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(Uproxx)   A Milford, CT man has successfully used Kickstarter to fund publish a "how to get girls" book. A sample excerpt: "Don't ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your d*%k." Well okay then   (uproxx.com) divider line 88
    More: Dumbass, Kickstarter, Neil Strauss, selections, free country  
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2001 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Jun 2013 at 6:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-19 10:48:12 PM

Skywolf the Scribbler: Well that's wonderful ... if you're into hump n dump casual sex. I'd much prefer a meaningful relationship with one person who is right for me when the time is right.


I can tell you from experience that you're setting yourself up, horribly, with that type of attitude.  All that attitude did for me was make me a target for predatory women who wanted to get back at some dude that treated them like shiat.
 
2013-06-19 10:55:49 PM
If that dishonest biatch known as Anita Sarkeesian can rip up idiot feminists for almost 160k on Kickstarter, why should anyone care about this.  Wait, I think I answered my own question.  (Hint: idiot feminists are the only ones who care)
 
2013-06-19 10:58:16 PM

ramblinwreck: rip up


rip off..

/FTFM, ugh...
 
2013-06-19 11:14:32 PM

ramblinwreck: ramblinwreck: rip up

rip off..

/FTFM, ugh...


Kelly Ripa.
 
F42
2013-06-19 11:39:47 PM
because asking for permission to kiss her is sure to make the ladies say yes

nothing they lovemore than a nice, meek boy
 
2013-06-20 12:11:53 AM

torusXL: Having lines drawn, even by a douche bag and his sly book, is better than nothing, especially if we're talking about safety.


That's the point - he's not drawing lines. He's saying that "well, there's a line when she says 'no, stop, get the fark off of me," but really, that just means keep going." He's explicitly arguing  against lines.

torusXL: Until we live in a world where both genders participate equally in sexual encounters, then there will be a need for an analysis on the boundaries of the coy-er sex.


Until we get away from the social requirement that one sex be "coy-er", then we won't have a world with both genders participating equally in sexual encounters,  by definition.
 
2013-06-20 12:13:31 AM

Theaetetus: torusXL: Having lines drawn, even by a douche bag and his sly book, is better than nothing, especially if we're talking about safety.

That's the point - he's not drawing lines. He's saying that "well, there's a line when she says 'no, stop, get the fark off of me," but really, that just means keep going." He's explicitly arguing  against lines.

torusXL: Until we live in a world where both genders participate equally in sexual encounters, then there will be a need for an analysis on the boundaries of the coy-er sex.

Until we get away from the social requirement that one sex be "coy-er", then we won't have a world with both genders participating equally in sexual encounters,  by definition.


I'm saying it'd be better without coy people, not that there should be a large segment of society who are coy. Who's to be the one to initiate people into being less coy? The ones not doing it? How about the ones who lack the action which is, by definition, creating the coyness?
 
2013-06-20 12:14:48 AM

F42: because asking for permission to kiss her is sure to make the ladies say yes

nothing they lovemore than a nice, meek boy


Yeah, well, Theaetetus will understand these culture-creating dynamics when he/she gets older.
 
2013-06-20 12:38:16 AM
Step One: Get some ether and a rag....
 
2013-06-20 12:40:55 AM

torusXL: F42: because asking for permission to kiss her is sure to make the ladies say yes

nothing they lovemore than a nice, meek boy

Yeah, well, Theaetetus will understand these culture-creating dynamics when he/she gets older.


Yeah, that must be it. Anyone who says "we shouldn't condone sexual assault" must be a child whose opinion will change as they grow up. Ha, ha, children sure are weird.
 
2013-06-20 12:49:24 AM

FuryOfFirestorm: Step One: Get some ether and a rag....


Is it a classy rag?
 
2013-06-20 12:50:17 AM

Theaetetus: torusXL: F42: because asking for permission to kiss her is sure to make the ladies say yes

nothing they lovemore than a nice, meek boy

Yeah, well, Theaetetus will understand these culture-creating dynamics when he/she gets older.

Yeah, that must be it. Anyone who says "we shouldn't condone sexual assault" must be a child whose opinion will change as they grow up. Ha, ha, children sure are weird.


I think it's more that children put words in people's mouths and fight with straw-men.
 
