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(NPR)   How a used bottle becomes a new bottle in six animated gifs   (npr.org) divider line 73
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12192 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jun 2013 at 4:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-20 12:51:15 AM  
Now I want to watch Mr. Rogers
 
2013-06-20 04:15:31 AM  
Cool.
 
2013-06-20 04:27:51 AM  
The one thing I don't understand is why we no longer simply reuse bottles, rather than recycling them.  Even when I was a teen, we could still get beer in return bottles and take the empty case back in lieu of the deposit on another one.
 
2013-06-20 04:28:08 AM  
I want to see how cheerios are made. I'm assuming it's not unlike a pasta machine with a rotating cutter, then they bake the little Os. Or they hire fairies to make tiny oat bagels.
 
2013-06-20 04:30:12 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: why we no longer simply reuse bottles


Hygiene and flexibility. You would have to clean, test, and sort the old bottles, then send them to the right bottling customer...
 
2013-06-20 04:43:01 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: The one thing I don't understand is why we no longer simply reuse bottles, rather than recycling them.  Even when I was a teen, we could still get beer in return bottles and take the empty case back in lieu of the deposit on another one.


Terrorism. Terrorists might try to cover a bottle in aids and return it for reuse.
 
2013-06-20 05:00:38 AM  
Oh goodie, which gif details the chinese kids melting them down?

Or I know, how about a shiny infographic showing how more petro resources go into 'recycling' an item verses disposal?

Want to help the enviroment? Stop buying shiat.
 
2013-06-20 05:10:21 AM  
We need to develop better infrastructure for recycling raw materials. It's great that this place has figured out how to recycle glass - but I remember that in college our local recycling plant basically said that glass was not profitable for them and they would sometimes just stop taking glass from campus. Plastic is another one, it makes so much sense to recycle plastic environmentally (both in the petrol products saved and in terms of not dumping non-biodegradable polymers), but it's so hard for a local operation to do it profitably. Paying a bunch of temp workers/minimum wage employees/teenagers to sort it by hand isn't feasible. Large machines that could do the job would need to be used, but they aren't cost-effective for most towns. You'd have to have one centralized location in a county/MSA to do it effectively, but that increases shipping costs.

That, or we need to just simply subsidize the operation. We say "we're investing tax dollars into this because it's a thing we ought to be doing for the environment, and it makes for a more sustainable economy". But that will never happen universally, because conservatives are convinced that spending tax dollars on things like the environment, health care, education and welfare is evil.
 
2013-06-20 05:16:25 AM  
I love how computers seek out the clear glass and blow it onto a different conveyor belt. (Or was it the glass of color?)

I had a friend who built a system for lumber companies that sawed up limber trying to eliminate knots while minimizing waste. He later built a similar system to maximize fry length while getting rid of potato eyes.
 
2013-06-20 05:19:50 AM  

UsikFark: Dwight_Yeast: why we no longer simply reuse bottles

Hygiene and flexibility. You would have to clean, test, and sort the old bottles, then send them to the right bottling customer...


Also consumer squeamishness. I've been to countries that reuse glass bottles where it's readily apparent from the scuffed outermost ridges at the top and bottom of the bottles where they brush against one another. I'm sure some people wouldn't like it, and sellers would be concerned with losing those customers.

Sorting isn't that hard. Michigan has a $0.10 deposit on soft drink and beer bottles, so return rates average 97%. Stores that sell beverages have to take back the containers they sell, so most large ones have machines that suck them in on a conveyer, rotate them for lasers to scan the UPC symbol to verify it's a container that they sell, and spit them into the appropriate wheeled bin or chuck it back at the consumer. The beverage distributors are then responsible for taking the containers back from the stores. Granted PepsiCo would have to re-sort them further for re-use, but they could use the same idea on a larger scale.
 
2013-06-20 05:20:07 AM  

lacydog: glass was not profitable


RTFA. They claim they "can't get enough" recycled glass because it costs way less to melt it down than to make new glass from raw materials.
 
2013-06-20 05:22:15 AM  

T Baggins: UsikFark: Dwight_Yeast: why we no longer simply reuse bottles

Hygiene and flexibility. You would have to clean, test, and sort the old bottles, then send them to the right bottling customer...

