speedy...DAMN 7-11!!1....whatever.

It's all irrelevant.
Things get to be controversial because either side has it's pros/cons that could be true.  If it were some provable thing, it would not be news.
/threadjack

hardinparamedic: The problem is, omega, for every one of the former, there's about 30 or 40 of the later


Citation needed.

A lot of the cases(like the Zimm threadjack) get so much media coverage, months, years after the events unfolded, yet, the real hero's go unsung.  They're lighthearted commentary or fluff pieces, IF and when they make the news.

Society dwells on that is sensational and controversial, and forgets the rest.
 
2013-06-22 03:33:02 PM

Enemabag Jones: But the state does not have veto power over cities on officer specs/expected performance standards?


Here in CA, you must have a CA-state level POST certificate to be hired as a police officer. For those agencies that run their own academy (LAPD, LASO, CHP, etc.) THEY are an accredited POST training facility. And POST does audit them at least once every 24 months to make sure they're not dropping the ball.

However, if a given officer does a Bad Thing and is fired by an agency, his POST certificate isn't automatically canceled. I'd have to find out what the process is for having your POST ticket pulled. There are also various levels of POST certification, and the state requires that all police officer get to Level III within 18-24 months of being hired, I believe. Plus, CA POST requires continuing education credits. So cops have to do, I think, 24 CEUs per year.

I will ask a LEO buddy of mine what can get your CA POST ticket yanked. There might be automatic criteria (being convicted of a felony would do it, since you can't have a firearm and you need a firearm to be a cop, for example) or it might be done via a DA's request via a judge for a cop who bounces from department to department one step of IA.

Although, I have to say, where I live that's not an issue. Here in Sonoma, it you get a rep as a problem child, no one will hire you. The most significant officer-malfeasance issue we've had locally in the last 12 or so years was a Junior College Police Department cop stealing money from the machines that collect parking fees for the JC lots for those people who don't have a pass.
 
2013-06-22 03:33:53 PM

Enemabag Jones: Well there is part of the problem.


Agreed. Police have about the same ability as a Doctor to jack you up for life, and the Doctor has more oversight and regulation.

omeganuepsilon: Citation ne---   Citation impossible.  There are two equally possible theories with the facts we have.


I'm just making a statement of personal opinion. I don't have a psychological study which demonstrates my belief that common sense is not common at all. I tend to assume the lowest common denominator until proven otherwise, and that way I'm always pleasantly surprised at people, and never disappointed.

omeganuepsilon: Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to say "could have been avoided" for millions of reasons, and none of them have any relevancy as to our current objective on deciding if he's guilty or not.


No, I absolutely agree. Stupidity is not criminal, in many cases.

dramboxf: And in some places (NYC, for example) they have/had all of those. NYCEMS used to be a mixed third-service with volunteer hospital-based ALS as well, as well as some BLS-only ALL-vollie services (Hetzolah, for the Hasidic community.) FDNY had ZERO desire to do EMS at all.

Then some bean counter at city hall said, in essence, "Hey, the new fire codes and building codes and enforcement have resulted in a LOT of $90,000/yr firefighters sitting around not doing a lot. Maybe we should close firehouses and consolidate companies."

All of a sudden, you have the EMS Bureau of FDNY, which took over the Health & Hospitals third-service EMS in 1995. They still have the volunteer-hospital-ALS units and Hetzolah, but FDNY runs about 1200 ALS & BLS ambulance shifts a day.


FDNY EMS are abused horribly, from everyone I've talked to there. It's one of the only Fire EMS services where the private side pays more, and they make an absolute fraction of what their fire service colleagues make.

The best examples I can use of a Fire/EMS combination department that I would be proud to be a part of are Seattle Fire and Nashville Fire.

omeganuepsilon: the real hero's go unsung.


One of the issues with that is that anyone who typically does a heroic act or deed does not want to be viewed as a hero by others. To them, they're either doing their job, or what they would want others to do for them.

But I agree with you. We had a good samaritan pull a man from a burning car earlier this week, and the news never even touched it. All he got was a thanks from the deputy.
 
2013-06-22 03:38:43 PM

hardinparamedic: The best examples I can use of a Fire/EMS combination department that I would be proud to be a part of are Seattle Fire and Nashville Fire.


Boston EMS is amazing. Even if you're a NREMT-P with 20 years experience, if you want to run ALS for Boston EMS, you start out as an EMT and go through their medic training program. It's a full third-service, not Fire based.

