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(Twitter)   In response to MS retracting XBone DRM, creator of XBone exclusive titles joins MS in destroying the XBone by promising to turn all game components into DLC   (twitter.com) divider line 229
    More: Followup, DRM, classical elements  
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5769 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Jun 2013 at 7:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-20 10:53:20 AM

Larry Mahnken: No, you'll buy the game new and there will be a code for the DLC.  $60 buys you the whole game.
If you buy the game used, you'll have to pay to get the DLC.


Really unlikely.   That was the hook for Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2 (you got Shale and Zaeed respectively free for buying new) and it was a pretty good idea.   Between those two games and Mass Effect 3 the policy changed, you'll remember that the lore bomb dropping DLC character in that game was not included in the "base package" version of the game so you can't really consider it a hook to buy new vs used.

So what you are suggesting is the publishers will revert to the earlier policy.
 
2013-06-20 10:53:55 AM

Lexx: AdamK: Tyrone Slothrop: Vaneshi: Mike_LowELL: In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.

In the case of the Xboned he is actually correct.  Which I admit is  minor miracle we should make a note of (under 'a stopped clock' probably).  Microsoft have already said: No publisher = Not on XBox.  It's generally intimated that this means a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft and so on rather than some enterprising indie who is both developer and makes a one man band publishing company.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiment about the mans line of thought though.  He's almost as bonkers as Carmack's "DirectX is awesome" splurge... whilst all of his peers are busy brushing up on OpenGL due to the portability of it.

From what I've read, if you want to sell a downloadable game on the XBone, you have to have two games for sale at retail, which screws over indie devs.

yeah, you can't self-publish on any microsoft console despite the industry going in that direction

That's why I have high hopes in the Ouya, and Steambox.


Well, grab some beers or whatever you like because I got a feeling your hopes are going to be let down with both of those.
 
2013-06-20 10:56:25 AM

Egoy3k: Well this should be a surprise to no one. Thanks a lot internet nerds you farked it up for the rest of us.


lol

Corporate greed and a target market that has absolutely no impulse control farked it up for the rest of us.  If MS and the game publishers got what they wanted you'd still see an initial price point of $60+, charging fees for used games, sports and other games moving to a yearly subscription model, purposely nerfing games to promote DLC, the whole shebang.  For once people actually stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and now they're the bad guys?
 
2013-06-20 11:00:40 AM

taxandspend: Carth: Jim from Saint Paul: The majority of gamers are of the dilluted thought proces that all games cost $60. Especially your CoD gamers. They would bristle at the idea of paying $80.00 for a game up front, yet will buy 4 map packs at $15 a piece while barely flinching.

Call of Duty Black Ops 2 hit $1 billion dollars in 15 days. Faster than Avatar or any other entertainment product in history. Video games are making more money today than ever and the industry as a whole is bigger. AAA game do cost more to make you're absolutely right. They are also earn more than ever before. If you can find any Atari or SNES game that made $1 billion i'd love to hear about it.

In 1993 Street Fighter supposedly made 1.5 billion.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter_II

Also, I'll just leave this fine quote from Miyamoto here:
"We're more worried about piracy and we think used games are a whole other story. In fact, from our perspective you want to create a game that people will want to keep and keep playing for a long time. That's the approach that we always take and that's the best way to avoid used games."

There's a reason why Nintendo games, especially Mario games, have a ridiculously high trade in rate at Gamestop.


Interesting link I didn't know that about SFII. Still it took the game about 2 years to do what COD did in about 2 weeks.

I love Nintendo games I just wish their consoles had half way decent third party support.
 
2013-06-20 11:01:03 AM

Carth: terminalx: Dr Dreidel: Nefarious: FarkGrudge: //Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway

You mean this?  You can turn the Kinect sensor off unless you are playing a game that requires it.  I'm sure the sufficiently paranoid will say it could be on even when it's off.  Microsoft just decided they wanted to sell you one this generation.

If it's listening for "Xbox on", it's listening. Any bets on how long it takes to hack? I'll set the over-under at 5min for someone to get a feed from a "powered down" console.

// $10 to Child's Play on the under; any takers?


If you're that paranoid you could unplug it... including the Kinect with Xbox gives developers the incentive to utilize instead of it being just an accessory.

Can you actually unplug it and play games? Last I heard it needed to be plugged in and "functional" for the system to work .


Nope, last I heard it had to be plugged in to play games. Not sure about TV or movies. But it's just one more thing in the way of your game experience. At least a constant internet connection is off the table, but what if your Kinect breaks? Gotta spend another $80-100 on a peripheral you don't ever use just to play the games? No thanks...
 
