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(Dallas News)   General Motors brands have fewer quality problems than Toyota, Honda or Ford. Chrysler immediately complains, says it has less quality than anyone   (bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Honda, Chrysler, J.D., company, MyFord Touch, Chevy Tahoe, Infiniti, Motor Trend  
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865 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Jun 2013 at 10:30 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-21 10:39:28 AM  
Wow, they scored high on a JD Power survey.

How much did it cost for the rating?
 
2013-06-21 11:07:42 AM  
And you're still driving something from GM.
 
2013-06-21 11:21:16 AM  
meanwhile my Subaru has been plugging along at 40K miles now without even one tiny problem with it.
 
2013-06-21 11:26:41 AM  
I believe they are referring to initial quality? If so, good for them...however I would love to see how their vehicles fair after 100k miles - I imagine they would be much further down the list.
 
hej
2013-06-21 11:29:15 AM  

Girion47: meanwhile my Subaru has been plugging along at 40K miles now without even one tiny problem with it.


Is 40k a lot?
 
2013-06-21 11:30:12 AM  

hej: Girion47: meanwhile my Subaru has been plugging along at 40K miles now without even one tiny problem with it.

Is 40k a lot?


first car I've had go 3.5 years without an issue.
 
2013-06-21 11:31:37 AM  
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/first-drive-chevrolet-spark-ev-shocks-us-2 20022460.html

Consumer Reports loves the Chevy Spark EV. (They weren't so hot on the gas version)

"Turning the diminutive Spark into an EV transforms it into a punchy, zippy, fun little runabout, a far cry from the conventional, slow noisy and stiff Spark that earned a meager overall score in our tests."
 
2013-06-21 11:37:12 AM  

StopLurkListen: http://autos.yahoo.com/news/first-drive-chevrolet-spark-ev-shocks-us- 2 20022460.html

Consumer Reports loves the Chevy Spark EV. (They weren't so hot on the gas version)

"Turning the diminutive Spark into an EV transforms it into a punchy, zippy, fun little runabout, a far cry from the conventional, slow noisy and stiff Spark that earned a meager overall score in our tests."


I drive a 2012 Volt and it's a fun little car. The electric torque is nice especially in Sport mode. the only thing I hate is GM's refusal to update the software to include some features that are in the 2013 model.
 
2013-06-21 11:39:18 AM  
Good for them.  I was raised in a GM family and thought it was normal to constantly have things break on cars.

Until I got my first used Toyota.

On my fifth one now (2013 Camry Hybrid), and love the brand more than anything--I've never had problems with them that normal aging couldn't account for.

/Dad just bought a 2013 GMC Acadia--hope it works out.
 
2013-06-21 11:47:12 AM  
GM is improving, but I still notice in friends cars (I drive an 02 accord) that the interior colors don't always match and the panel textures don't match either.  My accord has the same color and grain on all the hard plastic (minus the horrible fake wood like plastic around the cupholders and door/window conrols), which if nothing else gives the interior a sense of being designed, rather than simply put together.
 
2013-06-21 11:51:27 AM  
Now that Chrysler is owned by Fix It Again Tony, the word "suck" will not be adequate to describe them.
 
WGJ [TotalFark]
2013-06-21 12:02:18 PM  
I've had all sorts of brands, they're all the same.
 
2013-06-21 12:10:19 PM  
My 2010 Tacoma has 73,000 kms on it. The closest thing you could consider to breaking was the front turn signal lights burning out.

My 1992 4Runner made it to just shy of 400,000 km, but the last 5 or so were abusing the hell out of it. It's my 4x4ing vehicle. Anyways, engine went boom. In the 150,000 kms that I owned it I replaced a small fitting having to do with the power steering with a new one, and the rear differential which i replaced with a locking rear diff.

My friend has been throwing about a grand per month into his Dodge Ram. His latest issue was one of his rear brake caliper bolts broke, so the caliper was free to swing on the one remaining bolt. He constantly teases me about my "not real pickup" and how I paid too much for it. My not real pickup can and does pull a pair of snowmobiles or a boat. It's still real to me, damnit!
 
