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(HitFix)   'Independence Day 2: Electric Boogaloo' coming to theaters one day early   (hitfix.com) divider line 140
    More: Cool, Independence Days, theaters, Bill Pullman, Roland Emmerich, Jeff Goldblum, No Kidding  
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5216 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 21 Jun 2013 at 6:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-21 11:23:59 AM

dittybopper: theorellior: give me doughnuts: I wonder how they are going to play the environmental factor. All that material getting burnt up in Earf's upper atmosphere had to have some kind of effect on insolation levels, all of the large impacts (the mother-ship had the mass of 1/6 of the moon), and the effects of having that many major metropolitan areas burning has got to have played havok with the environment.

Not to mention the addition of so much mass to the Earth will noticeably change the pull of gravity. Probably a 3-4% change, which sounds small but will affect all sorts of things, from the Moon to satellites to weather to core convection to ocean currents and tides to species interactions.

Not all of the mass of the mothership would be added to the Earth.  In fact, only a fraction of it would be.  The overwhelming majority of the material would be blasted away from the earth at greater than escape velocity.

If we assume the mothership had a mass 1/6th that of the moon, that would mean it weighed the equivalent of ( 1.23% / 6 ) = 0.205% the mass of the earth.

The gravity on the moon is only 16.5% that of earth, so 1/6th of that would equal  2.75% of earth gravity.  For most people, it would be barely noticeable.

That's assuming 100% of the mass of the mothership ends up on Earth, which isn't actually what would happen.  Probably, at the very most, 1/3rd of the mass of the mothership would end up on Earth.  So actually that 1/6th would be 1/18th, so the additional gravity would actually be 16.5%/18 = 0.9%, something you could measure, but I doubt that anyone would be able to physically notice.

Calculating it differently, the moon weighs 7.3477 × 1022 kg , so 1/18th of that would be 4.0804 x 1021 kg added to the mass of the Earth (5.9736×1024 kg), so the total weight of the Earth afterwards would be 5.9777 x 1024 kg, an increase in Earth mass of .07%.

Plugging those numbers into a gravitational acceleration calculator, I get 9.7982514675783 m/s2for Earth without the extra mass, and 9.8049765296877 m/s2for Earth with the extra mass, an increase of just 0.1%.

Something you could measure, but not something you'd notice in everyday life.


Eh yeah, but you can use math to prove anything.

/was told there would be no math
 
2013-06-21 11:26:34 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: dittybopper: Something you could measure, but not something you'd notice in everyday life.

Been awhile since I've seen it, but even 1/3 is over estimating it since it appears most of the ship is vaporized in the explosion


Well, that mass doesn't just disappear.  It's reduced to atoms, and some very, very small percentage is converted to energy in the initial explosion, but the vast majority of the mass of the mothership would still remain.
 
2013-06-21 11:28:02 AM

dittybopper: Well, that mass doesn't just disappear. It's reduced to atoms, and some very, very small percentage is converted to energy in the initial explosion, but the vast majority of the mass of the mothership would still remain.


Obviously, but I don't think nearly that much would fall to earth as space dust or join in the atmosphere since in an explosion the direct energy is in all directions with the earth only encapsulating a small portion of that space.
 
2013-06-21 11:31:13 AM

dittybopper: mat catastrophe: Too bad we're not getting that. Enjoy your two hours of humanity tracking the aliens home and committing genocide against them.

You know, I wouldn't have any sympathy for them.  Classic self-defense, writ large.  They came here first with the intent to wipe us out.


So, if someone robs your house and you follow them home and execute them, that's self-defense?

You must live in Texas.
 
2013-06-21 11:37:34 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: dittybopper: Well, that mass doesn't just disappear. It's reduced to atoms, and some very, very small percentage is converted to energy in the initial explosion, but the vast majority of the mass of the mothership would still remain.

Obviously, but I don't think nearly that much would fall to earth as space dust or join in the atmosphere since in an explosion the direct energy is in all directions with the earth only encapsulating a small portion of that space.


That's why I figured that at most, just 1/3rd of the mass of the mothership would collect on Earth.

I will admit, I was too lazy to figure out the area of a circle on the surface of a sphere, so I 'winged' it, but I'm confident that 1/3rd is a good, conservative 'upper bound' for that number.  The mothership wasn't in low earth orbit, it was considerably farther away, so the angle subtended by the Earth would be relatively small, but then you have to contend with gravitational effects on the particles, and for the 'near misses', with atmospheric drag.
 
