great_tigers: Because health cost benefits have decreased for those working. An MRI for my wife three years ago would have been an out of pocket cost of 100 bucks. Now it is 1100, we are too scared to see what her hip surgery will cost. We are choosing to deal with it.
o5iiawah: Just raise the top income tax rate, levy a tax on so-called 'Cadillac' health plans, levy a tax on medical devices, Raid the VA and tri-care budget, take money out of medicare and put all that into the offset of consumer costs. In other words, Raise taxes and use it to subsidize costs. Ooh! but look at all the money I save!firefly212: The reality for these towns is that taxes should be slightly higher, high enough that civil servants and public employees can feed their families, pay their mortgage AND go to the doctors office when they are sick. These aren't wacky demands from some lazy welfare queensSo an able bodied man (A) owes a percentage of his wage to another able bodied man (B) how? Please explain the origin of that debt. What then does B owe to A upon A's request? B willingly chose to purchase a home and start a family. Why is it fair to A that he has to labor not only for his own family but for B?
Iron Felix: Try going to work for a great company with a great insurance plan. Then you get laid off unexpectedly and cobra costs your family $1900/month. Healthcare in the US is an absolute joke.
big pig peaches: Dusk-You-n-Me: Wolfmanjames: Forgive me, subby if I fail to trust implicitly a source that declares itself, 'Real Liberal Politics' when it cheers Obamacare.You read that but didn't see their source? The super liberal WSJAnd the WSJ blog got the numbers from the department of labor and we know those guys never play with the numbers to make things look better. Not ever.
MisterRonbo: Demonrats: If you want to lower health care costs stop serving people who can't afford it.Only if you're willing to deny them *all* care, including emergency care. You're having a heart attack? No treatment for you. Just got mugged and stabbed? No insurance? You can lay there and die.Otherwise, you're wrong. Very, very obviously proven-by-every-other-industrialized-country wrong.And its glaringly obvious. Typical American over 50: overweight, high blood pressure. You could give them four doctor visits a year and some meds, as part of an insurance policy that costs $4K or $5K a year. And if the person can afford to pay part of that, even better. They keep working and paying taxes.Or just wait. Let them have a heart attack. Lay out $50K if they die fast, $100K or more if they don't. Might be in a convalescent home for a couple of decades. Not hard to rack up even higher costs if they survive, but barely.Its as if you were paying $50 a month for internet access. The city you live in found out they could buy one contract to give everybody access, and your bill would drop to $40 a month. But you don't like it, because some poors would be getting it for free, and why should you pay for them.
Fart_Machine: firefly212: Sorry, did I link an article somewhere? Because I didn't mean to if I did...Unless your name is Dusk-You-n-Me you didn't. That's the poster who linked the article which says..."The rate of growth in healthcare costs slowed predictably during the recession... PwC's Health Research Institute expects that trend to continue not only as the economy continues to improve, but after the healthcare law brings millions of uninsured people into the healthcare system, driving up demand."Take it up with these guys.
great_tigers: Tuna fingers,My computer is messed up so I can't reply directly to your post. Three years ago I was with the same company, a dmepos. We are having reimbursements decline and claims denied so incredibly much. We went from one of the best companies to work for with many fringe benefits to one that has taken away every benefit but salary and insurance. Our insurance has gone through the roof, we are on pace to have half of our work force this December from one year ago. Please, tell me how I am full of shiat when I watch my wife struggle in pain every day with pain and knowing we could be foreclosed if we do not have a payment plan set up with the surgical site. The orthopedic surgeon that would do her surgery is a client of mine, he knows the struggle we have but is mandated by the hospital to charge the full amount.
big pig peaches: And the WSJ blog got the numbers from the department of labor and we know those guys never play with the numbers to make things look better. Not ever.
Wolfmanjames: Forgive me, subby if I fail to trust implicitly a source that declares itself, 'Real Liberal Politics' when it cheers Obamacare.
porterm: they will trot out any darn pony they can to make this look like a good deal
RyanAntiHero: Yeah, I find it hard to take an article seriously when the site header is "Real Liberal Politics" and it's praising of something Liberals did. Very much like I would feel the same about a site that boasted "Real Conservative Politics". They both translate to "Real Deluded Morons" to me.
firefly212: That wasn't my argument at all, my argument wasn't about "making everyone's lives better"... it was about paying public sector employees fair wages. Where the fark did you get that from?
Fart_Machine: So you didn't say what was quoted above?
Fart_Machine: And now you've shifted to "provide an amount of value to the company" instead of that you are an asset that makes them money (which is entirely subjective).
