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(Jezebel)   The Social Security Administration will join the 21st century and allow for gender identity change   (powderroom.jezebel.com) divider line 50
    More: PSA, SSA, sex-change operations  
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338 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Jun 2013 at 1:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-20 01:51:50 PM
I'm not sure why the Social Security Administration was doing underwear checks in the first place, so, good.
 
2013-06-20 01:53:23 PM
Yes, but is this a Type 1 or Type 1 data change?

//Was it a data entry error to begin with?
 
2013-06-20 01:53:58 PM
I swear I said "Type 1 or Type 2"

Fark? are you messing with me?
 
2013-06-20 01:58:47 PM

MindStalker: I swear I said "Type 1 or Type 1"

Fark? are you messing with me?


Uh...
 
2013-06-20 02:05:45 PM
Well, good.
 
2013-06-20 02:10:09 PM
Do men get a 20 to 30% higher payment?
 
2013-06-20 02:32:39 PM
People lopping off their naughty bits and pretending to be another gender is nothing new.
 
2013-06-20 02:49:20 PM
Been chatting all day with a friend who's finally growing some boobies after 6 months of hormone therapy, so I'm getting a kick.  I don't think he's going to let me play with them, though.
 
2013-06-20 02:49:30 PM

1derful: People lopping off their naughty bits and pretending to be another gender is nothing new.


In the same vein of thought, making ill-informed posts on the Internet is nothing new.
 
2013-06-20 03:03:27 PM
TIL how important this is. Article presents the topic to the uninitiated quite well.
 
2013-06-20 03:08:19 PM

1derful: People lopping off their naughty bits and pretending to be another gender is nothing new.


Large bureaucracies are not noted for their agility.  If it wasn't there from day one, you're going to have to wait.

/sometimes that's a good thing
//often it's not
 
2013-06-20 03:14:06 PM

1derful: People lopping off their naughty bits and pretending to be another gender is nothing new.


If it seems like people would have to pretend in order to believe they are another gender, i hope you made the right decision to not have the surgery.

Sorry to pass judgement like that, but it just smacks of homosexual homophobes choosing the path of ungayness.
 
2013-06-20 03:31:16 PM
When will they allow for racial identity change?
 
2013-06-20 04:06:24 PM
Wow, they sure started crawling out of the woodwork early in this thread.
 
2013-06-20 04:22:21 PM

brukmann: 1derful: People lopping off their naughty bits and pretending to be another gender is nothing new.

If it seems like people would have to pretend in order to believe they are another gender, i hope you made the right decision to not have the surgery.

Sorry to pass judgement like that, but it just smacks of homosexual homophobes choosing the path of ungayness.


Uh... being transgender has nothing to do with sexual orientation.  There are m-to-f trangendered people who are into women, and f-to-m transgendered people who are into men.  And there are cis- and trans- gendered folks who are into both (aka bi), or neither (aka asexual).
 
2013-06-20 04:25:10 PM
Sounds reasonable.  I'm sure this will upset those who hate additional checkboxes from which to choose.
 
2013-06-20 05:11:05 PM
I try to be open minded with that whole gender identity thing, but please do it well. That "woman" running the register at the Half Price Books in McKinney was almost Pythonesque, what with the mustache and falsetto voice. Although, if "she" shut up and was 20 feet away, was half way hot.
 
2013-06-20 05:35:08 PM

wildcardjack: I try to be open minded with that whole gender identity thing, but please do it well. That "woman" running the register at the Half Price Books in McKinney was almost Pythonesque, what with the mustache and falsetto voice. Although, if "she" shut up and was 20 feet away, was half way hot.


Do you think it's easy to just switch like that and get it perfect? Most are trying to "do it well," but that's not always possible. You can be assured that if someone is putting themselves out like that, they are fully aware of how they look and that this is still the better alternative to just being a guy (or girl for FtMs) for them. I can't speak for her, but this woman at the bookstore probably has a hard enough time without your valuable input (and the quotation marks are not "cool").