Also consumer squeamishness. I've been to countries that reuse glass bottles where it's readily apparent from the scuffed outermost ridges at the top and bottom of the bottles where they brush against one another. I'm sure some people wouldn't like it, and sellers would be concerned with losing those customers.

Sorting isn't that hard. Michigan has a $0.10 deposit on soft drink and beer bottles, so return rates average 97%. Stores that sell beverages have to take back the containers they sell, so most large ones have machines that suck them in on a conveyer, rotate them for lasers to scan the UPC symbol to verify it's a container that they sell, and spit them into the appropriate wheeled bin or chuck it back at the consumer. The beverage distributors are then responsible for taking the containers back from the stores. Granted PepsiCo would have to re-sort them further for re-use, but they could use the same idea on a larger scale.


They had those machines at a Hy-Vee in Iowa. I think they just shipped them off to a recycler because everything glass went in one bin/bag, and it certainly sounded like bottles were breaking in there.
 
2013-06-20 05:23:57 AM  

RoyBatty: I love how computers seek out the clear glass and blow it onto a different conveyor belt. (Or was it the glass of color?)


You would use a very fast optical sensor to pull RGB values from each fragment and sort accordingly, I assume.
 
2013-06-20 05:28:25 AM  

UsikFark: RoyBatty: I love how computers seek out the clear glass and blow it onto a different conveyor belt. (Or was it the glass of color?)

You would use a very fast optical sensor to pull RGB values from each fragment and sort accordingly, I assume.


For me it's the inspiration of the first guy or gal to realize a puff of air could be used to sort out bad eggs (like Veruca Salt) combined with the computer sensor. I'd be designing robot arms. Someone figured what the hell, a jet of air.
 
2013-06-20 05:33:34 AM  

UsikFark: You would use a very fast optical sensor to pull RGB values from each fragment and sort accordingly, I assume.


Why does it need to be fast? You just place it further back on the conveyor belt.
 
2013-06-20 05:36:16 AM  

RoyBatty: UsikFark: RoyBatty: I love how computers seek out the clear glass and blow it onto a different conveyor belt. (Or was it the glass of color?)

You would use a very fast optical sensor to pull RGB values from each fragment and sort accordingly, I assume.

For me it's the inspiration of the first guy or gal to realize a puff of air could be used to sort out bad eggs (like Veruca Salt) combined with the computer sensor. I'd be designing robot arms. Someone figured what the hell, a jet of air.


Sometimes I watch manufacturing videos and I'm astonished by how perfectly a machine can do a repetitive action that could only be done by a very lucky human, it's like someone building a machine to make thousands of perfect 3-point shots anywhere on a basketball court. I was never able to program the robotic arm to perfectly pick up and place the dowel in my high school technology class, so I have respect for the engineers who make the machines and programs to do reliable tasks like that.
 
2013-06-20 05:40:28 AM  

Copper Spork: UsikFark: You would use a very fast optical sensor to pull RGB values from each fragment and sort accordingly, I assume.

Why does it need to be fast? You just place it further back on the conveyor belt.


You could drop a stream of glass pieces through the air and have the blower sort them into bins. Why not move the stream as fast as the reader can handle and ship more sorted glass per day? The bit of glass is only going to be in front of the optical device for a fraction of a second.
 
2013-06-20 05:41:52 AM  

UsikFark: Copper Spork: UsikFark: You would use a very fast optical sensor to pull RGB values from each fragment and sort accordingly, I assume.

Why does it need to be fast? You just place it further back on the conveyor belt.

You could drop a stream of glass pieces through the air and have the blower sort them into bins. Why not move the stream as fast as the reader can handle and ship more sorted glass per day? The bit of glass is only going to be in front of the optical device for a fraction of a second.


You're confusing throughput and latency.
 
2013-06-20 05:52:45 AM  
Funny that they'd say they "can't get enough" glass for recycling.  In my hometown, the local recycler stopped taking glass for a while because they couldn't find a user for it.  Before that, the local cement company ground the glass and mixed it into their cement, but then they changed the formula and stopped taking the glass. The recycler is taking glass again, but I'm not sure where it is going, or if it is being reused for new bottles.
 
