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(Crooks & Liars)   Billionaire wants to raise minimum wage: "My annual earnings equal about 1,000 times the U.S. median wage, but I don't consume 1,000 times more pillows than the average American"   (crooksandliars.com) divider line 199
    More: Cool, U.S., Americans, Nick Hanauer, minimum wages, Alan Krueger, business peoples  
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2787 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Jun 2013 at 12:01 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-21 10:18:42 AM
Yes, but he bought a yacht and a sportscar so a couple of families in the Netherlands and Italy are having spaghettis.
 
2013-06-21 10:21:12 AM
A friend of mine just gave a TED talk.  Do you know what makes one feel like an idiot?  When everyone in your social circle is asked to give a TED talk but you.

That I was asked to teach nursery school kids how to fingerpaint with chocolate pudding doesn't help matters.
 
2013-06-21 10:25:49 AM
"My annual earnings equal about 1,000 times the U.S. median wage, but I don't consume 1,000 times more pillows than the average American"

If you want to raise minimum wage, why don't you pay your workers more!

/Republican response to Buffet's 'raise taxes on the rich' altered to fit this argument.
 
2013-06-21 10:38:09 AM
Raising the minimum wage is easy when you are a billionaire, but when you are a very small business, it's not so easy.

/plus, that just means prices go up to compensate
//and there went your raise
 
2013-06-21 10:40:51 AM
That's a hell of a hill to climb.  Small business owners don't have the same resources a megacorp has when it comes to boosting the minimum wage (unless you set up some kind of waiver program for businesses that only make just so much revenue or profit).
 
2013-06-21 10:40:58 AM

basemetal: Raising the minimum wage is easy when you are a billionaire, but when you are a very small business, it's not so easy.

/plus, that just means prices go up to compensate
//and there went your raise


what does "raise" mean?
 
2013-06-21 10:42:25 AM
But I bet there are categories in which he does buy 1000 more of, food, travel, gifts, etc.

Unless he just hordes it in mason jars in his back yard money always gets used in some way, buying something or consolidating it to supply capital. Both of those keep the economy rolling regardless of how much money one individual has or doesn't have.
 
2013-06-21 10:42:31 AM
oh nick, you're not supposed to be consuming those pillows. we've talked about this, pal.
 
2013-06-21 10:44:45 AM

MasterAdkins: Unless he just hordes it in mason jars in his back yard money always gets used in some way, buying something or consolidating it to supply capital. Both of those keep the economy rolling regardless of how much money one individual has or doesn't have.


but it can be argued that the unprecedented concentration of capital into fewer hands has led to a glut of investment capital looking for safe investment outlets in which to park it. this isn't good for the economy since it leads to things like overly-creative derivatives markets and real estate bubbles.
 
2013-06-21 10:46:02 AM

basemetal: Raising the minimum wage is easy when you are a billionaire, but when you are a very small business, it's not so easy.

/plus, that just means prices go up to compensate
//and there went your raise


You are right, of course, but he is thinking about handling it a different way. He's talking about allowing the raise to trickle up. It's noble, but we know that's not what would happen.
 
2013-06-21 10:46:39 AM

thomps: MasterAdkins: Unless he just hordes it in mason jars in his back yard money always gets used in some way, buying something or consolidating it to supply capital. Both of those keep the economy rolling regardless of how much money one individual has or doesn't have.

but it can be argued that the unprecedented concentration of capital into fewer hands has led to a glut of investment capital looking for safe investment outlets in which to park it. this isn't good for the economy since it leads to things like overly-creative derivatives markets and real estate bubbles.


THIS damn it.
 
2013-06-21 10:47:11 AM

shanrick: basemetal: Raising the minimum wage is easy when you are a billionaire, but when you are a very small business, it's not so easy.

/plus, that just means prices go up to compensate
//and there went your raise

what does "raise" mean?


Very little when you're talking minimum wage.
 
2013-06-21 10:48:01 AM

shanrick: basemetal: Raising the minimum wage is easy when you are a billionaire, but when you are a very small business, it's not so easy.

/plus, that just means prices go up to compensate
//and there went your raise


If 100% the price of goods came from minimum wage labor, you would have a point.

So tell me, what does it mean if we can raise wages 20%, and prices only go up 5%?
 
2013-06-21 10:52:45 AM

impaler: "My annual earnings equal about 1,000 times the U.S. median wage, but I don't consume 1,000 times more pillows than the average American"

If you want to raise minimum wage, why don't you pay your workers more!

/Republican response to Buffet's 'raise taxes on the rich' altered to fit this argument.


Came to post this, see it's been covered.
 
2013-06-21 11:17:36 AM
So on the one hand, liberals want you to support local businesses like Joe's Hardware Store and Mom and Pop's Grocery, but on the other hand they want to raise minimum wage so high that only Home Depot and Wal-Mart can afford to pay their employees?
 
