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(Twitter)   In response to MS retracting XBone DRM, creator of XBone exclusive titles joins MS in destroying the XBone by promising to turn all game components into DLC   (twitter.com) divider line 229
    More: Followup, DRM, classical elements  
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5770 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Jun 2013 at 7:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-20 06:42:28 AM
I hope that's fake.
 
2013-06-20 07:01:06 AM

RedPhoenix122: I hope that's fake.


probably not.  there's a push by companies to create new and more invasive forms of DRM.  never mind that it doesn't work, offends customers and only adds to the cost of games without increasing their value....
 
2013-06-20 07:17:50 AM
Headline...acronym overload...
 
2013-06-20 07:19:36 AM
In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.
 
2013-06-20 07:49:45 AM

RedPhoenix122: I hope that's fake.


he's been saying stuff like that for at least a month now, he's a big defender of the xbone drm and thinks the industry is doomed without xbone's drm
 
2013-06-20 07:53:30 AM
This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.
 
2013-06-20 07:56:40 AM
XBone?
Cross Bone?
4.bp.blogspot.com

I guess a new Gundam game is coming out.
 
2013-06-20 08:09:33 AM
Is CliffyB even employed?
 
2013-06-20 08:13:12 AM
Here's my translation of the tweet. Correct me if I'm wrong:

"Y'all biatches done gone and make us remove alllll that DRM that publishers wanted. And you know... you just KNOW... what with all the DRM gone, the publishers are gonna just slap on some multiplayer and unnecessary DLC so they can squeeze money out of you damn used-game buyers"

So he's basically saying that it'll be just like this generation, except that he predicts publishers will do worse things.

The very few AAA games I played and absolutely loved this generation had DLC and multiplayer that I never touched once, but I never felt the game was incomplete. Why should I assume that it'll be worse? That just sounds like butthurt to me.
 
2013-06-20 08:13:19 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony said publishers will have the same DRM abilities as they have with the PS3.
 
2013-06-20 08:14:01 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-20 08:15:44 AM
Soon you will essentially be buying a blank disk for $60 then have to immediately pay for a DLC to play the game
 
2013-06-20 08:16:28 AM

Mike_LowELL: In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.


In the case of the Xboned he is actually correct.  Which I admit is  minor miracle we should make a note of (under 'a stopped clock' probably).  Microsoft have already said: No publisher = Not on XBox.  It's generally intimated that this means a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft and so on rather than some enterprising indie who is both developer and makes a one man band publishing company.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiment about the mans line of thought though.  He's almost as bonkers as Carmack's "DirectX is awesome" splurge... whilst all of his peers are busy brushing up on OpenGL due to the portability of it.
 
2013-06-20 08:20:44 AM

jonny_q: Here's my translation of the tweet. Correct me if I'm wrong:



Nearly correct.  Needs more random splurging about how awesome he is, preferably with a Gears of War refference.  You should season with format flip-flop as well (which ever two formats take your fancy... say the 2600 and the Coleco) if you really want to master your Clifford to English.

/Seriously he calls himself 'CliffyB'... he's OLDER THAN I AM.
//I at least have a proper name: Vaneshi.
 
2013-06-20 08:22:56 AM

Vaneshi: Mike_LowELL: In this link: CliffyB pretends the fifty-million-dollar console video game is the only video game being made anymore, and thinks we won't just find other games to play.

In the case of the Xboned he is actually correct.  Which I admit is  minor miracle we should make a note of (under 'a stopped clock' probably).  Microsoft have already said: No publisher = Not on XBox.  It's generally intimated that this means a big publisher like EA, Ubisoft and so on rather than some enterprising indie who is both developer and makes a one man band publishing company.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiment about the mans line of thought though.  He's almost as bonkers as Carmack's "DirectX is awesome" splurge... whilst all of his peers are busy brushing up on OpenGL due to the portability of it.