2013-06-20 11:05:23 AM
Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I am looking to evaluate the features of each console before deciding if and which one I will purchase. I see Xbox One's ability to cloud-compute game elements as a tremendous advantage in terms of gaming experiences that the platform can deliver. It opens the door for seemingly unlimited processing power. Coupled with the interactive TV piece (whatever they're calling it), the ability to use voice to do just about anything, and the multi-tasking features, it seems like for how I use my console, these are clear advantages over my understanding of PS4's offerings.

Am I missing something in terms of console features and abilities?

For Kinect, I don't really care for it's video use for games, but from what I've read, privacy and enabling of Kinect sensor will be configurable. It will always listen I think? Isn't that good for when I want to use my console? They're not giving Kinect data to the NSA. These "big brother" boogeyman arguments about Kinect are kind of worrisome just in terms of how little people seem to understand about privacy and data.
 
2013-06-20 11:05:56 AM

FarkGrudge: narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!

And you know what, even IF the "razorblade" model became more prevalent, that'd still be better than the original proposal--because at least you own "something" you can share with your friends or siblings.  More often than not, anyone who's sharing disks probably isn't interested in the "true ending" or the competitive multiplayer component.  In either model, the publisher is still going to try and extort you (and all used-gamers) the most they possibly can--if you think they weren't going to offer DLC or "expansions" under the original model, you're delusional.

Bottom-line:  first-sale doctrine should still apply, especially to "walled-garden" environments like a console--since the investment to the console is fairly steep to enough people (at least enough where you won't likely buy both consoles), it's probably the best way to keep costs competitive, as they are also competing against existing prior-art (ie, used-games).

/If they try to take DLC to the extreme again where you can basically only share a demo version of the game, then the outrage will flood in again (just like it did now)
//Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway


Kinect can be turned off. "
You can turn the Kinect sensor OFF by going to System Settings > Kinect Settings and choosing to turn the sensor OFF. The Kinect sensor hardware does not have a physical OFF switch. Alternatively you can always unplug the Kinect sensor from the console when it's not in use. When using the Kinect Settings to turn the sensor OFF, all processors on the device that are used to stream audio, video, or depth data to the console are in fact turned OFF."  http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollection 2">http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollec tion 2The level of misinformation is insane right now, I don't see how anyone can claim PS4 won, when those people don't have a working system and are basing their opinion on outdated/wrong information.

DLC is not going anywhere, it will only get worse, especially as more games become online only. In some ways it is the price you pay for wanting a game now, not 6 months from now, but generally its a cash grab. Some DLC is more like an expansion (GTA IV, Fallout, etc) so I can't say it's all bad. I do hate the constant release of cars for money from Turn 10 though, and buying outfits and guns is stupid imo.
 
2013-06-20 11:08:02 AM

quiotu: Nope, last I heard it had to be plugged in to play games. Not sure about TV or movies. But it's just one more thing in the way of your game experience. At least a constant internet connection is off the table, but what if your Kinect breaks? Gotta spend another $80-100 on a peripheral you don't ever use just to play the games? No thanks...


Wait - they're making Kinect mandatory, but it's not built into the console? It's still a separate piece of equipment to buy?

GFY, Microsoft. No, wait - shove this "under-$200" Surface (with its $130 keyboard) up your ass, push it up there real good with a broom-handle made of recycled Windows ME CDs, mount the whole setup on a piston attached to your shoes, and walk back to Redmond. So you can keep farking yourself throughout the whole journey.

// I'm in DC, so that's a long walk
 
2013-06-20 11:10:13 AM

AmazinTim: Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I am looking to evaluate the features of each console before deciding if and which one I will purchase. I see Xbox One's ability to cloud-compute game elements as a tremendous advantage in terms of gaming experiences that the platform can deliver. It opens the door for seemingly unlimited processing power. Coupled with the interactive TV piece (whatever they're calling it), the ability to use voice to do just about anything, and the multi-tasking features, it seems like for how I use my console, these are clear advantages over my understanding of PS4's offerings.

Am I missing something in terms of console features and abilities?

For Kinect, I don't really care for it's video use for games, but from what I've read, privacy and enabling of Kinect sensor will be configurable. It will always listen I think? Isn't that good for when I want to use my console? They're not giving Kinect data to the NSA. These "big brother" boogeyman arguments about Kinect are kind of worrisome just in terms of how little people seem to understand about privacy and data.


PS4 has the same cloud computing power as the XBO. In fact since sony runs gaikai  they have more experience doing it. Unfortunately, because of latency cloud computing for games can only be used for so many things, also since developers have to plan around not having that computing power they make games assuming it isn't there.

Voice command in games will be pretty useless for anything with a mutiplayer component since unless you enjoy hearing 16 other people saying "xbox change guns" every three seconds. Voice control of your tv is slower than using a remote which is why it never caught on before now.
 
2013-06-20 11:11:00 AM
Dawnguard was decent.

Dragonborn was awesome.

DLC can be done well.
 
