If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Twitter)   In response to MS retracting XBone DRM, creator of XBone exclusive titles joins MS in destroying the XBone by promising to turn all game components into DLC   (twitter.com) divider line 229
    More: Followup, DRM, classical elements  
•       •       •

5770 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Jun 2013 at 7:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



229 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-06-20 06:42:28 AM
I hope that's fake.
 
2013-06-20 07:01:06 AM

RedPhoenix122: I hope that's fake.


probably not.  there's a push by companies to create new and more invasive forms of DRM.  never mind that it doesn't work, offends customers and only adds to the cost of games without increasing their value....
 
2013-06-20 07:17:50 AM
Headline...acronym overload...
 
2013-06-20 07:19:36 AM
In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.
 
2013-06-20 07:49:45 AM

RedPhoenix122: I hope that's fake.


he's been saying stuff like that for at least a month now, he's a big defender of the xbone drm and thinks the industry is doomed without xbone's drm
 
2013-06-20 07:53:30 AM
This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.
 
2013-06-20 07:56:40 AM
XBone?
Cross Bone?
4.bp.blogspot.com

I guess a new Gundam game is coming out.
 
2013-06-20 08:09:33 AM
Is CliffyB even employed?
 
2013-06-20 08:13:12 AM
Here's my translation of the tweet. Correct me if I'm wrong:

"Y'all biatches done gone and make us remove alllll that DRM that publishers wanted. And you know... you just KNOW... what with all the DRM gone, the publishers are gonna just slap on some multiplayer and unnecessary DLC so they can squeeze money out of you damn used-game buyers"

So he's basically saying that it'll be just like this generation, except that he predicts publishers will do worse things.

The very few AAA games I played and absolutely loved this generation had DLC and multiplayer that I never touched once, but I never felt the game was incomplete. Why should I assume that it'll be worse? That just sounds like butthurt to me.
 
2013-06-20 08:13:19 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony said publishers will have the same DRM abilities as they have with the PS3.
 
2013-06-20 08:14:01 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-20 08:15:44 AM
Soon you will essentially be buying a blank disk for $60 then have to immediately pay for a DLC to play the game
 
2013-06-20 08:16:28 AM

Mike_LowELL: In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.


In the case of the Xboned he is actually correct.  Which I admit is  minor miracle we should make a note of (under 'a stopped clock' probably).  Microsoft have already said: No publisher = Not on XBox.  It's generally intimated that this means a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft and so on rather than some enterprising indie who is both developer and makes a one man band publishing company.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiment about the mans line of thought though.  He's almost as bonkers as Carmack's "DirectX is awesome" splurge... whilst all of his peers are busy brushing up on OpenGL due to the portability of it.
 
2013-06-20 08:20:44 AM

jonny_q: Here's my translation of the tweet. Correct me if I'm wrong:



Nearly correct.  Needs more random splurging about how awesome he is, preferably with a Gears of War refference.  You should season with format flip-flop as well (which ever two formats take your fancy... say the 2600 and the Coleco) if you really want to master your Clifford to English.

/Seriously he calls himself 'CliffyB'... he's OLDER THAN I AM.
//I at least have a proper name: Vaneshi.
 
2013-06-20 08:22:56 AM

Vaneshi: Mike_LowELL: In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.

In the case of the Xboned he is actually correct.  Which I admit is  minor miracle we should make a note of (under 'a stopped clock' probably).  Microsoft have already said: No publisher = Not on XBox.  It's generally intimated that this means a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft and so on rather than some enterprising indie who is both developer and makes a one man band publishing company.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiment about the mans line of thought though.  He's almost as bonkers as Carmack's "DirectX is awesome" splurge... whilst all of his peers are busy brushing up on OpenGL due to the portability of it.


From what I've read, if you want to sell a downloadable game on the XBone, you have to have two games for sale at retail, which screws over indie devs.
 
2013-06-20 08:25:08 AM

HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.


What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales? Does any other industry work that way? Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold? How about movies? Do movie studios get a cut of resales of used DVDs?
 
2013-06-20 08:28:41 AM
What's the OMG all about? Don't all platforms do this already?
 
2013-06-20 08:29:24 AM

digistil: HotWingConspiracy: Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony said publishers will have the same DRM abilities as they have with the PS3.


Not sure, but they already have the freedom to chisel you. It's like with ME3, you cannot access the online portion unless you pay EA, and you can't "complete" (you can finish, but not get the good ending) unless you do the multiplayer stuff. So if you get a used copy, EA is getting that cash if you're interested in completing the game.
 
2013-06-20 08:33:00 AM

Faddy: Is CliffyB even employed?


No.  And he's not making any XBox One exclusives. And it's not a promise, it's a prediction.  Subby lies to you.
 
2013-06-20 08:33:24 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: From what I've read, if you want to sell a downloadable game on the XBone, you have to have two games for sale at retail, which screws over indie devs.


Pretty much.  Which does kinda limit what size of company were talking about due to how expensive the process of getting a disc in to a store can be.

What I can't find out, although it's probably buried in the various documentation, is if that's two retail releases currently for sale or just two retail releases over a defined period of time.   Do Microsoft count Steam as retail or only physical store locations?  It could, theoretically, be a way around it.
 
2013-06-20 08:33:32 AM

Cythraul: HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.

What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales?


They're not really doing that, not directly anyway. "Getting a cut" wasn't the best way to describe it.

They can't reach in to Gamestop's pockets, but they can sell incomplete games then sell access to get all the rest, to every single person that ends up with that disc.
 
2013-06-20 08:39:15 AM

Cythraul: Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold?


No, but the tax man does.
 
2013-06-20 08:41:19 AM

Cythraul: HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.

What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales? Does any other industry work that way? Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold? How about movies? Do movie studios get a cut of resales of used DVDs?


Most of those other industries don't because they can't (or at least can't figure out a way to do it). A professor I know, who authors textbook, told me that the book publishers are constantly trying to think of a way of getting back the money "stolen" from them by used book sales.
 
2013-06-20 08:42:41 AM

eiger: Cythraul: HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.

What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales? Does any other industry work that way? Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold? How about movies? Do movie studios get a cut of resales of used DVDs?

Most of those other industries don't because they can't (or at least can't figure out a way to do it). A professor I know, who authors textbook, told me that the book publishers are constantly trying to think of a way of getting back the money "stolen" from them by used book sales.


Well these people need to die in a farking fire.
 
2013-06-20 08:43:45 AM

antidisestablishmentarianism: Cythraul: Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold?

No, but the tax man does.


But, if I try to walk, he'll tax my feet.
 
2013-06-20 08:43:58 AM

AdamK: RedPhoenix122: I hope that's fake.

he's been saying stuff like that for at least a month now, he's a big defender of the xbone drm and thinks the industry is doomed without xbone's drm


Obviously, he's trying to push the XB1 as "Saviour of Videogames" because if the systems doesn't move units, Gears Of War 4 won't sell enough copies to make a profit.

Cliffy B is the Rob Liefeld of video games.
 
2013-06-20 08:47:26 AM
The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!
 
2013-06-20 08:47:31 AM
I don't know why people want "XBone" to catch on so badly.
 
2013-06-20 08:48:48 AM
There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.
 
2013-06-20 08:50:28 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.


Fallout 3 complete edition, 2 years later, for $30.

Sorry guys, unless you make AMAZING multiplayer a thing, AND tell your buyers that the multiplayer's only good for a few years, you won't get $80 from me.
 
2013-06-20 08:51:30 AM

narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!


At no point did MS provide a plausable detailed plan on how the 'selling your digital copy' would actually work. They said you could do it, yet didn;t say for how much, at what times, NOTHING. Personally I was wating for those details and for them to lighten up on the 24 hour DRM restriction before deciding which system.

Don;t get all pissy with the internet for MS's lack of any discernable details on how they were going to make used games work.
 
2013-06-20 08:53:12 AM
Cythraul:  What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales?

Money and frankly we're at the point where something has got to give IMHO.  When a game such as Tomb Raider can sell 6 million units. top the charts for it's released platforms and still be considered a financial flop by its publisher... there is a massive problem in the industry when it comes to both budgets AND inflating sales predictions to unreasonable levels (Tomb Raider was never going to sell the expected 12 - 20 million units it just wasn't, FFS it shifting 6 million is quite remarkable).

Of course the biggest problem these companies have is that they're fast running out of people to blame for these 'screw ups'.  In the 90's it was us PC gamers who bore the brunt of their ire; we were dirty evil thieves who needed constant watching.   Except now we ARE watched constantly in an environment that is DRM heavy and generally precludes 'casual piracy' (Steam, Origin, et al) and it's this 'casual piracy' which was apparently the big problem.   So it's not us.  It must be you console people because obviously it couldn't be the publishers fault due to living in a fantasy land where every 360 owner will buy 2+ copies of your game.

Now despite second hand games being around since the days of the 2600 this has become the industries bogeyman as piracy has been wiped out *snicker*, it's second hand games which are killing off publishers and forcing them to do all of this.   They'll biatch and moan, moan and biatch, stamp their little feet and point fingers until they get exactly what they want.   Which, when you look at the XBone is doing just that.

Once used games have been killed (or heavily curtailed in the publishers mind) then a new bogeyman will dutifully be summoned to take its place as the reason video games aren't making enough money.

And I haven't even gone in to the bullshiat of Game & GameStop being 'hated' whilst publishers throw them so many farking exclusive bits of tat.

/ Every one who brought a copy of Tomb Raider should send SquareEnix a letter of apology.
// And the £30 they failed to give the company for their second copy.
// Only slightly joking.
 
2013-06-20 08:54:31 AM

drjekel_mrhyde: What's the OMG all about? Don't all platforms do this already?


Yeah, I thought that was pretty much the AAA model at this point.  Take Arkham City (a pretty good game) as an example.  There were launch day DLC, that you could buy later.  There were other DLC that added characters, costumes, missions, etc.  All for the seemingly small price of $10 a piece. After a few times, you have a game that cost $100.  This is a good reason to always wait for the "Game of the Year" editions. (On a side note, how come every games seems to have a GoTY edition, even if it wasn't?)
 
2013-06-20 08:56:34 AM
30 minute video explaining why used games suck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_f8YBy39M
 
2013-06-20 09:00:56 AM

Vaneshi: Once used games have been killed (or heavily curtailed in the publishers mind) then a new bogeyman will dutifully be summoned to take its place as the reason video games aren't making enough money.


So let's say piracy is completely eliminated (yeah, right), and the sales of used games no longer exist.

What else could they possibly blame for the failure of their games to achieve their expected level of greed / profit margin?
 
2013-06-20 09:01:48 AM
Well this should be a surprise to no one. Thanks a lot internet nerds you farked it up for the rest of us.
 
2013-06-20 09:03:20 AM

RyansPrivates: drjekel_mrhyde: What's the OMG all about? Don't all platforms do this already?

Yeah, I thought that was pretty much the AAA model at this point.  Take Arkham City (a pretty good game) as an example.  There were launch day DLC, that you could buy later.  There were other DLC that added characters, costumes, missions, etc.  All for the seemingly small price of $10 a piece. After a few times, you have a game that cost $100.  This is a good reason to always wait for the "Game of the Year" editions. (On a side note, how come every games seems to have a GoTY edition, even if it wasn't?)


It's the lure to get users who'd never pay full price to finally buy a copy.  Fallout 3 game of the year edition, etc.  Like hell I'm ever paying $100 for a goddamned video game.
 
2013-06-20 09:03:21 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.


Tell me why it costs more to upgrade my BF3 account to the Premium edition than it does to outright buy a new BF3 Premium edition and start a new account.
 
2013-06-20 09:03:55 AM

khhsdude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_f8YBy39M


A 30min video from someone who's tune has changed remarkably since his fortunes increased and he moved to America.  I remember the earlier revision of that (it was a mailbox) where he quite clearly stated the problem was how Game/GameStop were pushing used games in favour of new; even when the customer WANTED new and not the pure existence of a second hand market.

It's also interesting that John has put out videos which basically stated "If you don't like my channel fark off" (yes he literally used the uncensored version) and then seems to be utterly mystified when people take his advice and do leave him to his own devices.

A law degree he might have... but he isn't too bright sometimes.  That video is one of those times.
 
2013-06-20 09:06:39 AM

eiger: Cythraul: HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.

What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales? Does any other industry work that way? Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold? How about movies? Do movie studios get a cut of resales of used DVDs?

Most of those other industries don't because they can't (or at least can't figure out a way to do it). A professor I know, who authors textbook, told me that the book publishers are constantly trying to think of a way of getting back the money "stolen" from them by used book sales.


You wouldn't add Downloadable Content to a CAR would you?

/screw you, I would if I could!
 
2013-06-20 09:08:13 AM

RyansPrivates: drjekel_mrhyde: What's the OMG all about? Don't all platforms do this already?

Yeah, I thought that was pretty much the AAA model at this point.  Take Arkham City (a pretty good game) as an example.  There were launch day DLC, that you could buy later.  There were other DLC that added characters, costumes, missions, etc.  All for the seemingly small price of $10 a piece. After a few times, you have a game that cost $100.  This is a good reason to always wait for the "Game of the Year" editions. (On a side note, how come every games seems to have a GoTY edition, even if it wasn't?)


I have a really crazy idea. You could just enjoy the game without the DLC.  I have purchased the following DLC

Red Dead Redemption undead nightmare pack
Grand theft Auto IV Lost and the Damned and The Ballad of Gay Tony
Fallout 3 and fallout NV all DLC packs
Some of the DLC for skyrim but I plan to pick up the legendary pack for the PC eventually


These are actual add-ons and were all worth the price.  If you get suckered into buying bad DLC well that's kind of shiatty but it's on you.  Don't complain online about DLC if you are stupid enough to buy shiatty products.  Do you go out and buy a shiatty CRT TV and then biatch online about how criminal it is that RCA sold you a piece of shiat TV?
 
2013-06-20 09:08:57 AM

narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!


Far better than saying "fark it, sure, those features are TOTALLY worth giving up rights to ownership of my property and any kind of hope that my games will be available more than 6 years from now!"

Plus, if MS has half a brain left after the bleach chugging storm that was their development cycle for the Xbone, they'll leave the family share option in somehow.  From the way they were phrasing things, I'm betting the console will let you play with the disk without any DRM, but digital no-disk play may still have that checkin... that would be best of both worlds, and would leave the option for the family share open.

I'm wagering they'll figure out a way to leave the family share option open, since it's really the only bonus they have at all over the PS4 at the moment, what with weaker hardware, higher pricing, privacy concerns (especially with Google's lawsuit, I'm extra-worried about PRISM and NSA stuff now).  They're fighting a serious uphill battle from the get-go, and they went and shot themselves in the foot at the start to boot, they can't afford to scrap any advantage they can muster now.
 
2013-06-20 09:08:58 AM

RedPhoenix122: Jim from Saint Paul: There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.

Tell me why it costs more to upgrade my BF3 account to the Premium edition than it does to outright buy a new BF3 Premium edition and start a new account.


Because EA.
 
2013-06-20 09:10:02 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: RedPhoenix122: Jim from Saint Paul: There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.

Tell me why it costs more to upgrade my BF3 account to the Premium edition than it does to outright buy a new BF3 Premium edition and start a new account.

Because EA.


EA, Activision, big publishers can fark off.
 
2013-06-20 09:10:40 AM
CliffyB is a shortsighted fool.  He's also the guy who pushed the "death of PC gaming" meme hard a few years back, and even claimed Epic was going to get out of the PC games business entirely because of it.  5 years later, PC gaming is strong as ever, and Epic still makes PC games.
 
2013-06-20 09:11:53 AM

narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!


And you know what, even IF the "razorblade" model became more prevalent, that'd still be better than the original proposal--because at least you own "something" you can share with your friends or siblings.  More often than not, anyone who's sharing disks probably isn't interested in the "true ending" or the competitive multiplayer component.  In either model, the publisher is still going to try and extort you (and all used-gamers) the most they possibly can--if you think they weren't going to offer DLC or "expansions" under the original model, you're delusional.

Bottom-line:  first-sale doctrine should still apply, especially to "walled-garden" environments like a console--since the investment to the console is fairly steep to enough people (at least enough where you won't likely buy both consoles), it's probably the best way to keep costs competitive, as they are also competing against existing prior-art (ie, used-games).

/If they try to take DLC to the extreme again where you can basically only share a demo version of the game, then the outrage will flood in again (just like it did now)
//Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway
 
2013-06-20 09:12:22 AM

Cythraul: What else could they possibly blame for the failure of their games to achieve their expected level of greed / profit margin?


This is just off the top of my head mind but...

If a game is launched with a retail focus then you've got:  Insufficient store locations, insufficient shelf space, stores failing to maximise use of marketing materials.

If a game is launched with a download focus then you got: insufficient broadband penetration.
 
2013-06-20 09:12:49 AM

Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: I hope that's fake.

probably not.  there's a push by companies to create new and more invasive forms of DRM.  never mind that it doesn't work, offends customers and only adds to the cost of games without increasing their value....


What do you mean, 'never mind' that last part? That part is the whole reason companies want DRM in the first place: to nickel-and-dime consumers to death for things that could and should have been in the initial and complete release of the game.
 
2013-06-20 09:13:34 AM

RedPhoenix122: Jim from Saint Paul: RedPhoenix122: Jim from Saint Paul: There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.

Tell me why it costs more to upgrade my BF3 account to the Premium edition than it does to outright buy a new BF3 Premium edition and start a new account.

Because EA.

EA, Activision, big publishers can fark off.


AGreed.

Except I will be picking up Madden and the new CoD more then likely this year.

So not really I guess.
 
2013-06-20 09:16:25 AM
Here's a thought bleszinski. how about you NOT treat your consumers like criminals?
 
2013-06-20 09:16:30 AM

Vaneshi: Cythraul: What else could they possibly blame for the failure of their games to achieve their expected level of greed / profit margin?

This is just off the top of my head mind but...

