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(Xbox 360)   XBox 180   (news.xbox.com) divider line 369
    More: Obvious, xbox, multiplayer games  
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7032 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Jun 2013 at 6:59 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



369 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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Archived thread
 
2013-06-19 05:14:13 PM  
notfncute.com

Now get rid of Kinect.
 
2013-06-19 05:14:18 PM  
behold the power of social media.

the always-on camera is still spooky though.
 
2013-06-19 05:15:15 PM  
img.fark.net

Fire that douchebag Don Mattrick, make the Kinect non-mandatory, and maybe, MAYBE we'll talk XB1. But probably not.
 
2013-06-19 05:16:21 PM  
Quality headline.
 
2013-06-19 05:19:09 PM  

FlashHarry: behold the power of social media.

the always-on camera is still spooky though.


Steve Balmer is watching you masturbate.
 
2013-06-19 05:19:37 PM  
Still 100 bucks more expensive and still needs the Kinect to play. Fark off Don.

I'll stick with PS3 and Steam. PS4 soon.
 
2013-06-19 05:20:33 PM  
Damn. So all those images bashing the console I've been hoarding and posting on nearly every Xbone thread here are useless.

And yes, still no word on the invasive camera.
 
2013-06-19 05:21:05 PM  

DanZero: Damn. So all those images bashing the console I've been hoarding and posting on nearly every Xbone thread here are useless.

And yes, still no word on the invasive camera.


The new hotness will be bashing MS for not sticking to their guns haha.
 
2013-06-19 05:21:44 PM  
I honestly think Microsoft is trying to run itself into the ground.  Given the sheer number if times that they've stepped on their dick over the last two years, it's the only explanation for why the Board of Directors hasn't given Ballmer his walking papers yet.

/Hopefully they'll come to their senses before he shifts his gaze towards Servers and Tools.
//Don't fark with my Visual Studio.
 
2013-06-19 05:22:02 PM  

eddievercetti: Still 100 bucks more expensive and still needs the Kinect to play. Fark off Don.

I'll stick with PS3 and Steam. PS4 soon.


Oh, don't tell him to fark off. Watching Don Mattick is like watching a bus wreck into a gas station and burn with those on board screaming, or a Tijuana Donkey Show. It's horrific, but you just can't help but stare in awe at it.
 
2013-06-19 05:22:52 PM  

Snaps: The new hotness will be bashing MS for not sticking to their guns haha.


Very good point. Hopefully there will be a new angle for those image-makers out there now.
 
2013-06-19 05:23:55 PM  

hardinparamedic: eddievercetti: Still 100 bucks more expensive and still needs the Kinect to play. Fark off Don.

I'll stick with PS3 and Steam. PS4 soon.

Oh, don't tell him to fark off. Watching Don Mattick is like watching a bus wreck into a gas station and burn with those on board screaming, or a Tijuana Donkey Show. It's horrific, but you just can't help but stare in awe at it.


There's just something off about him. He reminds me of Kenneth on 30 Rock.

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 05:26:45 PM  
Called it.
 
2013-06-19 05:27:49 PM  

http://www.fark.com/users/justtray">justtray    http://www.fark.com/totalfarksignup" target=_top>http://img.fark.net/images/2003/totalfark.gif" width=54 height=11>
First it's ironic that Sony is now taking the high ground on anti-DRM.

Secondly, Microsoft will cave to public opinion on this. They're stupid, but not stubbornly so.


11 Jun 2013 05:50 PM
 
2013-06-19 05:30:04 PM  

hardinparamedic: Steve Balmer is watching you masturbate.


img.fark.net

you know, it's kinky... but i like it!
 
2013-06-19 05:30:46 PM  
Holy crap someone teach me how to link to old comments.
 
2013-06-19 05:37:59 PM  
It's funny, I could live with all the DRM but the one thing that remains is the one thing I hate the most, mandatory Kinect.
 
2013-06-19 05:40:37 PM  

justtray: Holy crap someone teach me how to link to old comments.


Left click on the timestamp of the post, select "Copy Link Location", and use it as a hotlink. Quoe as necessary.

Anyway, this change was obvious because the always-on thing wasn't actually an always-on thing. It came out that you could play it offline weeks ago. The Kinect thing will not change because they built it into the machine itself and they will not be redesigning it to remove it.
 
2013-06-19 05:41:30 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: The Kinect thing will not change because they built it into the machine itself and they will not be redesigning it to remove it.


Little piece of electrical tape will solve a multitude of problems.
 
2013-06-19 05:42:52 PM  
What changed? You still need connect, still need internet (they have said it needs to check in daily, this doesn't dispute that), and it still looks like used games are going to only go through them and you will have to reliscense them? Looks like the same shiat we have been discussing.
 
2013-06-19 05:43:15 PM  

hardinparamedic: Adolf Oliver Nipples: The Kinect thing will not change because they built it into the machine itself and they will not be redesigning it to remove it.

Little piece of electrical tape will solve a multitude of problems.


ERROR: Kinect Sensor is obstructed. Please fix obstruction to continue playing game that has nothing to do with the Kinect Sensor.
 
2013-06-19 05:46:07 PM  

NickelP: What changed? You still need connect, still need internet (they have said it needs to check in daily, this doesn't dispute that), and it still looks like used games are going to only go through them and you will have to reliscense them? Looks like the same shiat we have been discussing.


That's because subby linked to old information. The new information is on a link at the top. I'll just post it all here anyway:

Last week at E3, the excitement, creativity and future of our industry was on display for a global audience.

For us, the future comes in the form of Xbox One, a system designed to be the best place to play games this year and for many years to come. As is our heritage with Xbox, we designed a system that could take full advantage of advances in technology in order to deliver a breakthrough in game play and entertainment. We imagined a new set of benefits such as easier roaming, family sharing, and new ways to try and buy games. We believe in the benefits of a connected, digital future.

Since unveiling our plans for Xbox One, my team and I have heard directly from many of you, read your comments and listened to your feedback. I would like to take the opportunity today to thank you for your assistance in helping us to reshape the future of Xbox One.

You told us how much you loved the flexibility you have today with games delivered on disc. The ability to lend, share, and resell these games at your discretion is of incredible importance to you. Also important to you is the freedom to play offline, for any length of time, anywhere in the world.

So, today I am announcing the following changes to Xbox One and how you can play, share, lend, and resell your games exactly as you do today on Xbox 360. Here is what that means:


An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games - After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.

Trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today - There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.
In addition to buying a disc from a retailer, you can also download games from Xbox Live on day of release. If you choose to download your games, you will be able to play them offline just like you do today. Xbox One games will be playable on any Xbox One console -- there will be no regional restrictions.

These changes will impact some of the scenarios we previously announced for Xbox One. The sharing of games will work as it does today, you will simply share the disc. Downloaded titles cannot be shared or resold. Also, similar to today, playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray.

We appreciate your passion, support and willingness to challenge the assumptions of digital licensing and connectivity. While we believe that the majority of people will play games online and access the cloud for both games and entertainment, we will give consumers the choice of both physical and digital content. We have listened and we have heard loud and clear from your feedback that you want the best of both worlds.

Thank you again for your candid feedback. Our team remains committed to listening, taking feedback and delivering a great product for you later this year.
 
2013-06-19 05:50:40 PM  

justtray: http://www.fark.com/users/justtray">justtray    http://www.fark.com/totalfarksignup" target=_top>http://img.fark.net/images/2003/totalfark.gif" width=54 height=11>
First it's ironic that Sony is now taking the high ground on anti-DRM.

Secondly, Microsoft will cave to public opinion on this. They're stupid, but not stubbornly so.


11 Jun 2013 05:50 PM


We're all proud of you.
 
2013-06-19 05:53:58 PM  

scottydoesntknow: NickelP: What changed? You still need connect, still need internet (they have said it needs to check in daily, this doesn't dispute that), and it still looks like used games are going to only go through them and you will have to reliscense them? Looks like the same shiat we have been discussing.

That's because subby linked to old information. The new information is on a link at the top. I'll just post it all here anyway:

Last week at E3, the excitement, creativity and future of our industry was on display for a global audience.

For us, the future comes in the form of Xbox One, a system designed to be the best place to play games this year and for many years to come. As is our heritage with Xbox, we designed a system that could take full advantage of advances in technology in order to deliver a breakthrough in game play and entertainment. We imagined a new set of benefits such as easier roaming, family sharing, and new ways to try and buy games. We believe in the benefits of a connected, digital future.

Since unveiling our plans for Xbox One, my team and I have heard directly from many of you, read your comments and listened to your feedback. I would like to take the opportunity today to thank you for your assistance in helping us to reshape the future of Xbox One.

You told us how much you loved the flexibility you have today with games delivered on disc. The ability to lend, share, and resell these games at your discretion is of incredible importance to you. Also important to you is the freedom to play offline, for any length of time, anywhere in the world.

So, today I am announcing the following changes to Xbox One and how you can play, share, lend, and resell your games exactly as you do today on Xbox 360. Here is what that means:


An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games - After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.

Trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today - There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.
In addition to buying a disc from a retailer, you can also download games from Xbox Live on day of release. If you choose to download your games, you will be able to play them offline just like you do today. Xbox One games will be playable on any Xbox One console -- there will be no regional restrictions.

These changes will impact some of the scenarios we previously announced for Xbox One. The sharing of games will work as it does today, you will simply share the disc. Downloaded titles cannot be shared or resold. Also, similar to today, playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray.

We appreciate your passion, support and willingness to challenge the assumptions of digital licensing and connectivity. While we believe that the majority of people will play games online and access the cloud for both games and entertainment, we will give consumers the choice of both physical and digital content. We have listened and we have heard loud and clear from your feedback that you want the best of both worlds.

Thank you again for your candid feedback. Our team remains committed to listening, taking feedback and delivering a great product for you later this year.


Ah thanks that is a bit different
 
2013-06-19 05:58:09 PM  
Sony bricks users consoles with upgraded HDDs, MS reverses on DRM.

img.fark.net

I need more popcorn.
 
2013-06-19 06:07:05 PM  
Q: Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games?
A:  We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We'll have more details to share later.


Now that's how you low-ball a FAQ.

/Q: Is there a chance the track could bend?
//A: Not on your life my Hindu friend!
/// Monorail!
 
2013-06-19 06:07:51 PM  
Happy to see customers still having a voice in the industry.
I look forward to 20 more greenlights of this exact subject.
 
2013-06-19 06:18:41 PM  
Still not getting one.
 
2013-06-19 06:21:10 PM  
Too little too late probably.
 
2013-06-19 06:22:18 PM  
still there is bills unblinking eye on you.
 
2013-06-19 06:27:40 PM  

Frank N Stein: justtray: http://www.fark.com/users/justtray">justtray    http://www.fark.com/totalfarksignup" target=_top>http://img.fark.net/images/2003/totalfark.gif" width=54 height=11>
First it's ironic that Sony is now taking the high ground on anti-DRM.

Secondly, Microsoft will cave to public opinion on this. They're stupid, but not stubbornly so.


11 Jun 2013 05:50 PM

We're all proud of you.


This is what butthurt in text form looks like.
 
2013-06-19 06:29:03 PM  

hardinparamedic: Adolf Oliver Nipples: The Kinect thing will not change because they built it into the machine itself and they will not be redesigning it to remove it.

Little piece of electrical tape will solve a multitude of problems.


Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
 
2013-06-19 06:30:33 PM  

PainInTheASP: Don't fark with my Visual Studio


They already did.

/you HAVE seen the new color scheme, yes?
 
2013-06-19 06:31:17 PM  

wxboy: Too little too late probably.


You're probably buying a PS4 because Sony respects their customers and would never release a product with oppressive DRM, shoddy hardware or back out on their promises for how their product will work(or remove functionality after you've already bought their product)
 
2013-06-19 06:35:26 PM  

Voiceofreason01: wxboy: Too little too late probably.

You're probably buying a PS4 because Sony respects their customers and would never release a product with oppressive DRM, shoddy hardware or back out on their promises for how their product will work(or remove functionality after you've already bought their product)


In the last thread I still think Sony has an edge at the dawn of the next generation, due mostly to price point of their basic box.  However, Sony has proven more than capable of squandering any advantage they have.
 
2013-06-19 06:40:09 PM  

Nefarious: Voiceofreason01: wxboy: Too little too late probably.

You're probably buying a PS4 because Sony respects their customers and would never release a product with oppressive DRM, shoddy hardware or back out on their promises for how their product will work(or remove functionality after you've already bought their product)

In the last thread I still think Sony has an edge at the dawn of the next generation, due mostly to price point of their basic box.  However, Sony has proven more than capable of squandering any advantage they have.


Right now I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason to buy either of them. Sony has a big advantage for the moment because of the price but I feel that they will find some way to screw that up and that ultimately all this controversy will mean nothing when the final sales totals come in. The real deciding factor in the long run will be who can bring the best games to market and that's still up in the air.
 
2013-06-19 06:41:56 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Nefarious: Voiceofreason01: wxboy: Too little too late probably.

You're probably buying a PS4 because Sony respects their customers and would never release a product with oppressive DRM, shoddy hardware or back out on their promises for how their product will work(or remove functionality after you've already bought their product)

In the last thread I still think Sony has an edge at the dawn of the next generation, due mostly to price point of their basic box.  However, Sony has proven more than capable of squandering any advantage they have.

Right now I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason to buy either of them. Sony has a big advantage for the moment because of the price but I feel that they will find some way to screw that up and that ultimately all this controversy will mean nothing when the final sales totals come in. The real deciding factor in the long run will be who can bring the best games to market and that's still up in the air.


To be honest, I actually canceled my pre-order to save money. I don't think I'll be getting either.
 
2013-06-19 06:43:09 PM  

Voiceofreason01: wxboy: Too little too late probably.

You're probably buying a PS4 because Sony respects their customers and would never release a product with oppressive DRM, shoddy hardware or back out on their promises for how their product will work(or remove functionality after you've already bought their product)


In the end it comes down to what you want. It always does. I want to play Forza 5, so it's the XBox for me. If I bought a Playstation I would have to deal with their particular peccadilloes. If I played on a PC I'd have their DRM/use restrictions. There's no way around it, one way or another we'll either have to get used to it or enjoy older games on older systems without these things.

/Thank God for the Atari 2600
//Solaris FTW
 
2013-06-19 06:43:43 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: PainInTheASP: Don't fark with my Visual Studio

They already did.

/you HAVE seen the new color scheme, yes?


It's not too bad.  The service pack has a "blue" color scheme option that allows you to go back to the blue scheme that 2010 had.  And there's a registry hack that will allow you to turn off the all-caps menu.

As long as they don't replace the farking menu with a "screen" of colored tiles that don't do shiat outside of look pretty, I'll be fine.
 
2013-06-19 06:44:29 PM  
Running and shooting things with slightly better graphics.
 
2013-06-19 06:44:57 PM  

WalkingCarpet: It's funny, I could live with all the DRM but the one thing that remains is the one thing I hate the most, mandatory Kinect.


Most popular gaming accessory of 2014:
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 06:46:47 PM  
I look forward to the Christmas trample/knifing stories when these things hit the shelves

/Got out of retail this year
//Will be spending every weekend in November and December not shopping
 
2013-06-19 06:56:19 PM  
I'm actually a little bummed that MS backed down. I understand why they did it - Internet hate machine was steamrolling them and all - but with the DRM checking came the ability loan out digital copies of my game library, meaning I could have swapped games with my XBL friends. Now, no DRM, back to shiatty single-use licensing for digital content.

However, I do understand why that trade off doesn't work for soldiers, people with dodgy Internet connections, and the global market, and I do think MS made the right move

FlashHarry: the always-on camera is still spooky though.


DanZero: And yes, still no word on the invasive camera.


snuffy: still there is bills unblinking eye on you.


Yeahhhhh, that ones been debunked.
 
2013-06-19 06:59:06 PM  
I like the headline, but it really should have linked to the actual news article.

They did seem to get rid of a couple of the worst things, but not all of them. For one, it seems that the Xbox will not work out of the box. It still has to connect to the internet and do some sort of registration and configuration there first. And they say there will be no regional restrictions for games, but it is not clear if there will be regional restrictions on that first time connect to the internet registration thing. Last I heard it would only work in 22 countries, so has that changed?
 
2013-06-19 07:00:08 PM  
That was slower than I anticipated. I thought they'd reverse a couple weeks ago.

Q:    Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games?
A:    We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We'll have more details to share later.


This particular FAQ is hilarious. "Designing" indeed.
 
2013-06-19 07:01:16 PM  
Heh.  Looks like someone doesn't want to lose the next round of the console wars before they even start.
 
2013-06-19 07:01:28 PM  

Elegy: Yeahhhhh, that ones been debunked.


I'm waiting to see if they were planning on implementing that visual DRM system for movies and video that Microsoft filed a patent application on a year or two back.
 
2013-06-19 07:02:28 PM  

ajgeek: That was slower than I anticipated. I thought they'd reverse a couple weeks ago.

Q:    Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games?
A:    We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We'll have more details to share later.

This particular FAQ is hilarious. "Designing" indeed.


Yes, and this occurs soon after they tell everyone to go fark themselves with their old 360 games, which will be obsolete.  What sort of used game market is there going to be for the "One" for the first several months????

\can't even find a Wii U used game
\\Wii U!
 
2013-06-19 07:02:48 PM  

Elegy: I'm actually a little bummed that MS backed down. I understand why they did it - Internet hate machine was steamrolling them and all - but with the DRM checking came the ability loan out digital copies of my game library, meaning I could have swapped games with my XBL friends. Now, no DRM, back to shiatty single-use licensing for digital content.


It's not no DRM. It's just back to the shiatty DRM we have had before instead of a new and differently shiatty DRM.
 
2013-06-19 07:03:05 PM  

Rev.K: Quality headline.


Stolen from Reddit.
 
2013-06-19 07:03:57 PM  
Absolutely disgusting.  If I go into your house and break something, I would go to jail, if I was poor.  You walked into Microsoft's consumer market and broke their business model.  You imbeciles caused billions of dollars of damage to a corporation.  How is that not a criminal offense?
 
2013-06-19 07:04:47 PM  

codergirl42: Rev.K: Quality headline.

Stolen from Reddit.


And/or Joystiq.
 
2013-06-19 07:05:34 PM  
Everyone hates the Kinect. They think it's stupid - me? I don't have a problem with it... (CUE CLARKSON!)... 
AND THIS IS WHY:

www.7outof10.co.uk

Play Forza 4/Horizon with it once. ONCE.

You will never touch the controller again. Wheel and pedal combos? OBSOLETE! The best ($30,000,000 in R&D) racing controller ever!

/I fully expect to see Stig helmets aplenty vs. Guy Fawkes masks.
 
2013-06-19 07:06:07 PM  
For selfish reasons, I could live with the always on issue if Microsoft would get rid of the requirement that you have to purchase a Gold Live account to watch streaming media. I already pay for Netflix, I'm not gonna pay to have to stream it to a device.
 
2013-06-19 07:06:52 PM  
Nice try Microsoft, but you still get the most f•cked up product roll out of the decade award. The very fact that you went in front of E3 and announced all those things (you back pedaled on all but one) proves that you are wildly out of touch with most of your fanboys.
 
2013-06-19 07:08:17 PM  

Jedekai: Everyone hates the Kinect. They think it's stupid - me? I don't have a problem with it... (CUE CLARKSON!)... 
AND THIS IS WHY:


image.superstreetonline.com

Yes, because playing a game with your arms outstretched in front of you for extended periods of times doesn't lend itself to fatigue or anything.
 
2013-06-19 07:10:19 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 07:11:06 PM  
RexTalionis:
Yes, because playing a game with your arms outstretched in front of you for extended periods of times doesn't lend itself to fatigue or anything.

the kinect would be sweet if someone could figure out what the hell it's good for but like the example you posted most of the uses for it are demonstrably worse than using a conventional controller.
 
2013-06-19 07:11:34 PM  
System Wars 3?
Who do you trust - who gets the money? Who's setting up to screw you later?
My decided opinion:

cdn.cnet.com.au
"Very Dangerous - you go first..."
 
2013-06-19 07:11:59 PM  
Wow, they walked this one back so fast Usain Bolt lost is world record.
 
2013-06-19 07:12:12 PM  
Sell a Kinect free bundle for $100 less we're in business.
 
2013-06-19 07:14:03 PM  

Voiceofreason01: RexTalionis:
Yes, because playing a game with your arms outstretched in front of you for extended periods of times doesn't lend itself to fatigue or anything.

the kinect would be sweet if someone could figure out what the hell it's good for but like the example you posted most of the uses for it are demonstrably worse than using a conventional controller.


Someone should build an XBox indie game where it's just a chess playing engine where you call out your chess moves by voice via the Kinect. Also, the chess game asks you about your day and stuff.

img.fark.net

Let's make this happen!
 
2013-06-19 07:15:48 PM  
RexTalionis:
Someone should build an XBox indie game where it's just a chess playing engine where you call out your chess moves by voice via the Kinect. Also, the chess game asks you about your day and stuff.

[img.fark.net image 600x243]

Let's make this happen!


actually that would be pretty cool.

/not cool enough to pay an extra $100 for but it's a start
 
2013-06-19 07:16:27 PM  

shifty lookin bleeder: hardinparamedic: Adolf Oliver Nipples: The Kinect thing will not change because they built it into the machine itself and they will not be redesigning it to remove it.

Little piece of electrical tape will solve a multitude of problems.

Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?


img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 07:17:03 PM  

Snaps: DanZero: Damn. So all those images bashing the console I've been hoarding and posting on nearly every Xbone thread here are useless.

And yes, still no word on the invasive camera.

The new hotness will be bashing MS for not sticking to their guns haha.


Judging from The Verge and Twitter, people that were already upset are still refusing to buy an XBone for fear of the obvious (it will eventually get implemented).

But now the people that were in love of the online sharing and diskless game play are also threatening to boycott.
 
2013-06-19 07:17:23 PM  

Voiceofreason01: the kinect would be sweet if someone could figure out what the hell it's good for but like the example you posted most of the uses for it are demonstrably worse than using a conventional controller.


Well, now that the new Kinect is sensitive enough to measure your heartbeat, listen to multiple people, map the 6 simultaneous users, see in the dark, and map the entirety of most living rooms, I have a feeling that game designers will be creating suspense & horror games games that will positively scare the living poop out of you.

Xbox: "please turn off the lights before playing this game"
Xbox: "Someone is behind you!"

Etc.
 
2013-06-19 07:17:51 PM  
Heh, I can't wait to see the fanboys who have been desperately justifying the DRM as a good thing in previous threads eat crow...

Elegy: Sonytearsofimpotentrage.jpg

Seriously? Freakin' SERIOUSLY?
 
2013-06-19 07:18:04 PM  

ajgeek: That was slower than I anticipated. I thought they'd reverse a couple weeks ago.

Q:    Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games?
A:    We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We'll have more details to share later.

This particular FAQ is hilarious. "Designing" indeed.


I said it in an earlier thread and I stand by it, the blocking of used/shared games appears to be built into not just the hardware but the very business model of teh XB1.  I'll believe this when I see it.

AkaDad: [img.fark.net image 463x345]


Dear Lord that interview was uncomfortable to watch.
 
2013-06-19 07:18:38 PM  

Jedekai: Play Forza 4/Horizon with it once. ONCE


I did, then I went back to the controller because it didn't work right.
 
2013-06-19 07:18:43 PM  

codergirl42: Rev.K: Quality headline.

Stolen from Reddit.


IMO, the headline is a very obvious riff on the 360 to begin with.
 
2013-06-19 07:19:10 PM  
For me, it's the Kinect. If I wanted it, I would have gotten it already. The Wii showed what motion controls simply for the sake of having them could do to gameplay. I want to play a game with the feature, I'll pick it up. Developers are going to shoehorn in motion control just to use it. There are going to be a lot of games that will have no other reason to use it, save that it's there, and we're going to see a lot of games just waste time and energy.

I get that they want to "transform" gameplay. I'm just not sure that I want to be a Guinea pig during their experimentation phase, and for damn sure not pay for the privilege...
 
2013-06-19 07:19:32 PM  
Unless XB1 is an upgraded xbox 360 I won't be buying one.  Which is weird, because xbox is all I have.

MS screwed up big on this one and already lost all the "gamers."  The only market they can compete with now is people who haven't been paying attention; i.e. moms buying their little kids a console.

Good night and good luck, Microsoft.
 
2013-06-19 07:19:50 PM  

TheOmni: Elegy: I'm actually a little bummed that MS backed down. I understand why they did it - Internet hate machine was steamrolling them and all - but with the DRM checking came the ability loan out digital copies of my game library, meaning I could have swapped games with my XBL friends. Now, no DRM, back to shiatty single-use licensing for digital content.

It's not no DRM. It's just back to the shiatty DRM we have had before instead of a new and differently shiatty DRM.


Being able to lend out 10 digital copies of games isn't a shiatty DRM - it would have been the most permissive DRM for digital content in the industry. The 24/1 hr checkins were needed to counterbalance people cheating the loan system.

But everyone screamed about 24hr checkins, and MS didn't get on top of the message that the checkins were counterbalanced by a very generous loan policy, and now we're back to the same shiatty model Steam and the 360 have, where I buy a digital game and its stuck on my device [sigh]
 
2013-06-19 07:20:57 PM  

RexTalionis: Jedekai: Everyone hates the Kinect. They think it's stupid - me? I don't have a problem with it... (CUE CLARKSON!)... 
AND THIS IS WHY:

[image.superstreetonline.com image 800x533]

Yes, because playing a game with your arms outstretched in front of you for extended periods of times doesn't lend itself to fatigue or anything.


Yeah it's not like you ever had to outstretch your arms for extended periods of times in real life.
 
2013-06-19 07:21:13 PM  

TheOmni: I like the headline, but it really should have linked to the actual news article.

They did seem to get rid of a couple of the worst things, but not all of them. For one, it seems that the Xbox will not work out of the box. It still has to connect to the internet and do some sort of registration and configuration there first. And they say there will be no regional restrictions for games, but it is not clear if there will be regional restrictions on that first time connect to the internet registration thing. Last I heard it would only work in 22 countries, so has that changed?




img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 07:22:37 PM  

codergirl42: Yeah it's not like you ever had to outstretch your arms for extended periods of times in real life.


