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7030 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Jun 2013 at 6:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-20 01:02:38 AM
Microsoft's Major Nelson said in an interview recently that Sony's PS4 console isn't going to make them change anything about their Xbox One system.

The PS4 pretty much beat out the Xbox One in positive press this week with it's lack of used game DRM, lack of 24-hour check-ins, and price tag. When asked if these announcements by Sony will influence Microsoft and make them change what they're doing with Xbox One he had this to say:

"I don't think,... I mean we're really not going to change anything we've done with Xbox One. We're very happy,... did you see the games on stage during our briefing? Did you see the exclusives? I mean we're really really proud of the system and the games that are coming out. When you look at games like TitanFall,... have you gone through Titanfall yet? Enough said. Conversation over. We're really happy with what we showed on stage as well as what we're showing here in the booth so I think it is uh,... it's safe to say that we're confident where we're going. We're also confident that gamers are going to love our vision of the future and what we're going to offer for gaming"

Nelson seems a bit on the defensive here and I feel sympathy for him. I've always liked him personally and his job just got a lot harder with all the controversial policies of the Xbox One.

Of course, even if Microsoft planned to change something about the Xbox One in response to Sony's PS4 they wouldn't make that decision so quickly and wouldn't admit it was Sony that influenced it. Still, they seem very proud of everything they're doing with the Xbox One and hopefully when the system releases they tweak a few of their policies for the better.


Major Nelson on June 15th

Less than a month since the reveal and they back peddle almost entirely. It's almost surreal.
 
2013-06-20 01:16:45 AM

Thisbymaster: Kill the kinect and chop off 150 dollars, make netflix and other video/audio services function without your shiatty xbox live subscription.  And get Kingdom Heart 3, then I will buy you.


1 out 4,  KH3 is coming to XB1.
 
2013-06-20 01:38:34 AM
I think a number of the commenters on the verge have good points as to why this "about face" sucks.

"Roku: Further proof that Twitter and Reddit are destroying the world. We just saw a beautiful digital download future where finished games could be resold/given to friends and entire game libraries could be shared across the country sacrificed at the alter of physical media. Can't even understand why anyone would buy digital downloads now that they have no ability to be shared or resold like disc copies. And even people buying discs lose because now they have to swap discs every time they want to play a game.
Everyone except people without internet access lost today. And even they will eventually realize they lost when they realize all new AAA games are being built as persistent online games.
We've all just gone backwards to a 1980's business model."

"Discs were not worthless under their policy, they were being treated as equal to digital downloads. I was still going to buy most of my games on discs so that I would have the flexibility to share/resell the game via online or in person. You still had the benefit of giving someone a physical gift as well as the ability to trade in the game at Gamestop. Now digital downloads are completely worthless. There is literally no sense in buying a copy of a game online when you can't share it or resell it. All the progress that was being made in digital distribution has been lost now."


The dude has a point. Why would you buy a digital copy on the next generation console, since you can't swap or sell the game? If it were up to the tech whiners, we'll be stuck with disk swapping and disk based DRM & keys for the next couple decades.

I wish they would have gone with a less backward approach, and offer "offline" versions of physical games for people to play while away from the internet (military, cabins, etc). At least in my situation, and most folks these days, broadband isn't that hard to find. shiat, I have 100Mbps fiber at work, 35 Mbps DSL or cable at home, Clearwire's WiMax gives me 25 Mbps even out on my boat,  and even my cell phone has a ping of 82 and download speeds between 9 and 18 Mbps - and I live out in the middle of farm fields. Even if you're way out in the middle of nowhere, you can get decent internet via satellite - like my parents do out in the mountains.

If you say you can't get any internet above dial-up, and you live in the lower 48 states, you're not even trying - or a poor ass sucker who can't afford a $500 console in the first place.
 
2013-06-20 01:38:55 AM
Q: Does Xbox One require an "always on" Internet connection?
A: No, it does not have to be always connected, but Xbox One does require a connection to the Internet.


Still fail.

Q: Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games?
A: We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We'll have more details to share later.


"...but it will not be in the way you are used to doing it; i.e., simply doing it. We'll have a proprietary system for doing so. Suck it.

Q: Why require Kinect with every Xbox One?
A: The all new Kinect is now an essential and integrated part of the platform.


"Because we're assholes."

/fail
//Fail
///FAIL
 
2013-06-20 01:44:59 AM

MrSteve007: I think a number of the commenters on the verge have good points as to why this "about face" sucks.