2013-06-21 11:45:30 AM
24.media.tumblr.com

/Someone had to
 
2013-06-21 11:46:03 AM

dittybopper: theorellior: give me doughnuts: I wonder how they are going to play the environmental factor. All that material getting burnt up in Earf's upper atmosphere had to have some kind of effect on insolation levels, all of the large impacts (the mother-ship had the mass of 1/6 of the moon), and the effects of having that many major metropolitan areas burning has got to have played havok with the environment.

Not to mention the addition of so much mass to the Earth will noticeably change the pull of gravity. Probably a 3-4% change, which sounds small but will affect all sorts of things, from the Moon to satellites to weather to core convection to ocean currents and tides to species interactions.

Not all of the mass of the mothership would be added to the Earth.  In fact, only a fraction of it would be.  The overwhelming majority of the material would be blasted away from the earth at greater than escape velocity.

If we assume the mothership had a mass 1/6th that of the moon, that would mean it weighed the equivalent of ( 1.23% / 6 ) = 0.205% the mass of the earth.

The gravity on the moon is only 16.5% that of earth, so 1/6th of that would equal  2.75% of earth gravity.  For most people, it would be barely noticeable.

That's assuming 100% of the mass of the mothership ends up on Earth, which isn't actually what would happen.  Probably, at the very most, 1/3rd of the mass of the mothership would end up on Earth.  So actually that 1/6th would be 1/18th, so the additional gravity would actually be 16.5%/18 = 0.9%, something you could measure, but I doubt that anyone would be able to physically notice.

Calculating it differently, the moon weighs 7.3477 × 1022 kg , so 1/18th of that would be 4.0804 x 1021 kg added to the mass of the Earth (5.9736×1024 kg), so the total weight of the Earth afterwards would be 5.9777 x 1024 kg, an increase in Earth mass of .07%.

Plugging those numbers into a gravitational acceleration calculator, I get 9.7982514675783 m/s2for Earth without ...


Nice analysis there, dittybopper, well done.

My beef with a sequel would be that there wouldn't be much of a planet left after the first movie. Putting aside the effects of having dozens of city sized spacecraft (made of alloys strong enough to survive space phenomena and hold the ship together in a gravity well, shields be damned) come crashing down, and ignoring the meltdowns of whatever powered them, blowing up the mothership dooms us all.

The Earth, as a large mass in space, would be ok. Its inhabited surface and atmosphere would not. It's the Death Star problem 2.0; that much mass doesn't disappear in an explosion; it's going to come raining down on various tangents at hyperballistic speeds (if not relativistic), and destroy everything. Not all of it, but enough; that which didn't reach escape velocity will rain down at a later date. At minimum you have the mother of all EMPs, and space travel is useless for the duration of human civilization. Major infrastructure worldwide is destroyed, and a post-zombie apocalypse event occurs in all but the most agrarian or isolated of nations. Most probably, fires, dust clouds, atmospheric stripping, vaporization of water in the oceans, not to mention pollution of the entire ecosystem (that survived) with now-radioactive elements is widespread. And if most of the ship was 'vaporized'  in the blast, that's much, much worse: the energy required to do that to such a significant amount of mass means the planet is, near-literally, toast.

tl;dr

The ship was 1/4 the size of the moon; if a single nuke did enough damage to blow all that apart, the energies involved are so tremendous, their wouldn't be much of a movie save perhaps 'The Road: The Sequel', or 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, the Reboot'.

I'd still watch it anyway (Star Trek and Superman are no more correct than ID4 and I enjoyed them both), but it's fun to nitpick this stuff.
 
2013-06-21 11:50:32 AM

mat catastrophe: dittybopper: mat catastrophe: Too bad we're not getting that. Enjoy your two hours of humanity tracking the aliens home and committing genocide against them.

You know, I wouldn't have any sympathy for them.  Classic self-defense, writ large.  They came here first with the intent to wipe us out.

So, if someone robs your house and you follow them home and execute them, that's self-defense?

You must live in Texas.


What if, in the process of robbing your house, they also want to kill you:

President Thomas Whitmore: What do you want us to do?
Captured Alien: Die. Die.
...

President Thomas Whitmore: I saw... its thoughts. I saw what they're planning to do. They're like locusts. They're moving from planet to planet... their whole civilization. After they've consumed every natural resource they move on... and we're next. Nuke 'em. Let's nuke the bastards.



