I_Don't_Want_FOP: [img.fark.net image 195x259]Wanted for questioning.
Recoil Therapy: "He said his emergency lights are for his job as a mechanic and he's never pulled anyone over before. "Ok, does anyone want to take a guess at a legitimate reason that he would need a light bar as a mechanic? I've been scratching my head for a few minutes & can't come up with one.The police ought to look into unsolved rapes or even murders in the area & see if he fits in there somewhere. I sincerely doubt that this was the first time that he's pulled anyone over.
downstairs: I think its pretty common knowledge that you're not allowed to have red and/or blue flashing lights. Yellow is for non-cop/fireman/ambulance trucks. Yellow lights anyone can have.
"Chill out, you guys. He's just part of the neighborhood watch."
MNguy: You're a dipshiat if you have any kind of lights on your car that aren't factory.
downstairs: Yellow is for non-cop/fireman/ambulance trucks.
YoOjo: Another foiled Rapey McRapekins.He'll try it again, guarantee it. Maybe differently now he's in the news for this method but he'll continue harassing women.
basemetal: /if you wannabe a cop//go become a cop///earn it
AndreMA: This cries out for standardization. Given that just about every police agency receives Federal funds to some degree, it would seem simple to condition some of those funds such that all new light-bars comply with some standard and that all old ones be replaced within 7 years.
hardinparamedic: basemetal: /if you wannabe a cop//go become a cop///earn itCome to Memphis. The police want you, for crap pay and long hours! And if you're a felon*, it's no problem! They'll second chance you!/*non-drug and non-sexual violence.//No. I'm not being sarcastic or kidding.
Recoil Therapy: Ok, does anyone want to take a guess at a legitimate reason that he would need a light bar as a mechanic? I've been scratching my head for a few minutes & can't come up with one.
fredklein: So, it's illegal to stop a suspected drunk driver (thereby possibly saving lives), but it's perfectly okay for a store to tackle and handcuff a suspected shoplifter (thereby saving a dozen eggs)(Fark main page, 6 stories down).
Eps05: Volunteer firemen in Canada are usually green. Public works in Ontario are yellow and blue.It's all weird everywhere
hardinparamedic: Red lights are law enforcement, and blue lights are volunteers there.
dramboxf: Regarding NY:Red can also be fire, for chief officers. However, if you have a red light card you MUST also use a siren when responding with a red light flashing.Green is also used in NY for EMTs and medics that are members of VACs. FD EMTs can use green if they wish instead of blue. You are forbidden by state law to use a siren with blue or green lights.Aaaaand just to make it really messed up, in NY funeral processions can use purple lights.Everything but red/siren is considered a "courtesy" light, and no one has to pull over, the driver can't speed or ignore other traffic laws (run red lights, blow stop signs, etc.)For all courtesy lights, you are allowed by law to have "a single light." This used to mean the teardrop shaped "Kojack" light but I knew a ton of vollies when I was a firefighter who would rig multiple grill lights as well as LED light bars on their cars and use timers/switchers so that only one lamp was lit at a time. But when it was running, if they came up behind you, you'd swear it was a cop. Another good trick was using blue/yellow LED light bars on the car, but getting the most orange-y yellow lens you could find. At night, it appeared close enough to red to make people move over.
Enemabag Jones: But I have to make the point, is he relatively any better or worse then the average cop out there today?
hardinparamedic: NY and NJ are odd little places, I've learned. The stuff they are able to get away with up there amazes me.
m00: Recoil Therapy: Ok, does anyone want to take a guess at a legitimate reason that he would need a light bar as a mechanic? I've been scratching my head for a few minutes & can't come up with one.Tow trucks have them, because you want to alert other motorists when you are stopped on the side of a highway hooking up a car in the dark... or hauling a big ungainly piece of Detroit steel behind you. This dude was in a F150. Maybe he goes and jump-starts people, or does minor side-of-the-road work. With an F150, you can probably hook up a car behind you.
dramboxf: And the truth is, I had a blue light for 3 years when I was a FF/EMT, and it got you to a call about 30 seconds faster than just driving normally. Yeah, I'd blow a red light for a call at 3 in the morning, but really, the best thing about the blue light was the cops letting you through a roadblock to the fireground so you didn't have to hoof it to call with your turnout gear.
hardinparamedic: I've found that when trolling volunteers, the best way to do so is to bring up spine boarding and high flow oxygen. Hours of fun.