If a game is launched with a retail focus then you've got:  Insufficient store locations, insufficient shelf space, stores failing to maximise use of marketing materials.

If a game is launched with a download focus then you got: insufficient broadband penetration.


Those sound like retail and distribution problems. I doubt they could take measures to compensate for those theoretical downfalls that would end up punishing consumers directly.
 
2013-06-20 09:17:46 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: RedPhoenix122: Jim from Saint Paul: RedPhoenix122: Jim from Saint Paul: There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.

Tell me why it costs more to upgrade my BF3 account to the Premium edition than it does to outright buy a new BF3 Premium edition and start a new account.

Because EA.

EA, Activision, big publishers can fark off.

AGreed.

Except I will be picking up Madden and the new CoD more then likely this year.

So not really I guess.


Meh, both franchises are pretty much crap anymore.  Also, one of my biatches about the XBone is that they will not allow indie developers to self-publish.
 
2013-06-20 09:18:38 AM

TheOriginalEd: Here's a thought bleszinski. how about you NOT treat your consumers like criminals?


Probably getting business advice from the MPAA.
 
2013-06-20 09:18:42 AM
Honestly, if you buy anything from Microsoft with regards to the XBOX franchise, you're an idiot.
 
2013-06-20 09:19:13 AM
Last day for FREE Torchlight on GOG.COM!!  Part of their DRM Free Summer Sale.
 
2013-06-20 09:19:20 AM

HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.


Actually they said a lot about what they were going to let publishers do. Online passes for multiplayer would be forbidden, bonus items or content for the original purchaser would be ok.
 
2013-06-20 09:19:53 AM

Millennium: Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: I hope that's fake.

probably not.  there's a push by companies to create new and more invasive forms of DRM.  never mind that it doesn't work, offends customers and only adds to the cost of games without increasing their value....

What do you mean, 'never mind' that last part? That part is the whole reason companies want DRM in the first place: to nickel-and-dime consumers to death for things that could and should have been in the initial and complete release of the game.


The majority of gamers are of the dilluted thought proces that all games cost $60. Especially your CoD gamers. They would bristle at the idea of paying $80.00 for a game up front, yet will buy 4 map packs at $15 a piece while barely flinching.

*going to yell at the internet for a minute, not you personally*

People bristle at paying more then $60 EVEN IF THEY COSTED $50 BACK IN THE ATARI AND NES DAYS. Like EVERYTHING ELSE has gone up in price EVERYWHERE. We gamers biatch about $60 and wonder WHY DLC is prevelant. YEESH

*[/endyelling]*

So anyway.the companies will try to make their money. Because games imply don;t cost $60 per to make anymore.
 
2013-06-20 09:22:00 AM

Egoy3k: These are actual add-ons and were all worth the price.  If you get suckered into buying bad DLC well that's kind of shiatty but it's on you.  Don't complain online about DLC if you are stupid enough to buy shiatty products.  Do you go out and buy a shiatty CRT TV and then biatch online about how criminal it is that RCA sold you a piece of shiat TV?


I didn't say I bought the DLC, I was just observing the business model used by most AAA publishers on consoles today.  Truth of the matter is I am mostly a PC gamer and I get DLC  for free (i.e. mods).  When I do buy a game for my console, I invariably wait on the later "GotY" edition or the "platinum" hits edition that usually cost significantly less.
 
2013-06-20 09:22:13 AM

Vaneshi: /Seriously he calls himself 'CliffyB'... he's OLDER THAN I AM.


He did try for a while to get people to stop doing that, but when you keep acting like a juvenile, people have a hard time letting go of juvenile nicknames for you.
 
2013-06-20 09:22:24 AM

Electric_Banana: antidisestablishmentarianism: Cythraul: Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold?

No, but the tax man does.

But, if I try to walk, he'll tax my feet.


Hey, be thankful he doesn't take it all.
 
2013-06-20 09:22:29 AM

narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy.


Ummm... no, it didn't, at least not with the freedom current consoles have with disc-based games.  Sharing was limited to one library that could be shared with up to 10 people, and if any one of those 10 is playing a game in that library, nobody else could play that game or any other game in that library.  And as for selling digital copies, XB1 never allowed for selling purely digital games, but it did restrict you to selling your disc-based games only to "authorized retailers".

narkor: Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).


The problem there is that consoles are already on the "razorblade" model -- get the razor (console) cheap, pay farkloads for the cartridges (games).  And then pay farkloads more for the DLC (which there is no analogy for in the razor world, but hey).

narkor: But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!


People keep saying this, but here's a news flash for you:  Gamestop wasn't going to be the ones who suffer from all this.  I'm sure they were the first ones to get signed up as an "authorized retailer"; to be honest, they're probably the entire reason the "authorized retailer" program existed.  Hell, with the exclusivity XB1 would have granted them, by taking away your ability to sell your games to a mom-and-pop shop or simply list them on eBay, they would have had free reign to ream you even more on their buyback prices.  And honestly, even if they were going to suffer, you're giving up a lot to make them suffer.  You're happily cutting off your nose to spite your face.
 
2013-06-20 09:22:30 AM

Phil Moskowitz: Honestly, if you buy anything from Microsoft with regards to the XBOX franchise, you're an idiot.


Well. I'm sold. Thanks.
 
2013-06-20 09:24:06 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: The majority of gamers are of the dilluted thought proces that all games cost $60. Especially your CoD gamers. They would bristle at the idea of paying $80.00 for a game up front, yet will buy 4 map packs at $15 a piece while barely flinching.


Call of Duty Black Ops 2 hit $1 billion dollars in 15 days. Faster than Avatar or any other entertainment product in history. Video games are making more money today than ever and the industry as a whole is bigger. AAA game do cost more to make you're absolutely right. They are also earn more than ever before. If you can find any Atari or SNES game that made $1 billion i'd love to hear about it.
 
2013-06-20 09:24:43 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!

At no point did MS provide a plausable detailed plan on how the 'selling your digital copy' would actually work. They said you could do it, yet didn;t say for how much, at what times, NOTHING. Personally I was wating for those details and for them to lighten up on the 24 hour DRM restriction before deciding which system.

Don;t get all pissy with the internet for MS's lack of any discernable details on how they were going to make used games work.


You were not among the screaming throngs demanding that the system was the worst thing ever.
 
2013-06-20 09:26:31 AM

HeartBurnKid: narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy.

Ummm... no, it didn't, at least not with the freedom current consoles have with disc-based games.  Sharing was limited to one library that could be shared with up to 10 people, and if any one of those 10 is playing a game in that library, nobody else could play that game or any other game in that library.  And as for selling digital copies, XB1 never allowed for selling purely digital games, but it did restrict you to selling your disc-based games only to "authorized retailers".

narkor: Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

The problem there is that consoles are already on the "razorblade" model -- get the razor (console) cheap, pay farkloads for the cartridges (games).  And then pay farkloads more for the DLC (which there is no analogy for in the razor world, but hey).

narkor: But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!

People keep saying this, but here's a news flash for you:  Gamestop wasn't going to be the ones who suffer from all this.  I'm sure they were the first ones to get signed up as an "authorized retailer"; to be honest, they're probably the entire reason the "authorized retailer" program existed.  Hell, with the exclusivity XB1 would have granted them, by taking away your ability to sell your games to a mom-and-pop shop or simply list them on eBay, they would have had free reign to ream you even more on their buyback prices.  And honestly, even if they were going to suffer, you're giving up a lot to make them suffer.  You're happily cutting off your nose to spite your face.


Shaving cream? You don't need it shave but it sure makes the whole experience better... of course you'd need to be locked into a specific brand depending on what razor you use.
 
2013-06-20 09:26:33 AM

HeartBurnKid: And then pay farkloads more for the DLC (which there is no analogy for in the razor world, but hey).


Its the "lubrication strip", sure, you don't need it, but it makes shaving more enjoyable.
 
2013-06-20 09:28:04 AM

Cythraul: Those sound like retail and distribution problems. I doubt they could take measures to compensate for those theoretical downfalls that would end up punishing consumers directly.


They're only punishing consumers because video gamers in general have shown they'll take the beating and then queue up for the next big release from that self same publisher.    The point is that they'll blame anyone and anything rather than own up that this is their problem and one that is singularly of their creation by setting utterly unrealistic expectations.

So, purely off the top of your head what fits the criteria then.  Once 2nd hand games is 'dead' (as piracy already is).

Jim from Saint Paul: So anyway.the companies will try to make their money. Because games imply don;t cost $60 per to make anymore.


So companies need to be more realistic about their budgets, development teams and how well a game will sell and indeed the shelf life of the product.  I'm not paying £30+ for a game that'll have its servers shut down shortly after the sequel is released, or just randomly because it "didn't sell well enough".
 
2013-06-20 09:28:40 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: Phil Moskowitz: Honestly, if you buy anything from Microsoft with regards to the XBOX franchise, you're an idiot.

Well. I'm sold. Thanks.


Hey, if you want your credit card information locked into a company that engineers their shiat to keep it for life, by all means. Sounds like you're just the type of customer they're looking for.
 
2013-06-20 09:30:42 AM

Carth: Jim from Saint Paul: The majority of gamers are of the dilluted thought proces that all games cost $60. Especially your CoD gamers. They would bristle at the idea of paying $80.00 for a game up front, yet will buy 4 map packs at $15 a piece while barely flinching.

Call of Duty Black Ops 2 hit $1 billion dollars in 15 days. Faster than Avatar or any other entertainment product in history. Video games are making more money today than ever and the industry as a whole is bigger. AAA game do cost more to make you're absolutely right. They are also earn more than ever before. If you can find any Atari or SNES game that made $1 billion i'd love to hear about it.


Not sure what you're retorting.

I was saying that the majority of gamers think they only pay $60 for a game when in reality they pay more.
 
2013-06-20 09:32:38 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: Carth: Jim from Saint Paul: The majority of gamers are of the dilluted thought proces that all games cost $60. Especially your CoD gamers. They would bristle at the idea of paying $80.00 for a game up front, yet will buy 4 map packs at $15 a piece while barely flinching.

Call of Duty Black Ops 2 hit $1 billion dollars in 15 days. Faster than Avatar or any other entertainment product in history. Video games are making more money today than ever and the industry as a whole is bigger. AAA game do cost more to make you're absolutely right. They are also earn more than ever before. If you can find any Atari or SNES game that made $1 billion i'd love to hear about it.

Not sure what you're retorting.

I was saying that the majority of gamers think they only pay $60 for a game when in reality they pay more.


Ah ok, I took what you were saying to mean  games today are under priced and the industry needs to charge more to be profitable.

Of course they charge whatever people are willing to pay and breaking the price into smaller allotments is an old trick to extract more money.
 
2013-06-20 09:32:54 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: Vaneshi: Mike_LowELL: In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.

In the case of the Xboned he is actually correct.  Which I admit is  minor miracle we should make a note of (under 'a stopped clock' probably).  Microsoft have already said: No publisher = Not on XBox.  It's generally intimated that this means a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft and so on rather than some enterprising indie who is both developer and makes a one man band publishing company.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiment about the mans line of thought though.  He's almost as bonkers as Carmack's "DirectX is awesome" splurge... whilst all of his peers are busy brushing up on OpenGL due to the portability of it.

From what I've read, if you want to sell a downloadable game on the XBone, you have to have two games for sale at retail, which screws over indie devs.


yeah, you can't self-publish on any microsoft console despite the industry going in that direction
 
2013-06-20 09:39:38 AM

AdamK: Tyrone Slothrop: Vaneshi: Mike_LowELL: In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.

In the case of the Xboned he is actually correct.  Which I admit is  minor miracle we should make a note of (under 'a stopped clock' probably).  Microsoft have already said: No publisher = Not on XBox.  It's generally intimated that this means a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft and so on rather than some enterprising indie who is both developer and makes a one man band publishing company.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiment about the mans line of thought though.  He's almost as bonkers as Carmack's "DirectX is awesome" splurge... whilst all of his peers are busy brushing up on OpenGL due to the portability of it.

From what I've read, if you want to sell a downloadable game on the XBone, you have to have two games for sale at retail, which screws over indie devs.

yeah, you can't self-publish on any microsoft console despite the industry going in that direction


That's why I have high hopes in the Ouya, and Steambox.

Seriously people, buy an Ouya, and buy some games.  I am 99% sure I'm going to be replacing my desktop with a "Steam box" if/when they come out.  Steam for AAA games and Ouya/Android market for dollar games.
 
2013-06-20 09:44:23 AM

Carth: Jim from Saint Paul: Carth: Jim from Saint Paul: The majority of gamers are of the dilluted thought proces that all games cost $60. Especially your CoD gamers. They would bristle at the idea of paying $80.00 for a game up front, yet will buy 4 map packs at $15 a piece while barely flinching.

Call of Duty Black Ops 2 hit $1 billion dollars in 15 days. Faster than Avatar or any other entertainment product in history. Video games are making more money today than ever and the industry as a whole is bigger. AAA game do cost more to make you're absolutely right. They are also earn more than ever before. If you can find any Atari or SNES game that made $1 billion i'd love to hear about it.

Not sure what you're retorting.

I was saying that the majority of gamers think they only pay $60 for a game when in reality they pay more.

Ah ok, I took what you were saying to mean  games today are under priced and the industry needs to charge more to be profitable.

Of course they charge whatever people are willing to pay and breaking the price into smaller allotments is an old trick to extract more money.


Now that I reread my post, I can see where you thought that. I mean, theoretically, games should be $80 to $80 if they follow inflation models from between 1985 and today.

That being said, that's what the games end up costing usually anyway (assumign you buy a game and one set of $15 DLC content).
 
2013-06-20 09:44:58 AM

RedPhoenix122: TheOriginalEd: Here's a thought bleszinski. how about you NOT treat your consumers like criminals?

Probably getting business advice from the MPAA.


the video game industry for awhile really wanted to ape everything the movie industry did/is doing

AAA game development by its very nature is doomed tho, and was never sustainable like the movie model is

cliffyb is in la-la-land over used games thinking "if only video games were like movies, then there'd be secondary or third waves of income instead of needing to recoup costs all at once in the first month!" well that's the issue - those second or third waves of sales only come at deep discounts, and furthermore said deep discounts are coming not just later but very quickly too - in the end the value of AAA games is dropping like a rock among consumers and no amount of banning used games will change that

be happy there's growth in gaming even if it's in cheaper games
 
kab
2013-06-20 09:51:05 AM
Implying that dlc and tacked on multiplayer weren't going to continue anyhow?

You used to be cool when you were involved in the UT franchise.  When did the sniveling biatch transformation happen?
 
2013-06-20 09:55:53 AM

AdamK: cliffyb is in la-la-land over used games thinking "if only video games were like movies, then there'd be secondary or third waves of income instead of needing to recoup costs all at once in the first month!" well that's the issue - those second or third waves of sales only come at deep discounts,


Budget titles.  These existed from way back in the 8bit days.  I could buy a £0.99 - £5 budget title.  Several of the big names in the industry like Rare (then known as Ultimate: Play the Game) made nothing but good, playable, budget titles that kids could afford with their pocket money.

This is as well as moving prior AAA releases in to cheaper packaging, removing the throw-in trinkets and reselling as a budget title.

The video game industry moved away from that behaviour at around the same time as those second and third wave sales largely vanished (or at least became heavily reduced compared to what they were percentage wise) from that market.
 
2013-06-20 09:56:36 AM

Cythraul: Vaneshi: Once used games have been killed (or heavily curtailed in the publishers mind) then a new bogeyman will dutifully be summoned to take its place as the reason video games aren't making enough money.

So let's say piracy is completely eliminated (yeah, right), and the sales of used games no longer exist.

What else could they possibly blame for the failure of their games to achieve their expected level of greed / profit margin?


The initial price of games is too low? Voice actors are expecting too much money? We paid Doritos too much for the promotional deal? They had to know Haloritos: Cool Ranch Evolved was a bad idea.
 
2013-06-20 09:58:32 AM

poot_rootbeer: Vaneshi: /Seriously he calls himself 'CliffyB'... he's OLDER THAN I AM.

He did try for a while to get people to stop doing that, but when you keep acting like a juvenile, people have a hard time letting go of juvenile nicknames for you.


That is why everyone calls Dick Vitale Dickie V
 
2013-06-20 10:01:19 AM

HotWingConspiracy: digistil: HotWingConspiracy: Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony said publishers will have the same DRM abilities as they have with the PS3.

Not sure, but they already have the freedom to chisel you. It's like with ME3, you cannot access the online portion unless you pay EA, and you can't "complete" (you can finish, but not get the good ending) unless you do the multiplayer stuff. So if you get a used copy, EA is getting that cash if you're interested in completing the game.


Joke's on you, there is no good ending to ME3
 
2013-06-20 10:02:21 AM

FarkGrudge: //Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway


You mean this?  You can turn the Kinect sensor off unless you are playing a game that requires it.  I'm sure the sufficiently paranoid will say it could be on even when it's off.  Microsoft just decided they wanted to sell you one this generation.
 
2013-06-20 10:04:23 AM
I also found it funny that he says it was Sony that made Microsoft change, not whiny gamers. Except the reason Sony was able to "make Microsoft change" was because those whiny gamers sided with Sony, making them the good guy.

If reactions had been equal for both sides, Microsoft wouldn't have changed. If reactions had been largely positive for Microsoft over Sony (I don't know why, maybe aliens mind-controlled us to do it), Sony might've actually changed to imitate Microsoft's plans. The only reason they changed was the instant backlash and the thousands of people who said they were ditching Microsoft and moving to PS4 this generation.

You're a frat-boy douchebag Cliffy B, don't ever change.

And Microsoft, get your dog back on a leash. He's the kind of tool that can sway opinions back in Sony's favor simply by speaking.
 
2013-06-20 10:04:43 AM

Lexx: I am 99% sure I'm going to be replacing my desktop with a "Steam box" if/when they come out.