2013-06-20 11:11:16 AM

Dr Dreidel: quiotu: Nope, last I heard it had to be plugged in to play games. Not sure about TV or movies. But it's just one more thing in the way of your game experience. At least a constant internet connection is off the table, but what if your Kinect breaks? Gotta spend another $80-100 on a peripheral you don't ever use just to play the games? No thanks...

Wait - they're making Kinect mandatory, but it's not built into the console? It's still a separate piece of equipment to buy?

GFY, Microsoft. No, wait - shove this "under-$200" Surface (with its $130 keyboard) up your ass, push it up there real good with a broom-handle made of recycled Windows ME CDs, mount the whole setup on a piston attached to your shoes, and walk back to Redmond. So you can keep farking yourself throughout the whole journey.

// I'm in DC, so that's a long walk


It comes with the console but it isn't built into it. Since it is required for the system to work presumably if the Kinect breaks (cat knocks it over or whatever) you'd need to replace it (buy a new one) before you could play games again.
 
2013-06-20 11:14:14 AM

Carth: PS4 has the same cloud computing power as the XBO. In fact since sony runs gaikai  they have more experience doing it. Unfortunately, because of latency cloud computing for games can only be used for so many things, also since developers have to plan around not having that computing power they make games assuming it isn't there.


Ah, I thought Gaiku was for OnLive-style full game streaming so you could play back-catalog games or sample games before you buy them (another cool feature). I didn't know it was being leveraged the same way MS is positioning how developers can "outsource" certain game elements to the cloud. Did they mention that in their presser?
 
2013-06-20 11:15:12 AM

Carth: It comes with the console but it isn't built into it. Since it is required for the system to work presumably if the Kinect breaks (cat knocks it over or whatever) you'd need to replace it (buy a new one) before you could play games again.


Ah.

Well, then they don't have to shove the keyboard up there for the walk. The rest, though - get on that, Ballmer.

// so it's basically a $100 controller I'll never use, but MUST replace if it breaks?
 
2013-06-20 11:15:35 AM

Ajanu: Kinect can be turned off. "
You can turn the Kinect sensor OFF by going to System Settings > Kinect Settings and choosing to turn the sensor OFF. The Kinect sensor hardware does not have a physical OFF switch. Alternatively you can always unplug the Kinect sensor from the console when it's not in use. When using the Kinect Settings to turn the sensor OFF, all processors on the device that are used to stream audio, video, or depth data to the console are in fact turned OFF."  http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollection 2">http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollec tion 2The level of misinformation is insane right now, I don't see how anyone can claim PS4 won, when those people don't have a working system and are basing their opinion on outdated/wrong information.


Why do I HAVE to have a kinect though? Why do I have to pay for hardware that I have zero interest in ever using?
 
2013-06-20 11:16:33 AM

Rev.K: Dawnguard was decent.

Dragonborn was awesome.

DLC can be done well.


Dawnguard was pretty weak for a DLC. They added a couple cool locations and features, but overall it seemed more of the same.

Dragonborn was badass and exactly what a DLC should be. A new world open for exploration.

My favorite will always be Old World Blues for New Vegas. That felt like a standalone game in itself (humor, baddies, everything) and the perks/items were awesome. Add in the fact that you got a fully functional house you could teleport to at any time, and it was my favorite.

Red Dead's Undead Nightmare also deserves mention, although you could consider it more of an expansion than just DLC.
 
2013-06-20 11:17:12 AM

AmazinTim: Carth: PS4 has the same cloud computing power as the XBO. In fact since sony runs gaikai  they have more experience doing it. Unfortunately, because of latency cloud computing for games can only be used for so many things, also since developers have to plan around not having that computing power they make games assuming it isn't there.

Ah, I thought Gaiku was for OnLive-style full game streaming so you could play back-catalog games or sample games before you buy them (another cool feature). I didn't know it was being leveraged the same way MS is positioning how developers can "outsource" certain game elements to the cloud. Did they mention that in their presser?


Sony mentioned they will have cloud computing online by 2014, post conference they said "early 2014". Both companies will do streaming for Backwards compatibility and have the option for developers to do things like lighting in game if they want. Since the PS4 is significantly more powerful than the XBO and was designed around gaming not as an entertainment console it seems to be the better choice if you're looking for a dedicated gaming system where as XBO would be a more all in one box.
 
2013-06-20 11:18:01 AM
Dr Dreidel:

// so it's basically a $100 controller I'll never use, but MUST replace if it breaks?

Yup. that is much clearer than what I said.
 
2013-06-20 11:18:53 AM

PerilousApricot: Jim from Saint Paul: PerilousApricot: HotWingConspiracy: digistil: HotWingConspiracy: Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony said publishers will have the same DRM abilities as they have with the PS3.

Not sure, but they already have the freedom to chisel you. It's like with ME3, you cannot access the online portion unless you pay EA, and you can't "complete" (you can finish, but not get the good ending) unless you do the multiplayer stuff. So if you get a used copy, EA is getting that cash if you're interested in completing the game.

