If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(USA Today)   Hey, where the white women at?   (usatoday.com) divider line 200
    More: Interesting, George Zimmerman, Relay For Life, jury  
•       •       •

12763 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jun 2013 at 10:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



200 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-06-21 10:22:59 AM
I'm a little surprised they got all women
 
2013-06-21 10:23:56 AM
This makes me sad.  I see no chance of him being convicted.  And he should be, he really should be.
 
2013-06-21 10:24:33 AM
Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.
 
2013-06-21 10:25:01 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: I'm a little surprised they got all women



Every man they tried to interview was too busy posting on Fark about how he has sketched up some maps with timeline annotations that prove definitively what happened on the night in question.

Every man.
 
2013-06-21 10:25:22 AM
I thought all trials had to have 12 jurors unless it was strictly a civil action?  Is florida different?

(I googled, but on came up with same information)
 
2013-06-21 10:26:10 AM
I'd try my best to get out of that jury.  You're painting a big target on yourself and someone is going to be unhappy with the verdict.  Next thing you know you would have a busload of protesters on your front lawn.  Or worse.
 
2013-06-21 10:26:19 AM

abfalter: This makes me sad.  I see no chance of him being convicted.  And he should be, he really should be.


how do you know this.
 
2013-06-21 10:26:43 AM

gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.


Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.
 
2013-06-21 10:27:13 AM

abfalter: This makes me sad.  I see no chance of him being convicted.  And he should be, he really should be.


Exactly why you never belong on a jury.
 
2013-06-21 10:27:22 AM

abfalter: This makes me sad.  I see no chance of him being convicted.  And he should be, he really should be.


Oh, I don't know... I think if some large black man was smashing your head on the sidewalk, you would probably shoot him to.
 
2013-06-21 10:27:44 AM

Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.


Please don't call Zimmerman a "thug." That term carries racial connotations that are unpleasant to many.
 
2013-06-21 10:27:48 AM

abfalter: This makes me sad.  I see no chance of him being convicted.  And he should be, he really should be.


For defending himself from a  gangsta thug?

Nice, stay classy, libs.
 
2013-06-21 10:27:49 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: I'm a little surprised they got all women


I'm not, it almost guaranties Zimmerman will walk. After all, he killed a scary, black guy.
 
2013-06-21 10:28:55 AM

natazha: IdBeCrazyIf: I'm a little surprised they got all women

I'm not, it almost guaranties Zimmerman will walk. After all, he killed a scary, black guy.


He did. He did the world a favor by saving many, many people from drugs and violence.
 
2013-06-21 10:29:00 AM

gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.


Dont forget that he was carrying his grandfathers medicine to him, and going to make a donation to Mother Teresa's charity and ignore the beating.
 
2013-06-21 10:30:43 AM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Dont forget that he was carrying his grandfathers medicine to him, and going to make a donation to Mother Teresa's charity and ignore the beating.


Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy.  If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.
 
2013-06-21 10:31:37 AM

natazha: IdBeCrazyIf: I'm a little surprised they got all women

I'm not, it almost guaranties Zimmerman will walk. After all, he killed a scary, black guy.


I just didn't think they would be that obvious with it
 
2013-06-21 10:32:14 AM

gimmegimme: Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.

Please don't call Zimmerman a "thug." That term carries racial connotations that are unpleasant to many.


Treyvon  bought a house in that neighborhood?
 
2013-06-21 10:33:11 AM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.

Please don't call Zimmerman a "thug." That term carries racial connotations that are unpleasant to many.

Treyvon  bought a house in that neighborhood?


Martin had just as much right to be there as Zimmy.  Martin may indeed have bought a home there someday, but he was shot in the chest and killed at the age of 17.
 
2013-06-21 10:33:46 AM

gimmegimme: Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy. If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.



No, you don't.  The attack must be imminent.  There's no evidence Martin was attacked, or under imminent attack.
 
2013-06-21 10:35:48 AM

Phinn: gimmegimme: Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy. If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.

No, you don't.  The attack must be imminent.  There's no evidence Martin was attacked, or under imminent attack.


Martin knew he was being followed by some weirdo for quite some time, a man who was rolling in a vehicle and then got out on foot.  Was Zimmerman going to kidnap him?  Rape him?  He had no idea.  Martin tried to elude the stranger, but the man would not stop what turned out to be an armed pursuit.
 
2013-06-21 10:35:56 AM
gimmegimme:
Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.

Please don't call Zimmerman a "thug." That term carries racial connotations that are unpleasant to many.


Who, Hindus?
 
2013-06-21 10:36:48 AM

gimmegimme: Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.

Please don't call Zimmerman a "thug." That term carries racial connotations that are unpleasant to many.


How would that be relevent here?  "Thug" is derived from an Indian language, and nobody involved is Indian.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thug
 
2013-06-21 10:37:17 AM

gimmegimme: Martin knew he was being followed by some weirdo for quite some time, a man who was rolling in a vehicle and then got out on foot. Was Zimmerman going to kidnap him? Rape him? He had no idea. Martin tried to elude the stranger, but the man would not stop what turned out to be an armed pursuit.



Still not imminent.
 
2013-06-21 10:37:24 AM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: I thought all trials had to have 12 jurors unless it was strictly a civil action?  Is florida different?

(I googled, but on came up with same information)


From wiki
Supreme court rulled in Williams V. Florida that six juriors was sufficent and that "the 12-man panel" is not a necessary ingredient of "trial by jury" and is not a violation of the sizth amendment
 
2013-06-21 10:38:05 AM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: I thought all trials had to have 12 jurors unless it was strictly a civil action?  Is florida different?

(I googled, but on came up with same information)


Yea, I was confused by this as well.  Also loved this little tidbit:

"She also likes watching Bravo, episodes of the Real Housewives series, and is still adjusting to a calmer life in Florida."
 
2013-06-21 10:38:39 AM
gimmegimme:  .

Treyvon  bought a house in that neighborhood?

Martin had just as much right to be there as Zimmy.  Martin may indeed have bought a home there someday, but he was shot in the chest and killed at the age of 17.


You are debating a statement that was not made.  I have a right to walk the sidewalk in front of your house all night.  Does that give me ownership of your house?  No.

Martin may have walked on Mars one day.  I doubt it.   He was shot in the chest after assaulting someone.  Most astronauts do not have assault on their record.
 
2013-06-21 10:38:58 AM

No Such Agency: gimmegimme:
Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.

Please don't call Zimmerman a "thug." That term carries racial connotations that are unpleasant to many.

Who, Hindus?


jshine: gimmegimme: Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.

Please don't call Zimmerman a "thug." That term carries racial connotations that are unpleasant to many.

How would that be relevent here?  "Thug" is derived from an Indian language, and nobody involved is Indian.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thug


Wow...we're pretending that folks who throw the term "thug" around in Zimmy threads are implying that Martin was from India?

I guess that song about "strange fruit" could be referring to the mangoes that hang from the trees in Mumbai.
 
2013-06-21 10:39:10 AM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Dont forget that he was carrying his grandfathers medicine to him, and going to make a donation to Mother Teresa's charity and ignore the beating.


I thought he was casing housing to break into?
 
2013-06-21 10:40:11 AM
So tired of hearing these arguments,  Zimmerman sounds like a coward that got in way over his head pretending to be a badass.  At which point, Treyvon, after losing zimmerman, decided to confront the super sleuth, ended up attacking him (as evidenced by the wounds to the back of the scalp) and zimmerman shot him in self-defense.  Obviously, this is up for the jury to decide after hearing the evidence, but he'll likely walk (as he should), because being a wannabe badass isn't a crime. Just makes him a really disappointing human being.
 
2013-06-21 10:41:07 AM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme:  .

Treyvon  bought a house in that neighborhood?

Martin had just as much right to be there as Zimmy.  Martin may indeed have bought a home there someday, but he was shot in the chest and killed at the age of 17.

You are debating a statement that was not made.  I have a right to walk the sidewalk in front of your house all night.  Does that give me ownership of your house?  No.

Martin may have walked on Mars one day.  I doubt it.   He was shot in the chest after assaulting someone.  Most astronauts do not have assault on their record.


Then I guess George Zimmerman can never be an astronaut.
 
2013-06-21 10:41:41 AM
gimmegimme:  
Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy.  If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.


Interesting.   Where is your evidence that Mr Martin asked Mr Zimmerman to stop following him.
 
2013-06-21 10:43:28 AM
I see the Stormfront contingent is up early today.
 
2013-06-21 10:43:39 AM

gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy. If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.

No, you don't.  The attack must be imminent.  There's no evidence Martin was attacked, or under imminent attack.

Martin knew he was being followed by some weirdo for quite some time, a man who was rolling in a vehicle and then got out on foot.  Was Zimmerman going to kidnap him?  Rape him?  He had no idea.  Martin tried to elude the stranger, but the man would not stop what turned out to be an armed pursuit.


So if I think someone is maybe going to rape me or kidnap me I should A) move away from him preferably to an area with witnessess around or B) hide in the bushes then ambush him from behind and smash his head into the ground? or C) something in between A and B
 
2013-06-21 10:44:01 AM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme:  
Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy.  If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.


Interesting.   Where is your evidence that Mr Martin asked Mr Zimmerman to stop following him.


I never said he asked Zimmy to back off.  We just don't know for sure.  It is clear, however, that Martin took evasive maneuvers to get away from the weirdo who was following him for so long.  If I ride up alongside a woman who is walking on the sidewalk...then I get out of the car and follow her on foot...and she tries to get away from me and I continue pursuit...I'm probably going to have a conversation with some police.

You know, unless I shoot the woman in cold blood first.  Then I get a Band-Aid and head home.
 
2013-06-21 10:44:02 AM

Abuse Liability: So tired of hearing these arguments,  Zimmerman sounds like a coward that got in way over his head pretending to be a badass.  At which point, Treyvon, after losing zimmerman, decided to confront the super sleuth, ended up attacking him (as evidenced by the wounds to the back of the scalp) and zimmerman shot him in self-defense.  Obviously, this is up for the jury to decide after hearing the evidence, but he'll likely walk (as he should), because being a wannabe badass isn't a crime. Just makes him a really disappointing human being.


Bullshiat.
Zimmerman attacked HIM, as evidenced by the corpse.
 
2013-06-21 10:44:16 AM
I don't really see a problem with this, but I'm not sure if this represents a jury of his peers adequately.
 
2013-06-21 10:45:07 AM

bopis: gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy. If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.

No, you don't.  The attack must be imminent.  There's no evidence Martin was attacked, or under imminent attack.

Martin knew he was being followed by some weirdo for quite some time, a man who was rolling in a vehicle and then got out on foot.  Was Zimmerman going to kidnap him?  Rape him?  He had no idea.  Martin tried to elude the stranger, but the man would not stop what turned out to be an armed pursuit.

So if I think someone is maybe going to rape me or kidnap me I should A) move away from him preferably to an area with witnessess around or B) hide in the bushes then ambush him from behind and smash his head into the ground? or C) something in between A and B


Awesome job blaming the victim.  Isn't it sad that Zimmy put him in the situation where he had to make such a scary choice?
 
2013-06-21 10:46:26 AM
Zimmerman's gonna walk because he didnt break the law.  He's just a dickhead. A law abiding dick head.
 
2013-06-21 10:46:32 AM
Gun "rights" enthusiasts will be very angry when this guy is convicted of fulfilling their wet dreams.
 
2013-06-21 10:46:48 AM

MNguy: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Dont forget that he was carrying his grandfathers medicine to him, and going to make a donation to Mother Teresa's charity and ignore the beating.

I thought he was casing housing to break into?


I love these threads...

Martin was probably looking around at the houses because it was his first time there and he didn't know where he was going and Zimmerman misinterpreted it as a kid unnecesarily standing around in the rain casing the houses.
 
2013-06-21 10:48:15 AM

Abuse Liability: So tired of hearing these arguments,  Zimmerman sounds like a coward that got in way over his head pretending to be a badass.  At which point, Treyvon, after losing zimmerman, decided to confront the super sleuth, ended up attacking him (as evidenced by the wounds to the back of the scalp) and zimmerman shot him in self-defense.  Obviously, this is up for the jury to decide after hearing the evidence, but he'll likely walk (as he should), because being a wannabe badass isn't a crime. Just makes him a really disappointing human being.



I feel pretty much the same way. I think the popular consensus of Zimmerman as a wannabe cop is probably accurate. I just feel the need to defend him a little bit because of how thoroughly he was railroaded on this whole thing. From showing Martin's five year old picture over and over, to the doctored 911 tapes, to the professional race baiters stirring up trouble.


Both of these men were idiots. One is dead. It's Florida for Christ's sake. What do you exect?
 
2013-06-21 10:48:30 AM

occamswrist: MNguy: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Dont forget that he was carrying his grandfathers medicine to him, and going to make a donation to Mother Teresa's charity and ignore the beating.

I thought he was casing housing to break into?

I love these threads...

Martin was probably looking around at the houses because it was his first time there and he didn't know where he was going and Zimmerman misinterpreted it as a kid unnecesarily standing around in the rain casing the houses.


There's no proof at all that Martin was "looking around at the houses."  Zimmerman told different people different things.  In the Hannity interview, Zimmy said that Martin was suspicious because he wasn't walking home fast enough in the rain AND the kid was suspicious because he was skipping.
 
2013-06-21 10:49:54 AM

occamswrist: I love these threads...

Martin was probably looking around at the houses because it was his first time there and he didn't know where he was going and Zimmerman misinterpreted it as a kid unnecesarily standing around in the rain casing the houses.


Yep both of them made incorrect perceptions as to what was going on.  Its really too bad Zimmerman didn't just stay in his care and wait for the police.  Poor decision on his part, but still not illegal, just stupid.
 
2013-06-21 10:50:43 AM

megarian: I don't really see a problem with this, but I'm not sure if this represents a jury of his peers adequately.


Its a jury of his peers. Remember the phone recording where one of them screams like a girl?

/never actually listened to the tape
 
2013-06-21 10:51:44 AM

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: I see the Stormfront contingent is up early today.