2013-06-21 12:23:42 PM  
Chrysler outsources its manufacturing to China hence why all those Jeeps are getting recalled now.

Why can't Chrysler return those jobs to the United States? Thanks Obama.
 
2013-06-21 12:25:09 PM  
So is this the thread where we all chime in:

"I drive brand X, it has Y miles, all I have ever had to do is minor repair Z

my (neighbor/uncle/friend) drives brand A, it only has B miles, and he's already had to do repairs C, D, and E"


yes, those kinds of comments never get old...
 
2013-06-21 12:35:11 PM  
Note that this is the "J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey".  This is not a relaibility survey.

And, dforkus, I could always mention that my 2006 Scion xA has never needed a repair (other than consumables like tires, damage from accidents, and needing to replace the stereo under warranty), but I won't.  Oh wait, I just did.  My bad.
 
2013-06-21 12:35:16 PM  
GM.
The "high" setting on the A/C blower does not work.

Doesn't matter when it was made or which "brand" it was sold under.

The blower motor's "high" winding failed, probably in the factory.

Fear of having to deal with a mechanic, or the idea of paying for a new motor with an already failed winding keeps people from even trying to have it fixed.

That is what GM means to me.

//not a professional Haiku poet, yet.
 
2013-06-21 12:37:33 PM  
First two cars were GM. First 5 transmissions were GM. Never again.
 
2013-06-21 12:38:50 PM  

WGJ: I've had all sorts of brands, they're all the same.


Maybe you didn't have the right brands if you actually believe that.

//My Chrysler was the worst POS ever, and I have a letter from the CEO at the time that I owned it that all but admits it.
 
2013-06-21 12:42:13 PM  

Funk Brothers: Chrysler outsources its manufacturing to China hence why all those Jeeps are getting recalled now.

Why can't Chrysler return those jobs to the United States? Thanks Obama.


However, the positive is that American workers who do the repairs for Jeep dealerships are always in demand.
 
2013-06-21 12:49:45 PM  
Haters still will hate.
 
2013-06-21 01:08:18 PM  

Girion47: meanwhile my Subaru has been plugging along at 40K miles now without even one tiny problem with it.


Just to warn you but Subarus are notorious for having head gasket problems around 100,000 miles.
 
2013-06-21 01:19:44 PM  
Suck it, Subby. My 2011 200 has been sweet and I still have my 2000 Grand Caravan.
Ahh well, this is Fark, asking automotive opinions here is like asking your mother.
 
2013-06-21 01:26:44 PM  
I have no reason to believe that J.D. Power is inherently bad at what they do, but I do have a lot of my own personal experience that tells me that I often find myself at odds with their findings so I've developed substantial skepticism of their claims over the years.

That said, I also have no reason to believe GM's quality hasn't improved considerably, I just don't really care for their cars in a subjective manner. Don't like how they drive. Feel the same way about Toyota. I'm sure they're perfectly fine cars, I just don't personally care for them.

/ I'm on my first Honda. It has so far been no better or worse than most other cars I've owned from Ford, GM and Mazda.
// Not exactly buying into this "legendary reliability" vibe they have going on though
 
2013-06-21 01:44:11 PM  
 
2013-06-21 02:14:35 PM  
"GM, Ford, and Chrysler used to suck bad, but they're improving and are close to they quality of Toyota and Honda, if not better in some cases"

I've been hearing that sentence, in some form or another, for the past 20 years.
 
2013-06-21 02:22:16 PM  

impaler: I've been hearing that sentence, in some form or another, for the past 20 years.


That's because from 20 to 10 years ago it was true and ever since then most manufacturers have reached a sort of equilibrium where all their vehicles are so close in quality and reliability that the differentiation is nearly meaningless. I mean... we're at the point where talking about a manufacturer being half as reliable means you're taking your Ford to the garage 3 times in 100,000 miles for problems versus your Honda twice.

