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(Atlanta Journal Constitution)   Atlanta Falcons: Hey, check out the new stadium we're going to build. One hundred and fifty one year old church: Not so fast, Arthur Blank   (ajc.com ) divider line 49
    More: Fail, Arthur Blank, Atlanta, Morehouse College, Georgia Dome, stadiums, Georgia World Congress Center  
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2360 clicks; posted to Sports » on 21 Jun 2013 at 10:54 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-21 09:50:04 AM  
The price of the stadium is twice what the budget for the entire city is for a year.
 
2013-06-21 11:00:37 AM  
I don't know why the church would be upset.  They're build a place where 70,000 people can scream "Jesus!" at the top of their lungs when the Falcons lose in the playoffs again.
 
2013-06-21 11:21:39 AM  
You think they will pull the ole "Immanent domain" card? Because hey it's for teh "public good".
 
2013-06-21 11:27:14 AM  
FTA:

...if there is no deal to secure the church properties ... known as the "south site" ... construction will automatically shift almost a mile north of the Dome.

Get your free press, but then take the offer.
 
2013-06-21 11:29:23 AM  
One hundred and fifty one year old church: Not so fast, Arthur Blank

www.sonofthesouth.net

Need some help with that, Arthur?
 
2013-06-21 11:29:28 AM  

neritz: I don't know why the church would be upset.  They're build a place where 70,000 people can scream "Jesus!" at the top of their lungs when the Falcons lose in the playoffs again.


img.fark.net

Shea stadium already had that with the Moonies

They thanked God  once a year that the Mets didn't draft them
 
2013-06-21 11:41:43 AM  
Dumb not to take the money if it's above market value. If push comes to shove, and they decide they do not want to move it north, they'll declare eminent domain and take the property for pennies on the dollar.

Your congregation will have a tough time meeting when you no longer have the cash to purchase property and build a new church.

The fact that the church asked for $25 million tells me this isn't about the sanctity of the property or its historical provenance - it is just a cash grab by the church.
 
2013-06-21 11:50:21 AM  

LesserEvil: The fact that the church asked for $25 million tells me this isn't about the sanctity of the property or its historical provenance - it is just a cash grab by the church.


They are Southern Baptists, where it's all about how big your church can be, so $25 million can build you one damn big church
 
2013-06-21 11:50:31 AM  

LesserEvil: The fact that the church asked for $25 million tells me this isn't about the sanctity of the property or its historical provenance - it is just a cash grab by the church.


THIS

THe property is values at under 2M. Now we all know that those numbers are usually light (well where I live they are) so lets go with double. THe property and the church is worth 4M.

Max offer should be 8M and the Church be happy with it. 25.5M asking price, I HOPE they get  Immanent domain'd.

/no horse in the race
//just hate idiots
 
2013-06-21 11:52:23 AM  
I thought the Falcon's new stadium was going on the north end of the convention center: did I misunderstand or when did that change?
 
2013-06-21 11:53:49 AM  
I'm just amazed the Falcons are putting up 80% of the costs.

/If "church" property were taxed, I'd send them a retroactive tax bill if they think the property is worth $25M
 
2013-06-21 11:57:26 AM  
The church should be happy that the  stadium will be filled on Sundays and at various times people will be screaming out "Jesus Christ!" and Oh My God!"
 
2013-06-21 12:09:02 PM  
It's a $1 billion project and $24 mil for the land is too much?

If at the start of the project your budget is THAT tight there is no chance you're making $1 billion work.
 
2013-06-21 12:21:10 PM  
My wife's church bought the 5 acres it sits on in Raleigh, North Carolina for $ 10,000 sixty years ago.  Today, that land would be worth $ 10 million, easy.

If the church can get that for it, let them - but tax the ever loving shiat out of them once they do.
 
2013-06-21 12:26:16 PM  
Seriously?  I'd pay no more than $500k for that whole block in Vine City.
 