Besides, you've seen plenty of men and women who aren't even half-way hot from 20 feet or more away. Nobody's telling you to ask her out.
 
2013-06-20 05:38:53 PM
Not sure I get it if they are allowing the pre-op trans to be considered their new gender. How can you have a dick and balls and be a woman or have a vagina and be a man? I guess this is the one issue I struggle to maintain my social liberalness on, though it's not like I think they don't deserve equal rights, I just don't get the whole thing. Personally I'll respect their wishes and call them what they want, but in my own mind they still are what they were in the first place (unless they got the whole thing done I guess).

/at least I didn't say "tranny", I'm trying to "evolve" (as douchey politicians say) on this issue
//still say "midget", dwarfs are mythical creatures and little person sounds like an insult
 
2013-06-20 05:43:34 PM

TheJoe03: Not sure I get it if they are allowing the pre-op trans to be considered their new gender. How can you have a dick and balls and be a woman or have a vagina and be a man?


It's just self-identification. What's the problem? If someone identifies as female why require them to have their bits rearranged to prove it?
 
2013-06-20 05:47:03 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: It's just self-identification. What's the problem? If someone identifies as female why require them to have their bits rearranged to prove it?


Let's just say I'm not convinced that self identification is enough to be official in the govt's eyes. I can self identify as a Native American but I doubt the govt would accept it, but maybe they would, could be wrong. I don't really care if the govt accepts their self identification, I'm a live and let live kind of guy (it's none of my business and it hurts no one) but like I said I'm trying to wrap my head around this issue in general (for my own personal knowledge and benefit).
 
2013-06-20 05:48:39 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: TheJoe03: Not sure I get it if they are allowing the pre-op trans to be considered their new gender. How can you have a dick and balls and be a woman or have a vagina and be a man?

It's just self-identification. What's the problem? If someone identifies as female why require them to have their bits rearranged to prove it?


Because I think sexual organs are a pretty big factor in determining gender.
 
2013-06-20 05:49:34 PM

TheJoe03: A Dark Evil Omen: It's just self-identification. What's the problem? If someone identifies as female why require them to have their bits rearranged to prove it?

Let's just say I'm not convinced that self identification is enough to be official in the govt's eyes. I can self identify as a Native American but I doubt the govt would accept it, but maybe they would, could be wrong. I don't really care if the govt accepts their self identification, I'm a live and let live kind of guy (it's none of my business and it hurts no one) but like I said I'm trying to wrap my head around this issue in general (for my own personal knowledge and benefit).


Well, for the census they rely on self-identification as far as race goes. I just don't see there being any compelling reason not to accept gender self-identification.
 
2013-06-20 05:52:06 PM

TheJoe03: Not sure I get it if they are allowing the pre-op trans to be considered their new gender. How can you have a dick and balls and be a woman or have a vagina and be a man? I guess this is the one issue I struggle to maintain my social liberalness on, though it's not like I think they don't deserve equal rights, I just don't get the whole thing. Personally I'll respect their wishes and call them what they want, but in my own mind they still are what they were in the first place (unless they got the whole thing done I guess).

/at least I didn't say "tranny", I'm trying to "evolve" (as douchey politicians say) on this issue
//still say "midget", dwarfs are mythical creatures and little person sounds like an insult


SRS/GRS surgery is expensive. One must also pass the real life test- living as that gender for a year.Which can make it hard to work if ones' social security info comes back as the gender not matched on the resume or drivers license. Plus- not all trans folks go for the op, for various reasons.

In other words- it doesnt affect your life one bit, if you are non trans.
 
2013-06-20 05:54:16 PM

alienated: SRS/GRS surgery is expensive. One must also pass the real life test- living as that gender for a year.Which can make it hard to work if ones' social security info comes back as the gender not matched on the resume or drivers license.