I also hear the Broward County, FL Fire/Rescue is amazing.
 
2013-06-22 03:46:51 PM

MNguy: downstairs: I think its pretty common knowledge that you're not allowed to have red and/or blue flashing lights.  Yellow is for non-cop/fireman/ambulance trucks.  Yellow lights anyone can have.

You're a dipshiat if you have any kind of lights on your car that aren't factory.


img.fark.net
What a dipsh*t might look like.

*want*
 
2013-06-22 03:47:52 PM

dramboxf: I will ask a LEO buddy of mine what can get your CA POST ticket yanked. There might be automatic criteria (being convicted of a felony would do it, since you can't have a firearm and you need a firearm to be a cop, for example) or it might be done via a DA's request via a judge for a cop who bounces from department to department one step of IA.

Although, I have to say, where I live that's not an issue. Here in Sonoma, it you get a rep as a problem child, no one will hire you. The most significant officer-malfeasance issue we've had locally in the last 12 or so years was a Junior College Police Department cop stealing money from the machines that collect parking fees for the JC lots for those people who don't have a pass.



The process is similar to the State Bar for lawyers or Medical board for Doctors/Nurses, a complaint is filed, POST investigates and makes a determination, that determination can then be appealed. Depending on the complaint they can pull it or suspend it and/or make the person take additional training. Problem is that many of ht e problem children never get that complaint filed unless there are criminal charges they just get fired and move to parts of the State where they are hired as experienced officers even though the Chief or Sheriff is aware of their past.
 
2013-06-22 03:50:08 PM
Didn't Romney do this when he was a kid in Lansing? Or something like this?
 
2013-06-22 04:02:46 PM

hardinparamedic: I tend to assume the lowest common denominator until proven otherwise, and that way I'm always pleasantly surprised at people, and never disappointed.


Sure, works as a theory, looks great on paper.

Flagrant pessimist that I am when it comes to society at large, it seems I can never lower the bar enough.  I always end up disappointed.
 
2013-06-22 04:07:46 PM
I once took the keys out of a drunk's ignition after seeing him nearly hit a few people on the highway. When he exited off the ramp he rear ended a car sitting at the light. His window was open so I just reached in and grabbed the keys. He was a big farker too, thank god someone had already called the cops, LOL.
 
2013-06-22 04:22:57 PM
He should have shot her.
Standing his ground.
 
2013-06-22 04:46:55 PM
I knew a guy from highschool like this once... I guarantee you this wasn't the first time he had done stuff like this.  He's probably raped someone before.
 
2013-06-22 05:04:31 PM

downstairs: I think its pretty common knowledge that you're not allowed to have red and/or blue flashing lights.  Yellow is for non-cop/fireman/ambulance trucks.  Yellow lights anyone can have.


This. Even as a licensed and armed security officer, you are NOT a cop. You have the exact same legal standing as a private citizen; the difference is if you're acting as a representative for a private property, you can tell someone to get off your damn lawn.

Red and blue lights are deemed "submission" lights, and are generally illegal to have on a private vehicle. Even cops themselves can't have them installed on their own cars, only vehicles registered to law enforcement departments.

Personally, this dude sounded more than a little rape-y, and the victim was lucky to have gotten clear from him.
 
2013-06-22 05:17:09 PM

Maul555: Why didn't they charge him with brandishing a gun too?


Because lifting your shirt isn't brandishing.
 
2013-06-22 07:24:48 PM

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Maul555: Why didn't they charge him with brandishing a gun too?

Because lifting your shirt isn't brandishing.


So if she panicked and tried to overpower the stranger with the gun who just chased her down, he'd have been justified in shooting her. Or so I hear.
 
2013-06-22 08:14:07 PM
Sadly, a very similar thing happened today near where I live, but with an actual drunk driver and tragic results. So the guy should be happy that it didnt end like this.

"A witness told police a woman behind the wheel of a Kia minivan was driving recklessly on Aiken Road, crossing back and forth in the roadway. The witness said a man driving a red Ford pickup truck pulled in front of the woman's vehicle and got out of his truck in the 16600 block of Aiken Road. The driver of the Kia, identified as Jennifer R. Pierce, 38, of Louisville, hit the man as he approached her vehicle, pinning him underneath, according to police."

So yeah, might wanna be a little more careful there, buddy.
 
2013-06-22 08:18:33 PM

hardinparamedic: Pulling someone over on the side of the road for reasonable cause of drunk driving based on observed behavior is not the same, legally, as someone witnessing an actual crime in the act and intervening to perform a citizens arrest, especially if that happens on private property and is done by a security guard legally employed and on duty with that business.