Joke's on you, there is no good ending to ME3

His defintion of "good" was more then likely "coherent".

And you may not like the 4 choices (Yes there are 4), it at least explains what all the other characters are doing and why.

Are we talking about the original ending?


You know, i re-read that and I was 100% wrong. I thought they were mentioing needing the "directors cut" ending.

THey were not. My bad.

They were suggesting that you HAD to do the MP stuff to get your galactic readiness and such to a point where you could get the "best" ending.

They are incorrect as I got the best ending without touching MP once. It's an *option* not a requirement. Do all the little side missions and you will be just fine.
 
2013-06-20 11:20:19 AM

lousyskater: Ajanu: Kinect can be turned off. "
You can turn the Kinect sensor OFF by going to System Settings > Kinect Settings and choosing to turn the sensor OFF. The Kinect sensor hardware does not have a physical OFF switch. Alternatively you can always unplug the Kinect sensor from the console when it's not in use. When using the Kinect Settings to turn the sensor OFF, all processors on the device that are used to stream audio, video, or depth data to the console are in fact turned OFF."  http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollection 2">http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollec tion 2The level of misinformation is insane right now, I don't see how anyone can claim PS4 won, when those people don't have a working system and are basing their opinion on outdated/wrong information.

Why do I HAVE to have a kinect though? Why do I have to pay for hardware that I have zero interest in ever using?


I thought someone at MS stated that Kinect would have to be on for XBOne since there isn't a big Xbox button on the controller, so the only way to really power up the XBOne was to use voice command thru Kinect.
 
2013-06-20 11:21:58 AM
If the industry is doomed without invasive, draconian DRM then, well, maybe the industry <b>should</b> be doomed.
 
2013-06-20 11:26:06 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: They were suggesting that you HAD to do the MP stuff to get your galactic readiness and such to a point where you could get the "best" ending.

They are incorrect as I got the best ending without touching MP once. It's an *option* not a requirement. Do all the little side missions and you will be just fine.


To be fair, the ability to beat the game on the best ending without touching MP only came out through a patch. Originally the Galactic readiness rating for the best ending was set at (IIRC) 4000. Yet the most war assets that were available were 7500, and not playing MP cut that in half to 3750. A patch they issued with the Extended Cut lowered it to around 3100 so it could be done without touching MP.
 
2013-06-20 11:30:37 AM

scottydoesntknow: Jim from Saint Paul: They were suggesting that you HAD to do the MP stuff to get your galactic readiness and such to a point where you could get the "best" ending.

They are incorrect as I got the best ending without touching MP once. It's an *option* not a requirement. Do all the little side missions and you will be just fine.

To be fair, the ability to beat the game on the best ending without touching MP only came out through a patch. Originally the Galactic readiness rating for the best ending was set at (IIRC) 4000. Yet the most war assets that were available were 7500, and not playing MP cut that in half to 3750. A patch they issued with the Extended Cut lowered it to around 3100 so it could be done without touching MP.


If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".
 
2013-06-20 11:37:54 AM

Carth: Sony mentioned they will have cloud computing online by 2014, post conference they said "early 2014". Both companies will do streaming for Backwards compatibility and have the option for developers to do things like lighting in game if they want. Since the PS4 is significantly more powerful than the XBO and was designed around gaming not as an entertainment console it seems to be the better choice if you're looking for a dedicated gaming system where as XBO would be a more all in one box.


All in one entertainment box works for me I think. I don't have the time to dedicate to gaming 20+ hours a week anymore and the TV functionality/voice commands seem like a nice step forward. I have to take the pulse of my friends to see what they are thinking, since we are scattered across the country and get on once or twice a week to game together, it's important we are on the same system.

I don't have time to join clans or make  lot of e-friends, so my priority 1st is being able to game with my IRL friends across the country. It will probably be XBO at the moment since Live has historically been a better multiplayer experience and we play a lot of Minecraft there, but we haven't really seen PS4's interface or heard that much about how that will work I don't think.

The only really stinker about Microsoft for me is that we they don't Naughty Dog games which are supposed to be great.
 
2013-06-20 11:38:33 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".


Then I'm not really sure how you did it. I did everything possible and still had to play a few matches of MP to get my readiness up.
 
2013-06-20 11:42:12 AM

AdamK: RedPhoenix122: TheOriginalEd: Here's a thought bleszinski. how about you NOT treat your consumers like criminals?

Probably getting business advice from the MPAA.

the video game industry for awhile really wanted to ape everything the movie industry did/is doing

AAA game development by its very nature is doomed tho, and was never sustainable like the movie model is

cliffyb is in la-la-land over used games thinking "if only video games were like movies, then there'd be secondary or third waves of income instead of needing to recoup costs all at once in the first month!" well that's the issue - those second or third waves of sales only come at deep discounts, and furthermore said deep discounts are coming not just later but very quickly too - in the end the value of AAA games is dropping like a rock among consumers and no amount of banning used games will change that

be happy there's growth in gaming even if it's in cheaper games


I see the lack of controls over first-wave sales as a problem with the video game industry as well, but I think controls on the used market will help to alleviate the issue.