Typically, I don't. They usually just hang at my side. I am not a Chinese vampire.

macegroupone.pbworks.com
 
2013-06-19 07:22:49 PM  

Jedekai: Everyone hates the Kinect. They think it's stupid - me? I don't have a problem with it... (CUE CLARKSON!)... 
AND THIS IS WHY:

[www.7outof10.co.uk image 850x478]

Play Forza 4/Horizon with it once. ONCE.

You will never touch the controller again. Wheel and pedal combos? OBSOLETE! The best ($30,000,000 in R&D) racing controller ever!

/I fully expect to see Stig helmets aplenty vs. Guy Fawkes masks.


Hi Voice of Sauron, I remember you from some other thread and just thought I'd chip in:  Playing make-belief steering wheel with your hands is no where as satisfying as actually gripping one like using a G27 or similar.  Vroom vroom, right?  You go ahead and look like a power ranger expression their deep opinions about world hunger, I'll be racing with something that's tangible and gives real feedback when your virtual car T-bones some xbone weenie.
 
2013-06-19 07:22:58 PM  

Voiceofreason01: wxboy: Too little too late probably.

You're probably buying a PS4 because Sony respects their customers and would never release a product with oppressive DRM, shoddy hardware or back out on their promises for how their product will work(or remove functionality after you've already bought their product)


Yeah this is why I'm not bothering with Sony ever again. It's PS3 all over, except this time I spent $80 or so on a rabble of decent games I won't be able to play on a new machine, instead of the classic PS2 games that enthralled me. And no free online and PS3 was a bunch of farking cover shooters and 3rd person cutscene games, or uncharted, which was both.
 
2013-06-19 07:23:40 PM  
Wait, where's all the shills who were saying how great and innovative being forced to be always online was? And how awesome and wonderful Microsoft was being by leading the way there?

Gone? You don't say?
 
2013-06-19 07:24:36 PM  

Snaps: Now get rid of Kinect.


It seems like the simplest way to get the price down to competitive PS4 level is to unbundle the Kinect One and make it a totally optional peripheral.

If Microsoft were doing things the simple way we wouldn't even be having this thread, though.
 
2013-06-19 07:24:39 PM  

Elegy: Sony bricks users consoles with upgraded HDDs, MS reverses on DRM.

[img.fark.net image 294x515]

I need more popcorn.


the tears from those who defended the DRM is even better tasting tbh

http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault -5 14411905?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_twitter&utm_source=gizmodo_tw itter&utm_medium=socialflow

also this asshole needs to eat crow

http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/used-games-twitter-compla in ts-and-sony-why-the-xbox-one-backlash-doesnt-mat

can't believe people defended this stuff, it's like the entitled argument - always on the wrong side of history
 
2013-06-19 07:24:45 PM  
See, I told you Microsoft didn't mean it.  They were just tired and under stress, they can change.  They have changed.  They still love me.
 
2013-06-19 07:24:51 PM  
Elegy:
But everyone screamed about 24hr checkins, and MS didn't get on top of the message that the checkins were counterbalanced by a very generous loan policy, and now we're back to the same shiatty model Steam and the 360 have, where I buy a digital game and its stuck on my device [sigh]
Ahem. On Steam it's tied to my account, not my device. I can literally log in anywhere and play my games.
 
2013-06-19 07:25:11 PM  

USA Prime Credit Peggy: Wait, where's all the shills who were saying how great and innovative being forced to be always online was? And how awesome and wonderful Microsoft was being by leading the way there?

Gone? You don't say?


They've switched gears to stem damage control surrounding the Eye of Sauron:  Living Room Edition it appears.
 
2013-06-19 07:25:20 PM  

USA Prime Credit Peggy: Wait, where's all the shills who were saying how great and innovative being forced to be always online was? And how awesome and wonderful Microsoft was being by leading the way there?

Gone? You don't say?


they've gone to the cloud...
 
2013-06-19 07:25:55 PM  

Warlockgs: Elegy:
But everyone screamed about 24hr checkins, and MS didn't get on top of the message that the checkins were counterbalanced by a very generous loan policy, and now we're back to the same shiatty model Steam and the 360 have, where I buy a digital game and its stuck on my device [sigh]
Ahem. On Steam it's tied to my account, not my device. I can literally log in anywhere and play my games.


And some reports are showing Steam put in some game sharing stuff into its last beta update, so we may be able to lend steam games to each other in the future.
 
2013-06-19 07:26:33 PM  

Warlockgs: Elegy:
But everyone screamed about 24hr checkins, and MS didn't get on top of the message that the checkins were counterbalanced by a very generous loan policy, and now we're back to the same shiatty model Steam and the 360 have, where I buy a digital game and its stuck on my device [sigh]
Ahem. On Steam it's tied to my account, not my device. I can literally log in anywhere and play my games.


don't tell him day 1 digital has nothing to do with 24hr check ins/drm/etc. either
 
2013-06-19 07:26:51 PM  

Jedekai: Play Forza 4/Horizon with it once. ONCE.


You only have to do it once for the achievement. I thusly did so exactly once.

Yay, you can steer. You just can't control your speed, the brakes, or the gear you're in, but you can steer. Sort of. Most of the time.
 
2013-06-19 07:27:20 PM  

Warlockgs: Elegy:
But everyone screamed about 24hr checkins, and MS didn't get on top of the message that the checkins were counterbalanced by a very generous loan policy, and now we're back to the same shiatty model Steam and the 360 have, where I buy a digital game and its stuck on my device [sigh]
Ahem. On Steam it's tied to my account, not my device. I can literally log in anywhere and play my games.


And Steam is rumored to start sharing games
 
2013-06-19 07:27:59 PM  
codergirl42:
Yeah it's not like you ever had to outstretch your arms for extended periods of times in real life.

I guess you missed the "wii-itis" thing. The body isn't built to sustain it.
 
2013-06-19 07:29:02 PM  
Ok,
So we're back down to Kinect vs No Kinect.

Seeing as I have enjoyed various Kinect experiences, (not quite games in the normal sense) I'm ok with the sensor coming as a pack in.

If MS want's to send me an email regarding my fapping habits, that's their problem.
 
2013-06-19 07:29:16 PM  

wxboy: Too little too late probably.


I don't think so. There initial launch won't be nearly as good as it would have been, but it'll even out over the next year or two, especially as prices drop.
 
2013-06-19 07:30:34 PM  

Warlockgs: Elegy:
But everyone screamed about 24hr checkins, and MS didn't get on top of the message that the checkins were counterbalanced by a very generous loan policy, and now we're back to the same shiatty model Steam and the 360 have, where I buy a digital game and its stuck on my device [sigh]
Ahem. On Steam it's tied to my account, not my device. I can literally log in anywhere and play my games.


Yeah, technically that's true for my 360 too - when I go to my SILs place I log in to my account and DL my games on her 360 to play.

It was poorly phrased, I was specifically talking about swapping and lending digital copies, sorry for the confusion.
 
2013-06-19 07:32:16 PM  

Snaps: DanZero: Damn. So all those images bashing the console I've been hoarding and posting on nearly every Xbone thread here are useless.

And yes, still no word on the invasive camera.

The new hotness will be bashing MS for not sticking to their guns haha.


You aren't joking. Apparently there were people out there who were actively excited by all the DRM and they are actively complaining that MS "caved".

Microsoft is now in the worst of all possible marketing outcomes. They've already pissed off half their user community, who may or may not come back, and now they've pissed off the  other half that had bought into the claims that these changes were good things.

And all Sony had to do was sit back and watch the implosion.
 
2013-06-19 07:35:17 PM  

Elegy: Warlockgs: Elegy:
But everyone screamed about 24hr checkins, and MS didn't get on top of the message that the checkins were counterbalanced by a very generous loan policy, and now we're back to the same shiatty model Steam and the 360 have, where I buy a digital game and its stuck on my device [sigh]
Ahem. On Steam it's tied to my account, not my device. I can literally log in anywhere and play my games.

Yeah, technically that's true for my 360 too - when I go to my SILs place I log in to my account and DL my games on her 360 to play.

It was poorly phrased, I was specifically talking about swapping and lending digital copies, sorry for the confusion.


Ah. Well, carry on then.
 
2013-06-19 07:35:25 PM  

Elegy: TheOmni: Elegy: I'm actually a little bummed that MS backed down. I understand why they did it - Internet hate machine was steamrolling them and all - but with the DRM checking came the ability loan out digital copies of my game library, meaning I could have swapped games with my XBL friends. Now, no DRM, back to shiatty single-use licensing for digital content.

It's not no DRM. It's just back to the shiatty DRM we have had before instead of a new and differently shiatty DRM.

Being able to lend out 10 digital copies of games isn't a shiatty DRM - it would have been the most permissive DRM for digital content in the industry. The 24/1 hr checkins were needed to counterbalance people cheating the loan system.

But everyone screamed about 24hr checkins, and MS didn't get on top of the message that the checkins were counterbalanced by a very generous loan policy, and now we're back to the same shiatty model Steam and the 360 have, where I buy a digital game and its stuck on my device [sigh]


Yeah, the loan and the check ins were somewhat counterbalancing each other, but a lot of people didn't care about the new loan policy, so for them there was no benefit, just a random requirement to check in once a day.
 
2013-06-19 07:36:19 PM  
Remove the Kinect and we'll talk. Until then fark off.
 
2013-06-19 07:36:47 PM  
Everyone would've been pleased if they had sold us on any positive aspect of the requirements and not let the blogs frame it as DRM/spying. But they didn't have any excuse, like EA with simcity, so they just looked like dumbasses.

God-is-a-Taco: codergirl42:
Yeah it's not like you ever had to outstretch your arms for extended periods of times in real life.

I guess you missed the "wii-itis" thing. The body isn't built to sustain it.


It's not like you're mimicking real movements or anything. The wiimote+nunchuk's the most comfortable controller I've got. And holding R2+forward for hours at a time isn't sustainable either, every PS3 game.
 
2013-06-19 07:38:01 PM  

Elegy: snuffy: still there is bills unblinking eye on you.

Yeahhhhh, that ones been debunked.


From the article:
You can use other inputs to control your games, TV and entertainment experiences

That's nice. So, tell me again, why I should pay $100 surcharge for hardware that I have no interest in nor intention of using, especially when it is entirely optional to the actual use experience.
 
2013-06-19 07:39:16 PM  

RexTalionis: Jedekai: Everyone hates the Kinect. They think it's stupid - me? I don't have a problem with it... (CUE CLARKSON!)... 
AND THIS IS WHY:

[image.superstreetonline.com image 800x533]

Yes, because playing a game with your arms outstretched in front of you for extended periods of times doesn't lend itself to fatigue or anything.


And, multiple controls with no tactile feedback and in fact no physical location?  Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor tried this and failed...
 
2013-06-19 07:39:29 PM  
"Xbox One hardware is not compatible with Xbox 360 games. We designed Xbox One to play an entirely new generation of games-games that are architected to take full advantage of state-of-the-art processors and the infinite power of the cloud. "

That's some mighty fine bullshiat you got there.
 
2013-06-19 07:40:26 PM  

Jedekai: Everyone hates the Kinect. They think it's stupid - me? I don't have a problem with it... (CUE CLARKSON!)...
AND THIS IS WHY:

[www.7outof10.co.uk image 850x478]

Play Forza 4/Horizon with it once. ONCE.

You will never touch the controller again. Wheel and pedal combos? OBSOLETE! The best ($30,000,000 in R&D) racing controller ever!

/I fully expect to see Stig helmets aplenty vs. Guy Fawkes masks.


If you want to sit there with your arms stretched out into thin air for hours on end, go for it. Just don't for one second think the majority of gamers will ever agree with you.  Fitness games where you're exercising in front of the TV are one thing, but holding onto a pretend steering wheel is pants on head retarded.
 
2013-06-19 07:40:37 PM  
Cliffy Bs twitter right now is like the those bums who say the end is nigh because the gays are getting married.
 
2013-06-19 07:41:02 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Snaps: DanZero: Damn. So all those images bashing the console I've been hoarding and posting on nearly every Xbone thread here are useless.

And yes, still no word on the invasive camera.

The new hotness will be bashing MS for not sticking to their guns haha.

You aren't joking. Apparently there were people out there who were actively excited by all the DRM and they are actively complaining that MS "caved".

Microsoft is now in the worst of all possible marketing outcomes. They've already pissed off half their user community, who may or may not come back, and now they've pissed off the  other half that had bought into the claims that these changes were good things.

And all Sony had to do was sit back and watch the implosion.


Not really.

The specialist press went ape over these things. Your average person isn't going to give a shiat until the marketing machine picks up around September.

With this recant behind them, it's going to come down to what's going deliver a unique experience.
The question comes down to is a less powerful system with multiple HIDs be more fun vs a  more powerful platform.

For all the BS, I know that by the end of the lifespan, I'll end up having both.
As much as I piss and moan, it always ends the same way.
 
2013-06-19 07:41:20 PM  

justtray: Frank N Stein: justtray: http://www.fark.com/users/justtray">justtray    http://www.fark.com/totalfarksignup" target=_top>http://img.fark.net/images/2003/totalfark.gif" width=54 height=11>
First it's ironic that Sony is now taking the high ground on anti-DRM.

Secondly, Microsoft will cave to public opinion on this. They're stupid, but not stubbornly so.


11 Jun 2013 05:50 PM

We're all proud of you.

This is what butthurt in text form looks like.


What exactly would I be butthurt about?
 
2013-06-19 07:41:52 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Elegy: snuffy: still there is bills unblinking eye on you.

Yeahhhhh, that ones been debunked.

From the article:
You can use other inputs to control your games, TV and entertainment experiences

That's nice. So, tell me again, why I should pay $100 surcharge for hardware that I have no interest in nor intention of using, especially when it is entirely optional to the actual use experience.


Um, you probably shouldn't pay for it if you don't want it?

I was responding to the debunked and false "Kinect is watching you scratch your nuts and eat Cheetos" privacy concerns, not tying to convince anyone to buy one.

Make your own damn decisions about what you're going to buy, don't ask me to do it for you.
 
2013-06-19 07:44:01 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Elegy: snuffy: still there is bills unblinking eye on you.

Yeahhhhh, that ones been debunked.

From the article:
You can use other inputs to control your games, TV and entertainment experiences

That's nice. So, tell me again, why I should pay $100 surcharge for hardware that I have no interest in nor intention of using, especially when it is entirely optional to the actual use experience.


A $100 cheaper xbox without kinect would be a pretty temping product. It would definitely get me to consider not buying a PS4.
 
2013-06-19 07:45:46 PM  
Ha ha, victory to the consumers.

So much for the "it's just a vocal minority" or "just angry internet nerds."

But in the end, the damage is done. The backlash has been immense and almost universal. It hasn't even been a month since the console was revealed and they've completely backpedaled from their biggest feature. At least before, they were selling it as an always connected device, and could try to pretend there were benefits to consumers from that. Now, all they have left is a underpowered and more expensive machine, that's still tied to the kinect system and all the privacy concerns surrounding it.
 
2013-06-19 07:45:56 PM  

Mr. Fuzzypaws: codergirl42: Rev.K: Quality headline.

Stolen from Reddit.

And/or Joystiq.


And/or an ArsTechnica graphic.
 
2013-06-19 07:46:09 PM  

Elegy: Being able to lend out 10 digital copies of games isn't a shiatty DRM - it would have been the most permissive DRM for digital content in the industry. The 24/1 hr checkins were needed to counterbalance people cheating the loan system.

But everyone screamed about 24hr checkins, and MS didn't get on top of the message that the checkins were counterbalanced by a very generous loan policy, and now we're back to the same shiatty model Steam and the 360 have, where I buy a digital game and its stuck on my device [sigh]


Not everyone is interested in loaning games, in the first place, and there are plenty of users out there who do not always have guaranteed connections to the Internet. I know that my military friends were, in particular, considering this a deal breaker because it meant that they couldn't use the consoles on many of their deployments.

Worse, MS just brushed those concerns aside by claiming that we were now in a networked world and that we should just deal with it. They weren't expecting people to deal with it by switching to Sony, I guess.
 
2013-06-19 07:46:55 PM  
I submitted this with a way, way more lame headline.

Nice one, Subs.
 
2013-06-19 07:47:10 PM  

Elegy: Some 'Splainin' To Do: Elegy: snuffy: still there is bills unblinking eye on you.

Yeahhhhh, that ones been debunked.

From the article:
You can use other inputs to control your games, TV and entertainment experiences

That's nice. So, tell me again, why I should pay $100 surcharge for hardware that I have no interest in nor intention of using, especially when it is entirely optional to the actual use experience.

Um, you probably shouldn't pay for it if you don't want it?

I was responding to the debunked and false "Kinect is watching you scratch your nuts and eat Cheetos" privacy concerns, not tying to convince anyone to buy one.

Make your own damn decisions about what you're going to buy, don't ask me to do it for you.


I wasn't. Calm down.
 
2013-06-19 07:50:30 PM  

Someothermonkey: But in the end, the damage is done. The backlash has been immense and almost universal. It hasn't even been a month since the console was revealed and they've completely backpedaled from their biggest feature. At least before, they were selling it as an always connected device, and could try to pretend there were benefits to consumers from that. Now, all they have left is a underpowered and more expensive machine, that's still tied to the kinect system and all the privacy concerns surrounding it.


I work at Microsoft and I can tell you that everything you have said here is false.  Number one, the Xbox is 300 to 500 times more powerful than the PlayStation 4, depending on how fast the clouds across the Oklahoma Plain are moving.  (During the Moore tornado, one of our playtesters was literally sucked into the game, never to be found again.)  Number two, the Kinect is not spying on you.  The person on the other end of the connection is the one spying on you.  And number three, the PlayStation 4 will not have Ryse.  In the past, video games sound and graphics with interactive components to create video games.  Ryse will remove the interactivity and usher in an incredible era of noninteractive interactive entertainment.  Wow.  I can't wait to watch Ryse.
 
2013-06-19 07:51:38 PM  

Elegy: Sony bricks users consoles with upgraded HDDs, MS reverses on DRM.

[img.fark.net image 294x515]

I need more popcorn.


hahaha. Nice try. What happened to digital only was the future and consumers were going to buy the DRM-laden console anyway because they have no impulse control?
 
2013-06-19 07:52:45 PM  

Carth: Some 'Splainin' To Do: Elegy: snuffy: still there is bills unblinking eye on you.

Yeahhhhh, that ones been debunked.

From the article:
You can use other inputs to control your games, TV and entertainment experiences

That's nice. So, tell me again, why I should pay $100 surcharge for hardware that I have no interest in nor intention of using, especially when it is entirely optional to the actual use experience.

A $100 cheaper xbox without kinect would be a pretty temping product. It would definitely get me to consider not buying a PS4.


It would go a long way towards putting them back into play. I'm not a Sony fanboi. In fact, before all this started, I was heavily leaning towards the Xbox. I'm actually a bit surprised that I'm strongly leaning towards the PS4, now, but not only haven't we gotten any of this shiat from them, they're also the only ones promising backwards game compatibility and have just generally been paying attention to everything that people have been telling them they want.

Sony has been responsive to gamers and Microsoft has, at best, been reactive (when they haven't been actively dismissive). I'm really not sure I understand how MS could let themselves go from crowd favorite to a pariah in such a short span.
 
2013-06-19 07:53:20 PM  

RexTalionis: Someone should build an XBox indie game where it's just a chess playing engine where you call out your chess moves by voice via the Kinect. Also, the chess game asks you about your day and stuff.

img.fark.net

Let's make this happen!


But then the XBone calls out one move while making another then murders all your friends while they sleep.
 
2013-06-19 07:53:58 PM  

eddievercetti: Cliffy Bs twitter right now is like the those bums who say the end is nigh because the gays are getting married.


That guy is a douchebag.  I actively avoid projects he's apart of since I don't want the frat-ness to touch entertainment center.
 
2013-06-19 07:54:54 PM  
AkaDad: img.fark.net


To be fair, it would be almost impossible to remove the DRM if they had stuck to their 10 person family share business model.  What they did instead was remove the 10 person sharing of games in order to revert back to the old style of game sharing.

The 10 person model, while ambitious was shooting themselves in the foot.  Sure it SOUNDS nice to have 1 person buy a game and 10 different people play it, but when that option requires that you no longer OWN the game, it's a problem.
 
2013-06-19 07:55:40 PM  
Still leaning towards the PS4. I don't like the kinect and I'll save a hundred bucks.
 
2013-06-19 07:55:54 PM  

Testiclaw: I submitted this with a way, way more lame headline.


I submitted this with the exact same headline an hour later, then noticed this one was green. Stop stealing my ideas and time-travelling, subby.
 
2013-06-19 07:56:21 PM  

Elegy: TheOmni: Elegy: I'm actually a little bummed that MS backed down. I understand why they did it - Internet hate machine was steamrolling them and all - but with the DRM checking came the ability loan out digital copies of my game library, meaning I could have swapped games with my XBL friends. Now, no DRM, back to shiatty single-use licensing for digital content.

It's not no DRM. It's just back to the shiatty DRM we have had before instead of a new and differently shiatty DRM.

Being able to lend out 10 digital copies of games isn't a shiatty DRM - it would have been the most permissive DRM for digital content in the industry. The 24/1 hr checkins were needed to counterbalance people cheating the loan system.

But everyone screamed about 24hr checkins, and MS didn't get on top of the message that the checkins were counterbalanced by a very generous loan policy, and now we're back to the same shiatty model Steam and the 360 have, where I buy a digital game and its stuck on my device [sigh]


Wait, couldn't I loan out my disk of Halo 3 to infinity friends right now.  How is accepting a DRM scheme limiting me to sharing 10 times more permissive?
 
2013-06-19 07:56:44 PM  

Mike_LowELL: I work at Microsoft and I can tell you that everything you have said here is false.  Number one, the Xbox is 300 to 500 times more powerful than the PlayStation 4, depending on how fast the clouds across the Oklahoma Plain are moving.  (During the Moore tornado, one of our playtesters was literally sucked into the game, never to be found again.)  Number two, the Kinect is not spying on you.  The person on the other end of the connection is the one spying on you.  And number three, the PlayStation 4 will not have Ryse.  In the past, video games sound and graphics with interactive components to create video games.  Ryse will remove the interactivity and usher in an incredible era of noninteractive interactive entertainment.  Wow.  I can't wait to watch Ryse.


When I initially watched the Ryse demo, I was kind of excited. I'm a big fan of the Roman era and it was cool to see it being brought to life. Ten minutes into the demo my primary thought was, "What's up with all the farking QTEs? Is this the year 2000, still?"
 
2013-06-19 07:56:54 PM  

Someothermonkey: Elegy: Sony bricks users consoles with upgraded HDDs, MS reverses on DRM.

[img.fark.net image 294x515]

I need more popcorn.

hahaha. Nice try. What happened to digital only was the future and consumers were going to buy the DRM-laden console anyway because they have no impulse control?


I don't know, what happened to it?
 
2013-06-19 07:56:57 PM  

Jedekai: Everyone hates the Kinect. They think it's stupid - me? I don't have a problem with it... (CUE CLARKSON!)... 
AND THIS IS WHY:

[www.7outof10.co.uk image 850x478]

Play Forza 4/Horizon with it once. ONCE.

You will never touch the controller again. Wheel and pedal combos? OBSOLETE! The best ($30,000,000 in R&D) racing controller ever!

/I fully expect to see Stig helmets aplenty vs. Guy Fawkes masks.


You have to be trolling.  No real Forza player uses that option at all.  You can't drive properly like that, you can't drift at all.

0% of the Forza players on my friend's list have that achievement.  Even the ones with Kinect refuse to earn that cheevo, because it is so farking stupid.

Most people actually have the Fanatec wheels and use those.  Of course, those same Fanatec wheels are going to be obsolete when the XBox One arrives, and after spending as much as $500 on those wheels, they aren't looking to upgrade to the XBox One and having to buy a completely new wheel.

One day soon, maybe Polyphony Digital will get their act together and actually make a proper game, but until then, Forza is the best racing sim out there, excluding iRacing.
 
2013-06-19 07:57:06 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Carth: Some 'Splainin' To Do: Elegy: snuffy: still there is bills unblinking eye on you.

Yeahhhhh, that ones been debunked.

From the article:
You can use other inputs to control your games, TV and entertainment experiences

That's nice. So, tell me again, why I should pay $100 surcharge for hardware that I have no interest in nor intention of using, especially when it is entirely optional to the actual use experience.

A $100 cheaper xbox without kinect would be a pretty temping product. It would definitely get me to consider not buying a PS4.

It would go a long way towards putting them back into play. I'm not a Sony fanboi. In fact, before all this started, I was heavily leaning towards the Xbox. I'm actually a bit surprised that I'm strongly leaning towards the PS4, now, but not only haven't we gotten any of this shiat from them, they're also the only ones promising backwards game compatibility and have just generally been paying attention to everything that people have been telling them they want.

Sony has been responsive to gamers and Microsoft has, at best, been reactive (when they haven't been actively dismissive). I'm really not sure I understand how MS could let themselves go from crowd favorite to a pariah in such a short span.


Not to be terribly sarcastic, but, the 2nd Gen Arrogance is the norm.

I'd be more surprised if MS hadn't been tone deaf and dismissive going into this race.
 
2013-06-19 07:57:53 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: PainInTheASP: Don't fark with my Visual Studio

They already did.

/you HAVE seen the new color scheme, yes?


You should DEFINITELY check out the color scheme add-on. In addition to the "no caps-lock" menu options add-on. Much much better.
 
2013-06-19 07:58:10 PM  
Question: What about before they said you installed the game then could throw the disk away? Will you now have to keep the disk to play it?
I have no intention of getting one (for a while, at least) so that sorta intrigued me. I also don't like to buy used games (I've bought 3, but only because there were no new copies) so the old DRM didn't bother me.
 
2013-06-19 07:58:25 PM  

Mangoose: "Xbox One hardware is not compatible with Xbox 360 games. We designed Xbox One to play an entirely new generation of games-games that are architected to take full advantage of state-of-the-art processors and the infinite power of the cloud. "

That's some mighty fine bullshiat you got there.


The PS4 isn't backwards compatible either, you should try to not talk about things you don't know anything about.
 
2013-06-19 07:59:19 PM  

Elegy: Someothermonkey: Elegy: Sony bricks users consoles with upgraded HDDs, MS reverses on DRM.