When the facts aren't on your side, cry racism.


Go fark yourself with a rake.
 
2013-06-21 10:52:02 AM

jfivealive: occamswrist: I love these threads...

Martin was probably looking around at the houses because it was his first time there and he didn't know where he was going and Zimmerman misinterpreted it as a kid unnecesarily standing around in the rain casing the houses.

Yep both of them made incorrect perceptions as to what was going on.  Its really too bad Zimmerman didn't just stay in his care and wait for the police.  Poor decision on his part, but still not illegal, just stupid.


At the very least, I would just like Zim fans to admit that it's a really pussy move to pretend you're Dirty Harry and then shoot a kid in the chest when you're losing the fight you started.

It's like pushing over a row of motorcycles and then shooting all of the bikers with a flamethrower when you start getting your ass kicked.
 
2013-06-21 10:52:41 AM

roddack: Satan's Bunny Slippers: I thought all trials had to have 12 jurors unless it was strictly a civil action?  Is florida different?

(I googled, but on came up with same information)

From wiki
Supreme court rulled in Williams V. Florida that six juriors was sufficent and that "the 12-man panel" is not a necessary ingredient of "trial by jury" and is not a violation of the sizth amendment


thanks!
 
2013-06-21 10:53:00 AM

gimmegimme: occamswrist: MNguy: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Dont forget that he was carrying his grandfathers medicine to him, and going to make a donation to Mother Teresa's charity and ignore the beating.

I thought he was casing housing to break into?

I love these threads...

Martin was probably looking around at the houses because it was his first time there and he didn't know where he was going and Zimmerman misinterpreted it as a kid unnecesarily standing around in the rain casing the houses.

There's no proof at all that Martin was "looking around at the houses."  Zimmerman told different people different things.  In the Hannity interview, Zimmy said that Martin was suspicious because he wasn't walking home fast enough in the rain AND the kid was suspicious because he was skipping.


Skipping? News to me...but then all my knowledge about the case is from fark threads...
 
2013-06-21 10:54:11 AM

occamswrist: gimmegimme: occamswrist: MNguy: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Dont forget that he was carrying his grandfathers medicine to him, and going to make a donation to Mother Teresa's charity and ignore the beating.

I thought he was casing housing to break into?

I love these threads...

Martin was probably looking around at the houses because it was his first time there and he didn't know where he was going and Zimmerman misinterpreted it as a kid unnecesarily standing around in the rain casing the houses.

There's no proof at all that Martin was "looking around at the houses."  Zimmerman told different people different things.  In the Hannity interview, Zimmy said that Martin was suspicious because he wasn't walking home fast enough in the rain AND the kid was suspicious because he was skipping.

Skipping? News to me...but then all my knowledge about the case is from fark threads...


Here's the link.  Zimmy doesn't even have the common sense to say that he wished things hadn't happened the way they had, blah blah.
 
2013-06-21 10:54:43 AM

gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme:  
Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy.  If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.


Interesting.   Where is your evidence that Mr Martin asked Mr Zimmerman to stop following him.

I never said he asked Zimmy to back off.  We just don't know for sure.  It is clear, however, that Martin took evasive maneuvers to get away from the weirdo who was following him for so long.  If I ride up alongside a woman who is walking on the sidewalk...then I get out of the car and follow her on foot...and she tries to get away from me and I continue pursuit...I'm probably going to have a conversation with some police.

You know, unless I shoot the woman in cold blood first.  Then I get a Band-Aid and head home.


Well. why are you stating that someone refused to stop following him then.
Following that logic, a woman jogger can just shoot the male jogger 50 feet behind her on the track, She she didn't like him following her and she never communicated her displeasure to him.  Too bad, he should just know, and he kept on following her for a mile.
 
2013-06-21 10:57:45 AM
img.fark.net

When he was shot, Trayvon Martin was not the baby-faced boy in the photo, and the mugshot of George is from a criminal charge 7 years ago, later dropped. (new window)
 
2013-06-21 10:58:01 AM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme:  
Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy.  If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.


Interesting.   Where is your evidence that Mr Martin asked Mr Zimmerman to stop following him.

I never said he asked Zimmy to back off.  We just don't know for sure.  It is clear, however, that Martin took evasive maneuvers to get away from the weirdo who was following him for so long.  If I ride up alongside a woman who is walking on the sidewalk...then I get out of the car and follow her on foot...and she tries to get away from me and I continue pursuit...I'm probably going to have a conversation with some police.

You know, unless I shoot the woman in cold blood first.  Then I get a Band-Aid and head home.

Well. why are you stating that someone refused to stop following him then.
Following that logic, a woman jogger can just shoot the male jogger 50 feet behind her on the track, She she didn't like him following her and she never communicated her displeasure to him.  Too bad, he should just know, and he kept on following her for a mile.


Soooo...what you're saying is that we can't go around shooting each other?

It's fascinating that you're criticizing Martin for apparently not communicating his displeasure at being followed to Zimmy, but you're NOT criticizing Zimmy for conducting an armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot and shooting the target in the chest.
 
2013-06-21 10:58:32 AM

jehovahs witness protection: abfalter: This makes me sad.  I see no chance of him being convicted.  And he should be, he really should be.

Exactly why you never belong on a jury.


This!

Look, we don't know exactly how things went down.   abfalter has already made up his mind though/  It is up to the prosecution to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt though.  I bet  abfalter is one of those people who decries the death penalty because there's no way to take it back in case a mistake was made, but he's ready to execute Zimmerman based on his own prejudices.

Just based on what I know right now - and the case hasn't even been tried, nor have I sat in a courtroom and listened to all the evidence and testimony - I would have to vote not guilty because just based on what I know the case hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Zimmerman may be a racist wannabe cop although there is certainly quite a bit that suggests he's not racist.  OTOH, he does seem to be a hot head, but none of that proves he murdered Martin.

Drink?   Yeah, I'm way ahead of you all on that!  Cheers.

The really interesting question is how do you pick a jury who is in touch with reality that hasn't heard this story beaten to death already and already made up their mind one way or another?

If I were among the potential jurors I'd have to tell the judge that I've read about the case and see nothing that proves his guilt.  If  abfalter were honest he'd have to say he's already decided Zimmerman is guilty.  We'd both probably be excluded from the jury based on that.
 
2013-06-21 10:59:03 AM

gimmegimme: bopis: gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy. If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.

No, you don't.  The attack must be imminent.  There's no evidence Martin was attacked, or under imminent attack.

Martin knew he was being followed by some weirdo for quite some time, a man who was rolling in a vehicle and then got out on foot.  Was Zimmerman going to kidnap him?  Rape him?  He had no idea.  Martin tried to elude the stranger, but the man would not stop what turned out to be an armed pursuit.

So if I think someone is maybe going to rape me or kidnap me I should A) move away from him preferably to an area with witnessess around or B) hide in the bushes then ambush him from behind and smash his head into the ground? or C) something in between A and B

Awesome job blaming the victim.  Isn't it sad that Zimmy put him in the situation where he had to make such a scary choice?



You haven't proven that Martin was "the victim."  You're just assuming it.  That's called "bootstrapping."

"Putting someone in the position" of having to obey the law of self-defense is not a crime.  The law of self-defense still applies, all the time, even if you intensely dislike one of the parties involved.

You can't use force unless you reasonably believe an attack is imminent, and you still haven't proven that Martin used force on Zimmerman in response to an imminent attack..  Your personal feelings to the contrary are neither a form of evidence nor are they legally relevant.

And, the real kicker is that, even if Zimmerman had been the aggressor, Zimmerman STILL had the right to use lethal force because he had no opportunity to escape from the altercation, because he was pinned to the ground and having his head bashed into the sidewalk.
 
2013-06-21 10:59:04 AM
Juror B-51 sounded like they were trying to say all the right things to ensure a spot on the jury.Also,Zimmerman: Has the right to stand his ground.Martin: Same right? Nah. Let someone shoot him.
 
2013-06-21 10:59:42 AM

gimmegimme: Interesting.   Where is your evidence that Mr Martin asked Mr Zimmerman to stop following him.

I never said he asked Zimmy to back off.  We just don't know for sure.  It is clear, however, that Martin took evasive maneuvers to get away from the weirdo who was following him for so long.  If I ride up alongside a woman who is walking on the sidewalk...then I get out of the car and follow her on foot...and she tries to get away from me and I continue pursuit...I'm probably going to have a conversation with some police.

You know, unless I shoot the woman in cold blood first.  Then I get a Band-Aid and head home.


HAHA.  I just read the rest of your post.   Most women, they go run to open areas when threatened.
People up to no good, they go hide in the bushes.

Sometimes women will go hide in a dark place, with no lights.. maybe an old abandoned house and go find a closet, then they wait for the ominous music to start playing.  Those are called bad movies.
 
2013-06-21 11:01:56 AM

Phinn: gimmegimme: bopis: gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy. If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.

No, you don't.  The attack must be imminent.  There's no evidence Martin was attacked, or under imminent attack.

Martin knew he was being followed by some weirdo for quite some time, a man who was rolling in a vehicle and then got out on foot.  Was Zimmerman going to kidnap him?  Rape him?  He had no idea.  Martin tried to elude the stranger, but the man would not stop what turned out to be an armed pursuit.

So if I think someone is maybe going to rape me or kidnap me I should A) move away from him preferably to an area with witnessess around or B) hide in the bushes then ambush him from behind and smash his head into the ground? or C) something in between A and B

Awesome job blaming the victim.  Isn't it sad that Zimmy put him in the situation where he had to make such a scary choice?

You haven't proven that Martin was "the victim."  You're just assuming it.  That's called "bootstrapping."

"Putting someone in the position" of having to obey the law of self-defense is not a crime.  The law of self-defense still applies, all the time, even if you intensely dislike one of the parties involved.

You can't use force unless you reasonably believe an attack is imminent, and you still haven't proven that Martin used force on Zimmerman in response to an imminent attack..  Your personal feelings to the contrary are neither a form of evidence nor are they legally relevant.

And, the real kicker is that, even if Zimmerman had been the aggressor, Zimmerman STILL had the right to use lethal force because he had no opportunity to escape from the altercation, because he was pinned to the ground and having his head bashed into the sidewalk.


Who threw the first punch and how do you know?

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Interesting.   Where is your evidence that Mr Martin asked Mr Zimmerman to stop following him.

I never said he asked Zimmy to back off.  We just don't know for sure.  It is clear, however, that Martin took evasive maneuvers to get away from the weirdo who was following him for so long.  If I ride up alongside a woman who is walking on the sidewalk...then I get out of the car and follow her on foot...and she tries to get away from me and I continue pursuit...I'm probably going to have a conversation with some police.

You know, unless I shoot the woman in cold blood first.  Then I get a Band-Aid and head home.

HAHA.  I just read the rest of your post.   Most women, they go run to open areas when threatened.
People up to no good, they go hide in the bushes.

Sometimes women will go hide in a dark place, with no lights.. maybe an old abandoned house and go find a closet, then they wait for the ominous music to start playing.  Those are called bad movies.


You are making my point.  Why criticize Martin for his ineptitude at getting away from the man who shot him?  Remember...no one HAD to be shot that night.
 
2013-06-21 11:02:13 AM
erry thred is troll thred

for teh lulz
 
2013-06-21 11:04:32 AM

gimmegimme: Who threw the first punch and how do you know?



I don't know.  No one knows (based on the evidence released so far).

Since Zimmerman is presumed innocent, and the evidence is inconclusive, he cannot be convicted.

Pretty simple, really.
 
2013-06-21 11:06:34 AM

Phinn: gimmegimme: Who threw the first punch and how do you know?

I don't know.  No one knows (based on the evidence released so far).

Since Zimmerman is presumed innocent, and the evidence is inconclusive, he cannot be convicted.

Pretty simple, really.


I just don't understand how so many Farkers are gleeful that a "thug" is dead.  They bend over backwards to apply zero responsibility to the man who shot the unarmed teenager.  I have no idea where the glee comes from.
 
2013-06-21 11:06:36 AM

gimmegimme: At the very least, I would just like Zim fans to admit that it's a really pussy move to pretend you're Dirty Harry and then shoot a kid in the chest when you're losing the fight you started.


Where is your evidence that one person started assaulting the other?    If it is just in your mind, it is irrelevant.
 
2013-06-21 11:07:17 AM

gimmegimme: Remember...no one HAD to be shot that night.



Everything you say on these threads is wrong.  Wrong factually.  Wrong legally.

Here's the bottom line -- There is insufficient evidence to rebut the presumption that Zimmerman reasonably believed he HAD to shoot Martin to stop Martin's use of force against him.
 
2013-06-21 11:07:20 AM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: At the very least, I would just like Zim fans to admit that it's a really pussy move to pretend you're Dirty Harry and then shoot a kid in the chest when you're losing the fight you started.

Where is your evidence that one person started assaulting the other?    If it is just in your mind, it is irrelevant.


If you look at the autopsy, you'll find that Martin was shot in the chest at intermediate range.
 
2013-06-21 11:10:34 AM

Phinn: gimmegimme: Remember...no one HAD to be shot that night.

Everything you say on these threads is wrong.  Wrong factually.  Wrong legally.

Here's the bottom line -- There is insufficient evidence to rebut the presumption that Zimmerman reasonably believed he HAD to shoot Martin to stop Martin's use of force against him.


If Zimmy had followed the advice of the 911 operator...no one would have been shot.  If Zimmy hadn't decided he was going to play lawman...no one would have been shot.   If Zimmy hadn't gotten out of the car to continue his armed pursuit on foot...no one would have been shot.  If Zimmy had waited in his car for the cops to arrive...no one would have been shot.   If Zimmy hadn't followed his prey between the houses...no one would have been shot.

Please admit that you can at least see how Martin could have been scared of the creepy weirdo who was following him around for so long in a vehicle and then on foot.
 
2013-06-21 11:11:22 AM
gimmegimme: ...blah blah blah...

It's fascinating that you're criticizing Martin for apparently not communicating his displeasure at being followed to Zimmy, but you're NOT criticizing Zimmy for conducting an armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot and shooting the target in the chest.


