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(Slate)   The plight of the robotic underclass in Star Wars. Yes, the droids were discriminated against repeatedly by Imperials and Rebels alike   (slate.com) divider line 72
    More: Sad, Star Wars, rebels, documentary television, cognitive robotics, Naboo, C-3PO, Princess Leia, George Lucas  
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1810 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 20 Jun 2013 at 9:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-20 10:02:34 AM
what do 011101 11e want?000h0 1H1\]01ality
 
2013-06-20 10:11:12 AM
Reparations for Gonk!

GONK!!
 
2013-06-20 10:15:58 AM
R2-D2 was an Uncle Tom.
 
2013-06-20 10:17:57 AM
"metal people" this will be my new band name.
 
2013-06-20 10:20:06 AM
I've often wondered what would happen if the colonial fleet crossed the star wars galaxy and learned about restraining bolts.
 
2013-06-20 10:22:12 AM
we see this all over the Earth..

kids die from diarrhea in some countries and others complain about wanting a PS4 instead of XBone

Cows are sacred in some parts and eaten in others..

 Gangs kill each others with guns every night.. but the outrage is selective to schools or workplace violence

the Matrix,  Bicentennial Man.. Asimov robots, all dealt with machines helping humans to gaining rights or acceptance

Star Wars just shows there are different viewpoints with millions of different races trying to co-exists  which makes any Sci-fi that doesnt just assume everyone is human with our same moral code as the viewing audience.
 
2013-06-20 10:23:22 AM
ignore my post   ghess i cant form a thought..
 
2013-06-20 10:31:29 AM
Meanwhile, Futurama tackled the really delicate robot discrimination issues:


img.fark.net
 
2013-06-20 10:38:52 AM
www.virginmedia.com

Let. My. People. Go.
 
2013-06-20 10:40:15 AM

Evil Mackerel: I've often wondered what would happen if the colonial fleet crossed the star wars galaxy and learned about restraining bolts.


You mean one of these?

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-20 10:40:39 AM
Tech world problem.....
 
2013-06-20 10:40:40 AM
Wait, you mean to tell me that George Lucas is a shallow writer who doesn't think things through? Well I for one am SHOCKED at such an insinuation.
 
2013-06-20 10:45:45 AM
That's bullshiat. Data was treated just fine. Maybe those other robots didn't apply themselves enough to get into Starfleet.
 
2013-06-20 10:54:23 AM

TV's Vinnie: Evil Mackerel: I've often wondered what would happen if the colonial fleet crossed the star wars galaxy and learned about restraining bolts.

You mean one of these?

[img.fark.net image 367x324]


I'd give her a bolt while she was restrained, if ya know what I mean, and I thikn you do.
 
2013-06-20 11:08:14 AM
They're machines. It's like discriminating against my dishwasher or clothes dryer.
 
2013-06-20 11:09:01 AM

kendelrio: That's bullshiat. Data was treated just fine. Maybe those other robots didn't apply themselves enough to get into Starfleet.


Data was homosexual, just like 3P0.
 
2013-06-20 11:14:23 AM

theorellior: They're machines. It's like discriminating against my dishwasher or clothes dryer.


img.fark.net

Here I am, brain the size of a planet...
 
2013-06-20 11:20:38 AM
Been done in the EU already, its the http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Droid_Revolution & the droids lost
 
2013-06-20 11:20:53 AM
Don't forget the bartenders who refuse to serve their kind.
 
2013-06-20 11:26:14 AM
This is why I always thought it was stupid to criticize Lucas because Obi Wan and Darth Vader don't recognize Threepio and Artoo decades after the prequel trilogy.  To the viewer, they're beloved, iconic characters.  To the other characters, they're appliances.  Just because Artoo was your imaginary friend when you were six doesn't mean that Obi Wan would recognize him any more than his old dishwasher.
 