2013-06-20 05:56:49 AM  

UsikFark: Sometimes I watch manufacturing videos and I'm astonished by how perfectly a machine can do a repetitive action that could only be done by a very lucky human, it's like someone building a machine to make thousands of perfect 3-point shots anywhere on a basketball court. I was never able to program the robotic arm to perfectly pick up and place the dowel in my high school technology class, so I have respect for the engineers who make the machines and programs to do reliable tasks like that.


To add to this it's often surprising to find out that some things you're sure a human put together is in fact done by machines.
 
2013-06-20 05:59:05 AM  
Okay... if you can build a machine that can separate grains of rice based on color I don't know why a similar machine can't separate crumbled glass.
 
2013-06-20 06:20:16 AM  

Mad Scientist: Funny that they'd say they "can't get enough" glass for recycling.  In my hometown, the local recycler stopped taking glass for a while because they couldn't find a user for it.  ...


My city in Michigan takes it and sorts it from other recyclable materials, but currently lacks a buyer for glass, so presumably it's landfilled. They say a typical use when they have a buyer is as "roadbed material."

I read an article about the largest US glass recycling company, based in Texas, that supplies a lot of it to Owens Corning for bottles and fiberglass insulation (they use any color glass for insulation). They're in the can't-get-enough camp, as Texas has a 12% rate of bottle recycling, and the weight of glass makes long transit economically impractical.
 
2013-06-20 06:32:52 AM  

Todd300: Oh goodie, which gif details the chinese kids melting them down?

Or I know, how about a shiny infographic showing how more petro resources go into 'recycling' an item verses disposal?

Want to help the enviroment? Stop buying shiat.


sayeth the person who commented by buying shiat like a computer/smartphone/tablet/etc manufactured by chinese kids.

so much for wanting to help the environment, sweet cheeks.


img.fark.net

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-20 06:40:24 AM  
Salem glass factory ships about 3 million Snapple bottles a day

Holy shiat!
 
2013-06-20 06:44:51 AM  

abhorrent1: Salem glass factory ships about 3 million Snapple bottles a day

Holy shiat!


I used to work for Ball in their Metal Container Division.  They had around a dozen plants nationwide and just our plant made 8.37 million cans every 24 hours.  We did this 360 days a year and sometimes still had to buy cans from our competition to fulfill contractual obligations...

Americans drink a lot of packaged beverages...
 
2013-06-20 06:51:20 AM  

Todd300: Or I know, how about a shiny infographic showing how more petro resources go into 'recycling' an item verses disposal?


OK, now try it in prose.
 
2013-06-20 07:04:48 AM  
Well, I saw this one video of how a new bottle becomes a used bottle.
 
2013-06-20 07:08:27 AM  
Anyone else sing the "How it's made" song while reading that?
 
2013-06-20 07:59:47 AM  
I watched the front loader gif way too long.
 
2013-06-20 08:03:03 AM  
Still don't understand why our soda companies don't use reusable glass bottles like every other country in this world.  That would be much more green then breaking the bottle down and remelting it.
 
2013-06-20 08:03:09 AM  

drewsclues: Anyone else sing the "How it's made" song while reading that?


It has lyrics?
 
2013-06-20 08:06:09 AM  

morgen_benner: abhorrent1: Salem glass factory ships about 3 million Snapple bottles a day

Holy shiat!

I used to work for Ball in their Metal Container Division.  They had around a dozen plants nationwide and just our plant made 8.37 million cans every 24 hours.  We did this 360 days a year and sometimes still had to buy cans from our competition to fulfill contractual obligations...

Americans drink a lot of packaged beverages...


That's like 100 cans a second. That some crazy stuff.
 
2013-06-20 08:08:30 AM  

abhorrent1: morgen_benner: abhorrent1: Salem glass factory ships about 3 million Snapple bottles a day

Holy shiat!

I used to work for Ball in their Metal Container Division.  They had around a dozen plants nationwide and just our plant made 8.37 million cans every 24 hours.  We did this 360 days a year and sometimes still had to buy cans from our competition to fulfill contractual obligations...

Americans drink a lot of packaged beverages...

That's like 100 cans a second. That some crazy stuff.


And yet we wonder why we are so damn fat
 
2013-06-20 08:21:49 AM  
Best damn use of animated GIF's I've ever seen.

Budweiser re-uses it's long necks - at least in the northeast they do.  Policy may vary but around here it the way to go.  When you get charged by the ton to put things in a landfill companies find inventive ways to reuse their materials.
Or hire a "transport" company to dump it by the side of the road in a "desolate" area or demolition site in a city.


