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(Talking Points Memo)   StopHillary2016.org is now a thing. From the creator, a Romney manager, "Obama's 4 year head start let him win" No, not being mentally incompetent helped him win. But go fight your windmills   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 45
    More: Amusing, Mitt Romney, political action committees, executive directors, Republican, Matt Rhoades  
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783 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Jun 2013 at 9:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-06-21 10:05:38 AM
3 votes:

Churchill2004: I'm saying it's a myth that Clinton was an unusually "peaceful" President.


You're saying something that's not true. You can't just rattle off a list of things and completely ignore their intensity then declare yourself correct solely by quantity. The vast majority of things you listed off had very small theaters of operations that lasted only briefly and were NATO operations to boot. None resulted in mass causalities and as a whole there were only a few U.S. casualties at all. The Haiti example is particularly bullshiat since the entire thing was resolved before the damned troops even landed. And even the one particularly violent example you listed, Somalia, resulted in only about 100 U.S. casualties including wounded.

You're full of crap. The United States is constantly enforcing its interests around the world and that didn't change under Clinton, but what you didn't see under Clinton, which you did see under many other administration through the 20th and 21st centuries, were any large, full-scale conflicts, particularly after Mogadishu made him gun-shy about putting boots on the ground in dangerous situations.

Hell, more U.S. casualties occurred just in Grenada than in the entire 9 years we spent in Bosnia. More Americans were killed in Beirut than in all the Clinton interventions combined.

Again, I say, you're full of crap.
2013-06-21 09:46:16 AM
3 votes:
Everybody tying Clinton to Somalia...um, thing is, you know who initially sent US troops into Somalia, right? Now, it's easy to forget, given that it was a rare occasion when a Democratic president had to start his tenure in office cleaning up the mess from when the previous president was in over his head.
2013-06-21 09:27:49 AM
3 votes:

Philip Francis Queeg: America Rising was formed to prevent Americans from ever having to see another Clinton in the White House.

Yes, the peace and prosperity of the Clinton years truly was a dark time in American history.


www.joeydevilla.com
Nice foresight, Onion.
2013-06-21 09:24:19 AM
3 votes:
Romney had been running for the presidency since 2005. Didn't help him.
2013-06-21 09:19:05 AM
3 votes:
This headline is not a good headline.
2013-06-21 09:54:38 AM
2 votes:

Churchill2004: Philip Francis Queeg: Iran, Iraq, and Honduras

None of these had American military involved- and I'm not trying to say Reagan was great. His wars sucked too. I'm saying it's a myth that Clinton was an unusually "peaceful" President.


Yes, as a matter of fact they did have US military involved. You might recall that we were blowing things up on a pretty regular basis in the Persian Gulf during the Iran-Iraq war, and occasionally got blown up in return (i.e. USS Stark). As for Honduras, we deployed troops from the 7th Infantry Division and the 82nd Airborne in March of 1988.
2013-06-21 09:48:34 AM
2 votes:
Haiti

I wouldn't call our intervention in Haiti a war.
2013-06-21 09:40:41 AM
2 votes:

Philip Francis Queeg: Oh do tell what wars Clinton fought.


I don't know what he's on about, specifically, but launching cruise missiles from afar and enforcing no fly zones counts as "fighting wars" to these idiots.

These are the same morons, after all, who, from Sept. 10 1998 to Sept. 10 2001 couldn't find enough saliva to keep up their blathering about Clinton's "dog wagging" attacks on Al Qaeda then, on Sept. 12 2001 couldn't catch a breath between their attempts at blaming him for not doing anything to stop them from committing the 9/11 attacks.
2013-06-21 09:25:58 AM
2 votes:
All they need to do is present their rational agenda disapassionately and calmly:

1. She has lady parts and will start crying during a crisis
2. She murdered Vince Foster
3. She is Satan incarnate, also Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and with another slot for a rotating set of dictators to be named on an as-needed basis
4. She will bribe lazy urbanites to vote for her in exchange for free stuff
5. She will bribe illegals to vote for her in exchange for citizenship and free stuff
6. She is teh ghey and will force your children to be teh ghey

They can't possibly fail if they stick to this simple plan.  It's when they start adding on the weird, crazy stuff that things go wrong.
2013-06-21 09:21:13 AM
2 votes:
I guess this guy doesn't realize that the longer a Republican campaigns, the longer he will have to pretend to be a reasonable human being.  You will slip up, it's inevitable...  you won't know a mic is live, or you won't know that you're secretly being videotaped or you'll just forget yourself and say what you really believe.  Starting a campaign this early when you actually require tricking a majority of people is a mistake.
2013-06-21 09:17:27 AM
2 votes:
Grifters gonna grift.
2013-06-21 10:19:51 AM
1 votes:

Churchill2004: Which is equally true of Reagan


Out of curiosity, who, aside from you, pushed this comparison anyway? You seem to be the only person debating that angle.