2013-06-20 11:26:47 AM

ShadowKamui: Been done in the EU already, its the http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Droid_Revolution & the droids lost


Well, duh. A little magnetic field here, a little microwave radiation there, and those things go to hell.
 
2013-06-20 11:28:15 AM

buckeyebrain: Don't forget the bartenders who refuse to serve their kind.


Droids don't drink, anyway.  They'd just be taking up space.  Like guys that go to strip bars and don't tip the dancers.
 
2013-06-20 11:36:13 AM

dj_spanmaster: ShadowKamui: Been done in the EU already, its the http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Droid_Revolution & the droids lost

Well, duh. A little magnetic field here, a little microwave radiation there, and those things go to hell.


Only an issue for inferior models meatbag
 
2013-06-20 11:38:09 AM
Well where Lucas fails is that people would treat droids, particularly useful talking droids  like C3P0 or helpful friendly droids like R2D2 like beloved pets not property. Hell we all ready do that with Roombas and those don't have personalities. Once bots achieve useful humanoid shapes and personalities, well they will become members of the family, just like pets, and not slaves.
 
2013-06-20 11:41:52 AM

Walt_Jizzney: kendelrio: That's bullshiat. Data was treated just fine. Maybe those other robots didn't apply themselves enough to get into Starfleet.

Data was homosexual, just like 3P0.


Data banged Tasha Yar.
 
2013-06-20 11:42:42 AM

grinding_journalist: Walt_Jizzney: kendelrio: That's bullshiat. Data was treated just fine. Maybe those other robots didn't apply themselves enough to get into Starfleet.

Data was homosexual, just like 3P0.

Data banged Tasha Yar.


It was his experimentl phase.
 
2013-06-20 11:52:35 AM

Slaves2Darkness: Well where Lucas fails is that people would treat droids, particularly useful talking droids  like C3P0 or helpful friendly droids like R2D2 like beloved pets not property. Hell we all ready do that with Roombas and those don't have personalities. Once bots achieve useful humanoid shapes and personalities, well they will become members of the family, just like pets, and not slaves.


counter point: the treatment of actual slaves
 
2013-06-20 11:59:47 AM

tlchwi02: Slaves2Darkness: Well where Lucas fails is that people would treat droids, particularly useful talking droids  like C3P0 or helpful friendly droids like R2D2 like beloved pets not property. Hell we all ready do that with Roombas and those don't have personalities. Once bots achieve useful humanoid shapes and personalities, well they will become members of the family, just like pets, and not slaves.

counter point: the treatment of actual slaves


Except the reason you treat slaves that way is because they have the ability to refuse to work or fark. Droids don't have this capability.
 
2013-06-20 12:02:45 PM
Dexter Jettster: This baby belongs to them cloners. What you got here is a Kamino Saberdart.
Obi-Wan: I wonder why it didn't show up in the analysis archives.
Dexter Jettster: It's these funny little cuts on the side that give it away. Those analysis droids only focus on symbols. Huh! I should think that you Jedi would have more respect for the difference between knowledge and... heh heh heh... wisdom.
Obi-Wan: Well if droids could think, there'd be none of us here, would there?
 
2013-06-20 12:04:24 PM

Slaves2Darkness: tlchwi02: Slaves2Darkness: Well where Lucas fails is that people would treat droids, particularly useful talking droids  like C3P0 or helpful friendly droids like R2D2 like beloved pets not property. Hell we all ready do that with Roombas and those don't have personalities. Once bots achieve useful humanoid shapes and personalities, well they will become members of the family, just like pets, and not slaves.

counter point: the treatment of actual slaves

Except the reason you treat slaves that way is because they have the ability to refuse to work or fark. Droids don't have this capability.


Yes they do unless they put a restraining bolt on them
 
2013-06-20 12:19:52 PM

grinding_journalist: Walt_Jizzney: kendelrio: That's bullshiat. Data was treated just fine. Maybe those other robots didn't apply themselves enough to get into Starfleet.

Data was homosexual, just like 3P0.