Logically, if there were others of them out there, in order for us to survive we would have to make sure they don't, otherwise it would just be a matter of time before it would happen again, and we'd have no guarantee would could pull off a miracle like we did in the first film.


Plus, you want to avoid fighting on your home turf if you can avoid it, because even if you win, you can suffer a large amount of damage to your home world.
 
2013-06-21 12:06:07 PM

dittybopper: mat catastrophe: dittybopper: mat catastrophe: Too bad we're not getting that. Enjoy your two hours of humanity tracking the aliens home and committing genocide against them.

You know, I wouldn't have any sympathy for them.  Classic self-defense, writ large.  They came here first with the intent to wipe us out.

So, if someone robs your house and you follow them home and execute them, that's self-defense?

You must live in Texas.

What if, in the process of robbing your house, they also want to kill you:

President Thomas Whitmore: What do you want us to do?
Captured Alien: Die. Die.
...

President Thomas Whitmore: I saw... its thoughts. I saw what they're planning to do. They're like locusts. They're moving from planet to planet... their whole civilization. After they've consumed every natural resource they move on... and we're next. Nuke 'em. Let's nuke the bastards.


Logically, if there were others of them out there, in order for us to survive we would have to make sure they don't, otherwise it would just be a matter of time before it would happen again, and we'd have no guarantee would could pull off a miracle like we did in the first film.


Plus, you want to avoid fighting on your home turf if you can avoid it, because even if you win, you can suffer a large amount of damage to your home world.


Yep. Texas.
 
2013-06-21 12:35:03 PM

rudemix: Digitalstrange: rewind2846:  advanced computers (with no anti-virus running - WTF?),


What part of "telepathic species" didn't people get? Information security would be an alien concept to them. It's one of the stupidest knocks on ID4. Goldblum didn't have to learn to "program in an alien language" the aliens bridged the communications to take our satellites over and since they were telepathic they had no informational security, thus the simplest replicating virus ever made would be devastating (kinda like the Martians being destroyed by simple earth virus that humans are immune to) to them.

 mat catastrophe: Too bad we're not getting that. Enjoy your two hours of humanity tracking the aliens home and committing genocide against them.

They were home, they destroyed their world and moved on with their whole society in that mother ship.

considering that the earths ecosystem was once radically altered by one big asteroid hitting Earth, I'd say 15 "Asteroids" filled with unknown energy sources crashing on it would've rendered Earth uninhabitable within days of the end of ID4 so any sequel is rendered stupid and implausible from the very start.

I am one of the few who will admit that ID4 was a pretty good cheesy popcorn action flick that holds together pretty well (as I say if you ignore the fact that the "saviors" really just ensured we die free, not really saved the Earth) but I will be saying no to any sequel.


I think there's a difference in an asteroid moving at the speeds it does through space smashing into the earth at speed and ships already in gravity falling a few hunder/ thousand feet onto the earth in terms of destructive power.


each ship was large enough to disturb our planet just entering atmosphere, now I can buy they had some alien tech that counteracted that force right up until they stopped working, now that's released times 15 with unknown power sources piling on the environmental damage(and given their polluting history and their answer to that history clean energy isn't likely) now released from control, oh and the mothership big enough to hold all 15 ships was near the moon when it blew, that's going to throw off it's orbit which would alter our climate as well. Face it humanity died free but it died within days after ID4 rolled credits
 
2013-06-21 12:42:58 PM

mat catastrophe: dittybopper: mat catastrophe: Too bad we're not getting that. Enjoy your two hours of humanity tracking the aliens home and committing genocide against them.

You know, I wouldn't have any sympathy for them.  Classic self-defense, writ large.  They came here first with the intent to wipe us out.

So, if someone robs your house and you follow them home and execute them, that's self-defense?

You must live in Texas.


stealing stuff /= trying to kill you and your family. Yes if someone breaks into your house and kills half your family and wounds you going after them and killing them would be pretty strong mitigating factors
 
2013-06-21 01:01:51 PM

Digitalstrange: mat catastrophe: dittybopper: mat catastrophe: Too bad we're not getting that. Enjoy your two hours of humanity tracking the aliens home and committing genocide against them.

You know, I wouldn't have any sympathy for them.  Classic self-defense, writ large.  They came here first with the intent to wipe us out.

So, if someone robs your house and you follow them home and execute them, that's self-defense?