Good reasoning, thank you.
 
2013-06-20 05:57:54 PM

TheJoe03: Not sure I get it if they are allowing the pre-op trans to be considered their new gender. How can you have a dick and balls and be a woman or have a vagina and be a man? I guess this is the one issue I struggle to maintain my social liberalness on, though it's not like I think they don't deserve equal rights, I just don't get the whole thing. Personally I'll respect their wishes and call them what they want, but in my own mind they still are what they were in the first place (unless they got the whole thing done I guess).

/at least I didn't say "tranny", I'm trying to "evolve" (as douchey politicians say) on this issue
//still say "midget", dwarfs are mythical creatures and little person sounds like an insult


I can't really answer your question but I've known some really cool men that didn't have a penis and some really cool women that did and you wouldn't know unless they told you.
/At least you're trying to evolve, just be happy you're comfortable in the gender you were assigned at birth and let others be happy in the gender they need to be.
 
2013-06-20 06:00:56 PM

SwissArmyGnome: wildcardjack: I try to be open minded with that whole gender identity thing, but please do it well. That "woman" running the register at the Half Price Books in McKinney was almost Pythonesque, what with the mustache and falsetto voice. Although, if "she" shut up and was 20 feet away, was half way hot.

Do you think it's easy to just switch like that and get it perfect? Most are trying to "do it well," but that's not always possible. You can be assured that if someone is putting themselves out like that, they are fully aware of how they look and that this is still the better alternative to just being a guy (or girl for FtMs) for them. I can't speak for her, but this woman at the bookstore probably has a hard enough time without your valuable input (and the quotation marks are not "cool").

Besides, you've seen plenty of men and women who aren't even half-way hot from 20 feet or more away. Nobody's telling you to ask her out.


Come on, ten minutes with hot wax and I wouldn't have had any thoughts. It was the "two things wrong" that got my attention.
 
2013-06-20 06:06:57 PM

tinfoil-hat maggie: just be happy you're comfortable in the gender you were assigned at birth and let others be happy in the gender they need to be.


True that, it can't be easy to be in their shoes at all, plus it seems they have it worse than the LGB side of the LGBT community.
 
2013-06-20 06:13:48 PM

TheJoe03: tinfoil-hat maggie: just be happy you're comfortable in the gender you were assigned at birth and let others be happy in the gender they need to be.

True that, it can't be easy to be in their shoes at all, plus it seems they have it worse than the LGB side of the LGBT community.


This is unfortunately true. Transphobia is a serious problem in the gay and lesbian community. Certain radical feminists also have a massive hate-on for mtf transsexuals.
 
2013-06-20 06:15:12 PM

TheJoe03: tinfoil-hat maggie: just be happy you're comfortable in the gender you were assigned at birth and let others be happy in the gender they need to be.

True that, it can't be easy to be in their shoes at all, plus it seems they have it worse than the LGB side of the LGBT community.


One is sexual identity where all you have to do is tell you're friends and family and deal with the fallout the other is about gender identity where all you have to do is tell you're friends and family deal with the fallout and then spend a bunch of money on the transition which includes no less than two psychologists one has to have a PHD. HRT, etc.
 
2013-06-20 06:16:32 PM

wildcardjack: SwissArmyGnome: wildcardjack: I try to be open minded with that whole gender identity thing, but please do it well. That "woman" running the register at the Half Price Books in McKinney was almost Pythonesque, what with the mustache and falsetto voice. Although, if "she" shut up and was 20 feet away, was half way hot.

Do you think it's easy to just switch like that and get it perfect? Most are trying to "do it well," but that's not always possible. You can be assured that if someone is putting themselves out like that, they are fully aware of how they look and that this is still the better alternative to just being a guy (or girl for FtMs) for them. I can't speak for her, but this woman at the bookstore probably has a hard enough time without your valuable input (and the quotation marks are not "cool").

