theknuckler_33: Stupid libs. Ever hear of the clam before the storm? The storm is coming and when it come it will be shoved down our throats!
inglixthemad: His biggest complaint was that the new generation wanted the perks (pay, prestige, et al.) without being willing to work the hard hours. He was a real old school doctor: house calls, being woken up in the middle of the night for emergencies, being on call as an Ob-Gyn, et al. Long hours and few vacations for 30 years. He knew how to rip an insurance rep a new strip as well.Too bad more docs aren't like him, the medical profession would be all the better.
Fart_Machine: I really don't think you know how inane your arguments are when put in front of you.
tuna fingers: great_tigers: Because health cost benefits have decreased for those working. An MRI for my wife three years ago would have been an out of pocket cost of 100 bucks. Now it is 1100, we are too scared to see what her hip surgery will cost. We are choosing to deal with it.Good for you!I'm glad you are opting for choice.I call bullshiat.Three years ago, your wife was probably employed and now she isn't. Or some other piece of the puzzle is missing.
o5iiawah: I never said that.
o5iiawah: So an able bodied man (A) owes a percentage of his wage to another able bodied man (B) how?
dmax: So, good luck to us all in 20 years. Our doctors will be rushed, undereducated, and overwhelmed.
Evil High Priest: If only there were an interweb around when Social Security or Medicaid went into effect. Oh, the massive butthurt. And by year two it was the greatest thing ever. Good luck, fascists.
This program could destroy private initiative for our aged to protect themselves with insurance against the cost of illness....Presently, over 60 percent of our older citizens purchase hospital and medical insurance without Government assistance. This private effort would cease if Government benefits were given to all our older citizens.- Sen. Milward Simpson (R-WY).08/08/1965 We oppose the Medicare program because foreign experience has shown that socialized medicine is harmful to both the doctor and the patient, primarily to the patient. He suffers most.- Harry E. Northam, director of the Association of American Physicians.04/11/1965 ...we cannot stand idly by now, as the Nation is urged to embark on an ill-conceived adventure in government medicine, the end of which no one can see, and from which the patient is certain to be the ultimate sufferer.- Rep. Durward Hall (R-MO).04/08/1965[The Medicare bill would] set up a health care program which served little or no necessary social purpose and which would be a direct, unwarranted and completely unfair intrusion in private enterprise.-Dr. Clifford H. Keene, Kaiser Foundation Health Plan....the result of such programs in other countries had been over utilization of facilities and rising costs, and that as emphasis shifted from quality to cost, as it must under a publicly financed program, a deterioration in the quality of care is inescapable.-Dr. Donovan Ward, President, American Medical Association. 04/01/1965It is socialism. It moves the country in a direction which is not good for anyone, whether they be young or old. It charts a course from which there will be no turning back.-"Senator Carl Curtis (R-NE), 1965.
Will you resist the temptation to get a government handout for your community? Realize that the doctor's fight against socialized medicine is your fight. We can't socialize the doctors without socializing the patients. Recognize that government invasion of public power is eventually an assault upon your own business.- Ronald Reagan
dmax: inglixthemad: His biggest complaint was that the new generation wanted the perks (pay, prestige, et al.) without being willing to work the hard hours. He was a real old school doctor: house calls, being woken up in the middle of the night for emergencies, being on call as an Ob-Gyn, et al. Long hours and few vacations for 30 years. He knew how to rip an insurance rep a new strip as well.Too bad more docs aren't like him, the medical profession would be all the better.In a world where the country is fully insured, fewer people end up in the ED for their colds. They get preventative care so the polyp is removed, not the cancer. They're more employable.And we'll need a buttload of primary care docs to do that grunt work. We're about to see Medicine become a very middle-class job. Not many smart people will want to put up with the demanding, self-destructive, undereducated patients that are 'Merica. And even fewer smart people will want to deal with the mandatory billing and insurance requirements to get adequate compensation. And even the stupid people won't want to deal with the frivolous lawsuits that are commonplace.So, good luck to us all in 20 years. Our doctors will be rushed, undereducated, and overwhelmed.And that is not Obama's fault, truly. It's the media, that teaches our population to be stupid and dependent.