From what I've read, if you want to sell a downloadable game on the XBone, you have to have two games for sale at retail, which screws over indie devs.
 
2013-06-20 08:25:08 AM

HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.


What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales? Does any other industry work that way? Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold? How about movies? Do movie studios get a cut of resales of used DVDs?
 
2013-06-20 08:28:41 AM
What's the OMG all about? Don't all platforms do this already?
 
2013-06-20 08:29:24 AM

digistil: HotWingConspiracy: Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony said publishers will have the same DRM abilities as they have with the PS3.


Not sure, but they already have the freedom to chisel you. It's like with ME3, you cannot access the online portion unless you pay EA, and you can't "complete" (you can finish, but not get the good ending) unless you do the multiplayer stuff. So if you get a used copy, EA is getting that cash if you're interested in completing the game.
 
2013-06-20 08:33:00 AM

Faddy: Is CliffyB even employed?


No.  And he's not making any XBox One exclusives. And it's not a promise, it's a prediction.  Subby lies to you.
 
2013-06-20 08:33:24 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: From what I've read, if you want to sell a downloadable game on the XBone, you have to have two games for sale at retail, which screws over indie devs.


Pretty much.  Which does kinda limit what size of company were talking about due to how expensive the process of getting a disc in to a store can be.

What I can't find out, although it's probably buried in the various documentation, is if that's two retail releases currently for sale or just two retail releases over a defined period of time.   Do Microsoft count Steam as retail or only physical store locations?  It could, theoretically, be a way around it.
 
2013-06-20 08:33:32 AM

Cythraul: HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.

What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales?


They're not really doing that, not directly anyway. "Getting a cut" wasn't the best way to describe it.

They can't reach in to Gamestop's pockets, but they can sell incomplete games then sell access to get all the rest, to every single person that ends up with that disc.
 
2013-06-20 08:39:15 AM

Cythraul: Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold?


No, but the tax man does.
 
2013-06-20 08:41:19 AM

Cythraul: HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.

What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales? Does any other industry work that way? Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold? How about movies? Do movie studios get a cut of resales of used DVDs?


Most of those other industries don't because they can't (or at least can't figure out a way to do it). A professor I know, who authors textbook, told me that the book publishers are constantly trying to think of a way of getting back the money "stolen" from them by used book sales.
 
2013-06-20 08:42:41 AM

eiger: Cythraul: HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.

What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales? Does any other industry work that way? Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold? How about movies? Do movie studios get a cut of resales of used DVDs?

Most of those other industries don't because they can't (or at least can't figure out a way to do it). A professor I know, who authors textbook, told me that the book publishers are constantly trying to think of a way of getting back the money "stolen" from them by used book sales.


Well these people need to die in a farking fire.
 
2013-06-20 08:43:45 AM

antidisestablishmentarianism: Cythraul: Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold?

No, but the tax man does.


But, if I try to walk, he'll tax my feet.
 
2013-06-20 08:43:58 AM

AdamK: RedPhoenix122: I hope that's fake.

he's been saying stuff like that for at least a month now, he's a big defender of the xbone drm and thinks the industry is doomed without xbone's drm


Obviously, he's trying to push the XB1 as "Saviour of Videogames" because if the systems doesn't move units, Gears Of War 4 won't sell enough copies to make a profit.

Cliffy B is the Rob Liefeld of video games.
 
2013-06-20 08:47:26 AM
The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!
 
2013-06-20 08:47:31 AM
I don't know why people want "XBone" to catch on so badly.
 
2013-06-20 08:48:48 AM
There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.
 
2013-06-20 08:50:28 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.


Fallout 3 complete edition, 2 years later, for $30.

Sorry guys, unless you make AMAZING multiplayer a thing, AND tell your buyers that the multiplayer's only good for a few years, you won't get $80 from me.
 
2013-06-20 08:51:30 AM

narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!