They and you assumed that MS would have implemented this in a way that didn't utterly screw over the consumer.

I mean, it's nice that you're optimistic, but do you really thing freakin' Microsoft could be trusted with the power to decide how and if you could trade, lend or resell games?
 
2013-06-20 01:50:11 AM
Cliffy B is a twatbag.

/you're cliffy b, thats what you wanted and thats what you'll aways be
 
2013-06-20 01:51:46 AM
MrSteve007: I wish they would have gone with a less backward approach, and offer "offline" versions of physical games for people to play while away from the internet (military, cabins, etc). At least in my situation, and most folks these days, broadband isn't that hard to find.

From previous threads, here's my take on how it should have been IMHO

1) Each disk has a unique key.
2) If you physically have the disk present, you can play whenever you want (no check in required).
3) You can install the disk to the drive (keeps track of the key, tied to your console and gamertag).
4) You can play the game without the disk present (on any console, with your gamertag), but it requires a check in.
5) If that disk gets used in another console, then the copy you have on disk is invalidated (and your next check in fails ... but insert the disk to validate it again).

So

If you don't want it to phone home, disable it, and insert the discs in order to play games..
If you don't care about it phoning home, you can install all of your games, and play any of them from the HD without the disk.
If you go to a friends house, take the disc (no phone home).
If you go to a friends house, take your gamertag (phone home).

//etc etc devil in the details
 
2013-06-20 01:53:58 AM

Gunther: MrSteve007: I think a number of the commenters on the verge have good points as to why this "about face" sucks.

They and you assumed that MS would have implemented this in a way that didn't utterly screw over the consumer.

I mean, it's nice that you're optimistic, but do you really thing freakin' Microsoft could be trusted with the power to decide how and if you could trade, lend or resell games?


Microsoft has a pretty good record with digital content and distribution. I've had a Zune music pass for about 7 years now. $14 a month for unlimited music downloads to 5 mobile devices, 5 workstations, any Xbox I'm signed into, unlimited music videos, and live streaming from any web browser I sign in from. Oh, and 10 high quality DRM free mp3 tracks each month. I still have an account, even though it's now called Xbox Music. It's always been light years ahead of any other music service out there. The only major DRM requirement is that my subscription music needs to "check in" once every 30 days or so on my offline, portable devices.

I could easily foresee them offering something similar with digital game distribution/rental for a set fee like $25 a month. They already have the experience in-house and their own game studios to sign on first.
 
2013-06-20 01:57:37 AM

lordargent: MrSteve007: I wish they would have gone with a less backward approach, and offer "offline" versions of physical games for people to play while away from the internet (military, cabins, etc). At least in my situation, and most folks these days, broadband isn't that hard to find.

From previous threads, here's my take on how it should have been IMHO

1) Each disk has a unique key.
2) If you physically have the disk present, you can play whenever you want (no check in required).
3) You can install the disk to the drive (keeps track of the key, tied to your console and gamertag).
4) You can play the game without the disk present (on any console, with your gamertag), but it requires a check in.
5) If that disk gets used in another console, then the copy you have on disk is invalidated (and your next check in fails ... but insert the disk to validate it again).

So

If you don't want it to phone home, disable it, and insert the discs in order to play games..
If you don't care about it phoning home, you can install all of your games, and play any of them from the HD without the disk.
If you go to a friends house, take the disc (no phone home).
If you go to a friends house, take your gamertag (phone home).

//etc etc devil in the details


I have a feeling that's how they're going to adapt the system in the coming years. Some will complain that it's too complicated, but at least it would offer diskless play from physically installed media.
 
2013-06-20 01:59:06 AM

Gunther: MrSteve007: I think a number of the commenters on the verge have good points as to why this "about face" sucks.

They and you assumed that MS would have implemented this in a way that didn't utterly screw over the consumer.

I mean, it's nice that you're optimistic, but do you really thing freakin' Microsoft could be trusted with the power to decide how and if you could trade, lend or resell games?


This is whats so amazing to me. All this time, in all these game threads, i thought the shills were in full force. Turns out it was just a bunch of people who actually wanted restrictive drm built into their consoles. Strange...
 
2013-06-20 02:14:06 AM
Are they still going to let EA and others gut users who buy older/used games by requiring an extra fee to unlock the whole game?