2013-06-21 01:15:16 PM  
For the record, if that plan goes through, that is a perfectly gaudy and God-ugly tribute to how much that city and its pretend fans suck.
 
2013-06-21 01:24:46 PM  
Black Baptist churches will try milk the shiat out of this
/Black
 
2013-06-21 01:29:01 PM  
Can somebody explain to me why the Georgia Dome is suddenly inadequate?
 
2013-06-21 01:32:05 PM  

Wadded Beef: Can somebody explain to me why the Georgia Dome is suddenly inadequate?


It's not ostentatious enough to appeal to Atlanta's significant gay community.
 
2013-06-21 02:04:21 PM  

FriarReb98: For the record, if that plan goes through, that is a perfectly gaudy and God-ugly tribute to how much that city and its pretend fans suck.


In the concept photos I saw the stadium looked like an asshole. The roof looks like a sphincter, and with the shiatty fans inside, I think its perfect.

/Was at the GA dome 2 years ago. It was fine, they don't need a new stadium
 
2013-06-21 02:10:52 PM  

Lifeless: Wadded Beef: Can somebody explain to me why the Georgia Dome is suddenly inadequate?

It's not ostentatious enough to appeal to Atlanta's significant gay community.


Because the NFL basically said "no new stadium?  No more super bowls in Atlanta."

/starting the clock on when Jerry's World won't be good enough for the Cowboys.
 
2013-06-21 02:12:38 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: It's a $1 billion project and $24 mil for the land is too much?

If at the start of the project your budget is THAT tight there is no chance you're making $1 billion work.


Here's a simple concept for you: let one guy rip you off early in a project that size, and the next 150+ churches/builders/contractors/realtors/surveyors/lawyers/plumbers/etc will all try the same shiat. Gotta keep fools in check from the beginning.
 
2013-06-21 02:14:01 PM  

the biggest redneck here: DoBeDoBeDo: It's a $1 billion project and $24 mil for the land is too much?

If at the start of the project your budget is THAT tight there is no chance you're making $1 billion work.

Here's a simple concept for you: let one guy rip you off early in a project that size, and the next 150+ churches/builders/contractors/realtors/surveyors/lawyers/plumbers/etc will all try the same shiat. Gotta keep fools in check from the beginning.


THIS. That's why they don't even normally discuss numbers.

In this case, it's to shame the church for the obvious cash grab.
 
2013-06-21 02:37:34 PM  

AlHarris31: FriarReb98: For the record, if that plan goes through, that is a perfectly gaudy and God-ugly tribute to how much that city and its pretend fans suck.

In the concept photos I saw the stadium looked like an asshole. The roof looks like a sphincter, and with the shiatty fans inside, I think its perfect.

/Was at the GA dome 2 years ago. It was fine, they don't need a new stadium


They probably want to make a football stadium version of Philips, with the wall of luxury boxes to make money off of the rich and stupid of Atlanta.  Which there are plenty of.
 
2013-06-21 02:41:16 PM  

the biggest redneck here: DoBeDoBeDo: It's a $1 billion project and $24 mil for the land is too much?

If at the start of the project your budget is THAT tight there is no chance you're making $1 billion work.

Here's a simple concept for you: let one guy rip you off early in a project that size, and the next 150+ churches/builders/contractors/realtors/surveyors/lawyers/plumbers/etc will all try the same shiat. Gotta keep fools in check from the beginning.


This is the single most important purchase of the project.  This isn't talking about the guy selling you the shiatters.   Any project this size is going to be hamstrung by the purchase of the property on which to build.

You can easily find someone else to give you a better price on the shiatters.   Good luck finding land to build on in the middle of a city.
 
2013-06-21 02:48:15 PM  
Silly question time: why not just replace the roof at the Georgia Dome with a retractable roof?  Would that cost more than $1 billion (the current project cost)?
 
2013-06-21 02:59:25 PM  

Galileo's Daughter: Silly question time: why not just replace the roof at the Georgia Dome with a retractable roof?  Would that cost more than $1 billion (the current project cost)?