Why wait?  Build a desktop or SFF PC with a decent GPU (or hell, buy one, like the Alienware X51), install Steam, configure it to load Big Picture on startup.  Boom, there's your Steam box.
 
2013-06-20 10:04:53 AM

PerilousApricot: Joke's on you, there is no good ending to ME3


There is!  It just involves wading through slash fiction of Femshep getting it on with Broshep.
 
2013-06-20 10:05:09 AM

Nefarious: FarkGrudge: //Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway

You mean this?  You can turn the Kinect sensor off PAUSE the kinect senor unless you are playing a game that requires it.  I'm sure the sufficiently paranoid will say it could be on even when it's off.  Microsoft just decided they wanted to sell you one this generation.


FTLA: "If you don't want the Kinect sensor on while playing games or enjoying your entertainment, you can pause Kinect."

Sell me an xbox one for $399 without Kinect and we're in business.
 
2013-06-20 10:08:52 AM

Nefarious: FarkGrudge: //Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway

You mean this?  You can turn the Kinect sensor off unless you are playing a game that requires it.  I'm sure the sufficiently paranoid will say it could be on even when it's off.  Microsoft just decided they wanted to sell you one this generation.


If it's listening for "Xbox on", it's listening. Any bets on how long it takes to hack? I'll set the over-under at 5min for someone to get a feed from a "powered down" console.

// $10 to Child's Play on the under; any takers?
 
2013-06-20 10:09:00 AM

Vaneshi: PerilousApricot: Joke's on you, there is no good ending to ME3

There is!  It just involves wading through slash fiction of Femshep getting it on with Broshep.


I hate to bring up DLC in a thread denouncing DLC, but the final Citadel DLC was fantastic. That was a pure love-letter from Bioware to ME fans with none of the EA stink and felt like the ending we wanted, but not the ending they could give us in the regular game. I wouldn't really recommend any other DLC besides that one.
 
2013-06-20 10:09:13 AM

PerilousApricot: HotWingConspiracy: digistil: HotWingConspiracy: Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony said publishers will have the same DRM abilities as they have with the PS3.

Not sure, but they already have the freedom to chisel you. It's like with ME3, you cannot access the online portion unless you pay EA, and you can't "complete" (you can finish, but not get the good ending) unless you do the multiplayer stuff. So if you get a used copy, EA is getting that cash if you're interested in completing the game.

Joke's on you, there is no good ending to ME3


His defintion of "good" was more then likely "coherent".

And you may not like the 4 choices (Yes there are 4), it at least explains what all the other characters are doing and why.
 
2013-06-20 10:10:22 AM
scottydoesntknow:

And Microsoft, get your dog back on a leash. He's the kind of tool that can sway opinions back in Sony's favor simply by speaking.

Too late.  I mean he tried shoving a knife in the backs of PC gamers... so we don't want him.   I don't think many of the older 360 gamers want him either.   I'm sure watching him is amusing to the Playstation folk but really, they like him where he is I'm sure.

Lets send him off to the Ouya people yeah?
 
2013-06-20 10:19:27 AM

Vaneshi: scottydoesntknow:

And Microsoft, get your dog back on a leash. He's the kind of tool that can sway opinions back in Sony's favor simply by speaking.

Too late.  I mean he tried shoving a knife in the backs of PC gamers... so we don't want him.   I don't think many of the older 360 gamers want him either.   I'm sure watching him is amusing to the Playstation folk but really, they like him where he is I'm sure.

Lets send him off to the Ouya people yeah?


As much as I don't like the Ouya (just seems way too gimmicky), I wouldn't want to subject them to that. Maybe he could go work for Hasbro and figure out a way to implement additional content for board games. I'm thinking dog armor for the little dog piece in Monopoly.
 
2013-06-20 10:22:32 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: Vaneshi: Mike_LowELL: In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.

In the case of the Xboned he is actually correct.  Which I admit is  minor miracle we should make a note of (under 'a stopped clock' probably).  Microsoft have already said: No publisher = Not on XBox.  It's generally intimated that this means a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft and so on rather than some enterprising indie who is both developer and makes a one man band publishing company.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiment about the mans line of thought though.  He's almost as bonkers as Carmack's "DirectX is awesome" splurge... whilst all of his peers are busy brushing up on OpenGL due to the portability of it.

From what I've read, if you want to sell a downloadable game on the XBone, you have to have two games for sale at retail, which screws over indie devs.


I guess this means that the market for vertical-scrolling magical girl-themed hat simulators will not be tapped by the Xbone.
 
2013-06-20 10:24:01 AM
Seems to me that Cliffyb is addopting the Tarkin Doctrine: Fear of this ultimate weapon will keep the gamers in line.

What he's failing to remember is that the gamer alliance destroyed the DRM/dlc star a few days after alderaan was destroyed.

The first developer to come out with a triple A title with a number after 2 in the name that sees sales tank will change their tune QUICK. Thats their thermal exhaust port and it can be HIT.
 
2013-06-20 10:24:52 AM

Dr Dreidel: Nefarious: FarkGrudge: //Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway

You mean this?  You can turn the Kinect sensor off unless you are playing a game that requires it.  I'm sure the sufficiently paranoid will say it could be on even when it's off.  Microsoft just decided they wanted to sell you one this generation.

If it's listening for "Xbox on", it's listening. Any bets on how long it takes to hack? I'll set the over-under at 5min for someone to get a feed from a "powered down" console.

// $10 to Child's Play on the under; any takers?



If you're that paranoid you could unplug it... including the Kinect with Xbox gives developers the incentive to utilize instead of it being just an accessory.
 
2013-06-20 10:29:35 AM

terminalx: Dr Dreidel: Nefarious: FarkGrudge: //Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway

You mean this?  You can turn the Kinect sensor off unless you are playing a game that requires it.  I'm sure the sufficiently paranoid will say it could be on even when it's off.  Microsoft just decided they wanted to sell you one this generation.

If it's listening for "Xbox on", it's listening. Any bets on how long it takes to hack? I'll set the over-under at 5min for someone to get a feed from a "powered down" console.

// $10 to Child's Play on the under; any takers?


If you're that paranoid you could unplug it... including the Kinect with Xbox gives developers the incentive to utilize instead of it being just an accessory.


For Xbox 1 exclusives maybe, but you won't see cross-platform developers utilize it like the way you're thinking. At most it'll be some voice commands like Mass Effect 3.
 
2013-06-20 10:33:27 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: PerilousApricot: HotWingConspiracy: digistil: HotWingConspiracy: Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony said publishers will have the same DRM abilities as they have with the PS3.

Not sure, but they already have the freedom to chisel you. It's like with ME3, you cannot access the online portion unless you pay EA, and you can't "complete" (you can finish, but not get the good ending) unless you do the multiplayer stuff. So if you get a used copy, EA is getting that cash if you're interested in completing the game.

Joke's on you, there is no good ending to ME3

His defintion of "good" was more then likely "coherent".

And you may not like the 4 choices (Yes there are 4), it at least explains what all the other characters are doing and why.


Are we talking about the original ending?
 
2013-06-20 10:34:25 AM

terminalx: Dr Dreidel: Nefarious: FarkGrudge: //Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway

You mean this?  You can turn the Kinect sensor off unless you are playing a game that requires it.  I'm sure the sufficiently paranoid will say it could be on even when it's off.  Microsoft just decided they wanted to sell you one this generation.

If it's listening for "Xbox on", it's listening. Any bets on how long it takes to hack? I'll set the over-under at 5min for someone to get a feed from a "powered down" console.

// $10 to Child's Play on the under; any takers?


If you're that paranoid you could unplug it... including the Kinect with Xbox gives developers the incentive to utilize instead of it being just an accessory.


Can you actually unplug it and play games? Last I heard it needed to be plugged in and "functional" for the system to work .
 
2013-06-20 10:44:05 AM
So, someone agrees with Cliffy B that tacked on multiplayer and DLC are gonna be more common, and this is somehow a big deal? I'd think EA's policy of "sell nothing without a multiplayer component" and the already rampant micro-transations would show that A: he's right, in a way and B: It wouldn't have really mattered what MS did with the One, seeing as there is already a basis for it in the market and it shows no signs of diminishing. You can't honestly say that the One would come out, things would go digital, and suddenly all the publishers say "Our bad for all that old stuff, never again." They have a system that makes money, they're gonna keep it till the well runs dry.
 
2013-06-20 10:45:32 AM

AdamK: he's been saying stuff like that for at least a month now, he's a big defender of the xbone drm and thinks the industry is doomed without xbone's drm


I'll never buy a console with xbone level DRM, so I guess it's doomed either way.
 
2013-06-20 10:45:47 AM

abhorrent1: Soon you will essentially be buying a blank disk for $60 then have to immediately pay for a DLC to play the game


No, you'll buy the game new and there will be a code for the DLC.  $60 buys you the whole game.

If you buy the game used, you'll have to pay to get the DLC.
 
2013-06-20 10:48:45 AM

scottydoesntknow: As much as I don't like the Ouya (just seems way too gimmicky), I wouldn't want to subject them to that. Maybe he could go work for Hasbro and figure out a way to implement additional content for board games. I'm thinking dog armor for the little dog piece in Monopoly.


Now that's an idea I can get behind.  Although we've got to make sure he can't do jack to Transformers.
 
2013-06-20 10:49:20 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but the developers could have their DRM, in a way.


Make games with awesome multiplayer and high replay value.    Then the players will connect to the internet nearly every day and won't trade, sell or loan the games!

I know, I know, that's crazy talk.  It's WAY better to shovel out crap you can finish in 4 hours, promise some DLC that usually just makes the game worse, and complain when people pick it up out of the bargain bin when they finally get around to deciding to give it a try.
 
2013-06-20 10:53:20 AM

Larry Mahnken: No, you'll buy the game new and there will be a code for the DLC.  $60 buys you the whole game.
If you buy the game used, you'll have to pay to get the DLC.


Really unlikely.   That was the hook for Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2 (you got Shale and Zaeed respectively free for buying new) and it was a pretty good idea.   Between those two games and Mass Effect 3 the policy changed, you'll remember that the lore bomb dropping DLC character in that game was not included in the "base package" version of the game so you can't really consider it a hook to buy new vs used.

So what you are suggesting is the publishers will revert to the earlier policy.
 
2013-06-20 10:53:55 AM

Lexx: AdamK: Tyrone Slothrop: Vaneshi: Mike_LowELL: In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.

In the case of the Xboned he is actually correct.  Which I admit is  minor miracle we should make a note of (under 'a stopped clock' probably).  Microsoft have already said: No publisher = Not on XBox.  It's generally intimated that this means a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft and so on rather than some enterprising indie who is both developer and makes a one man band publishing company.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiment about the mans line of thought though.  He's almost as bonkers as Carmack's "DirectX is awesome" splurge... whilst all of his peers are busy brushing up on OpenGL due to the portability of it.

From what I've read, if you want to sell a downloadable game on the XBone, you have to have two games for sale at retail, which screws over indie devs.

yeah, you can't self-publish on any microsoft console despite the industry going in that direction

That's why I have high hopes in the Ouya, and Steambox.


Well, grab some beers or whatever you like because I got a feeling your hopes are going to be let down with both of those.
 
2013-06-20 10:56:25 AM

Egoy3k: Well this should be a surprise to no one. Thanks a lot internet nerds you farked it up for the rest of us.


lol

Corporate greed and a target market that has absolutely no impulse control farked it up for the rest of us.  If MS and the game publishers got what they wanted you'd still see an initial price point of $60+, charging fees for used games, sports and other games moving to a yearly subscription model, purposely nerfing games to promote DLC, the whole shebang.  For once people actually stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and now they're the bad guys?
 
2013-06-20 11:00:40 AM

taxandspend: Carth: Jim from Saint Paul: The majority of gamers are of the dilluted thought proces that all games cost $60. Especially your CoD gamers. They would bristle at the idea of paying $80.00 for a game up front, yet will buy 4 map packs at $15 a piece while barely flinching.

Call of Duty Black Ops 2 hit $1 billion dollars in 15 days. Faster than Avatar or any other entertainment product in history. Video games are making more money today than ever and the industry as a whole is bigger. AAA game do cost more to make you're absolutely right. They are also earn more than ever before. If you can find any Atari or SNES game that made $1 billion i'd love to hear about it.

In 1993 Street Fighter supposedly made 1.5 billion.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter_II

Also, I'll just leave this fine quote from Miyamoto here:
"We're more worried about piracy and we think used games are a whole other story. In fact, from our perspective you want to create a game that people will want to keep and keep playing for a long time. That's the approach that we always take and that's the best way to avoid used games."

There's a reason why Nintendo games, especially Mario games, have a ridiculously high trade in rate at Gamestop.


Interesting link I didn't know that about SFII. Still it took the game about 2 years to do what COD did in about 2 weeks.

I love Nintendo games I just wish their consoles had half way decent third party support.
 
2013-06-20 11:01:03 AM

Carth: terminalx: Dr Dreidel: Nefarious: FarkGrudge: //Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway

You mean this?  You can turn the Kinect sensor off unless you are playing a game that requires it.  I'm sure the sufficiently paranoid will say it could be on even when it's off.  Microsoft just decided they wanted to sell you one this generation.

If it's listening for "Xbox on", it's listening. Any bets on how long it takes to hack? I'll set the over-under at 5min for someone to get a feed from a "powered down" console.

// $10 to Child's Play on the under; any takers?


If you're that paranoid you could unplug it... including the Kinect with Xbox gives developers the incentive to utilize instead of it being just an accessory.

Can you actually unplug it and play games? Last I heard it needed to be plugged in and "functional" for the system to work .


Nope, last I heard it had to be plugged in to play games. Not sure about TV or movies. But it's just one more thing in the way of your game experience. At least a constant internet connection is off the table, but what if your Kinect breaks? Gotta spend another $80-100 on a peripheral you don't ever use just to play the games? No thanks...
 
2013-06-20 11:05:23 AM
Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I am looking to evaluate the features of each console before deciding if and which one I will purchase. I see Xbox One's ability to cloud-compute game elements as a tremendous advantage in terms of gaming experiences that the platform can deliver. It opens the door for seemingly unlimited processing power. Coupled with the interactive TV piece (whatever they're calling it), the ability to use voice to do just about anything, and the multi-tasking features, it seems like for how I use my console, these are clear advantages over my understanding of PS4's offerings.

Am I missing something in terms of console features and abilities?

For Kinect, I don't really care for it's video use for games, but from what I've read, privacy and enabling of Kinect sensor will be configurable. It will always listen I think? Isn't that good for when I want to use my console? They're not giving Kinect data to the NSA. These "big brother" boogeyman arguments about Kinect are kind of worrisome just in terms of how little people seem to understand about privacy and data.
 
2013-06-20 11:05:56 AM

FarkGrudge: narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!

And you know what, even IF the "razorblade" model became more prevalent, that'd still be better than the original proposal--because at least you own "something" you can share with your friends or siblings.  More often than not, anyone who's sharing disks probably isn't interested in the "true ending" or the competitive multiplayer component.  In either model, the publisher is still going to try and extort you (and all used-gamers) the most they possibly can--if you think they weren't going to offer DLC or "expansions" under the original model, you're delusional.

Bottom-line:  first-sale doctrine should still apply, especially to "walled-garden" environments like a console--since the investment to the console is fairly steep to enough people (at least enough where you won't likely buy both consoles), it's probably the best way to keep costs competitive, as they are also competing against existing prior-art (ie, used-games).

/If they try to take DLC to the extreme again where you can basically only share a demo version of the game, then the outrage will flood in again (just like it did now)
//Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway


Kinect can be turned off. "
You can turn the Kinect sensor OFF by going to System Settings > Kinect Settings and choosing to turn the sensor OFF. The Kinect sensor hardware does not have a physical OFF switch. Alternatively you can always unplug the Kinect sensor from the console when it's not in use. When using the Kinect Settings to turn the sensor OFF, all processors on the device that are used to stream audio, video, or depth data to the console are in fact turned OFF."  http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollection 2">http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollec tion 2The level of misinformation is insane right now, I don't see how anyone can claim PS4 won, when those people don't have a working system and are basing their opinion on outdated/wrong information.

DLC is not going anywhere, it will only get worse, especially as more games become online only. In some ways it is the price you pay for wanting a game now, not 6 months from now, but generally its a cash grab. Some DLC is more like an expansion (GTA IV, Fallout, etc) so I can't say it's all bad. I do hate the constant release of cars for money from Turn 10 though, and buying outfits and guns is stupid imo.
 
2013-06-20 11:08:02 AM

quiotu: Nope, last I heard it had to be plugged in to play games. Not sure about TV or movies. But it's just one more thing in the way of your game experience. At least a constant internet connection is off the table, but what if your Kinect breaks? Gotta spend another $80-100 on a peripheral you don't ever use just to play the games? No thanks...


Wait - they're making Kinect mandatory, but it's not built into the console? It's still a separate piece of equipment to buy?

GFY, Microsoft. No, wait - shove this "under-$200" Surface (with its $130 keyboard) up your ass, push it up there real good with a broom-handle made of recycled Windows ME CDs, mount the whole setup on a piston attached to your shoes, and walk back to Redmond. So you can keep farking yourself throughout the whole journey.

// I'm in DC, so that's a long walk
 
2013-06-20 11:10:13 AM

AmazinTim: Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I am looking to evaluate the features of each console before deciding if and which one I will purchase. I see Xbox One's ability to cloud-compute game elements as a tremendous advantage in terms of gaming experiences that the platform can deliver. It opens the door for seemingly unlimited processing power. Coupled with the interactive TV piece (whatever they're calling it), the ability to use voice to do just about anything, and the multi-tasking features, it seems like for how I use my console, these are clear advantages over my understanding of PS4's offerings.

Am I missing something in terms of console features and abilities?

For Kinect, I don't really care for it's video use for games, but from what I've read, privacy and enabling of Kinect sensor will be configurable. It will always listen I think? Isn't that good for when I want to use my console? They're not giving Kinect data to the NSA. These "big brother" boogeyman arguments about Kinect are kind of worrisome just in terms of how little people seem to understand about privacy and data.