Recoil Therapy: Any legitimate reason for a mechanic to have blue & red lights mounted?
hardinparamedic: I wish I was a lot smarter back then. Had I know how much legal and personal liability I was taking using those, I'd have just driven normally everywhere.
hardinparamedic: fredklein: So, it's illegal to stop a suspected drunk driver (thereby possibly saving lives), but it's perfectly okay for a store to tackle and handcuff a suspected shoplifter (thereby saving a dozen eggs)(Fark main page, 6 stories down).Pulling someone over on the side of the road for reasonable cause of drunk driving based on observed behavior is not the same, legally, as someone witnessing an actual crime in the act and intervening to perform a citizens arrest, especially if that happens on private property and is done by a security guard legally employed and on duty with that business.
hardinparamedic: I've found that when trolling volunteers,
dramboxf: Yeaaaaaah.... I know central/west CT EMS council just made a massive policy change about longboarding ambulatory patients. Basically, if they can walk, you can collar them based on MOE but you're not supposed to board "everyone" anymore. They're trying to get it so that the longboard is used just for extrication and then it's "position of comfort" on the gurney unless there's a chance of significant spinal involvement.
dramboxf: As for high flow O2, do you mean NRBs or someone flowing 15lpm through a nasal cannula? Otherwise known as the "leafblower effect."
dramboxf: I know a ton of old-skool EMTs that were trained in the 80s and 90s that are still singing the "Hypoxic Drive/COPD" song and refuse to believe some of the newer protocols are more effective.
dramboxf: Yup. I drove like an idiot for about seven months with my blue light. One day my pager went off around 2:55 and I was blasting down this street (seriously doing like 60 in a 30) and I flew by one of the grammar schools in my hometown. The "call" that I was rushing to turned out to be a garbage can fire. Some kids lit a garbage can full of leaves on fire.I mean, this was a call that could have been handled with a fire extinguisher. Didn't even need to roll an engine, and I was SCREAMING to this call.
dramboxf: Trolling career guys is just as easy. Find some 20+year guy and begin explaining how all the old-style tactics are outdated and you have some exciting new ideas you got from reading the NFPA website or something, and how you want to change the training curriculum. It's important that they not be an officer...some dude who's been a front-line firefighter for 20 years and seen a thousand probies come and go.THAT shiat is hilarious.
omeganuepsilon: Concerned (and brave)citizen =\= overzealous vigilante
omeganuepsilon: It's a tough line to walk.
hardinparamedic: AndreMA: This cries out for standardization. Given that just about every police agency receives Federal funds to some degree, it would seem simple to condition some of those funds such that all new light-bars comply with some standard and that all old ones be replaced within 7 years.IIRC, the Feds have tried this under the DOT every few years, and the states have shot it down because they want the control over their own things.There's a bill on capital hill right now, HR 809, which aims to give the federal government the power to standardize emergency medical and rescue licensure and regulations across the United States in addition to addressing pay-for-performance billing under insurance and medicare rather than pay for transport, but I doubt it'll pass. They could do that for the Fire and EMS guys with that bill, but the Law Enforcement is a different story./still think LEOs should be state licensed like plumbers or Paramedics, and that an independent oversight board should be able to yank their license and make them unable to work even if their departments ignore problems.
hardinparamedic: We've been that way down here for a while. Every ALS service, and many of the BLS-Transport services have spinal clearance protocols based on the NEXUS Study Criteria, or the Canadian C-Spine Rules. Our protocols even say MOI is to be considered, but not used as primary indication.
hardinparamedic: Hypoxic Drive Knockout is BS for field medics, and I've tried teaching the new guys out of school that it's better to titrate rather than blow out at the same time.
hardinparamedic: and you changed the behavior.
hardinparamedic: the local station there had a career side that was like a professional fire station, and the volunteer side had a freaking bar!
gfid: /still think LEOs should be state licensed like plumbers or Paramedics, and that an independent oversight board should be able to yank their license and make them unable to work even if their departments ignore problems.
gfid: IMO, that bill is a bad idea. If it doesn't pass, yes, some states might have lower standards for emergency services, but I'm not a fan of centralizing power especially where it doesn't realize what they're doing. Instead we can have 50 different approaches to the problem and some will work better than others and the ones that don't work as well can learn from other states that work better.
gfid: I wish I had called a taxi instead of an ambulance the last time I needed emergency services. It's not that the emergency crew didn't do a good job. They were professional and performed their jobs well. It's just that it's ridiculously expensive.It's sort of hard to grasp why it costs so much. The consumer thinks the ambulance crews are just sitting around waiting for a call and when they come out, they use a bit of gas to get to you and even if they don't break out any equipment or supplies it still costs $800 or more. Did it really cost that much to dispatch them and have them transport you? Of course it didn't, but it did cost quite a bit to have them available just in case you or anyone else needed them.
gfid: I guess it's good in a way. We shouldn't have people calling an ambulance for paper cuts. I won't call one unless I think I'm dying or I see someone who has a severe injury.
gfid: I would actually be willing to pay slightly higher taxes for people to avoid the shock of expenses for emergency medical help that requires an ambulance.