[img.fark.net image 294x515]

I need more popcorn.

hahaha. Nice try. What happened to digital only was the future and consumers were going to buy the DRM-laden console anyway because they have no impulse control?

I don't know, what happened to it?


Not sure where the steambox is in terms of development, but its still the most promising candidate of these single-purpose toys that nestle beneath a TV in hopes that PC doesn't crush them.

/Valve figured out how to do DRM right
 
2013-06-19 08:00:02 PM  

Witty_Retort: Question: What about before they said you installed the game then could throw the disk away? Will you now have to keep the disk to play it?



Seems like the disc is going to go back to being the key.
 
2013-06-19 08:00:08 PM  

Elegy: Someothermonkey: Elegy: Sony bricks users consoles with upgraded HDDs, MS reverses on DRM.

[img.fark.net image 294x515]

I need more popcorn.

hahaha. Nice try. What happened to digital only was the future and consumers were going to buy the DRM-laden console anyway because they have no impulse control?

I don't know, what happened to it?


They did a 180.
 
2013-06-19 08:00:33 PM  

change1211: Mangoose: "Xbox One hardware is not compatible with Xbox 360 games. We designed Xbox One to play an entirely new generation of games-games that are architected to take full advantage of state-of-the-art processors and the infinite power of the cloud. "

That's some mighty fine bullshiat you got there.

The PS4 isn't backwards compatible either, you should try to not talk about things you don't know anything about.


What if, what if there were other x86 platforms that proved that such a claim was utter bullshiat....what if...
 
2013-06-19 08:01:07 PM  

Witty_Retort: Question: What about before they said you installed the game then could throw the disk away? Will you now have to keep the disk to play it?
I have no intention of getting one (for a while, at least) so that sorta intrigued me. I also don't like to buy used games (I've bought 3, but only because there were no new copies) so the old DRM didn't bother me.


You can do that now on either PS3 or Xbox 360 if you just buy digital copies. Which isn't as good as it sounds because for some insane reason it was often cheaper to buy a copy in-store than buy one digitally.
 
2013-06-19 08:01:40 PM  
Oh and to the PS3 bricking update, 360 did that as well...one year after launch!
 
2013-06-19 08:02:01 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: When I initially watched the Ryse demo, I was kind of excited. I'm a big fan of the Roman era and it was cool to see it being brought to life. Ten minutes into the demo my primary thought was, "What's up with all the farking QTEs? Is this the year 2000, still?"


The best part is that one of the Kotaku writers asked how come he couldn't fail the QTEs and the attendant said they didn't want players to become "frustrated".  (In fairness, the fact you could actually fail one of those things is farking remarkable and only something a Kotaku writer could do.)
 
2013-06-19 08:02:36 PM  

change1211: Mangoose: "Xbox One hardware is not compatible with Xbox 360 games. We designed Xbox One to play an entirely new generation of games-games that are architected to take full advantage of state-of-the-art processors and the infinite power of the cloud. "

That's some mighty fine bullshiat you got there.

The PS4 isn't backwards compatible either, you should try to not talk about things you don't know anything about.


Do you have a source for this? I've heard both that it was going to be, period, and also that it would be, but only for streaming titles. This is the first I've heard that it flat out won't be.
 
2013-06-19 08:04:45 PM  
Can Microsoft embarrass itself any more?

First they attempted to get behind quite possibly the least consumer-friendly DRM plan to date, then they fail to stand up for their own methods and prove that they haven't got the spine to support the controversial measure of their own making.
 
2013-06-19 08:05:05 PM  

Mike_LowELL: The best part is that one of the Kotaku writers asked how come he couldn't fail the QTEs and the attendant said they didn't want players to become "frustrated".


Seriously!? Wow, I didn't realize how unironic your sarcasm was.
 
2013-06-19 08:05:16 PM  

Virtual Pariah: Witty_Retort: Question: What about before they said you installed the game then could throw the disk away? Will you now have to keep the disk to play it?


Seems like the disc is going to go back to being the key.


Awesome.  : /

btw, GoG has about 500 games on sale. No DRM, no disk.

/PC Master Race
 
2013-06-19 08:07:10 PM  

eddievercetti: Oh and to the PS3 bricking update, 360 did that as well...one year after launch!


pedant: Technically the update didn't brick the PS3s since they can  be fixed with a USB drive and a software update.
 
2013-06-19 08:09:44 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: change1211: Mangoose: "Xbox One hardware is not compatible with Xbox 360 games. We designed Xbox One to play an entirely new generation of games-games that are architected to take full advantage of state-of-the-art processors and the infinite power of the cloud. "

That's some mighty fine bullshiat you got there.

The PS4 isn't backwards compatible either, you should try to not talk about things you don't know anything about.

Do you have a source for this? I've heard both that it was going to be, period, and also that it would be, but only for streaming titles. This is the first I've heard that it flat out won't be.


Last I heard, PS4 is not stick-an-old-disk-in-and-play backwards compatible. You buy almost any old game (even PS1, 2 and 3 games you have already bought digitally on your gamer tag) and then the video is streamed to your console and you control it.
 
2013-06-19 08:11:18 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Do you have a source for this? I've heard both that it was going to be, period, and also that it would be, but only for streaming titles. This is the first I've heard that it flat out won't be.


Out of the box the PS4 isn't backwards compatible.  They are promising it at some point through their streaming service.  However, since it won't happen until some point after launch who knows when if will turn up or if it will be practical or just a gimmick.  Home I'm looking at you.
 
2013-06-19 08:12:21 PM  
Cliffy B: No DRM = The end of gaming as you know it!, MORE TRANSACTIONS, MORE MULTIPLAYER, MORE DLC! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

Again, has he made anything of relevance lately?
 
2013-06-19 08:15:12 PM  

justtray: Frank N Stein: justtray: http://www.fark.com/users/justtray">justtray    http://www.fark.com/totalfarksignup" target=_top>http://img.fark.net/images/2003/totalfark.gif" width=54 height=11>
First it's ironic that Sony is now taking the high ground on anti-DRM.

Secondly, Microsoft will cave to public opinion on this. They're stupid, but not stubbornly so.


11 Jun 2013 05:50 PM

We're all proud of you.

This is what butthurt in text form looks like.


img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 08:16:03 PM  

RexTalionis: codergirl42: Yeah it's not like you ever had to outstretch your arms for extended periods of times in real life.

Typically, I don't. They usually just hang at my side. I am not a Chinese vampire.


You Sound Fat
 
2013-06-19 08:16:22 PM  

Witty_Retort: Virtual Pariah: Witty_Retort: Question: What about before they said you installed the game then could throw the disk away? Will you now have to keep the disk to play it?


Seems like the disc is going to go back to being the key.

Awesome.  : /

btw, GoG has about 500 games on sale. No DRM, no disk.

/PC Master Race


General GoG question.

Say I pick up a classic like Ultima 7 at the wonderful price of $2.99.

Will it just work?

I have to admit that U7 was the game that capped the end of my PC gaming.
The Memory Manager was a complete mess, and I kept losing my backpack items.

To the point that I had to send my disk in to have it edited.
 
2013-06-19 08:16:52 PM  

Nefarious: Some 'Splainin' To Do: Do you have a source for this? I've heard both that it was going to be, period, and also that it would be, but only for streaming titles. This is the first I've heard that it flat out won't be.

Out of the box the PS4 isn't backwards compatible.  They are promising it at some point through their streaming service.  However, since it won't happen until some point after launch who knows when if will turn up or if it will be practical or just a gimmick.  Home I'm looking at you.


They're saying Gaikai will be ready by 2014. They didn't specify if it was early or late 2014 though. And they're still debating whether or not to put it behind the plus paywall.
 
2013-06-19 08:17:29 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: change1211: Mangoose: "Xbox One hardware is not compatible with Xbox 360 games. We designed Xbox One to play an entirely new generation of games-games that are architected to take full advantage of state-of-the-art processors and the infinite power of the cloud. "

That's some mighty fine bullshiat you got there.

The PS4 isn't backwards compatible either, you should try to not talk about things you don't know anything about.

Do you have a source for this? I've heard both that it was going to be, period, and also that it would be, but only for streaming titles. This is the first I've heard that it flat out won't be.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4#Backward_compatibility

Both consoles are switching to a new architecture, therefore neither console can play old disks.
 
2013-06-19 08:19:12 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Absolutely disgusting.  If I go into your house and break something, I would go to jail, if I was poor.  You walked into Microsoft's consumer market and broke their business model.  You imbeciles caused billions of dollars of damage to a corporation.  How is that not a criminal offense?


Why so mad? This might actually increase sales for a system people ran away from.
 
2013-06-19 08:19:49 PM  

ajgeek: That was slower than I anticipated. I thought they'd reverse a couple weeks ago.

Q:    Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games?
A:     We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We'll have more details to share later.

This particular FAQ is hilarious. "Designing" indeed.


They're going to have their own pawn shop, let you sell your used games to them waaaay under value, then they'll resell them to other people at a big mark-up, so they'll be able to profit 4-5 times over from one game.
 
2013-06-19 08:20:46 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Seriously!? Wow, I didn't realize how unironic your sarcasm was.


I read off-hand that the developer build isn't final, but that's obvious when you're talking about E3 demonstrations.  There's always the chance that they change it, but yes, you have a game where every sword-strike past the initiating attack plays out through a QTE that you cannot fail.  And people thought Arkham Asylum soiled the good graces of the Japanese beat 'em ups from the sixth gen.

eddievercetti: Again, has he made anything of relevance lately?


I know this may sound a little bit silly, since I'm currently playing and enjoying Unreal, but Unreal Tournament 3 will continue to leave a bad taste in my mouth.  And no, not really.  I dunno what happened to him.  Maybe he wants a way back into the game industry and doesn't want to buck the status quo.  Either way, he's been a bit of a pain in the ass.
 
2013-06-19 08:22:13 PM  
I've got a Gamerscore of 30,000 on xbox. Almost my entire gaming experience has been nothing but xbox. I'm a customer that MS would assume to stay loyal under almost any condition, yet they still can't figure out that it's the farking Kinect that's driving customers away.

I already pre-ordered two PS4's for our house.
 
2013-06-19 08:22:17 PM  

ajgeek: That was slower than I anticipated. I thought they'd reverse a couple weeks ago.

Q:    Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games?
A:    We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We'll have more details to share later.

This particular FAQ is hilarious. "Designing" indeed.


I worked at MSFT as an intern.   6 months for the design/build/test process (LOT of moving parts with buy-in from a LOT of teams editing a LOT of existing code, and in the process, creating a LOT of bugs that need to be fixed) sounds about right.   In theory, it's a simple remove. In reality, there's a lot of code with the built-in assumption "This game appears with this user and nowhere else"
 
2013-06-19 08:23:12 PM  
The cloud makes every experience better and more accessible.

I'm not sure I'd buy any product from any company that made this claim.
 
2013-06-19 08:24:01 PM  

wuma: Why so mad? This might actually increase sales for a system people ran away from.


You know why Microsoft called it the Xbox One?  Because in five years, all the billions of Xbox Ones were going to merge to form the singularity.  The human era would have ended, and now it will not, because "the Xbox One is a terrible product".  Congratulations.
 
2013-06-19 08:26:39 PM  
So pissed they got rid of the shared games library and the ability to share my games with 10 "family" members.
 
2013-06-19 08:28:02 PM  

Virtual Pariah: Witty_Retort: Question: What about before they said you installed the game then could throw the disk away? Will you now have to keep the disk to play it?


Seems like the disc is going to go back to being the key.


Which is a bit of a let down, as I was genuinely curious to see what would happen when a console strays closer to the PC way of doing things.
I was sure they'd push it to launch at least.

/In the end the PC is still the biggest winner.
/It gets Oculus, it gets many of its own exclusives and all manner of controllers, it has the best specs and it is also disk free.
 
2013-06-19 08:29:27 PM  
I got the Xbox logo tattooed on my face and named my kids Chief, Halo, and Ballmer. So you can trust that I'm the biggest Microsoft fan who has ever Microsofted. But I'm so mad about something or the other that I'm buying a PS4.

/Honestly
 
2013-06-19 08:29:53 PM  
Virtual Pariah:

Say I pick up a classic like Ultima 7 at the wonderful price of $2.99.

Will it just work?

I have to admit that U7 was the game that capped the end of my PC gaming.
The Memory Manager was a complete mess, and I kept losing my backpack items.

To the point that I had to send my disk in to have it edited.


I guess so I think older games come with a custom set-up for DOS-Box. Also, there is a very active community that will help out for custom solutions.
compatible with   Windows (XP, Vista, 7, 8) and Mac OS X (10.6.8 or newer)
 
2013-06-19 08:30:15 PM  

eddievercetti: Still 100 bucks more expensive and still needs the Kinect to play. Fark off Don.

I'll stick with PS3 XBox 360 and Steam. PS4  Steambox as soon as available.


FTFM
 
2013-06-19 08:31:57 PM  
Way to ruin holodecks for the rest of us, Sonyboys.  Microsoft was the future, now it's over.

This is worse than 9/11, Hitler, Stalin and Obama all put together.
 
2013-06-19 08:36:43 PM  

change1211: Mangoose: "Xbox One hardware is not compatible with Xbox 360 games. We designed Xbox One to play an entirely new generation of games-games that are architected to take full advantage of state-of-the-art processors and the infinite power of the cloud. "

That's some mighty fine bullshiat you got there.

The PS4 isn't backwards compatible either, you should try to not talk about things you don't know anything about.


I'm commenting on a pr statement. You should try not to be such a punk.
 
2013-06-19 08:39:04 PM  

Mike_LowELL: wuma: Why so mad? This might actually increase sales for a system people ran away from.

You know why Microsoft called it the Xbox One?  Because in five years, all the billions of Xbox Ones were going to merge to form the singularity.  The human era would have ended, and now it will not, because "the Xbox One is a terrible product".  Congratulations.


The Trapper Keepers would never let that happen.
 
2013-06-19 08:41:15 PM  
Thats the StalkerBox One80 subbs...
 
2013-06-19 08:43:41 PM  
Still holding out for a Steambox.
 
2013-06-19 08:43:45 PM  

Cytokine Storm: Way to ruin holodecks for the rest of us, Sonyboys.  Microsoft was the future, now it's over.

This is worse than 9/11, Hitler, Stalin and Obama all put together.


Other than pointing and laughing, I wasn't exactly yelling outrage at Microsoft.  I'm guessing Sony fanboys did much of the same; they don't give two shiats about the Xbox One, only that their system isn't following the same practices.

So here's something else I'm curious about.  If the Xbox One is region free and back to normal DRM practices, does that mean it's available in more countries?  One of the biggest hits with Xbox One preorders was that the console only worked in 21 countries.  Half of Europe and all of Asia couldn't buy it... that still the case?

I still think that's what turned Microsoft around... not the DRM practices, but that 2/3 of the farking civilized world can't use your console because of them.
 
2013-06-19 08:45:02 PM  
They are lying to you.

They realize that they won't be able to move hardware, so they've changed their policy - for now. Just wait. Once they hit their sales targets, it won't take much to change those policies back to something a bit more restrictive - and by that time, you've dropped your money on the Xbox One instead of the PS4, so you're now "stuck" with their more oppressive policies.

After all, it was easy enough to do an about-face, even as their PR folks laughed at you for protesting. Nothing stops them from doing another about-face once they've sold enough folks on the hardware.
 
2013-06-19 08:49:53 PM  

FormlessOne: They are lying to you.

They realize that they won't be able to move hardware, so they've changed their policy - for now. Just wait. Once they hit their sales targets, it won't take much to change those policies back to something a bit more restrictive - and by that time, you've dropped your money on the Xbox One instead of the PS4, so you're now "stuck" with their more oppressive policies.

After all, it was easy enough to do an about-face, even as their PR folks laughed at you for protesting. Nothing stops them from doing another about-face once they've sold enough folks on the hardware.


Kinda like Sony and the PS3? How do we know Sony won't do what they've done in the past again?
 
2013-06-19 08:51:25 PM  
Xbox One hardware is not compatible with Xbox 360 games. We designed Xbox One to play an entirely new generation of games-games that are architected to take full advantage of state-of-the-art processors and the infinite power of the cloud.

Cool, so now it's just a shiatty console and not an active detriment to the quality of life for everyone in a 500-m radius.
 
2013-06-19 08:52:19 PM  
There sure is a lot of butthurt for a children's toy
 
2013-06-19 08:54:22 PM  
BTW, has anyone nominated Subby for Headline of the Year?
 
2013-06-19 08:54:57 PM  

FlashHarry: behold the power of social media.

the always-on camera is still spooky though.


Wouldn't a little bit of tape solve that problem?
 
2013-06-19 08:57:55 PM  

Stone Meadow: BTW, has anyone nominated Subby for Headline of the Year?


For the obvious joke that was make everywhere at once?
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/19/xbox-one-80-microsoft-reverses-xbo x- one-drm-features/
 
2013-06-19 08:59:26 PM  

degenerate-afro: Stone Meadow: BTW, has anyone nominated Subby for Headline of the Year?

For the obvious joke that was make everywhere at once?
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/19/xbox-one-80-microsoft-reverses-xbo x- one-drm-features/


Okay, it may not be original, but at least it's timely. :)
 
2013-06-19 08:59:42 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 09:00:23 PM  

change1211: FormlessOne: They are lying to you.

They realize that they won't be able to move hardware, so they've changed their policy - for now. Just wait. Once they hit their sales targets, it won't take much to change those policies back to something a bit more restrictive - and by that time, you've dropped your money on the Xbox One instead of the PS4, so you're now "stuck" with their more oppressive policies.

After all, it was easy enough to do an about-face, even as their PR folks laughed at you for protesting. Nothing stops them from doing another about-face once they've sold enough folks on the hardware.

Kinda like Sony and the PS3? How do we know Sony won't do what they've done in the past again?


What exactly did Sony do that they took back, and can now might do again?
 
2013-06-19 09:02:46 PM  
So I can play Forza 5 and Titanfall without the slightest twinge of concern now...  I'm... I'm in?

Wow I'm totally in!

/Thanks M$
 
2013-06-19 09:03:12 PM  
Awesome. I was getting one anyway and I'm old and employed and very busy so the chances of me trading or hunting down used games was nil anyway but I do like it when companies listen to their customers.
 
2013-06-19 09:05:56 PM  

FlashHarry: behold the power of social media.

the always-on camera is still spooky though.


How hard is it to turn it 180 degrees and face it towards a wall?
 
2013-06-19 09:09:17 PM  
No now no sharing digital digital games. That's a win.

Oh and love the consistency of nerd rage. Remember all the nerds who would have died rather than buy Sony after they nixed Linux boot and had those rootkits and got hacked? Lot of them seem to have pre-ordered a PS4.

Nerd rage. As ephemeral as kitten farts.
 
2013-06-19 09:12:12 PM  
I forgot where I heard this but I find it funny.

Whenever I see the phrase "The cloud" I replace it with "the butt".
 
2013-06-19 09:12:24 PM  

Someothermonkey: What exactly did Sony do that they took back, and can now might do again?


They took away the Linux option.  Those seven guys who turned their PS4 into a Linux computer are still really butthurt about it.  Of course, the new model doesn't have that option, but they can still take it away if you think about time in a non-linear fashion!
 
2013-06-19 09:16:42 PM  
I wasn't buying one for many reasons.  They have eliminated one of them.

I suppose Microsoft can pat themselves on the back for that if they feel it necessary.
 
2013-06-19 09:21:50 PM  
Kill the kinect and chop off 150 dollars, make netflix and other video/audio services function without your shiatty xbox live subscription.  And get Kingdom Heart 3, then I will buy you.
 
2013-06-19 09:24:13 PM  

narkor: Remember all the nerds who would have died rather than buy Sony after they nixed Linux boot and had those rootkits and got hacked? Lot of them seem to have pre-ordered a PS4.


Are those really the same people? can you name one person who said they were boycotting sony then preordered a PS4?

Soup4Bonnie: I wasn't buying one for many reasons.  They have eliminated one of them.


Yeah, I mean; this is good and all, but it's still significantly less powerful than the PS4 and a hundred bucks more expensive. The DRM stuff has seen the lion's share of the criticism aimed at the console, but it's not the only reason people aren't overly enthusiastic for the Xbone.
 
2013-06-19 09:31:10 PM  
There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?
 
2013-06-19 09:32:10 PM  

Thisbymaster: Kill the kinect and chop off 150 dollars, make netflix and other video/audio services function without your shiatty xbox live subscription.  And get Kingdom Heart 3, then I will buy you.


So, all they have to do is do everything you want with nothing you don't and you'll buy it. If that's your criteria for everything you must live quite a spartan existence.
 
2013-06-19 09:35:46 PM  

MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?


Because none of it was a big deal to most of us? If you buy the games you want the used games policy doesn't matter, and since I already have a Kinect and a 360 that's on and connected more often than not I give that part of it a big meh. It's really not a big deal. None of it is. The only thing that matters is the price.
 
2013-06-19 09:36:09 PM  

MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?


for real...  All limitations are self imposed.   Microsoft can make it work however the fark they want.
 
2013-06-19 09:36:51 PM  
I just bought a new 360. I still have a stack of games to get through and games I wanted to play that I haven't even bought yet (at last count, I had 41 xbox 360 games in my house ... if you count both versions of fallout 3 (regular and GOTY)).

My old launch era console was dying (optical drive failure), I tried to fix it by doing the two simple swaps and no dice, still have problems reading certain disks. I held out until the E3, saw the xbox one then said F it I'm getting another 360.

// Got the S version, not the new one that's set up to look like an xbone. Basically, I'm already using all of the HDMI connections and on the xbone clone they got rid of the component output.

Basically, they removed ports and shiat and still charge you the same price. Sorry, I'll take the previous version (the bundle that comes with Darksiders 2 and one of the batman games for the same price, thanks.
 
2013-06-19 09:38:44 PM  

Jedekai: Everyone hates the Kinect. They think it's stupid - me? I don't have a problem with it... (CUE CLARKSON!)...
AND THIS IS WHY:

[www.7outof10.co.uk image 850x478]

Play Forza 4/Horizon with it once. ONCE.

You will never touch the controller again. Wheel and pedal combos? OBSOLETE! The best ($30,000,000 in R&D) racing controller ever!

/I fully expect to see Stig helmets aplenty vs. Guy Fawkes masks.


Do you accelerate by going "Vrooooom" and hit the brakes by yelling "Screeeeeeeeeeeeech"?

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 09:39:09 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-19 09:41:32 PM  
scottydoesntknow: An internet connection will not be required to play offline Xbox One games - After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360.

It was several threads ago, before we had any concrete information, that I mentioned that this is how I would have expected it to work (IE, if you have the disk, you have the disk and don't need to connect). And my theory was that the 24 hour phone home thing was just for installed games.

But boy, was I wrong, so very wrong, that I was ashamed when they actually released the details.

Now, with this backstepping, I feel like I can show my face to the world again :D

// Microsoft, this is what you should have announced in the first place, dumbasses.
 
2013-06-19 09:42:17 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-19 09:44:12 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: If you buy the games you want the used games policy doesn't matter, and since I already have a Kinect and a 360 that's on and connected more often than not I give that part of it a big meh. It's really not a big deal. None of it is.


I have a 360 and a Kinect but I'm not online.  I don't play with other people.  Always on or even just checking in every 24 hours was a big deal to me, but only one of the big deals.  The used game thing was ridiculous, too.  The kinect thing, too.  I never use it, so thanks a lot for making it even more intrusive and making me buy it.  Not sure what this product does offer me that I actually want.

As for buying a PS4; no thanks.  There are still a bajillion and a half 360 games that I own that I'm not through let alone the rest of the catalog.    I'm good for quite some time.
 
2013-06-19 09:44:37 PM  

MythDragon: Why are people actualy mad about this?


They bought into MS's marketing BS that this would somehow lead to cheap high-quality games. The argument goes something like:

1) Enforce DRM that makes it difficult for people to trade or sell games.
2) This means that developers don't have to worry about making games that people will enjoy for a long period of time.
3) Therefore higher quality games, somehow. Also they'll lower the price, because as we all know, when someone makes a lot of money they stop wanting more.

I personally don't find the "logic" overly convincing. I guess they kinda have a point in that it could result in less crappy tacked-on multiplayer and pointless DLC (as those are mostly made to extend the life of short games), but it could also just as easily result in even shorter single player campaigns and fewer sales (as they don't need to compete with Gamestop's used section).
 
2013-06-19 09:44:52 PM  

MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?


Lots of the original xbone apologists believed that microsoft would institute steam like sales immediately. Even though prices on the Xbox online market (and the PSN for what's it worth, although they are getting better with this) are often more than their physical counterparts.

Gamefaqs is still full of 13 year old trolls though.
 
2013-06-19 09:49:55 PM  

TheOmni: It's not no DRM. It's just back to the shiatty DRM we have had before instead of a new and differently shiatty DRM.


What DRM?  You buy a game disc, you can play the game from the disc.  Any Xbox with the disc in it can play the game.  That's not DRM.  Game consoles have operated that way for 35 years.
 
2013-06-19 09:51:17 PM  
I don't get why they can't implement the best of both schemes. If their all digital thing was so world changing and wonderful, keep that part just the way they planned. Do crazy sales like steam, let us share those with friends who are online, all that. But if I pay full price for a physical disc, and I put that disc in the console (as opposed to choosing to install it to the hard drive), it damn well better play it whether I have internet at the moment or not.

They've caved, sure, but now it's like they are being spiteful about it just to prove a point or something.
 
2013-06-19 09:52:28 PM  

Elegy: I'm actually a little bummed that MS backed down. I understand why they did it - Internet hate machine was steamrolling them and all - but with the DRM checking came the ability loan out digital copies of my game library, meaning I could have swapped games with my XBL friends. Now, no DRM, back to shiatty single-use licensing for digital content.

However, I do understand why that trade off doesn't work for soldiers, people with dodgy Internet connections, and the global market, and I do think MS made the right move

FlashHarry: the always-on camera is still spooky though.

DanZero: And yes, still no word on the invasive camera.

snuffy: still there is bills unblinking eye on you.

Yeahhhhh, that ones been debunked.


This is what I've been telling all my friends. Everyone was freaking out and taking the used game market the wrong way. This was a cool idea killed by small minded people. Im sure M$ execution of the market would have been less than it could have been but still being able to digitially loan a game would be cool. At the least I would take loaning games digitally over getting 5$ at gamestop... Thats what they get for trying to reinvent the wheel though considering the majority of the console community aren't big thinkers its not suprising.
 