There's a few exceptions like Chrysler, Range Rover and Jag, but, for the most part, they're all so close there's no point in separating them anymore.
 
2013-06-21 02:23:01 PM  
My 2004 Civic blew a head gasket at around 70,000 miles.  My Chevy Truck had to be towed to the dealership at 37,000 miles.  My former Ford T-bird blew the transmission at 30,000 miles.

I think I have a tendency to get lemons.

My next car will likely be a Toyota.  Hopefully it will behave.
 
2013-06-21 02:30:59 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: My 2004 Civic blew a head gasket at around 70,000 miles.  My Chevy Truck had to be towed to the dealership at 37,000 miles.  My former Ford T-bird blew the transmission at 30,000 miles.

I think I have a tendency to get lemons.

My next car will likely be a Toyota.  Hopefully it will behave.


The common thread between all your car failures is you.
 
2013-06-21 02:40:33 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: My 2004 Civic blew a head gasket at around 70,000 miles.  My Chevy Truck had to be towed to the dealership at 37,000 miles.  My former Ford T-bird blew the transmission at 30,000 miles.

I think I have a tendency to get lemons.

My next car will likely be a Toyota.  Hopefully it will behave.


If you've been maintaining them, you probably should look into switching mechanics.

And if you've been doing the work yourself...  Well, see above.
 
2013-06-21 02:58:00 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: My 2004 Civic blew a head gasket at around 70,000 miles.  My Chevy Truck had to be towed to the dealership at 37,000 miles.  My former Ford T-bird blew the transmission at 30,000 miles.

I think I have a tendency to get lemons.

My next car will likely be a Toyota.  Hopefully it will behave.


What went through my mind:
TheGreatGazoo: "Ok. I'm finally in a Toyota. Those days of driving lemons are finally behind me!"
*unintentional acceleration out of parking lot*
 
2013-06-21 03:11:20 PM  

WGJ: I've had all sorts of brands, they're all the same.


yeah man they're all the same, neither one's worse
 
2013-06-21 03:12:21 PM  
JD Power?  Isn't that something you can buy?

/I see this has already been covered
//This post has won the JD Power award for best post
 
2013-06-21 03:50:28 PM  

skozlaw: That's because from 20 to 10 years ago it was true and ever since then most manufacturers have reached a sort of equilibrium where all their vehicles are so close in quality and reliability that the differentiation is nearly meaningless. I mean... we're at the point where talking about a manufacturer being half as reliable means you're taking your Ford to the garage 3 times in 100,000 miles for problems versus your Honda twice.


I agree with this.

Of all the new cars my wife and I have owned (2 Jeeps, 1 Honda, 1 Acura, 1 Nissan, 1 Infiniti), the Nissan was the worst, the Honda the best, and the Infiniti and Jeeps not too shabby at all. My parents have had Nissans (same model, successive model years) have one be great and one so so. Their CR-V has been iffy in some ways, great in others.

Quite honestly, I doubt anybody makes a shiat car nowadays. For all practical purposes a randomly chosen vehicle from any dealership (as you say, with the possible exception of the British marques) are pretty much equally likely to give a good lifespan with minimal trouble. We aren't talking about vehicles that need new transmissions at 40,000 miles anymore. We're talking about vehicles that will probably run 120,000 miles with nothing more than routine maintenance.

They don't build them like they used to and boy aren't we glad.
 
2013-06-21 04:22:03 PM  

Girion47: meanwhile my Subaru has been plugging along at 40K miles now without even one tiny problem with it.


My 11 year old Durango has 160,000 miles on it and it's starting to get some rust bubbles where trim bolts go through the body.  Apart from normal consumables I've had 2 issues with it.  The little clip that holds the hood support broke and a button on one of the rear seat pull straps came apart.  Both were fixed under warranty.

It also comes in handy when a Subaru needs to be pulled out of a ditch.
 
2013-06-21 04:24:36 PM  
I've had my Silverado for almost 14 years and 170,000 miles.   I've only needed routine maintenance, nothing major.