I think I'm skipping both consoles for pretty much that reason.  Not that I play EA games, or buy many used games.  Still just feels skeevy to profit more than once per disk and for MS to turn their head the other way when it happens(or do it themselves for their own games).

Also, Kinnect.  I'm not paranoid, but I don't want to have it staring at me, or to have to talk to it to make my xbox function.

The controllers got all wonky as well.

Are we going to get better security, IE no cheating on games like CoD by modding the gamerprofile?

Meh, if I break down and get one, it'll be in a year or more anyhow and will know most of this by then.
 
2013-06-20 02:14:28 AM
Well, now that the sheeple will buy that piece of crap, they will reintroduce those features in 6 months to a year.
 
2013-06-20 02:23:06 AM
Cloud cloud cloud. Cloud the cloud?

/C
/L
/O
/U
/D
 
2013-06-20 02:35:27 AM
Keep your goddamn money away from these people. They're the corporate version of a nigerian prince.

I wish I was joking.
 
2013-06-20 02:51:13 AM

ThatDarkFellow: Cliffy B is a twatbag.

/you're cliffy b, thats what you wanted and thats what you'll aways be


I'm not surprised that Rob Liefeld Cliffy B is shilling for XB1. If no one buys the console, then who's going to buy Gears Of War 4?
 
2013-06-20 02:51:36 AM

ThatDarkFellow: Cliffy B is a twatbag.

/you're cliffy b, thats what you wanted and thats what you'll aways be


I don't know, he makes a good point. Why should people making five figures be allowed to actualize their investments when it results in less money being hoarded by people making six or seven figures?
 
2013-06-20 02:59:59 AM

FlashHarry: the always-on camera is still spooky though.


It might be... if you couldn't turn it off. Interesting thing is, this has been addressed already.

MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?


I'm a little annoyed about it, but "mad" is too strong a word to describe how I feel about it. Really, I just hate changing disks. I find it annoying as hell. I don't really care what platform it is, I just hate having to insert a disk to prove I own it. For me, having to connect to the internet for the system to verify with microsoft's servers that I own the games installed on my system is not too much to ask. If it means I don't have to keep a stack of disks next to my console to play all my games, FANTASTIC!

Now, I'll have to buy my games digitally and download them instead of being able to buy the install disk from the store. For small games, downloading isn't an issue at all. For REALLY BIG games, the download times can be kind of annoying. I would have liked to have the option of buying the install disks at the store and then putting them away in the closet, saving me a lot of download time, and playing my game as often as I like without changing disks (how it would have been before the whiners got Microsoft to change their policy). Now, I'll just have to buy them all digitally and download them so I can avoid having to change disks to play them. 

So... mad? No... annoyed, a little.

omeganuepsilon: I'm not paranoid, but I don't want to have it staring at me, or to have to talk to it to make my xbox function.


You doesn't have to stare at you and you don't have to talk to it. See my reply to FlashHarry.
 
2013-06-20 03:13:21 AM

JohnnyC: FlashHarry: the always-on camera is still spooky though.

It might be... if you couldn't turn it off. Interesting thing is, this has been addressed already.



Nobody wants to "pause" the camera, they want to disconnect it and only use it when/if they feel like it. Lets us disconnect it, then we'll talk.
 
2013-06-20 03:26:51 AM

JohnnyC: I just hate changing disks


So buy your games digitally.

I buy all my PC games on Steam/GoG/GMG, and I'd buy all my console games that way if it wasn't almost always cheaper to buy them in a store for some insane reason.

Seriously Microsoft/Sony, get your act together with that shiat. There is no reason for a retail copy of a game (that requires making, packaging and shipping a physical object to a store) to always be at least ten bucks cheaper than a digital copy bought directly from an online store.
 
2013-06-20 03:29:43 AM
So to sum up...

New DRM bad! Change it back! Microsoft sucks!

*Microsoft* "Ok fine"

Now... OH MY GOD WHO THE HELL DO THEY THINK THEY ARE?

You people are worse than teenage girls...
/at least you can roophie a teenage girl and get somewhere.
//does not endorse roophies on young girls
 
2013-06-20 03:36:50 AM
I'll reserve judgment until the consoles are actually on sale, but with all the crap going on, I'll stick with indie games and steam sales.  Hell, Armikrog's even DRM-free.

img.fark.net
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-20 03:54:54 AM
It doesn't look to me like they're really changing anything.
 
