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(Twitter)   In response to MS retracting XBone DRM, creator of XBone exclusive titles joins MS in destroying the XBone by promising to turn all game components into DLC   (twitter.com) divider line 229
    More: Followup, DRM, classical elements  
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5777 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Jun 2013 at 7:45 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-20 08:41:18 PM  
This is cool because i bought ANOTHER copy of the Last of Us for my tight arsed friend just so he can experience it. Great games never lose money.
 
2013-06-20 09:04:25 PM  

Carth: Also worth noting Portal/2 were under $20 new...


Portal was also a "B-side" title threw into The Orange Box to sweeten the deal, considering at least half its content (HL2 and E1) was repackaged. Sparing that, it would have remained critically lauded but probably wouldn't have nearly as wide an audience and the popularity it enjoyed. It wasn't even released as a standalone product until almost a year after its initial retail release.
 
2013-06-20 10:03:09 PM  

red5ish: Someothermonkey: it all begins with microsoft failing to properly clarify what they were doing

My impression is that Microsoft is intentionally misleading their potential customers about many aspects of the Xbone. Many of the changes and "features" are intended to increase profits for Microsoft and are of little or no benefit to the customer. I think that for Microsoft, being a game company is straying a long way from their core competencies. They seem to feel they can and should monetized every aspect of the gaming experience. They also don't seem to understand - and this may be a part of their corporate culture - that they have serious (and possibly superior) competition for their customer base. Without backwards compatibility their console looks to be a technically inferior and pricier product than the PS4, and Microsoft's customer base has no persuasive reason to buy an Xbone over a PS4.


it was a big question going in with the xbox 1 (not the xbone) whether a company built around a defacto monopoly could compete in a space that basically resets progress every 5 years regardless of how much money you throw at it

the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole
 
2013-06-20 10:41:23 PM  

AdamK: the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole


You mean the company that is at the top of the Amazon's video game best seller's list?
 
2013-06-21 12:31:47 AM  

JohnnyC: AdamK: the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole

You mean the company that is at the top of the Amazon's video game best seller's list?


Meanwhile the PS4 has 6 separate bundles in the top 100.  Including spots 3,4,5 and 10.
 
2013-06-21 12:36:08 AM  
Oh, and the PS4 is still several spots above the XBox One in the "Best sellers of 2013" list.  I would even guess that the slip from 1 to 3 in the current best seller list might be because that PS4 edition is sold out on Amazon right now.
 
2013-06-21 06:41:52 AM  

JohnnyC: AdamK: the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole

You mean the company that is at the top of the Amazon's video game best seller's list?


PS4 is outselling XBO 2:1 If you have an update since they changed their DRM policy I'd like to see it.
 
2013-06-21 07:54:41 AM  

Carth: JohnnyC: AdamK: the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole

You mean the company that is at the top of the Amazon's video game best seller's list?

PS4 is outselling XBO 2:1 If you have an update since they changed their DRM policy I'd like to see it.


amazon pre-orders are also no-money-down

anywhere that requires money-down the PS4 is ahead
 
2013-06-21 08:10:48 AM  

AdamK: Carth: JohnnyC: AdamK: the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole

You mean the company that is at the top of the Amazon's video game best seller's list?

PS4 is outselling XBO 2:1 If you have an update since they changed their DRM policy I'd like to see it.

amazon pre-orders are also no-money-down

anywhere that requires money-down the PS4 is ahead


The link includes reports from Gamespot. Other than those two no other store has reported preorders have they?
 
2013-06-21 08:35:47 AM  
If anyone thinks Microsoft was implementing all those features in the name of innovation, and not to milk players dry, then I have a giant wall in China I can sell them.
 
2013-06-21 08:51:13 AM  

FuryOfFirestorm: If anyone thinks Microsoft was implementing all those features in the name of innovation, and not to milk players dry, then I have a giant wall in China I can sell them.


Microsoft implemented the features to entice publishers into exclusive games.  Exclusives sell consoles, and people buy GAMES, not consoles.
 
2013-06-21 09:13:43 AM  

FuryOfFirestorm: If anyone thinks Microsoft was implementing all those features in the name of innovation, and not to milk players dry, then I have a giant wall in China I can sell them.


Its innovation at work on other platforms.   There are alot of things you can do by way of digital license that would give microsoft and publishers more of the take while also making up for the disadvantage of having to stay on the internet. It can be used to save players money by cutting out middlemen.
Saving players space and the annoyance of scratched orlost diskswould be a selling point VS the likes of Sony (who has no idea what a game ecosystem is anyway). Sales and package deals can still happen while the need for DLC, to secure profits, is reduced.