It's "desolate" because how desolate can you get in New England as compared to fexas or Arkansas for example
 
2013-06-20 08:34:27 AM  

GoodOmens: Still don't understand why our soda companies don't use reusable glass bottles like every other country in this world.  That would be much more green then breaking the bottle down and remelting it.


This.  All the beer I drank in and around Munich last summer was in reused bottles.  Damn tasty.  Didn't have a second thought about the bottles' various histories.
 
2013-06-20 08:38:14 AM  
I haven't thrown away or recycled a plastic coke/soda/pop bottle in over a year without first reusing it.

I just tell my kids that the used bottles are now "toys"
 
2013-06-20 08:59:03 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: The one thing I don't understand is why we no longer simply reuse bottles, rather than recycling them.  Even when I was a teen, we could still get beer in return bottles and take the empty case back in lieu of the deposit on another one.


Logistics. A truckload of full Snapple bottles is worth a lot more and creates enough profit to be worth shipping across the country, because of what is in the bottle.  A truckload of empty bottles is not since it is mostly empty space.  To be worth shipping that glass back, you have to crush it so you remove the empty space and can fit enough of the product in the truck to even be worth driving it somewhere.

Secondly, nobody except homeless people and hippes wants to deal with bottle deposit programs.  The bottling industry is against them and so are the places that have to deal with them, like convenience stores or wherever.
 
2013-06-20 09:00:41 AM  
Todd300:  more petro resources go into 'recycling' an item verses disposal?

This statement is incorrect.
 
2013-06-20 09:01:40 AM  

Copper Spork: UsikFark: Copper Spork: UsikFark: You would use a very fast optical sensor to pull RGB values from each fragment and sort accordingly, I assume.

Why does it need to be fast? You just place it further back on the conveyor belt.

You could drop a stream of glass pieces through the air and have the blower sort them into bins. Why not move the stream as fast as the reader can handle and ship more sorted glass per day? The bit of glass is only going to be in front of the optical device for a fraction of a second.

You're confusing throughput and latency.


Actually, that's sometimes how it's done. For many applications, the camera is set farther back, the speed of the belt/feeder is constant, and so it works as you suggest, with the camera farther back. I have seen (I believe it was a Dirty Jobs) a machine where, because the product was bouncing/jiggling on the belt, scanning had to be done just as the product was cresting the edge of the belt and beginning its fall. For the life of me, I can't remember the product, but believe it was QC for a food manufacturing process. May have been french fries.
 
2013-06-20 09:02:17 AM  

manimal2878: Secondly, nobody except homeless people and hippes wants to deal with bottle deposit programs. The bottling industry is against them and so are the places that have to deal with them, like convenience stores or wherever.


Yet they often create niche industries, jobs, and help the enviroment

But fark green policies, lets listen to lobbyists instead
 
2013-06-20 09:05:26 AM  

lacydog: Large machines that could do the job would need to be used, but they aren't cost-effective for most towns. You'd have to have one centralized location in a county/MSA to do it effectively, but that increases shipping costs.



T Baggins: UsikFark: Dwight_Yeast: why we no longer simply reuse bottles

Hygiene and flexibility. You would have to clean, test, and sort the old bottles, then send them to the right bottling customer...

Also consumer squeamishness. I've been to countries that reuse glass bottles where it's readily apparent from the scuffed outermost ridges at the top and bottom of the bottles where they brush against one another. I'm sure some people wouldn't like it, and sellers would be concerned with losing those customers.

Sorting isn't that hard. Michigan has a $0.10 deposit on soft drink and beer bottles, so return rates average 97%. Stores that sell beverages have to take back the containers they sell, so most large ones have machines that suck them in on a conveyer, rotate them for lasers to scan the UPC symbol to verify it's a container that they sell, and spit them into the appropriate wheeled bin or chuck it back at the consumer. The beverage distributors are then responsible for taking the containers back from the stores. Granted PepsiCo would have to re-sort them further for re-use, but they could use the same idea on a larger scale.


Which is why bottlers, store chains, and distributors are lobbying day and night to keep any new bottle bills from being introduced and are trying to get rid of them where they do exist.
 