Besides, you've seen plenty of men and women who aren't even half-way hot from 20 feet or more away. Nobody's telling you to ask her out.

Come on, ten minutes with hot wax and I wouldn't have had any thoughts. It was the "two things wrong" that got my attention.


Then those are probably the two areas she's having a hard time with. It takes time. Vocal training is tricky, and facial hair can be very stubborn. She might already be undergoing laser hair removal or electrolysis, but it takes months before the effects are significant, and you can't just wax it off in the middle of the process.

Anyway, if I knew her I might give her some make-up tips or something. But in the meantime, I'm betting she hasn't prioritized your comfort level or mine when considering her grooming routine.

Some people do have cosmetic flaws, but it's generally not cool to fixate on them.
 
2013-06-20 06:38:57 PM
Oh great, now all the mtf's will be able to make the taxpayers pay for their birth control. THANKS, OBAMA!
 
2013-06-20 08:29:46 PM

TheJoe03: Not sure I get it if they are allowing the pre-op trans to be considered their new gender. How can you have a dick and balls and be a woman or have a vagina and be a man? I guess this is the one issue I struggle to maintain my social liberalness on, though it's not like I think they don't deserve equal rights, I just don't get the whole thing. Personally I'll respect their wishes and call them what they want, but in my own mind they still are what they were in the first place (unless they got the whole thing done I guess).

/at least I didn't say "tranny", I'm trying to "evolve" (as douchey politicians say) on this issue
//still say "midget", dwarfs are mythical creatures and little person sounds like an insult


Not everyone can get surgery for medical or financial reasons; should we be forced to deal with having ID in the wrong gender for the rest of our lives?

/Medically restricted (turned down by three docs).
//Having the part bothers me MUCH less than having a birth certificate and SSA gender of "M"
///I can change my BC on 1/1/2014.
////Consider that until 2009, the SSA was sending out "gender mismatch" papers to businesses that hired people whose appearance and SSA records didn't align; true stealth was impossible. They still do it in some circumstances, I believe.
//Waiting for the requisite letter to arrive from my doctor, then I'm updating it.
 
2013-06-20 08:35:59 PM

TheJoe03: A Dark Evil Omen: It's just self-identification. What's the problem? If someone identifies as female why require them to have their bits rearranged to prove it?

Let's just say I'm not convinced that self identification is enough to be official in the govt's eyes. I can self identify as a Native American but I doubt the govt would accept it, but maybe they would, could be wrong. I don't really care if the govt accepts their self identification, I'm a live and let live kind of guy (it's none of my business and it hurts no one) but like I said I'm trying to wrap my head around this issue in general (for my own personal knowledge and benefit).


Hey, if you can get a therapist and at least two medical professionals to agree that you are a Native American, give you medicines that give you the visual appearance of a Native American (or something close to it), AND are willing to live in a halfway stage where people see you as an oddity for a year? More power to you.

Wait, you thought they just accepted a person's word? You're funny.
 
2013-06-20 08:40:44 PM

Skyrmion: Oh great, now all the mtf's will be able to make the taxpayers pay for their birth control. THANKS, OBAMA!


You joke, but progesterone is prescribed in small doses sometimes... I'm starting a 60-day course this weekend.
 
2013-06-20 08:41:52 PM

Exception Collection: Wait, you thought they just accepted a person's word? You're funny.


You can correct me and share your views without being a dick, I'm admitting I come from a place of ignorance and am trying to learn more about the topic so I can make a better informed opinion.
 
2013-06-20 08:45:06 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: TheJoe03: tinfoil-hat maggie: just be happy you're comfortable in the gender you were assigned at birth and let others be happy in the gender they need to be.

True that, it can't be easy to be in their shoes at all, plus it seems they have it worse than the LGB side of the LGBT community.

This is unfortunately true. Transphobia is a serious problem in the gay and lesbian community. Certain radical feminists also have a massive hate-on for mtf transsexuals.