At no point did MS provide a plausable detailed plan on how the 'selling your digital copy' would actually work. They said you could do it, yet didn;t say for how much, at what times, NOTHING. Personally I was wating for those details and for them to lighten up on the 24 hour DRM restriction before deciding which system.

Don;t get all pissy with the internet for MS's lack of any discernable details on how they were going to make used games work.
 
2013-06-20 08:53:12 AM
Cythraul:  What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales?

Money and frankly we're at the point where something has got to give IMHO.  When a game such as Tomb Raider can sell 6 million units. top the charts for it's released platforms and still be considered a financial flop by its publisher... there is a massive problem in the industry when it comes to both budgets AND inflating sales predictions to unreasonable levels (Tomb Raider was never going to sell the expected 12 - 20 million units it just wasn't, FFS it shifting 6 million is quite remarkable).

Of course the biggest problem these companies have is that they're fast running out of people to blame for these 'screw ups'.  In the 90's it was us PC gamers who bore the brunt of their ire; we were dirty evil thieves who needed constant watching.   Except now we ARE watched constantly in an environment that is DRM heavy and generally precludes 'casual piracy' (Steam, Origin, et al) and it's this 'casual piracy' which was apparently the big problem.   So it's not us.  It must be you console people because obviously it couldn't be the publishers fault due to living in a fantasy land where every 360 owner will buy 2+ copies of your game.

Now despite second hand games being around since the days of the 2600 this has become the industries bogeyman as piracy has been wiped out *snicker*, it's second hand games which are killing off publishers and forcing them to do all of this.   They'll biatch and moan, moan and biatch, stamp their little feet and point fingers until they get exactly what they want.   Which, when you look at the XBone is doing just that.

Once used games have been killed (or heavily curtailed in the publishers mind) then a new bogeyman will dutifully be summoned to take its place as the reason video games aren't making enough money.

And I haven't even gone in to the bullshiat of Game & GameStop being 'hated' whilst publishers throw them so many farking exclusive bits of tat.

/ Every one who brought a copy of Tomb Raider should send SquareEnix a letter of apology.
// And the £30 they failed to give the company for their second copy.
// Only slightly joking.
 
2013-06-20 08:54:31 AM

drjekel_mrhyde: What's the OMG all about? Don't all platforms do this already?


Yeah, I thought that was pretty much the AAA model at this point.  Take Arkham City (a pretty good game) as an example.  There were launch day DLC, that you could buy later.  There were other DLC that added characters, costumes, missions, etc.  All for the seemingly small price of $10 a piece. After a few times, you have a game that cost $100.  This is a good reason to always wait for the "Game of the Year" editions. (On a side note, how come every games seems to have a GoTY edition, even if it wasn't?)
 
2013-06-20 08:56:34 AM
30 minute video explaining why used games suck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_f8YBy39M
 
2013-06-20 09:00:56 AM

Vaneshi: Once used games have been killed (or heavily curtailed in the publishers mind) then a new bogeyman will dutifully be summoned to take its place as the reason video games aren't making enough money.


So let's say piracy is completely eliminated (yeah, right), and the sales of used games no longer exist.

What else could they possibly blame for the failure of their games to achieve their expected level of greed / profit margin?
 
2013-06-20 09:01:48 AM
Well this should be a surprise to no one. Thanks a lot internet nerds you farked it up for the rest of us.
 
2013-06-20 09:03:20 AM

RyansPrivates: drjekel_mrhyde: What's the OMG all about? Don't all platforms do this already?

Yeah, I thought that was pretty much the AAA model at this point.  Take Arkham City (a pretty good game) as an example.  There were launch day DLC, that you could buy later.  There were other DLC that added characters, costumes, missions, etc.  All for the seemingly small price of $10 a piece. After a few times, you have a game that cost $100.  This is a good reason to always wait for the "Game of the Year" editions. (On a side note, how come every games seems to have a GoTY edition, even if it wasn't?)