Movies see most of their profits during their theatre runs.  When hype is high, people will spend money to experience the movie in a format that's not tradeable (they can try to record and trade the experience, but the FBI doesn't look too kindly on cam rips).  Every theatre customer equals income for the studios.  DVD sales are just icing on the cake months after the hype has died down (I just did a little research and The Hobbit earned $300 mil in box office revenue but only an estimated $30 mil in DVD sales).

With games under the current model however, the only guaranteed income that a publisher can bank on is pre-orders and midnight releases.  If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.  This is why we're seeing an increase in pre-order bonuses and multiplayer tacked onto games where it doesn't make sense, to encourage people to pre-order and hold on to their games after finishing the single player experience.

I honestly think that before the next gen is finished we'll see publishers pushing a 'theatrical release' type system for physical copies.  If you want to play a game in the first, say 14 days after release, you'll need to buy a new copy.  A used disc will just play a demo of the first level or something until the window has elapsed.  It seems to be the only way for publishers to actually capture the income from the initial hype without funneling that money into Gamestop's coffers.
 
2013-06-20 11:43:14 AM

scottydoesntknow: Jim from Saint Paul: If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".

Then I'm not really sure how you did it. I did everything possible and still had to play a few matches of MP to get my readiness up.


I'm just that awesome apparently!
 
2013-06-20 11:47:54 AM

King Something: Tyrone Slothrop: Vaneshi: Mike_LowELL: In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.

In the case of the Xboned he is actually correct.  Which I admit is  minor miracle we should make a note of (under 'a stopped clock' probably).  Microsoft have already said: No publisher = Not on XBox.  It's generally intimated that this means a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft and so on rather than some enterprising indie who is both developer and makes a one man band publishing company.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiment about the mans line of thought though.  He's almost as bonkers as Carmack's "DirectX is awesome" splurge... whilst all of his peers are busy brushing up on OpenGL due to the portability of it.

From what I've read, if you want to sell a downloadable game on the XBone, you have to have two games for sale at retail, which screws over indie devs.

I guess this means that the market for vertical-scrolling magical girl-themed hat simulators will not be tapped by the Xbone.


State of Decay, the Fastest Selling game on XBLA, is from a company with 0 games at retail.

(As an aside, XB0x 360 owners, this IS the zombie apocalypse game you want. Coming 'Soon' to Steam)
 
2013-06-20 11:48:31 AM

taxandspend: Yes, that is only the 360 version, my bad.

PsyLord: I thought someone at MS stated that Kinect would have to be on for XBOne since there isn't a big Xbox button on the controller, so the only way to really power up the XBOne was to use voice command thru Kinect.


"When the system is off, it's only listening for the single voice command -- "Xbox On," and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you'll need to turn it back on for these experiences."

This is the link for the One, no mention of unplugging it. http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy

2 reasons Kinect is bundled I think. The first is because people in the tech industry think we want to talk to our devices and use gestures for everything. Apple, Android, all smart TV makers, PC makers etc, MS is just jumping on the bandwagon. The other is so that anyone who wants to use Kinect in their game design will know that the person buying the One version will have access to it. Remains to be seen how much it will be used, and how good games can be with it, but being an optional extra it would be skipped by many/most people.

To all the people saying they will use paper or tape to cover the camera, you realize it has an IR camera right? So you need something thicker than paper to hide your crack smoking or fornicating from the camera.
 
2013-06-20 11:49:11 AM

Carth: AmazinTim: Carth: PS4 has the same cloud computing power as the XBO. In fact since sony runs gaikai  they have more experience doing it. Unfortunately, because of latency cloud computing for games can only be used for so many things, also since developers have to plan around not having that computing power they make games assuming it isn't there.

Ah, I thought Gaiku was for OnLive-style full game streaming so you could play back-catalog games or sample games before you buy them (another cool feature). I didn't know it was being leveraged the same way MS is positioning how developers can "outsource" certain game elements to the cloud. Did they mention that in their presser?

Sony mentioned they will have cloud computing online by 2014, post conference they said "early 2014". Both companies will do streaming for Backwards compatibility and have the option for developers to do things like lighting in game if they want. Since the PS4 is significantly more powerful than the XBO and was designed around gaming not as an entertainment console it seems to be the better choice if you're looking for a dedicated gaming system where as XBO would be a more all in one box.


Truthfully, I haven't seen anything from Microsoft talking about backwards compatibility through streaming.  Gaikai was announced a while ago, but I don't remember Microsoft ever announcing anything for backwards compatibility, only that the Xbox One wouldn't have it.  I'd love a citation if they've mentioned it somewhere.