//knock on wood
 
2013-06-21 04:24:36 PM  

Pentaxian: Girion47: meanwhile my Subaru has been plugging along at 40K miles now without even one tiny problem with it.

Just to warn you but Subarus are notorious for having head gasket problems around 100,000 miles.


hopefully I'll have a forged engine by then.
 
2013-06-21 04:25:29 PM  

akula: Quite honestly, I doubt anybody makes a shiat car nowadays. For all practical purposes a randomly chosen vehicle from any dealership (as you say, with the possible exception of the British marques) are pretty much equally likely to give a good lifespan with minimal trouble. We aren't talking about vehicles that need new transmissions at 40,000 miles anymore. We're talking about vehicles that will probably run 120,000 miles with nothing more than routine maintenance.


That's what I took from the JD Powers report.  The top 4 brands had fewer than 100 problems per vehicle, the bottom 4 had more than 135 per vehicle.  The difference between the best (Porsche) and the pack isn't worth the brand premium.
 
2013-06-21 06:54:36 PM  
My 2002 Geo Metro has just over 2.6 billion miles on it, and I've never even had to put gas in it. It will go almost 200mph, gets a quarter of a million miles per gallon, walks my dog for me, and is a total chick-magnet. This thing runs so clean that the exhauct pipe actually sucks in air, purifies it, and then spits out perfectly breathable air. I don't know what y'all are complainin' about.
 
2013-06-21 06:58:46 PM  

halfpastnvr: I believe they are referring to initial quality? If so, good for them...however I would love to see how their vehicles fair after 100k miles - I imagine they would be much further down the list.


Agreed.  Historically, I've found that GM vehicles tend to self destruct once they get past 75K miles.  If they can now routinely push 150K without any major powertrain issues, I'll be impressed.

I actually wish they'd specifically break powertrain faults into a separate category.  Ford and Subaru have had a reputation for building cars with unreliable accessories for some time.  A few friends of mine refer to Subaru engines as "being built like tanks" but bemoan all of the squeaks, rattles and other interior problems that show up.  And the article specifically noted that Ford's MyTouch navi system severely dragged down their score.


akula: We're talking about vehicles that will probably run 120,000 miles with nothing more than routine maintenance.


While that may be true, one issue I've seen is that when things do break, they're really expensive these days.  Twenty years ago, you could get a replacement 700R4 transmission for under $2K.  Now it seems like the average transmission is around $6K.  And vehicles are harder for DIY folks to repair, which is why I am not surprised to see labor costs go up for repairs.
 
2013-06-21 06:59:26 PM  
My 2013 camaro is a dream in everything but 2 areas:

1) The HUD and dashboard are still that same freaking ugly green on black console terminal display.  God save me from that terrible presentation layer.  (Although the HUD as a feature is 100% amazing)
2) The "Adaptive" transmission learns something terrible and started skipping shifts and shiatting out at high RPM's.  I've had to have it reset twice.  This is a strictly programming issue.  Both times its been reset it's been running like brand new.  But after a few months it starts shiatting out again.  I have a feeling this will be with me for the life of this car.
 
2013-06-21 07:57:19 PM  

Dinjiin: While that may be true, one issue I've seen is that when things do break, they're really expensive these days. Twenty years ago, you could get a replacement 700R4 transmission for under $2K. Now it seems like the average transmission is around $6K. And vehicles are harder for DIY folks to repair, which is why I am not surprised to see labor costs go up for repairs.


That's true, but there are benefits. Those transmissions, for example, are much smoother, perform better and help improve fuel economy.

Cars are definitely getting more expensive, but there are also measurable improvements in performance, safety, etc.

/ part of the problem with the repair cost is also that with more electronics there are fewer user-serviceable parts
 
2013-06-21 08:01:43 PM  

Fooshards: 2) The "Adaptive" transmission learns something terrible and started skipping shifts and shiatting out at high RPM's.  I've had to have it reset twice.  This is a strictly programming issue.  Both times its been reset it's been running like brand new.  But after a few months it starts shiatting out again.  I have a feeling this will be with me for the life of this car.