Demonrats: If you want to lower health care costs stop serving people who can't afford it.
o5iiawah: Why would I ask for less money? my labor provides value to the company which they then use to make money.
o5iiawah: This has nothing to do with the original point which was "If a guy wants to own a house and have a family, thats his right and someone else has to pay for it"
dmax: inglixthemad: His biggest complaint was that the new generation wanted the perks (pay, prestige, et al.) without being willing to work the hard hours. He was a real old school doctor: house calls, being woken up in the middle of the night for emergencies, being on call as an Ob-Gyn, et al. Long hours and few vacations for 30 years. He knew how to rip an insurance rep a new strip as well.Too bad more docs aren't like him, the medical profession would be all the better.In a world where the country is fully insured, fewer people end up in the ED for their colds. They get preventative care so the polyp is removed, not the cancer. They're more employable.And we'll need a buttload of primary care docs to do that grunt work. We're about to see Medicine become a very middle-class job. Not many smart people will want to put up with the demanding, self-destructive, undereducated patients that are 'Merica. And even fewer smart people will want to deal with the mandatory billing and insurance requirements to get adequate compensation. And even the stupid people won't want to deal with the frivolous lawsuits that are commonplace.So, good luck to us all in 20 years. Our doctors will be rushed, undereducated, and overwhelmed.And that is not Obama's fault, truly. It's the media, that teaches our population to be stupid and dependent.
dmax: So, good luck to us all in 20 years. Our doctors will be rushed, undereducated, and overwhelmed.
o5iiawah: I never said that.
o5iiawah: So an able bodied man (A) owes a percentage of his wage to another able bodied man (B) how?
o5iiawah: Fart_Machine: But your salary is taking money away from the shareholders and the company. I'm sure there are families involved too. Why don't you ask for less money and do what's right by them.I really dont think you know what a job is, or how it works.
o5iiawah: but where your argument breaks down is in this moronic belief that if we keep raising taxes and distribute it out to people that they will spend it and it will be good. You and others ignore where that money came from and what hit a family or individual takes when taxes are raised.
machoprogrammer: Iron Felix: Try going to work for a great company with a great insurance plan. Then you get laid off unexpectedly and cobra costs your family $1900/month. Healthcare in the US is an absolute joke.This is why I don't like ACA. It seems almost like a handout to insurance companies. You HAVE to have health insurance or you pay a tax? Just nationalize it already, since you are forcing people to pay out the ass for insurance now or pay a tax.
hasty ambush: Meanwhile in the real world:Local Governments Reeling Under ObamaCare CostsBirmingham, Mich. Commissioner Gordon Rinschler may have summed up best the reaction that countless businesses and governments are having to ObamaCare, saying: "We simply can't afford the Affordable Care Act."
Dinobot: theknuckler_33: Dinobot: I aint seeing it. My insurance went up by 20% and I havent even used it at all in 5 yearsWithout context your statement is meaningless. Do you buy individual insurance or through your employer? Did your plan change? If employer plan, did your employer change their contribution towards the premium?FYI, insurance premiums have been rising at an alarming rate for many years prior to "Obamacare".through my employer. no, the contribution actually went up, but many people at work use the insurance... so the rates go up for everyone, which kind of sucks.
The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I think it was Karl Marx who said, "Decent health care for the working class is the true path to Communism."
OnlyM3: *it's California, so obviously the fault of "republicans".
Deep Contact: Imagine how low health care would be if health insurance was outlawed.
machoprogrammer: It seems almost like a handout to insurance companies.
firefly212: Fart_Machine: Dusk-You-n-Me: The Hill highlights a new report from PricewaterhouseCoopers showing that "medical inflation will likely fall to 6.5 percent next year - a 50 year low." LinkMakes sense considering how much the pool of recipients will grow.THATS NOT HOW INFLATION METRICS WORK!Seriously, this is like a farking technical engineering thread with a bunch of literature majors commenting about how they don't think SN curves accurately describe material fatigue.
Brick-House: Sure does smell like bull shiat in here.
js34603: So what specifically did the ACA implement that resulted in these lower costs?It hasn't even been fully put into effect yet. So what part of what has been implemented led to lower costs?
Dusk-You-n-Me: Wolfmanjames: Forgive me, subby if I fail to trust implicitly a source that declares itself, 'Real Liberal Politics' when it cheers Obamacare.You read that but didn't see their source? The super liberal WSJ
Benjimin_Dover: So an article gives credit to something that hasn't gone into effect yet and people are lapping it up like dooshes. Just another repeat of the same old dog and pony show.
rkiller1: A one month year-over-year decrease in the medical costs inflation RATE does not a reduction make.
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