2013-06-20 04:06:28 AM

Gunther: So buy your games digitally.


Yeah, I plan on it (and mentioned as much in my previous posts)... I'm just annoyed that I'll have to buy them digitally if I want to avoid disk swapping.

Gunther: if it wasn't almost always cheaper to buy them in a store for some insane reason


I can only assume that is because they're sold at a discount to stores who then mark them up to retail price initially and then drop the price later to move them off the shelves without taking a loss on the sale of the game. Digital copies are theoretically infinite. The online store can produce as many copies as needed on demand and isn't working off a pre-purchase/markup scenario where they are trying to recoup initial investment. Therefore they are less driven to drop the price on the game as a retail store is when they end up with a surplus. At least... that's my guess.
 
2013-06-20 04:12:17 AM

JohnnyC: I can only assume that is because they're sold at a discount to stores who then mark them up to retail price initially and then drop the price later to move them off the shelves without taking a loss on the sale of the game.


Probably, but why are PC games always cheaper online? I can't remember the last time I bought a PC game in a retail store, because I'm always able to find them at least 10 bucks cheaper online, and usually 20 bucks cheaper.
 
2013-06-20 04:27:07 AM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: ajgeek: That was slower than I anticipated. I thought they'd reverse a couple weeks ago.

Q:    Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games?
A:    We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We'll have more details to share later.

This particular FAQ is hilarious. "Designing" indeed.

Yes, and this occurs soon after they tell everyone to go fark themselves with their old 360 games, which will be obsolete.  What sort of used game market is there going to be for the "One" for the first several months????

\can't even find a Wii U used game
\\Wii U!


Wii U seriously? We're talking about video game consoles here.
 
2013-06-20 04:39:32 AM
What has changed? I'm seeing no 180 here at all. It was never "always on" and still requires the internet. The bit where it says you can still play if you lose your connection I assume means if you lose it for less than 24 hours as per before.

Kinnect is still the same. There is some clarification about what the cloud does. They release in some markets. Some TV guff is clarified. They just put everything in a bulleted list and everyone is happy again?

img69.imageshack.us
 
2013-06-20 04:47:30 AM
Thank the Maker that the BBC can report better on the XBox 180 than XBox themselves. Seriously, that list cleared nothing up at all.
 
2013-06-20 04:59:03 AM

Cytokine Storm: None of you understand this issue, this guy gets it.

More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games.
I have seen the number of unique gamer tags vs actual sales numbers and it ain't pretty.
At the end of the day many hardcore dislike what was attempted. You can't do well in that space with many of your core unhappy... Especially when users have a choice. The nature of capitalism encourages competition and Sony played into that.
Brace yourselves. More tacked on multiplayer and DLC are coming.
You're also about to see available microtransactions skyrocket. HATS FOR EVERYONE.
I want *developers* who worked their asses off to see money on every copy of their game that is sold instead of Gamestop. fark me, right?
*Sony* forced Microsoft's hand, not the internet whining.
You're going to see digital versions of your favorite games with added "features" and content to lure you to digital over disc based.
I find it funny how people are saying that I "lost" when I don't have a job or an allegiance now.
What I do have is 20 years of experience making games and seeing how the sausage is made.

-Cliffy B.


No, he really doesn't. Reselling books has not destroyed the publishing industry. Home taping never killed music, and people mostly download best-selling movies and cds.

If you can't make a profit on your product, you're spending too much, promoting too little, or your product sucks. People reselling your product is not their fault, it's yours.

This is my favorite game of the last few years:
vglounge.com

Look expensive? Budget in the millions? Motion capture? Hollywood actors? No way. But it's fun as hell.
 
2013-06-20 05:04:18 AM
You guys realise this is a tried and tested marketing strategy and everything, so far, is going according to plan right?

Figured I should point that out as I know a lot of you aren't all that bright and might think this is Microsoft doing something 'good' and 'responding to criticism'.

It isn't.  They've put some cheese on the shiat sandwich.
 
2013-06-20 05:16:26 AM
Cytokine Storm:

The ravings of the CliffyB.  Always good when you need a laugh eh?

Yeah so can we get an over/under on which group he's going to try and knife in the back first whilst spouting gibberish?

The man should never be allowed to touch anything other than a XB360 until the day he retires after he declared it the MechaJesus of gaming.  Because hey, Microsoft couldn't of been telling the truth when they said it'd be 10 years until the next console came out and it's not like technology improves right?