2013-06-19 09:53:54 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?

Because none of it was a big deal to most of us? If you buy the games you want the used games policy doesn't matter, and since I already have a Kinect and a 360 that's on and connected more often than not I give that part of it a big meh. It's really not a big deal. None of it is. The only thing that matters is the price.


LOL

Microsoft just went through with a massive reversal, further damaging their reputation and credibility not only with consumers but with publishers and developers who were sold on their DRM policies, over something that 'really not a big deal.'

I mean, seriously?

You would think people would understand that just because Microsoft's anti-consumer policies didn't affect them, it doesn't mean they're suddenly a majority. The very fact microsoft would go back on their initial policies is proof enough. The arrogance is astounding really.
 
2013-06-19 09:55:16 PM  

degenerate-afro: The 10 person model, while ambitious was shooting themselves in the foot. Sure it SOUNDS nice to have 1 person buy a game and 10 different people play it, but when that option requires that you no longer OWN the game, it's a problem.


Except that the 10 people would not be allowed to play the game at the same time.  If two people wanted to play the same game at the same time on two different consoles in your house, you would still have to buy two copies of it.  The only thing the DRM did is eliminate the need to have a disc.
 
2013-06-19 09:57:53 PM  
Seems I should continue to follow my "console policy"...let all the arguing fanboys be the early adopters, let the manufacturers change their ideas and implementations, let developers actually see what features the community likes...come in a while later and see where they actually stand when the prices are a bit more reasonable and their respective libraries are a bit more robust.

Admittedly, Sony's price point has tempted me to pick one up at launch--but rarely have I found a "launch game" experience to be anything more than a previous gen game with slightly better graphics.  It takes a couple of generations of games before they're really using the full hardware capabilities and stretching the boundaries.

All this hand wringing and gnashing of teeth has been fun to listen to, though.  And still waiting for a game that's as fun as playing Goldeneye64 on the couch with my friends.  Only FPS style game I've ever enjoyed enough to play for more than 20-30 minutes.

Let's see how these two shape up around May-June of next year.  And see how many titles each has that actually appeal.  Then we'll see who gets my money.  Not before.

/full disclosure
//PS2-PS3-Wii-N64
///MS hasn't managed to attract me with any of their consoles/exclusives
////N64 still gets weekly use, though
 
2013-06-19 10:03:59 PM  

space1999: degenerate-afro: The 10 person model, while ambitious was shooting themselves in the foot. Sure it SOUNDS nice to have 1 person buy a game and 10 different people play it, but when that option requires that you no longer OWN the game, it's a problem.

Except that the 10 people would not be allowed to play the game at the same time.  If two people wanted to play the same game at the same time on two different consoles in your house, you would still have to buy two copies of it.  The only thing the DRM did is eliminate the need to have a disc.


It was vaporware, and their morning meeting with publishers (saying frak that) refusing today probably lead to this 4:30PM policy change.

If you honestly believe that MS would implement all this anti-consumer, walled garden DRM and then basically allow you to pay 1/10th the price for "family shared" games, I got a bridge to sell you.  Things too good to be true and not true.  Just look at the damn timeline and you'll see this was thought up in a panic after their flop release conference and the DRM bomb going off.  Going into E3 they needed some sort of good PR, especially with none of their games running on dev kits yet.  Enter the Family Plan!  Unfortunately they forgot to notify the publishers.

Sony actually already had this on PSN, with sharing over 5 different consoles.  Publisher revolted and shut it down damn quick.  There's no way this was ever reality, and if it was it was just a hook that would have reeled people in before the hatched came down.  Publishers aren't in the business of selling new games for $10.
 
2013-06-19 10:04:02 PM  

Someothermonkey: Adolf Oliver Nipples: MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?

Because none of it was a big deal to most of us? If you buy the games you want the used games policy doesn't matter, and since I already have a Kinect and a 360 that's on and connected more often than not I give that part of it a big meh. It's really not a big deal. None of it is. The only thing that matters is the price.

LOL

Microsoft just went through with a massive reversal, further damaging their reputation and credibility not only with consumers but with publishers and developers who were sold on their DRM policies, over something that 'really not a big deal.'

I mean, seriously?

You would think people would understand that just because Microsoft's anti-consumer policies didn't affect them, it doesn't mean they're suddenly a majority. The very fact microsoft would go back on their initial policies is proof enough. The arrogance is astounding really.


It's NOT a big deal. Things become big deals because people get wound up about them, often for no good reason. I've heard the reasons, but they're not good ones.  Do you really think that Microsoft is going to be watching you with always-on Kinect? Do you really think that trading intellectual property away after you've used it doesn't hurt the developers financially and that they shouldn't have an interest in trying to protect their creations?

To quote you.. I mean, seriously?

Now, you may actually believe these things, in which case there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. As it is I've already wasted my time because I know you believe these things. But for most of us it makes no difference. We play the games we want, we don't worry about spying, and we enjoy ourselves. If that's not for you, please stick with the XBox 360/PS3/Wii/Dreamcast/Intellivison/2600/Vectrex/whatever.
 
2013-06-19 10:07:22 PM  

MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?


I'm annoyed at this change.  I couldn't care less about used games because I don't sell my games and it's been years since I bought one.  What I was looking forward to most was disc-less gaming.  Just install the game and then you can switch between TV, apps, or any game seamlessly.  Now you'll need to swap discs to switch between games.  No more playing one game, getting an invite to another game and switching without digging around on your shelves to find the new disc.

I can still get a similar experience buying the full games off of XBL, but my bandwidth caps suck so I'll be paying a lot of overage fees if I want to enjoy disc-less gaming and if I delete something from the HDD I'll need to re-download it rather than reinstalling it from a disc.  It's stupid that the same data needs to be treated differently just because one set of data was downloaded and the other set was burned to a CD and shipped.  It's not a popular opinion, but I would rather that MS did away with used games as a means of disabling the 24 hour check-in rather than leaving used games intact and requiring a disc check before playing.
 
2013-06-19 10:21:37 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Someothermonkey: Adolf Oliver Nipples: MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?

Because none of it was a big deal to most of us? If you buy the games you want the used games policy doesn't matter, and since I already have a Kinect and a 360 that's on and connected more often than not I give that part of it a big meh. It's really not a big deal. None of it is. The only thing that matters is the price.

LOL

Microsoft just went through with a massive reversal, further damaging their reputation and credibility not only with consumers but with publishers and developers who were sold on their DRM policies, over something that 'really not a big deal.'

I mean, seriously?

You would think people would understand that just because Microsoft's anti-consumer policies didn't affect them, it doesn't mean they're suddenly a majority. The very fact microsoft would go back on their initial policies is proof enough. The arrogance is astounding really.

It's NOT a big deal. Things become big deals because people get wound up about them, often for no good reason. I've heard the reasons, but they're not good ones.  Do you really think that Microsoft is going to be watching you with always-on Kinect? Do you really think that trading intellectual property away after you've used it doesn't hurt the developers financially and that they shouldn't have an interest in trying to protect their creations?

To quote you.. I mean, seriously?

Now, you may actually believe these things, in which case there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. As it is I've already wasted my time because I know you believe these things. But for most of us it makes no difference. We play the games we want, we don't worry about spying, and we enjoy ourselves. I ...


Oh wow.

First of all, nice straw man. I never mentioned anything about the kinect. So why even go there other than to spin your deluded little narrative?

Secondly, I can't tell if you're being serious or just being terribly disingenuous about this whole affair. It's not a big deal? really? Says who?

I'm not sure if you're capable of understanding this, but just because it wasn't a big deal to you, doesn't mean it wasn't a big deal to others. Microsoft was trying to destroy the first sale doctrine and the traditional concept of ownership over physical products. That is a big deal, even if you're not capable of realizing it.

Publishers/Developers get their money from the first sale. They do not deserve seconds cuts - no other industry tries to do this, but for some reason, entitled, spoiled and whiny developers in the game industry think they deserve it. Sheer lunacy.

I believe spying rumors on the Kinect? Please, feel free to point out where I said that. Otherwise, you might not want to lie so blatantly and when you know you don't have an argument worth anything.

Oh, and don't worry, I'll stick to gaming on other consoles. Fortunately, I don't have a corporate hand stuck up my ass like you do and feel the need to defend blatantly anti-consumer policies.
 
2013-06-19 10:26:14 PM  

Elegy: I'm actually a little bummed that MS backed down. I understand why they did it - Internet hate machine was steamrolling them and all - but with the DRM checking came the ability loan out digital copies of my game library, meaning I could have swapped games with my XBL friends. Now, no DRM, back to shiatty single-use licensing for digital content.

However, I do understand why that trade off doesn't work for soldiers, people with dodgy Internet connections, and the global market, and I do think MS made the right move


It still might not work for them. The link says any new game requires a one time system setup but doesn't say weather or not you need to be connected when you do this. I worry that microsoft wants some kind of authorization one time check in to play any new games which would still require the internet.

FlashHarry: the always-on camera is still spooky though.

DanZero: And yes, still no word on the invasive camera.

snuffy: still there is bills unblinking eye on you.

Yeahhhhh, that ones been debunked.


I read that "debunked" and no it hasn't. Tell me i can disconnect the camera and put it away and we'll talk.
 
2013-06-19 10:31:22 PM  
Too late. I aint planning on going back to MS. PS4, here I go.
 
2013-06-19 10:31:57 PM  

MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?




There was alot of speculation from people (myself included) about what the new model might mean to players and the industry. There was also endless doomsaying from those who didn't want change.
Good, bad, it was at least different to the "it just does games" approach of Sony and Nintendo. Its disappointing to not get to see the theory in action and find out who was right.

That said, Microsoft fully acquiesced to customer demands on the same day that Sony showed its customer service skills be randomly breaking people's systems.

There is something rather ironic about that.
 
2013-06-19 10:38:20 PM  

space1999: TheOmni: It's not no DRM. It's just back to the shiatty DRM we have had before instead of a new and differently shiatty DRM.

What DRM?  You buy a game disc, you can play the game from the disc.  Any Xbox with the disc in it can play the game.  That's not DRM.  Game consoles have operated that way for 35 years.


It's DRM. Just because everyone co-opts the word DRM to mean something new every year doesn't mean no DRM. The most basic definition of DRM is copy-protection. DRM covers everything from region-locking and hardware incompatibility to persistent online authentication, which is what we're talking about.

It's not "no DRM." It's "some DRM." Just because it's common or old doesn't mean it's not DRM.
 
2013-06-19 10:38:35 PM  

Someothermonkey: I'm not sure if you're capable of understanding this, but just because it wasn't a big deal to you, doesn't mean it wasn't a big deal to others. Microsoft was trying to destroy the first sale doctrine and the traditional concept of ownership over physical products. That is a big deal, even if you're not capable of realizing it.


I can think of lots of "big deals" that really aren't. There are some threads in the Politics tab right now attesting to that. That doesn't make them actual big deals, it makes the people who believe them paranoid loonies. More to follow.

Someothermonkey: I believe spying rumors on the Kinect? Please, feel free to point out where I said that. Otherwise, you might not want to lie so blatantly and when you know you don't have an argument worth anything.


I don't give a shiat if you personally believe this one or not. This is one of those "big deals" that isn't. Scroll up and read at your leisure. Lots of people do believe it, and since it's one of those "reversals" (since always-on is now "gone", even though it always was) it's part of the argument.

Someothermonkey: Publishers/Developers get their money from the first sale. They do not deserve seconds cuts - no other industry tries to do this, but for some reason, entitled, spoiled and whiny developers in the game industry think they deserve it. Sheer lunacy.


EVERY industry tries to get a second bite of the apple. Some are more successful than others. But let's play this through. You (this time it is you personally I am talking to) create a game. One person buys it and gives it to 10 other people. You get paid once. You don't see the issue with that and why they might be keen on recapturing some of that? I don't care one way or the other, to be honest, but it's an easy argument to understand, and I hardly begrudge a company trying to capitalize as much as possible on their property. It's just music redux, and the existing arguments apply the same way.

Someothermonkey: Oh, and don't worry, I'll stick to gaming on other consoles. Fortunately, I don't have a corporate hand stuck up my ass like you do and feel the need to defend blatantly anti-consumer policies.


I don't defend blatantly anti-consumer policies. I assert that they are perfectly acceptable to me and the way I play games/access applications. It's clear that not everybody finds them as unacceptable as you, and I submit that if this raises your hackles you'll be going stark raving bonkers soon enough because it's the way of the future. It's inevitable. The objections to this stuff are like my Luddite stand against smart phones with my old-school flip-phone. In the end nobody notices except for me, and nobody cares about me either.
 
2013-06-19 10:43:12 PM  

TyrantII: Sony actually already had this on PSN, with sharing over 5 different consoles.  Publisher revolted and shut it down damn quick.


Nonsense. PSN Gamesharing was going on for years. There was nothing quick about its removal.
 
2013-06-19 10:55:29 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Someothermonkey: I'm not sure if you're capable of understanding this, but just because it wasn't a big deal to you, doesn't mean it wasn't a big deal to others. Microsoft was trying to destroy the first sale doctrine and the traditional concept of ownership over physical products. That is a big deal, even if you're not capable of realizing it.

I can think of lots of "big deals" that really aren't. There are some threads in the Politics tab right now attesting to that. That doesn't make them actual big deals, it makes the people who believe them paranoid loonies. More to follow.

Someothermonkey: I believe spying rumors on the Kinect? Please, feel free to point out where I said that. Otherwise, you might not want to lie so blatantly and when you know you don't have an argument worth anything.

I don't give a shiat if you personally believe this one or not. This is one of those "big deals" that isn't. Scroll up and read at your leisure. Lots of people do believe it, and since it's one of those "reversals" (since always-on is now "gone", even though it always was) it's part of the argument.

Someothermonkey: Publishers/Developers get their money from the first sale. They do not deserve seconds cuts - no other industry tries to do this, but for some reason, entitled, spoiled and whiny developers in the game industry think they deserve it. Sheer lunacy.

EVERY industry tries to get a second bite of the apple. Some are more successful than others. But let's play this through. You (this time it is you personally I am talking to) create a game. One person buys it and gives it to 10 other people. You get paid once. You don't see the issue with that and why they might be keen on recapturing some of that? I don't care one way or the other, to be honest, but it's an easy argument to understand, and I hardly begrudge a company trying to capitalize as much as possible on their property. It's just music redux, and the existing arguments apply the same way.

Someothermonkey: Oh, ...


Again, the very fact that Microsoft reversed course should be indicative that this was a big deal. You are not the centre of the universe, nor do you have the ability to dictate what other people consider a big deal or not. Get over yourself.

And seriously, they went back on their used games policies, not the kinect, which is still tied to every console, even though almost no one wants it. Who cares if others are making a big deal out of the kinect system, because that's not what Microsoft backpedaled on.

Evidently, microsoft found that destroying the first sale doctrine and the traditional concept of ownership was a big deal, so they decided not to. It's a business; they found out that screwing consumers wasn't good for the bottom line, so they pulled back. Accept it or not, right now, you are in the minority. Maybe in the future digital becomes entirely ubiquitous, but simply put, the current infrastructure is no where near capable of supporting that. And until that improves, your future will have to wait.

And yes, you are defending blatantly anti-consumer policies; at least take responsibility for your positions. Prior to the reversal, microsoft was forcing one route to gaming; online or nothing. There was no option to game otherwise. And reducing options for consumers is very much, anti-consumer. Unless you believe the less options people have, the better off they are. Which is utterly ridiculous.
 
2013-06-19 10:56:17 PM  
space1999: What DRM? You buy a game disc, you can play the game from the disc.

To elaborate on what moothemagiccow said.

DRM schemes are usually lumped in with Anti-mod schemes (the checks are somewhat the same). While in theory they prevent piracy and mods, in reality, the pirates hack this stuff in days/weeks/months.

Regular paying customers are always the ones who get the shaft from these protection schemes. For example, on my launch-era 360, something was up with the optical drive (it was giving "disk unreadable" errors on certain games (Halo 4 and only halo 4 AFAIK, seven other games I tried loaded and played just fine) brand new out of the package). Tried multiple copies of the game, same error, whereas those same copies worked fine on other xboxes.

I figured the optical drive was dying, so the techie in me thinks (hmm, just crack it open and replace it with another one) right? ... WRONG.

The EPROM on the circuit board of the optical drive has a serial number (of sorts) encoded into it. The mobo of the 360 also has the serial number encoded. If the serial number on the optical drive doesn't match the serial number on the 360, what you end up with is an expensive DVD player (it will refuse to run games).

I figured I had a problem with either the laser assembly, or the spin motor. So I bought a replacement drive off of amazon and basically swapped the internals (my original board and tray motor + the spin motor and laser assembly from the new drive).

Nope, still getting errors ... so it's either something wrong with the 360 MOBO, or something wrong with the optical disk circuit board (I ruled out the HD because I swapped that as well).

I could copy the EPROM from the optical CB and insert it into the new circuit board. But that's a moderately involved process (including the time it would take me to set up a windows box, as the tools for flashing the EPROM are windows based and are too low level to run from a VM).

My time was worth more than that, so I finally said "fark it" and bought a new 360 (using the dough that I potentially would have spent on an XBOX One.

// in the meantime, I still have a disassembled 360 and two disassembled optical drives sitting on one of my counters. Someday I will be bored enough to tinker with it again :P
 
2013-06-19 10:59:49 PM  

Someothermonkey: And yes, you are defending blatantly anti-consumer policies; at least take responsibility for your positions. Prior to the reversal, microsoft was forcing one route to gaming; online or nothing. There was no option to game otherwise. And reducing options for consumers is very much, anti-consumer. Unless you believe the less options people have, the better off they are. Which is utterly ridiculous.


You have two options. You always had two options. Those options are 1) Take it, and 2) Leave it. Those options remain.
 
2013-06-19 11:01:28 PM  
Congrats to Microsoft for doing the right thing, albeit only begrudgingly.

That said, it's telling that the PS4 is STILL a better deal even with the DRM gone.

-$100 cheaper
-Keyboard and mouse support
-Included headset
-Better indie support
-PS+ not required for Netflix and other paid services (that's a real dealbreaker for me. I don't like paying twice for something)
-Better specs
-Much greater likelihood of Japanese titles that the Xbox won't get

Neither console has anything that's impressed me on the exclusives front yet, but I can't imagine MS has anything impressive enough to compensate for that list.
 
2013-06-19 11:05:09 PM  
Adolf Oliver Nipples: 2) Leave it.

People said "we're leaving it", and other people said "hey it's not that bad, it's actually good" and then the first people said "WTF are you crazy?" and the second people said "you just don't like change or can't afford it or blah blah blah" and now Microsoft is saying "ohh shiat, WTF did we do?"
 
2013-06-19 11:06:49 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Someothermonkey: And yes, you are defending blatantly anti-consumer policies; at least take responsibility for your positions. Prior to the reversal, microsoft was forcing one route to gaming; online or nothing. There was no option to game otherwise. And reducing options for consumers is very much, anti-consumer. Unless you believe the less options people have, the better off they are. Which is utterly ridiculous.

You have two options. You always had two options. Those options are 1) Take it, and 2) Leave it. Those options remain.


And now I have more options. Online or offline, or both. And I still have 'take it' or 'leave it.'

I can't understand why you would think more options is a bad thing.
 
2013-06-19 11:07:34 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Absolutely disgusting.  If I go into your house and break something, I would go to jail, if I was poor.  You walked into Microsoft's consumer market and broke their business model.  You imbeciles caused billions of dollars of damage to a corporation.  How is that not a criminal offense?


LOL. In order for something to break, it must first be not broken.
 
2013-06-19 11:11:16 PM  

lordargent: Adolf Oliver Nipples: 2) Leave it.

People said "we're leaving it", and other people said "hey it's not that bad, it's actually good" and then the first people said "WTF are you crazy?" and the second people said "you just don't like change or can't afford it or blah blah blah" and now Microsoft is saying "ohh shiat, WTF did we do?"


This too. Evidently, too many people were saying 'leave it.'

It turns out, microsoft actually wants to sell these consoles and you know, make money. Hard to do that when you're ensuring that anyone without a 1.5mbs connection or better can't use it.
 
2013-06-19 11:17:17 PM  
i.imgur.com
Console game is toy for baby men.
 
2013-06-19 11:18:51 PM  
nytmare: LOL. In order for something to break, it must first be not broken.

Can we sue developers for breach of contract or false advertisement for creating crappy games that in no way reflect demo videos.
 
2013-06-19 11:21:22 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: So, all they have to do is do everything you want with nothing you don't and you'll buy it.


They don't seem like unreasonable requests to me.

If he's representative of a large segment of the market, Microsoft would be stupid not to offer him what he wants.
 
2013-06-19 11:27:16 PM  
None of you understand this issue, this guy gets it.

More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games.
I have seen the number of unique gamer tags vs actual sales numbers and it ain't pretty.
At the end of the day many hardcore dislike what was attempted. You can't do well in that space with many of your core unhappy... Especially when users have a choice. The nature of capitalism encourages competition and Sony played into that.
Brace yourselves. More tacked on multiplayer and DLC are coming.
You're also about to see available microtransactions skyrocket. HATS FOR EVERYONE.
I want *developers* who worked their asses off to see money on every copy of their game that is sold instead of Gamestop. fark me, right?
*Sony* forced Microsoft's hand, not the internet whining.
You're going to see digital versions of your favorite games with added "features" and content to lure you to digital over disc based.
I find it funny how people are saying that I "lost" when I don't have a job or an allegiance now.
What I do have is 20 years of experience making games and seeing how the sausage is made.

-Cliffy B.
 
2013-06-19 11:28:01 PM  
Adolf Oliver Nipples: So, all they have to do is do everything you want with nothing you don't and you'll buy it.

Do most of what I want, with little of what I don't want.

Everyone has their own wants and dislikes. The sooner people understand that, the better they will do in life.

Being able to place yourself in the shoes of someone else and understand their perspective (even if you don't agree with it) is a very powerful negotiation tool.

Media companies will try to take whatever they can, and consumers will try to get the best deal that we can for a given amount of effort.

At the end of the day, we all vote with our dollars, that's the bottom line and everything else is just fluffy foamy bullshiat.
 
2013-06-19 11:28:40 PM  

Strolpol: Congrats to Microsoft for doing the right thing, albeit only begrudgingly.

That said, it's telling that the PS4 is STILL a better deal even with the DRM gone.

-$100 cheaper
-Keyboard and mouse support
-Included headset
-Better indie support
-PS+ not required for Netflix and other paid services (that's a real dealbreaker for me. I don't like paying twice for something)
-Better specs
-Much greater likelihood of Japanese titles that the Xbox won't get

Neither console has anything that's impressed me on the exclusives front yet, but I can't imagine MS has anything impressive enough to compensate for that list.


This.  So far, anyways.  If one of my "must-have" franchises or studios goes exclusive with one or the other, that's the one I'm going to buy, but I'm leaning way more toward PS4 than I am XB1 right now.
 
2013-06-19 11:30:11 PM  
but...but...I thought they said that they couldn't turn it off?

Looks like all that talk of "cloud gaming" was more like smoke being blown up our asses.

Let's see how long this lasts until they "flip the switch" back after they've reeled in enough suckers.
 
2013-06-19 11:30:21 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 11:31:42 PM  
Dammit...preview is there for a reason...let's try that image again...

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 11:38:47 PM  

DerpHerder: Elegy: I'm actually a little bummed that MS backed down. I understand why they did it - Internet hate machine was steamrolling them and all - but with the DRM checking came the ability loan out digital copies of my game library, meaning I could have swapped games with my XBL friends. Now, no DRM, back to shiatty single-use licensing for digital content.

However, I do understand why that trade off doesn't work for soldiers, people with dodgy Internet connections, and the global market, and I do think MS made the right move

FlashHarry: the always-on camera is still spooky though.

DanZero: And yes, still no word on the invasive camera.

snuffy: still there is bills unblinking eye on you.

Yeahhhhh, that ones been debunked.

This is what I've been telling all my friends. Everyone was freaking out and taking the used game market the wrong way. This was a cool idea killed by small minded people. Im sure M$ execution of the market would have been less than it could have been but still being able to digitially loan a game would be cool. At the least I would take loaning games digitally over getting 5$ at gamestop... Thats what they get for trying to reinvent the wheel though considering the majority of the console community aren't big thinkers its not suprising.


My understanding of the system was that you never really "loaned" a game to a friend, you gave it to them. And you could never get it back after that. I may be wrong though.
 
2013-06-19 11:39:10 PM  

Cytokine Storm: None of you understand this issue, this guy gets it.

More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games.
I have seen the number of unique gamer tags vs actual sales numbers and it ain't pretty.
At the end of the day many hardcore dislike what was attempted. You can't do well in that space with many of your core unhappy... Especially when users have a choice. The nature of capitalism encourages competition and Sony played into that.
Brace yourselves. More tacked on multiplayer and DLC are coming.
You're also about to see available microtransactions skyrocket. HATS FOR EVERYONE.
I want *developers* who worked their asses off to see money on every copy of their game that is sold instead of Gamestop. fark me, right?
*Sony* forced Microsoft's hand, not the internet whining.
You're going to see digital versions of your favorite games with added "features" and content to lure you to digital over disc based.
I find it funny how people are saying that I "lost" when I don't have a job or an allegiance now.
What I do have is 20 years of experience making games and seeing how the sausage is made.

-Cliffy B.


Or, we can get developers working harder at making games that are so  good  that we won't want to trade them in at gamestop (or sell them online if you want a decent price). There are tons of games in my library (not literal tons) that I would never part with because I enjoy playing them. I have some games that I couldn't even come close to counting how many hours I have put into them. Why should developers of shiat games that get bought and resold repeatedly get more of a cut than the developers that make games that are so good no one wants to trade them in?
 
2013-06-19 11:41:25 PM  
I thought that Kinect with Forza could allow head tracking so if you look left or right your view tracks that movement and does the same only scaled so you can look over your virtual shoulder in-game while still seeing the screen. That was my understanding of the awesome of Kinect with Forza, that you can still use the steering wheel and all that fun stuff, but it's a hell of a lot easier to look into your turns, and see what's around you. Perhaps I misunderstood since I don't have one.
 