PS4 has the same cloud computing power as the XBO. In fact since sony runs gaikai  they have more experience doing it. Unfortunately, because of latency cloud computing for games can only be used for so many things, also since developers have to plan around not having that computing power they make games assuming it isn't there.

Voice command in games will be pretty useless for anything with a mutiplayer component since unless you enjoy hearing 16 other people saying "xbox change guns" every three seconds. Voice control of your tv is slower than using a remote which is why it never caught on before now.
 
2013-06-20 11:11:00 AM
Dawnguard was decent.

Dragonborn was awesome.

DLC can be done well.
 
2013-06-20 11:11:16 AM

Dr Dreidel: quiotu: Nope, last I heard it had to be plugged in to play games. Not sure about TV or movies. But it's just one more thing in the way of your game experience. At least a constant internet connection is off the table, but what if your Kinect breaks? Gotta spend another $80-100 on a peripheral you don't ever use just to play the games? No thanks...

Wait - they're making Kinect mandatory, but it's not built into the console? It's still a separate piece of equipment to buy?

GFY, Microsoft. No, wait - shove this "under-$200" Surface (with its $130 keyboard) up your ass, push it up there real good with a broom-handle made of recycled Windows ME CDs, mount the whole setup on a piston attached to your shoes, and walk back to Redmond. So you can keep farking yourself throughout the whole journey.

// I'm in DC, so that's a long walk


It comes with the console but it isn't built into it. Since it is required for the system to work presumably if the Kinect breaks (cat knocks it over or whatever) you'd need to replace it (buy a new one) before you could play games again.
 
2013-06-20 11:14:14 AM

Carth: PS4 has the same cloud computing power as the XBO. In fact since sony runs gaikai  they have more experience doing it. Unfortunately, because of latency cloud computing for games can only be used for so many things, also since developers have to plan around not having that computing power they make games assuming it isn't there.


Ah, I thought Gaiku was for OnLive-style full game streaming so you could play back-catalog games or sample games before you buy them (another cool feature). I didn't know it was being leveraged the same way MS is positioning how developers can "outsource" certain game elements to the cloud. Did they mention that in their presser?
 
2013-06-20 11:15:12 AM

Carth: It comes with the console but it isn't built into it. Since it is required for the system to work presumably if the Kinect breaks (cat knocks it over or whatever) you'd need to replace it (buy a new one) before you could play games again.


Ah.

Well, then they don't have to shove the keyboard up there for the walk. The rest, though - get on that, Ballmer.

// so it's basically a $100 controller I'll never use, but MUST replace if it breaks?
 
2013-06-20 11:15:35 AM

Ajanu: Kinect can be turned off. "
You can turn the Kinect sensor OFF by going to System Settings > Kinect Settings and choosing to turn the sensor OFF. The Kinect sensor hardware does not have a physical OFF switch. Alternatively you can always unplug the Kinect sensor from the console when it's not in use. When using the Kinect Settings to turn the sensor OFF, all processors on the device that are used to stream audio, video, or depth data to the console are in fact turned OFF."  http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollection 2">http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollec tion 2The level of misinformation is insane right now, I don't see how anyone can claim PS4 won, when those people don't have a working system and are basing their opinion on outdated/wrong information.


Why do I HAVE to have a kinect though? Why do I have to pay for hardware that I have zero interest in ever using?
 
2013-06-20 11:16:33 AM

Rev.K: Dawnguard was decent.

Dragonborn was awesome.

DLC can be done well.


Dawnguard was pretty weak for a DLC. They added a couple cool locations and features, but overall it seemed more of the same.

Dragonborn was badass and exactly what a DLC should be. A new world open for exploration.

My favorite will always be Old World Blues for New Vegas. That felt like a standalone game in itself (humor, baddies, everything) and the perks/items were awesome. Add in the fact that you got a fully functional house you could teleport to at any time, and it was my favorite.

Red Dead's Undead Nightmare also deserves mention, although you could consider it more of an expansion than just DLC.
 
2013-06-20 11:17:12 AM

AmazinTim: Carth: PS4 has the same cloud computing power as the XBO. In fact since sony runs gaikai  they have more experience doing it. Unfortunately, because of latency cloud computing for games can only be used for so many things, also since developers have to plan around not having that computing power they make games assuming it isn't there.

Ah, I thought Gaiku was for OnLive-style full game streaming so you could play back-catalog games or sample games before you buy them (another cool feature). I didn't know it was being leveraged the same way MS is positioning how developers can "outsource" certain game elements to the cloud. Did they mention that in their presser?


Sony mentioned they will have cloud computing online by 2014, post conference they said "early 2014". Both companies will do streaming for Backwards compatibility and have the option for developers to do things like lighting in game if they want. Since the PS4 is significantly more powerful than the XBO and was designed around gaming not as an entertainment console it seems to be the better choice if you're looking for a dedicated gaming system where as XBO would be a more all in one box.
 
2013-06-20 11:18:01 AM
Dr Dreidel:

// so it's basically a $100 controller I'll never use, but MUST replace if it breaks?

Yup. that is much clearer than what I said.
 
2013-06-20 11:18:53 AM

PerilousApricot: Jim from Saint Paul: PerilousApricot: HotWingConspiracy: digistil: HotWingConspiracy: Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony said publishers will have the same DRM abilities as they have with the PS3.

Not sure, but they already have the freedom to chisel you. It's like with ME3, you cannot access the online portion unless you pay EA, and you can't "complete" (you can finish, but not get the good ending) unless you do the multiplayer stuff. So if you get a used copy, EA is getting that cash if you're interested in completing the game.

Joke's on you, there is no good ending to ME3

His defintion of "good" was more then likely "coherent".

And you may not like the 4 choices (Yes there are 4), it at least explains what all the other characters are doing and why.

Are we talking about the original ending?


You know, i re-read that and I was 100% wrong. I thought they were mentioing needing the "directors cut" ending.

THey were not. My bad.

They were suggesting that you HAD to do the MP stuff to get your galactic readiness and such to a point where you could get the "best" ending.

They are incorrect as I got the best ending without touching MP once. It's an *option* not a requirement. Do all the little side missions and you will be just fine.
 
2013-06-20 11:20:19 AM

lousyskater: Ajanu: Kinect can be turned off. "
You can turn the Kinect sensor OFF by going to System Settings > Kinect Settings and choosing to turn the sensor OFF. The Kinect sensor hardware does not have a physical OFF switch. Alternatively you can always unplug the Kinect sensor from the console when it's not in use. When using the Kinect Settings to turn the sensor OFF, all processors on the device that are used to stream audio, video, or depth data to the console are in fact turned OFF."  http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollection 2">http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Kinect/PrivacyandOnlineSafety#DataCollec tion 2The level of misinformation is insane right now, I don't see how anyone can claim PS4 won, when those people don't have a working system and are basing their opinion on outdated/wrong information.

Why do I HAVE to have a kinect though? Why do I have to pay for hardware that I have zero interest in ever using?


I thought someone at MS stated that Kinect would have to be on for XBOne since there isn't a big Xbox button on the controller, so the only way to really power up the XBOne was to use voice command thru Kinect.
 
2013-06-20 11:21:58 AM
If the industry is doomed without invasive, draconian DRM then, well, maybe the industry <b>should</b> be doomed.
 
2013-06-20 11:26:06 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: They were suggesting that you HAD to do the MP stuff to get your galactic readiness and such to a point where you could get the "best" ending.

They are incorrect as I got the best ending without touching MP once. It's an *option* not a requirement. Do all the little side missions and you will be just fine.


To be fair, the ability to beat the game on the best ending without touching MP only came out through a patch. Originally the Galactic readiness rating for the best ending was set at (IIRC) 4000. Yet the most war assets that were available were 7500, and not playing MP cut that in half to 3750. A patch they issued with the Extended Cut lowered it to around 3100 so it could be done without touching MP.
 
2013-06-20 11:30:37 AM

scottydoesntknow: Jim from Saint Paul: They were suggesting that you HAD to do the MP stuff to get your galactic readiness and such to a point where you could get the "best" ending.

They are incorrect as I got the best ending without touching MP once. It's an *option* not a requirement. Do all the little side missions and you will be just fine.

To be fair, the ability to beat the game on the best ending without touching MP only came out through a patch. Originally the Galactic readiness rating for the best ending was set at (IIRC) 4000. Yet the most war assets that were available were 7500, and not playing MP cut that in half to 3750. A patch they issued with the Extended Cut lowered it to around 3100 so it could be done without touching MP.


If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".
 
2013-06-20 11:37:54 AM

Carth: Sony mentioned they will have cloud computing online by 2014, post conference they said "early 2014". Both companies will do streaming for Backwards compatibility and have the option for developers to do things like lighting in game if they want. Since the PS4 is significantly more powerful than the XBO and was designed around gaming not as an entertainment console it seems to be the better choice if you're looking for a dedicated gaming system where as XBO would be a more all in one box.


All in one entertainment box works for me I think. I don't have the time to dedicate to gaming 20+ hours a week anymore and the TV functionality/voice commands seem like a nice step forward. I have to take the pulse of my friends to see what they are thinking, since we are scattered across the country and get on once or twice a week to game together, it's important we are on the same system.

I don't have time to join clans or make  lot of e-friends, so my priority 1st is being able to game with my IRL friends across the country. It will probably be XBO at the moment since Live has historically been a better multiplayer experience and we play a lot of Minecraft there, but we haven't really seen PS4's interface or heard that much about how that will work I don't think.

The only really stinker about Microsoft for me is that we they don't Naughty Dog games which are supposed to be great.
 
2013-06-20 11:38:33 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".


Then I'm not really sure how you did it. I did everything possible and still had to play a few matches of MP to get my readiness up.
 
2013-06-20 11:42:12 AM

AdamK: RedPhoenix122: TheOriginalEd: Here's a thought bleszinski. how about you NOT treat your consumers like criminals?

Probably getting business advice from the MPAA.

the video game industry for awhile really wanted to ape everything the movie industry did/is doing

AAA game development by its very nature is doomed tho, and was never sustainable like the movie model is

cliffyb is in la-la-land over used games thinking "if only video games were like movies, then there'd be secondary or third waves of income instead of needing to recoup costs all at once in the first month!" well that's the issue - those second or third waves of sales only come at deep discounts, and furthermore said deep discounts are coming not just later but very quickly too - in the end the value of AAA games is dropping like a rock among consumers and no amount of banning used games will change that

be happy there's growth in gaming even if it's in cheaper games


I see the lack of controls over first-wave sales as a problem with the video game industry as well, but I think controls on the used market will help to alleviate the issue.

Movies see most of their profits during their theatre runs.  When hype is high, people will spend money to experience the movie in a format that's not tradeable (they can try to record and trade the experience, but the FBI doesn't look too kindly on cam rips).  Every theatre customer equals income for the studios.  DVD sales are just icing on the cake months after the hype has died down (I just did a little research and The Hobbit earned $300 mil in box office revenue but only an estimated $30 mil in DVD sales).

With games under the current model however, the only guaranteed income that a publisher can bank on is pre-orders and midnight releases.  If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.  This is why we're seeing an increase in pre-order bonuses and multiplayer tacked onto games where it doesn't make sense, to encourage people to pre-order and hold on to their games after finishing the single player experience.

I honestly think that before the next gen is finished we'll see publishers pushing a 'theatrical release' type system for physical copies.  If you want to play a game in the first, say 14 days after release, you'll need to buy a new copy.  A used disc will just play a demo of the first level or something until the window has elapsed.  It seems to be the only way for publishers to actually capture the income from the initial hype without funneling that money into Gamestop's coffers.
 
2013-06-20 11:43:14 AM

scottydoesntknow: Jim from Saint Paul: If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".

Then I'm not really sure how you did it. I did everything possible and still had to play a few matches of MP to get my readiness up.


I'm just that awesome apparently!
 
2013-06-20 11:47:54 AM

King Something: Tyrone Slothrop: Vaneshi: Mike_LowELL: In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.

In the case of the Xboned he is actually correct.  Which I admit is  minor miracle we should make a note of (under 'a stopped clock' probably).  Microsoft have already said: No publisher = Not on XBox.  It's generally intimated that this means a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft and so on rather than some enterprising indie who is both developer and makes a one man band publishing company.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiment about the mans line of thought though.  He's almost as bonkers as Carmack's "DirectX is awesome" splurge... whilst all of his peers are busy brushing up on OpenGL due to the portability of it.

From what I've read, if you want to sell a downloadable game on the XBone, you have to have two games for sale at retail, which screws over indie devs.

I guess this means that the market for vertical-scrolling magical girl-themed hat simulators will not be tapped by the Xbone.


State of Decay, the Fastest Selling game on XBLA, is from a company with 0 games at retail.

(As an aside, XB0x 360 owners, this IS the zombie apocalypse game you want. Coming 'Soon' to Steam)
 
2013-06-20 11:48:31 AM

taxandspend: Yes, that is only the 360 version, my bad.

PsyLord: I thought someone at MS stated that Kinect would have to be on for XBOne since there isn't a big Xbox button on the controller, so the only way to really power up the XBOne was to use voice command thru Kinect.


"When the system is off, it's only listening for the single voice command -- "Xbox On," and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you'll need to turn it back on for these experiences."

This is the link for the One, no mention of unplugging it. http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy

2 reasons Kinect is bundled I think. The first is because people in the tech industry think we want to talk to our devices and use gestures for everything. Apple, Android, all smart TV makers, PC makers etc, MS is just jumping on the bandwagon. The other is so that anyone who wants to use Kinect in their game design will know that the person buying the One version will have access to it. Remains to be seen how much it will be used, and how good games can be with it, but being an optional extra it would be skipped by many/most people.

To all the people saying they will use paper or tape to cover the camera, you realize it has an IR camera right? So you need something thicker than paper to hide your crack smoking or fornicating from the camera.
 
2013-06-20 11:49:11 AM

Carth: AmazinTim: Carth: PS4 has the same cloud computing power as the XBO. In fact since sony runs gaikai  they have more experience doing it. Unfortunately, because of latency cloud computing for games can only be used for so many things, also since developers have to plan around not having that computing power they make games assuming it isn't there.

Ah, I thought Gaiku was for OnLive-style full game streaming so you could play back-catalog games or sample games before you buy them (another cool feature). I didn't know it was being leveraged the same way MS is positioning how developers can "outsource" certain game elements to the cloud. Did they mention that in their presser?

Sony mentioned they will have cloud computing online by 2014, post conference they said "early 2014". Both companies will do streaming for Backwards compatibility and have the option for developers to do things like lighting in game if they want. Since the PS4 is significantly more powerful than the XBO and was designed around gaming not as an entertainment console it seems to be the better choice if you're looking for a dedicated gaming system where as XBO would be a more all in one box.


Truthfully, I haven't seen anything from Microsoft talking about backwards compatibility through streaming.  Gaikai was announced a while ago, but I don't remember Microsoft ever announcing anything for backwards compatibility, only that the Xbox One wouldn't have it.  I'd love a citation if they've mentioned it somewhere.

It'd even the playing field a bit if OnLive was being used on the Xbox One, but I never heard anything about it so far.
 
2013-06-20 11:53:31 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: scottydoesntknow: Jim from Saint Paul: They were suggesting that you HAD to do the MP stuff to get your galactic readiness and such to a point where you could get the "best" ending.

They are incorrect as I got the best ending without touching MP once. It's an *option* not a requirement. Do all the little side missions and you will be just fine.

To be fair, the ability to beat the game on the best ending without touching MP only came out through a patch. Originally the Galactic readiness rating for the best ending was set at (IIRC) 4000. Yet the most war assets that were available were 7500, and not playing MP cut that in half to 3750. A patch they issued with the Extended Cut lowered it to around 3100 so it could be done without touching MP.

If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".


Your statement cannot be accurate, unless you altered your save file.

The "best ending" includes a teaser implying that Shepard survived the "Destruction" ending. The teaser is played only if a certain Effective Military Strength (4000) was attained. Attaining that Effective Military Strength was impossible -- as confirmed by examination of game data -- without using multiplayer to either increase readiness above 50% or to increase the base military strength through importation of level 20 multiplayer characters. Without multiplayer, the required strength was attainable only by using a save editor to alter asset values.

Bioware had claimed that absolutely all single player content would be available without requiring multiplayer bonuses. Gamers who examined game data proved their claim to be a lie. As such, the "Extended Cut" release reduced the required Effective Military Strength to a value attainable even with only 50% readiness.
 
2013-06-20 11:57:16 AM

quiotu: Carth: AmazinTim: Carth: PS4 has the same cloud computing power as the XBO. In fact since sony runs gaikai  they have more experience doing it. Unfortunately, because of latency cloud computing for games can only be used for so many things, also since developers have to plan around not having that computing power they make games assuming it isn't there.

Ah, I thought Gaiku was for OnLive-style full game streaming so you could play back-catalog games or sample games before you buy them (another cool feature). I didn't know it was being leveraged the same way MS is positioning how developers can "outsource" certain game elements to the cloud. Did they mention that in their presser?

Sony mentioned they will have cloud computing online by 2014, post conference they said "early 2014". Both companies will do streaming for Backwards compatibility and have the option for developers to do things like lighting in game if they want. Since the PS4 is significantly more powerful than the XBO and was designed around gaming not as an entertainment console it seems to be the better choice if you're looking for a dedicated gaming system where as XBO would be a more all in one box.

Truthfully, I haven't seen anything from Microsoft talking about backwards compatibility through streaming.  Gaikai was announced a while ago, but I don't remember Microsoft ever announcing anything for backwards compatibility, only that the Xbox One wouldn't have it.  I'd love a citation if they've mentioned it somewhere.

It'd even the playing field a bit if OnLive was being used on the Xbox One, but I never heard anything about it so far.