2013-06-20 09:06:22 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: manimal2878: Secondly, nobody except homeless people and hippes wants to deal with bottle deposit programs. The bottling industry is against them and so are the places that have to deal with them, like convenience stores or wherever.

Yet they often create niche industries, jobs, and help the enviroment

But fark green policies, lets listen to lobbyists instead


I'm not saying it's right, I'm just pointing out the reality of why there are not more bottle bills.
 
2013-06-20 09:08:25 AM  

manimal2878: IdBeCrazyIf: manimal2878: Secondly, nobody except homeless people and hippes wants to deal with bottle deposit programs. The bottling industry is against them and so are the places that have to deal with them, like convenience stores or wherever.

Yet they often create niche industries, jobs, and help the enviroment

But fark green policies, lets listen to lobbyists instead

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just pointing out the reality of why there are not more bottle bills.


I know, it's just infuriating to listen to the arguments against when you see clearly successful programs in places like Michigan
 
2013-06-20 09:14:27 AM  

T Baggins: Mad Scientist: Funny that they'd say they "can't get enough" glass for recycling.  In my hometown, the local recycler stopped taking glass for a while because they couldn't find a user for it.  ...

My city in Michigan takes it and sorts it from other recyclable materials, but currently lacks a buyer for glass, so presumably it's landfilled. They say a typical use when they have a buyer is as "roadbed material."

I read an article about the largest US glass recycling company, based in Texas, that supplies a lot of it to Owens Corning for bottles and fiberglass insulation (they use any color glass for insulation). They're in the can't-get-enough camp, as Texas has a 12% rate of bottle recycling, and the weight of glass makes long transit economically impractical.


The problem with glass is that it is heavy to transport.  And the virgin material is sand, almost everyone has sand.  So when these places say they can't get enough of it, what they really mean is they can't get enough of it to recycle cheaper than just making it new.

If it weren't for beer snobs I doubt there would be much of anything still shipped in glass.  The source lightening factored into fuel savings alone in shipping the same product in glass vs plastic or aluminum should rule out glass in most products.  But consumers are not rational, buying things is emotional a lot of the time.
 
2013-06-20 09:22:56 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: manimal2878: IdBeCrazyIf: manimal2878: Secondly, nobody except homeless people and hippes wants to deal with bottle deposit programs. The bottling industry is against them and so are the places that have to deal with them, like convenience stores or wherever.

Yet they often create niche industries, jobs, and help the enviroment

But fark green policies, lets listen to lobbyists instead

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just pointing out the reality of why there are not more bottle bills.

I know, it's just infuriating to listen to the arguments against when you see clearly successful programs in places like Michigan


I work in the waste and recycling industry, I'm frustrated daily, enough so that I'm thinking of going back to teaching in a public school, that's how thankless trying to promote responsible waste policy is.

The best is how, "We the people, of this united states, should not have the government forcing us to pay for recycling."   Yeah, ok, I won't "force" you not to shiat in your yard, or bury trash in your yard either.  Yes, all million of you that live in this county are on your own with basic sanitation and hygiene, good look with the dysentery, we'll be shutting down the public water supply too, since you shouldn't be forced to have to drink clean water either.

Tea Party morons.
 
2013-06-20 09:25:30 AM  
manimal2878:
If it weren't for beer snobs I doubt there would be much of anything still shipped in glass.

True beer snobs should prefer cans.  Modern cans are coated, so no metallic taste.  They are also lightproof, so photochemical "skunky-ness" is completely avoided (brown bottles slow this down, but don't prevent it entirely).
 
2013-06-20 09:32:03 AM  

Mad Scientist: manimal2878:
If it weren't for beer snobs I doubt there would be much of anything still shipped in glass.

True beer snobs should prefer cans.  Modern cans are coated, so no metallic taste.  They are also lightproof, so photochemical "skunky-ness" is completely avoided (brown bottles slow this down, but don't prevent it entirely).


Like I said, a lot of our purchases are not based on rational fact.

How many people buy bottled water?  Despite the fact that water from the tap is cleaner or just as clean as bottled and costs fractions of a penny per gallon.  Talk about irrational purchases.
 
2013-06-20 09:41:22 AM  
 
zez
2013-06-20 09:45:29 AM  

UsikFark: I want to see how cheerios are made. I'm assuming it's not unlike a pasta machine with a rotating cutter, then they bake the little Os. Or they hire fairies to make tiny oat bagels.