Reading all of your comments, you seem to have been there and saw the entire thing unfold. Have you given your deposition yet? This could be a real game breaker!!!

/shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
 
2013-06-21 11:12:51 AM
If he had skittles, you must acquittles.

/Dude had tea, set Zimmy free.
 
2013-06-21 11:13:08 AM

James_Corn: gimmegimme: ...blah blah blah...

It's fascinating that you're criticizing Martin for apparently not communicating his displeasure at being followed to Zimmy, but you're NOT criticizing Zimmy for conducting an armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot and shooting the target in the chest.

Reading all of your comments, you seem to have been there and saw the entire thing unfold. Have you given your deposition yet? This could be a real game breaker!!!

/shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


Are you denying that Zimmy followed Martin in a vehicle and then on foot?  Are you denying that he was in armed pursuit?  Are you denying that Martin was shot in the chest?

U Sill E
 
2013-06-21 11:15:04 AM
 gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: At the very least, I would just like Zim fans to admit that it's a really pussy move to pretend you're Dirty Harry and then shoot a kid in the chest when you're losing the fight you started.

Where is your evidence that one person started assaulting the other?    If it is just in your mind, it is irrelevant.

If you look at the autopsy, you'll find that Martin was shot in the chest at intermediate range.


Well, why dont you post us a link?  I have never seen it.

What does that have to do with backing up your statement that Zimmerman started the battery?
An autopsy report, it just shows us who won.  We already know that one.

But just for giggle.  Fatty Mcfat was in fisticuffs lost,  somehow outgrappled and outran the football player.
then says, 'im gonna get you sukka 'and shoots Martinin the chest.  (why is Martin not running and thus, shot in the back?)

Hey, how far is 'intermediate range'?  That seems kind of vague.
 
2013-06-21 11:16:19 AM

occamswrist: megarian: I don't really see a problem with this, but I'm not sure if this represents a jury of his peers adequately.

Its a jury of his peers. Remember the phone recording where one of them screams like a girl?

/never actually listened to the tape


Okay, that was pretty funny. :)
 
2013-06-21 11:17:24 AM
So many people are going to freak when Zimmerman walks.
 
2013-06-21 11:18:05 AM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: At the very least, I would just like Zim fans to admit that it's a really pussy move to pretend you're Dirty Harry and then shoot a kid in the chest when you're losing the fight you started.

Where is your evidence that one person started assaulting the other?    If it is just in your mind, it is irrelevant.

If you look at the autopsy, you'll find that Martin was shot in the chest at intermediate range.

Well, why dont you post us a link?  I have never seen it.

What does that have to do with backing up your statement that Zimmerman started the battery?
An autopsy report, it just shows us who won.  We already know that one.

But just for giggle.  Fatty Mcfat was in fisticuffs lost,  somehow outgrappled and outran the football player.
then says, 'im gonna get you sukka 'and shoots Martinin the chest.  (why is Martin not running and thus, shot in the back?)

Hey, how far is 'intermediate range'?  That seems kind of vague.


Are your Google fingers broken? Zimmy shot Martin from "inches away from the teenager."
 
2013-06-21 11:19:23 AM

gimmegimme: Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.

Please don't call Zimmerman a "thug." That term carries racial connotations that are unpleasant to many.


That's just silly. Thug is not a racist term IMHO.
 
2013-06-21 11:25:05 AM
An all female jury, with half being minority?  This sounds like a farking setup.   I bet money the prosecutor's argument will go something like this; "Shot this child... more talking... This was somebody's son... more talking...  Defenseless child...  more talking... this childs mother... more talking... killed this mothers child ... more talking... Killed her son...  mothers grief... child... mother.... child... mother... child... mother... child... horrible racist child killing monster...
 
2013-06-21 11:25:52 AM

gimmegimme: If Zimmy had followed the advice of the 911 operator...no one would have been shot.



That's not part of the law of self-defense.

gimmegimme: If Zimmy hadn't decided he was going to play lawman...no one would have been shot.



That's not part of the law of self-defense.

gimmegimme: If Zimmy hadn't gotten out of the car to continue his armed pursuit on foot...no one would have been shot.



That's not part of the law of self-defense.

gimmegimme: If Zimmy had waited in his car for the cops to arrive...no one would have been shot.



That's not part of the law of self-defense.

gimmegimme: If Zimmy hadn't followed his prey between the houses...no one would have been shot.



You haven't proven he was "prey."  People who "prey" on others do not call the police on a recorded line and give them a play-by-play account of their activities and movements.  So, let's say Zimmerman "followed" Martin.  That fact is admitted.

Here, the evidence is that GZ was following Martin at such a distance that he lost sight of him.  That's not an "imminent" attack.

As to what happened exactly after the recorded call ended, when they came to a point when they were close enough that one could possibly pose an imminent threat to the other, there is no evidence as to exactly what happened, and thus no evidence to rebut the presumption that GZ acted in self-defense.

The only evidence that exists is in GZ's favor -- DeeDee the girlfriend has already stated that Martin decided to verbally confront GZ, did so by saying "Why are you following me?" and then violence followed.  Since she was on the phone, she has no means of determining who attacked whom.

gimmegimme: Please admit that you can at least see how Martin could have been scared of the creepy weirdo who was following him around for so long in a vehicle and then on foot.



Being "scared" is not enough to use force in self-defense.  The law says that a person must reasonably believe that force is necessary to prevent an imminent use of force.  (To use lethal force, the standard is the same, except that the threat must also be lethal in nature (i.e., pose a threat of death or serious injury)).

You have no evidence to prove that occurred.
 
2013-06-21 11:26:23 AM

gimmegimme: jfivealive: occamswrist: I love these threads...

Martin was probably looking around at the houses because it was his first time there and he didn't know where he was going and Zimmerman misinterpreted it as a kid unnecesarily standing around in the rain casing the houses.

Yep both of them made incorrect perceptions as to what was going on.  Its really too bad Zimmerman didn't just stay in his care and wait for the police.  Poor decision on his part, but still not illegal, just stupid.

At the very least, I would just like Zim fans to admit that it's a really pussy move to pretend you're Dirty Harry and then shoot a kid in the chest when you're losing the fight you started.

It's like pushing over a row of motorcycles and then shooting all of the bikers with a flamethrower when you start getting your ass kicked.


A few of us have said this.  Nobody likes the fact that the kid was shot (aside from the inevitable snarkfest that will arise from my comment).  The whole damn thing is tragic, but Zimmerman doesn't seem to be culpable, at least not from a legal standpoint. The idiot got in over his head pretending to be an X-man.
 
2013-06-21 11:26:51 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Hey, how far is 'intermediate range'? That seems kind of vague.



Anywhere from about 2 inches to 3 feet or so.
 
2013-06-21 11:26:56 AM
IronOcelot: So many people are going to freak when Zimmerman walks.

Just like OJ
 
2013-06-21 11:28:00 AM

Maul555: An all female jury, with half being minority?  This sounds like a farking setup.   I bet money the prosecutor's argument will go something like this; "Shot this child... more talking... This was somebody's son... more talking...  Defenseless child...  more talking... this childs mother... more talking... killed this mothers child ... more talking... Killed her son...  mothers grief... child... mother.... child... mother... child... mother... child... horrible racist child killing monster...


If the defense didn't think it benefited them somehow, they never would have allowed it.
 
2013-06-21 11:28:36 AM
I submitted this exact same headline yesterday.

You owe me, subby.
 
2013-06-21 11:30:31 AM
These threads bring out superior trolls.  Masters are at work here, my friends.
 
2013-06-21 11:30:39 AM
Given Martin's lifestyle at the time of the attack I feel really comfortable in concluding that society is much better off without him as a member.
 
2013-06-21 11:30:51 AM

Abuse Liability: gimmegimme: jfivealive: occamswrist: I love these threads...

Martin was probably looking around at the houses because it was his first time there and he didn't know where he was going and Zimmerman misinterpreted it as a kid unnecesarily standing around in the rain casing the houses.

Yep both of them made incorrect perceptions as to what was going on.  Its really too bad Zimmerman didn't just stay in his care and wait for the police.  Poor decision on his part, but still not illegal, just stupid.

At the very least, I would just like Zim fans to admit that it's a really pussy move to pretend you're Dirty Harry and then shoot a kid in the chest when you're losing the fight you started.

It's like pushing over a row of motorcycles and then shooting all of the bikers with a flamethrower when you start getting your ass kicked.

A few of us have said this.  Nobody likes the fact that the kid was shot (aside from the inevitable snarkfest that will arise from my comment).  The whole damn thing is tragic, but Zimmerman doesn't seem to be culpable, at least not from a legal standpoint. The idiot got in over his head pretending to be an X-man.


This is the middle ground I'm talking about.  When people say, "HAHA  the THUG got wut he deserrved...purple drank," they don't seem to be arguing from a place of openness and reason.

I can see how Zimmerman was scared because, however the altercation started in earnest, he was in a fight.  Unlike some Zim fans, I can also see how an unarmed 17-year-old kid would be skeeved out  by the weirdo who was following him around for so long.
 
2013-06-21 11:31:42 AM

Profedius: Given Martin's lifestyle at the time of the attack I feel really comfortable in concluding that society is much better off without him as a member.


Zimmerman was the one with the documented history of violence.
 
2013-06-21 11:32:07 AM

gimmegimme: Soooo...what you're saying is that we can't go around shooting each other?

It's fascinating that you're criticizing Martin for apparently not communicating his displeasure at being followed to Zimmy, but you're NOT criticizing Zimmy for conducting an armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot and shooting the target in the chest.


No.. I am not criticizing Martin.  I am criticizing you for asserting that the reason for assaulting Zimmerman was because clearly zimmerman would not stop following him.    I think it is fine to assault a person that follows you after you express that you do not like his behavior and you find it threatening.

I have no evidence that Martin demanded Zimmerman stop.  I have no evidence that Martin didnt hide in the bushes and give Zimmerman a donkey punch.
Neither do you.

'Armed pursuit' is loaded.  This makes it sound like someone hunted the other down 'like a dog'.
He was simply following someone and happened to be carrying.  That's it.

Calling someone a pussy for carrying is also loaded.
 
2013-06-21 11:33:15 AM

Magnanimous_J: Maul555: An all female jury, with half being minority?  This sounds like a farking setup.   I bet money the prosecutor's argument will go something like this; "Shot this child... more talking... This was somebody's son... more talking...  Defenseless child...  more talking... this childs mother... more talking... killed this mothers child ... more talking... Killed her son...  mothers grief... child... mother.... child... mother... child... mother... child... horrible racist child killing monster...

If the defense didn't think it benefited them somehow, they never would have allowed it.


I thought most of the jurors were white... I only remember them mention one as 'person of color' (which is pretty laughable in itself).  It did seem pretty straightforward as to which jurors were for which side (hint: the ones that the prosecution tried to dismiss should give you a fair indication)
 
2013-06-21 11:34:03 AM

IronOcelot: So many people are going to freak when Zimmerman walks.


Like the angry white gun enthusiasts who've been freaking out since Newtown?
 
2013-06-21 11:35:22 AM
None of us know all the facts in this case, so why do we keep angrily arguing about it?
 
2013-06-21 11:35:38 AM
Nutsac_Jim:

No.. I am not criticizing Martin.  I am criticizing you for asserting that the reason for assaulting Zimmerman was because clearly zimmerman would not stop following him.    I think it is fine to assault a person that follows you after you express that you do not like his behavior and you find it threatening.

You're putting too much of a burden on the victim.  An adult doesn't have to be told not to follow people around.  Adults understand that is unpleasant and suspicious behavior.  If I follow a 17-year-old woman in a vehicle and then on foot, the police will have a talk with me.

I have no evidence that Martin demanded Zimmerman stop.  I have no evidence that Martin didnt hide in the bushes and give Zimmerman a donkey punch.
Neither do you.

'Armed pursuit' is loaded.  This makes it sound like someone hunted the other down 'like a dog'.
He was simply following someone and happened to be carrying.  That's it.



Zimmy was armed.  He was clearly in pursuit.  I'm sorry if you don't like words.

Calling someone a pussy for carrying is also loaded.

No, a pussy starts a fistfight and then grabs his gun when he's losing.
 
2013-06-21 11:36:45 AM

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: I see the Stormfront contingent is up early today.


And the race-baiters.
 
2013-06-21 11:37:40 AM
So I guess the jury's menstrual cycles will all sync up then.

Kinda like in the Politics tab.
 
2013-06-21 11:38:41 AM

Phinn: Nutsac_Jim: Hey, how far is 'intermediate range'? That seems kind of vague.

Anywhere from about 2 inches to 3 feet or so.



To be more clear, "intermediate range" is determined by the existence or absence of powder and/or powder burns.

When a gun is fired, some powder exits along with the bullet.  Some of that powder is still burning as it exits, having reached a fresh supply of oxygen, and continues to burn for a microsecond.  This is the source of the muzzle flash you often see.  Different gun-barrel lengths and different ammunition produce different amounts of still-burning powder at the muzzle.

From the forensic examiner's perspective, if there is no powder at all found on the site of the GSW, then the shot must have been "at a distance."  The powder did not travel all the way to the target.  That varies, but will be at least a few feet away.

If the shot was made at contact, or at near-contact range, then that means the M.E. found a circular or crescent-shaped muzzle-scorch on the target.  The powder was still burning when it made contact.  If it was on skin, then burning powder will tattoo the skin - embed in the outer layer and make a distinctive mark.

"Intermediate" means that (a) there was powder found on the target, but (b) it was not still burning when it landed there.  Powder stops burning after about 2 inches, at most, from the muzzle of a gun, including the kind of gun GZ used.
 
2013-06-21 11:39:23 AM

airsupport: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: I see the Stormfront contingent is up early today.

And the race-baiters.


As I already pointed out, "thug" is not a racially loaded term.  It stands for

Totally
Happy
Undergraduate
Geologist.

///I guess that's why some folks claim Martin was interested in rocks.
 