You must live in Texas.

stealing stuff /= trying to kill you and your family. Yes if someone breaks into your house and kills half your family and wounds you going after them and killing them would be pretty strong mitigating factors


Not only that, but let's also suppose that they want to steal the very air you breath, water you drink, and food you eat, so even if they don't want to kill you outright, the end effect of them accomplishing their goals is that you die.
 
2013-06-21 01:02:53 PM

mat catastrophe: Yep. Texas.


Upstate New York, actually.
 
2013-06-21 01:15:32 PM
Needs more willow
 
2013-06-21 01:42:50 PM

Digitalstrange: mat catastrophe: dittybopper: mat catastrophe: Too bad we're not getting that. Enjoy your two hours of humanity tracking the aliens home and committing genocide against them.

You know, I wouldn't have any sympathy for them.  Classic self-defense, writ large.  They came here first with the intent to wipe us out.

So, if someone robs your house and you follow them home and execute them, that's self-defense?

You must live in Texas.

stealing stuff /= trying to kill you and your family. Yes if someone breaks into your house and kills half your family and wounds you going after them and killing them would be pretty strong mitigating factors


But it would not be self defense. If you "go after them", that's a revenge killing. And you should be prosecuted for that.
 
2013-06-21 01:45:02 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: Mugato: Someone told me an exchange like that is in the deleted scenes. If that's true, that's something they should have left in.

Close, its a seven minute sequence of Gold working inside the ship with Spiner on the computer and recognizing the code as the same for when he picked up the signal, then making a remark about how similar it is to coding he's done on his computer THEN Spiner remarks 'where do you think computers come from'

It's on the extended release DVD


For some reason I wanted to say this was something I recall from the standard cut of the movie but maybe I'm mashing ID4 with Bay's Transformers in my mind.
 
2013-06-21 02:01:22 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: Mugato: Something snapped in Bay somewhere in the 2 years between The Rock and Armageddon.

He figured out the formula that in general the American viewing public are idiots when it comes to cinema

[img.fark.net image 800x937]


I've always figured that studio suits didn't quite trust Bay in his early career so... they actually did their jobs and ensured the end product would be of better quality (i.e. they forced Bay to make a better film). Once he made them a metric asston of money they started to trust him more and were willing to let him go Full Michael Bay, which is something no one should ever do even if they do make metric asstons of money.
 
2013-06-21 02:09:26 PM

HotWingConspiracy: dittybopper: Alphax: wildcardjack: JerseyTim: Independence Day 2 is just going to be 125 minutes of dogs jumping away from explosions at the last second in slow motion.

Sounds good.

They could go interesting. Go plus 30 years and humanity has reverse engineered the tech and launched a few ships and we go after them. Or it turns out that the lizard overlords really cracked down on the population and they need to overthrow the alien overlords. I mean, at the end of the movie they barely had a means of taking out the invasion ships, loads of aliens would have survived. Heck, did they kill ALL the ships?

An earlier article suggested that the invaders got off a distress signal, and their reinforcements left home as soon as they got it.. but due to time dialation in hyperspace, a few months travel for them was a few decades of time on Earth.

They don't even have actually explicitly send a distress signal.

If you are in reasonably close contact with the home world or main fleet or whatever, and all of a sudden you stop sending progress updates, the other alienses are going to know something really bad happened, and they'll probably want to investigate.

That's one thing that bothered me about District 9. Why no rescue?


Because they were slaves, no one cares about slaves.
 
2013-06-21 02:13:08 PM

mat catastrophe: Digitalstrange: mat catastrophe: dittybopper: mat catastrophe: Too bad we're not getting that. Enjoy your two hours of humanity tracking the aliens home and committing genocide against them.

You know, I wouldn't have any sympathy for them.  Classic self-defense, writ large.  They came here first with the intent to wipe us out.

So, if someone robs your house and you follow them home and execute them, that's self-defense?

You must live in Texas.

stealing stuff /= trying to kill you and your family. Yes if someone breaks into your house and kills half your family and wounds you going after them and killing them would be pretty strong mitigating factors

But it would not be self defense. If you "go after them", that's a revenge killing. And you should be prosecuted for that.


Think of this not in terms of human vs. human, but, say, human village vs. pride of lions that have developed a taste for human flesh.  And those lions have migrated from their native Africa, and the village is in southern China.