Last estimate I heard about replacing the roof with a new one (not retractable, just a new cloth roof like the current one) was in the $550-$1bn range. It kind of makes more sense I suppose to make a new stadium, sort of.
 
2013-06-21 03:26:20 PM  
Since they don't pay taxes on it, I don't know why they should get a say in how the land is used.
 
2013-06-21 03:29:29 PM  

Cheeseface: Galileo's Daughter: Silly question time: why not just replace the roof at the Georgia Dome with a retractable roof?  Would that cost more than $1 billion (the current project cost)?

Last estimate I heard about replacing the roof with a new one (not retractable, just a new cloth roof like the current one) was in the $550-$1bn range. It kind of makes more sense I suppose to make a new stadium, sort of.


I would call BS on that...

img2u.info

The Silverdome owners are replacing this roof... it isn't costing $500 million. I doubt they plan on spending more than a million, if that.
 
2013-06-21 03:34:00 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: the biggest redneck here: DoBeDoBeDo: It's a $1 billion project and $24 mil for the land is too much?

If at the start of the project your budget is THAT tight there is no chance you're making $1 billion work.

Here's a simple concept for you: let one guy rip you off early in a project that size, and the next 150+ churches/builders/contractors/realtors/surveyors/lawyers/plumbers/etc will all try the same shiat. Gotta keep fools in check from the beginning.

This is the single most important purchase of the project.  This isn't talking about the guy selling you the shiatters.   Any project this size is going to be hamstrung by the purchase of the property on which to build.

You can easily find someone else to give you a better price on the shiatters.   Good luck finding land to build on in the middle of a city.


All purchases are "most important" because they won't purchase ANY of them until they can purchase ALL of them. One idiot holding out screws up the whole thing, and one person raising their asking price means everybody else can decide to raise their prices.
 
2013-06-21 03:34:02 PM  

Cheeseface: Galileo's Daughter: Silly question time: why not just replace the roof at the Georgia Dome with a retractable roof?  Would that cost more than $1 billion (the current project cost)?

Last estimate I heard about replacing the roof with a new one (not retractable, just a new cloth roof like the current one) was in the $550-$1bn range. It kind of makes more sense I suppose to make a new stadium, sort of.


Plus, the city would be on the hook for at least half of the roof replacement cost, which is more than the $200 million they are spending on the new stadium.
 
2013-06-21 03:43:43 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Black Baptist churches will try milk the shiat out of this
/Black


Typical Democrats for you.
Land worth a million, offered 12 times that, but it is not enough.
 
2013-06-21 03:44:08 PM  

LesserEvil: Cheeseface: Galileo's Daughter: Silly question time: why not just replace the roof at the Georgia Dome with a retractable roof?  Would that cost more than $1 billion (the current project cost)?

Last estimate I heard about replacing the roof with a new one (not retractable, just a new cloth roof like the current one) was in the $550-$1bn range. It kind of makes more sense I suppose to make a new stadium, sort of.

I would call BS on that...

[img2u.info image 640x480]

The Silverdome owners are replacing this roof... it isn't costing $500 million. I doubt they plan on spending more than a million, if that.


Completely different roof design, the GA dome roof is a complicated mess, removal will cost more the Silver Dome roof.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-21 03:59:00 PM  

dinomyar: drjekel_mrhyde: Black Baptist churches will try milk the shiat out of this
/Black

Typical Democrats for you.
Land worth a million, offered 12 times that, but it is not enough.


Because appraisals so accurately reflect the value of land, especially when the city can't even tax them based on it.

The church has every right to value the land as they want. It isn't like they are blocking something important, it might force a sports stadium to move a whole mile away, boo hoo. If the city wants it they will pay the extra 10 mil, if not, they won't.
 
2013-06-21 04:05:44 PM  
It will be interesting if one church agrees and the other one doesn't, especially if both offers are above market value.  I think the one that would be willing to sell would be rather upset at the one the one holding out.

They might even have a 'Come to Jesus' meeting.
 