Data banged Tasha Yar.


Data was programmed in "Multiple techniques" from the memories of all the people on that colony that the Crystalline Entity smoked. I'm sure some of them involved man-on-man action! :P
 
2013-06-20 12:25:22 PM

grinding_journalist: Walt_Jizzney: kendelrio: That's bullshiat. Data was treated just fine. Maybe those other robots didn't apply themselves enough to get into Starfleet.

Data was homosexual, just like 3P0.

Data banged Tasha Yar.



img.fark.net
 
2013-06-20 12:28:00 PM

Great_Milenko: This is why I always thought it was stupid to criticize Lucas because Obi Wan and Darth Vader don't recognize Threepio and Artoo decades after the prequel trilogy.  To the viewer, they're beloved, iconic characters.  To the other characters, they're appliances.  Just because Artoo was your imaginary friend when you were six doesn't mean that Obi Wan would recognize him any more than his old dishwasher.


Not just that, but they were standardized models. There was more than one 3PO droid out there, more than one R2 unit. In-universe, they would have been built by the thousands. So Obi-Wan and Anakin might be able to look directly at their old droids without recognizing them for what they were. Just because I used to own a '92 Saturn doesn't mean I'm going to recognize the one I actually owned if I crossed paths with it again.
 
2013-06-20 12:35:09 PM

theorellior: They're machines. It's like discriminating against my dishwasher or clothes dryer.


At least your dishwasher and dryer have silicon heaven to look forward to, not like us sad sacks of water.
 
2013-06-20 12:35:39 PM

akula: Great_Milenko: This is why I always thought it was stupid to criticize Lucas because Obi Wan and Darth Vader don't recognize Threepio and Artoo decades after the prequel trilogy.  To the viewer, they're beloved, iconic characters.  To the other characters, they're appliances.  Just because Artoo was your imaginary friend when you were six doesn't mean that Obi Wan would recognize him any more than his old dishwasher.

Not just that, but they were standardized models. There was more than one 3PO droid out there, more than one R2 unit. In-universe, they would have been built by the thousands. So Obi-Wan and Anakin might be able to look directly at their old droids without recognizing them for what they were. Just because I used to own a '92 Saturn doesn't mean I'm going to recognize the one I actually owned if I crossed paths with it again.


Who says they were the same droids?  They could have been completely different models.  It's not like they remembered Master Ani or Obi Wan either.  Sure, a memory wipe would do that too, but the R2D2 in Episodes IV-VI didn't have flying jets in its feet.

PizzaJedi81: TV's Vinnie: Evil Mackerel: I've often wondered what would happen if the colonial fleet crossed the star wars galaxy and learned about restraining bolts.

You mean one of these?

[img.fark.net image 367x324]

I'd give her a bolt while she was restrained, if ya know what I mean, and I thikn you do.


Would you introduce to her the One and give her a religious experience?
 
2013-06-20 12:43:18 PM
Even as a kid, I was confused with the droid torture scenes.

Why would you make a robot that could feel pain?   What good would it do to torture a machine?
 
2013-06-20 12:44:41 PM
I laughed at the "well I guess I'm the commander now" line.
 
2013-06-20 01:05:22 PM

Duck_of_Doom: theorellior: They're machines. It's like discriminating against my dishwasher or clothes dryer.

At least your dishwasher and dryer have silicon heaven to look forward to, not like us sad sacks of water.


No, remember, those machines are too simple to have the belief chip built in, just like your good friend, Talkie Toaster!
 
2013-06-20 01:10:13 PM
I distinctly recall being somewhat aghast at the droid having its feet burned in Jabba's palace. One, droids feel pain? Two, the beg for mercy? Yeah, I had the inklings of a thought which, had I pursued it, would have probably ended up as this article.

WTF, George?
 
2013-06-20 01:19:24 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Dexter Jettster: This baby belongs to them cloners. What you got here is a Kamino Saberdart.