Now, let's say a couple members of the pride attacked the village, killed half the villagers and much of the livestock the villagers need to survive, and caused a lot of destruction to village structures.  Would not the villagers in this case be justified in hunting down and killing any other lions in the area, and perhaps even going so far as to mount an expedition to wipe out any of the very dangerous and invasive, non-native lions in the whole of southern China?

Indeed, think of it in terms of human history:  Assume that the Nazis in WWII wouldn't stop killing Jews until
 
2013-06-21 02:18:35 PM

mat catastrophe: Digitalstrange: mat catastrophe: dittybopper: mat catastrophe: Too bad we're not getting that. Enjoy your two hours of humanity tracking the aliens home and committing genocide against them.

You know, I wouldn't have any sympathy for them.  Classic self-defense, writ large.  They came here first with the intent to wipe us out.

So, if someone robs your house and you follow them home and execute them, that's self-defense?

You must live in Texas.

stealing stuff /= trying to kill you and your family. Yes if someone breaks into your house and kills half your family and wounds you going after them and killing them would be pretty strong mitigating factors

But it would not be self defense. If you "go after them", that's a revenge killing. And you should be prosecuted for that.


History demonstrates that they have zero value for human life and are very aggressive in accumulating resources. Letting them continue to exist is a very risky thing if you intend to continue existing yourself. These aren't ET's people or Ewoks FFS, and frankly they're a bit less cuddly than even the Borg.
 
2013-06-21 02:20:51 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: I've always figured that studio suits didn't quite trust Bay in his early career so... they actually did their jobs and ensured the end product would be of better quality


Studio suits doing their jobs? No, I don't buy it.

I don't buy that the movie going audience is "stupid" either. Going to the movies is usually a date/family thing so people will watch what is presented to them. But assuming that movies that blow shiat up and movies with intelligent scripts are mutually exclusive is bullshiat. That's an excuse shiatty writers give for their shiatty writing.
 
2013-06-21 02:22:04 PM

mat catastrophe: Digitalstrange: mat catastrophe: dittybopper: mat catastrophe: Too bad we're not getting that. Enjoy your two hours of humanity tracking the aliens home and committing genocide against them.

You know, I wouldn't have any sympathy for them.  Classic self-defense, writ large.  They came here first with the intent to wipe us out.

So, if someone robs your house and you follow them home and execute them, that's self-defense?

You must live in Texas.

stealing stuff /= trying to kill you and your family. Yes if someone breaks into your house and kills half your family and wounds you going after them and killing them would be pretty strong mitigating factors

But it would not be self defense. If you "go after them", that's a revenge killing. And you should be prosecuted for that.


If I get stung by a wasp near my house, you bet your ass that I'm going to hunt down that nest and annihilate their immediate family.
As for aliens, they get the same rights they extend to our race.  There wan't even a hint of wanting to coexist with humans in that movie.   Fark `em.
You speak of a matter of law.  Laws do not cover extraterrestrial invasion.  Green Lantern is a comic book.
 
2013-06-21 02:37:41 PM

Latinwolf: Because they were slaves, no one cares about slaves.


That's not true:  Slaves represent a significant monetary investment.
 
2013-06-21 02:47:37 PM

Mugato: I don't buy that the movie going audience is "stupid" either. Going to the movies is usually a date/family thing so people will watch what is presented to them. But assuming that movies that blow shiat up and movies with intelligent scripts are mutually exclusive is bullshiat. That's an excuse shiatty writers give for their shiatty writing.


I remember taking a girl to Armegeddon, totally chick flick only girl, and she made the remark "Big explosions! that was awesome" on our way out.

So yes, shiatty writing excuse indeed.
 
2013-06-21 02:54:52 PM

Mugato: Crotchrocket Slim: I've always figured that studio suits didn't quite trust Bay in his early career so... they actually did their jobs and ensured the end product would be of better quality

Studio suits doing their jobs? No, I don't buy it.

I don't buy that the movie going audience is "stupid" either. Going to the movies is usually a date/family thing so people will watch what is presented to them. But assuming that movies that blow shiat up and movies with intelligent scripts are mutually exclusive is bullshiat. That's an excuse shiatty writers give for their shiatty writing.


I'm not someone I'd call "stupid" myself but I can enjoy a "dumb" movie if it isn't too bad. I guess what I'm mostly saying is Bay could be a far better director and make more interesting films even with the BAYSPLOSIONS!!!!111 but he figured out how to be "good enough" given his formula and has been doing bare minimum since.