IF you actually read the other article, the guy was not caught shoplifting. He supposedly was seen shoplifting the previous day:

"Hey, hey, papito, how are you doing? Come here, come with me -- this is the guy that stole the other day -- no, no, you're going on the floor! You're going on the floor, you're going on the floor. Tell my brother to call to police!" Ubiera-Cruz said as he took the man down.


So, there was no "witnessing an actual crime in the act and intervening to perform a citizens arrest".
 
2013-06-22 08:38:58 PM

fredklein: IF you actually read the other article, the guy was not caught shoplifting. He supposedly was seen shoplifting the previous day:


And if you had actually linked the article from the other day, I might have actually read it.
 
2013-06-22 09:12:06 PM

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Maul555: Why didn't they charge him with brandishing a gun too?

Because lifting your shirt isn't brandishing.


In many jurisdictions it is. It depends on state law.

Abox: So if she panicked and tried to overpower the stranger with the gun who just chased her down, he'd have been justified in shooting her. Or so I hear.


You heard wrong. If you initiate a confrontation and then escalate it, you cannot claim self defense. Again, this depends on state law, but in most states any contribution to the confrontation means you are an instigator. The only exception would be if you try to clearly remove yourself from the situation. Walking away or otherwise trying to leave would be considered an end to that confrontation. If the other person chases you down at that point it's something different. Still, best to not initiate confrontations in the first place.
 
2013-06-22 09:19:18 PM
A dumbass who lived down the street where I grew up was a wanna-be cop. He once pulled over a woman to effect a citizens arrest over a traffic infraction. Too bad she was a plain-clothes police officer.
 
2013-06-22 09:34:34 PM

hardinparamedic: Part of the problem is that there is no pay-for-performance model in EMS - it's all pay for transport. Medicare, medicaid, and the insurance companies will only pay if you transport someone.


Does this vary per location? When my wife had a severe allergic attack, and she thought her throat was closing shut, we called the ambulance. But by the time they got in, the attack seemed to be over, and she was better, so they didn't take her to the hospital. We didn't receive a bill, and if I remember correctly they didn't ask for insurance information either. Not that we have a stellar insurance anyway. But our town does use a volunteer ambulance force.
 
2013-06-22 10:31:53 PM
Yet another responsible gun owner.
 
2013-06-23 12:30:38 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Yet another responsible gun owner.


Go bang your head against the wall or something.
 
2013-06-23 02:55:11 AM

finnished: hardinparamedic: Part of the problem is that there is no pay-for-performance model in EMS - it's all pay for transport. Medicare, medicaid, and the insurance companies will only pay if you transport someone.

Does this vary per location? When my wife had a severe allergic attack, and she thought her throat was closing shut, we called the ambulance. But by the time they got in, the attack seemed to be over, and she was better, so they didn't take her to the hospital. We didn't receive a bill, and if I remember correctly they didn't ask for insurance information either. Not that we have a stellar insurance anyway. But our town does use a volunteer ambulance force.


It depends. Some places will bill the patient directly for a treat-but-no-transport, but medicare won't accept that kind of charge currently.

Volunteer Ambulance Forces are a little different. And not to knock volunteers, but they're not known for maintaining high standards, either. By the sound of your statement, it sounds like she was having an anaphylactic reaction, and I'm surprised they were eager to not transport her, since they are well known for having rebound attacks 12-24 hours down the road without treatment.
 
2013-06-23 03:17:11 AM

hardinparamedic: And if you had actually linked the article from the other day, I might have actually read it.


I told you right where it was. Fark main page, 6 stories down,

Here's a link, even.

http://www.fark.com/comments/7809657/News-crew-doing-interview-about- s hoplifter-who-stuffed-eggs-down-his-pants-captures-video-of-capture-of -man-who-stuffed-eggs-down-his-pants-Wait-grocery-stores-have-handcuff s#new


Sheesh.
 
2013-06-23 03:43:01 AM

hardinparamedic: basemetal: /if you wannabe a cop
//go become a cop
///earn it

Come to Memphis. The police want you, for crap pay and long hours! And if you're a felon*, it's no problem! They'll second chance you!

/*non-drug and non-sexual violence.
//No. I'm not being sarcastic or kidding.


As a falled wanna-be cop in the Northeast reading this at his watchman job on a Saturday night, I am reacting with a hmmmmmm...
 
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