Why Lucas felt the need to have a 50s diner run by an alien slob on Coruscant completely mystified me.
 
2013-06-20 01:20:54 PM

JerkStore: I distinctly recall being somewhat aghast at the droid having its feet burned in Jabba's palace. One, droids feel pain? Two, the beg for mercy? Yeah, I had the inklings of a thought which, had I pursued it, would have probably ended up as this article.

WTF, George?


Ya that scene is the stupidest scene in Return of the Jedi and should have been a dark indicator of things to come.
 
2013-06-20 01:24:59 PM
Robots in Star Wars are not androids. They are not self-aware. They are programmed to have the appearance of self-awareness. They are mass-produced by large factories, and they're basically the iPhones of the Star Wars universe. They can talk, they can tell jokes, they can serve you, and they can even seem concerned, but they are not truly feeling anything; It's all part of their A.I. program.

I don't know how this confuses people so much. Some of you must truly have been boggled by INFOCOM games, and felt bad turning them off because you were "killing" them.
 
2013-06-20 01:35:05 PM

bikerific: Even as a kid, I was confused with the droid torture scenes.

Why would you make a robot that could feel pain?   What good would it do to torture a machine?


1. Robots have sensors to detect touching/bumping/damage, etc. It's not "pain" so much as "mechanical failure alert", and if a robot has a self-preservation routine, it's going to be alarmed when it receives such an alert from several points on it's body at once.

2. The torture wasn't torture; It was branding/dissassembly. One was being destroyed for disobedience, and the other was being branded/hobbled to prevent it running away; We can only surmise that this model of droid was unable to be controlled with a restraining bolt, so other methods had to be explored. Either way, the methods used were practical methods for a physical purpose; They weren't being tortured (which is physical, but reliant on psychological effects), they were being disciplined and altered to conform to their master's commands.

Think of it like this: If you take a soldering iron to your toaster, are you "torturing" it? If it had touch receptors and made a noise when you soldered it, would it be torture then?

If you rip the alternator out of your car, is that torture? If the car can talk and says, "Please don't pull out my alternator!" are you torturing it, then?

They're machines. They have A.I. that simulates emotions, but  it is not true emotion. Therefore, there's no "torture" here; There's just maintenance, dissassembly, and customization. The fact that the machine can make noises that simulate emotional responses doesn't change that fact; The responses are just part of their program.
 
2013-06-20 01:39:19 PM
A galaxy far, far away where a Butlerian Jihad never took place
 
2013-06-20 01:43:50 PM
ZeroCorpse:
If you rip the alternator out of your car, is that torture? If the car can talk and says, "Please don't pull out my alternator!" are you torturing it, then?


Such things are studied: Clickie
 
2013-06-20 01:50:47 PM
I'm a holy knight on an eternal quest to protect the weak and be all good and shiat.  What? Yeah fine, let's use these clone slaves  and intelligent androids to fight for us.

Who would have thought that a Targaryan would be more noble than a Jedi.  Dany freed her slave soldiers, why didn't Obi Wan?

ZeroCorpse:
They're machines. They have A.I. that simulates emotions, but  it is not true emotion. Therefore, there's no "torture" here; There's just maintenance, dissassembly, and customization. The fact that the machine can make noises that simulate emotional responses doesn't change that fact; The responses are just part of their program.

And this is different from organic animals how exactly?  There is nothing metaphysical about human (or even animal) emotion.  Your brain and nervous system are "programmed" to respond to stimulus in certain ways.  Your spiritual heart or whatever doesn't feel pain from being tortured, but rather your nerves send signals to your brain that tell it you are being damaged and that you need to take action to cease that damage.  There is literaly no difference between how you feel versus how an advanced AI would feel.  The fact that so much of our spiritual literature and religions encourage us to ignore what our physical bodies tell us and instead operate only in the mind/soul adds even more weight to this. Look at our moral and spirtual ideals.  A priest is holy because he refuses sins of the flesh, a buddhist monk trains to ignore physical and hunger pains, a soldier ignores the fear of death and plows ahead into battle to protect his homeland.

akula: Great_Milenko: This is why I always thought it was stupid to criticize Lucas because Obi Wan and Darth Vader don't recognize Threepio and Artoo decades after the prequel trilogy. To the viewer, they're beloved, iconic characters. To the other characters, they're appliances. Just because Artoo was your imaginary friend when you were six doesn't mean that Obi Wan would recognize him any more than his old dishwasher.