2013-06-21 11:40:38 AM

Phinn: Phinn: Nutsac_Jim: Hey, how far is 'intermediate range'? That seems kind of vague.

Anywhere from about 2 inches to 3 feet or so.

To be more clear, "intermediate range" is determined by the existence or absence of powder and/or powder burns.

When a gun is fired, some powder exits along with the bullet.  Some of that powder is still burning as it exits, having reached a fresh supply of oxygen, and continues to burn for a microsecond.  This is the source of the muzzle flash you often see.  Different gun-barrel lengths and different ammunition produce different amounts of still-burning powder at the muzzle.

From the forensic examiner's perspective, if there is no powder at all found on the site of the GSW, then the shot must have been "at a distance."  The powder did not travel all the way to the target.  That varies, but will be at least a few feet away.

If the shot was made at contact, or at near-contact range, then that means the M.E. found a circular or crescent-shaped muzzle-scorch on the target.  The powder was still burning when it made contact.  If it was on skin, then burning powder will tattoo the skin - embed in the outer layer and make a distinctive mark.

"Intermediate" means that (a) there was powder found on the target, but (b) it was not still burning when it landed there.  Powder stops burning after about 2 inches, at most, from the muzzle of a gun, including the kind of gun GZ used.


Wow.  Those are great descriptions.  That kind of wound sounds terrible.  Kinda makes me wonder why some folks complain about Zimmy's ouchies.
 
2013-06-21 11:41:36 AM

gimmegimme: It's fascinating that you're criticizing Martin for apparently not communicating his displeasure at being followed to Zimmy, but you're NOT criticizing Zimmy for conducting an armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot and shooting the target in the chest.


I'm going to criticize Martin for hiding behind peoples houses.  Why? Because that is not what I would do.
Would I have followed Martin?  Nope.  Just not my style.    Should Zimmerman be guilty of manslaughter.  Probably.

Murder... not a chance.
 
2013-06-21 11:42:50 AM

Magnanimous_J: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: I see the Stormfront contingent is up early today.


When the facts aren't on your side, cry racism.


Go fark yourself with a rake.



Looks to me like he targeted him because he was black.  Evidence is the racial slurs(supposedly unintelligible)  in the 911 call.  If it was a 17 yo white kid wearing his letter jacket Z would have headed home to watch reruns of Cops and read the latest Guns and Ammo.

Z was told not to pursue from police and he did anyway.  That's why this kid id dead.
 
2013-06-21 11:43:38 AM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: It's fascinating that you're criticizing Martin for apparently not communicating his displeasure at being followed to Zimmy, but you're NOT criticizing Zimmy for conducting an armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot and shooting the target in the chest.

I'm going to criticize Martin for hiding behind peoples houses.  Why? Because that is not what I would do.
Would I have followed Martin?  Nope.  Just not my style.    Should Zimmerman be guilty of manslaughter.  Probably.

Murder... not a chance.


Please prove that Martin was "hiding behind people's houses."

I just want the case to be dealt with in a fair manner by our criminal justice system.  Some folks don't even think Zimmy should be on trial and that he should be given the key to the city for flushing a Totally Happy Undergraduate Geologist down the drain.
 
2013-06-21 11:44:21 AM

gimmegimme: Are your Google fingers broken? Zimmy shot Martin from "inches away from the teenager."


That is grappling distance.  That is hardly 'hunt him down and kill him distance'
 
2013-06-21 11:46:39 AM
Jeez you people, stupid questions and statements all over the place but nobody has asked the important question.


Are any of the women hot?
 
2013-06-21 11:47:17 AM

gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: At the very least, I would just like Zim fans to admit that it's a really pussy move to pretend you're Dirty Harry and then shoot a kid in the chest when you're losing the fight you started.

Where is your evidence that one person started assaulting the other?    If it is just in your mind, it is irrelevant.

If you look at the autopsy, you'll find that Martin was shot in the chest at intermediate range.

Well, why dont you post us a link?  I have never seen it.

What does that have to do with backing up your statement that Zimmerman started the battery?
An autopsy report, it just shows us who won.  We already know that one.

But just for giggle.  Fatty Mcfat was in fisticuffs lost,  somehow outgrappled and outran the football player.
then says, 'im gonna get you sukka 'and shoots Martinin the chest.  (why is Martin not running and thus, shot in the back?)

Hey, how far is 'intermediate range'?  That seems kind of vague.

Are your Google fingers broken? Zimmy shot Martin from "inches away from the teenager."


How does being 'inches away from the teenager' prove who started the assault?
 
2013-06-21 11:48:47 AM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: At the very least, I would just like Zim fans to admit that it's a really pussy move to pretend you're Dirty Harry and then shoot a kid in the chest when you're losing the fight you started.

Where is your evidence that one person started assaulting the other?    If it is just in your mind, it is irrelevant.

If you look at the autopsy, you'll find that Martin was shot in the chest at intermediate range.

Well, why dont you post us a link?  I have never seen it.

What does that have to do with backing up your statement that Zimmerman started the battery?
An autopsy report, it just shows us who won.  We already know that one.

But just for giggle.  Fatty Mcfat was in fisticuffs lost,  somehow outgrappled and outran the football player.
then says, 'im gonna get you sukka 'and shoots Martinin the chest.  (why is Martin not running and thus, shot in the back?)

Hey, how far is 'intermediate range'?  That seems kind of vague.

Are your Google fingers broken? Zimmy shot Martin from "inches away from the teenager."

How does being 'inches away from the teenager' prove who started the assault?


Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted.  They're forgetting the gunshot wound in his chest.
 
2013-06-21 11:48:48 AM
Poor lil trayvon is so innocent. i'm surprised he wasn't wearing a halo.

moonbattery.com
 
2013-06-21 11:50:35 AM
When did "race baiter" become such a favorite term among white-power enthusiasts?

Did that come from AM radio?
 
2013-06-21 11:53:06 AM

jaytkay: When did "race baiter" become such a favorite term among white-power enthusiasts?

Did that come from AM radio?


When it became a way of living for the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. It's right up there with extortion and prevarication.
 
2013-06-21 11:53:21 AM

RisaTravelAgent: Looks to me like he targeted him because he was black. Evidence is the racial slurs(supposedly unintelligible) in the 911 call. If it was a 17 yo white kid wearing his letter jacket Z would have headed home to watch reruns of Cops and read the latest Guns and Ammo.


I don't agree with you, but it's completely conjecture on either of our parts to argue it one way or the other.
 
2013-06-21 11:58:07 AM

gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy. If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.

No, you don't.  The attack must be imminent.  There's no evidence Martin was attacked, or under imminent attack.

Martin knew he was being followed by some weirdo for quite some time, a man who was rolling in a vehicle and then got out on foot.  Was Zimmerman going to kidnap him?  Rape him?  He had no idea.  Martin tried to elude the stranger, but the man would not stop what turned out to be an armed pursuit.


If Martin felt he was under duress. Why did he not scream and yell as loud as he could? It was easily within earshot of several houses.

Subconsciously, most people that are knowingly doing wrong will try not to draw attention to themselves. Even while under duress.
 
2013-06-21 11:59:04 AM

Magnanimous_J: RisaTravelAgent: Looks to me like he targeted him because he was black. Evidence is the racial slurs(supposedly unintelligible) in the 911 call. If it was a 17 yo white kid wearing his letter jacket Z would have headed home to watch reruns of Cops and read the latest Guns and Ammo.

I don't agree with you, but it's completely conjecture on either of our parts to argue it one way or the other.


Essentially everything in these threads is conjecture

But yet everyone seems to have the idea that they've got all the facts and the other side is operating solely on emotion and bias
 
2013-06-21 12:00:36 PM

gimmegimme: Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted.  They're forgetting the gunshot wound in his chest.


Who are these Zim fans?

I know of no people who assert that Zimmerman did not kill Martin, and that it was the one armed man.

Just because someone brought a fist to a gunfight, does not prove who started the assault.

The fact that it was mere inches, combined with the fact that they were grappling, leads me to believe that Zimmerman did not hunt Martin down to kill him.  (Since you claim Zimmerman was a pussy, then I will assert that pussies will shoot someone before they get too close)

Was Zimmerman retarded?  To me, yes.  I would not have put myself in any position for someone to come grapple me.    Being a retard is not the same as intentionally murdering someone.
 
2013-06-21 12:00:37 PM

gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.


Actually "Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail" and it's not as innocent as you might think. He bought ingredients for a drug cocktail.
 
2013-06-21 12:01:59 PM

RisaTravelAgent: Looks to me like he targeted him because he was black. Evidence is the racial slurs(supposedly unintelligible) in the 911 call. If it was a 17 yo white kid wearing his letter jacket Z would have headed home to watch reruns of Cops and read the latest Guns and Ammo.

Z was told not to pursue from police and he did anyway. That's why this kid id dead.



1. Being racist is not a crime, nor does it deprive you of the right to self-defense, nor is it even relevant in a self-defense case.  There is no law against assuming blacks are more likely to commit crimes.  GZ was not a government agent, and had no obligation whatsoever to go about his life in a race-neutral way.  The law of self-defense applies to everyone, whether they are die-hard racist or the purest-hearted of libby libs.

2. What he was "told by the police" is also not relevant.

  a. GZ was not given an order about what to do or not do,

  b. Even if he had be so "ordered," GZ was not legally obligated to follow the instructions of a police telephone operator, and

  c. There is no evidence that he did not, in fact, actually stop pursuing Martin at that very moment.  Based on the recorded call, he said, "OK" and stopped running.  The altercation occurred very close to that spot only moments later.

Just like gimmegimme, everything you've said is wrong.
 
2013-06-21 12:01:59 PM
This is the link you're looking for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ-ISsDm8M
 
2013-06-21 12:02:55 PM

gimmegimme: If Zimmy had followed the advice of the 911 operator...no one would have been shot


If Martin didnt get out of bed that morning, he would not have been shot.  Both just as irrelevant.

Besides, the 911 operator did not tell him to stay in his car.
 
2013-06-21 12:04:09 PM
gimmegimme:
Wow...we're pretending that folks who throw the term "thug" around in Zimmy threads are implying that Martin was from India?

I guess that song about "strange fruit" could be referring to the mangoes that hang from the trees in Mumbai.


Don't look at me, I was just being snarky.  I don't think Zimmerman is a crazed racist who was hunting for blacks to murder, and I don't think Martin was doing anything illegal that merited being accosted with a gun.

I just think this whole tragedy could have been easily avoided if certain people who are not police hadn't been driving around armed and trying to act like police.
 
2013-06-21 12:09:29 PM

gimmegimme: Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted.


Nutsac_Jim: I know of no people who assert that Zimmerman did not kill Martin


Is that an ignorant response or intentional dishonesty?
 
2013-06-21 12:10:15 PM

gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim:

No.. I am not criticizing Martin.  I am criticizing you for asserting that the reason for assaulting Zimmerman was because clearly zimmerman would not stop following him.    I think it is fine to assault a person that follows you after you express that you do not like his behavior and you find it threatening.

You're putting too much of a burden on the victim.  An adult doesn't have to be told not to follow people around.  Adults understand that is unpleasant and suspicious behavior.  If I follow a 17-year-old woman in a vehicle and then on foot, the police will have a talk with me.

I have no evidence that Martin demanded Zimmerman stop.  I have no evidence that Martin didnt hide in the bushes and give Zimmerman a donkey punch.
Neither do you.

'Armed pursuit' is loaded.  This makes it sound like someone hunted the other down 'like a dog'.
He was simply following someone and happened to be carrying.  That's it.


Zimmy was armed.  He was clearly in pursuit.  I'm sorry if you don't like words.

Calling someone a pussy for carrying is also loaded.

No, a pussy starts a fistfight and then grabs his gun when he's losing.



Sure was, right up to the point when he agreed with the operator that he didn't have to do that, gave up pursuit and was circling back to his truck.  You know, right before Martin jumped him and got shot for initiating a physical confrontation.

Now, I don't know that this actually happened, but it does appear just a likely as the scenario you've put out today, so I thought I'd contribute.

/making up stuff and pretending it's true is fun!
 
2013-06-21 12:12:12 PM

Space Wizard: gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy. If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.

No, you don't.  The attack must be imminent.  There's no evidence Martin was attacked, or under imminent attack.

Martin knew he was being followed by some weirdo for quite some time, a man who was rolling in a vehicle and then got out on foot.  Was Zimmerman going to kidnap him?  Rape him?  He had no idea.  Martin tried to elude the stranger, but the man would not stop what turned out to be an armed pursuit.

If Martin felt he was under duress. Why did he not scream and yell as loud as he could? It was easily within earshot of several houses.

Subconsciously, most people that are knowingly doing wrong will try not to draw attention to themselves. Even while under duress.


Way to blame the dead kid for not dealing with his stalker in the way you think he should have.

No Such Agency: gimmegimme:
Wow...we're pretending that folks who throw the term "thug" around in Zimmy threads are implying that Martin was from India?

I guess that song about "strange fruit" could be referring to the mangoes that hang from the trees in Mumbai.

Don't look at me, I was just being snarky.  I don't think Zimmerman is a crazed racist who was hunting for blacks to murder, and I don't think Martin was doing anything illegal that merited being accosted with a gun.

I just think this whole tragedy could have been easily avoided if certain people who are not police hadn't been driving around armed and trying to act like police.


Okay, cool.  I like snark.  (And I'm sad that someone brought up the totally not-racist purple drank bullshiat.)
 
2013-06-21 12:13:10 PM

natazha: IdBeCrazyIf: I'm a little surprised they got all women

I'm not, it almost guaranties Zimmerman will walk. After all, he killed a scary, black guy.


what makes you think Trayvon wasn't 'a scary, black guy '? Were you there that night?
I may be wrong but I don't think Trayvon is a 5 ft nothing 99 ibs weakling who mannerism is that of Larry from the Stooges and speaks impeccable Shakesphearean English with like manners to boot..
 