Churchill2004: And I think it's ridiculous to say what happened in Serbia wasn't a war


Who said it wasn't? The point is that it was a particularly low-key war for the U.S. and resulted in few casualties. According the wiki article, in fact, there were only two U.S. deaths and they were non-combat; it would appear we mostly lost equipment.

You can't just ignore the intensity of the war if you're going to argue about the relative status of peacefulness. Two wars are not automatically equally violent just because they're both wars.

Churchill2004: Again, so only American casualties count


Again, yea, if you're going to talk about the peacefulness of AMERICA.

I can only assume your goalpost-shifting and strawmen are an implicit admittance that you're completely wrong?
2013-06-21 10:13:47 AM
1 votes:

TheBigJerk: Satan's Bunny Slippers: MichiganFTL: Satan's Bunny Slippers: I.....I don't even know what to say to things like this anymore.  the GOP has completely, collectively, absolutely lost it's entire frikkin' mind.  This kind of pants wetting, bed shiatting crying to mommie antic is now their norm.  And they will lose again, and blame everyone but themselves, just like they do now.

I need more coffee, or vodak, or something.  Maybe acid.

Well thanks for playing into their strategy jerk. They know if they're insane long enough they'll drive you to drink acid/kill yourself and then they'll have one less voter against them.

Now that I've mopped the coffee off the keys...thank you for making their diabolical plan clear and saving me from furthering their cause!  How could I have been so blind?

Actually, smart money says this is just a regular old shake-down, collecting money from rubes who have hated Hillary since they were first told to in the 90s and don't even know WHY, they just do.


Oh I agree completely.  Which of course is right back to the bed wetting pants shiatting antics they are so fond of.  Everything that isn't babby jeezus/rich old white man approved is skeeeery!  Must collect more money for the rich!  We don't know why, but they tell us it's what we must do!

I used to weep for them.  Now I just can't wait for them to finish imploding.  Even the shills here don't have much to say anymore.
2013-06-21 10:07:45 AM
1 votes:

Satan's Bunny Slippers: MichiganFTL: Satan's Bunny Slippers: I.....I don't even know what to say to things like this anymore.  the GOP has completely, collectively, absolutely lost it's entire frikkin' mind.  This kind of pants wetting, bed shiatting crying to mommie antic is now their norm.  And they will lose again, and blame everyone but themselves, just like they do now.

I need more coffee, or vodak, or something.  Maybe acid.

Well thanks for playing into their strategy jerk. They know if they're insane long enough they'll drive you to drink acid/kill yourself and then they'll have one less voter against them.

Now that I've mopped the coffee off the keys...thank you for making their diabolical plan clear and saving me from furthering their cause!  How could I have been so blind?


Actually, smart money says this is just a regular old shake-down, collecting money from rubes who have hated Hillary since they were first told to in the 90s and don't even know WHY, they just do.
2013-06-21 10:07:09 AM
1 votes:

Churchill2004: So only American casualties count?


When you're talking about peace in America, yea, any more dumb questions?
2013-06-21 10:07:04 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: You have a choice between running for President(something you've already done, and done well) or giving it all up to someone else.


Let's be honest, Hillary did not run well in 2008. Her campaign was pretty much constantly in reaction modes, one step behind the Obama campaign. Her campaign neglected the smaller primary states to a large degree, and they simply did not build up the ground organization they needed to win. They assumed they would get the nomination, and that made them very complacent.
2013-06-21 10:02:57 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: James!: Nope.

She's already locked down all the Iowa committee members for her and her people are currently making calls into New York, New Jersey, and PA.  She's either running or is locking everyone ahead of time so the Clinton's can pick the next President of the United States.


Probably her only real challenge might be Julian Castro, which I would much rather see him become her Vice Presidential pick. Put him in the stable for a few years, let him have two terms of executive branch experience then you have a prime candidate right in the middle of a latino surge in demographics. You have the transition of Obama to Clinton to Castro, which are three strong candidates if they can keep their noses clean. Because lets be honest, 2016 is gonna be a powerhouse year for Democrats. Obamacare is going to be in effect for two years, Afghanistan is gonna be done, the deficit will be lower, you have tons of money already established in the coffers, permanent grassroots organizations for national campaigns, and most importantly TWO Democratic Presidents who have favorable ratings. If the republicans cannot pick up steam then they will not be able to step outside the arena of state politics for a good while. 

/State politics is the only area where republicans seem to be gaining ground.
2013-06-21 09:59:32 AM
1 votes:
Another misfired Republican strategy.  They are focusing solely on the other side's leaders without building up any leaders of their own.  Who do they support?  Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are not going to run.  If the focus is all about Hillary, she already dominates the discussion and will win.