2013-06-20 12:52:00 AM
The discussion of "Coy" above reminds me of this clip by Louis C.K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hNaFkbZYU
 
2013-06-20 12:52:15 AM

Mr. Pokeylope: Skywolf the Scribbler: Well that's wonderful ... if you're into hump n dump casual sex. I'd much prefer a meaningful relationship with one person who is right for me when the time is right.

...and this is why you are still a virgin Mr. Sensitive.


Sensitivity can get you laid to. Just dont also be ugly.
 
2013-06-20 12:53:22 AM

torusXL: Theaetetus: torusXL: F42: because asking for permission to kiss her is sure to make the ladies say yes

nothing they lovemore than a nice, meek boy

Yeah, well, Theaetetus will understand these culture-creating dynamics when he/she gets older.

Yeah, that must be it. Anyone who says "we shouldn't condone sexual assault" must be a child whose opinion will change as they grow up. Ha, ha, children sure are weird.

I think it's more that children put words in people's mouths and fight with straw-men.


You mean like "Theaetetus will understand these culture-creating dynamics when he/she gets older"? I agree. That's pretty despicable behavior. I would hope that whomever said that eventually grows out of it and begins having adult discussions with others.
 
2013-06-20 12:53:43 AM
I know when I want dating advice, I go to FARK.
 
2013-06-20 12:59:02 AM

Theaetetus: You mean like "Theaetetus will understand these culture-creating dynamics when he/she gets older"? I agree. That's pretty despicable behavior. I would hope that whomever said that eventually grows out of it and begins having adult discussions with others.


This is getting far too meta for me. I'm not sure how you being too young to understand things is despicable behavior. There's a simple solution though, just wait until you're older and are able to follow complex dynamics.

Look, think of it like this, it's much more simple for you: I'm raping your straw-men!!

(the straw really chafes, to tell the truth)
 
2013-06-20 12:59:12 AM
God dangit if that does not remind me of the story my momma always told me of how she an pa met.  I sure would like to meet him too.... though with a little less beer breath on my shoulder.
 
2013-06-20 01:14:21 AM

LiberalWeenie: Whenever I hear about men like this, I wonder if they started out that way or they were rejected by women so many times that they became misogynists.


You know, a lot of my friends have had a thing about rejection, and I've had to talk to them about it to keep them from going this way.  It boils down to brain chemistry.  Being rejected can have intense effects on the brain, with dopamine and cortisol levels being shifted significantly, possibly even causing physical pain.  It can lead to aggressiveness and antisocial behavior as the person feels attacked simply by a person not being interested.

An individual who is already very self-centered, unable to see why someone might not be interested (perhaps they are attractive in general, but not specifically to that person, or that person has an interest in someone else, or even they themselves may be too soon off of their own rejection to show interest in anyone else, etc.), might fail to recognize and squelch these tendencies and it can give rise to problems down the road as the rejections and failures build.  Since everything is about them and how they feel, clearly those people who reject them are acting in such a manner as to demean or belittle them.  The result being that they believe the general, "Hey, would you like to go out monday night?" approach needs to be changed to, "Hey, cumdumpster, dinner on monday.  I'll f*ck you soon."

You know, because a guy on the internet wrote a book and claimed to have over 9000 sex partners.
 
2013-06-20 01:45:15 AM

torusXL: Look, think of it like this, it's much more simple for you: I'm raping your straw-men!!


You're sure representing yourself well in this thread.
 
2013-06-20 03:23:11 AM

asdfbeau: normally i wouldn't get in the way of a fark lynching, but after spending a little time reading what the guy's trying to publish, it looks like he's actually trying to teach guys not to be self-centered assholes.


Which would be great if women hadn't been socialised to not make a fuss, and to just smile and put up with shiat.

His assumption is that if he backs a girl up against a wall and starts feeling her up she will feel able to say "no stop" if she doesn't like it.

Listen to the actual accounts of women who have experienced non-violent sexual assault in public, and you will find many felt entirely unable to protest, they were just paralysed, scared and ashamed.


F42: because asking for permission to kiss her is sure to make the ladies say yes

nothing they lovemore than a nice, meek boy


You're an unimaginative arsehole.  It actually is quite hot/romantic for a guy to say how desperately he wants to kiss you and stare longingly into your eyes and say "can I?"

Anyway gaining consent for a kiss can be as simple as waiting for her to close the final half-inch gap between your lips and hers.
 