2013-06-21 12:13:50 PM

KrustyKitten: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim:

No.. I am not criticizing Martin.  I am criticizing you for asserting that the reason for assaulting Zimmerman was because clearly zimmerman would not stop following him.    I think it is fine to assault a person that follows you after you express that you do not like his behavior and you find it threatening.

You're putting too much of a burden on the victim.  An adult doesn't have to be told not to follow people around.  Adults understand that is unpleasant and suspicious behavior.  If I follow a 17-year-old woman in a vehicle and then on foot, the police will have a talk with me.

I have no evidence that Martin demanded Zimmerman stop.  I have no evidence that Martin didnt hide in the bushes and give Zimmerman a donkey punch.
Neither do you.

'Armed pursuit' is loaded.  This makes it sound like someone hunted the other down 'like a dog'.
He was simply following someone and happened to be carrying.  That's it.


Zimmy was armed.  He was clearly in pursuit.  I'm sorry if you don't like words.

Calling someone a pussy for carrying is also loaded.

No, a pussy starts a fistfight and then grabs his gun when he's losing.


Sure was, right up to the point when he agreed with the operator that he didn't have to do that, gave up pursuit and was circling back to his truck.  You know, right before Martin jumped him and got shot for initiating a physical confrontation.

Now, I don't know that this actually happened, but it does appear just a likely as the scenario you've put out today, so I thought I'd contribute.

/making up stuff and pretending it's true is fun!


If following someone for several minutes in a vehicle and then on foot does not qualify as "pursuit"...well, maybe English is not your first language.
 
2013-06-21 12:15:08 PM

SuperNinjaToad: natazha: IdBeCrazyIf: I'm a little surprised they got all women

I'm not, it almost guaranties Zimmerman will walk. After all, he killed a scary, black guy.

what makes you think Trayvon wasn't 'a scary, black guy '? Were you there that night?
I may be wrong but I don't think Trayvon is a 5 ft nothing 99 ibs weakling who mannerism is that of Larry from the Stooges and speaks impeccable Shakesphearean English with like manners to boot..


You can find the actual measurements of Martin's height and weight in the autopsy report that was completed by the coroner.  The weight may be a little bit off, what with all the blood Martin lost.
 
2013-06-21 12:16:31 PM
Regardless of the outcome Zim will go down in history as a murderer and a coward. His life is still ruined if he walks. Although not quite as ruined as Martin's.
 
2013-06-21 12:17:07 PM
What I'm gathering from this thread is that a large number of people find it totally normal for grown-ass men to stalk minors.

When did FARK become Reddit?
 
2013-06-21 12:19:18 PM

ColdFusion: What I'm gathering from this thread is that a large number of people find it totally normal for grown-ass men to stalk minors.

When did FARK become Reddit?


Whoa!  Whoa.  Zimmerman is a brave hero for following around a teenager who was walking too slowly and skipping at the same time.  You would want to see how that works, too!
 
2013-06-21 12:19:24 PM

jaytkay: gimmegimme: Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted.

Nutsac_Jim: I know of no people who assert that Zimmerman did not kill Martin

Is that an ignorant response or intentional dishonesty?


OK.  Show me one person post in this thread or some other thread that says
that the one armed man killed Treyvon Martin, not Zimmerman.
 
2013-06-21 12:19:44 PM

ColdFusion: What I'm gathering from this thread is that a large number of people find it totally normal for grown-ass men to stalk minors.

When did FARK become Reddit?


No one is saying its normal but the argument can be made that following him was legal.
 
2013-06-21 12:22:51 PM

tblax: ColdFusion: What I'm gathering from this thread is that a large number of people find it totally normal for grown-ass men to stalk minors.

When did FARK become Reddit?

No one is saying its normal but the argument can be made that following him was legal.


img.fark.net

What does "lurking" even mean?
 
2013-06-21 12:23:43 PM

gimmegimme: Profedius: Given Martin's lifestyle at the time of the attack I feel really comfortable in concluding that society is much better off without him as a member.

Zimmerman was the one with the documented history of violence.




The same is true with Martin.
 
2013-06-21 12:24:57 PM
I'm so glad everyone has access to all the evidence and can properly come to a judgement immediately.

I pity the jury for not having access to evidence, hearing both sides of the, and then having to weigh all that lack of evidence and information to come to a decision.
 
2013-06-21 12:26:16 PM

tblax: Regardless of the outcome Zim will go down in history as a murderer and a coward.


Why is he a coward?  A 'coward' if we are just going to use that term, would have stayed in the car, no?

Oh wait.  Is he a coward because he had a carry permit ?  If so I guess anyone who owns a gun is a sacless eunuch.   Hey, do they drive a Porsches too?
 
2013-06-21 12:26:33 PM

gimmegimme: If following someone for several minutes in a vehicle and then on foot does not qualify as "pursuit"...well, maybe English is not your first language.


If you think that "pursuit" always means "imminent attack," then you should probably brush up on your English, too.
 
2013-06-21 12:29:29 PM

Phinn: gimmegimme: If following someone for several minutes in a vehicle and then on foot does not qualify as "pursuit"...well, maybe English is not your first language.

If you think that "pursuit" always means "imminent attack," then you should probably brush up on your English, too.


At least you're agreeing that Zimmy was engaged in an armed pursuit of the teenager he eventually shot to death at close range.
 
2013-06-21 12:29:38 PM

Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: gimmegimme: Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted.

Nutsac_Jim: I know of no people who assert that Zimmerman did not kill Martin

Is that an ignorant response or intentional dishonesty?

OK.  Show me one person post in this thread or some other thread that says
that the one armed man killed Treyvon Martin, not Zimmerman.


So dishonest. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
2013-06-21 12:32:13 PM
I have a question for the Farkers claim Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin. If the thug was scared of Zimmerman why didn't he call 911? He had a phone on him.
 
2013-06-21 12:32:48 PM

gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: If following someone for several minutes in a vehicle and then on foot does not qualify as "pursuit"...well, maybe English is not your first language.

If you think that "pursuit" always means "imminent attack," then you should probably brush up on your English, too.

At least you're agreeing that Zimmy was engaged in an armed pursuit of the teenager he eventually shot to death at close range.



"Eventually."  You're cute.

With one little word, you skip right over Martin's relevant actions, to-wit the nose-breaking and the head-bashing.

Did you know that the US eventually dropped two atomic bombs on Japan?  True story.
 
2013-06-21 12:35:24 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: I have a question for the Farkers claim Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin. If the thug was scared of Zimmerman why didn't he call 911? He had a phone on him.


Perhaps he was scared that the police would fail to arrest the man who shot him to death for three whole---oh, that's what happened.

Phinn: gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: If following someone for several minutes in a vehicle and then on foot does not qualify as "pursuit"...well, maybe English is not your first language.

If you think that "pursuit" always means "imminent attack," then you should probably brush up on your English, too.

At least you're agreeing that Zimmy was engaged in an armed pursuit of the teenager he eventually shot to death at close range.

"Eventually."  You're cute.

With one little word, you skip right over Martin's relevant actions, to-wit the nose-breaking and the head-bashing.

Did you know that the US eventually dropped two atomic bombs on Japan?  True story.


"nose breaking" "head bashing"  OMG....how long was he in the hospital?  Is he still in physical therapy?  He must have looked like he went ten rounds with a mountain lion, right?
 
2013-06-21 12:37:51 PM

gimmegimme: OMG



Are you a 12 year-old girl?
 
2013-06-21 12:38:50 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: I have a question for the Farkers claim Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin. If the thug was scared of Zimmerman why didn't he call 911? He had a phone on him.


You should be a criminal defense attorney.

You: "Your honor, the young girl did not call 911. Therefore she could not have been raped"
Judge: "I see your point. Case closed. Not guilty!"

Conservative logic. Always good for laughs.
 
2013-06-21 12:39:57 PM

gimmegimme: Space Wizard: gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: Zimmy started the fight by stalking the 17-year-old boy. If someone is following you around in this manner, you have the right to stand your ground and to defend yourself from the armed man who won't stop following you, first in a vehicle and then on foot.

No, you don't.  The attack must be imminent.  There's no evidence Martin was attacked, or under imminent attack.

Martin knew he was being followed by some weirdo for quite some time, a man who was rolling in a vehicle and then got out on foot.  Was Zimmerman going to kidnap him?  Rape him?  He had no idea.  Martin tried to elude the stranger, but the man would not stop what turned out to be an armed pursuit.

If Martin felt he was under duress. Why did he not scream and yell as loud as he could? It was easily within earshot of several houses.

Subconsciously, most people that are knowingly doing wrong will try not to draw attention to themselves. Even while under duress.

Way to blame the dead kid for not dealing with his stalker in the way you think he should have.

No Such Agency: gimmegimme:
Wow...we're pretending that folks who throw the term "thug" around in Zimmy threads are implying that Martin was from India?

I guess that song about "strange fruit" could be referring to the mangoes that hang from the trees in Mumbai.

Don't look at me, I was just being snarky.  I don't think Zimmerman is a crazed racist who was hunting for blacks to murder, and I don't think Martin was doing anything illegal that merited being accosted with a gun.

I just think this whole tragedy could have been easily avoided if certain people who are not police hadn't been driving around armed and trying to act like police.

Okay, cool.  I like snark.  (And I'm sad that someone brought up the totally not-racist purple drank bullshiat.)


*shrug* call me Captain Hindsight. I'm just saying, most people under duress in that situation as a victim, will make as much noise as possible.

Whether it is fight or flight.

So, from that most simplistic of things draws my conclusion that Martin was up to no good. Be it very minor or large.

Regardless, the whole situation is unfortunate.
 
2013-06-21 12:40:01 PM

Phinn: gimmegimme: OMG

Are you a 12 year-old girl?


No, I'm just so sad!  Zimmerman was covered in blood, right?  How much plastic surgery did he need to put his face back together.  I mean, I've seen lots of MMA fights, but Zimmerman must have really looked BAD.
 
2013-06-21 12:42:35 PM
 gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: If following someone for several minutes in a vehicle and then on foot does not qualify as "pursuit"...well, maybe English is not your first language.

If you think that "pursuit" always means "imminent attack," then you should probably brush up on your English, too.

At least you're agreeing that Zimmy was engaged in an armed pursuit of the teenager he eventually shot to death at close range.


 Ahh..  Now i understand whats going on here.  GimmieGimmie is a mind reader and knows what people are thinking.  Thats how GimmieGimmie knows how Treyvon Martin requested that Zimmerman stop following him and who started throwing punches first.
 
2013-06-21 12:43:25 PM

Nutsac_Jim: tblax: Regardless of the outcome Zim will go down in history as a murderer and a coward.

Why is he a coward?  A 'coward' if we are just going to use that term, would have stayed in the car, no?

Oh wait.  Is he a coward because he had a carry permit ?  If so I guess anyone who owns a gun is a sacless eunuch.   Hey, do they drive a Porsches too?


See I'm not gonna get anywhere arguing with the likes of you because I know we have different opinions on who initiated the conflict, something which is currently unknowable with the available evidence.

Lets just say in the version I believe, Z was feeling empowered by his weapon and decided to start a conflict with an unarmed kid. And when he started to lose he shot him. He made the bed but he refused to lay in it. Where I come from that's cowardly.
 
2013-06-21 12:45:25 PM

gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: OMG

Are you a 12 year-old girl?

No, I'm just so sad!  Zimmerman was covered in blood, right?  How much plastic surgery did he need to put his face back together.  I mean, I've seen lots of MMA fights, but Zimmerman must have really looked BAD.



I'm just glad fark has an armchair trauma expert like you to help us decide what constitutes an injury that warrants fear for one's life. I'm surprised the prosecution hasn't tapped you yet for your invaluable testimony.
 
2013-06-21 12:45:33 PM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: If following someone for several minutes in a vehicle and then on foot does not qualify as "pursuit"...well, maybe English is not your first language.

If you think that "pursuit" always means "imminent attack," then you should probably brush up on your English, too.

At least you're agreeing that Zimmy was engaged in an armed pursuit of the teenager he eventually shot to death at close range.

 Ahh..  Now i understand whats going on here.  GimmieGimmie is a mind reader and knows what people are thinking.  Thats how GimmieGimmie knows how Treyvon Martin requested that Zimmerman stop following him and who started throwing punches first.


I don't know where you're getting that.

Armed: Zimmy had a gun.

Pursuit: Zimmy was following Martin around, pursuing him.

Armed pursuit.  (Sounds like a Van Damme movie.)
 
2013-06-21 12:48:25 PM

Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: OMG

Are you a 12 year-old girl?

No, I'm just so sad!  Zimmerman was covered in blood, right?  How much plastic surgery did he need to put his face back together.  I mean, I've seen lots of MMA fights, but Zimmerman must have really looked BAD.


I'm just glad fark has an armchair trauma expert like you to help us decide what constitutes an injury that warrants fear for one's life. I'm surprised the prosecution hasn't tapped you yet for your invaluable testimony.


Hey, it's not me determining the extent of Zimmy's injuries.  The doctors kept him in the hospital for several weeks for a reason, right?  The surgeons who put his face back together knew what they were doing.  They're heroes.
 
2013-06-21 12:49:58 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: I have a question for the Farkers claim Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin. If the thug was scared of Zimmerman why didn't he call 911? He had a phone on him.


img.fark.net
 
2013-06-21 12:50:30 PM

jaytkay: Mid_mo_mad_man: I have a question for the Farkers claim Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin. If the thug was scared of Zimmerman why didn't he call 911? He had a phone on him.

You should be a criminal defense attorney.

You: "Your honor, the young girl did not call 911. Therefore she could not have been raped"
Judge: "I see your point. Case closed. Not guilty!"

Conservative logic. Always good for laughs.




The point I was trying to make was Martin wasn't scared of Zimmerman. He could have called the cops. He could have ran away. He choose to attack Zimmerman. The girl freind's statements back this up. He wanted to teach him a lesson for following him. Thug acted all gangster and got what he deserved.

gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: I have a question for the Farkers claim Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin. If the thug was scared of Zimmerman why didn't he call 911? He had a phone on him.

Perhaps he was scared that the police would fail to arrest the man who shot him to death for three whole---oh, that's what happened.