The point being made here is that staying on physical media doesn't prevent bad practices from happening.   It only encourages it, as publishers continue to fight resellers on their own with less technical assistance from console makers.
So they'll sell you a demo and make you buy the rest of the game online, one chapter at a time.


/But you have a physical disk (which is no good without a day one patch) to feel empowered.
 
2013-06-21 09:19:04 AM  

Lexx: FuryOfFirestorm: If anyone thinks Microsoft was implementing all those features in the name of innovation, and not to milk players dry, then I have a giant wall in China I can sell them.

Microsoft implemented the features to entice publishers into exclusive games.  Exclusives sell consoles, and people buy GAMES, not consoles.


True but the number of consoles sold determines which ones get games. If PS4 has double the install base not many publishers are going to make xbox exclusives unless Microsoft throws tons of money at them. Lucky for MS they have the money to spend.
 
2013-06-21 09:34:55 AM  

Lexx: Microsoft implemented the features to entice publishers into exclusive games.  Exclusives sell consoles, and people buy GAMES, not consoles.


People have to buy a console to play those games, and not many people want to buy a console that treats them like teenager being punished for breaking curfew.
 
2013-06-21 10:00:55 AM  

Carth: Lexx: FuryOfFirestorm: If anyone thinks Microsoft was implementing all those features in the name of innovation, and not to milk players dry, then I have a giant wall in China I can sell them.

Microsoft implemented the features to entice publishers into exclusive games.  Exclusives sell consoles, and people buy GAMES, not consoles.

True but the number of consoles sold determines which ones get games. If PS4 has double the install base not many publishers are going to make xbox exclusives unless Microsoft throws tons of money at them. Lucky for MS they have the money to spend.


And the number of exclusives go a long way to determining which consoles get purchased.  I have NO interest in Nintendo hardware, but Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros, etc, will always occupy a soft spot in my heart, so I buy the console in order to play the game.

FuryOfFirestorm: Lexx: Microsoft implemented the features to entice publishers into exclusive games.  Exclusives sell consoles, and people buy GAMES, not consoles.

People have to buy a console to play those games, and not many people want to buy a console that treats them like teenager being punished for breaking curfew.


People will buy the hardware necessary to play the game, though if the public consciousness is focused on negatives about the console itself, they won't buy the console because they're unaware of the games.
 
2013-06-21 10:10:40 AM  

Carth: True but the number of consoles sold determines which ones get games. If PS4 has double the install base not many publishers are going to make xbox exclusives unless Microsoft throws tons of money at them. Lucky for MS they have the money to spend.


I would agree with a caveat: the top two console makers, regardless of who they are, will get more than likely get exclusives.  As it stands right now, the top "Next Gen" console is the Wii U.  That will presumably change this holiday season.  The question is will Microsoft outsell the Wii U?  Probably, though it is far from certain. (And if so, when?)  PS4 as of right now is in a better position, but I Sony seems to continually cut their own throat, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Microsoft saw the writing on the wall and they changed direction.  Is it too little to late?  Maybe, but aside from the "hardcore" console gaming crowd, it is probably sufficient.  The truth of the matter is the ultra-hardcore gaming crowd may very well get all the consoles anyway.  So it comes down to the "partisans" which I would argue are not the majority.  The unwashed masses are what need to be watched.  Especially parents of teens.  All this drama now, if it fades by release (which I bet it will), won't matter to them.
 
2013-06-21 10:43:58 AM  

Ajanu: "When the system is off, it's only listening for the single voice command -- "Xbox On," and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you'll need to turn it back on for these experiences."

This is the link for the One, no mention of unplugging it. http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy

2 reasons Kinect is bundled I think. The first is because people in the tech industry think we want to talk to our devices and use gestures for everything. Apple, Android, all smart TV makers, PC makers etc, MS is just jumping on the bandwagon. The other is so that anyone who wants to use Kinect in their game design will know that the person buying the One version will have access to it. Remains to be seen how much it will be used, and how good games can be with it, but being an optional extra it would be skipped by many/most people.

To all the people saying they will use paper or tape to cover the camera, you realize it has an IR camera right? So you need something thicker than paper to hide your crack smoking or fornicating from the camera.



If you can unplug it and still have the system work without needing to jump through any hoops, I'd be fine with that.  Is it frustrating that they're forcing it down everyone's throats by bundling it with the system and increasing the cost?  Yes, but I can understand the argument of making the technology ubiquitous and opening doors for developers.