That leaves the Republicans with Bobby Jindal (idiot) and Marco Rubio (idiot).  Good luck with those guys.
2013-06-21 09:56:07 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: James!: Nope.

She's already locked down all the Iowa committee members for her and her people are currently making calls into New York, New Jersey, and PA.  She's either running or is locking everyone ahead of time so the Clinton's can pick the next President of the United States.


I find the second one more likely.
2013-06-21 09:55:22 AM
1 votes:

WippitGuud: Weren't those NATO actions, and not exclusively a US decision? (unlike Iraq)


Almost everything on his list was NATO intervention (although, as usual, we were the bulk of forces in those types of operations) or cruise missile strikes and most of them resulted in few if any casualties for NATO forces in general and our troops in particular. I'd be willing to bet that in most of those cases more U.S. soldiers were injured or killed in routine training during the time periods of those 'wars' he rattled off.

Compared to the prior century what with World I, II, Korea, Vietnam, numerous skirmishes in South America, Libya, Lebanon and significant internal strife in the 60s and 70s and the two wars that followed from 2001 to today, you'd have to be pretty damn stupid to argue that Clinton's tenure, particularly the last 3/4 or so of it, weren't an unusually quiet time.
2013-06-21 09:54:10 AM
1 votes:
Da fuq is that headline even trying to say? Headline is shiat, submitter.
2013-06-21 09:53:14 AM
1 votes:
stophillary is a website consisting of nothing but a non-flattering picture of Hillary Clinton, two short paragraphs and a pledge form which allows you to enter credit card info.  How can I get into that business?
2013-06-21 09:49:05 AM
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: FlashHarry: HotWingConspiracy: [www.rumproast.com image 480x239]

ok, please tell me that's real and from pre-election 2012.

It sure is. They actually announced it the day of the election, if I am recalling correctly. Never did go live, can't imagine why.


so awesome.

you know, i used to hate the right-wing echo chamber, but now it brings me endless pleasure.
2013-06-21 09:48:13 AM
1 votes:

Churchill2004: Really? Somalia, Sudan, Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bosnia, Serbia/Kosovo.... vs. Libya and Lebanon for Reagan (feel free to tell me any I'm missing for Reagan).


So, basically, a bunch of U.N. enforcement operations, most of which resulted in little to no casualties on the U.N. side and hardly any for the U.S., count as "wars" in your book?

Aside from Somalia, that's a pretty shiatty list if you're trying to argue against the "peace" angle, especially considering what proceeded him and it's just completely incomparable to most of the rest of the 20th century.

Yea, I'll take the Clinton years, thanks.
2013-06-21 09:47:53 AM
1 votes:

ShadowKamui: Philip Francis Queeg: Churchill2004: Philip Francis Queeg: peace

Clinton fought more wars/interventions than Reagan.

Oh do tell what wars Clinton fought.

Uh Bosnia, Somalia and a bunch of random missile strikes


Weren't those NATO actions, and not exclusively a US decision? (unlike Iraq)
2013-06-21 09:46:49 AM
1 votes:

ShadowKamui: Grenada


Yup, forgot that one. Clinton still beats Reagan for number of military interventions, though. According to those here though, Grenada wasn't "big enough" to be a "real war".

It's only from the post-Iraq perspective that the 90's look "peaceful" for America.
2013-06-21 09:45:10 AM
1 votes:

Churchill2004: Philip Francis Queeg: Churchill2004: Philip Francis Queeg: peace

Clinton fought more wars/interventions than Reagan.

Oh do tell what wars Clinton fought.

Really? Somalia, Sudan, Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bosnia, Serbia/Kosovo.... vs. Libya and Lebanon for Reagan (feel free to tell me any I'm missing for Reagan).


Yeah, you're missing several for Reagan.

I'm surprised you forgot about his great achievement of invading Grenada as a distraction from the Beirut bombing.
2013-06-21 09:42:59 AM
1 votes:

Churchill2004: Philip Francis Queeg: Churchill2004: Philip Francis Queeg: peace

Clinton fought more wars/interventions than Reagan.

Oh do tell what wars Clinton fought.

Really? Somalia, Sudan, Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bosnia, Serbia/Kosovo.... vs. Libya and Lebanon for Reagan (feel free to tell me any I'm missing for Reagan).


Grenada
2013-06-21 09:42:46 AM
1 votes:

ShadowKamui: Philip Francis Queeg: Churchill2004: Philip Francis Queeg: peace

Clinton fought more wars/interventions than Reagan.

Oh do tell what wars Clinton fought.