I don't think MS has said they are going to do streaming backwards compatibilty yet. People are speculating that Hyper-V would be used. Sony has come out and said they'll do streaming backwards compatibility for certain titles in 2014.
 
2013-06-20 11:57:18 AM
people biatching about kinect have never enjoyed the pure awesome of simply yelling at your tv to pause something without having to fire a controller back up.
i find myself doing the same at my PC when im watching some torrented video.
xbox pause! shiat... i have to actually click something.
xbox play!  shiat... i have to actually click something.
ive been a gamer since atari age and the voice commands on kinect are convenient as hell when getting up to make another drink in the kitchen while watching something on any of the video streaming services.  also glad they rescinded their DRM bullshiat.
still gonna get both.
also, dance games and fruit ninja on kinect are insanely fun in party settings.
 
2013-06-20 11:58:59 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: scottydoesntknow: Jim from Saint Paul: If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".

Then I'm not really sure how you did it. I did everything possible and still had to play a few matches of MP to get my readiness up.

I'm just that awesome apparently!


Did you play the ios/android game? That got you enough points for the best ending without multiplayer before the patch.
 
2013-06-20 12:00:13 PM

Ajanu: So you need something thicker than paper to hide your crack smoking or fornicating from the camera.


I think you misunderstand - those are the things we want the camera to see. It's those times when we set up the living room to reenact To Wong Foo... with the dog & cat that we may want to keep private.

But none of that explains why devs want to spend that much more time (and money) to develop Kinect stuff for their games when there are other formats for which that will be useless. PC, for example - or PS4. Any dev who wants to make a multiplatform game (which I guess is going to be a smaller and smaller number now?) is stuck with that.

So what I think will happen is what (I think) I've been seeing thus far - a raft of Kinect-only games (that is, games that are purpose-built - they have a niche market for Just Dance and Fitness whatevers, but how is Wii doing on that, hmm?), some features that are nods to the Kinect (like last year's Madden from what I gather) without affecting gameplay otherwise, and most games which will ignore the capability entirely.

For what had the potential to be a game-changer (no pun intended, but I kind of like how that works), MS has totally screwed up its release by making Kinect more about revenue-generation schemes in this release than about use in gameplay.

// and if we keep pushing, I foresee MS making Kinect tethering the hill they die on
// for some stupid reason (probably TV/movie rental charges)
 
2013-06-20 12:01:44 PM

Dimensio: Jim from Saint Paul: scottydoesntknow: Jim from Saint Paul: They were suggesting that you HAD to do the MP stuff to get your galactic readiness and such to a point where you could get the "best" ending.

They are incorrect as I got the best ending without touching MP once. It's an *option* not a requirement. Do all the little side missions and you will be just fine.

To be fair, the ability to beat the game on the best ending without touching MP only came out through a patch. Originally the Galactic readiness rating for the best ending was set at (IIRC) 4000. Yet the most war assets that were available were 7500, and not playing MP cut that in half to 3750. A patch they issued with the Extended Cut lowered it to around 3100 so it could be done without touching MP.

If you mean the 1GB, downloadable adjusted ending then that was not my experience. Again, I didn't touch MP once before I beat the game. I beat the game months before that file was available to download. I still had the "best ending".

Your statement cannot be accurate, unless you altered your save file.

The "best ending" includes a teaser implying that Shepard survived the "Destruction" ending. The teaser is played only if a certain Effective Military Strength (4000) was attained. Attaining that Effective Military Strength was impossible -- as confirmed by examination of game data -- without using multiplayer to either increase readiness above 50% or to increase the base military strength through importation of level 20 multiplayer characters. Without multiplayer, the required strength was attainable only by using a save editor to alter asset values.

Bioware had claimed that absolutely all single player content would be available without requiring multiplayer bonuses. Gamers who examined game data proved their claim to be a lie. As such, the "Extended Cut" release reduced the required Effective Military Strength to a value attainable even with only 50% readiness.


Dude, I swear I beat the game before the extended cut as I went to watch Fark be angrey about it. I swear I didn't use MP. Maybe some other patch BEFORE the EC was released did it, as I didn;t have the game for about 2 weeks after the release. It just couldn;t have been the EC patch. I beat the frickin game and got gaspy breath Shepard.
 
2013-06-20 12:09:38 PM
I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY.

You've left this poor Xbox One employee a shamble of his former self.   Read for yourself

Here's an excerpt:

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library.
[...]
When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game.

/this is an unverified blog post
//could be fake
 
2013-06-20 12:16:13 PM
1. CliffyB has been, and always shall be one of the Rob Liefelds of video games.

2. I'm still keeping my PS4 preorder because the Xbox One is $100 more and that gets me features I will NEVER use. I don't subscribe to cable or watch broadcast TV, so the pass-through is useless. I don't like or care about motion control, so the Kinect is useless. The one non-game feature I might like-- Netflix-- requires a $60 annual subscription on top of my Netflix subscription, so I'll stick with my HTPC or Roku for that.

3. I'm also getting an Ouya, and will enjoy new exclusive games in the months leading up to December. I'll also have my pile of retro games via emus, and spend some tinkering with XBMC on Ouya. And yes, the Ouya IS different from an Android stick or Android mini-PC. Many games will be exclusives, they'll all be optimized for the Ouya (controller-based, and taking advantage of a CPU/GPU that draws AC power, has a cooling fan, and doesn't need to dedicate anything to phone/tablet background processes.)

4. The only way I'd consider the Xbox One is if they sold a version without Kinect being required. Period. I'm not interested in it. I don't want it. MS can therefore keep it.
 
2013-06-20 12:16:55 PM

Ajanu: I don't see how anyone can claim PS4 won, when those people don't have a working system and are basing their opinion on outdated/wrong information.


You think it matters whether the information used to make decisions is up-to-date and accurate?

It doesn't matter which product is objectively better.  It only matter which product is perceived as better, and Microsoft has been doing a crap job of managing perception of their product.
 
2013-06-20 12:17:39 PM
The guy responsible for Gears of War has something to say about tacked-on multiplayer and DLC. Which is kind of like Jean-Paul Akayesu having something to say about ethnic cleansing, but whatevs, we'd better all stop and listen anyway.
 
2013-06-20 12:20:41 PM

CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.


If somebody's returning a game to Gamestop within 48 hours of obtaining it, it probably means the game was shyte and the publisher barely even deserves the revenue they got from the first time it was purchased, much less any additional revenue for the next sucker who falls for the hype.
 
2013-06-20 12:21:25 PM

CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.


If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.
 
2013-06-20 12:21:45 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Dude, I swear I beat the game before the extended cut as I went to watch Fark be angrey about it. I swear I didn't use MP. Maybe some other patch BEFORE the EC was released did it, as I didn;t have the game for about 2 weeks after the release. It just couldn;t have been the EC patch. I beat the frickin game and got gaspy breath Shepard.


Many individuals on the Bioware official forums issued the same claim. Those who had actually examined the game files requested screenshots of the war assets listing. Three types of responses occurred:

1) No response at all
2) A screenshot showing a galactic readiness above 50% (of screenshots given, this was the most common) despite the player claiming never to have touched multiplayer or the iPad tie-in game.
3) A screenshot showing a particular war asset with a score higher than was specified in the game files, indicating an altered game data file (a game "mod" had been released to adjust certain aspects of the game, which included an adjustment of war asset scores; all screenshots showing inflated asset values were consistent with the alterations of the mod).

A response not provided: an actual screenshot showing war asset scores consistent with established in-game scores (derived from game data files) with a total that added up to 4000.

Following each patch prior to the "Extended Cut" release, players tested and confirmed that the EMS requirement for the "breathe" teaser had not changed.
 
2013-06-20 12:26:27 PM

red5ish: If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.


No, the problem in that circumstance is the moronic gamer who willfully takes it up the ass from a retailer instead of eBaying it, or selling it to a friend or acquaintance, at a competitive price and simply pocketing the difference.
 
2013-06-20 12:31:28 PM
abhorrent1

Soon you will essentially be buying a blank disk for $60 then have to immediately pay for a DLC to play the game

I think they are hoping for this..
 
2013-06-20 12:33:25 PM

Lexx: Seriously people, buy an Ouya


You mean that cube thing with 1GB of memory and a tegra 3 CPU? Yeah, that thing can't even compete with my farking tablet. It's a joke. Angry Birds and Cut the Rope are games you play sitting on the shiatter, not sitting on a couch.
 
2013-06-20 12:35:23 PM

Cytokine Storm: I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY.

You've left this poor Xbox One employee a shamble of his former self.   Read for yourself

Here's an excerpt:

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library.
[...]
When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game.

/this is an unverified blog post
//could be fake


That is a pretty interesting read. At least as much as that guy knows, it'll still exists for downloaded games. I hope that is true.
 
2013-06-20 12:36:12 PM

that bosnian sniper: red5ish: If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.

No, the problem in that circumstance is the moronic gamer who willfully takes it up the ass from a retailer instead of eBaying it, or selling it to a friend or acquaintance, at a competitive price and simply pocketing the difference.


I was looking at it from the publisher's point of view, that they can't blame the ability to trade in or re-sell a game for loss of revenue during the "hyped" early sales period. If they publish games that are worth keeping they won't have many consumers trading or re-selling the games. If a publisher puts out a such a crappy game that consumers immediately turn around and sell it, by whatever means, the problem is that the publisher put out a crappy game.
 
2013-06-20 12:37:04 PM

Cytokine Storm: I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY.

You've left this poor Xbox One employee a shamble of his former self.   Read for yourself

Here's an excerpt:

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library.
[...]
When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game.

/this is an unverified blog post
//could be fake


What the hell is the point of having "Shared" games if they can only play it 15-60 minutes? I'd rather just give them the disc so they can play it as long as they want. If they like it they can buy me a new copy on amazon and keep the one i sent them.
 
2013-06-20 12:41:08 PM

that bosnian sniper: red5ish: If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.

No, the problem in that circumstance is the moronic gamer who willfully takes it up the ass from a retailer instead of eBaying it, or selling it to a friend or acquaintance, at a competitive price and simply pocketing the difference.


There's also the point that if places like GameStop get the game used so early, it's not being sold at a significant discount.  48 hours later, a new game found used is probably being sold at $55 instead of $60.  It's only sold less if it has an online pass that was already used... maybe.

I'll admit GameStop is in the best position to change used game policy, but they have to step up and do it first.  You could say they're already helping the publishers to some extent by offering more in trade-ins when people buy newly released games, which is pretty universal for them now, but they still sell that used game again and get every drop of profit.

Here's something GameStop could do that would literally make publishers shut up about used games overnight.  GameStop announces that in order to keep things fair with publishers, they will give the publisher the EXACT retail percentage they get to the publisher whenever they sell a used game of theirs.  The percentage will be on a publisher by publisher basis, so each return would be based exactly on what's given.  All GameStop has to say then is if the publisher doesn't like what they're getting back, they need to give them a bigger percentage up front.  After all, they're just giving them the exact same deal back, and will MATCH it if they bump it up.

And instantly, the quagmire on used games ceases to exist.
 
2013-06-20 12:52:24 PM

HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.


Yes, but now it puts the whole thing on shakier ground, legally.  With the Xbone's DRM you could argue that it was a condition of using the console, and MS is allowed to impose such conditions.  However, all of the sudden a bunch of game studios start "independently" pushing these DRM "solutions", conveniently at the same time, all that seem to coincidentally be aimed at wiping out an entire sub-industry that they have frequently argued "steals their profits"... well the words "antitrust" and "anti-competitive" aren't too hard to bring to mind.
 
2013-06-20 12:52:25 PM
Why is Egoy3k always so angry?  And wrong?
 
2013-06-20 12:59:35 PM

Cythraul: HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.

What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales? Does any other industry work that way? Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold? How about movies? Do movie studios get a cut of resales of used DVDs?


Well part of what got removed is the ability to sell used games on xbone to other people without the huge discount like you get selling to gamestop..  Sounded good to me.
 
2013-06-20 01:00:13 PM

Dimensio: Jim from Saint Paul: Dude, I swear I beat the game before the extended cut as I went to watch Fark be angrey about it. I swear I didn't use MP. Maybe some other patch BEFORE the EC was released did it, as I didn;t have the game for about 2 weeks after the release. It just couldn;t have been the EC patch. I beat the frickin game and got gaspy breath Shepard.

Many individuals on the Bioware official forums issued the same claim. Those who had actually examined the game files requested screenshots of the war assets listing. Three types of responses occurred:

1) No response at all
2) A screenshot showing a galactic readiness above 50% (of screenshots given, this was the most common) despite the player claiming never to have touched multiplayer or the iPad tie-in game.
3) A screenshot showing a particular war asset with a score higher than was specified in the game files, indicating an altered game data file (a game "mod" had been released to adjust certain aspects of the game, which included an adjustment of war asset scores; all screenshots showing inflated asset values were consistent with the alterations of the mod).

A response not provided: an actual screenshot showing war asset scores consistent with established in-game scores (derived from game data files) with a total that added up to 4000.

Following each patch prior to the "Extended Cut" release, players tested and confirmed that the EMS requirement for the "breathe" teaser had not changed.


Now I could be mis remembering what I picked to beat the game the first time. It's absolutley possible.

Not likely though.

Long Service MedalComplete Mass Effect 3 twice, or once with a Mass Effect 2 import.50 Unlocked on 5/18/2012  (so 2 months after it came out, not 2 weeks like I thought)Master and CommanderDeliver most of the Galaxy at War assets to the final conflict.50 Unlocked on 5/18/2012DefenderAttain the highest level of readiness in each theater of war.25 Unlocked on 5/18/2012THis is before the EC came out. I didn;t touch MP and I got  breathy Shep.Just purousing Google shows this was a big deal (I didn;t know that it was). All I know is that whatever was broken was fixed before 5/18/12.
 
2013-06-20 01:01:47 PM

Carth: Cytokine Storm: I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY.

You've left this poor Xbox One employee a shamble of his former self.   Read for yourself

Here's an excerpt:

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library.
[...]
When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game.

/this is an unverified blog post
//could be fake

What the hell is the point of having "Shared" games if they can only play it 15-60 minutes? I'd rather just give them the disc so they can play it as long as they want. If they like it they can buy me a new copy on amazon and keep the one i sent them.


SO these people are super sad that their DEMO feature is gone? Oh just STFU.
 
2013-06-20 01:09:29 PM

Vaneshi: Cythraul: What else could they possibly blame for the failure of their games to achieve their expected level of greed / profit margin?

This is just off the top of my head mind but...

If a game is launched with a retail focus then you've got:  Insufficient store locations, insufficient shelf space, stores failing to maximise use of marketing materials.

If a game is launched with a download focus then you got: insufficient broadband penetration.


Those aren't reasons, those are symptoms of the failure.

The worst part is, those are considered valid "reasons" in the business world.
 
2013-06-20 01:11:20 PM

Burr: Last day for FREE Torchlight on GOG.COM!!  Part of their DRM Free Summer Sale.


Yeah, I tried to pick it up and it kept coming up as $7.49 in my checkout cart.  I think something is broken there.
 
2013-06-20 01:13:51 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!

At no point did MS provide a plausable detailed plan on how the 'selling your digital copy' would actually work. They said you could do it, yet didn;t say for how much, at what times, NOTHING. Personally I was wating for those details and for them to lighten up on the 24 hour DRM restriction before deciding which system.

Don;t get all pissy with the internet for MS's lack of any discernable details on how they were going to make used games work.


Thank you! I felt like I was taking crazy pills. I was wondering where these people that were saying that this is the future of video games were getting their info. From everything I read MS had never even clarified what it meant. So when all the whiners were crying "Look what we lost!!" they didn't even know exactly what it was that was taken away beyond vague, almost assuredly not as good as they assumed, press releases.
 
2013-06-20 01:14:26 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Carth: Cytokine Storm: I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY.

You've left this poor Xbox One employee a shamble of his former self.   Read for yourself

Here's an excerpt:

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library.
[...]
When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game.

/this is an unverified blog post
//could be fake

What the hell is the point of having "Shared" games if they can only play it 15-60 minutes? I'd rather just give them the disc so they can play it as long as they want. If they like it they can buy me a new copy on amazon and keep the one i sent them.

SO these people are super sad that their DEMO feature is gone? Oh just STFU.


If that's true, the 15-60 minute play time, that completely changes my mind on the family sharing part.  It should at least allow someone in your 'circle of 10' to play the game as long as they want if you're not playing it.  Maybe give them a 15 minute timer to finish up their progress and save or whatever if you log in and start playing it.
 
2013-06-20 01:15:27 PM

poot_rootbeer: CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.

If somebody's returning a game to Gamestop within 48 hours of obtaining it, it probably means the game was shyte and the publisher barely even deserves the revenue they got from the first time it was purchased, much less any additional revenue for the next sucker who falls for the hype.


red5ish: CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.

If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.


Portal 2 single player only takes about 10 hours to beat for an average user.  Would you consider it garbage if somebody returns it after beating it?
 
2013-06-20 01:17:12 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: SO these people are super sad that their DEMO feature is gone? Oh just STFU.


I can see his point, though - if I had (and I have in the past) worked hard on a thing, from conception phase through to the nuts-and-bolts of it, I really believed in it, I felt we had addressed the concerns of our stakeholders, and watched as the PR guys totally botched it from soup to nuts, I'd be heartbroken and pissed off, too.

Of course, in my example, it was an internal IT rollout of a thing that would actually have saved everyone time and money (had they bothered to use it); XB1 is a pure revenue-generation scheme. Details, details.

// if D3 and S2 and SimCityXTREEM (or whatever) hadn't been so totally borked at release, would we have revolted against always-on as hard?
// probably, but without those examples, it'd have fallen on deaf ears
 
2013-06-20 01:20:27 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Long Service MedalComplete Mass Effect 3 twice, or once with a Mass Effect 2 import.50 Unlocked on 5/18/2012  (so 2 months after it came out, not 2 weeks like I thought)Master and CommanderDeliver most of the Galaxy at War assets to the final conflict.50 Unlocked on 5/18/2012DefenderAttain the highest level of readiness in each theater of war.25 Unlocked on 5/18/2012THis is before the EC came out. I didn;t touch MP and I got  breathy Shep.Just purousing Google shows this was a big deal (I didn;t know that it was). All I know is that whatever was broken was fixed before 5/18/12.