However, if you flat out can't use the system with Kinect unplugged, or have to navigate a series of labyrinthine prompts and settings to do so, that is unacceptable in my mind.  The only reason I can think of to do something like that is because they have planned revenue around targeted advertising applications which rely on that device...and that is farking disturbing.
 
2013-06-21 10:53:23 AM  

Lexx: People will buy the hardware necessary to play the game, though if the public consciousness is focused on negatives about the console itself, they won't buy the console because they're unaware of the games.


So you admit that all this DRM crap was a bad thing then?

Pop quiz time: would you rather pay $500 for a console with some features you like, plus a lot of features you don't like, or would you rather pay $400 for a console that has a lot of features you like?

I know the answer might take a while to figure out, but I'll be generous and grade on a curve.
 
2013-06-21 11:38:07 AM  

FuryOfFirestorm: Lexx: People will buy the hardware necessary to play the game, though if the public consciousness is focused on negatives about the console itself, they won't buy the console because they're unaware of the games.

So you admit that all this DRM crap was a bad thing then?

Pop quiz time: would you rather pay $500 for a console with some features you like, plus a lot of features you don't like, or would you rather pay $400 for a console that has a lot of features you like?

I know the answer might take a while to figure out, but I'll be generous and grade on a curve.


I'll buy the system that allows me to play the games I want to.
 
2013-06-21 12:06:53 PM  

Lexx: I'll buy the system that allows me to play the games I want to.


It's totally OK if MS cornholes gamers up the butt without lube, because HALO!11111!1
 
2013-06-21 01:43:09 PM  
Question for the guys on here -

Would you marry a girl who makes you check in with her all the time, always keeps an eye on you, tells you what you can and can't do with your property, and promises awesome sex that only happens once a year but ends up being the same crappy sex as last year (and now she wants to bring a dog into it)?

Or do you rather marry a girl that doesn't do any of that crap?
 
2013-06-21 01:44:44 PM  

guestguy: Ajanu: "When the system is off, it's only listening for the single voice command -- "Xbox On," and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you'll need to turn it back on for these experiences."

This is the link for the One, no mention of unplugging it. http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy

2 reasons Kinect is bundled I think. The first is because people in the tech industry think we want to talk to our devices and use gestures for everything. Apple, Android, all smart TV makers, PC makers etc, MS is just jumping on the bandwagon. The other is so that anyone who wants to use Kinect in their game design will know that the person buying the One version will have access to it. Remains to be seen how much it will be used, and how good games can be with it, but being an optional extra it would be skipped by many/most people.

To all the people saying they will use paper or tape to cover the camera, you realize it has an IR camera right? So you need something thicker than paper to hide your crack smoking or fornicating from the camera.

If you can unplug it and still have the system work without needing to jump through any hoops, I'd be fine with that.  Is it frustrating that they're forcing it down everyone's throats by bundling it with the system and increasing the cost?  Yes, but I can understand the argument of making the technology ubiquitous and opening doors for developers.

However, if you flat out can't use the system with Kinect unplugged, or have to navigate a series of labyrinthine prompts and settings to do so, that is unacceptable in my mind.  The only reason I can think of to do something like that is because they have planned revenue around targeted advertising applications which rely on that device...and that is farking disturbing.


i wonder what happens if you break the kinect, does the xbone not work anymore? or what if you put tape over the lens, if it can't see or hear the player will it still work?
 
2013-06-21 02:24:53 PM  
I bought an xbox because I wanted the simplicity of just popping a disk in and playing a game. No need to mess with settings, which is why I got tired of PC gaming to begin with.

Now, this generation of consoles just seems like a pain in the ass.

I see the value of an all-in-one entertainment box, I just don't want one.

Since I don't have much time for gaming anymore, I think I'll just keep the 360 and play the games I've missed.
 
2013-06-21 03:29:49 PM  

AdamK: i wonder what happens if you break the kinect


Assuming its still connected, nothing more than if you stuck a live gamepad in a box and ignored it.

Microsoft wants publishers to use the kinect because it means incorporating features that will only work on the Xbox (a plus if it makes the games better). The problem is those same publishers are looking for the broadest audience. The little facets that make X1 and P4 different will get lost in the rush to deliver a similar experience across platforms to both sets of customers.

By shoehorning kinect into every living room you broaden the audience, increase the chances of players wanting those features, and make it more profitable for developers to use them.
 
2013-06-21 03:53:09 PM  

AdamK: i wonder what happens if you break the kinect, does the xbone not work anymore? or what if you put tape over the lens, if it can't see or hear the p ...