I laughed till I cried when I found out Cathy Brennan (a famous "Radical Feminist") was thrown out of a gay club because she and another TERF (Trans Exterminationist RadFem) decided to have a few drinks there during their T* night.

/She called me a freak. Me, specifically.
 
2013-06-20 08:54:15 PM

TheJoe03: Exception Collection: Wait, you thought they just accepted a person's word? You're funny.

You can correct me and share your views without being a dick, I'm admitting I come from a place of ignorance and am trying to learn more about the topic so I can make a better informed opinion.


I apologize, the use of "tranny" earlier got to me. I (and a lot of others) consider it to be a lot like that word Paula Deen's being excoriated for using.

But no, letters are required frequently. So far, I have a therapist's note for starting hormones, a therapist's note to change ID, another therapist's note to be approved for surgery (I'd need a second one by surgery date, but since those are generally 6 mo-1yr out I waited), doctor's note for ID change, Doctor's for surgery, and I'm waiting for Doctor's notes for SSA change, Passport gender marker, and Birth Certificate change. I will also need a signed judgement from a judge in my birth state to get my BC changed.

This, of course, is in addition to the dozen or so name change letters and postings I was required to make.

Fortunately, my home State of Oregon requires less paperwork than most states.

/I have to prove I'm still sane and healthy every time I get a new letter.
 
2013-06-20 08:58:18 PM
Oh, and I've had people that prescribe me meds tell me "I'm not signing this statement that you are receiving the right treatment, I have no idea if it's right or not."

That was when I found another doc... Who said the same damned thing. Fortunately now I have enough money that I can barely afford to go to real, trained doctors instead of FNPs at the local low-income clinic.
 
2013-06-20 09:00:58 PM

Exception Collection: I apologize, the use of "tranny" earlier got to me. I (and a lot of others) consider it to be a lot like that word Paula Deen's being excoriated for using.


Does that mean it can at some point be used as a term of endearment? I don't think I have ever said that word in a hateful manner. Like I said, I'm trying to not use that word anymore since I've heard it's very disrespectful to your community.

Exception Collection: But no, letters are required frequently. So far, I have a therapist's note for starting hormones, a therapist's note to change ID, another therapist's note to be approved for surgery (I'd need a second one by surgery date, but since those are generally 6 mo-1yr out I waited), doctor's note for ID change, Doctor's for surgery, and I'm waiting for Doctor's notes for SSA change, Passport gender marker, and Birth Certificate change. I will also need a signed judgement from a judge in my birth state to get my BC changed.

This, of course, is in addition to the dozen or so name change letters and postings I was required to make.

Fortunately, my home State of Oregon requires less paperwork than most states.

/I have to prove I'm still sane and healthy every time I get a new letter.


Damn, I didn't know how much BS and paperwork you guys had to go through, hopefully a better system can be created within the law. I'd assume that is a major issue the trans community is pushing, at least it should be. I wish you all the luck and I hope you can make it happen and you can be a happier and more complete person because of it.

/I might be ignorant in some ways, but never in a hateful manner. Now that I better understand the situation I support the SSA's decision completely.
 
2013-06-20 09:05:07 PM

TheJoe03: Exception Collection: Wait, you thought they just accepted a person's word? You're funny.

You can correct me and share your views without being a dick, I'm admitting I come from a place of ignorance and am trying to learn more about the topic so I can make a better informed opinion.


It's a touchy subject no pun intend and I comend you for trying to understand if you're really curious cheack out these books.
img.fark.net
img.fark.net
/interesting reads I haven't read her newer stuff.
 
2013-06-20 09:09:27 PM

Exception Collection: A Dark Evil Omen: TheJoe03: tinfoil-hat maggie: just be happy you're comfortable in the gender you were assigned at birth and let others be happy in the gender they need to be.

True that, it can't be easy to be in their shoes at all, plus it seems they have it worse than the LGB side of the LGBT community.