Maul555: Why didn't they charge him with brandishing a gun too?
dramboxf: Last time I rode on an ALS ambulance (2008 or so) the medic swore by CPAP+NTG for COPD. I mean, he thought it was like, magic, or something. He was the only medic I ever met who didn't wear a watch. Weird.
Enemabag Jones: But the state does not have veto power over cities on officer specs/expected performance standards?
hardinparamedic: In the US, some areas have Fire EMS, some areas have private, and many areas have hospital based, or third-party county services.
hardinparamedic: omeganuepsilon: Concerned (and brave)citizen =\= overzealous vigilanteThe problem is, omega, for every one of the former, there's about 30 or 40 of the later. The Zimmerman case is a good example of this. The whole situation could have been avoided had he been a witness, rather than tried to intervene.
hardinparamedic: The problem is, omega, for every one of the former, there's about 30 or 40 of the later
Enemabag Jones: Well there is part of the problem.
omeganuepsilon: Citation ne--- Citation impossible. There are two equally possible theories with the facts we have.
omeganuepsilon: Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to say "could have been avoided" for millions of reasons, and none of them have any relevancy as to our current objective on deciding if he's guilty or not.
dramboxf: And in some places (NYC, for example) they have/had all of those. NYCEMS used to be a mixed third-service with volunteer hospital-based ALS as well, as well as some BLS-only ALL-vollie services (Hetzolah, for the Hasidic community.) FDNY had ZERO desire to do EMS at all.Then some bean counter at city hall said, in essence, "Hey, the new fire codes and building codes and enforcement have resulted in a LOT of $90,000/yr firefighters sitting around not doing a lot. Maybe we should close firehouses and consolidate companies."All of a sudden, you have the EMS Bureau of FDNY, which took over the Health & Hospitals third-service EMS in 1995. They still have the volunteer-hospital-ALS units and Hetzolah, but FDNY runs about 1200 ALS & BLS ambulance shifts a day.
omeganuepsilon: the real hero's go unsung.
hardinparamedic: The best examples I can use of a Fire/EMS combination department that I would be proud to be a part of are Seattle Fire and Nashville Fire.
MNguy: downstairs: I think its pretty common knowledge that you're not allowed to have red and/or blue flashing lights. Yellow is for non-cop/fireman/ambulance trucks. Yellow lights anyone can have.You're a dipshiat if you have any kind of lights on your car that aren't factory.
dramboxf: I will ask a LEO buddy of mine what can get your CA POST ticket yanked. There might be automatic criteria (being convicted of a felony would do it, since you can't have a firearm and you need a firearm to be a cop, for example) or it might be done via a DA's request via a judge for a cop who bounces from department to department one step of IA.Although, I have to say, where I live that's not an issue. Here in Sonoma, it you get a rep as a problem child, no one will hire you. The most significant officer-malfeasance issue we've had locally in the last 12 or so years was a Junior College Police Department cop stealing money from the machines that collect parking fees for the JC lots for those people who don't have a pass.
hardinparamedic: I tend to assume the lowest common denominator until proven otherwise, and that way I'm always pleasantly surprised at people, and never disappointed.
Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Maul555: Why didn't they charge him with brandishing a gun too?Because lifting your shirt isn't brandishing.
hardinparamedic: Pulling someone over on the side of the road for reasonable cause of drunk driving based on observed behavior is not the same, legally, as someone witnessing an actual crime in the act and intervening to perform a citizens arrest, especially if that happens on private property and is done by a security guard legally employed and on duty with that business.
"Hey, hey, papito, how are you doing? Come here, come with me -- this is the guy that stole the other day -- no, no, you're going on the floor! You're going on the floor, you're going on the floor. Tell my brother to call to police!" Ubiera-Cruz said as he took the man down.
fredklein: IF you actually read the other article, the guy was not caught shoplifting. He supposedly was seen shoplifting the previous day:
Abox: So if she panicked and tried to overpower the stranger with the gun who just chased her down, he'd have been justified in shooting her. Or so I hear.
hardinparamedic: Part of the problem is that there is no pay-for-performance model in EMS - it's all pay for transport. Medicare, medicaid, and the insurance companies will only pay if you transport someone.
Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Yet another responsible gun owner.
finnished: hardinparamedic: Part of the problem is that there is no pay-for-performance model in EMS - it's all pay for transport. Medicare, medicaid, and the insurance companies will only pay if you transport someone.Does this vary per location? When my wife had a severe allergic attack, and she thought her throat was closing shut, we called the ambulance. But by the time they got in, the attack seemed to be over, and she was better, so they didn't take her to the hospital. We didn't receive a bill, and if I remember correctly they didn't ask for insurance information either. Not that we have a stellar insurance anyway. But our town does use a volunteer ambulance force.
hardinparamedic: And if you had actually linked the article from the other day, I might have actually read it.
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