2013-06-21 04:23:38 PM  
Can't Arthur still get the employee discount at Home Depot and save a ton on building materials?
 
2013-06-21 04:43:14 PM  
The Falcons were fine with the plan 3 years ago for the north site. It's the city that pushed for The Gulch, to tie in with their long-delayed (unfunded) desire to make The Gulch into a multi-modal transit hub. The hub won't happen without some major economic powerhouse on the site--either a mixed-use development, or, here's an idea: a stadium.

The Falcons are between a rock and a hard place. They had to go along with the south site proposal to ease the city approval process, but in doing so they stepped into the civil rights/religous/race buzz saw. You can't do business in Atanta without stepping into that one. Coca Cola found that out: they donated a $10M piece of property for the new Center for Civil and Human Rights, only to be called racist for donating "useless leftover" land that sits lower than the Aquarium and the Coca Cola museum.

The Falcons win with either the north or south site, because they get their stadium. But they will lose PR-wise either way. If they get the south site, they destroyed historic black churches. If they go with the north site, they wreck the city's plans for a traffic hub, and there will be no end of news stories about this billion-dollar jewel sitting right next to a blighted neighborhood (that's been the story for 20 years about the Georgia Dome, so no reason it won't continue).
 
2013-06-21 04:45:56 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: the biggest redneck here: DoBeDoBeDo: It's a $1 billion project and $24 mil for the land is too much?

If at the start of the project your budget is THAT tight there is no chance you're making $1 billion work.

Here's a simple concept for you: let one guy rip you off early in a project that size, and the next 150+ churches/builders/contractors/realtors/surveyors/lawyers/plumbers/etc will all try the same shiat. Gotta keep fools in check from the beginning.

This is the single most important purchase of the project.  This isn't talking about the guy selling you the shiatters.   Any project this size is going to be hamstrung by the purchase of the property on which to build.

You can easily find someone else to give you a better price on the shiatters.   Good luck finding land to build on in the middle of a city.


Don't ever get into real estate. Just... don't.

/this is a "destination" project, location ain't all *that* important
 
2013-06-21 05:12:01 PM  
People who are screaming for eminent domain are delusional but it'd make for great tv around the world. The police show up in force to handcuff and drag off to jail black church goers linked arm in arm singing hymns about overcoming oppression, all for the benefit of a white billionaire... in the South. Any idea what that image being broadcast around the world would have on the image of the "city too busy to hate" and "capital of the NEW South"? Forcibly removing a historic black church with tons of ties to the civil rights movement for a football stadium? If the city won't meet the asking price, they're SOL. They can't use eminent domain. It's a political nightmare if they do. Plus it's an election year in a religious state. You don't get elected buy bulldozing churches.

Tom_Slick: Plus, the city would be on the hook for at least half of the roof replacement cost, which is more than the $200 million they are spending on the new stadium.


$200 million is simply the city's first payment during construction. The real amount going to Arthur Blank is many times greater. The City of Atlanta estimates they're going give him
$494 million while the State of Georgia estimates it to be $882 million. Plus land, various tax credits on construction, no property taxes required, etc bumps the "investment" of the public closer to a cool billion.

http://commoncausega.org/2013/06/03/the-real-public-contribution-to- bi llion-dollar-stadium/

dinomyar: Typical Democrats for you.
Land worth a million, offered 12 times that, but it is not enough.


That's the free market for you. If the potential buyer wants something bad enough and the seller has no interest in selling, the price will go up... way up. The church has been happy on that spot for over a century. They weren't looking to sell, it's Arthur Blank who decided he wanted a new stadium.

I wonder what's the assessed value of people's family photo albums versus how much money it would take them to give them up. I'm betting the gap is much greater than twelve times.

The powers that be were stupid to pick land they didn't own. They assumed they could toss a few dollars at the churches and they'd easily get their way. Waiting until the process was so far along was stupid. Now they're stuck either going with the backup site or paying as much as the churches want.
 