Having said that given the mans propensity for knifing gaming systems in the back (first he did PC, then he did 360) I wonder which of the two new consoles will be the first?  It's a given he's going to TRY and shaft PC, as he's under the impression we care about someone who's last actual WORKING game on that platform was Jazz Jackrabbit 2 or Unreal.
 
2013-06-20 05:23:11 AM
As to used game sales.

I don't see Toyota biatching about second hand car sales.  Any publisher who thinks they deserve a second bite of that apple... is not a developer I do business with.

So you get nothing.
 
2013-06-20 05:35:24 AM

Vaneshi: You guys realise this is a tried and tested marketing strategy and everything, so far, is going according to plan right?

Figured I should point that out as I know a lot of you aren't all that bright and might think this is Microsoft doing something 'good' and 'responding to criticism'.

It isn't.  They've put some cheese on the shiat sandwich.


Right, and Coke released New Coke to drive up Coke Classic sales.

They noticed their pre-order numbers were not what they wanted and backpedaled. Simple as that.
 
2013-06-20 06:41:28 AM

King Keepo: What has changed? I'm seeing no 180 here at all. It was never "always on" and still requires the internet. The bit where it says you can still play if you lose your connection I assume means if you lose it for less than 24 hours as per before.

Kinnect is still the same. There is some clarification about what the cloud does. They release in some markets. Some TV guff is clarified. They just put everything in a bulleted list and everyone is happy again?

[img69.imageshack.us image 400x528]


The 24 hour phone home was a rather big deal because, in the end, Microsoft never justified why it was needed.
We've got successful devices that require internet connections but don't lock up when disconnected for extended periods.

Fun story:  When World of warcraft designers wanted to prevent players from burning through the content too quickly, they decided to come up with a rest system.  Play too long and they penalize your XP take.
Players hated it.
So the designers withdrew it but came up with a new system that, instead, gave you an XP bonus for the first few hours of play before tapering off.
Players loved it.

Moral of the story: Players are idiots that can be suckered by a good sales pitch.
Microsoft will probably rethink this, wheel it out as a "Premier customer service", and people will be stumbling over themselves for digital licenses.

/Release digital games a week early, have sales, free DLC, automatic downloads, demos on all titles, etc...  It wouldn't be hard.
/The ten bucks you get back from gamestop isn't as tempting as getting more game in your game machine.
 
2013-06-20 06:58:51 AM
upload.wikimedia.org

FREE on GOG.COM as part of their DRM FREE SUMMER SALE.

This is the last day for it however.

/Support DRM free gaming!
 
2013-06-20 07:09:53 AM

space1999: TheOmni: It's not no DRM. It's just back to the shiatty DRM we have had before instead of a new and differently shiatty DRM.

What DRM?  You buy a game disc, you can play the game from the disc.  Any Xbox with the disc in it can play the game.  That's not DRM.  Game consoles have operated that way for 35 years.


You are describing a DRM system. And yes, it is an old DRM system, but that doesn't stop it being a DRM system.
 
2013-06-20 07:25:19 AM

CrowdSceneExtra: MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?

I'm annoyed at this change.  I couldn't care less about used games because I don't sell my games and it's been years since I bought one.  What I was looking forward to most was disc-less gaming.  Just install the game and then you can switch between TV, apps, or any game seamlessly.  Now you'll need to swap discs to switch between games.  No more playing one game, getting an invite to another game and switching without digging around on your shelves to find the new disc.

I can still get a similar experience buying the full games off of XBL, but my bandwidth caps suck so I'll be paying a lot of overage fees if I want to enjoy disc-less gaming and if I delete something from the HDD I'll need to re-download it rather than reinstalling it from a disc.  It's stupid that the same data needs to be treated differently just because one set of data was downloaded and the other set was burned to a CD and shipped.  It's not a popular opinion, but I would rather that MS did away with used games as a means of disabling the 24 hour check-in rather than leaving used games intact and requiring a disc check before playing.


If this is really is changing like you say, then it has nothing to do with the public/developers pressuring Microsoft into reversing their policies.   Microsoft can still implement this feature if they want.   Absolutely nothing is stopping them but their own self-imposed policies.   They could allow the best of both worlds...
 
2013-06-20 07:34:18 AM

Vaneshi: As to used game sales.

I don't see Toyota biatching about second hand car sales.  Any publisher who thinks they deserve a second bite of that apple... is not a developer I do business with.