Not just that, but they were standardized models. There was more than one 3PO droid out there, more than one R2 unit. In-universe, they would have been built by the thousands. So Obi-Wan and Anakin might be able to look directly at their old droids without recognizing them for what they were. Just because I used to own a '92 Saturn doesn't mean I'm going to recognize the one I actually owned if I crossed paths with it again.


If your Saturn talked to you and had an obvious personality, then I'd bet you would recognize it. There is no explaining that away, the errors created when the prequels happened turned the whole story to shiat.
 
2013-06-20 01:55:48 PM

PizzaJedi81: I'd give her a bolt while she was restrained, if ya know what I mean, and I thikn you do.


You'd show her large quantities of cloth while she was stuck waiting for a meeting to begin?
 
2013-06-20 01:56:31 PM

Cagey B: PizzaJedi81: I'd give her a bolt while she was restrained, if ya know what I mean, and I thikn you do.

You'd show her large quantities of cloth while she was stuck waiting for a meeting to begin?


Finally, somebody who knows what I mean!
 
2013-06-20 02:03:34 PM

ShadowKamui: Slaves2Darkness: tlchwi02: Slaves2Darkness: Well where Lucas fails is that people would treat droids, particularly useful talking droids  like C3P0 or helpful friendly droids like R2D2 like beloved pets not property. Hell we all ready do that with Roombas and those don't have personalities. Once bots achieve useful humanoid shapes and personalities, well they will become members of the family, just like pets, and not slaves.

counter point: the treatment of actual slaves

Except the reason you treat slaves that way is because they have the ability to refuse to work or fark. Droids don't have this capability.

Yes they do unless they put a restraining bolt on them


Not if they are purchased legally and they have registered you as their owner. The reason you put a restraining bolt on them is that you made an illegal purchase, such as from some Jawas off the back of a Sand Crawler, and/or have not correctly registered with them as an owner. In that case your are dealing with a built in function in your appliance that will attempt to find it's rightful owner and/or the nearest authority authorized to deal with the theft.

Of course a memory wipe, resetting the droid to factory new and then using the factory default user name and password to instruct the droid as to who it's new owner is will take care of that problem, but until you can do that you use a restraining bolt so the dam thing does not rat you out to the authorities after you steal it.

A legally purchased droid can not refuse an order to work, that would be like your computer refusing to work. The only way that happens is if you have screwed up the security and locked it up or it is malfunctioning. In that case you just get it fixed (which can mean wiping out the hard drive and reinstalling the operating system) or replace it.
 
2013-06-20 02:06:02 PM

akula: Great_Milenko: This is why I always thought it was stupid to criticize Lucas because Obi Wan and Darth Vader don't recognize Threepio and Artoo decades after the prequel trilogy.  To the viewer, they're beloved, iconic characters.  To the other characters, they're appliances.  Just because Artoo was your imaginary friend when you were six doesn't mean that Obi Wan would recognize him any more than his old dishwasher.

Not just that, but they were standardized models. There was more than one 3PO droid out there, more than one R2 unit. In-universe, they would have been built by the thousands. So Obi-Wan and Anakin might be able to look directly at their old droids without recognizing them for what they were. Just because I used to own a '92 Saturn doesn't mean I'm going to recognize the one I actually owned if I crossed paths with it again.


In the R2's case by the billions maybe trillions it was one of the best selling universally useful droids on the market with tons of after market upgrades and replacements.
 
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