It'd even the playing field a bit if OnLive was being used on the Xbox One, but I never heard anything about it so far.
 
2013-06-20 11:53:31 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: scottydoesntknow: Jim from Saint Paul: They were suggesting that you HAD to do the MP stuff to get your galactic readiness and such to a point where you could get the "best" ending.

They are incorrect as I got the best ending without touching MP once. It's an *option* not a requirement. Do all the little side missions and you will be just fine.

To be fair, the ability to beat the game on the best ending without touching MP only came out through a patch. Originally the Galactic readiness rating for the best ending was set at (IIRC) 4000. Yet the most war assets that were available were 7500, and not playing MP cut that in half to 3750. A patch they issued with the Extended Cut lowered it to around 3100 so it could be done without touching MP.

If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".


Your statement cannot be accurate, unless you altered your save file.

The "best ending" includes a teaser implying that Shepard survived the "Destruction" ending. The teaser is played only if a certain Effective Military Strength (4000) was attained. Attaining that Effective Military Strength was impossible -- as confirmed by examination of game data -- without using multiplayer to either increase readiness above 50% or to increase the base military strength through importation of level 20 multiplayer characters. Without multiplayer, the required strength was attainable only by using a save editor to alter asset values.

Bioware had claimed that absolutely all single player content would be available without requiring multiplayer bonuses. Gamers who examined game data proved their claim to be a lie. As such, the "Extended Cut" release reduced the required Effective Military Strength to a value attainable even with only 50% readiness.
 
2013-06-20 11:57:16 AM

quiotu: Carth: AmazinTim: Carth: PS4 has the same cloud computing power as the XBO. In fact since sony runs gaikai  they have more experience doing it. Unfortunately, because of latency cloud computing for games can only be used for so many things, also since developers have to plan around not having that computing power they make games assuming it isn't there.

Ah, I thought Gaiku was for OnLive-style full game streaming so you could play back-catalog games or sample games before you buy them (another cool feature). I didn't know it was being leveraged the same way MS is positioning how developers can "outsource" certain game elements to the cloud. Did they mention that in their presser?

Sony mentioned they will have cloud computing online by 2014, post conference they said "early 2014". Both companies will do streaming for Backwards compatibility and have the option for developers to do things like lighting in game if they want. Since the PS4 is significantly more powerful than the XBO and was designed around gaming not as an entertainment console it seems to be the better choice if you're looking for a dedicated gaming system where as XBO would be a more all in one box.

Truthfully, I haven't seen anything from Microsoft talking about backwards compatibility through streaming.  Gaikai was announced a while ago, but I don't remember Microsoft ever announcing anything for backwards compatibility, only that the Xbox One wouldn't have it.  I'd love a citation if they've mentioned it somewhere.

It'd even the playing field a bit if OnLive was being used on the Xbox One, but I never heard anything about it so far.


I don't think MS has said they are going to do streaming backwards compatibilty yet. People are speculating that Hyper-V would be used. Sony has come out and said they'll do streaming backwards compatibility for certain titles in 2014.
 
2013-06-20 11:57:18 AM
people biatching about kinect have never enjoyed the pure awesome of simply yelling at your tv to pause something without having to fire a controller back up.
i find myself doing the same at my PC when im watching some torrented video.
xbox pause! shiat... i have to actually click something.
xbox play!  shiat... i have to actually click something.
ive been a gamer since atari age and the voice commands on kinect are convenient as hell when getting up to make another drink in the kitchen while watching something on any of the video streaming services.  also glad they rescinded their DRM bullshiat.
still gonna get both.
also, dance games and fruit ninja on kinect are insanely fun in party settings.
 
2013-06-20 11:58:59 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: scottydoesntknow: Jim from Saint Paul: If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".

Then I'm not really sure how you did it. I did everything possible and still had to play a few matches of MP to get my readiness up.

I'm just that awesome apparently!


Did you play the ios/android game? That got you enough points for the best ending without multiplayer before the patch.
 
2013-06-20 12:00:13 PM

Ajanu: So you need something thicker than paper to hide your crack smoking or fornicating from the camera.


I think you misunderstand - those are the things we want the camera to see. It's those times when we set up the living room to reenact To Wong Foo... with the dog & cat that we may want to keep private.

But none of that explains why devs want to spend that much more time (and money) to develop Kinect stuff for their games when there are other formats for which that will be useless. PC, for example - or PS4. Any dev who wants to make a multiplatform game (which I guess is going to be a smaller and smaller number now?) is stuck with that.

So what I think will happen is what (I think) I've been seeing thus far - a raft of Kinect-only games (that is, games that are purpose-built - they have a niche market for Just Dance and Fitness whatevers, but how is Wii doing on that, hmm?), some features that are nods to the Kinect (like last year's Madden from what I gather) without affecting gameplay otherwise, and most games which will ignore the capability entirely.