The "Defender" achievement is awarded for attaining a Galactic Readiness of 100%. The only methods for accomplishing such a readiness are multiplayer or linking of the iOS game. If you did not play multiplayer, then you used the iOS game, a secondary application, to boost your readiness and thus your effective military score with it.
 
2013-06-20 01:20:40 PM

Egoy3k: RyansPrivates: drjekel_mrhyde: What's the OMG all about? Don't all platforms do this already?

Yeah, I thought that was pretty much the AAA model at this point.  Take Arkham City (a pretty good game) as an example.  There were launch day DLC, that you could buy later.  There were other DLC that added characters, costumes, missions, etc.  All for the seemingly small price of $10 a piece. After a few times, you have a game that cost $100.  This is a good reason to always wait for the "Game of the Year" editions. (On a side note, how come every games seems to have a GoTY edition, even if it wasn't?)

I have a really crazy idea. You could just enjoy the game without the DLC.  I have purchased the following DLC

Red Dead Redemption undead nightmare pack
Grand theft Auto IV Lost and the Damned and The Ballad of Gay Tony
Fallout 3 and fallout NV all DLC packs
Some of the DLC for skyrim but I plan to pick up the legendary pack for the PC eventually


These are actual add-ons and were all worth the price.  If you get suckered into buying bad DLC well that's kind of shiatty but it's on you.  Don't complain online about DLC if you are stupid enough to buy shiatty products.  Do you go out and buy a shiatty CRT TV and then biatch online about how criminal it is that RCA sold you a piece of shiat TV?


The first thing I look for in a DLC is a little disclaimer in the description that says "for single player mode/campaign only". If that's not there, I don't buy it. Multiplayer doesn't interest me much at all anymore, I grew out of my CoD phase. Great single player games, however, will never get old. And devs that offer up quality, immersive, and useful DLC will get my money every single time. I was outraged that all of the Tomb Raider DLC was multiplayer, even though the blurb on it's advert on my Xbox dashboard said something along the lines of "navigate and explore all new environments". Navigate what? Explore where? On the shiatty new multiplayer maps where nothing remotely rewarding awaits? I don't think so. If they'd released a real add-on to the single player game, I would have bought it instantly.
 
2013-06-20 01:27:01 PM

yukichigai: Burr: Last day for FREE Torchlight on GOG.COM!!  Part of their DRM Free Summer Sale.

Yeah, I tried to pick it up and it kept coming up as $7.49 in my checkout cart.  I think something is broken there.


Hah, it was free this morning....

The email I got about it states "Only until June 20, 19:59 GMT", so it still should be free.  I got it yesterday for free.
 
2013-06-20 01:29:35 PM

eiger: Cythraul: HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.

What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales? Does any other industry work that way? Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold? How about movies? Do movie studios get a cut of resales of used DVDs?

Most of those other industries don't because they can't (or at least can't figure out a way to do it). A professor I know, who authors textbook, told me that the book publishers are constantly trying to think of a way of getting back the money "stolen" from them by used book sales.


Ah yes, greedy pigs complaining about they shouldn't have a hand in to begin with.
 
2013-06-20 01:30:58 PM

taxandspend: There's a reason why Nintendo games, especially Mario games, have a ridiculously high trade in rate at Gamestop.


God dammit now I have to go dig out my DS and my copy of New Super Mario Bros.

That or Mario 3.

Fark you.

Fark you so much.
 
2013-06-20 01:30:58 PM

Dimensio: Jim from Saint Paul: Long Service MedalComplete Mass Effect 3 twice, or once with a Mass Effect 2 import.50 Unlocked on 5/18/2012  (so 2 months after it came out, not 2 weeks like I thought)Master and CommanderDeliver most of the Galaxy at War assets to the final conflict.50 Unlocked on 5/18/2012DefenderAttain the highest level of readiness in each theater of war.25 Unlocked on 5/18/2012THis is before the EC came out. I didn;t touch MP and I got  breathy Shep.Just purousing Google shows this was a big deal (I didn;t know that it was). All I know is that whatever was broken was fixed before 5/18/12.

The "Defender" achievement is awarded for attaining a Galactic Readiness of 100%. The only methods for accomplishing such a readiness are multiplayer or linking of the iOS game. If you did not play multiplayer, then you used the iOS game, a secondary application, to boost your readiness and thus your effective military score with it.


Haven't touched the game in 6 months, single player in longer. I will have to falt out agree with you at this point then seeing as how I don't remember.

My apologies.
 
2013-06-20 01:31:25 PM

Burr: yukichigai: Burr: Last day for FREE Torchlight on GOG.COM!!  Part of their DRM Free Summer Sale.

Yeah, I tried to pick it up and it kept coming up as $7.49 in my checkout cart.  I think something is broken there.

Hah, it was free this morning....

The email I got about it states "Only until June 20, 19:59 GMT", so it still should be free.  I got it yesterday for free.


Ahh, apparently there was a mix up:

"We're very sorry about the newsletter mix-up. I think it's needless to say that no misinformation was intended here, however it's impossible for us to extend the giveaway, unfortunately.
Anyone who still wishes to take advantage of this offer, please send us a Support ticket using the General form until 23:59 GMT, and we will send you a code for this game: 
http://www.gog.com/support/contact/other_questions_issues;
Ideally, please use "Torchlight giveaway" as the ticket's title - this way it will be easier for us to fish out these cases and get them sorted our quickly. We're pretty swamped right now, due to the huge promo and whatnot, but we will help you ASAP."
 
2013-06-20 01:32:36 PM

yukichigai: taxandspend: There's a reason why Nintendo games, especially Mario games, have a ridiculously high trade in rate at Gamestop.

God dammit now I have to go dig out my DS and my copy of New Super Mario Bros.

That or Mario 3.

Fark you.

Fark you so much.


5 bucks on the Wii.
 
2013-06-20 01:40:15 PM

Dr Dreidel: Jim from Saint Paul: SO these people are super sad that their DEMO feature is gone? Oh just STFU.

I can see his point, though - if I had (and I have in the past) worked hard on a thing, from conception phase through to the nuts-and-bolts of it, I really believed in it, I felt we had addressed the concerns of our stakeholders, and watched as the PR guys totally botched it from soup to nuts, I'd be heartbroken and pissed off, too.

Of course, in my example, it was an internal IT rollout of a thing that would actually have saved everyone time and money (had they bothered to use it); XB1 is a pure revenue-generation scheme. Details, details.

// if D3 and S2 and SimCityXTREEM (or whatever) hadn't been so totally borked at release, would we have revolted against always-on as hard?
// probably, but without those examples, it'd have fallen on deaf ears


Right. So I can appreciate the whole "hey i worked on this" angle.

Is there more then one feature? Of course not. That's the one he is lamenting about and at the end of the day it's in no way a feature that is new. It's a frickin DEMO program. And he just whined on the internet about it. Dude is fair game.
 
2013-06-20 01:51:21 PM

CrowdSceneExtra: AdamK: RedPhoenix122: TheOriginalEd: Here's a thought bleszinski. how about you NOT treat your consumers like criminals?

Probably getting business advice from the MPAA.

the video game industry for awhile really wanted to ape everything the movie industry did/is doing

AAA game development by its very nature is doomed tho, and was never sustainable like the movie model is

cliffyb is in la-la-land over used games thinking "if only video games were like movies, then there'd be secondary or third waves of income instead of needing to recoup costs all at once in the first month!" well that's the issue - those second or third waves of sales only come at deep discounts, and furthermore said deep discounts are coming not just later but very quickly too - in the end the value of AAA games is dropping like a rock among consumers and no amount of banning used games will change that

be happy there's growth in gaming even if it's in cheaper games

I see the lack of controls over first-wave sales as a problem with the video game industry as well, but I think controls on the used market will help to alleviate the issue.

Movies see most of their profits during their theatre runs.  When hype is high, people will spend money to experience the movie in a format that's not tradeable (they can try to record and trade the experience, but the FBI doesn't look too kindly on cam rips).  Every theatre customer equals income for the studios.  DVD sales are just icing on the cake months after the hype has died down (I just did a little research and The Hobbit earned $300 mil in box office revenue but only an estimated $30 mil in DVD sales).

With games under the current model however, the only guaranteed income that a publisher can bank on is pre-orders and midnight releases.  If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income ...


well there's the problem, tacked on features and dlc hasn't significantly altered people's desire to keep games or not, but that wasn't the point of DLC/multiplayer in the first place,  the point of dlc/multiplayer is additional revenue streams from those willing to keep the game, the idea they could use this as an all-in-one tactic is simply laziness

at the end of the day people's desire to keep a game is as archaic as their desire to buy a game in the first place, it isn't something you can rely on like a commodity or subscription

as for used games, at the end of the day they provide liquidity and keep money moving, for a huge portion of the population the ability to get rid of a game is the only way they're willing to buy it in the first place - in addition to being a "free" source of money that can be exchanged for something new

i think at the end of the day the desire to emulate and compete with the market leading AAA games has led to most of the problems currently plaguing the AAA model, mid-tiers went bankrupt and those who stuck around put all their eggs in one basket, but oh noes revenue can't support it! well to be honest it all sounds like a bad investment scheme on wall street, if the industry's bleeding profusely i don't think a bandaid will fix it
 
2013-06-20 01:55:12 PM
*edit: even if you force somebody to keep a game doesn't mean they're coming back for more, there's a lot of games i've bought digitally that i've never played more than once
 
2013-06-20 02:04:02 PM

RoxtarRyan: Lexx: Seriously people, buy an Ouya

You mean that cube thing with 1GB of memory and a tegra 3 CPU? Yeah, that thing can't even compete with my farking tablet. It's a joke. Angry Birds and Cut the Rope are games you play sitting on the shiatter, not sitting on a couch.


It's $100.  And I *hate* tablets.  And if I wanted graphical fidelity, I'd buy a highend PC.  Graphical fidelity has amazingly little to do with game play.

Ouya is the answer for a viable, small price, indie gaming platform.
 
2013-06-20 02:22:24 PM

Vaneshi: Cythraul:  What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales?

Money and frankly we're at the point where something has got to give IMHO.  When a game such as Tomb Raider can sell 6 million units. top the charts for it's released platforms and still be considered a financial flop by its publisher... there is a massive problem in the industry when it comes to both budgets AND inflating sales predictions to unreasonable levels (Tomb Raider was never going to sell the expected 12 - 20 million units it just wasn't, FFS it shifting 6 million is quite remarkable).

Of course the biggest problem these companies have is that they're fast running out of people to blame for these 'screw ups'.  In the 90's it was us PC gamers who bore the brunt of their ire; we were dirty evil thieves who needed constant watching.   Except now we ARE watched constantly in an environment that is DRM heavy and generally precludes 'casual piracy' (Steam, Origin, et al) and it's this 'casual piracy' which was apparently the big problem.   So it's not us.  It must be you console people because obviously it couldn't be the publishers fault due to living in a fantasy land where every 360 owner will buy 2+ copies of your game.

Now despite second hand games being around since the days of the 2600 this has become the industries bogeyman as piracy has been wiped out *snicker*, it's second hand games which are killing off publishers and forcing them to do all of this.   They'll biatch and moan, moan and biatch, stamp their little feet and point fingers until they get exactly what they want.   Which, when you look at the XBone is doing just that.

Once used games have been killed (or heavily curtailed in the publishers mind) then a new bogeyman will dutifully be summoned to take its place as the reason video games aren't making enough money.

And I haven't even gone in to the bullshiat of Game & GameStop being 'hated' whilst publishers throw them so many farking exclusive bits of tat.

/ Every one who brought a copy of Tomb Raider should send SquareEnix a letter of apology.
// And the £30 they failed to give the company for their second copy.
// Only slightly joking.


They should be apologizing to me. That was a farking awesome game that they completely shafted on extra content. That game needed extra chapters that were single player playable, not useless multiplayer maps. Rockstar did the same damn thing with Max Payne 3 - put out a world class product and then just left it out to dry.
 
2013-06-20 02:23:15 PM

Vaneshi: Cythraul:  What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales?

Money and frankly we're at the point where something has got to give IMHO.  When a game such as Tomb Raider can sell 6 million units. top the charts for it's released platforms and still be considered a financial flop by its publisher... there is a massive problem in the industry when it comes to both budgets AND inflating sales predictions to unreasonable levels (Tomb Raider was never going to sell the expected 12 - 20 million units it just wasn't, FFS it shifting 6 million is quite remarkable).

Of course the biggest problem these companies have is that they're fast running out of people to blame for these 'screw ups'.  In the 90's it was us PC gamers who bore the brunt of their ire; we were dirty evil thieves who needed constant watching.   Except now we ARE watched constantly in an environment that is DRM heavy and generally precludes 'casual piracy' (Steam, Origin, et al) and it's this 'casual piracy' which was apparently the big problem.   So it's not us.  It must be you console people because obviously it couldn't be the publishers fault due to living in a fantasy land where every 360 owner will buy 2+ copies of your game.

Now despite second hand games being around since the days of the 2600 this has become the industries bogeyman as piracy has been wiped out *snicker*, it's second hand games which are killing off publishers and forcing them to do all of this.   They'll biatch and moan, moan and biatch, stamp their little feet and point fingers until they get exactly what they want.   Which, when you look at the XBone is doing just that.

Once used games have been killed (or heavily curtailed in the publishers mind) then a new bogeyman will dutifully be summoned to take its place as the reason video games aren't making enough money.

And I haven't even gone in to the bullshiat of Game & GameStop being 'hated' whilst publishers throw them so many farking exclusive bits of tat.

/ Every one who brought a copy of Tomb Raider should send SquareEnix a letter of apology.
// And the £30 they failed to give the company for their second copy.
// Only slightly joking.


6 million units is 400 million in revenue. Big block busters don't even usually break into a 300 million budget (Avatar was was like 237 million and had actors, sets, and cgi).

I'm pretty sure video game publishers have discovered Hollywood accounting.
 
2013-06-20 02:26:03 PM

Cytokine Storm: I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY.

You've left this poor Xbox One employee a shamble of his former self.   Read for yourself

Here's an excerpt:

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library.
[...]
When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game.

/this is an unverified blog post
//could be fake


Wow, this guy doesn't realize his own hypocrisy.  He goes into a tirade about how used games are killing the industry, and then explains how you being able to share games with 10 family members is the best thing since sliced bread.  Because that wouldn't have reduced game sales, no...not at all.  I'm sure every publisher was on board for Microsoft allowing 10 folks to share one game and not have to buy 10 copies.  But buy one used copy of anything and the world is coming to an end.

Clown shoes, Microsoft.  Clown shoes.
 
2013-06-20 02:31:59 PM
I understand game developers/programmers don't have economics degrees or anything, but they seem to fail to grasp even the obvious basic of capitalism. If you purposefully cripple your games to extort more money from your base, your base will eventually look elsewhere once a line is crossed. I guess you can play around with figuring out where that line is, but we are quickly approaching it.
 
2013-06-20 02:35:00 PM

Lexx: RoxtarRyan: Lexx: Seriously people, buy an Ouya

You mean that cube thing with 1GB of memory and a tegra 3 CPU? Yeah, that thing can't even compete with my farking tablet. It's a joke. Angry Birds and Cut the Rope are games you play sitting on the shiatter, not sitting on a couch.

It's $100.  And I *hate* tablets.  And if I wanted graphical fidelity, I'd buy a highend PC.  Graphical fidelity has amazingly little to do with game play.

Ouya is the answer for a viable, small price, indie gaming platform.


That's right, because there are currently no vendors or platforms available for indie developers using a method that isn't already available in nearly every single household. ::rolls eyes::

This is a cheap moneygrab to take advantage of people think that shiatting games are capable of having the depth of story and playability of, hell, even NES or Genesis games. And for indie developers who really want to get in the market? There are already viable ways to get your name and product out without developing for a product that is going to flop. This is going to become the new N-GAGE, or the next Virtual Boy. The developer's time and money is better spent working on a platform that already is already widespread. Making games simply for the Ouya is a complete waste. The games likely won't be able to be ported to mobile devices (or at least, easily by the end consumer) due to the use of a physical controller, the graphics won't scale very well (if at all) going from even a midrange 32" HDTV to a 4" or 5" screen, so your consumer base will be limited to the few that purchase the device. And, despite what hopeful developers dream, even fewer people are going to pay $10 or $15 for a game that is designed for a mobile platform. It simply isn't a competitor to indie games sold on Steam for the same price, if not lower, that have the capability to be grand in story, playability, as well as graphics.
 
2013-06-20 02:52:12 PM

RoxtarRyan: Lexx: RoxtarRyan: Lexx: Seriously people, buy an Ouya

You mean that cube thing with 1GB of memory and a tegra 3 CPU? Yeah, that thing can't even compete with my farking tablet. It's a joke. Angry Birds and Cut the Rope are games you play sitting on the shiatter, not sitting on a couch.

It's $100.  And I *hate* tablets.  And if I wanted graphical fidelity, I'd buy a highend PC.  Graphical fidelity has amazingly little to do with game play.

Ouya is the answer for a viable, small price, indie gaming platform.

That's right, because there are currently no vendors or platforms available for indie developers using a method that isn't already available in nearly every single household. ::rolls eyes::

This is a cheap moneygrab to take advantage of people think that shiatting games are capable of having the depth of story and playability of, hell, even NES or Genesis games. And for indie developers who really want to get in the market? There are already viable ways to get your name and product out without developing for a product that is going to flop. This is going to become the new N-GAGE, or the next Virtual Boy. The developer's time and money is better spent working on a platform that already is already widespread. Making games simply for the Ouya is a complete waste. The games likely won't be able to be ported to mobile devices (or at least, easily by the end consumer) due to the use of a physical controller, the graphics won't scale very well (if at all) going from even a midrange 32" HDTV to a 4" or 5" screen, so your consumer base will be limited to the few that purchase the device. And, despite what hopeful developers dream, even fewer people are going to pay $10 or $15 for a game that is designed for a mobile platform. It simply isn't a competitor to indie games sold on Steam for the same price, if not lower, that have the capability to be grand in story, playability, as well as graphics.