This reminds me that I didn't hate STID or Prometheus but I did find them both to be very derivative and falling far short of the promise of both respective concepts. Damon Lindelof has developed his writing skills such that he can pen selling screenplays but they're more designed to be "not terrible" to generate revenue for the studio, not necessarily enrich the studio brand by telling a really awesome story too.

OK even in the theatre I felt regurgitating the end of Wrath of Khan was insulting; the Khan's blood deus ex machina was pretty annoying too but doubly so with the way they slapped you about the face with obvious foreshadowing (too bad as that was about the only thing Bones did in the entire movie besides score Kirk their ride away from the pre-warp village, which Jimbo phasers).
 
2013-06-21 03:00:45 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: This reminds me that I didn't hate STID or Prometheus but I did find them both to be very derivative and falling far short of the promise of both respective concepts. Damon Lindelof has developed his writing skills such that he can pen selling screenplays but they're more designed to be "not terrible" to generate revenue for the studio, not necessarily enrich the studio brand by telling a really awesome story too.


Right. But these guys get paid a shiatload of money to write scripts that if you or I submitted them to the Screenwriting 101 class at the learning annex, we'd get a C- at best. It doesn't cost a dime more to write a script that has a shiat load of shot blowing up that also doesn't insult the audience.

I just know too many talented screenwriters who can't get work while the same 7 guys get all the cool gigs and just suck so much.

/not a screenwriter
 
2013-06-21 03:06:28 PM

Mugato: Crotchrocket Slim: This reminds me that I didn't hate STID or Prometheus but I did find them both to be very derivative and falling far short of the promise of both respective concepts. Damon Lindelof has developed his writing skills such that he can pen selling screenplays but they're more designed to be "not terrible" to generate revenue for the studio, not necessarily enrich the studio brand by telling a really awesome story too.

Right. But these guys get paid a shiatload of money to write scripts that if you or I submitted them to the Screenwriting 101 class at the learning annex, we'd get a C- at best. It doesn't cost a dime more to write a script that has a shiat load of shot blowing up that also doesn't insult the audience.

I just know too many talented screenwriters who can't get work while the same 7 guys get all the cool gigs and just suck so much.

/not a screenwriter


The nature of Hollywood is that it you can't suck at what you do too terribly but if you want to succeed you have to know the right people. This won't change until the system fails or we see more things like Phase 2 being put out for love and not profit-driven reasons. Sure that's not guarantee of quality (even Crawley will admit he cringes at the results of some of the early New Voyages/Phase 2 efforts) but once this sort of thing becomes more viable you'll see whole communities of internet-tv actors much like you have whole communities of stage actors in major cities, and maybe it won't all be funded through Kickstarter.
 
2013-06-21 03:50:03 PM
funny thing is ID4 is bashed for the one thing it does right. It is more realistic Sci-Fi than most that involves alien invasion.

Their backstory doesn't have to involve Faster than Light travel, which current science still says is impossible but most Sci-Fi just assumes will be conquered. After all they take over a planet, take all of it's resources and move on with their whole civilization, you can assume they take enough with them to make decades of travel time and therefore don't violate physics as we currently understand it.

Their plan explains why they were so sneaky about visiting us and why we were visited so frequently (scouting expeditions, they needed to know if we made any quantum leaps in technology to prepare) We just happened to be the nearest planet with the necessary resources to wherever they were plundering 50 years ago.

Yes there are stupid bits (the doc as ventriloquist dummy/musical instrument and why didn't they make their own comm satellites? that little slip is how we beat them.) but on the whole there are far fewer plot holes than most invasion films.
 
2013-06-21 04:02:21 PM

Digitalstrange: Yes there are stupid bits (the doc as ventriloquist dummy/musical instrument and why didn't they make their own comm satellites? that little slip is how we beat them.) but on the whole there are far fewer plot holes than most invasion films.


Plus, one could say that it was a "homage" to flying saucer movies from the '50s, which always featured a scene with some egghead scientist spouting off bad science. I like the movie a lot, I don't care what anyone says. I'd say it has a shiatton less plot holes than the last 2 Star Treks.
 
2013-06-21 04:09:52 PM

Digitalstrange: Yes there are stupid bits (the doc as ventriloquist dummy/musical instrument and why didn't they make their own comm satellites? that little slip is how we beat them.) but on the whole there are far fewer plot holes than most invasion films.


Why make their own when they can exploit ours?  Economically, it would make sense to use resources that are already in place instead of making new ones.