o5iiawah: Why would I ask for less money? my labor provides value to the company which they then use to make money.
o5iiawah: This has nothing to do with the original point which was "If a guy wants to own a house and have a family, thats his right and someone else has to pay for it"
Demonrats: Nadia Suleman should be living in a cardboard house with her 14 children. She used money designated for college to get preggers with 8 kids after she already had 6. The liberal Farker will gladly let her use tax money to reward her with a house, medical care, and food so she can possibly have a few more kids. Why not? Its what Fark Jesus would do.
Fart_Machine: except you don't think they deserve a decent wage
o5iiawah: They should be paid a fair wage based on the compensation of similar trades/jobs in the area.
Fart_Machine: Everybody thinks they're the cog that holds the machine together.
Fart_Machine: Both you and the public employee are paid by their employer except you don't think they deserve a decent wage because taxes!!111 (which they pay as well).
themindiswatching: Maybe, but her kids didn't ask to be born. Why not help the kids in the hope that they won't be as farked up?
o5iiawah: I'd be inclined to go longer with you, if 8 of the top 11 wealthiest counties in the USA weren't in DC.
o5iiawah: There's a scroll function to the right since yours obviously doensn't work.
o5iiawah: Strawman (No surprise). I never said I was indispensable - just that my labor provided an amount of value to the company which they willingly pay for.
o5iiawah: And the point that keeps going over your head is that I cannot go to my employer and say, "I have a family to feed and a mortgage to pay, so I need more money."
dropdfun: jaayjones: Wifes insurance went up 13% leaving me confused about the lower cost?Now I don't feel so bad about our 9% increase. Also sucks that all our co pays have increased dramatically.
o5iiawah: like watching the dachshund try to mount and have his way with a sheep.
firefly212: o5iiawah: Just raise the top income tax rate, levy a tax on so-called 'Cadillac' health plans, levy a tax on medical devices, Raid the VA and tri-care budget, take money out of medicare and put all that into the offset of consumer costs. In other words, Raise taxes and use it to subsidize costs. Ooh! but look at all the money I save!firefly212: The reality for these towns is that taxes should be slightly higher, high enough that civil servants and public employees can feed their families, pay their mortgage AND go to the doctors office when they are sick. These aren't wacky demands from some lazy welfare queensSo an able bodied man (A) owes a percentage of his wage to another able bodied man (B) how? Please explain the origin of that debt. What then does B owe to A upon A's request? B willingly chose to purchase a home and start a family. Why is it fair to A that he has to labor not only for his own family but for B?Yes, you owe tax money from your wages to the government... You owe for police, you owe for fire, you owe for ambulances, you owe for roads that enable you to get to work, you owe for roads that enable your product to go to consumers from your work, you owe for the streetlights that owe those streets. The people who do those works, who do those jobs, are owed money, by you, for the performance of their duties.Jesus Christ, are you like farking 4 or something?
healthcare costs fell for the first time in forty years.
Satanic_Hamster: 2farknfunny: I assume this will be the night's shortest thread.We could have a thread on all the women you've pleased sexually.
themindiswatching: Demonrats: Nadia Suleman should be living in a cardboard house with her 14 children. She used money designated for college to get preggers with 8 kids after she already had 6. The liberal Farker will gladly let her use tax money to reward her with a house, medical care, and food so she can possibly have a few more kids. Why not? Its what Fark Jesus would do.Maybe, but her kids didn't ask to be born. Why not help the kids in the hope that they won't be as farked up?
Demonrats: If you want to lower health care costs stop serving people who can't afford it.