Here's a show for you, How It's Madehttp://science.discovery.com/tv-shows/how-its-made/about-this-sho w/abo ut-how-its-made.htm
 
2013-06-20 09:47:51 AM  

manimal2878: How many people buy bottled water? Despite the fact that water from the tap is cleaner or just as clean as bottled and costs fractions of a penny per gallon. Talk about irrational purchases.


To quote Lewis Black

"I don't want it to be that damn convenient, I want to drive and drive and drive and explore for water....like my ancestors"
 
2013-06-20 10:03:28 AM  

UsikFark: I want to see how cheerios are made. I'm assuming it's not unlike a pasta machine with a rotating cutter, then they bake the little Os. Or they hire fairies to make tiny oat bagels.


Cheerios are actually breaded rat buttholes.


/The More You Know
 
2013-06-20 10:18:51 AM  
I save my empties to wing at dirty hippies who hitchhike on the side of the highway because their bio-diesel converted 1967  VM bug broke down on the way to the Phish concert.
 
2013-06-20 10:18:59 AM  

UsikFark: lacydog: glass was not profitable

RTFA. They claim they "can't get enough" recycled glass because it costs way less to melt it down than to make new glass from raw materials.


Well, lacydog does have somewhat of a point.  There is no glass recycling in my area of the state because it isn't profitable enough.  The cost of collection, transport, etc. is greater than the value saved by reusing.

/yes, I live in a relatively remote area of the country
 
2013-06-20 10:20:45 AM  

MythDragon: I save my empties to wing at dirty hippies who hitchhike on the side of the highway because their bio-diesel converted 1967  VM bug broke down on the way to the Phish concert.


And I catch them, recycle them and spend the money on dope, organic food and bootleg Phish tapes.

THANKS MAN!

PEACE!
 
2013-06-20 10:22:03 AM  

airsupport: Cheerios are actually breaded rat buttholes.


That's not bread.
 
2013-06-20 10:58:19 AM  
After carefully placing my glass into my recycle bin, how long does it take till it's a broken mess? Do most of them break as soon as they're dumped into the truck? Who knows.
 
2013-06-20 11:20:07 AM  
In New Zealand, they have something called "swap a crate".  It may be jargon, but the gist is that you bring back the crate (12 bottles) back to the store and you get a discount on the next one you buy.  It certainly encouraged me to hold onto my bottles as opposed to throwing them at baby seals.
 
2013-06-20 12:09:32 PM  

UsikFark: Copper Spork: UsikFark: You would use a very fast optical sensor to pull RGB values from each fragment and sort accordingly, I assume.

Why does it need to be fast? You just place it further back on the conveyor belt.

You could drop a stream of glass pieces through the air and have the blower sort them into bins. Why not move the stream as fast as the reader can handle and ship more sorted glass per day? The bit of glass is only going to be in front of the optical device for a fraction of a second.


Or conversely, convince the public that the color of the glass isn't that goddamn important for most beverages and then just mix the colors up willy-nilly.

I said MOST beverages, beer drinkers.
 
2013-06-20 12:19:10 PM  

greenboy: In New Zealand, they have something called "swap a crate".  It may be jargon, but the gist is that you bring back the crate (12 bottles) back to the store and you get a discount on the next one you buy.  It certainly encouraged me to hold onto my bottles as opposed to throwing them at baby seals.


It works that way at the getraenkemarkts (Drink stores) in Germany as well.  You buy a "rack" (large plastic crate like container) with bottles in it of your drink.  You pay a little extra for the rack initially, but after you've drank everything in it you return the rack and the bottles and get the cost of the rack and a small amount for any returned bottles either back as cash or off your next purchase.  So you end up with a few floating euros at your local getrraenkemarkt tied up in however many racks you have in rotation and how many bottles you have out at a given moment.  It was extremely convenient, and I never minded the obvious wear marks on bottles that had been through several rounds of recycling.

With how uber focused on efficiency Germans typically are I can't imagine that they don't have a model where it works and makes business sense.
 
2013-06-20 12:27:05 PM  

UsikFark: lacydog: glass was not profitable

RTFA. They claim they "can't get enough" recycled glass because it costs way less to melt it down than to make new glass from raw materials.