Plus, it might *LOOK* like they are using ours to us, even if they are using their own.

Let's say for the sake of argument that our communication satellites listen on 5 GHz and retransmit on 10 GHz*.  Let's say that the alienses are set up to deploy their own satellites that either listen on or transmit on either of those frequencies.  That means that when they start transmitting, their signals are going to bleed into ours.  It would look like they are using our satellites to us, even if they weren't.   We might not know they deployed anything because by the time we figure out that they are bad, we don't have the time or resources to do so.


*There are a bunch of different uplink and downlink bands, and I'm not going to bother looking up the exact freqs because that's actually irrelevant to the general idea here.
 
2013-06-21 04:25:43 PM
In again to say that Will Smith clearly says "Earth" in the film.
 
2013-06-21 04:28:59 PM
whosits_112:
That's what I want to see.

No no no. That would be too smart for Roland Hackerich. No, it will just be "THE ALIENS ARE BACK AGAIN AND THEY ARE PISSED!!!"


Which is why I enjoyed Carl Sagan's "Contact" more. Aliens just can't show up and there's no "after", even if it's only alien radio transmissions of Hitler.
 
2013-06-21 05:17:57 PM
I think they should do a complete 180.  Make part 2 about Will and Jeff trying to plan a barbeque.  Have some hi jinx happen and some shenanigans.  Then the last line of the movie, zoom in on Will Smith and have him say "You know, this Barbeque is delicious.  It wouldn't have been possible if we hadn't killed all those aliens that time."

The End
 
2013-06-21 06:12:42 PM
The only question I have for an ID4 sequel: is Las Vegas the new capital of the USA? Come to think of it, no casino has imitated DC yet -- we got Paris, NY NY, Luxor, Camelot, Caesar's ...

Also, I agree, there would be potential for an aftermath storyline, but (looks at pedigree of flick) ... not expecting much from this.
 
2013-06-21 07:07:02 PM
I can see this.

Think about it: Forget the mother ship or reinforcements: It's gone, and there aren't any. But there are still 15 or so city-sized flying saucers that crashed into the Earth, many of them still relatively intact. How many aliens were on board those things? At least a couple million each? And the ones that survived the crash..... they were right the fark pissed off.

The sequel is all about the ground war. With the aliens busting out their super mecha suits.
 
2013-06-21 08:02:19 PM

Ishkur: I can see this.

Think about it: Forget the mother ship or reinforcements: It's gone, and there aren't any. But there are still 15 or so city-sized flying saucers that crashed into the Earth, many of them still relatively intact. How many aliens were on board those things? At least a couple million each? And the ones that survived the crash..... they were right the fark pissed off.

The sequel is all about the ground war. With the aliens busting out their super mecha suits.


It'll be a variation on this:  one of the ships semi-got away and crashed in Outer Farkistan, where it's been pretty much ignored, if not forgotten entirely - after all, we're trying to rebuild the world, and we've got other fish to fry.  Then one beautiful day, somebody picks up a certain signal - not a 24 hour countdown this time, but a longer one - say, 6 or 7 days - and it's traced back to that last ship.  The remains of the worlds' militaries band together to go toe to toe with the last aliens, who have an ace up their sleeves....

/trust me on this
//Loved ID4
///Still pissed though that they never showed any B-52s or A-10s in the first one
 
2013-06-21 09:56:41 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: Mugato: Something snapped in Bay somewhere in the 2 years between The Rock and Armageddon.

He figured out the formula that in general the American viewing public are idiots when it comes to cinema

[img.fark.net image 800x937]


Michael Bay Presents - Explosions
 
x23
2013-06-22 02:55:55 AM

noheadphones: In again to say that Will Smith clearly says "Earth" in the film.


but subtle racism is just the pinnacle of sophisticated humor!
 
x23
2013-06-22 02:58:10 AM

theorellior: You know, you make a perfect argument here, except for the fact that you can clearly see the Macbook negotiating with the remote server and gaining access. Telepathic communication or not, they still managed to invent the TCP/IP stack and AppleTalk.


you can clearly see nothing of the sort.

the first MacBooks didn't exist until a full decade after the movie came out.
 
2013-06-22 08:55:50 AM
I. Farking. Loved. ID.

Call me a simpleton, call me a moron, call me whatever.   Great movie, I can watch it anytime its on, still holds up for me.

/I can haz General Gene Hackman again?
 
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