So you get nothing.


Doesn't Toyota get money from used car sales when people sell/trade their car back into a dealership?
 
2013-06-20 07:34:20 AM

hardinparamedic: FlashHarry: behold the power of social media.

the always-on camera is still spooky though.

Steve Balmer is watching you masturbate.


You want it the other way around?
 
2013-06-20 07:36:32 AM

LoR75: So pissed they got rid of the shared games library and the ability to share my games with 10 "family" members.


As others mentioned, publishers revolted when Sony a while let you share your downloads with 5 consoles.
http://www.destructoid.com/playstation-game-downloads-to-be-limited- to -two-consoles-215189.phtml

Its possible publishers weren't happy with the sharing part but were willing to go along with it if it meant the removal of used games.
 
2013-06-20 07:39:58 AM

way south: The 24 hour phone home was a rather big deal because, in the end, Microsoft never justified why it was needed.
We've got successful devices that require internet connections but don't lock up when disconnected for extended periods.


They did "justify" it.  The justification was just stupid.

Because they allowed you to "loan" the digital copy of your games out, they needed to check periodically to make sure the game was still loaned out or if it was returned.  The digital distribution and sharing in the manner they suggested only works when they verify the current location of the digital license.  That is something they can't do while the system is offline.

For example, say you have four friends and you buy a copy of a game.  If this was an XBO game under the old system you could "loan" a digital copy of the game to your friends.  They would then download that game from the cloud.  The digital license for that game would be transferred to your friend for as long as they feel like playing the game or until you revoked that loan.  In this way you don't have to go over to your friends house and loan them a copy of the game, they can play it whenever you are not playing it.

This works best for friends who do not live near each other.  Say you lived in Miami and your friend was in Seattle.  Normally you couldn't "loan" your game to that friend (not easily at least), but with the old XBO digital distribution cloud you could.

Alternately if you and that friend were in the same "Family" group, both you and your friend could play your copy of the game at the same time, even if they were in Seattle and you were in Miami.  The "family sharing" feature allowed for relaxed sharing rules between a small group of people.  Only one member of your "Family" needed to purchase a game for everyone in the Family to play.  Up to 10 people could be listed as Family.  This was different from the loaning system in that the digital license is shared vs. being loaned out to another person.

That system is great in theory, however in order to prevent abuse you would constantly need to know where and when the licenses were being used.  Otherwise one person could buy a game and share it with an infinite amount of offline friends forever while retaining an online copy for themselves.  The problem with that is you would never own your game just the digital license which you can lend out to friends or give away ONCE and only once.  The one time give away restriction was once again because of the ease of distributing a cloud shared copy across country.   It could particularly be abused on single player offline games.

Using the Playstation only game "Last of Us" as an example. That game only has 15~20 hours of game play (I believe a few people beat it in ~10 hours).  One person could purchase the game, beat it the day of purchase and then "give" it to a friend day 2.  That friend could play the game, beat it and "give" it to another friend day 3.  That second friend could then "Give" the game to another person and it keeps going from there.  While this can be done with a physical copy of the game, the logistics of the entire event would make it much more complicated than cloud shared software, which again, can go from Seattle to Miami and back in less than a second.  Also with the digital copy, if there wasn't some sort of check in system, even though the game was "given away" you could keep a copy and play it yourself just by keeping the XBO offline.

Even with the used game market, most people aren't going to sell a game back to GameStop the same day that they purchased it.

This is a bit different from loaning because the game doesn't have to return back to the original owner before being distributed to the next person, but honestly a loaning system could be abused as much as a giving system except for the 30 day requirement that they placed on game loaning

So yes, it makes sense that their old system required check ins to avoid abuse, but I think they took it a step too far.  Basically I can see those being the rules for the digital copies of the games, but why make that the rule for the physical copies as well?

That's the part that made no sense to me.  While a digital copy can be easily abused without DRM (i.e. Steam and other digital distributions), the same can't be said of the physical medium.  My guess is that because each physical disc included a bundled digital license, it made it impossible to separate the two systems without completely disabling the sharing feature.

The simple solution to that would, in my opinion, be to not automatically grant a digital license with the physical copy of the disc.  Make so that physical copies are mostly collectors editions with a few copies for people with little to no internet and have the digital copies be a complete separate entity.  That way collectors can still collect the games and people who have bad internet connections could also play the games.
 