2013-06-19 11:42:28 PM  

Elegy: Sony bricks users consoles with upgraded HDDs, MS reverses on DRM.

[img.fark.net image 294x515]

I need more popcorn.


Microssoft was kind enough to sell people consoles that bricked without an update, free of charge! *coughRRODcough*
 
2013-06-19 11:45:05 PM  

DerpHerder: This was a cool idea killed by small minded people.


I think this puts it best:

TyrantII: If you honestly believe that MS would implement all this anti-consumer, walled garden DRM and then basically allow you to pay 1/10th the price for "family shared" games, I got a bridge to sell you.


Sure, MS could have implemented this in a really cool way that benefited the consumer. If you think that was a likely outcome, you are farking kidding yourself. This would have lead to the consumer getting dicked over even more than we are now, because that's what would have been the most profitable way for this to be implemented.

I never knew there were so many people gullible enough to think Microsoft genuinely wanted to give them cheap, easily shared games. So many people willing to choose the stick right now for the promise of a carrot in the future. Hell, in the case of "cheaper games" it wasn't even the promise of a carrot (MS never said the DRM would make games cheaper), just pure speculation that maybe one day there might be a carrot, possibly.
 
2013-06-19 11:46:36 PM  
Cytokine Storm: None of you understand this issue, this guy gets it.

More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games.
I have seen the number of unique gamer tags vs actual sales numbers and it ain't pretty.
At the end of the day many hardcore dislike what was attempted. You can't do well in that space with many of your core unhappy... Especially when users have a choice. The nature of capitalism encourages competition and Sony played into that.
Brace yourselves. More tacked on multiplayer and DLC are coming.
You're also about to see available microtransactions skyrocket. HATS FOR EVERYONE.
I want *developers* who worked their asses off to see money on every copy of their game that is sold instead of Gamestop. fark me, right?
*Sony* forced Microsoft's hand, not the internet whining.
You're going to see digital versions of your favorite games with added "features" and content to lure you to digital over disc based.
I find it funny how people are saying that I "lost" when I don't have a job or an allegiance now.
What I do have is 20 years of experience making games and seeing how the sausage is made.

-Cliffy B.


i love me some salt and tears
 
2013-06-19 11:50:24 PM  
"after a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again"

If it still requires an internet connection for a new game, albeit a one time connection for each new game, then wouldn't soldiers still be unable to use it?
 
2013-06-19 11:52:55 PM  

Cheater71: "after a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again"

If it still requires an internet connection for a new game, albeit a one time connection for each new game, then wouldn't soldiers still be unable to use it?


I believe the new policy is one time connect with the xbox (not the games), then all games just go in like normal.
 
2013-06-19 11:57:24 PM  
Cytokine Storm: -Cliffy B.

Cliffy B.?

Gears of war 3 sold over 19 million copies and the development costs are only in the tens of millions.

$60 * 19,000,000 - $30,000,000 - whatever else => dude, huge amount of money
 
2013-06-19 11:58:06 PM  
The cloud makes every experience better and more accessible.

imageshack.us
 
2013-06-20 12:00:17 AM  
Is it me, or is this more of a cleaned up rewrite of the crass, ass-monkey statements that Donnie forked out in the notorious interview.

Wait and see.
 
2013-06-20 12:16:03 AM  

Cytokine Storm: None of you understand this issue, this guy gets it.

More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games.
I have seen the number of unique gamer tags vs actual sales numbers and it ain't pretty.
At the end of the day many hardcore dislike what was attempted. You can't do well in that space with many of your core unhappy... Especially when users have a choice. The nature of capitalism encourages competition and Sony played into that.
Brace yourselves. More tacked on multiplayer and DLC are coming.
You're also about to see available microtransactions skyrocket. HATS FOR EVERYONE.
I want *developers* who worked their asses off to see money on every copy of their game that is sold instead of Gamestop. fark me, right?
*Sony* forced Microsoft's hand, not the internet whining.
You're going to see digital versions of your favorite games with added "features" and content to lure you to digital over disc based.
I find it funny how people are saying that I "lost" when I don't have a job or an allegiance now.
What I do have is 20 years of experience making games and seeing how the sausage is made.

-Cliffy B.


Cliffy B is the Rob Liefeld of video games.
 
2013-06-20 12:16:43 AM  

FuryOfFirestorm: Cytokine Storm: None of you understand this issue, this guy gets it.

More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games.
I have seen the number of unique gamer tags vs actual sales numbers and it ain't pretty.
At the end of the day many hardcore dislike what was attempted. You can't do well in that space with many of your core unhappy... Especially when users have a choice. The nature of capitalism encourages competition and Sony played into that.
Brace yourselves. More tacked on multiplayer and DLC are coming.
You're also about to see available microtransactions skyrocket. HATS FOR EVERYONE.
I want *developers* who worked their asses off to see money on every copy of their game that is sold instead of Gamestop. fark me, right?
*Sony* forced Microsoft's hand, not the internet whining.
You're going to see digital versions of your favorite games with added "features" and content to lure you to digital over disc based.
I find it funny how people are saying that I "lost" when I don't have a job or an allegiance now.
What I do have is 20 years of experience making games and seeing how the sausage is made.

-Cliffy B.

Cliffy B is the Rob Liefeld of video games.


It sounds like he's really getting a kick out of some of these replies.
 
2013-06-20 12:20:12 AM  

Cytokine Storm: I want *developers* who worked their asses off to see money on every copy of their game that is sold instead of Gamestop. fark me, right?

-Cliffy B.


Well, Cliff, if you are talking about first sale, then I agree!  Direct-market your games and price them appropriately.  People don't want to pay $70 and not have transferable media in hand.  However, as is seen with Steam, millions of times over, you offer a "digital copy" at a reasonable or downright cheap price and you'll make up for the discount loss in volume of sales.

Now, if you are talking about used sales (and I hope you aren't that stupid), well then, yes, fark you.  <insert auto manufacturer> would like to have a cut of every vehicle sold on the used market.  That's not the way it has, does or ever should work.

And fark Gamestop anyway.  Place is a shiathole!
 
2013-06-20 12:22:23 AM  

justtray: http://www.fark.com/users/justtray">justtray    http://www.fark.com/totalfarksignup" target=_top>http://img.fark.net/images/2003/totalfark.gif" width=54 height=11>
First it's ironic that Sony is now taking the high ground on anti-DRM.

Secondly, Microsoft will cave to public opinion on this. They're stupid, but not stubbornly so.


11 Jun 2013 05:50 PM


Not if their telemetry is telling them the same shiat I see on my friends list.  What are they going to do?  Believe what people say or believe what people do?
 
2013-06-20 12:23:18 AM  

chozo13: Cheater71: "after a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again"

If it still requires an internet connection for a new game, albeit a one time connection for each new game, then wouldn't soldiers still be unable to use it?

I believe the new policy is one time connect with the xbox (not the games), then all games just go in like normal.


I guess as long as the systems get set up before they ship out, everything should be good. Still don't like the kinect though.
 
2013-06-20 12:34:01 AM  
you guys actually believe you had something to do with these results
 
2013-06-20 12:35:27 AM  

Cheater71: chozo13: Cheater71: "after a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again"

If it still requires an internet connection for a new game, albeit a one time connection for each new game, then wouldn't soldiers still be unable to use it?

I believe the new policy is one time connect with the xbox (not the games), then all games just go in like normal.

I guess as long as the systems get set up before they ship out, everything should be good. Still don't like the kinect though.


I never purchased a kinect for my current xbox, and I don't plan to. I am glad that they addressed a lot of the concerns that I had with the system, but I still cannot see myself purchasing the xbox one. I will not reward a company that tried so hard to hose paying customers and finally cave when they realize that gamers are not as stupid as they assumed. They were prepared to take away ownership rights from any gamer that was going to buy their system (and they would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids). I cannot support a company that thinks so little of their user base.

All this really proves is that they were blowing smoke when they were talking about what an amazing experience being always connected will be. We all saw how that worked out for SimCity.
 
2013-06-20 12:40:17 AM  
Silly MS - you don't announce that you're going to reduce functionality for your product BEFORE putting it on sale. That's not good business.

You wait for a bit until everyone's bought one, then you push in a mandatory patch, like Sony does.
 
2013-06-20 12:52:15 AM  

fisker: you guys actually believe you had something to do with these results


No, the people swarming to lay down preorders on the ps4 over the xbox did.  People voted with their wallets and it wasn't looking good for MS.

Now?  Now they have a chance again.  Now its a matter of can they convince you with games to spend $100 more for a less powerful system.  It's an interesting challenge, but one that money could overcome.
 
2013-06-20 01:02:38 AM  
Microsoft's Major Nelson said in an interview recently that Sony's PS4 console isn't going to make them change anything about their Xbox One system.

The PS4 pretty much beat out the Xbox One in positive press this week with it's lack of used game DRM, lack of 24-hour check-ins, and price tag. When asked if these announcements by Sony will influence Microsoft and make them change what they're doing with Xbox One he had this to say:

"I don't think,... I mean we're really not going to change anything we've done with Xbox One. We're very happy,... did you see the games on stage during our briefing? Did you see the exclusives? I mean we're really really proud of the system and the games that are coming out. When you look at games like TitanFall,... have you gone through Titanfall yet? Enough said. Conversation over. We're really happy with what we showed on stage as well as what we're showing here in the booth so I think it is uh,... it's safe to say that we're confident where we're going. We're also confident that gamers are going to love our vision of the future and what we're going to offer for gaming"

Nelson seems a bit on the defensive here and I feel sympathy for him. I've always liked him personally and his job just got a lot harder with all the controversial policies of the Xbox One.

Of course, even if Microsoft planned to change something about the Xbox One in response to Sony's PS4 they wouldn't make that decision so quickly and wouldn't admit it was Sony that influenced it. Still, they seem very proud of everything they're doing with the Xbox One and hopefully when the system releases they tweak a few of their policies for the better.


Major Nelson on June 15th

Less than a month since the reveal and they back peddle almost entirely. It's almost surreal.
 
2013-06-20 01:16:45 AM  

Thisbymaster: Kill the kinect and chop off 150 dollars, make netflix and other video/audio services function without your shiatty xbox live subscription.  And get Kingdom Heart 3, then I will buy you.


1 out 4,  KH3 is coming to XB1.
 
2013-06-20 01:38:34 AM  
I think a number of the commenters on the verge have good points as to why this "about face" sucks.

"Roku: Further proof that Twitter and Reddit are destroying the world. We just saw a beautiful digital download future where finished games could be resold/given to friends and entire game libraries could be shared across the country sacrificed at the alter of physical media. Can't even understand why anyone would buy digital downloads now that they have no ability to be shared or resold like disc copies. And even people buying discs lose because now they have to swap discs every time they want to play a game.
Everyone except people without internet access lost today. And even they will eventually realize they lost when they realize all new AAA games are being built as persistent online games.
We've all just gone backwards to a 1980's business model."

"Discs were not worthless under their policy, they were being treated as equal to digital downloads. I was still going to buy most of my games on discs so that I would have the flexibility to share/resell the game via online or in person. You still had the benefit of giving someone a physical gift as well as the ability to trade in the game at Gamestop. Now digital downloads are completely worthless. There is literally no sense in buying a copy of a game online when you can't share it or resell it. All the progress that was being made in digital distribution has been lost now."


The dude has a point. Why would you buy a digital copy on the next generation console, since you can't swap or sell the game? If it were up to the tech whiners, we'll be stuck with disk swapping and disk based DRM & keys for the next couple decades.

I wish they would have gone with a less backward approach, and offer "offline" versions of physical games for people to play while away from the internet (military, cabins, etc). At least in my situation, and most folks these days, broadband isn't that hard to find. shiat, I have 100Mbps fiber at work, 35 Mbps DSL or cable at home, Clearwire's WiMax gives me 25 Mbps even out on my boat,  and even my cell phone has a ping of 82 and download speeds between 9 and 18 Mbps - and I live out in the middle of farm fields. Even if you're way out in the middle of nowhere, you can get decent internet via satellite - like my parents do out in the mountains.

If you say you can't get any internet above dial-up, and you live in the lower 48 states, you're not even trying - or a poor ass sucker who can't afford a $500 console in the first place.
 
2013-06-20 01:38:55 AM  
Q: Does Xbox One require an "always on" Internet connection?
A: No, it does not have to be always connected, but Xbox One does require a connection to the Internet.


Still fail.

Q: Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games?
A: We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We'll have more details to share later.


"...but it will not be in the way you are used to doing it; i.e., simply doing it. We'll have a proprietary system for doing so. Suck it.

Q: Why require Kinect with every Xbox One?
A: The all new Kinect is now an essential and integrated part of the platform.


"Because we're assholes."

/fail
//Fail
///FAIL
 
2013-06-20 01:44:59 AM  

MrSteve007: I think a number of the commenters on the verge have good points as to why this "about face" sucks.


They and you assumed that MS would have implemented this in a way that didn't utterly screw over the consumer.

I mean, it's nice that you're optimistic, but do you really thing freakin' Microsoft could be trusted with the power to decide how and if you could trade, lend or resell games?
 
2013-06-20 01:50:11 AM  
Cliffy B is a twatbag.

/you're cliffy b, thats what you wanted and thats what you'll aways be
 
2013-06-20 01:51:46 AM  
MrSteve007: I wish they would have gone with a less backward approach, and offer "offline" versions of physical games for people to play while away from the internet (military, cabins, etc). At least in my situation, and most folks these days, broadband isn't that hard to find.

From previous threads, here's my take on how it should have been IMHO

1) Each disk has a unique key.
2) If you physically have the disk present, you can play whenever you want (no check in required).
3) You can install the disk to the drive (keeps track of the key, tied to your console and gamertag).
4) You can play the game without the disk present (on any console, with your gamertag), but it requires a check in.
5) If that disk gets used in another console, then the copy you have on disk is invalidated (and your next check in fails ... but insert the disk to validate it again).

So

If you don't want it to phone home, disable it, and insert the discs in order to play games..
If you don't care about it phoning home, you can install all of your games, and play any of them from the HD without the disk.
If you go to a friends house, take the disc (no phone home).
If you go to a friends house, take your gamertag (phone home).

//etc etc devil in the details
 
2013-06-20 01:53:58 AM  

Gunther: MrSteve007: I think a number of the commenters on the verge have good points as to why this "about face" sucks.

They and you assumed that MS would have implemented this in a way that didn't utterly screw over the consumer.

I mean, it's nice that you're optimistic, but do you really thing freakin' Microsoft could be trusted with the power to decide how and if you could trade, lend or resell games?


Microsoft has a pretty good record with digital content and distribution. I've had a Zune music pass for about 7 years now. $14 a month for unlimited music downloads to 5 mobile devices, 5 workstations, any Xbox I'm signed into, unlimited music videos, and live streaming from any web browser I sign in from. Oh, and 10 high quality DRM free mp3 tracks each month. I still have an account, even though it's now called Xbox Music. It's always been light years ahead of any other music service out there. The only major DRM requirement is that my subscription music needs to "check in" once every 30 days or so on my offline, portable devices.

I could easily foresee them offering something similar with digital game distribution/rental for a set fee like $25 a month. They already have the experience in-house and their own game studios to sign on first.
 
2013-06-20 01:57:37 AM  

lordargent: MrSteve007: I wish they would have gone with a less backward approach, and offer "offline" versions of physical games for people to play while away from the internet (military, cabins, etc). At least in my situation, and most folks these days, broadband isn't that hard to find.

From previous threads, here's my take on how it should have been IMHO

1) Each disk has a unique key.
2) If you physically have the disk present, you can play whenever you want (no check in required).
3) You can install the disk to the drive (keeps track of the key, tied to your console and gamertag).
4) You can play the game without the disk present (on any console, with your gamertag), but it requires a check in.
5) If that disk gets used in another console, then the copy you have on disk is invalidated (and your next check in fails ... but insert the disk to validate it again).

So

If you don't want it to phone home, disable it, and insert the discs in order to play games..
If you don't care about it phoning home, you can install all of your games, and play any of them from the HD without the disk.
If you go to a friends house, take the disc (no phone home).
If you go to a friends house, take your gamertag (phone home).

//etc etc devil in the details


I have a feeling that's how they're going to adapt the system in the coming years. Some will complain that it's too complicated, but at least it would offer diskless play from physically installed media.
 
2013-06-20 01:59:06 AM  

Gunther: MrSteve007: I think a number of the commenters on the verge have good points as to why this "about face" sucks.

They and you assumed that MS would have implemented this in a way that didn't utterly screw over the consumer.

I mean, it's nice that you're optimistic, but do you really thing freakin' Microsoft could be trusted with the power to decide how and if you could trade, lend or resell games?


This is whats so amazing to me. All this time, in all these game threads, i thought the shills were in full force. Turns out it was just a bunch of people who actually wanted restrictive drm built into their consoles. Strange...
 
2013-06-20 02:14:06 AM  
Are they still going to let EA and others gut users who buy older/used games by requiring an extra fee to unlock the whole game?

I think I'm skipping both consoles for pretty much that reason.  Not that I play EA games, or buy many used games.  Still just feels skeevy to profit more than once per disk and for MS to turn their head the other way when it happens(or do it themselves for their own games).

Also, Kinnect.  I'm not paranoid, but I don't want to have it staring at me, or to have to talk to it to make my xbox function.

The controllers got all wonky as well.

Are we going to get better security, IE no cheating on games like CoD by modding the gamerprofile?

Meh, if I break down and get one, it'll be in a year or more anyhow and will know most of this by then.
 
2013-06-20 02:14:28 AM  
Well, now that the sheeple will buy that piece of crap, they will reintroduce those features in 6 months to a year.
 
2013-06-20 02:23:06 AM  
Cloud cloud cloud. Cloud the cloud?

/C
/L
/O
/U
/D
 
2013-06-20 02:35:27 AM  
Keep your goddamn money away from these people. They're the corporate version of a nigerian prince.

I wish I was joking.
 
2013-06-20 02:51:13 AM  

ThatDarkFellow: Cliffy B is a twatbag.

/you're cliffy b, thats what you wanted and thats what you'll aways be


I'm not surprised that Rob Liefeld Cliffy B is shilling for XB1. If no one buys the console, then who's going to buy Gears Of War 4?
 
2013-06-20 02:51:36 AM  

ThatDarkFellow: Cliffy B is a twatbag.

/you're cliffy b, thats what you wanted and thats what you'll aways be


I don't know, he makes a good point. Why should people making five figures be allowed to actualize their investments when it results in less money being hoarded by people making six or seven figures?
 
2013-06-20 02:59:59 AM  

FlashHarry: the always-on camera is still spooky though.


It might be... if you couldn't turn it off. Interesting thing is, this has been addressed already.

MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?


I'm a little annoyed about it, but "mad" is too strong a word to describe how I feel about it. Really, I just hate changing disks. I find it annoying as hell. I don't really care what platform it is, I just hate having to insert a disk to prove I own it. For me, having to connect to the internet for the system to verify with microsoft's servers that I own the games installed on my system is not too much to ask. If it means I don't have to keep a stack of disks next to my console to play all my games, FANTASTIC!

Now, I'll have to buy my games digitally and download them instead of being able to buy the install disk from the store. For small games, downloading isn't an issue at all. For REALLY BIG games, the download times can be kind of annoying. I would have liked to have the option of buying the install disks at the store and then putting them away in the closet, saving me a lot of download time, and playing my game as often as I like without changing disks (how it would have been before the whiners got Microsoft to change their policy). Now, I'll just have to buy them all digitally and download them so I can avoid having to change disks to play them. 

So... mad? No... annoyed, a little.

omeganuepsilon: I'm not paranoid, but I don't want to have it staring at me, or to have to talk to it to make my xbox function.


You doesn't have to stare at you and you don't have to talk to it. See my reply to FlashHarry.
 
2013-06-20 03:13:21 AM  

JohnnyC: FlashHarry: the always-on camera is still spooky though.

It might be... if you couldn't turn it off. Interesting thing is, this has been addressed already.



Nobody wants to "pause" the camera, they want to disconnect it and only use it when/if they feel like it. Lets us disconnect it, then we'll talk.
 
2013-06-20 03:26:51 AM  

JohnnyC: I just hate changing disks


So buy your games digitally.

I buy all my PC games on Steam/GoG/GMG, and I'd buy all my console games that way if it wasn't almost always cheaper to buy them in a store for some insane reason.

Seriously Microsoft/Sony, get your act together with that shiat. There is no reason for a retail copy of a game (that requires making, packaging and shipping a physical object to a store) to always be at least ten bucks cheaper than a digital copy bought directly from an online store.
 
2013-06-20 03:29:43 AM  
So to sum up...

New DRM bad! Change it back! Microsoft sucks!

*Microsoft* "Ok fine"

Now... OH MY GOD WHO THE HELL DO THEY THINK THEY ARE?

You people are worse than teenage girls...
/at least you can roophie a teenage girl and get somewhere.
//does not endorse roophies on young girls
 
2013-06-20 03:36:50 AM  
I'll reserve judgment until the consoles are actually on sale, but with all the crap going on, I'll stick with indie games and steam sales.  Hell, Armikrog's even DRM-free.

img.fark.net
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-20 03:54:54 AM  
It doesn't look to me like they're really changing anything.
 
2013-06-20 04:06:28 AM  

Gunther: So buy your games digitally.


Yeah, I plan on it (and mentioned as much in my previous posts)... I'm just annoyed that I'll have to buy them digitally if I want to avoid disk swapping.

Gunther: if it wasn't almost always cheaper to buy them in a store for some insane reason


I can only assume that is because they're sold at a discount to stores who then mark them up to retail price initially and then drop the price later to move them off the shelves without taking a loss on the sale of the game. Digital copies are theoretically infinite. The online store can produce as many copies as needed on demand and isn't working off a pre-purchase/markup scenario where they are trying to recoup initial investment. Therefore they are less driven to drop the price on the game as a retail store is when they end up with a surplus. At least... that's my guess.
 
2013-06-20 04:12:17 AM  

JohnnyC: I can only assume that is because they're sold at a discount to stores who then mark them up to retail price initially and then drop the price later to move them off the shelves without taking a loss on the sale of the game.


Probably, but why are PC games always cheaper online? I can't remember the last time I bought a PC game in a retail store, because I'm always able to find them at least 10 bucks cheaper online, and usually 20 bucks cheaper.
 
2013-06-20 04:27:07 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: ajgeek: That was slower than I anticipated. I thought they'd reverse a couple weeks ago.

Q:    Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games?
A:    We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We'll have more details to share later.

This particular FAQ is hilarious. "Designing" indeed.

Yes, and this occurs soon after they tell everyone to go fark themselves with their old 360 games, which will be obsolete.  What sort of used game market is there going to be for the "One" for the first several months????

\can't even find a Wii U used game
\\Wii U!


Wii U seriously? We're talking about video game consoles here.
 
2013-06-20 04:39:32 AM  
What has changed? I'm seeing no 180 here at all. It was never "always on" and still requires the internet. The bit where it says you can still play if you lose your connection I assume means if you lose it for less than 24 hours as per before.

Kinnect is still the same. There is some clarification about what the cloud does. They release in some markets. Some TV guff is clarified. They just put everything in a bulleted list and everyone is happy again?

img69.imageshack.us
 
2013-06-20 04:47:30 AM  
Thank the Maker that the BBC can report better on the XBox 180 than XBox themselves. Seriously, that list cleared nothing up at all.
 
2013-06-20 04:59:03 AM  

Cytokine Storm: None of you understand this issue, this guy gets it.

More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games.
I have seen the number of unique gamer tags vs actual sales numbers and it ain't pretty.
At the end of the day many hardcore dislike what was attempted. You can't do well in that space with many of your core unhappy... Especially when users have a choice. The nature of capitalism encourages competition and Sony played into that.
Brace yourselves. More tacked on multiplayer and DLC are coming.
You're also about to see available microtransactions skyrocket. HATS FOR EVERYONE.
I want *developers* who worked their asses off to see money on every copy of their game that is sold instead of Gamestop. fark me, right?
*Sony* forced Microsoft's hand, not the internet whining.
You're going to see digital versions of your favorite games with added "features" and content to lure you to digital over disc based.
I find it funny how people are saying that I "lost" when I don't have a job or an allegiance now.
What I do have is 20 years of experience making games and seeing how the sausage is made.

-Cliffy B.


No, he really doesn't. Reselling books has not destroyed the publishing industry. Home taping never killed music, and people mostly download best-selling movies and cds.

If you can't make a profit on your product, you're spending too much, promoting too little, or your product sucks. People reselling your product is not their fault, it's yours.

This is my favorite game of the last few years:
vglounge.com

Look expensive? Budget in the millions? Motion capture? Hollywood actors? No way. But it's fun as hell.
 
2013-06-20 05:04:18 AM  
You guys realise this is a tried and tested marketing strategy and everything, so far, is going according to plan right?

Figured I should point that out as I know a lot of you aren't all that bright and might think this is Microsoft doing something 'good' and 'responding to criticism'.

It isn't.  They've put some cheese on the shiat sandwich.
 
2013-06-20 05:16:26 AM  
Cytokine Storm:

The ravings of the CliffyB.  Always good when you need a laugh eh?

Yeah so can we get an over/under on which group he's going to try and knife in the back first whilst spouting gibberish?

The man should never be allowed to touch anything other than a XB360 until the day he retires after he declared it the MechaJesus of gaming.  Because hey, Microsoft couldn't of been telling the truth when they said it'd be 10 years until the next console came out and it's not like technology improves right?

Having said that given the mans propensity for knifing gaming systems in the back (first he did PC, then he did 360) I wonder which of the two new consoles will be the first?  It's a given he's going to TRY and shaft PC, as he's under the impression we care about someone who's last actual WORKING game on that platform was Jazz Jackrabbit 2 or Unreal.
 
2013-06-20 05:23:11 AM  
As to used game sales.

I don't see Toyota biatching about second hand car sales.  Any publisher who thinks they deserve a second bite of that apple... is not a developer I do business with.

So you get nothing.
 
2013-06-20 05:35:24 AM  

Vaneshi: You guys realise this is a tried and tested marketing strategy and everything, so far, is going according to plan right?

Figured I should point that out as I know a lot of you aren't all that bright and might think this is Microsoft doing something 'good' and 'responding to criticism'.

It isn't.  They've put some cheese on the shiat sandwich.


Right, and Coke released New Coke to drive up Coke Classic sales.