2013-06-21 11:21:03 AM

spman: So on the one hand, liberals want you to support local businesses like Joe's Hardware Store and Mom and Pop's Grocery, but on the other hand they want to raise minimum wage so high that only Home Depot and Wal-Mart can afford to pay their employees?


are small businesses more labor intensive than their big business counterparts?  is that where the big businesses are getting their margin advantage?
 
2013-06-21 11:24:42 AM

brap: A friend of mine just gave a TED talk.  Do you know what makes one feel like an idiot?  When everyone in your social circle is asked to give a TED talk but you.

That I was asked to teach nursery school kids how to fingerpaint with chocolate pudding doesn't help matters.



It could be worse...I don't even know anyone named Ted.
 
2013-06-21 11:31:35 AM

thomps: spman: So on the one hand, liberals want you to support local businesses like Joe's Hardware Store and Mom and Pop's Grocery, but on the other hand they want to raise minimum wage so high that only Home Depot and Wal-Mart can afford to pay their employees?

are small businesses more labor intensive than their big business counterparts?  is that where the big businesses are getting their margin advantage?


The economics of big business vs small business is completely different, and has nothing to do with labor. Wal-Mart has complete control over their suppliers and can dictate prices, and have numerous revenue streams that keep them raking in the billions. Joe's hardware store barely makes enough to cover overhead, pay suppliers, employees, and still pay the bills for Joe. Even an extra $500 a week in labor costs is going to make a big difference to him. It may also make him less hesitant to expand his business because it would mean having to hire more employees that he can't afford.
 
2013-06-21 11:34:25 AM

spman: thomps: spman: So on the one hand, liberals want you to support local businesses like Joe's Hardware Store and Mom and Pop's Grocery, but on the other hand they want to raise minimum wage so high that only Home Depot and Wal-Mart can afford to pay their employees?

are small businesses more labor intensive than their big business counterparts?  is that where the big businesses are getting their margin advantage?

The economics of big business vs small business is completely different, and has nothing to do with labor. Wal-Mart has complete control over their suppliers and can dictate prices, and have numerous revenue streams that keep them raking in the billions. Joe's hardware store barely makes enough to cover overhead, pay suppliers, employees, and still pay the bills for Joe. Even an extra $500 a week in labor costs is going to make a big difference to him. It may also make him less hesitant to expand his business because it would mean having to hire more employees that he can't afford.


but if labor scales proportionately, then raising labor costs equally across an industry shouldn't change the competitive landscape right?
 
2013-06-21 11:47:04 AM

thomps: spman: So on the one hand, liberals want you to support local businesses like Joe's Hardware Store and Mom and Pop's Grocery, but on the other hand they want to raise minimum wage so high that only Home Depot and Wal-Mart can afford to pay their employees?

are small businesses more labor intensive than their big business counterparts?  is that where the big businesses are getting their margin advantage?


Yes. No.
 
2013-06-21 11:55:04 AM
img.fark.net
In for the TED talk.
 
2013-06-21 12:02:52 PM

impaler: "My annual earnings equal about 1,000 times the U.S. median wage, but I don't consume 1,000 times more pillows than the average American"

If you want to raise minimum wage, why don't you pay your workers more!

/Republican response to Buffet's 'raise taxes on the rich' altered to fit this argument.


How do you know he doesn't?
 
2013-06-21 12:05:17 PM
I think the billionaire has been having some pretty vivid giant-marshmallow-related dreams.
 
2013-06-21 12:07:07 PM
Didn't we have this thread yesterday?
 
2013-06-21 12:07:15 PM

Arkanaut: How do you know he doesn't?


It's irrelevant. I'm pointing out the stupidity of Republican's criticism of Buffet.
 
2013-06-21 12:11:03 PM
Why stop at $15? If $15 will inject $450 billion, raise it to $30. That's $900 billion! Or better: $75 per hour! That's $2,250,000,000,000 into the economy!
 
2013-06-21 12:12:37 PM

Mangoose: basemetal: Raising the minimum wage is easy when you are a billionaire, but when you are a very small business, it's not so easy.

/plus, that just means prices go up to compensate
//and there went your raise

You are right, of course, but he is thinking about handling it a different way. He's talking about allowing the raise to trickle up. It's noble, but we know that's not what would happen.


Except that's exactly what happened in the 50s. The gov't had amazing social programs supported by taxes for the rich, and the county on average saw steady growth. It wasn't until the culture of maximizing profit took over and regulations were cut that we started this boom/bust cycle. It's stoppable; the solution just isn't popular yet.
 
2013-06-21 12:13:10 PM

AiryAnne: Why stop at $15? If $15 will inject $450 billion, raise it to $30. That's $900 billion! Or better: $75 per hour! That's $2,250,000,000,000 into the economy!