It's the lure to get users who'd never pay full price to finally buy a copy.  Fallout 3 game of the year edition, etc.  Like hell I'm ever paying $100 for a goddamned video game.
 
2013-06-20 09:03:21 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.


Tell me why it costs more to upgrade my BF3 account to the Premium edition than it does to outright buy a new BF3 Premium edition and start a new account.
 
2013-06-20 09:03:55 AM

khhsdude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_f8YBy39M


A 30min video from someone who's tune has changed remarkably since his fortunes increased and he moved to America.  I remember the earlier revision of that (it was a mailbox) where he quite clearly stated the problem was how Game/GameStop were pushing used games in favour of new; even when the customer WANTED new and not the pure existence of a second hand market.

It's also interesting that John has put out videos which basically stated "If you don't like my channel fark off" (yes he literally used the uncensored version) and then seems to be utterly mystified when people take his advice and do leave him to his own devices.

A law degree he might have... but he isn't too bright sometimes.  That video is one of those times.
 
2013-06-20 09:06:39 AM

eiger: Cythraul: HotWingConspiracy: This was always what was going to be happening on the PS4 as well. Sony was free to say they weren't going to do it, but made no mention of what they would allow game developers to do.

They're going to find a way to get a cut of the cash on sales of their used titles. Rendering the game nearly useless or incomplete to a second-hand buyer unless they pony up ten bucks will be the easiest way.

What's the justification for a game company demanding profit off of used game sales? Does any other industry work that way? Does say, FORD get a cut of every used Ford truck that's resold? How about movies? Do movie studios get a cut of resales of used DVDs?

Most of those other industries don't because they can't (or at least can't figure out a way to do it). A professor I know, who authors textbook, told me that the book publishers are constantly trying to think of a way of getting back the money "stolen" from them by used book sales.


You wouldn't add Downloadable Content to a CAR would you?

/screw you, I would if I could!
 
2013-06-20 09:08:13 AM

RyansPrivates: drjekel_mrhyde: What's the OMG all about? Don't all platforms do this already?

Yeah, I thought that was pretty much the AAA model at this point.  Take Arkham City (a pretty good game) as an example.  There were launch day DLC, that you could buy later.  There were other DLC that added characters, costumes, missions, etc.  All for the seemingly small price of $10 a piece. After a few times, you have a game that cost $100.  This is a good reason to always wait for the "Game of the Year" editions. (On a side note, how come every games seems to have a GoTY edition, even if it wasn't?)


I have a really crazy idea. You could just enjoy the game without the DLC.  I have purchased the following DLC

Red Dead Redemption undead nightmare pack
Grand theft Auto IV Lost and the Damned and The Ballad of Gay Tony
Fallout 3 and fallout NV all DLC packs
Some of the DLC for skyrim but I plan to pick up the legendary pack for the PC eventually


These are actual add-ons and were all worth the price.  If you get suckered into buying bad DLC well that's kind of shiatty but it's on you.  Don't complain online about DLC if you are stupid enough to buy shiatty products.  Do you go out and buy a shiatty CRT TV and then biatch online about how criminal it is that RCA sold you a piece of shiat TV?
 
2013-06-20 09:08:57 AM

narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!


Far better than saying "fark it, sure, those features are TOTALLY worth giving up rights to ownership of my property and any kind of hope that my games will be available more than 6 years from now!"

Plus, if MS has half a brain left after the bleach chugging storm that was their development cycle for the Xbone, they'll leave the family share option in somehow.  From the way they were phrasing things, I'm betting the console will let you play with the disk without any DRM, but digital no-disk play may still have that checkin... that would be best of both worlds, and would leave the option for the family share open.

I'm wagering they'll figure out a way to leave the family share option open, since it's really the only bonus they have at all over the PS4 at the moment, what with weaker hardware, higher pricing, privacy concerns (especially with Google's lawsuit, I'm extra-worried about PRISM and NSA stuff now).  They're fighting a serious uphill battle from the get-go, and they went and shot themselves in the foot at the start to boot, they can't afford to scrap any advantage they can muster now.
 