They noticed their pre-order numbers were not what they wanted and backpedaled. Simple as that.
 
2013-06-20 06:41:28 AM  

King Keepo: What has changed? I'm seeing no 180 here at all. It was never "always on" and still requires the internet. The bit where it says you can still play if you lose your connection I assume means if you lose it for less than 24 hours as per before.

Kinnect is still the same. There is some clarification about what the cloud does. They release in some markets. Some TV guff is clarified. They just put everything in a bulleted list and everyone is happy again?

[img69.imageshack.us image 400x528]


The 24 hour phone home was a rather big deal because, in the end, Microsoft never justified why it was needed.
We've got successful devices that require internet connections but don't lock up when disconnected for extended periods.

Fun story:  When World of warcraft designers wanted to prevent players from burning through the content too quickly, they decided to come up with a rest system.  Play too long and they penalize your XP take.
Players hated it.
So the designers withdrew it but came up with a new system that, instead, gave you an XP bonus for the first few hours of play before tapering off.
Players loved it.

Moral of the story: Players are idiots that can be suckered by a good sales pitch.
Microsoft will probably rethink this, wheel it out as a "Premier customer service", and people will be stumbling over themselves for digital licenses.

/Release digital games a week early, have sales, free DLC, automatic downloads, demos on all titles, etc...  It wouldn't be hard.
/The ten bucks you get back from gamestop isn't as tempting as getting more game in your game machine.
 
2013-06-20 06:58:51 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

FREE on GOG.COM as part of their DRM FREE SUMMER SALE.

This is the last day for it however.

/Support DRM free gaming!
 
2013-06-20 07:09:53 AM  

space1999: TheOmni: It's not no DRM. It's just back to the shiatty DRM we have had before instead of a new and differently shiatty DRM.

What DRM?  You buy a game disc, you can play the game from the disc.  Any Xbox with the disc in it can play the game.  That's not DRM.  Game consoles have operated that way for 35 years.


You are describing a DRM system. And yes, it is an old DRM system, but that doesn't stop it being a DRM system.
 
2013-06-20 07:25:19 AM  

CrowdSceneExtra: MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?

I'm annoyed at this change.  I couldn't care less about used games because I don't sell my games and it's been years since I bought one.  What I was looking forward to most was disc-less gaming.  Just install the game and then you can switch between TV, apps, or any game seamlessly.  Now you'll need to swap discs to switch between games.  No more playing one game, getting an invite to another game and switching without digging around on your shelves to find the new disc.

I can still get a similar experience buying the full games off of XBL, but my bandwidth caps suck so I'll be paying a lot of overage fees if I want to enjoy disc-less gaming and if I delete something from the HDD I'll need to re-download it rather than reinstalling it from a disc.  It's stupid that the same data needs to be treated differently just because one set of data was downloaded and the other set was burned to a CD and shipped.  It's not a popular opinion, but I would rather that MS did away with used games as a means of disabling the 24 hour check-in rather than leaving used games intact and requiring a disc check before playing.


If this is really is changing like you say, then it has nothing to do with the public/developers pressuring Microsoft into reversing their policies.   Microsoft can still implement this feature if they want.   Absolutely nothing is stopping them but their own self-imposed policies.   They could allow the best of both worlds...
 
2013-06-20 07:34:18 AM  

Vaneshi: As to used game sales.

I don't see Toyota biatching about second hand car sales.  Any publisher who thinks they deserve a second bite of that apple... is not a developer I do business with.

So you get nothing.


Doesn't Toyota get money from used car sales when people sell/trade their car back into a dealership?
 
2013-06-20 07:34:20 AM  

hardinparamedic: FlashHarry: behold the power of social media.

the always-on camera is still spooky though.

Steve Balmer is watching you masturbate.


You want it the other way around?
 
2013-06-20 07:36:32 AM  

LoR75: So pissed they got rid of the shared games library and the ability to share my games with 10 "family" members.


As others mentioned, publishers revolted when Sony a while let you share your downloads with 5 consoles.
http://www.destructoid.com/playstation-game-downloads-to-be-limited- to -two-consoles-215189.phtml

Its possible publishers weren't happy with the sharing part but were willing to go along with it if it meant the removal of used games.
 
2013-06-20 07:39:58 AM  

way south: The 24 hour phone home was a rather big deal because, in the end, Microsoft never justified why it was needed.
We've got successful devices that require internet connections but don't lock up when disconnected for extended periods.


They did "justify" it.  The justification was just stupid.

Because they allowed you to "loan" the digital copy of your games out, they needed to check periodically to make sure the game was still loaned out or if it was returned.  The digital distribution and sharing in the manner they suggested only works when they verify the current location of the digital license.  That is something they can't do while the system is offline.

For example, say you have four friends and you buy a copy of a game.  If this was an XBO game under the old system you could "loan" a digital copy of the game to your friends.  They would then download that game from the cloud.  The digital license for that game would be transferred to your friend for as long as they feel like playing the game or until you revoked that loan.  In this way you don't have to go over to your friends house and loan them a copy of the game, they can play it whenever you are not playing it.

This works best for friends who do not live near each other.  Say you lived in Miami and your friend was in Seattle.  Normally you couldn't "loan" your game to that friend (not easily at least), but with the old XBO digital distribution cloud you could.

Alternately if you and that friend were in the same "Family" group, both you and your friend could play your copy of the game at the same time, even if they were in Seattle and you were in Miami.  The "family sharing" feature allowed for relaxed sharing rules between a small group of people.  Only one member of your "Family" needed to purchase a game for everyone in the Family to play.  Up to 10 people could be listed as Family.  This was different from the loaning system in that the digital license is shared vs. being loaned out to another person.

That system is great in theory, however in order to prevent abuse you would constantly need to know where and when the licenses were being used.  Otherwise one person could buy a game and share it with an infinite amount of offline friends forever while retaining an online copy for themselves.  The problem with that is you would never own your game just the digital license which you can lend out to friends or give away ONCE and only once.  The one time give away restriction was once again because of the ease of distributing a cloud shared copy across country.   It could particularly be abused on single player offline games.

Using the Playstation only game "Last of Us" as an example. That game only has 15~20 hours of game play (I believe a few people beat it in ~10 hours).  One person could purchase the game, beat it the day of purchase and then "give" it to a friend day 2.  That friend could play the game, beat it and "give" it to another friend day 3.  That second friend could then "Give" the game to another person and it keeps going from there.  While this can be done with a physical copy of the game, the logistics of the entire event would make it much more complicated than cloud shared software, which again, can go from Seattle to Miami and back in less than a second.  Also with the digital copy, if there wasn't some sort of check in system, even though the game was "given away" you could keep a copy and play it yourself just by keeping the XBO offline.

Even with the used game market, most people aren't going to sell a game back to GameStop the same day that they purchased it.

This is a bit different from loaning because the game doesn't have to return back to the original owner before being distributed to the next person, but honestly a loaning system could be abused as much as a giving system except for the 30 day requirement that they placed on game loaning

So yes, it makes sense that their old system required check ins to avoid abuse, but I think they took it a step too far.  Basically I can see those being the rules for the digital copies of the games, but why make that the rule for the physical copies as well?

That's the part that made no sense to me.  While a digital copy can be easily abused without DRM (i.e. Steam and other digital distributions), the same can't be said of the physical medium.  My guess is that because each physical disc included a bundled digital license, it made it impossible to separate the two systems without completely disabling the sharing feature.

The simple solution to that would, in my opinion, be to not automatically grant a digital license with the physical copy of the disc.  Make so that physical copies are mostly collectors editions with a few copies for people with little to no internet and have the digital copies be a complete separate entity.  That way collectors can still collect the games and people who have bad internet connections could also play the games.
 
2013-06-20 07:50:09 AM  
I'm just going to use my PC to game. Sure, I will miss out on some console exclusive 3rd person action/adventure games which are essentially just linear 12 hour movies with little re-playability and no challenge.
 
2013-06-20 07:52:10 AM  

change1211: Vaneshi: As to used game sales.

I don't see Toyota biatching about second hand car sales.  Any publisher who thinks they deserve a second bite of that apple... is not a developer I do business with.

So you get nothing.

Doesn't Toyota get money from used car sales when people sell/trade their car back into a dealership?


Umm, no. They probably lose money when the dealership does any recall repairs the previous owner hadn't bothered with.
 
2013-06-20 08:01:45 AM  

MrSteve007: The dude has a point. Why would you buy a digital copy on the next generation console, since you can't swap or sell the game? If it were up to the tech whiners, we'll be stuck with disk swapping and disk based DRM & keys for the next couple decades.

I wish they would have gone with a less backward approach, and offer "offline" versions of physical games for people to play while away from the internet (military, cabins, etc). At least in my situation, and most folks these days, broadband isn't that hard to find. shiat, I have 100Mbps fiber at work, 35 Mbps DSL or cable at home, Clearwire's WiMax gives me 25 Mbps even out on my boat(crappy service and horrible ping times), and even my cell phone has a ping of 82 and download speeds between 9 and 18 Mbps - and I live out in the middle of farm fields.(Very hard to believe, and certianly not normal) Even if you're way out in the middle of nowhere, you can get decent internet via satellite - like my parents do out in the mountains.(Satellite Internet is notoriously bad for online gaming, don't even try unless you like getting shot in the face)

If you say you can't get any internet above dial-up, and you live in the lower 48 states, you're not even trying - or a poor ass sucker who can't afford a $500 console in the first place.

 
2013-06-20 08:05:42 AM  

MindStalker: change1211: Vaneshi: As to used game sales.

I don't see Toyota biatching about second hand car sales.  Any publisher who thinks they deserve a second bite of that apple... is not a developer I do business with.

So you get nothing.

Doesn't Toyota get money from used car sales when people sell/trade their car back into a dealership?

Umm, no. They probably lose money when the dealership does any recall repairs the previous owner hadn't bothered with.


Somewhat this.

Dealerships are independent businesses that have a relationship with Toyota (the manufacturer) so No. Toyota proper doesn't get squat.

and even if they did make some money when someone brought a car back to the dealership, that option doesn't prevent John Q. Public from selling his car on his own to anyone he wishes at any time he wants. Toyota doesn't get a cut of that money.

Toyota also doesn't cut out every other independent used lot owner by partnering up with a single used dealer and somehow disabling your vehicle from being sold else where. For all scenarios, Toyota proper stops giving a damn once the car is loaded on to the truck/train to the dealer since the Dealer pays Toyota upfront for the car and then its up to the dealership to recoup their costs/make a profit.
 
2013-06-20 08:36:00 AM  

Maul555: Satellite Internet is notoriously bad for online gaming, don't even try unless you like getting shot in the face)


Yep, plus it is capped and they throttle the speed if you reach the limit.  Looking at Dish, it is 10mbps with a 10GB cap for $50, and for $70 you get the same speed but a 15GB limit (low tier is $40 for 5mbps and a 5GB limit).

Aslo, forget about trying to use it during bad weather.
 
2013-06-20 08:41:14 AM  

Burr: Maul555: Satellite Internet is notoriously bad for online gaming, don't even try unless you like getting shot in the face)

Yep, plus it is capped and they throttle the speed if you reach the limit.  Looking at Dish, it is 10mbps with a 10GB cap for $50, and for $70 you get the same speed but a 15GB limit (low tier is $40 for 5mbps and a 5GB limit).

Aslo, forget about trying to use it during bad weather.


Additionally, I am currently using a 3G mobile broadband connection for my current internet (the two year contract is almost up so I am shopping around for something new).  It has a 5GB limit and about 6mbps according to speed test.  I am just right on the edge of the tower, my mifi has to be on the east side of the house in a window to work, and even then some days it has "fits" but at the time it was better then dial up and satellite.

If I were to walk out my door with the mifi and go ten feet west of my house, I lose service completely.
 
2013-06-20 08:51:27 AM  
Too late MS.  Friends and family are switching to PS4 so that is where my money is going.  XB1 has some nice exclusives, but so does PS4.
Saw someone say "a day late and a dollar short" I would say, "A day late and $100 short."

/I will be sad to miss TitanFall until it makes it to the PS4.
 
2013-06-20 08:53:37 AM  

BAMFinator: Too late MS.  Friends and family are switching to PS4 so that is where my money is going.  XB1 has some nice exclusives, but so does PS4.
Saw someone say "a day late and a dollar short" I would say, "A day late and $100 short."

/I will be sad to miss TitanFall until it makes it to the PS4.


IIRC, it's coming to PC as well, so all hope is not lost.
 
2013-06-20 08:56:58 AM  
I am a little disappointed by this news.  I was looking forward to being able to share my games with 'circle of 10' so to say.  I have a huge amount of xbox 360 games that I don't regularly play.  Hell I'm lucky if i have the time to game 10 hours a week anymore.  It would be nice for my friends who don't live close by, to be able to get use out of that product that is just sitting on my shelf.  The online requirements and the DRM / used game policies, didn't really affect me negatively in the first place.

However that's pretty much the only direct draw back.  I was hoping that these policies would appease the publishers and developers enough to be able to cut out some of the DLC and ridiculous prices of video games, which is pure skepticism of course,  but now we won't be able to see how it pans out so I guess we're back to the same ol, same ol.  I really liked their ideas and thought digital sales is where the industry needs to go, but apparently consumers aren't quite ready for it.  They do still have the infrastructure all coded and designed tho, so I guess they could implement it at some point in the future.

It would be cool if they had some sort of opt in policy where you could agree to the online check ins and DRM to get access to the friends and family perks, but that would probably make things extremely complicated by splitting the user base.
 
2013-06-20 08:58:29 AM  

Maul555: CrowdSceneExtra: MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?

I'm annoyed at this change.  I couldn't care less about used games because I don't sell my games and it's been years since I bought one.  What I was looking forward to most was disc-less gaming.  Just install the game and then you can switch between TV, apps, or any game seamlessly.  Now you'll need to swap discs to switch between games.  No more playing one game, getting an invite to another game and switching without digging around on your shelves to find the new disc.

I can still get a similar experience buying the full games off of XBL, but my bandwidth caps suck so I'll be paying a lot of overage fees if I want to enjoy disc-less gaming and if I delete something from the HDD I'll need to re-download it rather than reinstalling it from a disc.  It's stupid that the same data needs to be treated differently just because one set of data was downloaded and the other set was burned to a CD and shipped.  It's not a popular opinion, but I would rather that MS did away with used games as a means of disabling the 24 hour check-in rather than leaving used games intact and requiring a disc check before playing.

If this is really is changing like you say, then it has nothing to do with the public/developers pressuring Microsoft into reversing their policies.   Microsoft can still implement this feature if they want.   Absolutely nothing is stopping them but their own self-imposed policies.   They could allow the best of both worlds...


My thoughts exactly. What's keeping MS from doing a full game install from disc? Personaly I rather have the option of playing from disc or doing a full install. I have built up a pretty huge library of games, and I rather not fill the HDD up. Just because they allow used games doesn't mean that you can't do a full install. They could still implement 'sharing' as long as you do a check every day. If you're not sharing, then you don't need to do a system check. And sharing or gifting seems be nothing other than used game sales that NOONE gets any money from. Not you, not Gamestop. The publishers still arn't getting paid if you transfer a license to a friend. So if one person buys a game and then the next 9 friends down the line re-gift it, that 9/10th of the people not paying for a game.

And just because some people don't buy used, doesn't mean everyone doesn't.  I keep most of my games because I like them. I have games I haven't played in years, but might go back to one day. It's the 'meh' ones I sell to get some money back. I mostly buy new. But I buy used for two reasons. 1. the game wasn't that great but is worth a playthrough for 20 bucks. 2. It's a game I never got around to playing and is not sold new anymore (Okami for example) There are a lot of old good games that you can only find used.  Publishers can't maintain new copies of every game. So if you never got the chance to play Condemned, the only way you're gonna get it is used.

There is no reason MS can't give you the option. You want to install a disc and have to connect to live to be allowed to play it? Fine. I would also like to be able to pop a disc in and play it when my shiatty power grid or DSL service goes down.  You want to 'loan' a game to a friend? The he has to connect once a day to keep playing the game, until you connect to MS and revoke the loan. It's not that hard to do, and would make everyone happy, I think.
 
2013-06-20 09:01:41 AM  

Maul555: CrowdSceneExtra: MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?

I'm annoyed at this change.  I couldn't care less about used games because I don't sell my games and it's been years since I bought one.  What I was looking forward to most was disc-less gaming.  Just install the game and then you can switch between TV, apps, or any game seamlessly.  Now you'll need to swap discs to switch between games.  No more playing one game, getting an invite to another game and switching without digging around on your shelves to find the new disc.

I can still get a similar experience buying the full games off of XBL, but my bandwidth caps suck so I'll be paying a lot of overage fees if I want to enjoy disc-less gaming and if I delete something from the HDD I'll need to re-download it rather than reinstalling it from a disc.  It's stupid that the same data needs to be treated differently just because one set of data was downloaded and the other set was burned to a CD and shipped.  It's not a popular opinion, but I would rather that MS did away with used games as a means of disabling the 24 hour check-in rather than leaving used games intact and requiring a disc check before playing.

If this is really is changing like you say, then it has nothing to do with the public/developers pressuring Microsoft into reversing their policies.   Microsoft can still implement this feature if they want.   Absolutely nothing is stopping them but their own self-imposed policies.   They could allow the best of both worlds...



Read the latest update.  If you buy a disc-based game now, the disc needs to be in the tray.  With the previous system, the disc was just an install media and all license management was handled digitally by the check-in.  This was to allow people to trade-in a disc based game.  The retailers needed a way to revoke the license from the original owner so that the next buyer had a valid license.  Otherwise, people could have installed games onto their Xbox and traded in the disc, but with no way to revoke the digital license the original purchaser could have played indefinitely.  The old system, if the check-in was removed, was ripe for abuse.

I can think of no way that a system can support 1) disconnected play, 2) disc-less running, and 3) reselling all at the same time.  The original Xbox system thought disc-less running and reselling were the greatest features, but apparently the internet thinks disconnected play and reselling are the best features.  I personally would have gone with the PC route of disconnected play and disc-less running (aka the Steam approach).
 
2013-06-20 09:05:11 AM  

FuryOfFirestorm: BAMFinator: Too late MS.  Friends and family are switching to PS4 so that is where my money is going.  XB1 has some nice exclusives, but so does PS4.
Saw someone say "a day late and a dollar short" I would say, "A day late and $100 short."

/I will be sad to miss TitanFall until it makes it to the PS4.

IIRC, it's coming to PC as well, so all hope is not lost.


That is true. Steam will help out a lot there.
That was really the only game I wanted on xb1
 
2013-06-20 09:15:26 AM  

Cytokine Storm: None of you understand this issue, this guy gets it.

More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games.
I have seen the number of unique gamer tags vs actual sales numbers and it ain't pretty.
At the end of the day many hardcore dislike what was attempted. You can't do well in that space with many of your core unhappy... Especially when users have a choice. The nature of capitalism encourages competition and Sony played into that.
Brace yourselves. More tacked on multiplayer and DLC are coming.
You're also about to see available microtransactions skyrocket. HATS FOR EVERYONE.
I want *developers* who worked their asses off to see money on every copy of their game that is sold instead of Gamestop. fark me, right?
*Sony* forced Microsoft's hand, not the internet whining.
You're going to see digital versions of your favorite games with added "features" and content to lure you to digital over disc based.
I find it funny how people are saying that I "lost" when I don't have a job or an allegiance now.
What I do have is 20 years of experience making games and seeing how the sausage is made.

-Cliffy B.


Hahaha you used XBRO frat boy incarnate to portray your feelings?

Make a game worth keeping and you won't see people reselling. Like someone else said, that douche is the Rob Leifeld of video games.
 
2013-06-20 10:12:00 AM  
Why can't MS allow used games as they currently exist AND digital rights sharing/transfer to sell your downloaded games? Everyone is talking like it's an either/or, that seems like an artificially imposed choice.
 
2013-06-20 10:15:02 AM  

Electromax: Why can't MS allow used games as they currently exist AND digital rights sharing/transfer to sell your downloaded games? Everyone is talking like it's an either/or, that seems like an artificially imposed choice.


Meh, to me it feels like a fair trade. If you want to digitally download, it's there immediately but it's yours only (and it should be a little cheaper). If you want to be able to trade freely with friends then you gotta put a little more effort (either go to a store or order online and wait).

But we'll have to wait and see what happens, you never know. There's rumors going around that Steam is working on a used game market for digital games.
 
2013-06-20 10:16:14 AM  

BAMFinator: Too late MS.  Friends and family are switching to PS4 so that is where my money is going.  XB1 has some nice exclusives, but so does PS4.
Saw someone say "a day late and a dollar short" I would say, "A day late and $100 short."

/I will be sad to miss TitanFall until it makes it to the PS4.


More of XBO's exclusives will come to PC than PS4s. If you can manage a Steam Box and a PS4 I think you're covered.
 
2013-06-20 10:16:37 AM  

Mangoose: "Xbox One hardware is not compatible with Xbox 360 games. We designed Xbox One to play an entirely new generation of games-games that are architected to take full advantage of state-of-the-art processors and the infinite power of the cloud. "

That's some mighty fine bullshiat you got there.


Yeah, especially because the "state-of-the-art processors" are x86-64 based and NOBODY could figure out how to make a PowerPC emulator for that, no sir.

At least with the PS4 and PS3 games I buy that they can't make a direct emulator, since even the people programming for it didn't understand the PS3's damn Cell processor.

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Not everyone is interested in loaning games, in the first place, and there are plenty of users out there who do not always have guaranteed connections to the Internet. I know that my military friends were, in particular, considering this a deal breaker because it meant that they couldn't use the consoles on many of their deployments.

Worse, MS just brushed those concerns aside by claiming that we were now in a networked world and that we should just deal with it. They weren't expecting people to deal with it by switching to Sony, I guess.


Yep.  As someone posting from a borrowed connection because their DSL is refusing to cooperate right now, let me tell you that the world is not ready for a once-a-day check-in on a console yet.  If Microsoft wants that they can use some of their obscene wealth to lobby congress to make the telcos actually upgrade everyone to broadband like they were supposed to twenty-fark years ago.

Some 'Splainin' To Do: I've heard both that it was going to be, period, and also that it would be, but only for streaming titles. This is the first I've heard that it flat out won't be.


Sony's said in a few places that the PS4 can't be "natively" backwards compatible (as in play things off the disc) because of the vast difference in architecture.  Unlike the Xbone, that argument makes sense, since emulating the Cell and its dozen-ish subprocessors (that nobody figured out how to use) is not really doable.  Every time they've said that though, they've also said that they'll be offering older titles as streaming downloads, possibly PSN titles or something else.  On the one hand, I doubt they'll offer credit if you already own the physical copy of the game.  On the other hand, its better than the XBO is going to do.

change1211: Both consoles are switching to a new architecture, therefore neither console can play old disks.


As above, but I have to claim bullshiat on this.  Sony at least can argue "we made the Cell too complicated".  MS has ALREADY done cross-architecture backwards compatibility when they allowed certain Xbox titles to run on the 360, and that was x86-32 -> PowerPC.  So it's already been done before, and yet PowerPC -> x86-64 is some kind of dark voodoo magic?  Bullshiat.

moothemagiccow: It's DRM. Just because everyone co-opts the word DRM to mean something new every year doesn't mean no DRM. The most basic definition of DRM is copy-protection. DRM covers everything from region-locking and hardware incompatibility to persistent online authentication, which is what we're talking about.

It's not "no DRM." It's "some DRM." Just because it's common or old doesn't mean it's not DRM.


Actually, the most basic definition of DRM is "Digital Rights Management", as in the rights management itself is digital, not the thing that is being managed is digital.  So no, physical media is not DRM.  Physical media is the distribution method.

MrSteve007: At least in my situation, and most folks these days, broadband isn't that hard to find. shiat, I have 100Mbps fiber at work, 35 Mbps DSL or cable at home, Clearwire's WiMax gives me 25 Mbps even out on my boat, and even my cell phone has a ping of 82 and download speeds between 9 and 18 Mbps - and I live out in the middle of farm fields. Even if you're way out in the middle of nowhere, you can get decent internet via satellite - like my parents do out in the mountains.

If you say you can't get any internet above dial-up, and you live in the lower 48 states, you're not even trying - or a poor ass sucker who can't afford a $500 console in the first place.


Alright shiatbird, what magical candyland do you live in?  'cause I live less than an hour away from a major metropolitan area and my internet options are:

1) Dial up
2) < 3mbps DSL over copper
3) < 5mbps Wifi with 300ms minimum ping time and packetloss above 10%
4) < 5mbps Satellite with a minimum ping time of 1200ms because physics
5) < 4mbps phone connection which gets oversaturated at 50 simultaneous connections (so, like, opening youtube, your email, and skype all at the same time makes it freeze).

And I'm lucky compared to some of my relatives.  I have family members who I have had to walk through getting ISDN set up because that is literally their best option.

A huge chunk of the country does not have access to good broadband, particularly in the mountainous areas where running fiber is difficult if not impossible.

Also, I call bullshiat on your numbers.  Unless your phone is made out of unobtanium there's no way that 9mbps is sustainable.  9mbps burst, maybe.
 
2013-06-20 10:28:51 AM  

RexTalionis: codergirl42: Yeah it's not like you ever had to outstretch your arms for extended periods of times in real life.

Typically, I don't. They usually just hang at my side. I am not a Chinese vampire.


img.fark.net

"Brah!"
 
2013-06-20 10:38:54 AM  

Elegy: TheOmni: Elegy: I'm actually a little bummed that MS backed down. I understand why they did it - Internet hate machine was steamrolling them and all - but with the DRM checking came the ability loan out digital copies of my game library, meaning I could have swapped games with my XBL friends. Now, no DRM, back to shiatty single-use licensing for digital content.

It's not no DRM. It's just back to the shiatty DRM we have had before instead of a new and differently shiatty DRM.

Being able to lend out 10 digital copies of games isn't a shiatty DRM - it would have been the most permissive DRM for digital content in the industry. The 24/1 hr checkins were needed to counterbalance people cheating the loan system.

