NFA: Shame they didn't have info on the make and caliber.
h2ogate: This would be a lot more interesting if there were explanations of the bullet designs.
The one on the left looks like a glaser safety slug.
cynicalbastard: realityVSperception: Actually, I answered my own question as who 'should have known' the Shermans were under gunned. The whole TD strategy was championed by General Lesley James McNair. He was a highly decorated artillery officer in WWI who was the Chief of Staff of GHQ, U.S. Army from July 1940 to March 1942, and In March 1942, General McNair became Commanding General, Army Ground Forces. Not too suprisingly he favored anti tank guns and then tank destroyers over heavy tanks and thwarted several attempts to up gun the Shermans. He also made some poor choices in his subordinates, as one of his hand picked generals was responsible for Kasserine pass in Africa.As a result of his belief in the tank destroyer doctrine, McNair was instrumental in obstructing the production of the M26 Pershing. McNair saw no need for a heavy tank and believed that tank versus tank duels were "unsound and unnecessary". McNair would agree only to the production of the 76mm M4 Sherman which he believed were capable of handling the Tiger I tank that had appeared in late 1942. Gen. Jacob Devers, the main proponent for the M26, had to go over McNair's head to Gen. Marshall to begin production of the M26.He also caused problems in other areas like training. Here's the wiki link-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesley_J._McNairSounds like McNair should've been awarded the Knights Cross, with oak leaves and clusters. By Hitler.
Norfolking Chance: realityVSperception: So the alternative argument could be made that strategically more tank destroyers should have been built and deployed, and tactically been better used to engage enemy armor instead of Shermans. I believe both the actions cited above occured under Patton's command, by far the best tank general the Americans had. Perhaps other allied commanders just used ham fisted tactics that put Shermans in unwinnable situations, resulting excessive losses?Again, I agree it would have been better if all the Shermans had better guns. I think you are downplaying the effort that would have taken, and are overlooking that the tank vs tank role was not suppose to be fought by the Sherman in the first place.I'd also disagree with your comments about the T-34. The T34C with its 76mm gun shocked the Germans when it was 1st encountered, and the later T34-85's 85mm gun certainly was a match for later German armor. The T34's combat effectiveness was limited by other factors like lack of radios, no power turret transverse, poor sights, and the Russian practice of fighting 'buttoned up' reducing the commander's visability. Often overlooked, the Germans had superb optics for their sights, and by fighting with the commander exposed, could rapidly engage, hit and kill Russian tanks well before the Russians could return fire effectively.I know how the Sherman was an "infantry" tank but by '43 it should of been clear that it was an out dated concept and that any tank that couldn't engage and destroy enemy tanks was a liability. This was shown in North Africa time and time again on both sides. Having to wait for tank destroyers/aircover while your tank and the supporting infantry are under fire from other tanks that you can't stop is not a good doctrine. And thats assuming there are any tank destroyers around.The British army had a Firefly mixed in with Cromwells and Shermans and that gave a much better force mix as each tank platoon had a much better chance of dealing wi ...
Skunkwolf: Lt_Ryan: RoyBatty: Marcus Aurelius: RoyBatty: Marcus Aurelius: My father was a B-17 navigator out of northern Italy.Hey, mine too. 8th Air Force England.The Eighth. Mine too. Did you get his jacket?Nah, he came back, and rarely said anything about it. We have a couple of photos of him in uniform, but that's about it. But he kept in touch with his crew, and their captain put together the logs of all their missions and sent everyone copies -- that's pretty interesting reading, especially, IIRC, sightings of the ME-163, and after the war his aircraft traveling through Libya. But that's about all we have.After the war he wouldn't get into another plane until the 70s when my mom convinced him to fly in a 727 back and forth to Vegas with her.My grandfather was a B17 pilot, 8th AF 303BG. He also never flew again after the war. The 303rd has a site with mission reports, pictures and other material. I starting reading the reports and then a few books in my mid twenties, changed my perspective when pretty much every member of the crews mentioned were younger than I was.Thank you for what your Grandfather and Father did.I would say it was one of the most dangerous posts of the war.Grandfather was 1 Dywizja Pancerna.Nobody survived without scars, some ran deeper than most.
Glockenspiel Hero: The penetrator is something very hard and dense, usually either tungsten carbide or (in the case of the US) depleted uranium.
DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Spanky McStupid: [cdn.petapixel.com image 620x489]Image on the right was called a "buddy bullet": three rounds in one. Not very cost-effective.And the one in the middle...is that a NEEDLE in it? Wierd.
HotWingAgenda: She deliberately says the subjects were photographed inside a WWII bunker, and does not say they are WWII ammunition. What kind of f*cked up unit would have 900 different types of rounds in one bunker?
HotWingAgenda: amindofiron: There are international treaties (the Hague conventions specifically) that ban the use of expanding/hollow point ammo in warfare and the Geneva convention's ban on weapons that are expressly designed to maim (in this case that thing that looks like a glazer safety round).She said it was a Swiss WWII bunker. She didn't say the contents of the bunker were all from WWII. Even if she had, would you mind taking a stab at whether the Geneva Convention and all those Hague treaties happened before or after WWII? Go ahead, guess.
DreamyAltarBoy: Seeing these in cross section kinda makes makes me go: GAH! I can sort of get what a simple "slow" slug can do to a body, but some of these look like they're designed to make burger meat. Does anybody know what's up with that flechette?
AndreMA: basemetal: [cdn.petapixel.com image 620x515]The one on the left looks like a glaser safety slug.Doesn't look terribly safe to me
RoyBatty: Doing some quick googling, I thought he was the navigator, but he may have been the Flight Engineer. I know he had this split role and was also the top turret gunner and google suggests that means he was the Flight Engineer.
Molavian: I question the authenticity of this World War II ammo. I mean, basemetal posts a picture of a glaser safety slug and some sort of WSSM. I'm not sure how many plastic rounds they used for training during WWII, either.
Marcus Aurelius: RoyBatty: Marcus Aurelius: My father was a B-17 navigator out of northern Italy.Hey, mine too. 8th Air Force England.The Eighth. Mine too. Did you get his jacket?
Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.
When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.
Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.
You need to create an account to submit links or post comments.
Click here to submit a link.
Also on Fark
Submit a Link »
Copyright © 1999 - 2017 Fark, Inc | Last updated: Jul 24 2017 05:42:56
Runtime: 0.277 sec (276 ms)