The DA knew they didn't have a case that's why he wasn't charged. If it wasn't for Jesse Jackass and the like this would have never gone to trail. No crime was occurred

 
2013-06-21 12:51:49 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: jaytkay: Mid_mo_mad_man: I have a question for the Farkers claim Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin. If the thug was scared of Zimmerman why didn't he call 911? He had a phone on him.

You should be a criminal defense attorney.

You: "Your honor, the young girl did not call 911. Therefore she could not have been raped"
Judge: "I see your point. Case closed. Not guilty!"

Conservative logic. Always good for laughs.

The point I was trying to make was Martin wasn't scared of Zimmerman. He could have called the cops. He could have ran away. He choose to attack Zimmerman. The girl freind's statements back this up. He wanted to teach him a lesson for following him. Thug acted all gangster and got what he deserved.

gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: I have a question for the Farkers claim Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin. If the thug was scared of Zimmerman why didn't he call 911? He had a phone on him.

Perhaps he was scared that the police would fail to arrest the man who shot him to death for three whole---oh, that's what happened.

The DA knew they didn't have a case that's why he wasn't charged. If it wasn't for Jesse Jackass and the like this would have never gone to trail. No crime was occurred


The jury will determine whether or not a crime occurred.  I'm sorry this displeases you.
 
2013-06-21 12:51:58 PM

gimmegimme: Hey, it's not me determining the extent of Zimmy's injuries.  The doctors kept him in the hospital for several weeks for a reason, right?  The surgeons who put his face back together knew what they were doing.  They're heroes.


Guy following you? License to kill!
Guy beating you up? HEY! He's just an unarmed kid!
 
2013-06-21 12:54:01 PM

s2s2s2: gimmegimme: Hey, it's not me determining the extent of Zimmy's injuries.  The doctors kept him in the hospital for several weeks for a reason, right?  The surgeons who put his face back together knew what they were doing.  They're heroes.

Guy following you? License to kill!
Guy beating you up? HEY! He's just an unarmed kid!


Black kid walking down the street? License to kill
 
2013-06-21 12:55:33 PM

tblax: s2s2s2: gimmegimme: Hey, it's not me determining the extent of Zimmy's injuries.  The doctors kept him in the hospital for several weeks for a reason, right?  The surgeons who put his face back together knew what they were doing.  They're heroes.

Guy following you? License to kill!
Guy beating you up? HEY! He's just an unarmed kid!

Black kid walking down the street? License to kill


Come on, bro.  "They" always get away.

Not this time...
 
2013-06-21 12:56:22 PM

gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.


Drink Coca-Cola next time?

/window seat, please
 
2013-06-21 12:58:28 PM

gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Phinn: gimmegimme: If following someone for several minutes in a vehicle and then on foot does not qualify as "pursuit"...well, maybe English is not your first language.

If you think that "pursuit" always means "imminent attack," then you should probably brush up on your English, too.

At least you're agreeing that Zimmy was engaged in an armed pursuit of the teenager he eventually shot to death at close range.

 Ahh..  Now i understand whats going on here.  GimmieGimmie is a mind reader and knows what people are thinking.  Thats how GimmieGimmie knows how Treyvon Martin requested that Zimmerman stop following him and who started throwing punches first.

I don't know where you're getting that.

Armed: Zimmy had a gun.

Pursuit: Zimmy was following Martin around, pursuing him.

Armed pursuit.  (Sounds like a Van Damme movie.)


An like most movies it's been reveiwed on fark  ad nauseum..
 
2013-06-21 12:59:32 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Thug acted all gangster


Mid_mo_mad_man: If it wasn't for Jesse Jackass and the like this would have never gone to trail.


Your stormfront is showing.
 
2013-06-21 12:59:59 PM

tblax: Black kid walking down the street? License to kill


-2

Would not reply
 
2013-06-21 01:07:48 PM

gimmegimme: KrustyKitten: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim:

No.. I am not criticizing Martin.  I am criticizing you for asserting that the reason for assaulting Zimmerman was because clearly zimmerman would not stop following him.    I think it is fine to assault a person that follows you after you express that you do not like his behavior and you find it threatening.

You're putting too much of a burden on the victim.  An adult doesn't have to be told not to follow people around.  Adults understand that is unpleasant and suspicious behavior.  If I follow a 17-year-old woman in a vehicle and then on foot, the police will have a talk with me.

I have no evidence that Martin demanded Zimmerman stop.  I have no evidence that Martin didnt hide in the bushes and give Zimmerman a donkey punch.
Neither do you.

'Armed pursuit' is loaded.  This makes it sound like someone hunted the other down 'like a dog'.
He was simply following someone and happened to be carrying.  That's it.


Zimmy was armed.  He was clearly in pursuit.  I'm sorry if you don't like words.

Calling someone a pussy for carrying is also loaded.

No, a pussy starts a fistfight and then grabs his gun when he's losing.


Sure was, right up to the point when he agreed with the operator that he didn't have to do that, gave up pursuit and was circling back to his truck.  You know, right before Martin jumped him and got shot for initiating a physical confrontation.

Now, I don't know that this actually happened, but it does appear just a likely as the scenario you've put out today, so I thought I'd contribute.

/making up stuff and pretending it's true is fun!

If following someone for several minutes in a vehicle and then on foot does not qualify as "pursuit"...well, maybe English is not your first language.



I take issue with your implication that GZ was actively in pursuit of Martin when the physical confrontation occurred.
 Ironic that you mock me be for being an immigrant, in this thread especially.
 
2013-06-21 01:09:36 PM

gimmegimme: Hey, it's not me determining the extent of Zimmy's injuries. The doctors kept him in the hospital for several weeks for a reason, right? The surgeons who put his face back together knew what they were doing. They're heroes.



You still haven't read a single word of criminal law, have you?

There's no shame in that.  But it does make you look very silly when you pretend to know things you clearly don't.

For the 80th time today, the legal standard is not based on whether Martin actually caused fatal, or even potentially fatal, injuries to GZ.  The issue is whether GZ reasonably believed that Martin was imminently threatening to.

You don't actually have to wait until your skull opens before you are allowed to exercise your right to self-defense.
 
2013-06-21 01:12:05 PM

KrustyKitten: gimmegimme: KrustyKitten: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim:

No.. I am not criticizing Martin.  I am criticizing you for asserting that the reason for assaulting Zimmerman was because clearly zimmerman would not stop following him.    I think it is fine to assault a person that follows you after you express that you do not like his behavior and you find it threatening.

You're putting too much of a burden on the victim.  An adult doesn't have to be told not to follow people around.  Adults understand that is unpleasant and suspicious behavior.  If I follow a 17-year-old woman in a vehicle and then on foot, the police will have a talk with me.

I have no evidence that Martin demanded Zimmerman stop.  I have no evidence that Martin didnt hide in the bushes and give Zimmerman a donkey punch.
Neither do you.

'Armed pursuit' is loaded.  This makes it sound like someone hunted the other down 'like a dog'.
He was simply following someone and happened to be carrying.  That's it.


Zimmy was armed.  He was clearly in pursuit.  I'm sorry if you don't like words.

Calling someone a pussy for carrying is also loaded.

No, a pussy starts a fistfight and then grabs his gun when he's losing.


Sure was, right up to the point when he agreed with the operator that he didn't have to do that, gave up pursuit and was circling back to his truck.  You know, right before Martin jumped him and got shot for initiating a physical confrontation.

Now, I don't know that this actually happened, but it does appear just a likely as the scenario you've put out today, so I thought I'd contribute.

/making up stuff and pretending it's true is fun!

If following someone for several minutes in a vehicle and then on foot does not qualify as "pursuit"...well, maybe English is not your first language.


I take issue with your implication that GZ was actively in pursuit of Martin when the physical confrontation occurred.
 Ironic that you mock me be for being an immigrant, in this thread especially.


First of all, I would never mock people who learn English as a Second Language.  I have a great deal of patience when I learn that someone with whom I am talking may not have a solid grasp of English.  This kind of understanding allows people to communicate.  I am very glad that many states offer robust ESL programs to folks of all ages.

As for whether his armed pursuit was "active," you're splitting hairs.  If I break into my neighbor's house, can I just tell him that I'm on my way out so he won't call the police?  It's no longer an active burglary, after all.  All we have to determine these things are Zimmerman's contradictory statements.
 
2013-06-21 01:15:00 PM

Phinn: gimmegimme: Hey, it's not me determining the extent of Zimmy's injuries. The doctors kept him in the hospital for several weeks for a reason, right? The surgeons who put his face back together knew what they were doing. They're heroes.

You still haven't read a single word of criminal law, have you?

There's no shame in that.  But it does make you look very silly when you pretend to know things you clearly don't.

For the 80th time today, the legal standard is not based on whether Martin actually caused fatal, or even potentially fatal, injuries to GZ.  The issue is whether GZ reasonably believed that Martin was imminently threatening to.

You don't actually have to wait until your skull opens before you are allowed to exercise your right to self-defense.


For the eightieth time, I'm very happy we'll have the criminal justice system sort the issue out.  (I just wish Zimmerman had allowed police to sort things out that night instead of taking things into his own history-of-violence hands...)

You must admit that some of your self-defense discussion applies to Martin.  He didn't know what the fark Zimmy was up to.  He didn't know if Zimmy wanted to kidnap him, rape him, shoot him...whatever.  If Zimmy had a right to self-defense, why didn't Martin?
 
2013-06-21 01:18:55 PM

gimmegimme: KrustyKitten: gimmegimme: KrustyKitten: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim:

No.. I am not criticizing Martin.  I am criticizing you for asserting that the reason for assaulting Zimmerman was because clearly zimmerman would not stop following him.    I think it is fine to assault a person that follows you after you express that you do not like his behavior and you find it threatening.

You're putting too much of a burden on the victim.  An adult doesn't have to be told not to follow people around.  Adults understand that is unpleasant and suspicious behavior.  If I follow a 17-year-old woman in a vehicle and then on foot, the police will have a talk with me.

I have no evidence that Martin demanded Zimmerman stop.  I have no evidence that Martin didnt hide in the bushes and give Zimmerman a donkey punch.
Neither do you.

'Armed pursuit' is loaded.  This makes it sound like someone hunted the other down 'like a dog'.
He was simply following someone and happened to be carrying.  That's it.


Zimmy was armed.  He was clearly in pursuit.  I'm sorry if you don't like words.

Calling someone a pussy for carrying is also loaded.

No, a pussy starts a fistfight and then grabs his gun when he's losing.


Sure was, right up to the point when he agreed with the operator that he didn't have to do that, gave up pursuit and was circling back to his truck.  You know, right before Martin jumped him and got shot for initiating a physical confrontation.

Now, I don't know that this actually happened, but it does appear just a likely as the scenario you've put out today, so I thought I'd contribute.

/making up stuff and pretending it's true is fun!

If following someone for several minutes in a vehicle and then on foot does not qualify as "pursuit"...well, maybe English is not your first language.


I take issue with your implication that GZ was actively in pursuit of Martin when the physical confrontation occurred.
 Ironic that you mock me be for being an immigrant, in this thread especially.

...


I'm trying to say that I don't believe that there's any proof that Z was actively pursuing Martin when the confrontation occurred.  If you are bothered that someone is following you home and two blocks before you get there, that person turns around and walks away, do you still get to follow them and beat them up?
Obviously, I feel this is relevant and not splitting hairs.  Actually, I think it makes all the difference in a situation like this.
 
2013-06-21 01:22:35 PM

KrustyKitten: I'm trying to say that I don't believe that there's any proof that Z was actively pursuing Martin when the confrontation occurred. If you are bothered that someone is following you home and two blocks before you get there, that person turns around and walks away, do you still get to follow them and beat them up?
Obviously, I feel this is relevant and not splitting hairs. Actually, I think it makes all the difference in a situation like this.


How the heck was Martin supposed to know that his stalker was done stalking?  How was he to know that the stalker was alone?  How was he to know if the stalker was armed?  Or how well armed?  He seems to have seen the stalker on the phone...was the stalker talking to someone else in a van that could be used to whisk him away?

Martin had no idea what was going on, only that he was being stalked by some weirdo.  If I follow a 17-year-old girl around for twenty minutes and then stop to tie my shoe, I can't complain if I get Maced.
 
2013-06-21 01:28:09 PM

gimmegimme: KrustyKitten: I'm trying to say that I don't believe that there's any proof that Z was actively pursuing Martin when the confrontation occurred. If you are bothered that someone is following you home and two blocks before you get there, that person turns around and walks away, do you still get to follow them and beat them up?
Obviously, I feel this is relevant and not splitting hairs. Actually, I think it makes all the difference in a situation like this.

How the heck was Martin supposed to know that his stalker was done stalking?  How was he to know that the stalker was alone?  How was he to know if the stalker was armed?  Or how well armed?  He seems to have seen the stalker on the phone...was the stalker talking to someone else in a van that could be used to whisk him away?

Martin had no idea what was going on, only that he was being stalked by some weirdo.  If I follow a 17-year-old girl around for twenty minutes and then stop to tie my shoe, I can't complain if I get Maced.




Following does not equal stalking. As I pointed out earlier Martin wasn't scared. The gf's statement proves as much
 
2013-06-21 01:28:36 PM

gimmegimme: For the eightieth time, I'm very happy we'll have the criminal justice system sort the issue out.



That's patently untrue.  You're making dozens of assertions about the legal significance of everything from GZ's conversation with the police, to GZ's car, his gun, and his movements, etc.  All of which have been completely wrong.

You're clearly not waiting for the criminal justice system to operate.  You have reached a highly-emotional, ill-informed, legally-baseless conclusion about Zimmerman's supposed guilt, and you're defending it like it's the last shred of your dignity.

gimmegimme: You must admit that some of your self-defense discussion applies to Martin.



I do.  The law applies to everyone, all the time.  Unfortunately, you don't know what the law is, and so in the place of that knowledge, all you have are wild guesses and a profoundly contorted sense of equity.

gimmegimme: He didn't know what the fark Zimmy was up to. He didn't know if Zimmy wanted to kidnap him, rape him, shoot him...whatever. If Zimmy had a right to self-defense, why didn't Martin?