But everyone screamed about 24hr checkins, and MS didn't get on top of the message that the checkins were counterbalanced by a very generous loan policy, and now we're back to the same shiatty model Steam and the 360 have, where I buy a digital game and its stuck on my device [sigh]


Don't worry, Valve is already stealing the idea of shared libraries, and it will be the best thing ever because it's not MS....  This is why we can't have nice things.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/19/4445844/valve-steam-game-sharing
 
2013-06-20 10:41:02 AM  
 
2013-06-20 10:53:12 AM  

yukichigai: Also, I call bullshiat on your numbers.  Unless your phone is made out of unobtanium there's no way that 9mbps is sustainable.  9mbps burst, maybe.


You're free to judge yourself. Notice that there's one wifi connected test, and all the rest are from cell towers - and the last few were all done right next to one another, so it's no burst speed. I guess I'll keep using my unobtanium phone (with unlimited data)
fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-06-20 10:58:23 AM  

way south: Fun story: When World of warcraft designers wanted to prevent players from burning through the content too quickly, they decided to come up with a rest system. Play too long and they penalize your XP take.
Players hated it.
So the designers withdrew it but came up with a new system that, instead, gave you an XP bonus for the first few hours of play before tapering off.
Players loved it.


One way encourages you to play less by making your time more efficient.  One discourages you from continuing to play by making your time progressively less valuable.  Why were they stupid to love the 2nd way over the 1st?  Because it made their efforts more productive, rather than the same or worse?
 
2013-06-20 11:00:04 AM  

CrowdSceneExtra: I can think of no way that a system can support 1) disconnected play, 2) disc-less running, and 3) reselling all at the same time.  The original Xbox system thought disc-less running and reselling were the greatest features, but apparently the internet thinks disconnected play and reselling are the best features.  I personally would have gone with the PC route of disconnected play and disc-less running (aka the Steam approach).


From what I understand, Valve has been exploring the option of reselling on Steam.  They kind of have the infrastructure now, with "gifting", it is just a matter of maybe making a microtransaction ($1 - $5) on top of the sales to make it a reality (so the license holders would agree).  I could foresee several ways it could work, one of which would be:

-Only resell games after a given window past initial release (i.e. 1 year)
-All reselling would give a cut to 3 parties: the licensholder, the original purchaser, valve.  So out of maybe a $20 resale, you get $15, the valve and lets say bethesday would split $5.  The $15 would be in Steam store credit, not real world currency.
 
2013-06-20 11:14:23 AM  

RyansPrivates: CrowdSceneExtra: I can think of no way that a system can support 1) disconnected play, 2) disc-less running, and 3) reselling all at the same time.  The original Xbox system thought disc-less running and reselling were the greatest features, but apparently the internet thinks disconnected play and reselling are the best features.  I personally would have gone with the PC route of disconnected play and disc-less running (aka the Steam approach).

From what I understand, Valve has been exploring the option of reselling on Steam.  They kind of have the infrastructure now, with "gifting", it is just a matter of maybe making a microtransaction ($1 - $5) on top of the sales to make it a reality (so the license holders would agree).  I could foresee several ways it could work, one of which would be:

-Only resell games after a given window past initial release (i.e. 1 year)
-All reselling would give a cut to 3 parties: the licensholder, the original purchaser, valve.  So out of maybe a $20 resale, you get $15, the valve and lets say bethesday would split $5.  The $15 would be in Steam store credit, not real world currency.


It would be interesting to see how reselling works with steam sales. Could I buy 20 copies of a game when it is on sale for 90% off, wait for the sale to end and then resell them for a couple bucks more than I paid (but still less than normal selling price)?
 
2013-06-20 11:18:22 AM  

Elegy: 6 great things you're losing with xbox's DRM change.

Discuss.

/or feel free to submit


Easy: Every single one of the things on that list (except for cloud computing, which is marketing bullshiat) could still be done without the 24-hour check-in portion of the DRM (and the other asinine bits):

1) Digital Library: could still be done with digital copies of the game.  Correction, WILL be done with digital copies of the game.  You want your games managed by a digital library?  Easy: BUY THE DIGITAL VERSION.  Microsoft has confirmed they're still going this route, so it's not lost.

2) Sharing with 10 family members: No, it's not lost.  You can still share your games with 10 family members.  Hell, you can share them with 100 family members, one at a time, because that's how game discs work.  Now as far as sharing DIGITAL copies goes, the only reason that's lost is because MS is pulling it, not because the always-on DRM is going away.  Keeping track of who is allowed to have the game and who is not ain't exactly rocket science.  Make them connect to the internet simultaneously once to do the loan, then again to return the game.  Maybe even make the person with the loaned game connect once per day to ensure the loan is still good.  There, fixed.  Was that hard?

3) No gifting purchased games online: Again, this is only going away because Microsoft is making it go away.  The same concept as the above: it's not hard to figure out how to do this one.  Steam is already implementing this (because the EU says they have to) and they sure as hell aren't implementing any 24-hour check-ins.  So no, it's not because of the loss of DRM, it's because MS doesn't feel like doing it anymore.

4) You have to use a game disc: This is just #1 phrased a different way.  But to pretend this is a different question (somehow): if someone wants an all-digital, no disc swapping setup they'll buy the digital versions of their games.  If they don't like swapping discs, maybe they shouldn't buy games on disc.

5) Cloud computing: is absolutely irrelevant for gaming purposes, and for the very same reason the 24-hour check-in was: the world's broadband infrastructure simply isn't there.  If you live in a town that gets FIOS then yeah, maybe you can use some sweet offloaded server processing awesomeness.  If you live where I am, where 1.5m is a good connection... no.  Just, no.  It wasn't going to work even with the DRM.  It's not lost, because it never existed.

6) Low priced games: We call that "buying used games from craigslist/ebay/gamestop" around these parts.  There is still a low-priced games market, it just isn't one run by the platform creator.  I won't even get into the argument over whether or not games would actually have been low price because of the DRM.

In other words, we haven't actually lost anything, other than asinine DRM that most of the world's broadband capabilities simply couldn't support.
 
2013-06-20 11:20:03 AM  

Carth: It would be interesting to see how reselling works with steam sales. Could I buy 20 copies of a game when it is on sale for 90% off, wait for the sale to end and then resell them for a couple bucks more than I paid (but still less than normal selling price)?


good point.  I hadn't thought of the Steam steals, sales.  If dong this ends them, then forget it.  I love me some steam sales.
 
2013-06-20 11:22:02 AM  

MrSteve007: yukichigai: Also, I call bullshiat on your numbers.  Unless your phone is made out of unobtanium there's no way that 9mbps is sustainable.  9mbps burst, maybe.

You're free to judge yourself. Notice that there's one wifi connected test, and all the rest are from cell towers - and the last few were all done right next to one another, so it's no burst speed. I guess I'll keep using my unobtanium phone (with unlimited data)
[fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net image 768x1280]


A speed test shows you burst speed.  Unless it was running that speed test for an hour straight the only thing it showed is that your phone was able to manage fast speeds for a minute or two at a time.  Not really useful for online gaming if it can't do any longer than that.
 
2013-06-20 11:25:55 AM  

RyansPrivates: Carth: It would be interesting to see how reselling works with steam sales. Could I buy 20 copies of a game when it is on sale for 90% off, wait for the sale to end and then resell them for a couple bucks more than I paid (but still less than normal selling price)?

good point.  I hadn't thought of the Steam steals, sales.  If dong this ends them, then forget it.  I love me some steam sales.


Agreed. I guess they could always put a limit that you can't resell anything for more than you paid for it. That might piss off developers still since I"m sure you'd have some nice people who would still do it and just break even then solicit donations externally.
 
2013-06-20 11:26:03 AM  

Carth: It would be interesting to see how reselling works with steam sales. Could I buy 20 copies of a game when it is on sale for 90% off, wait for the sale to end and then resell them for a couple bucks more than I paid (but still less than normal selling price)?


It probably wouldn't be hard to link virtual copies of the game with their original purchase price, even retroactively (I know they keep purchase and payment records basically forever).  All they'd have to do to curtail that would be to make it so you could only sell it for as much or less than you bought it for.
 
2013-06-20 11:35:19 AM  

yukichigai: 2) Sharing with 10 family members: No, it's not lost. You can still share your games with 10 family members. Hell, you can share them with 100 family members, one at a time, because that's how game discs work. Now as far as sharing DIGITAL copies goes, the only reason that's lost is because MS is pulling it, not because the always-on DRM is going away. Keeping track of who is allowed to have the game and who is not ain't exactly rocket science. Make them connect to the internet simultaneously once to do the loan, then again to return the game. Maybe even make the person with the loaned game connect once per day to ensure the loan is still good. There, fixed. Was that hard?


Plus they had no farking clue how that was actually going to work. That was their frist knee-jerk reaction to the backlash regarding lending/selling used games. All they said was "Well we're doing a family plan where you can share!" When someone asked about the details it was "We don't have any details, but it'll be cool!"

I'm fine with seeing a "feature" disappear that wasn't even really there in the first place.
 
2013-06-20 11:43:38 AM  
They might be changing their way at launch, but I bet the terms of service state they can change it at their whim.  Then again who the hell reads those...

Screw Microsoft
Screw Sony

Both want to invade your privacy...
 
2013-06-20 11:55:21 AM  

RyansPrivates: CrowdSceneExtra: I can think of no way that a system can support 1) disconnected play, 2) disc-less running, and 3) reselling all at the same time.  The original Xbox system thought disc-less running and reselling were the greatest features, but apparently the internet thinks disconnected play and reselling are the best features.  I personally would have gone with the PC route of disconnected play and disc-less running (aka the Steam approach).

From what I understand, Valve has been exploring the option of reselling on Steam.  They kind of have the infrastructure now, with "gifting", it is just a matter of maybe making a microtransaction ($1 - $5) on top of the sales to make it a reality (so the license holders would agree).  I could foresee several ways it could work, one of which would be:

-Only resell games after a given window past initial release (i.e. 1 year)
-All reselling would give a cut to 3 parties: the licensholder, the original purchaser, valve.  So out of maybe a $20 resale, you get $15, the valve and lets say bethesday would split $5.  The $15 would be in Steam store credit, not real world currency.



I can see a Steam re-selling system working because it doesn't rely on discs and you'll need to be online to transfer the license.  I higly doubt you will be able to take a disc for a Steam enabled game and sell it offline like you can with console discs at Gamestop, and even then Steam still checks in occasionally to verify your licenses in offline mode (most people report 14 days in offline mode before it needs to recheck).
 
2013-06-20 12:03:06 PM  

CrowdSceneExtra: Maul555: CrowdSceneExtra: MythDragon: There seems to be quite  a few people on gamefaqs that are pissed at this. For God's sake why? They seem to think that DRM ladden games would be cheaper. And taking away the constant on-line requirement somehow ruins the system? The fark?

Why are people actualy mad about this?

I'm annoyed at this change.  I couldn't care less about used games because I don't sell my games and it's been years since I bought one.  What I was looking forward to most was disc-less gaming.  Just install the game and then you can switch between TV, apps, or any game seamlessly.  Now you'll need to swap discs to switch between games.  No more playing one game, getting an invite to another game and switching without digging around on your shelves to find the new disc.

I can still get a similar experience buying the full games off of XBL, but my bandwidth caps suck so I'll be paying a lot of overage fees if I want to enjoy disc-less gaming and if I delete something from the HDD I'll need to re-download it rather than reinstalling it from a disc.  It's stupid that the same data needs to be treated differently just because one set of data was downloaded and the other set was burned to a CD and shipped.  It's not a popular opinion, but I would rather that MS did away with used games as a means of disabling the 24 hour check-in rather than leaving used games intact and requiring a disc check before playing.

If this is really is changing like you say, then it has nothing to do with the public/developers pressuring Microsoft into reversing their policies.   Microsoft can still implement this feature if they want.   Absolutely nothing is stopping them but their own self-imposed policies.   They could allow the best of both worlds...


Read the latest update.  If you buy a disc-based game now, the disc needs to be in the tray.  With the previous system, the disc was just an install media and all license management was handled digitally by the check-in.  This ...


I know it seems ripe for abuse, but I think that never being able to put your Xbox online again if you want to abuse the system is a pretty high price to pay.
 
2013-06-20 12:25:00 PM  

yukichigai: A speed test shows you burst speed. Unless it was running that speed test for an hour straight the only thing it showed is that your phone was able to manage fast speeds for a minute or two at a time. Not really useful for online gaming if it can't do any longer than that.


Dude, what online game requires a constant 10 Mbps of stream to function? Bandwidth of online gaming is next to nothing in comparison. Ping is what matters. As for sustained speeds, I regularly spend hour+ periods streaming 720p HD netflix streams on the phone with no loss in quality. Heck, 1 out of 4 of all US cell subscribers currently have LTE data, and that's expected to rise to 3 out of 4 cell subscribers within the next 3-years. Even the New York Times says that LTE data speeds are "enough for smooth streaming for live video and better response times for online multiplayer games. "

Even Microsoft's "cloud" rendering for the XB1 only needs 1.5Mbps to function, which if I had to, I know my LTE data could hold up to that standard.

Face it, not only have I proved that "unobtanium" phones exist, but I proved my claim with a screenshot of multiple data transfers w/ high pings, and additionally sourced my data from two well known sources. You, on the other-hand, have just spouted contrarian bullshiat and haven't sourced a single opinion.
 
2013-06-20 12:27:42 PM  
Serious question about Kinect.  I have zero interest in Kinect but I still may lean towards an XB1.  All of my gear is literally in a ventilated closet, so there's no light and the only sound is from equipment and the exhaust fan.  So, I could simply throw the Kinect in the closet and it can enjoy staring into darkness while listening to fans whir.  Is this solution feasible, or does something with Kinect REQUIRE human interaction at some point?
 
2013-06-20 12:40:16 PM  
Cliffy B. and all the game devs that want to double-dip on getting paid for their work can bite me and the rest of the art community. Among other things, I'm a writer, artist, musician, etc. and if someone buys a book or album I created, I get royalties from the FIRST sale. I get nothing if the person resells it to someone else... AND I LIKE IT THAT WAY. I   want  it that way.

I want people to share my work. If I get paid from the first sale, and the person who bought it can make back some money selling it to someone else, I may not get the royalties, but I get a new audience member. Maybe this person likes it enough to buy a new copy, or maybe they like it enough to seek out other things I made. Either way, it's ultimately GOOD for me if I don't impose a "you can't buy used" rule on people.

Cliffy B. and other devs like him are short-sighted and greedy. The ones who work for big companies are paid a healthy salary for their work (see "work for hire"), and can work out royalty/merchandising deals on the side if they actually own the IP. If they're indie developers, then they get paid with each sale and they get MORE sales when people share their work and give them advertising and exposure.

Preventing people from selling what they've purchased, buying used, and sharing with friends/family is a great way to alienate and isolate your audience. There are hundreds of books, albums, movies, and other things I would never have been exposed to if I hadn't found them in used bookstores, record stores, rental businesses, or my friends' bookshelves.

And when I found these things and liked them, I sought out the creator and bought more of their work.

So again: Cliffy B. can kiss my ass. He's a jerk who is in the business for money, not to be creative. This is why so many of us refer to him as the Rob Liefeld of video games; He's not particularly talented, and he thinks he deserves praise and pay for everything he does, even in the second-hand market. Screw you, Cliff.
 
2013-06-20 12:40:27 PM  

Super_pope: way south: Fun story: When World of warcraft designers wanted to prevent players from burning through the content too quickly, they decided to come up with a rest system. Play too long and they penalize your XP take.
Players hated it.
So the designers withdrew it but came up with a new system that, instead, gave you an XP bonus for the first few hours of play before tapering off.
Players loved it.

One way encourages you to play less by making your time more efficient.  One discourages you from continuing to play by making your time progressively less valuable.  Why were they stupid to love the 2nd way over the 1st?  Because it made their efforts more productive, rather than the same or worse?




In both versions of the new system you were penalized for going over the arbitrarily allotted play time.
All they did was change the name and players stopped complaining, regardless of the fact they were still getting screwed.
Now other mmos have adopted the same system they once derided.

...Which is the point here. People will want digital licensing when its sold properly.
Microsoft failed at the sales pitch. We haven't seen the end of the idea.
 
2013-06-20 12:41:01 PM  

MrSteve007: yukichigai: A speed test shows you burst speed. Unless it was running that speed test for an hour straight the only thing it showed is that your phone was able to manage fast speeds for a minute or two at a time. Not really useful for online gaming if it can't do any longer than that.

Dude, what online game requires a constant 10 Mbps of stream to function? Bandwidth of online gaming is next to nothing in comparison. Ping is what matters. As for sustained speeds, I regularly spend hour+ periods streaming 720p HD netflix streams on the phone with no loss in quality. Heck, 1 out of 4 of all US cell subscribers currently have LTE data, and that's expected to rise to 3 out of 4 cell subscribers within the next 3-years. Even the New York Times says that LTE data speeds are "enough for smooth streaming for live video and better response times for online multiplayer games. "

Even Microsoft's "cloud" rendering for the XB1 only needs 1.5Mbps to function, which if I had to, I know my LTE data could hold up to that standard.


Face it, not only have I proved that "unobtanium" phones exist, but I proved my claim with a screenshot of multiple data transfers w/ high pings, and additionally sourced my data from two well known sources. You, on the other-hand, have just spouted contrarian bullshiat and haven't sourced a single opinion.


I called your 9mbps claim bullshiat and said it could maybe manage 9mbps burst, not sustained.  You responded by posting results of a speed test, which measures burst speed.  Then you went off on a tangent about some 10mbps connection requirement I supposedly talked about and gave two links refuting something I never said.

Your phone is not unobtanium, it's like every other phone: it can handle bursts of high speed traffic, then will inevitably choke when trying to sustain speed because either the cell tower or the connection itself gets oversaturated.  When that happens the bandwidth doesn't just drop, your latency gets sporadic as hell.  Which, like I said, makes it useless for online gaming.

And since you care about sources, source: anyone who's tried to play an online FPS over a tethered phone connection ever.
 
2013-06-20 12:52:49 PM  

way south: In both versions of the new system you were penalized for going over the arbitrarily allotted play time.


"When rested, your XP bar will turn blue, and a notch will appear indicating exactly how rested you are. You will earn double XP from killing monsters while rested until your XP bar fills to the notch. A rested character earns double combat XP until this rest state is consumed"

So... my non-play time can be banked to make my play time doubly productive versus:

"In the beta version of the original game, rest did not exist and experience was designed to prevent players from playing more than few hours in a row. Experience gained was divided by 50% after few hours."

In one version, I get double productivity for the hours I play in exchange for the hours I DON'T play.  In the other, I get regular productivity for the hours I play, up until a certain point where the hours I play become half as productive.

In the first instance, I literally lose nothing by continuing to play, and I gain a substantial benefit from the rest.  In the second, I literally gain nothing, and if I continue trying to play my productivity declines sharply.  I don't know how you interpret the first scenario as "getting screwed."
 
2013-06-20 12:58:00 PM  
yukichigai: I called your 9mbps claim bullshiat and said it could maybe manage 9mbps burst, not sustained. You responded by posting results of a speed test, which measures burst speed.

1) Speedtest samples speeds over time and averages them.

Throughput samples are received at up to 30 times per second.
These samples are then aggregated into 20 slices (each being 5% of the samples).
The fastest 10% and slowest 30% of the slices are then discarded. We'll explain that more below.


2) LTE is capable of doing 30 mbps sustained under ideal conditions (maybe faster now, I'm not a phone tester anymore)

That was under lab conditions though, but that translates into a very real, very sustainable 10+ mbps in the real world.

// YMMV depending on location and carrier, but in my case, I don't even bother connecting to wifi because invariably if I have a 4G connection, it's faster than whatever open wifi I can find. OTOH, OMFG 3G feels so slow now.
 
2013-06-20 01:02:25 PM  
yukichigai : And since you care about sources, source: anyone who's tried to play an online FPS over a tethered phone connection ever.

Also on the gaming front, it's the latency that counts the most, not the bandwidth.

Source: Everyone who ever played doom, quake, quake 2 over a dialup modem at 33.6

// thankfully, my ISP back then ran quake 2 servers, their central hub was just about 10 miles north of me. 20-30 ms pings == nice. Outside of their servers, I was lucky to get 60-80ms.
 
2013-06-20 01:11:44 PM  

Maul555: Read the latest update. If you buy a disc-based game now, the disc needs to be in the tray. With the previous system, the disc was just an install media and all license management was handled digitally by the check-in. This ...

I know it seems ripe for abuse, but I think that never being able to put your Xbox online again if you want to abuse the system is a pretty high price to pay.



You could still put your Xbox online after you had finished a single player game, but by trading it in immediately you would get your copy of the game straight into the used game market when its value was highest and when publishers rely the most on new sales to turn a profit.

Consider a blockbuster game, for example The Last of Us.  It's a single player game and I've heard that it takes 20-24 hours to play through the full story and get the full experience out of the game.  If I can play 1-2 hrs per day and was intent on trading it in as soon as I finished it, my copy of the game would stay out of the used game market for around 2 weeks.

EB Games up here in Canuckistan (our Gamestop) is running a promotion for TLoU.  If you trade it in, they will give you its purchase price minus $1 per day you've had the game.  They want used copies on the shelf so that they can pocket the cash rather than the publisher.  With a no-disc, no-check-in system, I could go to the midnight launch of the game, install it on my console, unplug the network, and resell the game back to EB for $1 less than I bought it when the store opens in the morning.  The first customer to walk into EB that wasn't at the midnight release could already get a used copy, yet I still have a copy on my console at home that I can finish at my own leisure.  After I've finished the game, I can then plug my console back in, get the license revoked, and go back to EB for my next game.
 
2013-06-20 01:12:23 PM  
Of course, after a while, they will update their EULA and force you to upgrade to a version which switches this all back on due to "so much hacking" or whatnot.

You're gonna get it; it's just a matter of time.

/adjusts tin foil hat
 
2013-06-20 01:21:08 PM  

IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: Serious question about Kinect. I have zero interest in Kinect but I still may lean towards an XB1. All of my gear is literally in a ventilated closet, so there's no light and the only sound is from equipment and the exhaust fan. So, I could simply throw the Kinect in the closet and it can enjoy staring into darkness while listening to fans whir. Is this solution feasible, or does something with Kinect REQUIRE human interaction at some point?


It should function like that . . . but I assume you have a HDMI cord running from that closet to your TV. Just snake the Kinect cord along the same route and mount it below the TV. The voice control is actually pretty nice when watching Netflix, especially when your hands are all greasy from popcorn. If you're afraid of the camera, just put some tape over it.
 
2013-06-20 01:26:36 PM  

MrSteve007: yukichigai: A speed test shows you burst speed. Unless it was running that speed test for an hour straight the only thing it showed is that your phone was able to manage fast speeds for a minute or two at a time. Not really useful for online gaming if it can't do any longer than that.

Dude, what online game requires a constant 10 Mbps of stream to function? Bandwidth of online gaming is next to nothing in comparison. Ping is what matters. As for sustained speeds, I regularly spend hour+ periods streaming 720p HD netflix streams on the phone with no loss in quality. Heck, 1 out of 4 of all US cell subscribers currently have LTE data, and that's expected to rise to 3 out of 4 cell subscribers within the next 3-years. Even the New York Times says that LTE data speeds are "enough for smooth streaming for live video and better response times for online multiplayer games. "

Even Microsoft's "cloud" rendering for the XB1 only needs 1.5Mbps to function, which if I had to, I know my LTE data could hold up to that standard.

Face it, not only have I proved that "unobtanium" phones exist, but I proved my claim with a screenshot of multiple data transfers w/ high pings, and additionally sourced my data from two well known sources. You, on the other-hand, have just spouted contrarian bullshiat and haven't sourced a single opinion.


Dude, you're weird.  No one else has that much internet that fast (except Silicon Valley where the slowest stuff they offer is 25Mbps), except occasionally at extortionate prices

The cheapest fast internet they offered in MI was Comcast business-class (12 Mbps for $60/month with no throttling and no caps).  Since my hometown was a Time Warner monopoly, things were even worse there, where getting 6 Mbps was $50.  It's not bad (though given the average income, $60/month for internet was a HARD sell, and I once had internet go down for 3 weeks while Time Warner laughed at us and refused to send a guy out).  It's just not good enough to support streaming video AND the XBOX connection, which is a fairly common use case.

/Oh hey, you're in Seattle.
//Oh hey, MSFT is also in Seattle (and their programmers are all rich and can afford expensive fast internet).
///Oh hey, I wonder if that's why MSFT farked the always-on connection up.
 
2013-06-20 01:31:05 PM  

yukichigai: I called your 9mbps claim bullshiat and said it could maybe manage 9mbps burst, not sustained. You responded by posting results of a speed test, which measures burst speed. Then you went off on a tangent about some 10mbps connection requirement I supposedly talked about and gave two links refuting something I never said.

Your phone is not unobtanium, it's like every other phone: it can handle bursts of high speed traffic, then will inevitably choke when trying to sustain speed because either the cell tower or the connection itself gets oversaturated. When that happens the bandwidth doesn't just drop, your latency gets sporadic as hell. Which, like I said, makes it useless for online gaming.

And since you care about sources, source: anyone who's tried to play an online FPS over a tethered phone connection ever.


Well, if you can conjure up a way for me to benchmark my sustained transfer speeds, I'd love to prove you wrong.

/also, if you notice, my "burst" tests were with only 3 out of 5 bars of cell reception.
 
2013-06-20 01:41:09 PM  

MrSteve007: yukichigai: I called your 9mbps claim bullshiat and said it could maybe manage 9mbps burst, not sustained. You responded by posting results of a speed test, which measures burst speed. Then you went off on a tangent about some 10mbps connection requirement I supposedly talked about and gave two links refuting something I never said.

Your phone is not unobtanium, it's like every other phone: it can handle bursts of high speed traffic, then will inevitably choke when trying to sustain speed because either the cell tower or the connection itself gets oversaturated. When that happens the bandwidth doesn't just drop, your latency gets sporadic as hell. Which, like I said, makes it useless for online gaming.

And since you care about sources, source: anyone who's tried to play an online FPS over a tethered phone connection ever.

Well, if you can conjure up a way for me to benchmark my sustained transfer speeds, I'd love to prove you wrong.

/also, if you notice, my "burst" tests were with only 3 out of 5 bars of cell reception.


Honestly, torrent a Linux ISO.  You're unlikely to be torrent-side limited, so just take (size of ISO/time of download) and that's your speed.
 