For what had the potential to be a game-changer (no pun intended, but I kind of like how that works), MS has totally screwed up its release by making Kinect more about revenue-generation schemes in this release than about use in gameplay.

// and if we keep pushing, I foresee MS making Kinect tethering the hill they die on
// for some stupid reason (probably TV/movie rental charges)
 
2013-06-20 12:01:44 PM

Dimensio: Jim from Saint Paul: scottydoesntknow: Jim from Saint Paul: They were suggesting that you HAD to do the MP stuff to get your galactic readiness and such to a point where you could get the "best" ending.

They are incorrect as I got the best ending without touching MP once. It's an *option* not a requirement. Do all the little side missions and you will be just fine.

To be fair, the ability to beat the game on the best ending without touching MP only came out through a patch. Originally the Galactic readiness rating for the best ending was set at (IIRC) 4000. Yet the most war assets that were available were 7500, and not playing MP cut that in half to 3750. A patch they issued with the Extended Cut lowered it to around 3100 so it could be done without touching MP.

If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".

Your statement cannot be accurate, unless you altered your save file.

The "best ending" includes a teaser implying that Shepard survived the "Destruction" ending. The teaser is played only if a certain Effective Military Strength (4000) was attained. Attaining that Effective Military Strength was impossible -- as confirmed by examination of game data -- without using multiplayer to either increase readiness above 50% or to increase the base military strength through importation of level 20 multiplayer characters. Without multiplayer, the required strength was attainable only by using a save editor to alter asset values.

Bioware had claimed that absolutely all single player content would be available without requiring multiplayer bonuses. Gamers who examined game data proved their claim to be a lie. As such, the "Extended Cut" release reduced the required Effective Military Strength to a value attainable even with only 50% readiness.


Dude, I swear I beat the game before the extended cut as I went to watch Fark be angrey about it. I swear I didn't use MP. Maybe some other patch BEFORE the EC was released did it, as I didn;t have the game for about 2 weeks after the release. It just couldn;t have been the EC patch. I beat the frickin game and got gaspy breath Shepard.
 
2013-06-20 12:09:38 PM
I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY.

You've left this poor Xbox One employee a shamble of his former self.   Read for yourself

Here's an excerpt:

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library.
[...]
When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game.

/this is an unverified blog post
//could be fake
 
2013-06-20 12:16:13 PM
1. CliffyB has been, and always shall be one of the Rob Liefelds of video games.

2. I'm still keeping my PS4 preorder because the Xbox One is $100 more and that gets me features I will NEVER use. I don't subscribe to cable or watch broadcast TV, so the pass-through is useless. I don't like or care about motion control, so the Kinect is useless. The one non-game feature I might like-- Netflix-- requires a $60 annual subscription on top of my Netflix subscription, so I'll stick with my HTPC or Roku for that.

3. I'm also getting an Ouya, and will enjoy new exclusive games in the months leading up to December. I'll also have my pile of retro games via emus, and spend some tinkering with XBMC on Ouya. And yes, the Ouya IS different from an Android stick or Android mini-PC. Many games will be exclusives, they'll all be optimized for the Ouya (controller-based, and taking advantage of a CPU/GPU that draws AC power, has a cooling fan, and doesn't need to dedicate anything to phone/tablet background processes.)

4. The only way I'd consider the Xbox One is if they sold a version without Kinect being required. Period. I'm not interested in it. I don't want it. MS can therefore keep it.
 
2013-06-20 12:16:55 PM

Ajanu: I don't see how anyone can claim PS4 won, when those people don't have a working system and are basing their opinion on outdated/wrong information.


You think it matters whether the information used to make decisions is up-to-date and accurate?

It doesn't matter which product is objectively better.  It only matter which product is perceived as better, and Microsoft has been doing a crap job of managing perception of their product.
 
2013-06-20 12:17:39 PM
The guy responsible for Gears of War has something to say about tacked-on multiplayer and DLC. Which is kind of like Jean-Paul Akayesu having something to say about ethnic cleansing, but whatevs, we'd better all stop and listen anyway.
 
2013-06-20 12:20:41 PM

CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.


If somebody's returning a game to Gamestop within 48 hours of obtaining it, it probably means the game was shyte and the publisher barely even deserves the revenue they got from the first time it was purchased, much less any additional revenue for the next sucker who falls for the hype.
 
2013-06-20 12:21:25 PM

CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.


If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.
 
2013-06-20 12:21:45 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Dude, I swear I beat the game before the extended cut as I went to watch Fark be angrey about it. I swear I didn't use MP. Maybe some other patch BEFORE the EC was released did it, as I didn;t have the game for about 2 weeks after the release. It just couldn;t have been the EC patch. I beat the frickin game and got gaspy breath Shepard.