It's not profitable if it has to be shipped so if there is no plant in the local that can process recycled glass then its basically useless to them.

GoodOmens: Still don't understand why our soda companies don't use reusable glass bottles like every other country in this world.  That would be much more green then breaking the bottle down and remelting it.


Because in most cases making new bottles is cheaper than the cost of transporting, cleaning, sterilizing, sorting etc. the old bottles.
 
2013-06-20 12:30:39 PM  

ReapTheChaos: Because in most cases making new bottles is cheaper than the cost of transporting, cleaning, sterilizing, sorting etc. the old bottles.


Then why does Germany do it with their glass bottles?

I'd buy a "With the way American bottling facilities are distributed and equipped" reason, but I can't imagine that it's just inherently inefficient.
 
2013-06-20 12:45:47 PM  
What a depictive image
 
2013-06-20 12:48:46 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Or conversely, convince the public that the color of the glass isn't that goddamn important for most beverages and then just mix the colors up willy-nilly.


That's not the reason to separate the glass colors.

The chemicals used to give glass different colors cause it to melt and take shape at different temperatures.  Having a bit that did not melt going through your bottle machine meant to work with a certain type of glass will destroy it.
 
2013-06-20 02:47:19 PM  
Shouldn't real animated GIFs have no edits in them?
 
2013-06-20 03:03:06 PM  
I grew up in Michigan.  A fond memory I have as a kid is my Polish grandfather taking the wooden crate of empty "Atlas" brand soda bottles back to the plant, and letting me pick out the flavors we'd take back home (Black Cherry was his favorite, I liked Lime).  I never cared that the bottles we brought back might have been scuffed - it made me think about the how long the bottle lasted.

Here at work, I see people tossing their soda cans and bottles in the trash all the time, when we have a big blue recycling can in the kitchen.  People who claim recycling doesn't work - blame the people who aren't using it (World War II showed the huge recycling programs - paper, rubber, tin, etc - helped provide materials to be used again).
 
2013-06-20 03:11:35 PM  
Those who have posted about the recycled glass programs in Germany neglect one very important aspect -- population density.  Germany has ~80M people in a country the size of Montana, ca. 609 people per square mile.  Only New Jersey, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Maryland have that level of density. 35 out of 50 states have less than a third of that, and the overall density of the US is ~ 88.08 inhabitants per square mile.  As many point out, transporting empty glass isn't free, and when manufacturing and distribution are as distant as they are in the US (not to mention the logistics of transport, cleaning, and re-use) the overall feasibility of such a system drops significantly.  And, on top of that, many beers and other bottled beverages come in the same container, so Company X can clean and use bottles that came from Company Y, and vice-versa, but for that to work on US companies, they would have to agree to use a single bottle-type, or on a selection of similar bottles (I do acknowledge that Coca-cola has such a foothold in Europe and elsewhere that they use their own unique-shaped bottles for deposit bottles, but many beers come in a familiar 0,5l brown bottle where the brewer adds the beer, label, and bottlecap.)
 
2013-06-20 03:29:38 PM  

bjorky: Those who have posted about the recycled glass programs in Germany neglect one very important aspect -- population density.  Germany has ~80M people in a country the size of Montana, ca. 609 people per square mile.  Only New Jersey, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Maryland have that level of density. 35 out of 50 states have less than a third of that, and the overall density of the US is ~ 88.08 inhabitants per square mile.  As many point out, transporting empty glass isn't free, and when manufacturing and distribution are as distant as they are in the US (not to mention the logistics of transport, cleaning, and re-use) the overall feasibility of such a system drops significantly.  And, on top of that, many beers and other bottled beverages come in the same container, so Company X can clean and use bottles that came from Company Y, and vice-versa, but for that to work on US companies, they would have to agree to use a single bottle-type, or on a selection of similar bottles (I do acknowledge that Coca-cola has such a foothold in Europe and elsewhere that they use their own unique-shaped bottles for deposit bottles, but many beers come in a familiar 0,5l brown bottle where the brewer adds the beer, label, and bottlecap.)


Sure state by state that density doesn't carry very well, but certainly in places such as New York City even though the state wide density doesn't support it the regional density should.  There's a lot of empty space in upstate New York to skew that number down for the overall state (or a small and very populated area to skew it up, depending on your view).