Apparently the concept that a cost/benefit curve might have a peak, escapes you.
 
2013-06-21 12:14:02 PM
I am entering middle age now and for a majority of that time have been in search of the perfect pillow. I've tried memory foam, the pillow that is contoured, dips in the middle, the Sobakawa tm, and a variety of "custom-fitted" pillows from Denver Matress, Bed, Bath and Beyond, Target, The Sleep Shop, etc, to no avail. Any one have any suggestions for a mostly side-sleeper?
 
2013-06-21 12:14:26 PM

MasterAdkins: But I bet there are categories in which he does buy 1000 more of, food, travel, gifts, etc.

Unless he just hordes it in mason jars in his back yard money always gets used in some way, buying something or consolidating it to supply capital. Both of those keep the economy rolling regardless of how much money one individual has or doesn't have.


He spends the bulk of his money making more money, not consuming goods or using it to make a capital purchase.  It is rents (you know that third bit the capitalist economy that has labor, capital, and rent).  Rents add nothing, they just extract.

You don't even need the paper anymore, you can just push 1s and 0s around
 
2013-06-21 12:15:05 PM

TrainingWheelsNeeded: I am entering middle age now and for a majority of that time have been in search of the perfect pillow. I've tried memory foam, the pillow that is contoured, dips in the middle, the Sobakawa tm, and a variety of "custom-fitted" pillows from Denver Matress, Bed, Bath and Beyond, Target, The Sleep Shop, etc, to no avail. Any one have any suggestions for a mostly side-sleeper?


Chubby mistress.
 
2013-06-21 12:16:59 PM
Where's your other hand?
 
2013-06-21 12:17:00 PM
seems somebody just read about the  Ricardian trade theory.
 
2013-06-21 12:19:01 PM

MichiganFTL: TrainingWheelsNeeded: I am entering middle age now and for a majority of that time have been in search of the perfect pillow. I've tried memory foam, the pillow that is contoured, dips in the middle, the Sobakawa tm, and a variety of "custom-fitted" pillows from Denver Matress, Bed, Bath and Beyond, Target, The Sleep Shop, etc, to no avail. Any one have any suggestions for a mostly side-sleeper?

Chubby mistress.


I'm afraid to search that at work, but will search once i get home, for, you know, research purposes.
 
2013-06-21 12:19:52 PM

TrainingWheelsNeeded: I am entering middle age now and for a majority of that time have been in search of the perfect pillow. I've tried memory foam, the pillow that is contoured, dips in the middle, the Sobakawa tm, and a variety of "custom-fitted" pillows from Denver Matress, Bed, Bath and Beyond, Target, The Sleep Shop, etc, to no avail. Any one have any suggestions for a mostly side-sleeper?


I have the same problem. The best pillows for side sleepers used to be Ralph Lauren extra firm, carried at major department stores. They were so fat, but also firm. Your head wouldn't sink into them, causing the pillow to fold up around your head, putting you in a claustrophobic state. They actually supported your head and neck and were great. But they changed them like 10 years ago, and they aren't good anymore, so I still have the same ones I bought 15 years ago and they are still better than brand new ones I buy. I end up throwing the new ones out and going back to the old ones.
 
2013-06-21 12:21:08 PM

mr lawson: seems somebody just read about the  Ricardian trade theory.


Well, it's better than the copy of "Ferengi Rules of Acquisition" that seems to be making the rounds.
 
2013-06-21 12:22:58 PM

impaler: AiryAnne: Why stop at $15? If $15 will inject $450 billion, raise it to $30. That's $900 billion! Or better: $75 per hour! That's $2,250,000,000,000 into the economy!

Apparently the concept that a cost/benefit curve might have a peak, escapes you.


What's the peak?
 
2013-06-21 12:23:20 PM
Just like with schools, let's continue to focus on the lowest common denominator and lose sight of the actual problem.
 
2013-06-21 12:26:37 PM
Higher minimum wage = higher unemployment.

Why?

Higher minimum wage = higher output efficiency (read: "worked harder") or else any type of low margin/commoditized business (read: most minimum wage type industries) will fail

Some businesses will close up shop, some will learn to get by with fewer workers, some will hire free interns or graduate students, and some will outsource more labor to overseas.  It also increases the competitiveness of labor alternatives.  Such as it might make more economic sense to buy Quicken Pro or invest in robotics than hire an office assistant or manual laborer.

It's not a fun decision, but if you want a higher minimum wage then you can't complain about high unemployment and being overworked.

The universe has a balance to it. People get paid according to the value of their output.  There are rules that simply cannot be avoided, so if you screw with this balance then there will be consequences (readjustments to obtain a new balance).  Just be prepared to deal with them.