Not knowing what someone is up to is not the same thing as an imminent threat of bodily harm.  It's suspicion.  Why can't you understand this basic concept?

Martin DID have the right to self-defense.  And, more importantly, if he had lived and GZ had died, he would also have the presumption of innocence as to any self-defense claim he may have made.

The problem you have been unable to resolve is that there is no evidence to disprove GZ's claim that he acted in self-defense.
 
2013-06-21 01:31:30 PM

Phinn: gimmegimme: For the eightieth time, I'm very happy we'll have the criminal justice system sort the issue out.

That's patently untrue.  You're making dozens of assertions about the legal significance of everything from GZ's conversation with the police, to GZ's car, his gun, and his movements, etc.  All of which have been completely wrong.

You're clearly not waiting for the criminal justice system to operate.  You have reached a highly-emotional, ill-informed, legally-baseless conclusion about Zimmerman's supposed guilt, and you're defending it like it's the last shred of your dignity.

gimmegimme: You must admit that some of your self-defense discussion applies to Martin.

I do.  The law applies to everyone, all the time.  Unfortunately, you don't know what the law is, and so in the place of that knowledge, all you have are wild guesses and a profoundly contorted sense of equity.

gimmegimme: He didn't know what the fark Zimmy was up to. He didn't know if Zimmy wanted to kidnap him, rape him, shoot him...whatever. If Zimmy had a right to self-defense, why didn't Martin?

Not knowing what someone is up to is not the same thing as an imminent threat of bodily harm.  It's suspicion.  Why can't you understand this basic concept?

Martin DID have the right to self-defense.  And, more importantly, if he had lived and GZ had died, he would also have the presumption of innocence as to any self-defense claim he may have made.

The problem you have been unable to resolve is that there is no evidence to disprove GZ's claim that he acted in self-defense.


You must be psychic, as I assure you that I am quite glad that there will be a trial and I am pleased that the system will follow the verdict, whatever it might be.  That's what we do in this country.  (We don't take the law into our own hands.)

And you acknowledge Martin had a right to self-defense.  If the seventeen-year-old African American males of Sanford, Florida have learned nothing else, it's that they must be armed at all times for their own protection.
 
2013-06-21 01:38:37 PM
Zimmerman is a murderer.
Such a simple case, yet obstruction of justice may happen by playing the emotion and 'white Mexican could never be a racist' card.

/Up next on the docket: Old fat white racist sheriff in Arizona to be tried on abusing the power of his office, plus his hiring pedophiles to patrol little kids schools.
//But first: Massive man hunt underway to find the owner of the dog poop that keeps being placed on the corner of Elm and First.
 
2013-06-21 01:44:18 PM

jaytkay: Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: gimmegimme: Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted.

Nutsac_Jim: I know of no people who assert that Zimmerman did not kill Martin

Is that an ignorant response or intentional dishonesty?

OK.  Show me one person post in this thread or some other thread that says
that the one armed man killed Treyvon Martin, not Zimmerman.

So dishonest. Thanks for clearing that up.


Show me the post in this thread that states that someone else killed Treyvon or else you are a sac of dung.
 
2013-06-21 01:47:04 PM

Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: gimmegimme: Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted.

Nutsac_Jim: I know of no people who assert that Zimmerman did not kill Martin

Is that an ignorant response or intentional dishonesty?

OK.  Show me one person post in this thread or some other thread that says
that the one armed man killed Treyvon Martin, not Zimmerman.

So dishonest. Thanks for clearing that up.

Show me the post in this thread that states that someone else killed Treyvon or else you are a sac of dung.


I think part of the confusion is that the original word was "assaulted" and then you changed it to "killed."
 
2013-06-21 01:51:57 PM

Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: gimmegimme: Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted.

Nutsac_Jim: I know of no people who assert that Zimmerman did not kill Martin

Is that an ignorant response or intentional dishonesty?

OK.  Show me one person post in this thread or some other thread that says
that the one armed man killed Treyvon Martin, not Zimmerman.

So dishonest. Thanks for clearing that up.

Show me the post in this thread that states that someone else killed Treyvon or else you are a sac of dung.


Someone states the obvious - "Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted".

And you pretend they said, "Zimmerman did not kill Martin".

And you are deeply offended that someone notices your dishonesty. Man up. Act like an adult.
 
2013-06-21 01:57:51 PM

gimmegimme: I am quite glad that there will be a trial and I am pleased that the system will follow the verdict, whatever it might be. That's what we do in this country. (We don't take the law into our own hands.)


 
You just can't stop spewing your ignorance, can you?  Trials are not supposed to be an opportunity to reveal all the evidence, and to investigate the facts.  They exist only when there is ALREADY a body of evidence in existence that is sufficient to convict (which in this case includes evidence sufficient to disprove self-defense).


The prosecution is SUPPOSED to weigh this evidence independently, with the understanding of the presumption of innocence against them, AND the standard of proof that is stacked against them.  They are not supposed to even ATTEMPT to bring a case to trial unless they are already convinced that there is evidence of guilt beyond reasonable doubt.  Trials do not exist to test their theories, or to investigate the facts, or to just roll the dice and see how things play out.  Trials are held because prosecutors are fallible, and their judgment as to what constitutes sufficient evidence may be faulty.  But the basic principle is clear -- charges should not be filed and a trial should not be held on the basis of a mere possibility or opinion of guilt.

Trials should not be a 50-50 chance of conviction versus non-conviction.  Among the set of cases that go all the way to a trial, there is supposed to be a strong selection bias in favor of guilty verdicts.  This is because only the cases where there is extremely solid proof of guilt are even supposed to go to trial, and the rest either dismissed or dropped.  As a result, the way it's supposed to work is that most full-trial prosecutions should result in convictions.

This trial, however, is a sham.  It's a politically-motivated witch hunt.  There is clearly insufficient evidence to disprove self-defense.  At least it's clear among people who understand the law and look at the evidence objectively.

And, yes, you do get to "take the law into your own hands."  Self-defense is a basic human right, and killing in self-defense is 100% lawful and proper. It's not merely wrong-but-we'll-let-this-one-slide.  It's not merely bad-but-excusable.  It's completely just and right.

And you aren't obligated to check with the police beforehand, nor are you required to prove yourself after the fact.  The State must disprove the claim that your act was in self-defense.  That's what the "presumption of innocence" means.
 
2013-06-21 01:58:41 PM

tblax: See I'm not gonna get anywhere arguing with the likes of you because I know we have different opinions on who initiated the conflict, something which is currently unknowable with the available evidence.


The likes of you.  what the eff.

I have reasons to believe Martin started it.  I have reasons to believe Zimmerman started it.

If one has no evidence, then one can't find guilty of murder simply because he got out of his car and you would not have.

Zimmerman followed him.  That is clear.  Hunted down?  No, not unless Zimmerman is the smartest of hunters and enticed Martin to engage in fisticuffs enough to get all bloody, then issuing the killing round.

Zimmerman does not seem to be that smart to me.

Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter, at best.  Murder, nope.
 
2013-06-21 02:10:34 PM

jaytkay: Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: gimmegimme: Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted.

Nutsac_Jim: I know of no people who assert that Zimmerman did not kill Martin

Is that an ignorant response or intentional dishonesty?

OK.  Show me one person post in this thread or some other thread that says
that the one armed man killed Treyvon Martin, not Zimmerman.

So dishonest. Thanks for clearing that up.

Show me the post in this thread that states that someone else killed Treyvon or else you are a sac of dung.

Someone states the obvious - "Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted".

And you pretend they said, "Zimmerman did not kill Martin".

And you are deeply offended that someone notices your dishonesty. Man up. Act like an adult.


What the eff are you smoking.  NOBODY is saying that Zimmerman and Martin were not fighting.  NOBODY.  Zimmerman himself states they were fighting.  Why would anyone argue otherwise.

Yes, it is such an **asinine** statement, that I thought no person that can count to potato would make it.
 
2013-06-21 02:16:26 PM

gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: gimmegimme: Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted.

Nutsac_Jim: I know of no people who assert that Zimmerman did not kill Martin

Is that an ignorant response or intentional dishonesty?

OK.  Show me one person post in this thread or some other thread that says
that the one armed man killed Treyvon Martin, not Zimmerman.

So dishonest. Thanks for clearing that up.

Show me the post in this thread that states that someone else killed Treyvon or else you are a sac of dung.

I think part of the confusion is that the original word was "assaulted" and then you changed it to "killed."


OK.  Clearly, please back up your initial statement that I misread.   Show me one person in this thread that said that Zimmerman never came in contact with Martin.   Hell, go find any thread.     They were clearly fighting.  Witnesses state it.  Zimmerman states it.
 
2013-06-21 02:19:14 PM

Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: Nutsac_Jim: jaytkay: gimmegimme: Some Zim fans claim that Martin was never assaulted.

Nutsac_Jim: I know of no people who assert that Zimmerman did not kill Martin

Is that an ignorant response or intentional dishonesty?

OK.  Show me one person post in this thread or some other thread that says
that the one armed man killed Treyvon Martin, not Zimmerman.

So dishonest. Thanks for clearing that up.

Show me the post in this thread that states that someone else killed Treyvon or else you are a sac of dung.

I think part of the confusion is that the original word was "assaulted" and then you changed it to "killed."

OK.  Clearly, please back up your initial statement that I misread.   Show me one person in this thread that said that Zimmerman never came in contact with Martin.   Hell, go find any thread.     They were clearly fighting.  Witnesses state it.  Zimmerman states it.


Now you're talking about "came in contact" and "fighting."  Words have meanings, friend.

And I don't think I got the props I deserve for this earlier exchange we had:


Nutsac_Jim:

Martin may have walked on Mars one day.  I doubt it.   He was shot in the chest after assaulting someone.  Most astronauts do not have assault on their record.

Gimmegimme:

Then I guess George Zimmerman can never be an astronaut.

 
2013-06-21 02:23:29 PM

SuperNinjaToad: natazha: IdBeCrazyIf: I'm a little surprised they got all women

I'm not, it almost guaranties Zimmerman will walk. After all, he killed a scary, black guy.

what makes you think Trayvon wasn't 'a scary, black guy '? Were you there that night?
I may be wrong but I don't think Trayvon is a 5 ft nothing 99 ibs weakling who mannerism is that of Larry from the Stooges and speaks impeccable Shakesphearean English with like manners to boot..


Like this:
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-21 02:26:35 PM
thisthreadagain.jpg

For what it's worth, here's what I think happened. It is consistent with all the known facts, AND most if not all of Zimmerman's statements (which, because he's an interested party, cannot be relied upon).

Zimmermen got out of his car to follow Trayvon. Trayvon rounds a corner and hides. Zimmerman rounds the corner, and walks past the hiding Trayvon. He agrees to discontinue pursuit, hangs up with the police, and turns to start walking back. Trayvon sees Zimmerman suddenly turn around and start walking back in his direction, and assumes he's been found (or is about to be). He confronts Zimmerman. Zimmerman pulls his gun. Trayvon, seeing the gun, jumps Zimmerman and attempts to neutralize the threat (ie: pounds Zimmerman's head into the ground to knock him unconscious. Which is the only real way to neutralize a man with a gun, other than take the gun away, which Zimmerman also says Trayvon attempted.) Zimmermen shoots Trayvon.
 
2013-06-21 02:27:20 PM
  

gimmegimme: I think part of the confusion is that the original word was "assaulted" and then you changed it to "killed."


OK.   I apolozige.  Jaytkey was not clear in his insults as to which statement he was referring.

It is clear they were fighting.  Nobody argues otherwise.  At best, someone might say that martin didnt have a black eye.   This is not evidence they were not fighting.  It is evidence Zimmerman is a poor fighter.
 
2013-06-21 02:27:52 PM

Nutsac_Jim: NOBODY is saying that Zimmerman and Martin were not fighting. NOBODY. Zimmerman himself states they were fighting. Why would anyone argue otherwise


Nobody is arguing otherwise outside your imagination. So you can stop being angry about it.
 
2013-06-21 02:36:36 PM

gimmegimme: Now you're talking about "came in contact" and "fighting."  Words have meanings, friend.


I am assuming by assault, you are not referring to a verbal assault, but of battery.

You said that there are zim lovers stating that Zim did not assault Martin.

I am assuming you are not saying that they are saying Zimmerman said nothing offensive to Martin, but that
Zimmerman struck no blows on Martin.

I do not see how *anyone* can make this argument.


Perhaps you mean there are zimmerman lovers that state that zimmerman did not start the fight.  Possibly.  That is hardly an unbelievable scenario.  There are Martin lovers that state martin did not start the fight too.  Also a believable scenario.
 
2013-06-21 02:40:28 PM

gimmegimme: Now you're talking about "came in contact" and "fighting."  Words have meanings, friend.

And I don't think I got the props I deserve for this earlier exchange we had:


Nutsac_Jim:

Martin may have walked on Mars one day.  I doubt it.   He was shot in the chest after assaulting someone.  Most astronauts do not have assault on their record.

Gimmegimme:

Then I guess George Zimmerman can never be an astronaut.



I did find this a humorous comment.
 
2013-06-21 02:41:08 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Perhaps you mean there are zimmerman lovers that state that zimmerman did not start the fight.


That's exactly what he meant.

As you stated, claiming there was no physical contact is ridiculous. Which is why nobody is claiming that.

My apologies for being a dick about it.
 
2013-06-21 02:49:00 PM

jaytkay: Nutsac_Jim: NOBODY is saying that Zimmerman and Martin were not fighting. NOBODY. Zimmerman himself states they were fighting. Why would anyone argue otherwise

Nobody is arguing otherwise outside your imagination. So you can stop being angry about it.


GimmieGimme made the statement that some Zimmerman lovers believed Zimmerman did not assault Martin.

(assumption is that assault was used to mean striking martin with his fists, rather than a verbal assault)

I replied that nobody makes such assertions that Zimmerman did not touch Martin,( police statement, witnesses..etc)

Then, you piped in and start with the insults.
 