MisterRonbo: Demonrats: If you want to lower health care costs stop serving people who can't afford it.Only if you're willing to deny them *all* care, including emergency care. You're having a heart attack? No treatment for you. Just got mugged and stabbed? No insurance? You can lay there and die.Otherwise, you're wrong. Very, very obviously proven-by-every-other-industrialized-country wrong.And its glaringly obvious. Typical American over 50: overweight, high blood pressure. You could give them four doctor visits a year and some meds, as part of an insurance policy that costs $4K or $5K a year. And if the person can afford to pay part of that, even better. They keep working and paying taxes.Or just wait. Let them have a heart attack. Lay out $50K if they die fast, $100K or more if they don't. Might be in a convalescent home for a couple of decades. Not hard to rack up even higher costs if they survive, but barely.Its as if you were paying $50 a month for internet access. The city you live in found out they could buy one contract to give everybody access, and your bill would drop to $40 a month. But you don't like it, because some poors would be getting it for free, and why should you pay for them.
xaveth: rkiller1: A one month year-over-year decrease in the medical costs inflation RATE does not a reduction make. Call me when medical prices are falling or when it's -1C in Hell.Why do you hate Hope n Change? You must be racist.
dickfreckle: Look man, if you want to talk sh*t about Obama, go ahead. I do it all the time and I voted for the guy. Just make sure you have some specific grievances, or others will wonder what the motivation is
whidbey: HURR after the NSA SCANDAL, if you are still supporting the DEMOCRATS you are a PARTISAN SHILL DURR Obama=BUSH DERPDERPDERPDERP
o5iiawah: firefly212: Yes, you owe tax money from your wages to the government... You owe for police, you owe for fire, you owe for ambulances, you owe for roads that enable you to get to work, you owe for roads that enable your product to go to consumers from your work, you owe for the streetlights that owe those streets. The people who do those works, who do those jobs, are owed money, by you, for the performance of their duties.Jesus Christ, are you like farking 4 or something?That question flew over your head apparently.Your initial argument was that we should raise taxes to make everyone's lives better so they can afford families that they willingly started and mortgages that they willingly signed. You then came back with saying that taxes fund streetlights, etc. I have no issue with taxes funding the legitimate functions of government.Try again without strapping an Atlas Rocket booster to the goalposts - Unless of course your end point is that taxes should be unlimited to fund whatever lifestyle choices anyone in society wishes to take on.
Forbidden Doughnut: It would be interesting to compare how the UK and Canada got to where they are, in terms of nationalized health care, to the USA; all three, IIRC, were entirely fee-for-service a century ago...
Deep Contact: Imagine how low health care would be if health insurance was outlawed.
Infernalist: Republicans would deny everyone access to something because someone, somewhere, is taking advantage of the system.
StopLurkListen: StopLurkListen: rkiller1: A one month year-over-year decrease in the medical costs inflation RATE does not a reduction make.Valid point, but I don't know which point is true, the article is inconsistent.Ah, the original WSJ is a lot clearer " The Labor Department's price index for medical care [...] fell a seasonally adjusted 0.1% in May. The leading driver of last month's drop was a 0.6% contraction in prescription-drug costs "
Harry_Seldon: Satanic_Hamster: 2farknfunny: I assume this will be the night's shortest thread.We could have a thread on all the women you've pleased sexually.Leave your Mom out of it.
TheEvilOne23: This coming from a site that touts its self as "Real Liberal" and an ass kisser of Obama's. Pardon me if I call bullshiat on it.
Pick: On what planet did this occur? Mine went up. Must be referring to the slackers that are on Medicaid.
Thunderpipes: Holy fail article batman.Government paying less to doctors and hospitals, consumers paying more cost out of pocket = health care costs getting lower?Freakin libs.
firefly212: That wasn't my argument at all, my argument wasn't about "making everyone's lives better"... it was about paying public sector employees fair wages. Where the fark did you get that from?
Fart_Machine: So you didn't say what was quoted above?
Fart_Machine: And now you've shifted to "provide an amount of value to the company" instead of that you are an asset that makes them money (which is entirely subjective).
Dusk-You-n-Me: Wolfmanjames: Forgive me, subby if I fail to trust implicitly a source that declares itself, 'Real Liberal Politics' when it cheers Obamacare.You read that but didn't see their source? The super liberal WSJ
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