2013-06-21 05:28:37 PM  

EngineerAU: That's the free market for you. If the potential buyer wants something bad enough and the seller has no interest in selling, the price will go up... way up. The church has been happy on that spot for over a century. They weren't looking to sell, it's Arthur Blank who decided he wanted a new stadium.

I wonder what's the assessed value of people's family photo albums versus how much money it would take them to give them up. I'm betting the gap is much greater than twelve times.

The powers that be were stupid to pick land they didn't own. They assumed they could toss a few dollars at the churches and they'd easily get their way. Waiting until the process was so far along was stupid. Now they're stuck either going with the backup site or paying as much as the churches want.


That church also rents their parking lot during Dome events, I would bet they get half their revenue from charging $20 a spot on game days, so they need extra to make up for lost income.
 
2013-06-21 05:48:39 PM  

FriarReb98: AlHarris31: FriarReb98: For the record, if that plan goes through, that is a perfectly gaudy and God-ugly tribute to how much that city and its pretend fans suck.

In the concept photos I saw the stadium looked like an asshole. The roof looks like a sphincter, and with the shiatty fans inside, I think its perfect.

/Was at the GA dome 2 years ago. It was fine, they don't need a new stadium

They probably want to make a football stadium version of Philips, with the wall of luxury boxes to make money off of the rich and stupid of Atlanta.  Which there are plenty of.


I thought putting all the luxury boxes on one side of the venue was actually supposed to be a more efficient design? As I understand it the 49ers new place is that way.
 
2013-06-21 06:26:01 PM  
Why not move the church? It could probably be moved for the 10 million that they're apart on the negotiations.
 
2013-06-21 06:44:09 PM  

McDougal: Can't Arthur still get the employee discount at Home Depot and save a ton on building materials?


As an ex-Home Depot employee... there is no discount.
 
2013-06-21 07:40:53 PM  
It sounds very short-sighted and ill-advised for Atlanta to demolish a church with 150 years of history to build a stadium that will be obsolete in 20-30 years (if the current trend continues).  And I don't blame the church for asking for an exorbitant amount of money.  Sure, the property itself probably isn't worth that much, but the cultural significance of a place where people have been worshiping since the end of slavery and a place with ties to the civil rights era is worth much more (if that is indeed the case - if this is a church that has relocated a bunch of times, then I don't have as much sympathy).  If the price is too high for the city, build the stadium somewhere else.
 
2013-06-21 07:42:59 PM  

KingKauff: LesserEvil: The fact that the church asked for $25 million tells me this isn't about the sanctity of the property or its historical provenance - it is just a cash grab by the church.

====================


Yes I thought it was going to be all about the history, slavery, etc.  But it is all about the money.

/Whenever someone says it isn't about the money, it is always about the money
 
2013-06-21 07:44:46 PM  

Zoomaster: KingKauff: LesserEvil: The fact that the church asked for $25 million tells me this isn't about the sanctity of the property or its historical provenance - it is just a cash grab by the church.

====================

Yes I thought it was going to be all about the history, slavery, etc.  But it is all about the money.

/Whenever someone says it isn't about the money, it is always about the money


==========

And they can move it anywhere the congregation want's for a fraction of the cost

/call Megs - Movers
 
2013-06-21 08:51:22 PM  

neritz: I don't know why the church would be upset.  They're build a place where 70,000 people can scream "Jesus!" at the top of their lungs when the Falcons lose in the playoffs again.


But enough about the actual church...what about the stadium?
 
2013-06-21 09:55:30 PM  
Market value is if you sold the property and church as is to a typical buyer.

I think it's right for them to expect a lot more if the buyer is using it in a billion dollar project.  To that buyer it's worth far, far more than market value.  This is why the counteroffer was fifteen million, that's an acknowledgement that the quoted 2 million is so ridiculous even the buy admits it.
 
2013-06-22 04:08:33 PM  

dietbubba: /starting the clock on when Jerry's World won't be good enough for the Cowboys.


The day after it opened. The Edifice Complex is never sated.
 
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