Let's see where you're wrong here.

TV Screens: 4-5" phones have the same resolution range as 32" HDTVs
Graphics: 4-5" phones have graphics in the same range, roughly, as Tegra 3, though running at lower power.
Games: $10-$15 is out of the question, these games are going to be going for far less, with a few notable exceptions (Final Fantasy III)
Platform: These are essentially Android phone games, with a bit more horsepower, and a controller.  This means that any development experience an indie gets on Ouya is directly applicable to the cellphone market. There's no reason why students & indies shouldn't develop for this platform, as the barrier of entry to publish is far lower than even on Steam.

It *may* flop, indeed.  But I sincerely hope it doesn't - it'll be great for the industry.  There should be a goddamned lab of Ouyas in every single computer game programming school.
 
2013-06-20 03:27:26 PM
The nazis made the jews check-in at least once every twenty-four hours, look how that turned out.
 
2013-06-20 03:40:10 PM
cliffyb has turned into a real whiny shiathead the last few years
 
2013-06-20 04:19:38 PM
Intrepid00:  Hollywood accounting.

I would generally agree with that assumption however we can only go with what the publishers say when looking at the current situation.

I also agree that there is no farking way Tomb Raider cost as much as the first of the new gen of 3D movies did.
 
2013-06-20 04:28:10 PM

CrowdSceneExtra: poot_rootbeer: CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.

If somebody's returning a game to Gamestop within 48 hours of obtaining it, it probably means the game was shyte and the publisher barely even deserves the revenue they got from the first time it was purchased, much less any additional revenue for the next sucker who falls for the hype.

red5ish: CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.

If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.

Portal 2 single player only takes about 10 hours to beat for an average user.  Would you consider it garbage if somebody returns it after beating it?


No I can't honestly say that Portal or Portal 2 are garbage, but if there is only 10 hours of content/play time in those games with no replay value the publisher has designed a game that's going to be re-sold. I shouldn't have used the term "crappy" to describe all games that get quickly re-sold. It is, however, the publisher's and designer's decision to make games that are short and have little or no replay value. Valve knew this when they bundled the original Portal in the Orange Box release, and not many people turned around and resold their Orange Box the next day.
 
2013-06-20 04:30:59 PM

red5ish: CrowdSceneExtra: poot_rootbeer: CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.

If somebody's returning a game to Gamestop within 48 hours of obtaining it, it probably means the game was shyte and the publisher barely even deserves the revenue they got from the first time it was purchased, much less any additional revenue for the next sucker who falls for the hype.

red5ish: CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.

If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.

Portal 2 single player only takes about 10 hours to beat for an average user.  Would you consider it garbage if somebody returns it after beating it?

No I can't honestly say that Portal or Portal 2 are garbage, but if there is only 10 hours of content/play time in those games with no replay value the publisher has designed a game that's going to be re-sold. I shouldn't have used the term "crappy" to describe all games that get quickly re-sold. It is, however, the publisher's and designer's decision to make games that are short and have little or no replay value. Valve knew this when they bundled the original Portal in the Orange Box release, and not many people turned around and resold their Orange Box the next day.


Also worth noting Portal/2 were under $20 new. I think $1-2 an hour for entertainment is about right for most video games. If you bought it new day one for $20 beat it in 10 hours and sold it for $10 your gaming is still only $1 an hour.
 
2013-06-20 04:48:59 PM

Lexx: TV Screens: 4-5" phones have the same resolution range as 32" HDTVs


That does not mean it scales well. When it comes to DPI, when scaling a game made for a 4" screen up to a 32", it is going to look completely awful. And I don't mean awful as in "wow, this is 1990-era", I mean as in "crap, my eyes can't take this" awful. Imagine taking text that is normally maybe 1/4" in height on the phone, then blow it up to a big screen TV, where it will be several inches in height. Now start doing that for every pixel, every sprite and graphic, just blowing it up so it fits the larger screen. It would be absolutely headache inducing, like trying to play a game meant for a 32" screen and playing it on an IMAX screen. Or, do the reverse, where you make a game that is meant to be fit on a 32" screen, where you can fit a LOT more info due to the large area, and squeeze it into a 4" screen. Text will be unreadable, characters or scenery will be become to tiny you can't tell one from another. Just do this: Imagine playing CoD, Portal 2, Borderlands or any other game that is meant to be played on a large screen, and play that same game, only scaled down to a screen the size of your palm. It would be completely unenjoyable, and don't forget the lost space due to using your thumbs for the UI (more on that later). Even games that are less graphically intensive than modern HD games... Let's say Minecraft, Terraria, Doom, Quake, etc. They are simply unplayable when scaled beyond what is comfortable for the eye to manage what is happening on the screen.

Lexx: Graphics: 4-5" phones have graphics in the same range, roughly, as Tegra 3, though running at lower power.


Tthis is more or less an extension of the previous comment.

Lexx: Games: $10-$15 is out of the question, these games are going to be going for far less, with a few notable exceptions (Final Fantasy III)


Well, what will that say about the quality of the games that are made exclusively for a new device with a questionable consumer base and support by developers? I'm hesitant to spend money on cellphone games as it is because they are, as noted, games meant for maybe killing 5-10 minutes at a time, and I can't think of a game that is currently out for mobile devices that costs as little as $5 that competes with games costing the same on Steam (and I've played a fair amount, with Amazon giving away an app a day for free).

Lexx: Platform: These are essentially Android phone games, with a bit more horsepower, and a controller. This means that any development experience an indie gets on Ouya is directly applicable to the cellphone market.


Well, again, damn near every single mobile platform game is a 5-10 time killer, mainly due to the limitations of the hardware. A game made for, and meant to be played, while sitting on the throne, or maybe sitting in a car or bus as a passenger. And the controller aspect of the Ouya is what really makes the ability to port games seamlessly damn near fruitless... Unless people are going to start carrying around controllers in their pockets or purses and learning how to sync up the controllers to their cell phones (even that will be a problem, since a lot of wireless peripherals are not supported on all Android devices, for example, bluetooth-connected watches, wireless speakers, car stereo units, etc, leading to a lot of headaches and additional problems), this is a poor argument that relies on the user doing too much when they simply want to play a game. If the developers decide to just port it using on-screen controls, it will be extremely disappointing to people when they realize that the same game isn't as playable using a screen where your thumbs are blocking a lot of space. That is a bit like me remoting into my personal PC with my tablet using a RDC program, starting up a game, and trying to play it using the RDC on-screen controls; While yes, it can technically run, the interface will be horrible since I no longer have a separate peripheral to control anything. I've seen RDC programs touting that they enable the users to play WoW from their cell phone or tablets, and while technically true, playing damn near any game is goddamn horrible. And besides, who would want to prop up their cell phone to play a game with a controller to begin with? It just seems like doing something for the sake of doing it, without rhyme or reason.

Actually, that last sentence seems to be the mantra of the Ouya: doing something for the sake of doing it.

Lexx: as the barrier of entry to publish is far lower than even on Steam.


Aaaand the final point: Barrier of entry. While yes, getting something on Steam isn't a simple as it is on Amazon or the Google marketplace, that is a damn good thing. There are too many games for mobile devices that are too damn intrusive, often laden with malware, requesting more permissions that necessary to run it, or are simply goddamn awful clones. Don't believe me? Go do a search on Amazon for "minecraft" and see the number of awful shiatty clones that are purposely misleading in both app picture, name and description. Having some kind of barrier is good, and in my opinion, necessary.

Don't misunderstand, I'm a fan of competition and whatnot, but a console based on the android platform sticking to low-power CPU and GPUs is simply not competitive against consoles backed by huge corporations, or PCs where there are numerous vendors and companies who will distribute the work of indie developers, reaching a much larger and already established audience.  If a console is a non-competitor, why should average consumers purchase it? If consumers are doubting the console as much as this, why should developers waste time and effort developing for it? And so, the circle goes around and down the drain, leading us back to where the mobile gaming currently has its base: the shiatter.
 
2013-06-20 05:21:10 PM

RoxtarRyan: This is a cheap moneygrab to take advantage of people think that shiatting games are capable of having the depth of story and playability of, hell, even NES or Genesis games.


So basically, the entire indie game movement?
 
2013-06-20 05:21:48 PM

Faddy: Is CliffyB even employed?


Nope.  His net worth is $15 million and he owns a Lambo because of paychecks from gamers.

The people he says are entitled, ruining the industry by used games, and need to be reined in are apparently us.  He as a master god race of game creators deserves what no other industry gets, right to resell into perpetuity.

I say gamers need to stop giving DB's like this their money, and watch them squirm.  It's not our problem they can't figure out how to run a business.  They'll go under and die and others will move in to take the moneysacks off the table in a more sustainable way.  The old guard from the 80's and 90's got fat, old, and stupid.  It's time to cull the herd and bring in fresh ideas.
 
2013-06-20 05:41:33 PM

AmazinTim: I see Xbox One's ability to cloud-compute game elements as a tremendous advantage in terms of gaming experiences that the platform can deliver. It opens the door for seemingly unlimited processing power.


...Yeah, no. That isn't going to happen.

Here's a good rule of thumb; whenever someone says anything about cloud computing that doesn't revolve around offsite data storage, there's a 90% chance that they're blowing smoke up your ass.
 
2013-06-20 05:46:34 PM

TyrantII: I say gamers need to stop giving DB's like this their money, and watch them squirm.  It's not our problem they can't figure out how to run a business.  They'll go under and die and others will move in to take the moneysacks off the table in a more sustainable way.  The old guard from the 80's and 90's got fat, old, and stupid.  It's time to cull the herd and bring in fresh ideas.


Problem.  The same people nodding in agreement will shiv you if you so much as suggest they shouldn't pre-order the next CoD, GoW, Battlefield or Halo (pick an IP it's all the same).   Game companies are very very aware of this behaviour and often encourage it.

Whilst that paradox exists the idiot spurgers will have money thrown at them by a legion of people who'll happily defend any statements said idiot makes.

Fortunately most of Fark's cliffyb appreciation club are (I believe at least) PC gamers...  so it really won't end well for him.
 
2013-06-20 05:55:35 PM

red5ish: CrowdSceneExtra: poot_rootbeer: CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.

If somebody's returning a game to Gamestop within 48 hours of obtaining it, it probably means the game was shyte and the publisher barely even deserves the revenue they got from the first time it was purchased, much less any additional revenue for the next sucker who falls for the hype.

red5ish: CrowdSceneExtra: If somebody wanders into a Gamestop even 48 hours after a game has released, there's a chance they can find a used copy which means somebody caught up in the release hype is getting the experience without any income for the publisher.

If a company has published a game that consumers are returning at a loss within such a short amount of time, and are returning in such quantities that it's seriously cutting into their profits, the problem is with the game itself.

Portal 2 single player only takes about 10 hours to beat for an average user.  Would you consider it garbage if somebody returns it after beating it?

No I can't honestly say that Portal or Portal 2 are garbage, but if there is only 10 hours of content/play time in those games with no replay value the publisher has designed a game that's going to be re-sold. I shouldn't have used the term "crappy" to describe all games that get quickly re-sold. It is, however, the publisher's and designer's decision to make games that are short and have little or no replay value. Valve knew this when they bundled the original Portal in the Orange Box release, and not many people turned around and resold their Orange Box the next day.


the number of hours worth of content in a game is maybe the most overrated thing in modern games

most modern gamers don't even finish games, hell i'm anything but a casual gamer and i still don't finish most of my games

i think gameplay systems matter so much more than content, a good gameplay system also makes it way cheaper and easier to extend the game without making players feel like they're player cheap filler too

i mean you look back at older games and most of the games were cut/paste content-wise, but the gameplay systems were so fun it didn't matter

nowadays they spend so much money on the content they feel the need to dumb down gameplay systems... it really shouldn't be that way, and content is more expensive than gameplay systems as well but i guess companies are dead-set on putting all their eggs in one basket so let them die if they want
 
2013-06-20 06:33:39 PM
Newest reports are indicating the sharing a game between 10 friends was limited to a 60 minute demo. After which, users would be prompted to the market place to buy their own copy.

So much for visionary.
 
2013-06-20 06:46:50 PM
Well, seeing as how this is today's tech thread surrogate...

Now that I'm giving up on consoles and moving into the PC gaming realm...

What's the best way to connect my EVGA GTX 650 to my tv? DVI or HDMI. It comes with a MiniHDMI slot, and I can run an adapter to regular HDMI to the tv...I hear the bonus of this method is I won't need a separate cable to transmit sound.
 
2013-06-20 06:47:17 PM

Someothermonkey: Newest reports are indicating the sharing a game between 10 friends was limited to a 60 minute demo. After which, users would be prompted to the market place to buy their own copy.

So much for visionary.


The sharing thing was one of the very few redeemable qualities about that system. Too bad they were full of shiat.
 
2013-06-20 06:50:39 PM

croesius: Well, seeing as how this is today's tech thread surrogate...

Now that I'm giving up on consoles and moving into the PC gaming realm...

What's the best way to connect my EVGA GTX 650 to my tv? DVI or HDMI. It comes with a MiniHDMI slot, and I can run an adapter to regular HDMI to the tv...I hear the bonus of this method is I won't need a separate cable to transmit sound.


I don't see why it wouldn't work.  It won't need a second cable.
 
2013-06-20 06:59:28 PM

Nefarious: croesius: Well, seeing as how this is today's tech thread surrogate...

Now that I'm giving up on consoles and moving into the PC gaming realm...

What's the best way to connect my EVGA GTX 650 to my tv? DVI or HDMI. It comes with a MiniHDMI slot, and I can run an adapter to regular HDMI to the tv...I hear the bonus of this method is I won't need a separate cable to transmit sound.

I don't see why it wouldn't work.  It won't need a second cable.


That's my thinking as well, I just saw differing opinions on the quality differential between the two methods on connection. I just am hard pressed to see DVI providing higher quality than HDMI, regardless of what anonymous forum posters were declaring.
 
2013-06-20 07:07:38 PM

chozo13: Someothermonkey: Newest reports are indicating the sharing a game between 10 friends was limited to a 60 minute demo. After which, users would be prompted to the market place to buy their own copy.

So much for visionary.

The sharing thing was one of the very few redeemable qualities about that system. Too bad they were full of shiat.


Frankly, it was bizarre that people thought microsoft or publishers would be okay with as many as 11 people all using one copy of a game. It was never going to work that way.
 
2013-06-20 07:08:40 PM

croesius: Nefarious: croesius: Well, seeing as how this is today's tech thread surrogate...

Now that I'm giving up on consoles and moving into the PC gaming realm...

What's the best way to connect my EVGA GTX 650 to my tv? DVI or HDMI. It comes with a MiniHDMI slot, and I can run an adapter to regular HDMI to the tv...I hear the bonus of this method is I won't need a separate cable to transmit sound.

I don't see why it wouldn't work.  It won't need a second cable.

That's my thinking as well, I just saw differing opinions on the quality differential between the two methods on connection. I just am hard pressed to see DVI providing higher quality than HDMI, regardless of what anonymous forum posters were declaring.


You won't even need an adaptor - HDMI to miniHDMI cables are available. Your card puts out 1080p HD so I think you're good to go.
 
2013-06-20 07:14:20 PM

Someothermonkey: chozo13: Someothermonkey: Newest reports are indicating the sharing a game between 10 friends was limited to a 60 minute demo. After which, users would be prompted to the market place to buy their own copy.

So much for visionary.

The sharing thing was one of the very few redeemable qualities about that system. Too bad they were full of shiat.

Frankly, it was bizarre that people thought microsoft or publishers would be okay with as many as 11 people all using one copy of a game. It was never going to work that way.


It's not a feature, it's an advertising pitch, like a test drive at a car dealership. It is not intended to improve your gaming experience, it is intended to sell more copies of the game.
 
2013-06-20 07:20:08 PM

Someothermonkey: Newest reports are indicating the sharing a game between 10 friends was limited to a 60 minute demo. After which, users would be prompted to the market place to buy their own copy.


Totally saw that coming.

It was utterly mind-blowing to me to learn that some people seriously thought Microsoft wanted them to be able to play their friend's games pretty much whenever they wanted. The whole POINT of the DRM thing was to make people buy more games, not fewer.
 
2013-06-20 07:38:08 PM

red5ish: Someothermonkey: chozo13: Someothermonkey: Newest reports are indicating the sharing a game between 10 friends was limited to a 60 minute demo. After which, users would be prompted to the market place to buy their own copy.

So much for visionary.

The sharing thing was one of the very few redeemable qualities about that system. Too bad they were full of shiat.

Frankly, it was bizarre that people thought microsoft or publishers would be okay with as many as 11 people all using one copy of a game. It was never going to work that way.

It's not a feature, it's an advertising pitch, like a test drive at a car dealership. It is not intended to improve your gaming experience, it is intended to sell more copies of the game.


It was most certainly not clarified to that extent hence the confusion. If you read the posts from previous threads on this, you'd see that not a small number of people actually thought microsoft was going incorporate a feature that would allow up to 11 people share a single copy of a game. And that's why those same people are upset at the "internet rage" that supposedly cost them this great new feature. Yeah, these people are idiots but it all begins with microsoft failing to properly clarify what they were doing. Granted, if they had come out and said sharing was limited to 60, the backlash would have been even more intense.
 