If we assume that once an area has more than X people per square mile that a bottle reuse program could be more cost efficient than a bottle recycling program, why once we have an area past X people per square mile don't we do it?  Or do we and we just don't realize it?
 
2013-06-20 03:54:42 PM  

NkThrasher: Sure state by state that density doesn't carry very well, but certainly in places such as New York City even though the state wide density doesn't support it the regional density should.  There's a lot of empty space in upstate New York to skew that number down for the overall state (or a small and very populated area to skew it up, depending on your view).

If we assume that once an area has more than X people per square mile that a bottle reuse program could be more cost efficient than a bottle recycling program, why once we have an area past X people per square mile don't we do it?  Or do we and we just don't realize it?


The argument about population density is to point out that there are reasons such a program would work in a place like Germany (where no point in the entire country is more than 876km (544 mi.) from any other, ) and that the country has an overall density of consumers that make such a program practicable.  If you were to build 50 bottle re-use centers in Germany equidistant from each other in the most efficient way possible, each center would service 2756 square miles, or approximately 1.6M consumers per center, servicing the entire country.  Contrast that with placing a center near the 50 largest US cities (and presume that this method is efficient for dealing with all of the bottles within those cities), you have service to a population of ~50-60M total, and that leaves no service to 240-250M other Americans. Even if you inflate that number by 100% by the notion that such a bottle recycling center would service twice as many people in the area as there are in the city's population (suburbs and nearby areas), you still have no service for 2/3 of the country -- and a country that is not at all close together.  When looking at large population cities, the states of Delaware, Maine, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming don't even have cities over 100,000.
 
2013-06-20 03:58:11 PM  
Was I the only one who thought of Phillip Glass music?
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2013-06-20 04:09:31 PM  

bjorky: The argument about population density is to point out that there are reasons such a program would work in a place like Germany (where no point in the entire country is more than 876km (544 mi.) from any other, ) and that the country has an overall density of consumers that make such a program practicable.  If you were to build 50 bottle re-use centers in Germany equidistant from each other in the most efficient way possible, each center would service 2756 square miles, or approximately 1.6M consumers per center, servicing the entire country.  Contrast that with placing a center near the 50 largest US cities (and presume that this method is efficient for dealing with all of the bottles within those cities), you have service to a population of ~50-60M total, and that leaves no service to 240-250M other Americans. Even if you inflate that number by 100% by the notion that such a bottle recycling center would service twice as many people in the area as there are in the city's population (suburbs and nearby areas), you still have no service for 2/3 of the country -- and a country that is not at all close together.  When looking at large population cities, the states of Delaware, Maine, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming don't even have cities over 100,000.


Well yes, the areas outside those cities would use a system like what is used now, this obviously isn't an all or nothing operation.

The question is why wouldn't drink producing companies want to do this for large population centers?
 
2013-06-20 04:41:20 PM  

Todd300: Oh goodie, which gif details the chinese kids melting them down?

Or I know, how about a shiny infographic showing how more petro resources go into 'recycling' an item verses disposal?

Want to help the enviroment? Stop buying shiat.


Want to post in a thread with coming off as an ignorant moron? Start reading the articles first.

I would guess that there aren't a lot of Chinese kids working in a glass factory in Salem, New Jersey. There's also this quote from the factory's GM "Recycled glass melts at a lower temperature than the raw materials used to make glass from scratch. So more recycled glass means huge energy savings."
 
2013-06-20 08:10:21 PM  

NkThrasher: ReapTheChaos: Because in most cases making new bottles is cheaper than the cost of transporting, cleaning, sterilizing, sorting etc. the old bottles.

Then why does Germany do it with their glass bottles?

I'd buy a "With the way American bottling facilities are distributed and equipped" reason, but I can't imagine that it's just inherently inefficient.


That must be something new because when I was in Germany they never reused bottles, between me and my friends we went through a ton of beer and not one of them was in a returnable bottle.
 
2013-06-21 11:37:50 AM  
For all of you people worrying about how to handle your empty beer bottles, start brewing or find a friend that brews. And if you're between batches, only buy the ones with pop tops, not pisswater in twisties.

Everything with homebrew has to be sterilized anyway, so as long as you give them a quick rinse when you drink it, your local homebrewer can probably find a use (unless she's moved on to kegs or something).
 
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