You shouldn't need to do any of that in my opinion, that's friggin ridiculous.  You should be able to unplug the damn thing; there is no defensible reason to mandate that it's always connected to the system.
 
2013-06-21 03:55:33 PM  

way south: AdamK: i wonder what happens if you break the kinect

Assuming its still connected, nothing more than if you stuck a live gamepad in a box and ignored it.

Microsoft wants publishers to use the kinect because it means incorporating features that will only work on the Xbox (a plus if it makes the games better). The problem is those same publishers are looking for the broadest audience. The little facets that make X1 and P4 different will get lost in the rush to deliver a similar experience across platforms to both sets of customers.

By shoehorning kinect into every living room you broaden the audience, increase the chances of players wanting those features, and make it more profitable for developers to use them.



Have you seen the bolded in a statement from MS somewhere?
 
2013-06-21 05:05:25 PM  

guestguy: way south: AdamK: i wonder what happens if you break the kinect

Assuming its still connected, nothing more than if you stuck a live gamepad in a box and ignored it.

Microsoft wants publishers to use the kinect because it means incorporating features that will only work on the Xbox (a plus if it makes the games better). The problem is those same publishers are looking for the broadest audience. The little facets that make X1 and P4 different will get lost in the rush to deliver a similar experience across platforms to both sets of customers.

By shoehorning kinect into every living room you broaden the audience, increase the chances of players wanting those features, and make it more profitable for developers to use them.

Have you seen the bolded in a statement from MS somewhere?


Wait, really?
You expect it to lock up because it can't hear you talking, or scream "I CAN'T SEE YOUR FACE, NO GAMES TILL I SEE YOUR FACE!!"?
Unless they forwent the physical power button, the only time you'll need to interact with kinect is to say "xbox on".
Since you can't turn it off, you only have to say that once.

/Feel free to be creeped out by a no-longer online camera that's watching you for its own enjoyment.
/Orbuy a PS4 and tap the share button. We need constant updates on your progress inlittle big planet.
 
2013-06-21 05:19:51 PM  

way south: Have you seen the bolded in a statement from MS somewhere?

Wait, really?
You expect it to lock up because it can't hear you talking, or scream "I CAN'T SEE YOUR FACE, NO GAMES TILL I SEE YOUR FACE!!"?
Unless they forwent the physical power button, the only time you'll need to interact with kinect is to say "xbox on".
Since you can't turn it off, you only have to say that once.

/Feel free to be creeped out by a no-longer online camera that's watching you for its own enjoyment.
/Orbuy a PS4 and tap the share button. We need constant updates on your progress inlittle big planet.



I don't know what the hell to expect from it; it could say "Kinect obstructed, please remove obstruction to continue."   Why does it need to be plugged in for the system to work?  Simply for the ability to say "Xbox on"?  That is a farking stupid excuse.  I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation.

There are legitimate privacy concerns surrounding this thing, and being a dismissive twat isn't going to suddenly make them go away.
 
2013-06-21 06:19:05 PM  

guestguy: way south: Have you seen the bolded in a statement from MS somewhere?

Wait, really?
You expect it to lock up because it can't hear you talking, or scream "I CAN'T SEE YOUR FACE, NO GAMES TILL I SEE YOUR FACE!!"?
Unless they forwent the physical power button, the only time you'll need to interact with kinect is to say "xbox on".
Since you can't turn it off, you only have to say that once.

/Feel free to be creeped out by a no-longer online camera that's watching you for its own enjoyment.
/Orbuy a PS4 and tap the share button. We need constant updates on your progress inlittle big planet.

I don't know what the hell to expect from it; it could say "Kinect obstructed, please remove obstruction to continue."   Why does it need to be plugged in for the system to work?  Simply for the ability to say "Xbox on"?  That is a farking stupid excuse.  I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation.

There are legitimate privacy concerns surrounding this thing, and being a dismissive twat isn't going to suddenly make them go away.




Fair enough. But with the first kinect brought these concerns to bear years ago. If people haven't gotten over it by now then I don't think there's anything Microsoft can do to soothe their fears.
You're more likely to be done in by a cell phone camera than an offline kinect.

The reason it's always on (same as the current kinect) is because its part of the control scheme. You wave your hands and the screens flip, minority report style. They want you to do that while changing channels and games. They want it active for game features as well.

...But unless they disabled both glass and the wireless controllers, you could avoid using it.
If disconnected, X1 will just probably just biatch like it does for a disconnected game pad.
 
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