Uh Bosnia, Somalia and a bunch of random missile strikes


That's an interesting thought.  Off the top of my head:

Official Reagan:  Beirut, Grenada, Libya.
Unofficial Reagan:  Iran arms sales, Iraq arms sales, Contra support, Mujhadeen support

Official Clinton:  Haiti, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq, al-Qaeda base strikes
Unofficial Clinton:  ?

Both:  Soviet proxy wars. More can of course be attributed to Reagan, but you can't rightly blame the president for maintaining status quo.
2013-06-21 09:42:30 AM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: HotWingConspiracy: [www.rumproast.com image 480x239]

ok, please tell me that's real and from pre-election 2012.


It sure is. They actually announced it the day of the election, if I am recalling correctly. Never did go live, can't imagine why.
2013-06-21 09:42:19 AM
1 votes:
Hillary is not going to run in 2016.
2013-06-21 09:40:26 AM
1 votes:

Philip Francis Queeg: Churchill2004: Philip Francis Queeg: peace

Clinton fought more wars/interventions than Reagan.

Oh do tell what wars Clinton fought.


Really? Somalia, Sudan, Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bosnia, Serbia/Kosovo.... vs. Libya and Lebanon for Reagan (feel free to tell me any I'm missing for Reagan).
2013-06-21 09:38:54 AM
1 votes:

ShadowKamui: Philip Francis Queeg: Churchill2004: Philip Francis Queeg: peace

Clinton fought more wars/interventions than Reagan.

Oh do tell what wars Clinton fought.

Uh Bosnia, Somalia and a bunch of random missile strikes


Random missile strikes are now "wars"?
2013-06-21 09:38:17 AM
1 votes:
I'm starting www.Husbands4Hillary.org for us liberal men who would have voted for her anyway, but who value the extra poontang that goes along with being an early and overt Hillary supporter.

You can thank me now... ;^)

/the spousal unit is mad for Hiilary
2013-06-21 09:37:56 AM
1 votes:

Pants full of macaroni!!: I love how everyone of both parties ASSUMES Hillary's going to be the Dem nominee for '16.  Nobody else is even being considered.  They probably won't even bother having a primary.


I don't think she's going to run. I have been fairly certain she will not since she agreed to leave the Senate to become Secretary of sate.
2013-06-21 09:37:56 AM
1 votes:

Philip Francis Queeg: Churchill2004: Philip Francis Queeg: peace

Clinton fought more wars/interventions than Reagan.

Oh do tell what wars Clinton fought.


Uh Bosnia, Somalia and a bunch of random missile strikes
2013-06-21 09:37:20 AM
1 votes:

Kibbler: All they need to do is present their rational agenda disapassionately and calmly:

1. She has lady parts and will start crying during a crisis
2. She murdered Vince Foster
3. She is Satan incarnate, also Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and with another slot for a rotating set of dictators to be named on an as-needed basis
4. She will bribe lazy urbanites to vote for her in exchange for free stuff
5. She will bribe illegals to vote for her in exchange for citizenship and free stuff
6. She is teh ghey and will force your children to be teh ghey

They can't possibly fail if they stick to this simple plan.  It's when they start adding on the weird, crazy stuff that things go wrong.


You forgot:

7. Tax cuts for the rich.
2013-06-21 09:37:14 AM
1 votes:

Pants full of macaroni!!: I love how everyone of both parties ASSUMES Hillary's going to be the Dem nominee for '16.  Nobody else is even being considered.  They probably won't even bother having a primary.


Don't you remember that epic Hillary/Rudy election back in 2004?
2013-06-21 09:35:47 AM
1 votes:

Churchill2004: Philip Francis Queeg: peace

Clinton fought more wars/interventions than Reagan.


Oh do tell what wars Clinton fought.
2013-06-21 09:32:55 AM
1 votes:

Philip Francis Queeg: America Rising was formed to prevent Americans from ever having to see another Clinton in the White House.

img.fark.net
"Well...funk YOU, America Rising. I didn't want the job any way."
2013-06-21 09:30:16 AM
1 votes:
When your hate of the opposition is stronger than the support of your candidate.
2013-06-21 09:29:59 AM
1 votes:
www.rumproast.com
2013-06-21 09:24:55 AM
1 votes:
America Rising was formed to prevent Americans from ever having to see another Clinton in the White House.

Yes, the peace and prosperity of the Clinton years truly was a dark time in American history.
2013-06-21 09:23:07 AM
1 votes:
https://www.stophillary2016.org/

And that's it, the whole page.

I think the GOP should continue to spend lots of time and energy preparing to run against Hillary, sort of for the same reason I think they should spend lots of time and energy combating voter fraud:it keeps them busy not addressing the structural and ideological issues in their own party,

And for the LULZ, never forget the LULZ.
2013-06-21 09:21:18 AM
1 votes:
Yesterday I saw a sign in a window: "I'm Ready for Hillary."
*shudder*
 
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