NostroZ: sendtodave: clambam: Genocide! Apartheid! Land grab!The state of Israel itself was a lad grab.Everything else follows from that.? Are you being intentionally sarcastic or trolling ?
clambam: Genocide! Apartheid! Land grab!
themindiswatching: 1. Does the US carry out the punishment for groups who do this by removing their tax-exempt status? I have not heard of the IRS actually doing so. (I also have the feeling that if the IRS tried, that part would get thrown out on First Amendment grounds.)
themindiswatching: 2. Define "fundamentalist".
themindiswatching: 3. Humans are tribal in general, it just manifests itself differently in the West. Sports teams, for example.
themindiswatching: 4. It won't be if we continue to tell the Middle East that their democracy "isn't good enough" because they elect people we don't like.
themindiswatching: 5. It won't now.Things may have been different before the 20th century, though. Oh wait, they were.
themindiswatching: We've had a few hundred years to iron out the issues
themindiswatching: people in the West think that's a bad thing because it's not like ours yet.
themindiswatching: The other guy had ties to Hosni Mubarak's regime. It's understandable why they wouldn't want to go back to that.
themindiswatching: That's the whole point of democracy. While it may be a net negative for individual rights, it's their choice to make.
Mrfusticle: Pro-tip: Revolutions are always executed by the middle class
Mrfusticle: magine if those protests happened in the US (ie the US was governed by populist, backward religious zealots or military dictators) .. It would be young students and middle class types demanding more political and economic freedom.. But wait! That's all very well on the surface but if they actually got their way and had *gasp* elections then the country would be taken over by even worse fundamentalist throwbacks!Pro-tip: Revolutions are always executed by the middle class
NostroZ: n the Middle East there is NO HISTORY OF DEMOCRACY.They have NEVER had it and they do NOT WORK in an independently minded fashion. They are a TRIBAL culture. They vote with their tribe. There is no debate or discussion. You are either WITH US or AGAINST US. That's how extremists work, all the time (not just after 9/11, as with Bush).
Mrfusticle: Yo're right! The Israel land grab was performed in the modern era with the tacit consent of the UN and backed by the US --- The NA holocaust was perpetrated hundreds of years ago by some antediluvian thugs.
zimbach: Generations have died and continue to fight over a tiny stretch of land, and even tinier subsections of that land, and the only explanation anyone can give is some variant of "We were here first" and/or "G-d told us to move here". But really, what's so great about it? Geographically, it's a place a lot of different people would have to pass through while going between Africa, Arabia, and the Caucuses, and thus might make a good place for a toll booth, but it seems a thoroughly unpleasant place to live for any length of time, women of the IDF notwithstanding.
Stone Meadow: NostroZ: This is how a military theocracy works. PalestiniansHamas do NOT want Democracy.Here is your proof.Fixed...though there is some overlap.
NostroZ: This is how a military theocracy works. PalestiniansHamas do NOT want Democracy.Here is your proof.
clambam: Curse those Israelis for forcing the Palestinians to be corrupt kleptocrats! And look how Israel has maneuvered Assad into use nerve gas on his own people! Meanwhile the Israeli genocide against the Palestinian people continues as evil Jews lull innocent Arabs into a sense of false security by allowing their numbers to quadruple in the West Bank since 1967. Then, when they least expect it, Wham! Genocide! Booyah! And don't get me started on how the Jews' unwillingness to allow relentlessly hostile people who are not now and have never been citizens of Israel, free access to the entire country is apartheid. It's apartheid, I tell you! They have no homeland, certainly not that country next door where they make up 60% of the population! Or the Israeli land grab which can be measured in acres per year--acres per year!--which will result in the complete occupation of the West Bank some time in the late 2070's. Genocide! Apartheid! Land grab! It's not fair! Why won't the cursed Israelis let their neighbors kills them?
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