If a periodic software reset was the worst of my car troubles I'd count my blessings... Especially if, as you say, resetting makes it run like new again. What does a reset involve? If it can be done with a consumer-level OBD2 sensor/code clearer you could do it yourself in a minute or two, and the OBD2 unit would only cost you a hundred or two hundred bucks ...
 
2013-06-21 11:31:41 PM  

Funk Brothers: Chrysler outsources its manufacturing to China hence why all those Jeeps are getting recalled now.

Why can't Chrysler return those jobs to the United States? Thanks Obama.


The jobs never left the United States. I submit as proof the Jeep Toledo Assembly Complex in Toledo, Ohio.
 
2013-06-21 11:53:30 PM  

Need a Dispenser Here: My 2010 Tacoma ..... He constantly teases me about my "not real pickup" and how I paid too much for it. My not real pickup can and does pull a pair of snowmobiles or a boat. It's still real to me, damnit!


I so want to sell my 2007 Highlander v6, as it was my pre-divorce vehicle. It has the stink of the divorce on it.
Problem is, it is perfect for me. 73kmi., not one single repair (as second owner) required. 3rd Row let me take the SO, her two kids, and my two kids (+ all luggage) from Maine to NY to catch cruise to Bahamas. Towing kit allows for hauling my boat or two place snowmobile trailer. AWD is great for snow country up here. Ground clearance is enough to get my to camping areas and back out.

Not sure what I could get to replace it that is as reliable and as flexible, without trading it in and adding another $10k on a loan. Highlander is paid off... guess I'll just have to keep it.
 
2013-06-22 02:19:01 AM  

Znuh: And you're still driving something from GM.


Which, if you avoid the Opel rebrands (Buick) and Asian/European captive imports (about every small car they have), you aren't getting something bad.   At least you're not guaranteed to get a glorified Trabant or Lada with satnav and a turbocharger - as with the case with Ford and the import manufacturers.

Let me know when the import manufacturers start making things to US-sized proportions and prices.

macdaddy357: Now that Chrysler is owned by Fix It Again Tony, the word "suck" will not be adequate to describe them.


The 1980's and 1990's wants their stereotype of Chrysler back.  Unlike Ford (or GM, unfortunately), they stick to making Detroit-proportioned cars.  If you want a golfcart, Fiat will be happy to sell you a 500.

If you want to see "suck", I believe Hyundai will be more than happy to oblige.   That can be seen by them having a fender from here, a drivetrain from there, wheels from somewhere else, and an interior that looks like it was designed without an American in mind.  They take those parts and make a knockoff that ends up being worse.
 
2013-06-22 02:33:58 AM  

halfpastnvr: I believe they are referring to initial quality? If so, good for them...however I would love to see how their vehicles fair after 100k miles - I imagine they would be much further down the list.


Chevy has mentioned for as long as I can remember that their Silverados have the highest resale value of fullsize trucks.
 
2013-06-22 04:34:00 AM  
meh, murrica car companies....

Owned a 2011 Challenger R/T, loved it...didn't love the fact that I had to change 16 spark plugs every 30k miles, crapie dash that sunk in to the passenger airbag, O2 sensor going out every 3k miles, windows that would roll down whenever it rained,  A/C that blew hot and my heat blew cold air (never figured that one out) spoiler came off the trunk....I do miss that POS, but had to let it go. (42k miles on it)...built in Canada

Own a 2013 Tacoma now, no problems. Built in Texas......Murrica
 
2013-06-22 06:01:56 AM  

Sin_City_Superhero: My 2002 Geo Metro has just over 2.6 billion miles on it, and I've never even had to put gas in it. It will go almost 200mph, gets a quarter of a million miles per gallon, walks my dog for me, and is a total chick-magnet. This thing runs so clean that the exhauct pipe actually sucks in air, purifies it, and then spits out perfectly breathable air. I don't know what y'all are complainin' about.


Anecdotes != evidence
 
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