2013-06-20 07:50:09 AM
I'm just going to use my PC to game. Sure, I will miss out on some console exclusive 3rd person action/adventure games which are essentially just linear 12 hour movies with little re-playability and no challenge.
 
2013-06-20 07:52:10 AM

change1211: Vaneshi: As to used game sales.

I don't see Toyota biatching about second hand car sales.  Any publisher who thinks they deserve a second bite of that apple... is not a developer I do business with.

So you get nothing.

Doesn't Toyota get money from used car sales when people sell/trade their car back into a dealership?


Umm, no. They probably lose money when the dealership does any recall repairs the previous owner hadn't bothered with.
 
2013-06-20 08:01:45 AM

MrSteve007: The dude has a point. Why would you buy a digital copy on the next generation console, since you can't swap or sell the game? If it were up to the tech whiners, we'll be stuck with disk swapping and disk based DRM & keys for the next couple decades.

I wish they would have gone with a less backward approach, and offer "offline" versions of physical games for people to play while away from the internet (military, cabins, etc). At least in my situation, and most folks these days, broadband isn't that hard to find. shiat, I have 100Mbps fiber at work, 35 Mbps DSL or cable at home, Clearwire's WiMax gives me 25 Mbps even out on my boat(crappy service and horrible ping times), and even my cell phone has a ping of 82 and download speeds between 9 and 18 Mbps - and I live out in the middle of farm fields.(Very hard to believe, and certianly not normal) Even if you're way out in the middle of nowhere, you can get decent internet via satellite - like my parents do out in the mountains.(Satellite Internet is notoriously bad for online gaming, don't even try unless you like getting shot in the face)

If you say you can't get any internet above dial-up, and you live in the lower 48 states, you're not even trying - or a poor ass sucker who can't afford a $500 console in the first place.

 
2013-06-20 08:05:42 AM

MindStalker: change1211: Vaneshi: As to used game sales.

I don't see Toyota biatching about second hand car sales.  Any publisher who thinks they deserve a second bite of that apple... is not a developer I do business with.

So you get nothing.

Doesn't Toyota get money from used car sales when people sell/trade their car back into a dealership?

Umm, no. They probably lose money when the dealership does any recall repairs the previous owner hadn't bothered with.


Somewhat this.

Dealerships are independent businesses that have a relationship with Toyota (the manufacturer) so No. Toyota proper doesn't get squat.

and even if they did make some money when someone brought a car back to the dealership, that option doesn't prevent John Q. Public from selling his car on his own to anyone he wishes at any time he wants. Toyota doesn't get a cut of that money.

Toyota also doesn't cut out every other independent used lot owner by partnering up with a single used dealer and somehow disabling your vehicle from being sold else where. For all scenarios, Toyota proper stops giving a damn once the car is loaded on to the truck/train to the dealer since the Dealer pays Toyota upfront for the car and then its up to the dealership to recoup their costs/make a profit.
 
2013-06-20 08:36:00 AM

Maul555: Satellite Internet is notoriously bad for online gaming, don't even try unless you like getting shot in the face)


Yep, plus it is capped and they throttle the speed if you reach the limit.  Looking at Dish, it is 10mbps with a 10GB cap for $50, and for $70 you get the same speed but a 15GB limit (low tier is $40 for 5mbps and a 5GB limit).

Aslo, forget about trying to use it during bad weather.
 
2013-06-20 08:41:14 AM

Burr: Maul555: Satellite Internet is notoriously bad for online gaming, don't even try unless you like getting shot in the face)

Yep, plus it is capped and they throttle the speed if you reach the limit.  Looking at Dish, it is 10mbps with a 10GB cap for $50, and for $70 you get the same speed but a 15GB limit (low tier is $40 for 5mbps and a 5GB limit).

Aslo, forget about trying to use it during bad weather.


Additionally, I am currently using a 3G mobile broadband connection for my current internet (the two year contract is almost up so I am shopping around for something new).  It has a 5GB limit and about 6mbps according to speed test.  I am just right on the edge of the tower, my mifi has to be on the east side of the house in a window to work, and even then some days it has "fits" but at the time it was better then dial up and satellite.

If I were to walk out my door with the mifi and go ten feet west of my house, I lose service completely.
 
2013-06-20 08:51:27 AM
Too late MS.  Friends and family are switching to PS4 so that is where my money is going.  XB1 has some nice exclusives, but so does PS4.
Saw someone say "a day late and a dollar short" I would say, "A day late and $100 short."