At a time when everybody is constantly complaining about high unemployment, outsourced jobs, and managers expecting higher output, this seems like a really bad idea.
 
2013-06-21 12:26:43 PM
I'd rather fight for the median wage to be risen than the minimum wage.  I have always looked at minimum wage as unskilled labor (and even that generally gets paid more if it is strenuous / not being paid under the table).
 
2013-06-21 12:28:52 PM

AiryAnne: impaler: AiryAnne: Why stop at $15? If $15 will inject $450 billion, raise it to $30. That's $900 billion! Or better: $75 per hour! That's $2,250,000,000,000 into the economy!

Apparently the concept that a cost/benefit curve might have a peak, escapes you.

What's the peak?


Somewhere on my Laugher Curve.  That's not a typo.
 
2013-06-21 12:31:20 PM

brap: A friend of mine just gave a TED talk.  Do you know what makes one feel like an idiot?  When everyone in your social circle is asked to give a TED talk but you.

That I was asked to teach nursery school kids how to fingerpaint with chocolate pudding doesn't help matters.


What kind of a nursery school kid needs to be taught to fingerpaint with chocolate pudding?!
 
2013-06-21 12:32:17 PM
img.fark.net


Hell yeah!

A Billionaire who finally wants us to RANK BETTER THAN IRAN or CAMEROON in terms of income equality!
 
2013-06-21 12:33:51 PM

basemetal: Raising the minimum wage is easy when you are a billionaire, but when you are a very small business, it's not so easy.

/plus, that just means prices go up to compensate
//and there went your raise


The speaker speaks more about taxing the rich to improve 'Merica across the board - infrastructure, social programs, education. This would be as meaningful as raising minimum wage, and would not affect the small business owner nearly as much.
 
2013-06-21 12:40:39 PM

AiryAnne: impaler: AiryAnne: Why stop at $15? If $15 will inject $450 billion, raise it to $30. That's $900 billion! Or better: $75 per hour! That's $2,250,000,000,000 into the economy!

Apparently the concept that a cost/benefit curve might have a peak, escapes you.

What's the peak?


About 1973-74

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-21 12:40:48 PM

basemetal: Raising the minimum wage is easy when you are a billionaire, but when you are a very small business, it's not so easy.

/plus, that just means prices go up to compensate
//and there went your raise


It's more than that.  It also will cause the wealth gap to increase dramatically.

Lets say Minimum wage is 10 bucks an hour and you are making 30 bucks an hour.  Next week they up minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour.  Do you think you are going to go to 35 or 37.5 /hr when this happen?  Now prices on everything goes up and you who was doing well at 30 bucks an hour is now significantly poorer.  Since the prices went up on everything that billionaire has now padded on several more billion due to the min wage increase.  Who cares right? when he only needs 1 pillow if the cost goes up 20% when his networth went up 50%.

I would much rather suck money out by way of "poor tax" from rich people and hand it to the ultra poor (By way of housing/supplies/food !cash) than raise minimum wage and screw everyone but the truly wealthy.
 
2013-06-21 12:44:31 PM

Kazrath: It's more than that.  It also will cause the wealth gap to increase dramatically.

Lets say Minimum wage is 10 bucks an hour and you are making 30 bucks an hour.  Next week they up minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour.  Do you think you are going to go to 35 or 37.5 /hr when this happen?  Now prices on everything goes up and you who was doing well at 30 bucks an hour is now significantly poorer.  Since the prices went up on everything that billionaire has now padded on several more billion due to the min wage increase


So prices go up to pay the minimum wage increase, and somehow the billionaire is taking this money (that is going to the wage increase) as profit?

You suck at math.
 
2013-06-21 12:46:02 PM

Foundling: What kind of a nursery school kid needs to be taught to fingerpaint with chocolate pudding?!


The kind that would have me give a SPED talk.
 
2013-06-21 12:47:14 PM

plcow: Higher minimum wage = higher unemployment.

The employment effect of the minimum wage is one of the most studied topics in all of economics.
This report examines the most recent wave of this research - roughly since 2000 - to determine the
best current estimates of the impact of increases in the minimum wage on the employment
prospects of low-wage workers. The weight of that evidence points to little or no employment
response to modest increases in the minimum wage
.


Link
 
2013-06-21 12:49:21 PM

meat0918: AiryAnne: impaler: AiryAnne: Why stop at $15? If $15 will inject $450 billion, raise it to $30. That's $900 billion! Or better: $75 per hour! That's $2,250,000,000,000 into the economy!

Apparently the concept that a cost/benefit curve might have a peak, escapes you.

What's the peak?

About 1973-74


img.fark.net

FARKING NIXON.  That's who did this and then Reagan finished the job in the 80s (accelerated disparity).
 
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