2013-06-20 09:08:58 AM

RedPhoenix122: Jim from Saint Paul: There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.

Tell me why it costs more to upgrade my BF3 account to the Premium edition than it does to outright buy a new BF3 Premium edition and start a new account.


Because EA.
 
2013-06-20 09:10:02 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: RedPhoenix122: Jim from Saint Paul: There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.

Tell me why it costs more to upgrade my BF3 account to the Premium edition than it does to outright buy a new BF3 Premium edition and start a new account.

Because EA.


EA, Activision, big publishers can fark off.
 
2013-06-20 09:10:40 AM
CliffyB is a shortsighted fool.  He's also the guy who pushed the "death of PC gaming" meme hard a few years back, and even claimed Epic was going to get out of the PC games business entirely because of it.  5 years later, PC gaming is strong as ever, and Epic still makes PC games.
 
2013-06-20 09:11:53 AM

narkor: The original Xbox proposal allowed you to share digital with your friends or even allowed you to sell your digital copy. But the "we bought a disk lobby" won - so all that gets forgotten.

We're back to the status quo persisting for the forseeable future (there's no way that MS or Sony are going to change the model after the shiatstorm that just happened.

Game selling simply moves to the "razorblade" model - get the Razor (game) cheap, pay farkloads for the razors (DLC).

But hey - you get to buy used from Gamestop!


And you know what, even IF the "razorblade" model became more prevalent, that'd still be better than the original proposal--because at least you own "something" you can share with your friends or siblings.  More often than not, anyone who's sharing disks probably isn't interested in the "true ending" or the competitive multiplayer component.  In either model, the publisher is still going to try and extort you (and all used-gamers) the most they possibly can--if you think they weren't going to offer DLC or "expansions" under the original model, you're delusional.

Bottom-line:  first-sale doctrine should still apply, especially to "walled-garden" environments like a console--since the investment to the console is fairly steep to enough people (at least enough where you won't likely buy both consoles), it's probably the best way to keep costs competitive, as they are also competing against existing prior-art (ie, used-games).

/If they try to take DLC to the extreme again where you can basically only share a demo version of the game, then the outrage will flood in again (just like it did now)
//Still waiting for the reversal that they'll allow the Kinect to be turned off while using the console before I consider buying one anyway
 
2013-06-20 09:12:22 AM

Cythraul: What else could they possibly blame for the failure of their games to achieve their expected level of greed / profit margin?


This is just off the top of my head mind but...

If a game is launched with a retail focus then you've got:  Insufficient store locations, insufficient shelf space, stores failing to maximise use of marketing materials.

If a game is launched with a download focus then you got: insufficient broadband penetration.
 
2013-06-20 09:12:49 AM

Weaver95: RedPhoenix122: I hope that's fake.

probably not.  there's a push by companies to create new and more invasive forms of DRM.  never mind that it doesn't work, offends customers and only adds to the cost of games without increasing their value....


What do you mean, 'never mind' that last part? That part is the whole reason companies want DRM in the first place: to nickel-and-dime consumers to death for things that could and should have been in the initial and complete release of the game.
 
2013-06-20 09:13:34 AM

RedPhoenix122: Jim from Saint Paul: RedPhoenix122: Jim from Saint Paul: There was ALWAYS going to be more tacked on DLC.

That was never going to change.

For example, this guy is acting like Activision was just going to give you the newest CoD with all the maps at once for $60. Horse pucky.

Tell me why it costs more to upgrade my BF3 account to the Premium edition than it does to outright buy a new BF3 Premium edition and start a new account.

Because EA.

EA, Activision, big publishers can fark off.


AGreed.

Except I will be picking up Madden and the new CoD more then likely this year.

So not really I guess.
 
2013-06-20 09:16:25 AM
Here's a thought bleszinski. how about you NOT treat your consumers like criminals?
 
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