2013-06-21 02:56:13 PM

jaytkay: Nutsac_Jim: Perhaps you mean there are zimmerman lovers that state that zimmerman did not start the fight.

That's exactly what he meant.

As you stated, claiming there was no physical contact is ridiculous. Which is why nobody is claiming that.

My apologies for being a dick about it.



OK.   I guess so.      I think there are zimmerman lovers who refuse to beleive zimmerman poked the bear, and martin lovers who refuse to beleive a kid chose the wrong time to be a punk kid.

 It is unfortunate.  I wish the prosecution went with manslaughter or negligence of some kind.  Murder demands much more intent.
 
2013-06-21 02:57:07 PM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: roddack: Satan's Bunny Slippers: I thought all trials had to have 12 jurors unless it was strictly a civil action?  Is florida different?

(I googled, but on came up with same information)

From wiki
Supreme court rulled in Williams V. Florida that six juriors was sufficent and that "the 12-man panel" is not a necessary ingredient of "trial by jury" and is not a violation of the sizth amendment

thanks!


As such, states have the right to determine the number of jurors for cases (but I believe it can not be less than 6). In Florida it's a 6 person jury unless it's a capital case (death penalty) in which case they appoint a 12 member jury.
 
2013-06-21 03:08:37 PM

fredklein: thisthreadagain.jpg

For what it's worth, here's what I think happened. It is consistent with all the known facts, AND most if not all of Zimmerman's statements (which, because he's an interested party, cannot be relied upon).

Zimmermen got out of his car to follow Trayvon. Trayvon rounds a corner and hides. Zimmerman rounds the corner, and walks past the hiding Trayvon. He agrees to discontinue pursuit, hangs up with the police, and turns to start walking back. Trayvon sees Zimmerman suddenly turn around and start walking back in his direction, and assumes he's been found (or is about to be). He confronts Zimmerman. Zimmerman pulls his gun. Trayvon, seeing the gun, jumps Zimmerman and attempts to neutralize the threat (ie: pounds Zimmerman's head into the ground to knock him unconscious. Which is the only real way to neutralize a man with a gun, other than take the gun away, which Zimmerman also says Trayvon attempted.) Zimmermen shoots Trayvon.


I feel my version was much more plausible.  Yours involves Trayvon attacking a man that had pulled a gun.  I'm not saying that this isn't possible as all people have the "fight or flight" moment.  However, I feel that most people are smart enough to not bring a fist to a gunfight.
 
2013-06-21 04:28:30 PM
The jury should be made up of all black people.

Just sayin.
 
2013-06-21 04:35:28 PM

Hermione_Granger: The jury should be made up of all black people.

Just sayin.


What assumptions lead you to that conclusions?
 
2013-06-21 04:49:25 PM

meatsack_01: Poor lil trayvon is so innocent. i'm surprised he wasn't wearing a halo.

[moonbattery.com image 500x291]


The Predator doesn't shoot unarmed men.
 
2013-06-21 04:50:13 PM

IronOcelot: So many people are going to freak when Zimmerman walks.


There were riots for Rodney King.

If he walks, there will be riots in Florida.

Bet me on this.
 
2013-06-21 04:52:58 PM

Hermione_Granger: The jury should be made up of all black people.

Just sayin.


Just asking: How many, if any, of the jurors are black? But then again, I doubt anyone knows yet...
 
2013-06-21 04:53:25 PM

trickymoo: IronOcelot: So many people are going to freak when Zimmerman walks.

There were riots for Rodney King.

If he walks, there will be riots in Florida.

Bet me on this.


I'll bet you a month of TF that there aren't.
/conviction and no one pays up.
 
2013-06-21 05:14:39 PM

Abuse Liability: fredklein: thisthreadagain.jpg

For what it's worth, here's what I think happened. It is consistent with all the known facts, AND most if not all of Zimmerman's statements (which, because he's an interested party, cannot be relied upon).

Zimmermen got out of his car to follow Trayvon. Trayvon rounds a corner and hides. Zimmerman rounds the corner, and walks past the hiding Trayvon. He agrees to discontinue pursuit, hangs up with the police, and turns to start walking back. Trayvon sees Zimmerman suddenly turn around and start walking back in his direction, and assumes he's been found (or is about to be). He confronts Zimmerman. Zimmerman pulls his gun. Trayvon, seeing the gun, jumps Zimmerman and attempts to neutralize the threat (ie: pounds Zimmerman's head into the ground to knock him unconscious. Which is the only real way to neutralize a man with a gun, other than take the gun away, which Zimmerman also says Trayvon attempted.) Zimmermen shoots Trayvon.

I feel my version was much more plausible.  Yours involves Trayvon attacking a man that had pulled a gun.  I'm not saying that this isn't possible as all people have the "fight or flight" moment.  However, I feel that most people are smart enough to not bring a fist to a gunfight.


So, if you were hiding from a man with a gun, and he turned around and headed right for your hiding spot, you wouldn't think you were found out, and attack him first?


Maybe Trayvon didn't see the gun... at first. Maybe he just jumped out to confront Zimmerman. IIRC, the girlfriend says she heard Trayvon say "Why are you following me?" to Zimmerman. Maybe it's only after that that Trayvon sees the gun. Doesn't change the basic scenario- Trayvon thought the guy who was following him, the guy he was hiding from, had found him, and Trayvon was in fear of him. Still fits all the known facts, and all of Zimmerman's testimony.
 
2013-06-21 05:43:52 PM

gimmegimme: occamswrist: gimmegimme: occamswrist: MNguy: Nutsac_Jim: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Dont forget that he was carrying his grandfathers medicine to him, and going to make a donation to Mother Teresa's charity and ignore the beating.

I thought he was casing housing to break into?

I love these threads...

Martin was probably looking around at the houses because it was his first time there and he didn't know where he was going and Zimmerman misinterpreted it as a kid unnecesarily standing around in the rain casing the houses.

There's no proof at all that Martin was "looking around at the houses."  Zimmerman told different people different things.  In the Hannity interview, Zimmy said that Martin was suspicious because he wasn't walking home fast enough in the rain AND the kid was suspicious because he was skipping.

Skipping? News to me...but then all my knowledge about the case is from fark threads...

Here's the link.  Zimmy doesn't even have the common sense to say that he wished things hadn't happened the way they had, blah blah.


OK. I watched the clip up until the skipping part. Thank Jesus it was only a few minutes into the interview because Zimmerman sounds like a retard trying to choose his words carefully and that was painful to watch. Plus fox news is painful to watch anyway.

Zimmerman said he was running and then backtracked and used the word skipping. I doubt Martin was farking skipping in the same sense we all skipped in 3rd grade. You kidding me? He was likely lightly jogging but Zimmerman isn't articulate and couldn't find the right word.

Zimmerman also said in the interview it seemed odd that martin was walking leisurely in the rain and going in between houses. So I stand by my earlier post since that was when Zimmerman became suspicious, not during the skipping part.
 
2013-06-21 06:42:56 PM

Phinn: gimmegimme: Hey, it's not me determining the extent of Zimmy's injuries. The doctors kept him in the hospital for several weeks for a reason, right? The surgeons who put his face back together knew what they were doing. They're heroes.

You still haven't read a single word of criminal law, have you?

There's no shame in that.  But it does make you look very silly when you pretend to know things you clearly don't.

For the 80th time today, the legal standard is not based on whether Martin actually caused fatal, or even potentially fatal, injuries to GZ.  The issue is whether GZ reasonably believed that Martin was imminently threatening to.

You don't actually have to wait until your skull opens before you are allowed to exercise your right to self-defense.


Ironically, that's the exact same point the prosecution will likely argue in favor of Martin defending himself from Zimmerman.

This isn't the court of law - not a single person here is obligated to hold the opinion that Zimmerman is innocent; someone has to/is going to weigh the evidence and determine it's against Zimmerman - that's kind of the entire point of an adversarial system.

P.S. The force continuum in self-defense isn't a two-way street. If you instigate an attack, the victim has the legal right to escalate their force to match and/or exceed the aggressor in order to prevent injury; the aggressor, by law, is already committing a crime by attacking the victim and as such is  not entitled to any self-defense right with the exception of the victim exceeding what is necessary to prevent injury (IE using a gun to prevent injury from someone poking them with a blunt stick). This can obviously become a complex continuum based on what a reasonable person deems "imminent threat," but you're insane if you think a reasonable person isn't going to give benefit of the doubt to the victim first, should an aggressor be determined with sufficient probability.
 
2013-06-21 07:11:44 PM
I guess the only question left is which cities are going to burn?
 
2013-06-21 10:34:15 PM
 Perpetuous Procrastination: This can obviously become a complex continuum based on what a reasonable person deems "imminent threat," but you're insane if you think a reasonable person isn't going to give benefit of the doubt to the victim first, should an aggressor be determined with sufficient probability.

Yup.  Now all the prosecution has to do is come up with some evidence where Zimmerman is saying he is going to beat Martin's ass.

All we have though, is evidence where the girlfriend says that Martin refused to leave the scene.
Zimm will likely say that when the officer told him he didnt need to follow Martin, that Zimmerman turned around to go back to his car and that is when Martin jumped out and said 'why you following me' and jumped him.

Even if Zimmerman found martin, that isnt going to be said.  It will be Zimmerman's side of the story that he was just minding his own business walking back to the car.
 
2013-06-21 10:47:11 PM

Perpetuous Procrastination: Phinn: gimmegimme: Hey, it's not me determining the extent of Zimmy's injuries. The doctors kept him in the hospital for several weeks for a reason, right? The surgeons who put his face back together knew what they were doing. They're heroes.

You still haven't read a single word of criminal law, have you?

There's no shame in that.  But it does make you look very silly when you pretend to know things you clearly don't.

For the 80th time today, the legal standard is not based on whether Martin actually caused fatal, or even potentially fatal, injuries to GZ.  The issue is whether GZ reasonably believed that Martin was imminently threatening to.

You don't actually have to wait until your skull opens before you are allowed to exercise your right to self-defense.

Ironically, that's the exact same point the prosecution will likely argue in favor of Martin defending himself from Zimmerman.

This isn't the court of law - not a single person here is obligated to hold the opinion that Zimmerman is innocent; someone has to/is going to weigh the evidence and determine it's against Zimmerman - that's kind of the entire point of an adversarial system.

P.S. The force continuum in self-defense isn't a two-way street. If you instigate an attack, the victim has the legal right to escalate their force to match and/or exceed the aggressor in order to prevent injury; the aggressor, by law, is already committing a crime by attacking the victim and as such is  not entitled to any self-defense right with the exception of the victim exceeding what is necessary to prevent injury (IE using a gun to prevent injury from someone poking them with a blunt stick). This can obviously become a complex continuum based on what a reasonable person deems "imminent threat," but you're insane if you think a reasonable person isn't going to give benefit of the doubt to the victim first, should an aggressor be determined with sufficient probability.


Fark is not a court of law, yet every two-bit nonsense-machine feels the need to hold forth on what the law actually is. I don't see a lot of ignorant losers pretending to know the intricate details of aerodynamics every time an article refers to an airplane, but when it comes to criminal law, the instant experts seem to come out in droves. They're embarassing themselves.

As it turns out, you're one of them because you're wrong too. Martin's use of (and right to) self-defense is irrelevant. He's not on trial. Martin does not need to have been within his self-defense rights for GZ to be guilty, nor vice versa. The only issue in this case is focused on GZ's perspective. More specifically, the focus of the court ought to be on the sufficiency of the evidence available to disprove GZ's claim of self-defense. It's just not there.

If there were any evidence of GZ committing a crime against Martin prior to the shooting, they'd have alleged it. But the evidence of a preceding crime is even weaker than the evidence as to the murder charge.
 
2013-06-22 03:33:26 AM

trickymoo: IronOcelot: So many people are going to freak when Zimmerman walks.

There were riots for Rodney King.

If he walks, there will be riots in Florida.

Bet me on this.


I've put money against your mouth, yet no results! What went wrong!?!
 
2013-06-22 05:48:15 AM

megarian: I don't really see a problem with this, but I'm not sure if this represents a jury of his peers adequately.


Well, mall cops usually work during the day...

/kidding!
 
2013-06-22 07:20:58 AM

Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.


Here's hoping that both of your stereotyping of how mothers supposedly think is irrelevant to the case and that their verdict is based solely on a careful and considered analysis the facts as presented at the trial which I am confident not you, I or any of the other 'experts' in this thread actually have a full or accurate accounting of.
 
2013-06-22 10:04:35 AM

Greymalkin: Here's hoping that... their verdict is based solely on a careful and considered analysis the facts as presented at the trial...


As someone who has been on two juries, I find this extremely funny.
 
2013-06-22 08:03:12 PM

Greymalkin: Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.

Here's hoping that both of your stereotyping of how mothers supposedly think is irrelevant to the case and that their verdict is based solely on a careful and considered analysis the facts as presented at the trial which I am confident not you, I or any of the other 'experts' in this thread actually have a full or accurate accounting of.


Of three given scenarios above, I believe Greymalkin's to be the least likely.
 
2013-06-22 09:35:26 PM

Frederick: Greymalkin: Magnanimous_J: gimmegimme: Five of the jurors are mothers; here's hoping they'll think about what it's like when your 17-year-old kid is shot down in cold blood with a can of iced tea in his hand.

Because appealing to illogical emotion is the only chance the prosecution has.

Or maybe the jurors will think about what it's like to be attacked in your own neighborhood by a violent thug. I hear women aren't big fans of that.

Here's hoping that both of your stereotyping of how mothers supposedly think is irrelevant to the case and that their verdict is based solely on a careful and considered analysis the facts as presented at the trial which I am confident not you, I or any of the other 'experts' in this thread actually have a full or accurate accounting of.

Of three given scenarios above, I believe Greymalkin's to be the least likely.


Well I did say "hoping", "expecting" would have been too optimistic.

Nonetheless those actively hoping for the justice system to be shiatty to get the outcome they want are not helping the justice system be any better.
 
Displayed 200 of 200 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report