2013-06-20 01:43:14 PM  
Little piece of electrical tape will solve a multitude of problems.

Every one use scotch tape, All those blurry pictures will have them freaking over a bunch of "bad cameras".

Easy set up for cheap entertainment.
 
2013-06-20 01:43:54 PM  

yukichigai: If Microsoft wants that they can use some of their obscene wealth to lobby congress to make the telcos actually upgrade everyone to broadband like they were supposed to twenty-fark years ago.


Finally some farking sense in this thread.
 
2013-06-20 01:46:39 PM  

ShamanGator: Little piece of electrical tape will solve a multitude of problems.

Every one use scotch tape, All those blurry pictures will have them freaking over a bunch of "bad cameras".

Easy set up for cheap entertainment.


Pfft, I will just smear some Vasoline on it...since I will already have it handy

/what?  I have dry skin!
 
2013-06-20 01:57:10 PM  

meyerkev: Dude, you're weird. No one else has that much internet that fast (except Silicon Valley where the slowest stuff they offer is 25Mbps), except occasionally at extortionate prices

The cheapest fast internet they offered in MI was Comcast business-class (12 Mbps for $60/month with no throttling and no caps). Since my hometown was a Time Warner monopoly, things were even worse there, where getting 6 Mbps was $50. It's not bad (though given the average income, $60/month for internet was a HARD sell, and I once had internet go down for 3 weeks while Time Warner laughed at us and refused to send a guy out). It's just not good enough to support streaming video AND the XBOX connection, which is a fairly common use case.


Currently I pay $39 a month for 20mb DSL at home (although I could pay $65 for 40Mbps) through Centurylink. I typically switch every 12 months between Comcast cable and Centurylink, to get their 12-month cheap offers.

Looks like on Comcast, I could go for 20Mbps for $29 a month, 50 Mbps for $75 or 105Mbps for $115 a month right now. Clearwire offers similar speeds to my cell phone (WiMax/LTE), for about $35 a month, month-to-month.

I live about an hour south of the Seattle, in the county, outside of a town of 6,800 people. This is the density of my neighborhood, where daffodils outnumber people about 1,000 to one:
img.fark.net

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-20 02:11:22 PM  

JohnnyC: omeganuepsilon: I'm not paranoid, but I don't want to have it staring at me, or to have to talk to it to make my xbox function.

You doesn't have to stare at you and you don't have to talk to it. See my reply to FlashHarry.


But it's still a mandatory accessory.  AKA a huge load of bullshiat.  Bundling it in was unnecessary and raised the cost.  Kinect isn't as big of a selling point as they'd like to think.  Sure, a lot of them sold really big on the 360, and right now a lot of them get used for one thing, gathering dust. A very large number of people who did buy one simply aren't interested in the next gen of the same shovelware for it.

It was a gimmick.  Sure, cool from a technical standpoint, but craptastic for any real gaming.  Forcing it into the home at all is pointless, tying functionality to it is more-so. When they 180 again and offer the box for cheaper and without it, then get back to me.  Until then, you can suck a big fat one.
 
2013-06-20 02:28:54 PM  

omeganuepsilon: It was a gimmick.  Sure, cool from a technical standpoint, but craptastic for any real gaming.  Forcing it into the home at all is pointless, tying functionality to it is more-so.


I think it's use in games like Forza 4 was incredibly good (head tracking that allowed you to look into the corners). Some of the other kinect based games are really quite good as well. My wife and kids like it too. I think you have some really strong opinions, but they aren't founded from a objective point of view... just your narrow view which you seem unable to see beyond.

Making it mandatory means that all developers can consider it an option in their development process. Previously it was something that only some people had, not all. So developers sometimes would pass on features they could have added which would have used the Kinect because not everyone would have one. That means the feature couldn't be an integral part of the game. Now, with all XB1 systems having it, they can make those features an integral part of their games.

Of course, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to explain it to you. You're likely going to stomp your feet and spew more invectives. Good luck with that.
 
2013-06-20 02:39:26 PM  

meyerkev: MrSteve007: yukichigai: I called your 9mbps claim bullshiat and said it could maybe manage 9mbps burst, not sustained. You responded by posting results of a speed test, which measures burst speed. Then you went off on a tangent about some 10mbps connection requirement I supposedly talked about and gave two links refuting something I never said.

Your phone is not unobtanium, it's like every other phone: it can handle bursts of high speed traffic, then will inevitably choke when trying to sustain speed because either the cell tower or the connection itself gets oversaturated. When that happens the bandwidth doesn't just drop, your latency gets sporadic as hell. Which, like I said, makes it useless for online gaming.

And since you care about sources, source: anyone who's tried to play an online FPS over a tethered phone connection ever.

Well, if you can conjure up a way for me to benchmark my sustained transfer speeds, I'd love to prove you wrong.

/also, if you notice, my "burst" tests were with only 3 out of 5 bars of cell reception.

Honestly, torrent a Linux ISO.  You're unlikely to be torrent-side limited, so just take (size of ISO/time of download) and that's your speed.


Good call. Downloaded on my phone Ubuntu 12.04.2 (64 bit), 695 megs. Time: 6 minutes, 47 seconds.

So if my math is right, my sustained transfer speeds on my phone is about 1.7Mbps - which is more than enough to play any online game. Especially with a sub-100ms ping.
 
2013-06-20 02:51:05 PM  

MrSteve007: So if my math is right, my sustained transfer speeds on my phone is about 1.7Mbps - which is more than enough to play any online game. Especially with a sub-100ms ping.


Heh, looks like my math was wrong - at least according to an online transfer calculator. Looks like it sustained somewhere around 13Mbps and 16Mbps.

yukichigai- You're welcome to admit you're wrong now. If you really want to drive the point home and don't believe me, I could make a 6 minute video of the file transfer - but it sure would a boring video.
img.fark.net
/this screen cap from from my first attempt with the 32-bit software. I was pulled away from my desk before it finished so I didn't have a good time. I did it again with the 64-bit version.
 
2013-06-20 02:51:48 PM  

JohnnyC: omeganuepsilon: It was a gimmick.  Sure, cool from a technical standpoint, but craptastic for any real gaming.  Forcing it into the home at all is pointless, tying functionality to it is more-so.

I think it's use in games like Forza 4 was incredibly good (head tracking that allowed you to look into the corners). Some of the other kinect based games are really quite good as well. My wife and kids like it too. I think you have some really strong opinions, but they aren't founded from a objective point of view... just your narrow view which you seem unable to see beyond.

Making it mandatory means that all developers can consider it an option in their development process. Previously it was something that only some people had, not all. So developers sometimes would pass on features they could have added which would have used the Kinect because not everyone would have one. That means the feature couldn't be an integral part of the game. Now, with all XB1 systems having it, they can make those features an integral part of their games.

Of course, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to explain it to you. You're likely going to stomp your feet and spew more invectives. Good luck with that.


Developers don't really make games for just xbox one anymore though. They make them for consoles and PC. They aren't going to put much work into Kinect because PS4 doesn't have them and less so considering PC doesn't either. Sure some first party games and exclusives will use it but those are th minority and not worth the surcharge in my opinion.
 
2013-06-20 02:54:49 PM  
Uh.. this is M$.  They designed the Domain_Awareness_System .  They've patented a camera that senses heartbeats for consumers.  Do you really think they wont implement their glorified installation discs in year 2 or 3?  The fact that they ARE big brother should drive any respecting adult into sony's arms.  Vote with your wallets.  Privacy or GTFO.
 
2013-06-20 02:55:08 PM  

Super_pope: In the first instance, I literally lose nothing by continuing to play, and I gain a substantial benefit from the rest.  In the second, I literally gain nothing, and if I continue trying to play my productivity declines sharply.  I don't know how you interpret the first scenario as "getting screwed."


In the traditional scenario you are paid XP based on your work, regardless of time invested.  Offline hours are not "rewarded".  There was no habituation system in the mechanics to pace your progress.  You play as much or as little as you desire and the time is as productive as you make it.

Saying "you get double XP for the first hour" is effectivelythe same as saying "you get half XP after the first hour". The system is scaled to discourage extended play sessions and penalize people who share characters or mill points.

Rejecting one and supporting the other means you only objected to the name, not the method.
 
2013-06-20 02:58:07 PM  

MrSteve007: You're welcome to admit you're wrong now.


Why would he need to do that? even if you're telling the truth, you're an extreme outlier.
 
2013-06-20 03:19:39 PM  
MrSteve007:

It should function like that . . . but I assume you have a HDMI cord running from that closet to your TV. Just snake the Kinect cord along the same route and mount it below the TV. The voice control is actually pretty nice when watching Netflix, especially when your hands are all greasy from popcorn. If you're afraid of the camera, just put some tape over it.

I actually have the HDMI running from that closet out to a ceiling mounted projector, so to try and have it run in-wall to the front of the room where the screen is will probably require some type of USB repeater, plus a way to have it "sit" somewhere since I don't want it sitting on my center channel.   So it's easier for me to just leave it hooked up in the closet (assuming that will work), buttery fingers be damned. lol
 
2013-06-20 03:32:31 PM  

IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: I actually have the HDMI running from that closet out to a ceiling mounted projector, so to try and have it run in-wall to the front of the room where the screen is will probably require some type of USB repeater, plus a way to have it "sit" somewhere since I don't want it sitting on my center channel. So it's easier for me to just leave it hooked up in the closet (assuming that will work), buttery fingers be damned. lol


Ah yes, a projector system is a lot different of a setup than w/ TV. I have the same issue at my work's conference room. I'd like to use the Kinect's HD cam system for a cheap Skype setup - but with the projector mounted on the opposite side of the room, it's not a turn-key solution.

Gunther: Why would he need to do that? even if you're telling the truth, you're an extreme outlier.


The dude claimed transfer speeds like that don't exist. On LTE, it does - both in burst and sustained. And considering 25% of all mobile phone users now have LTE, it's not exactly an outlier. I was getting dramatically faster test speeds earlier this week in Anaheim. And a couple weeks ago, decent speeds in Las Vegas (although it was quite busy during memorial day weekend).

If you're in an area with a building taller than 6 stories on the horizon, in all likelihood you have biatch'n fast mobile data these days.

But I'm sure that like with everything else, once Apple puts that equipment in their phones, the rest of the world will be like: "Well, of course it's that fast!"
 
2013-06-20 04:02:07 PM  

JohnnyC: just your narrow view


Project much?
You're the one bringing only anecdotal evidence to the table.

Carth: Developers don't really make games for just xbox one anymore though. They make them for consoles and PC. They aren't going to put much work into Kinect because PS4 doesn't have them and less so considering PC doesn't either. Sure some first party games and exclusives will use it but those are th minority and not worth the surcharge in my opinion.


Exactly

First party / exclusives are the minority, a small niche in the gaming market.  Hence my calling it a gimmick.  A lot of gamers simply don't want that type of interface, and therefore it shouldn't be forced upon them.  It'd be akin to forcing a Flight stick and steering wheel into the box and charging more yet again.

The only way the Kinect even stands a chance with triple A titles such as CoD is some good synergy with things like Oculus Rift where you aren't rooted with looking at a stationary display, and that still requires a controller of some form, because there will always be button presses(IE so you know where to put fingers + tacticle feedback(IE a trigger pull, pausing without talking to your xbox(humanizing inanimate objects is retarded), you'll need input like this to cover movement in a 3d world when you are, in reality, very limited in your living room).

(and back towards little Johnny)
Forcing them into every home is simply offsetting/financing their development costs(similar to cribbing/testing Windows 8 designe from 360's NXE).  It's dirty pool and a lot of people won't go for it, same way a lot of people don't use their kinect anymore(or.......never bought one to begin with *gasp*).  Some felt obligated to give it a chance, and ultimately saw how useless it really is.  Same as millions of large lumps of exercise equipment the world over that have hence turned into racks to hang things on.

Sure, some few, like your obviously inane little family, are easily entertained with the gimmicky aspects of it.
Fine, good for you you're so simply entertained.  Would it be putting you out to reduce the cost on the box and sell the kinect separately?(we've already shown how the dev's as a whole don't rightly care, Dev's like the one's that made Skyrim can work in functionality if they so desire, it's not incredibly difficult, they obviously see the danger of forcing people into it for a genre that's not based on the kinect in the first place(IE a dance game VS CoD/Skyrim)

Now, maybe, it is ahead of it's time.  It's a cool technological development, but not something gamers should be forced to buy(read: finance the development for).  We pay for product, not to be beta testers.
 
2013-06-20 04:07:01 PM  

omeganuepsilon: JohnnyC: just your narrow view

Project much?
You're the one bringing only anecdotal evidence to the table.

Carth: Developers don't really make games for just xbox one anymore though. They make them for consoles and PC. They aren't going to put much work into Kinect because PS4 doesn't have them and less so considering PC doesn't either. Sure some first party games and exclusives will use it but those are th minority and not worth the surcharge in my opinion.

Exactly

First party / exclusives are the minority, a small niche in the gaming market.  Hence my calling it a gimmick.  A lot of gamers simply don't want that type of interface, and therefore it shouldn't be forced upon them.  It'd be akin to forcing a Flight stick and steering wheel into the box and charging more yet again.

The only way the Kinect even stands a chance with triple A titles such as CoD is some good synergy with things like Oculus Rift where you aren't rooted with looking at a stationary display, and that still requires a controller of some form, because there will always be button presses(IE so you know where to put fingers + tacticle feedback(IE a trigger pull, pausing without talking to your xbox(humanizing inanimate objects is retarded), you'll need input like this to cover movement in a 3d world when you are, in reality, very limited in your living room).


I

have to say an Oculus RIft, that treadmill thingy, a Kinect  and a prop gun so you have a trigger and something to point would be pretty awesome. It seems like we have the technology now to do pretty decent VR in people's home it is just getting it under the $1k price point so it catches on.
 
2013-06-20 04:35:44 PM  

Mr Rogers is aroused: Uh.. this is M$.  They designed the Domain_Awareness_System .  They've patented a camera that senses heartbeats for consumers.  Do you really think they wont implement their glorified installation discs in year 2 or 3?  The fact that they ARE big brother should drive any respecting adult into sony's arms.  Vote with your wallets.  Privacy or GTFO.


Because Sony's record on privacy and customer service is so wonderful, amirite?

Malicious rootkits that secretly install off audio CDs un beknowst to the user, massive security breaches exposing their user's data, waiting almost a week to reveal said breaches to their customers, long PSN downtimes, bricking users consoles with bad uldates and expecting users to pay 100+ dollars to fix it (happened more than just this last time)

Glass houses, throwing stones, etc. I'm OK with it if the Kinect makes you uncomfortable - I think you're being overly paranoid about it, but it's your call.

But don't pretend Sony is a paragon of virtue and pure as the driven snow, while MS is big brother and a de facto arm of the surveillance state. That's just stupid.
 
2013-06-20 05:05:43 PM  

Carth: omeganuepsilon: JohnnyC: just your narrow view

Project much?
You're the one bringing only anecdotal evidence to the table.

Carth: Developers don't really make games for just xbox one anymore though. They make them for consoles and PC. They aren't going to put much work into Kinect because PS4 doesn't have them and less so considering PC doesn't either. Sure some first party games and exclusives will use it but those are th minority and not worth the surcharge in my opinion.

Exactly

First party / exclusives are the minority, a small niche in the gaming market.  Hence my calling it a gimmick.  A lot of gamers simply don't want that type of interface, and therefore it shouldn't be forced upon them.  It'd be akin to forcing a Flight stick and steering wheel into the box and charging more yet again.

The only way the Kinect even stands a chance with triple A titles such as CoD is some good synergy with things like Oculus Rift where you aren't rooted with looking at a stationary display, and that still requires a controller of some form, because there will always be button presses(IE so you know where to put fingers + tacticle feedback(IE a trigger pull, pausing without talking to your xbox(humanizing inanimate objects is retarded), you'll need input like this to cover movement in a 3d world when you are, in reality, very limited in your living room).


I have to say an Oculus RIft, that treadmill thingy, a Kinect  and a prop gun so you have a trigger and something to point would be pretty awesome. It seems like we have the technology now to do pretty decent VR in people's home it is just getting it under the $1k price point so it catches on.


What is missing from the kinect is physical feedback.  It actually does a pretty god job (even the old/current version) sensing what you are doing and mapping that to the game, but you never know what happens until you see it on the screen.  Even some simple force feedback wristbands or rings would make the experience 100x better.  Better still, a gun like you mentioned.


TLDR.

Xbox live was down for a bit today.  I couldn't access my cloud saves but I save them locally also so I could still play.  Now, I was pissed that the Xbl service that I pay for was down, but I would have been furious if my Xbox was like "sorry brah, you can't connect so you can't play".

Maybe now the MS apologists can find a new hobby and the rest of us will  considerbuying the system.
 
2013-06-20 05:43:50 PM  

Carth: would be pretty awesome.


They had a decent thing on fark the other day(you basically stand in a low friction bowl), It'll let you run but not strafe so well.
Also pretty difficult, I would imagine, to adapt to depending on your size.

More to the point though, I don't think you'll ever convert any significant part of the populace to standing up and exerting themselves to play a game.  Video games have somewhat taken the place of vegging out in front of the TV after work, that's the niche they fell into, and that's why they've succeeded so well.  A lot of it is mindless entertainment, and even the challenging stuff usually isn't stressful.

It will only work for certain types of games to boot, games with that first person view.  Playing WoW on it would never really work, or Street Fighter, etc.  Sure, you can adapt parts of it to work in novel ways, but it'll never be a main selling point.

People who do want the experience are more than able to get it via other means with a low budget, IE paintball, or more mundane things like jogging.
/fun as it was, my body just can't take it anymore

That's what's great about video games.  It's all in your head, the immersion, the competition, it's cerebral.  all the enjoyment, none of the stress, wear and tear on your body, or danger.  They're just enough to fool those centers of our brains though, so we still get the effect.
 
2013-06-20 05:47:19 PM  
To clarify, it would be very awesome indeed.  But still a gimmick in the end, because anyone who games a lot wouldn't have the dedication to stick with something physically demanding, especially if they have a job that's already demanding.  Either gaming time would be cut back, or it gets X use a day before they go back to the controller, or use it a lot at first, and then slow / stop over time.
 
2013-06-20 05:49:22 PM  

Mr Rogers is aroused: Uh.. this is M$.  They designed the Domain_Awareness_System .  They've patented a camera that senses heartbeats for consumers.  Do you really think they wont implement their glorified installation discs in year 2 or 3?  The fact that they ARE big brother should drive any respecting adult into sony's arms.  Vote with your wallets.  Privacy or GTFO.


Wait, let me get this straight?
The company that has had their customer data hacked twice in the past three years is the one to go to when you are worried about your privacy?

Also people with Facebook and Twitter accounts need not answer that question.

If you are worried about privacy get a WiiU and don't sign up for any online account that requires customer data.
 
2013-06-20 07:38:16 PM  

omeganuepsilon: To clarify, it would be very awesome indeed.  But still a gimmick in the end, because anyone who games a lot wouldn't have the dedication to stick with something physically demanding, especially if they have a job that's already demanding.  Either gaming time would be cut back, or it gets X use a day before they go back to the controller, or use it a lot at first, and then slow / stop over time.


You raise some good points. Me and the friends I game with are all into running as well so the idea of adding running+gaming sounds awesome too us. I forget sometimes that large portions of the population would see that as a kind of torture or just beunable to do it.
 
2013-06-20 07:58:01 PM  

Carth: omeganuepsilon: To clarify, it would be very awesome indeed.  But still a gimmick in the end, because anyone who games a lot wouldn't have the dedication to stick with something physically demanding, especially if they have a job that's already demanding.  Either gaming time would be cut back, or it gets X use a day before they go back to the controller, or use it a lot at first, and then slow / stop over time.

You raise some good points. Me and the friends I game with are all into running as well so the idea of adding running+gaming sounds awesome too us. I forget sometimes that large portions of the population would see that as a kind of torture or just beunable to do it.


Or not have the energy after work, but yeah.

As I sit here in a really humid and warm room, I realize there are other factors at work as well.  Absolutely nasty here.(been a unreasonably cool spring and beginning of summer, and then BLAM, it hits, really need to dust off the AC units..)

It would also be difficult to do around others.  You couldn't play that in the same room as someone, say, reading a book, without driving them up the wall.  People can tolerate a certain amount of noise and even talking, but running and jumping and such....  I don't like it when people stand in the middle of the room in the first place, much less playing CoD.

All of these things contribute to how successful a given thing would be, how much market penetration or whatever.  It'd be cool maybe once a week, but will never fill in for the daily controller(or keyboard /mouse), and never really for hours at a time except for the very physically fit, with a dedicated and isolated gaming space, and the money, and environmental control(god it's warm in here now that I thought about  it, lol).

It'd still maintain "toy" status, rather than the typical relaxing pass-time hobby.
*shrugs and goes the hell outside where there's a breeze*
 
2013-06-20 10:25:12 PM  

MrSteve007: Gunther: Why would he need to do that? even if you're telling the truth, you're an extreme outlier.

The dude claimed transfer speeds like that don't exist. On LTE, it does - both in burst and sustained. And considering 25% of all mobile phone users now have LTE, it's not exactly an outlier. I was getting dramatically faster test speeds earlier this week in Anaheim. And a couple weeks ago, decent speeds in Las Vegas (although it was quite busy during memorial day weekend).

If you're in an area with a building taller than 6 stories on the horizon, in all likelihood you have biatch'n fast mobile data these days.

But I'm sure that like with everything else, once Apple puts that equipment in their phones, the rest of the world will be like: "Well, of course it's that fast!"


Actually I claimed YOUR internet was not that fast, based on having tried to use LTE connections in dozens of places around the country.  And yes, apparently I was wrong.  You have a rather peppy LTE connection.  So yes, claim revoked, apologies etc.

That aside though, you do realize you are exceptionally lucky, right?  I didn't just arbitrarily decide to call bullshiat because derp, I called bullshiat because I have NEVER seen anyone get those speeds outside of the Silicon Valley.  Of course living an hour outside of Seattle I shouldn't be surprised, so again, my bad for not bothering to look at your damn profile first.

Still, the point here I'm trying to make is that your experience is not typical.  You can't say "oh anyone can get good internet" based on your options when you live next to one of the technological capitals of the world.  Why do you think quite a few people in this thread have been disagreeing with you?

Trust me, if I could have an internet connection that wasn't 2.6mbps tops, I would.  I've looked at all the options and there is nothing in my area, and I live probably closer to a major metro area than you do.  This country's network infrastructure is quite mediocre in most places.
 
2013-06-20 10:36:39 PM  
And within 24 hours of this announcement, XBox One becomes Amazon's #1 bestseller in video games, overtaking the PS4.

I'm sure the haters will have some justification as to why this is the case.
 
2013-06-20 10:56:27 PM  
JohnnyC

Kinda amusing you felt the need to spam multiple threads gloating over that. Microsoft and Sony are both global corporations, not sports teams. Do you really wanna cheerlead for either of them?
 
2013-06-20 10:58:26 PM  

Gunther: JohnnyC

Kinda amusing you felt the need to spam multiple threads gloating over that. Microsoft and Sony are both global corporations, not sports teams. Do you really wanna cheerlead for either of them?


Is it any different than Apple fanboys, or political parties, or any other supporter of an entity that doesn't care about their supporters?
 
2013-06-20 11:09:40 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Gunther: JohnnyC

Kinda amusing you felt the need to spam multiple threads gloating over that. Microsoft and Sony are both global corporations, not sports teams. Do you really wanna cheerlead for either of them?

Is it any different than Apple fanboys, or political parties, or any other supporter of an entity that doesn't care about their supporters?


Yes, people legitmately hate Apple. Some don't, and instead defend Apple. Either side has a lot of legitimate points.

In this case, 360 had some terrible things about it.  We call them out on their own admitted news, and the MS fanboys make us out to be villians. Even though we were, by and large, correct, MS admitted as much.....

XBOX actually backs down to us(pay no attention to the higher price and the camera behind the curtain, so to speak[a possibility I forecasted, make it really really really bad, so that when we take a couple of those a way, it's only really bad, but AWESOME in comparson...), and somehow the fanboy wins his fight.  Because his hero renegged on some of the evil shiat it wanted to bring at our behest.

So, no, not like an apple thread, per se(some do get as bad, but not all.  typically you get "I like it"  and the response is "I don't like it." and a resounding meh settles around everyone and they continue on with their lives)
But, just like a completely irrational political thread here on fark?  Yup.  See fartbama and bush blaming in totally random threads sometimes by the same fuctard?  Yup.
 
2013-06-20 11:37:30 PM  
yukichigai : That aside though, you do realize you are exceptionally lucky, right? I didn't just arbitrarily decide to call bullshiat because derp, I called bullshiat because I have NEVER seen anyone get those speeds outside of the Silicon Valley. Of course living an hour outside of Seattle I shouldn't be surprised, so again, my bad for not bothering to look at your damn profile first.

I don't live in Silicon Valley or outside of Seattle. Are you going to add San Diego to your list as well? How about cities I've visited where the 4G connections were just as fast?

Let's just say that if you live in a Major city, your chances of having a good 4G connection go way up.

// Your initial claim was that there was no way HIS phone was getting those speeds sustained, now you're saying he only gets those speeds because of where he lives. SMH
 
2013-06-21 12:33:18 AM  
Sup, guys?

Is this the Xbone thread?? What I got to say to be considered legit?
 
2013-06-21 02:24:28 AM  

BumpInTheNight: /Valve figured out how to do DRM right


no drm is right.
 
2013-06-21 07:26:20 AM  

lordargent: yukichigai : That aside though, you do realize you are exceptionally lucky, right? I didn't just arbitrarily decide to call bullshiat because derp, I called bullshiat because I have NEVER seen anyone get those speeds outside of the Silicon Valley. Of course living an hour outside of Seattle I shouldn't be surprised, so again, my bad for not bothering to look at your damn profile first.

I don't live in Silicon Valley or outside of Seattle. Are you going to add San Diego to your list as well? How about cities I've visited where the 4G connections were just as fast?

Let's just say that if you live in a Major city, your chances of having a good 4G connection go way up.

// Your initial claim was that there was no way HIS phone was getting those speeds sustained, now you're saying he only gets those speeds because of where he lives. SMH


I cannot believe you actually posted the stuff in the slashies after typing the two lines above it where you say exactly what you're criticizing me for saying.
 
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