Many individuals on the Bioware official forums issued the same claim. Those who had actually examined the game files requested screenshots of the war assets listing. Three types of responses occurred:

1) No response at all
2) A screenshot showing a galactic readiness above 50% (of screenshots given, this was the most common) despite the player claiming never to have touched multiplayer or the iPad tie-in game.
3) A screenshot showing a particular war asset with a score higher than was specified in the game files, indicating an altered game data file (a game "mod" had been released to adjust certain aspects of the game, which included an adjustment of war asset scores; all screenshots showing inflated asset values were consistent with the alterations of the mod).

A response not provided: an actual screenshot showing war asset scores consistent with established in-game scores (derived from game data files) with a total that added up to 4000.

Following each patch prior to the "Extended Cut" release, players tested and confirmed that the EMS requirement for the "breathe" teaser had not changed.
 
2013-06-20 12:26:27 PM

red5ish: If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.


No, the problem in that circumstance is the moronic gamer who willfully takes it up the ass from a retailer instead of eBaying it, or selling it to a friend or acquaintance, at a competitive price and simply pocketing the difference.
 
2013-06-20 12:31:28 PM
abhorrent1

Soon you will essentially be buying a blank disk for $60 then have to immediately pay for a DLC to play the game

I think they are hoping for this..
 
2013-06-20 12:33:25 PM

Lexx: Seriously people, buy an Ouya


You mean that cube thing with 1GB of memory and a tegra 3 CPU? Yeah, that thing can't even compete with my farking tablet. It's a joke. Angry Birds and Cut the Rope are games you play sitting on the shiatter, not sitting on a couch.
 
2013-06-20 12:35:23 PM

Cytokine Storm: I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY.

You've left this poor Xbox One employee a shamble of his former self.   Read for yourself

Here's an excerpt:

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library.
[...]
When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game.

/this is an unverified blog post
//could be fake


That is a pretty interesting read. At least as much as that guy knows, it'll still exists for downloaded games. I hope that is true.
 
2013-06-20 12:36:12 PM

that bosnian sniper: red5ish: If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.

No, the problem in that circumstance is the moronic gamer who willfully takes it up the ass from a retailer instead of eBaying it, or selling it to a friend or acquaintance, at a competitive price and simply pocketing the difference.


I was looking at it from the publisher's point of view, that they can't blame the ability to trade in or re-sell a game for loss of revenue during the "hyped" early sales period. If they publish games that are worth keeping they won't have many consumers trading or re-selling the games. If a publisher puts out a such a crappy game that consumers immediately turn around and sell it, by whatever means, the problem is that the publisher put out a crappy game.
 
2013-06-20 12:37:04 PM

Cytokine Storm: I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY.

You've left this poor Xbox One employee a shamble of his former self.   Read for yourself

Here's an excerpt:

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library.
[...]
When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game.

/this is an unverified blog post
//could be fake


What the hell is the point of having "Shared" games if they can only play it 15-60 minutes? I'd rather just give them the disc so they can play it as long as they want. If they like it they can buy me a new copy on amazon and keep the one i sent them.
 
2013-06-20 12:41:08 PM

that bosnian sniper: red5ish: If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.

No, the problem in that circumstance is the moronic gamer who willfully takes it up the ass from a retailer instead of eBaying it, or selling it to a friend or acquaintance, at a competitive price and simply pocketing the difference.


There's also the point that if places like GameStop get the game used so early, it's not being sold at a significant discount.  48 hours later, a new game found used is probably being sold at $55 instead of $60.  It's only sold less if it has an online pass that was already used... maybe.

I'll admit GameStop is in the best position to change used game policy, but they have to step up and do it first.  You could say they're already helping the publishers to some extent by offering more in trade-ins when people buy newly released games, which is pretty universal for them now, but they still sell that used game again and get every drop of profit.

Here's something GameStop could do that would literally make publishers shut up about used games overnight.  GameStop announces that in order to keep things fair with publishers, they will give the publisher the EXACT retail percentage they get to the publisher whenever they sell a used game of theirs.  The percentage will be on a publisher by publisher basis, so each return would be based exactly on what's given.  All GameStop has to say then is if the publisher doesn't like what they're getting back, they need to give them a bigger percentage up front.  After all, they're just giving them the exact same deal back, and will MATCH it if they bump it up.

And instantly, the quagmire on used games ceases to exist.
 
2013-06-20 12:52:24 PM

HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.


Yes, but now it puts the whole thing on shakier ground, legally.  With the Xbone's DRM you could argue that it was a condition of using the console, and MS is allowed to impose such conditions.  However, all of the sudden a bunch of game studios start "independently" pushing these DRM "solutions", conveniently at the same time, all that seem to coincidentally be aimed at wiping out an entire sub-industry that they have frequently argued "steals their profits"... well the words "antitrust" and "anti-competitive" aren't too hard to bring to mind.
 
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