/I will be sad to miss TitanFall until it makes it to the PS4.
 
2013-06-20 08:53:37 AM

BAMFinator: Too late MS.  Friends and family are switching to PS4 so that is where my money is going.  XB1 has some nice exclusives, but so does PS4.
Saw someone say "a day late and a dollar short" I would say, "A day late and $100 short."

/I will be sad to miss TitanFall until it makes it to the PS4.


IIRC, it's coming to PC as well, so all hope is not lost.
 
2013-06-20 08:56:58 AM
I am a little disappointed by this news.  I was looking forward to being able to share my games with 'circle of 10' so to say.  I have a huge amount of xbox 360 games that I don't regularly play.  Hell I'm lucky if i have the time to game 10 hours a week anymore.  It would be nice for my friends who don't live close by, to be able to get use out of that product that is just sitting on my shelf.  The online requirements and the DRM / used game policies, didn't really affect me negatively in the first place.

However that's pretty much the only direct draw back.  I was hoping that these policies would appease the publishers and developers enough to be able to cut out some of the DLC and ridiculous prices of video games, which is pure skepticism of course,  but now we won't be able to see how it pans out so I guess we're back to the same ol, same ol.  I really liked their ideas and thought digital sales is where the industry needs to go, but apparently consumers aren't quite ready for it.  They do still have the infrastructure all coded and designed tho, so I guess they could implement it at some point in the future.

It would be cool if they had some sort of opt in policy where you could agree to the online check ins and DRM to get access to the friends and family perks, but that would probably make things extremely complicated by splitting the user base.
 
2013-06-20 08:58:29 AM

Maul555: CrowdSceneExtra: MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?

I'm annoyed at this change.  I couldn't care less about used games because I don't sell my games and it's been years since I bought one.  What I was looking forward to most was disc-less gaming.  Just install the game and then you can switch between TV, apps, or any game seamlessly.  Now you'll need to swap discs to switch between games.  No more playing one game, getting an invite to another game and switching without digging around on your shelves to find the new disc.

I can still get a similar experience buying the full games off of XBL, but my bandwidth caps suck so I'll be paying a lot of overage fees if I want to enjoy disc-less gaming and if I delete something from the HDD I'll need to re-download it rather than reinstalling it from a disc.  It's stupid that the same data needs to be treated differently just because one set of data was downloaded and the other set was burned to a CD and shipped.  It's not a popular opinion, but I would rather that MS did away with used games as a means of disabling the 24 hour check-in rather than leaving used games intact and requiring a disc check before playing.

If this is really is changing like you say, then it has nothing to do with the public/developers pressuring Microsoft into reversing their policies.   Microsoft can still implement this feature if they want.   Absolutely nothing is stopping them but their own self-imposed policies.   They could allow the best of both worlds...


My thoughts exactly. What's keeping MS from doing a full game install from disc? Personaly I rather have the option of playing from disc or doing a full install. I have built up a pretty huge library of games, and I rather not fill the HDD up. Just because they allow used games doesn't mean that you can't do a full install. They could still implement 'sharing' as long as you do a check every day. If you're not sharing, then you don't need to do a system check. And sharing or gifting seems be nothing other than used game sales that NOONE gets any money from. Not you, not Gamestop. The publishers still arn't getting paid if you transfer a license to a friend. So if one person buys a game and then the next 9 friends down the line re-gift it, that 9/10th of the people not paying for a game.

And just because some people don't buy used, doesn't mean everyone doesn't.  I keep most of my games because I like them. I have games I haven't played in years, but might go back to one day. It's the 'meh' ones I sell to get some money back. I mostly buy new. But I buy used for two reasons. 1. the game wasn't that great but is worth a playthrough for 20 bucks. 2. It's a game I never got around to playing and is not sold new anymore (Okami for example) There are a lot of old good games that you can only find used.  Publishers can't maintain new copies of every game. So if you never got the chance to play Condemned, the only way you're gonna get it is used.

There is no reason MS can't give you the option. You want to install a disc and have to connect to live to be allowed to play it? Fine. I would also like to be able to pop a disc in and play it when my shiatty power grid or DSL service goes down.  You want to 'loan' a game to a friend? The he has to connect once a day to keep playing the game, until you connect to MS and revoke the loan. It's not that hard to do, and would make everyone happy, I think.
 
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