2013-06-20 08:10:01 PM

Someothermonkey: it all begins with microsoft failing to properly clarify what they were doing


My impression is that Microsoft is intentionally misleading their potential customers about many aspects of the Xbone. Many of the changes and "features" are intended to increase profits for Microsoft and are of little or no benefit to the customer. I think that for Microsoft, being a game company is straying a long way from their core competencies. They seem to feel they can and should monetized every aspect of the gaming experience. They also don't seem to understand - and this may be a part of their corporate culture - that they have serious (and possibly superior) competition for their customer base. Without backwards compatibility their console looks to be a technically inferior and pricier product than the PS4, and Microsoft's customer base has no persuasive reason to buy an Xbone over a PS4.
 
2013-06-20 08:41:18 PM
This is cool because i bought ANOTHER copy of the Last of Us for my tight arsed friend just so he can experience it. Great games never lose money.
 
2013-06-20 09:04:25 PM

Carth: Also worth noting Portal/2 were under $20 new...


Portal was also a "B-side" title threw into The Orange Box to sweeten the deal, considering at least half its content (HL2 and E1) was repackaged. Sparing that, it would have remained critically lauded but probably wouldn't have nearly as wide an audience and the popularity it enjoyed. It wasn't even released as a standalone product until almost a year after its initial retail release.
 
2013-06-20 10:03:09 PM

red5ish: Someothermonkey: it all begins with microsoft failing to properly clarify what they were doing

My impression is that Microsoft is intentionally misleading their potential customers about many aspects of the Xbone. Many of the changes and "features" are intended to increase profits for Microsoft and are of little or no benefit to the customer. I think that for Microsoft, being a game company is straying a long way from their core competencies. They seem to feel they can and should monetized every aspect of the gaming experience. They also don't seem to understand - and this may be a part of their corporate culture - that they have serious (and possibly superior) competition for their customer base. Without backwards compatibility their console looks to be a technically inferior and pricier product than the PS4, and Microsoft's customer base has no persuasive reason to buy an Xbone over a PS4.


it was a big question going in with the xbox 1 (not the xbone) whether a company built around a defacto monopoly could compete in a space that basically resets progress every 5 years regardless of how much money you throw at it

the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole
 
2013-06-20 10:41:23 PM

AdamK: the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole


You mean the company that is at the top of the Amazon's video game best seller's list?
 
2013-06-21 12:31:47 AM

JohnnyC: AdamK: the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole

You mean the company that is at the top of the Amazon's video game best seller's list?


Meanwhile the PS4 has 6 separate bundles in the top 100.  Including spots 3,4,5 and 10.
 
2013-06-21 12:36:08 AM
Oh, and the PS4 is still several spots above the XBox One in the "Best sellers of 2013" list.  I would even guess that the slip from 1 to 3 in the current best seller list might be because that PS4 edition is sold out on Amazon right now.
 
2013-06-21 06:41:52 AM

JohnnyC: AdamK: the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole

You mean the company that is at the top of the Amazon's video game best seller's list?


PS4 is outselling XBO 2:1 If you have an update since they changed their DRM policy I'd like to see it.
 
2013-06-21 07:54:41 AM

Carth: JohnnyC: AdamK: the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole

You mean the company that is at the top of the Amazon's video game best seller's list?

PS4 is outselling XBO 2:1 If you have an update since they changed their DRM policy I'd like to see it.


amazon pre-orders are also no-money-down

anywhere that requires money-down the PS4 is ahead
 
2013-06-21 08:10:48 AM

AdamK: Carth: JohnnyC: AdamK: the irony is they would've kept more consumers by keeping backwards compatibility with all 360 peripherals and XBLA games than going down this DRM shiathole

You mean the company that is at the top of the Amazon's video game best seller's list?

PS4 is outselling XBO 2:1 If you have an update since they changed their DRM policy I'd like to see it.

amazon pre-orders are also no-money-down

anywhere that requires money-down the PS4 is ahead


The link includes reports from Gamespot. Other than those two no other store has reported preorders have they?
 
2013-06-21 08:35:47 AM
If anyone thinks Microsoft was implementing all those features in the name of innovation, and not to milk players dry, then I have a giant wall in China I can sell them.
 
2013-06-21 08:51:13 AM

FuryOfFirestorm: If anyone thinks Microsoft was implementing all those features in the name of innovation, and not to milk players dry, then I have a giant wall in China I can sell them.


Microsoft implemented the features to entice publishers into exclusive games.  Exclusives sell consoles, and people buy GAMES, not consoles.
 
2013-06-21 09:13:43 AM

FuryOfFirestorm: If anyone thinks Microsoft was implementing all those features in the name of innovation, and not to milk players dry, then I have a giant wall in China I can sell them.


Its innovation at work on other platforms.   There are alot of things you can do by way of digital license that would give microsoft and publishers more of the take while also making up for the disadvantage of having to stay on the internet. It can be used to save players money by cutting out middlemen.
Saving players space and the annoyance of scratched orlost diskswould be a selling point VS the likes of Sony (who has no idea what a game ecosystem is anyway). Sales and package deals can still happen while the need for DLC, to secure profits, is reduced.

The point being made here is that staying on physical media doesn't prevent bad practices from happening.   It only encourages it, as publishers continue to fight resellers on their own with less technical assistance from console makers.
So they'll sell you a demo and make you buy the rest of the game online, one chapter at a time.


/But you have a physical disk (which is no good without a day one patch) to feel empowered.
 
2013-06-21 09:19:04 AM

Lexx: FuryOfFirestorm: If anyone thinks Microsoft was implementing all those features in the name of innovation, and not to milk players dry, then I have a giant wall in China I can sell them.

Microsoft implemented the features to entice publishers into exclusive games.  Exclusives sell consoles, and people buy GAMES, not consoles.


True but the number of consoles sold determines which ones get games. If PS4 has double the install base not many publishers are going to make xbox exclusives unless Microsoft throws tons of money at them. Lucky for MS they have the money to spend.
 
2013-06-21 09:34:55 AM

Lexx: Microsoft implemented the features to entice publishers into exclusive games.  Exclusives sell consoles, and people buy GAMES, not consoles.


People have to buy a console to play those games, and not many people want to buy a console that treats them like teenager being punished for breaking curfew.
 
2013-06-21 10:00:55 AM

Carth: Lexx: FuryOfFirestorm: If anyone thinks Microsoft was implementing all those features in the name of innovation, and not to milk players dry, then I have a giant wall in China I can sell them.

Microsoft implemented the features to entice publishers into exclusive games.  Exclusives sell consoles, and people buy GAMES, not consoles.

True but the number of consoles sold determines which ones get games. If PS4 has double the install base not many publishers are going to make xbox exclusives unless Microsoft throws tons of money at them. Lucky for MS they have the money to spend.


And the number of exclusives go a long way to determining which consoles get purchased.  I have NO interest in Nintendo hardware, but Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros, etc, will always occupy a soft spot in my heart, so I buy the console in order to play the game.

FuryOfFirestorm: Lexx: Microsoft implemented the features to entice publishers into exclusive games.  Exclusives sell consoles, and people buy GAMES, not consoles.

People have to buy a console to play those games, and not many people want to buy a console that treats them like teenager being punished for breaking curfew.


People will buy the hardware necessary to play the game, though if the public consciousness is focused on negatives about the console itself, they won't buy the console because they're unaware of the games.
 
2013-06-21 10:10:40 AM

Carth: True but the number of consoles sold determines which ones get games. If PS4 has double the install base not many publishers are going to make xbox exclusives unless Microsoft throws tons of money at them. Lucky for MS they have the money to spend.


I would agree with a caveat: the top two console makers, regardless of who they are, will get more than likely get exclusives.  As it stands right now, the top "Next Gen" console is the Wii U.  That will presumably change this holiday season.  The question is will Microsoft outsell the Wii U?  Probably, though it is far from certain. (And if so, when?)  PS4 as of right now is in a better position, but I Sony seems to continually cut their own throat, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Microsoft saw the writing on the wall and they changed direction.  Is it too little to late?  Maybe, but aside from the "hardcore" console gaming crowd, it is probably sufficient.  The truth of the matter is the ultra-hardcore gaming crowd may very well get all the consoles anyway.  So it comes down to the "partisans" which I would argue are not the majority.  The unwashed masses are what need to be watched.  Especially parents of teens.  All this drama now, if it fades by release (which I bet it will), won't matter to them.
 
2013-06-21 10:43:58 AM

Ajanu: "When the system is off, it's only listening for the single voice command -- "Xbox On," and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you'll need to turn it back on for these experiences."

This is the link for the One, no mention of unplugging it. http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy

2 reasons Kinect is bundled I think. The first is because people in the tech industry think we want to talk to our devices and use gestures for everything. Apple, Android, all smart TV makers, PC makers etc, MS is just jumping on the bandwagon. The other is so that anyone who wants to use Kinect in their game design will know that the person buying the One version will have access to it. Remains to be seen how much it will be used, and how good games can be with it, but being an optional extra it would be skipped by many/most people.

To all the people saying they will use paper or tape to cover the camera, you realize it has an IR camera right? So you need something thicker than paper to hide your crack smoking or fornicating from the camera.



If you can unplug it and still have the system work without needing to jump through any hoops, I'd be fine with that.  Is it frustrating that they're forcing it down everyone's throats by bundling it with the system and increasing the cost?  Yes, but I can understand the argument of making the technology ubiquitous and opening doors for developers.

However, if you flat out can't use the system with Kinect unplugged, or have to navigate a series of labyrinthine prompts and settings to do so, that is unacceptable in my mind.  The only reason I can think of to do something like that is because they have planned revenue around targeted advertising applications which rely on that device...and that is farking disturbing.
 
2013-06-21 10:53:23 AM

Lexx: People will buy the hardware necessary to play the game, though if the public consciousness is focused on negatives about the console itself, they won't buy the console because they're unaware of the games.


So you admit that all this DRM crap was a bad thing then?

Pop quiz time: would you rather pay $500 for a console with some features you like, plus a lot of features you don't like, or would you rather pay $400 for a console that has a lot of features you like?

I know the answer might take a while to figure out, but I'll be generous and grade on a curve.
 
2013-06-21 11:38:07 AM

FuryOfFirestorm: Lexx: People will buy the hardware necessary to play the game, though if the public consciousness is focused on negatives about the console itself, they won't buy the console because they're unaware of the games.

So you admit that all this DRM crap was a bad thing then?

Pop quiz time: would you rather pay $500 for a console with some features you like, plus a lot of features you don't like, or would you rather pay $400 for a console that has a lot of features you like?

I know the answer might take a while to figure out, but I'll be generous and grade on a curve.


I'll buy the system that allows me to play the games I want to.
 
2013-06-21 12:06:53 PM

Lexx: I'll buy the system that allows me to play the games I want to.


It's totally OK if MS cornholes gamers up the butt without lube, because HALO!11111!1
 
2013-06-21 01:43:09 PM
Question for the guys on here -

Would you marry a girl who makes you check in with her all the time, always keeps an eye on you, tells you what you can and can't do with your property, and promises awesome sex that only happens once a year but ends up being the same crappy sex as last year (and now she wants to bring a dog into it)?

Or do you rather marry a girl that doesn't do any of that crap?
 
2013-06-21 01:44:44 PM

guestguy: Ajanu: "When the system is off, it's only listening for the single voice command -- "Xbox On," and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you'll need to turn it back on for these experiences."

This is the link for the One, no mention of unplugging it. http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy

2 reasons Kinect is bundled I think. The first is because people in the tech industry think we want to talk to our devices and use gestures for everything. Apple, Android, all smart TV makers, PC makers etc, MS is just jumping on the bandwagon. The other is so that anyone who wants to use Kinect in their game design will know that the person buying the One version will have access to it. Remains to be seen how much it will be used, and how good games can be with it, but being an optional extra it would be skipped by many/most people.

To all the people saying they will use paper or tape to cover the camera, you realize it has an IR camera right? So you need something thicker than paper to hide your crack smoking or fornicating from the camera.

If you can unplug it and still have the system work without needing to jump through any hoops, I'd be fine with that.  Is it frustrating that they're forcing it down everyone's throats by bundling it with the system and increasing the cost?  Yes, but I can understand the argument of making the technology ubiquitous and opening doors for developers.

However, if you flat out can't use the system with Kinect unplugged, or have to navigate a series of labyrinthine prompts and settings to do so, that is unacceptable in my mind.  The only reason I can think of to do something like that is because they have planned revenue around targeted advertising applications which rely on that device...and that is farking disturbing.


i wonder what happens if you break the kinect, does the xbone not work anymore? or what if you put tape over the lens, if it can't see or hear the player will it still work?
 
2013-06-21 02:24:53 PM
I bought an xbox because I wanted the simplicity of just popping a disk in and playing a game. No need to mess with settings, which is why I got tired of PC gaming to begin with.

Now, this generation of consoles just seems like a pain in the ass.

I see the value of an all-in-one entertainment box, I just don't want one.

Since I don't have much time for gaming anymore, I think I'll just keep the 360 and play the games I've missed.
 
2013-06-21 03:29:49 PM

AdamK: i wonder what happens if you break the kinect


Assuming its still connected, nothing more than if you stuck a live gamepad in a box and ignored it.

Microsoft wants publishers to use the kinect because it means incorporating features that will only work on the Xbox (a plus if it makes the games better). The problem is those same publishers are looking for the broadest audience. The little facets that make X1 and P4 different will get lost in the rush to deliver a similar experience across platforms to both sets of customers.

By shoehorning kinect into every living room you broaden the audience, increase the chances of players wanting those features, and make it more profitable for developers to use them.
 
2013-06-21 03:53:09 PM

AdamK: i wonder what happens if you break the kinect, does the xbone not work anymore? or what if you put tape over the lens, if it can't see or hear the p ...



You shouldn't need to do any of that in my opinion, that's friggin ridiculous.  You should be able to unplug the damn thing; there is no defensible reason to mandate that it's always connected to the system.
 
2013-06-21 03:55:33 PM

way south: AdamK: i wonder what happens if you break the kinect

Assuming its still connected, nothing more than if you stuck a live gamepad in a box and ignored it.

Microsoft wants publishers to use the kinect because it means incorporating features that will only work on the Xbox (a plus if it makes the games better). The problem is those same publishers are looking for the broadest audience. The little facets that make X1 and P4 different will get lost in the rush to deliver a similar experience across platforms to both sets of customers.

By shoehorning kinect into every living room you broaden the audience, increase the chances of players wanting those features, and make it more profitable for developers to use them.



Have you seen the bolded in a statement from MS somewhere?
 
2013-06-21 05:05:25 PM

guestguy: way south: AdamK: i wonder what happens if you break the kinect

Assuming its still connected, nothing more than if you stuck a live gamepad in a box and ignored it.

Microsoft wants publishers to use the kinect because it means incorporating features that will only work on the Xbox (a plus if it makes the games better). The problem is those same publishers are looking for the broadest audience. The little facets that make X1 and P4 different will get lost in the rush to deliver a similar experience across platforms to both sets of customers.

By shoehorning kinect into every living room you broaden the audience, increase the chances of players wanting those features, and make it more profitable for developers to use them.

Have you seen the bolded in a statement from MS somewhere?


Wait, really?
You expect it to lock up because it can't hear you talking, or scream "I CAN'T SEE YOUR FACE, NO GAMES TILL I SEE YOUR FACE!!"?
Unless they forwent the physical power button, the only time you'll need to interact with kinect is to say "xbox on".
Since you can't turn it off, you only have to say that once.

/Feel free to be creeped out by a no-longer online camera that's watching you for its own enjoyment.
/Orbuy a PS4 and tap the share button. We need constant updates on your progress inlittle big planet.
 
2013-06-21 05:19:51 PM

way south: Have you seen the bolded in a statement from MS somewhere?

Wait, really?
You expect it to lock up because it can't hear you talking, or scream "I CAN'T SEE YOUR FACE, NO GAMES TILL I SEE YOUR FACE!!"?
Unless they forwent the physical power button, the only time you'll need to interact with kinect is to say "xbox on".
Since you can't turn it off, you only have to say that once.

/Feel free to be creeped out by a no-longer online camera that's watching you for its own enjoyment.
/Orbuy a PS4 and tap the share button. We need constant updates on your progress inlittle big planet.



I don't know what the hell to expect from it; it could say "Kinect obstructed, please remove obstruction to continue."   Why does it need to be plugged in for the system to work?  Simply for the ability to say "Xbox on"?  That is a farking stupid excuse.  I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation.

There are legitimate privacy concerns surrounding this thing, and being a dismissive twat isn't going to suddenly make them go away.
 
2013-06-21 06:19:05 PM

guestguy: way south: Have you seen the bolded in a statement from MS somewhere?

Wait, really?
You expect it to lock up because it can't hear you talking, or scream "I CAN'T SEE YOUR FACE, NO GAMES TILL I SEE YOUR FACE!!"?
Unless they forwent the physical power button, the only time you'll need to interact with kinect is to say "xbox on".
Since you can't turn it off, you only have to say that once.

/Feel free to be creeped out by a no-longer online camera that's watching you for its own enjoyment.
/Orbuy a PS4 and tap the share button. We need constant updates on your progress inlittle big planet.

I don't know what the hell to expect from it; it could say "Kinect obstructed, please remove obstruction to continue."   Why does it need to be plugged in for the system to work?  Simply for the ability to say "Xbox on"?  That is a farking stupid excuse.  I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation.

There are legitimate privacy concerns surrounding this thing, and being a dismissive twat isn't going to suddenly make them go away.




Fair enough. But with the first kinect brought these concerns to bear years ago. If people haven't gotten over it by now then I don't think there's anything Microsoft can do to soothe their fears.
You're more likely to be done in by a cell phone camera than an offline kinect.

The reason it's always on (same as the current kinect) is because its part of the control scheme. You wave your hands and the screens flip, minority report style. They want you to do that while changing channels and games. They want it active for game features as well.

...But unless they disabled both glass and the wireless controllers, you could avoid using it.
If disconnected, X1 will just probably just biatch like it does for a disconnected game pad.
 
Displayed 229 of 229 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report