This is unfortunately true. Transphobia is a serious problem in the gay and lesbian community. Certain radical feminists also have a massive hate-on for mtf transsexuals.

I laughed till I cried when I found out Cathy Brennan (a famous "Radical Feminist") was thrown out of a gay club because she and another TERF (Trans Exterminationist RadFem) decided to have a few drinks there during their T* night.

/She called me a freak. Me, specifically.


That must have been interesting. I try and stay away from radical people it never ends well.
 
2013-06-20 10:30:50 PM
How long is society going to feed these people's delusions?
 
2013-06-20 11:31:54 PM

Frank N Stein: How long is society going to feed these people's delusions?


Well, we put up with yours for several centuries, so we'll probably swing back towards bigotry and the "[x group] (that's different than me) is clearly inferior" delusion in another several hundred years.
 
2013-06-20 11:49:32 PM

Frank N Stein: How long is society going to feed these people's delusions?


If there's physiological evidence for differences in brain structure and functioning then it's not a delusion.
 
2013-06-21 12:54:38 AM

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: brukmann: 1derful: People lopping off their naughty bits and pretending to be another gender is nothing new.

If it seems like people would have to pretend in order to believe they are another gender, i hope you made the right decision to not have the surgery.

Sorry to pass judgement like that, but it just smacks of homosexual homophobes choosing the path of ungayness.

Uh... being transgender has nothing to do with sexual orientation.  There are m-to-f trangendered people who are into women, and f-to-m transgendered people who are into men.  And there are cis- and trans- gendered folks who are into both (aka bi), or neither (aka asexual).


Well, thanks for the history lesson, but i think we got are wires crossed somewhere. I know.
 
2013-06-21 12:55:46 AM

Frank N Stein: How long is society going to feed these people's delusions?


Infinity years past your death. You know it's true. You're completely impotent.
 
2013-06-21 10:13:32 AM

Exception Collection: I laughed till I cried when I found out Cathy Brennan (a famous "Radical Feminist") was thrown out of a gay club because she and another TERF (Trans Exterminationist RadFem) decided to have a few drinks there during their T* night.


The funniest part when she tried to spin it as misogyny.
 
2013-06-21 11:50:30 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Exception Collection: I laughed till I cried when I found out Cathy Brennan (a famous "Radical Feminist") was thrown out of a gay club because she and another TERF (Trans Exterminationist RadFem) decided to have a few drinks there during their T* night.

The funniest part when she tried to spin it as misogyny.


Yup. Clearly it had nothing to do with her being known as even more odious towards transgender people than Fred Phelps is towards gay people.

/I actually had a nightmare about running into Cathy Brennan once.
//Somehow I'd gotten it into my head that she lived in the Seattle area, and I was prepping to move here.
 
2013-06-22 12:03:50 AM

TheJoe03: Not sure I get it if they are allowing the pre-op trans to be considered their new gender. How can you have a dick and balls and be a woman or have a vagina and be a man? I guess this is the one issue I struggle to maintain my social liberalness on, though it's not like I think they don't deserve equal rights, I just don't get the whole thing. Personally I'll respect their wishes and call them what they want, but in my own mind they still are what they were in the first place (unless they got the whole thing done I guess).

/at least I didn't say "tranny", I'm trying to "evolve" (as douchey politicians say) on this issue
//still say "midget", dwarfs are mythical creatures and little person sounds like an insult


FtM surgery is . . .well, most get the ability to pee standing up, but is the extent if function. Surgeons start with less available vasodilating tissue, and don't have a means to construct it from anything else. In addition, routing nerves that were internal (shorter nerves) to external doesn't always work.

And that's just the FtM surgery. Add the expense of the surgery, and that some insurances still disagree with doctors and statistics that it is the best available treatment, and some people have lots of reasons to avoid surgery.

/the bit about Australia allowing a 3rd gender in paper work makes me want to emigrate even more.
 
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