2013-06-20 05:07:10 AM

LiberalWeenie: Whenever I hear about men like this, I wonder if they started out that way or they were rejected by women so many times that they became misogynists.

Like all men, I've been rejected a lot. In online dating, more than 100 times in the past year. I'm still a sweet guy, but I could see how some men might become angry and how some might succumb to that anger.


How the fark can you be rejected like over 100 times in a year @ online dating. Are you counting girls that you approach online that just say "No thanks", or are you counting actual dates? Because if it's the former, then you need to reassess what your definition of rejection is, if it's the later then... well I dunno, maybe you need to see a life coach or something.
 
2013-06-20 05:28:19 AM

if_i_really_have_to: asdfbeau: normally i wouldn't get in the way of a fark lynching, but after spending a little time reading what the guy's trying to publish, it looks like he's actually trying to teach guys not to be self-centered assholes.

Which would be great if women hadn't been socialised to not make a fuss, and to just smile and put up with shiat.

His assumption is that if he backs a girl up against a wall and starts feeling her up she will feel able to say "no stop" if she doesn't like it.

Listen to the actual accounts of women who have experienced non-violent sexual assault in public, and you will find many felt entirely unable to protest, they were just paralysed, scared and ashamed.


F42: because asking for permission to kiss her is sure to make the ladies say yes

nothing they lovemore than a nice, meek boy

You're an unimaginative arsehole.  It actually is quite hot/romantic for a guy to say how desperately he wants to kiss you and stare longingly into your eyes and say "can I?"

Anyway gaining consent for a kiss can be as simple as waiting for her to close the final half-inch gap between your lips and hers.


Hate to point this out - but your argument is the same argument that other cultures and religions use to repress women. Essentially, they infantilize them to the point where they become incapable of making their own decisions, or that is the way that they are viewed by the culture/religion in question..

Just flip the argument you are making and apply it to men. Would it be laughable to say that men cannot control their reactions towards sex and sexual behavior because they have been conditioned by society to act otherwise? Or would we say that men have a responsibility as thinking beings to make decisions for themselves about what constitutes their own sexual behavior (certainly the law views it this way for both genders...)

Real tools of oppression are things like shaming, beatings and laws. You see this in many places in the world - not so much in our first world western societies and definitely not ever applied to a woman who slap a man for getting fresh with her (to borrow the olden vernacular).

To sum up - women are not children because they have vaginas and treating them as such is anti-feminist. All people regardless of gender have the responsibility to know what is acceptable behavior both towards themselves and towards others and to react appropriately. I believe that this is a message that we are currently pushing quite hard (and have for many years) and I fully support it. Excusing people for not following up on this behavior isn't actually helping at all. The expectation should be that you will know what is right for you in how you are treated as well as in how you treat others and be respectful of yourself and other people and violating this should be dealt with immediately and vocally.
 
2013-06-20 07:24:51 AM
I would like to propose an adjustment to the title:

"How to Get Men"
 
2013-06-20 07:30:32 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: js34603: Quantum Apostrophe: It's pretty funny. Convinced me more than ever that most couples are just together for convenience.

Forever alone.

You're alone too. You're just with someone that happened to be less effort than someone else to get.


Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the actual definition of the word "alone"?
 
2013-06-20 07:49:07 AM

torusXL: Having lines drawn, even by a douche bag and his sly book, is better than nothing, especially if we're talking about safety.


The issue is that, in the real world, this book's advice requires you to tromp over the  actual lines that we've drawn. Much of the advice people are quoting depends on the premise that anything you do is okay  until you hear "no". That's wrong, and it's wrong for many reasons, but for starters- you've already crossed the lines of respectful and responsible conduct. You don't touch people without their permission. Period. It need not be  explicit permission, and this is where people need to develop and understand social behavior. There is a whole spectrum of non-verbal communication that carries the vast majority of our social interactions.

torusXL: Until we live in a world where both genders participate equally in sexual encounters


Hey, that is the world I live in. Why would I waste my time with a sexual partner who isn't an equal participant?
 
2013-06-20 08:22:29 AM
This is a strategy guide that treats sex like it's a video game, and women as NPCs.

Consent means she says yes, not that she doesn't say no.
 
2013-06-20 08:35:16 AM

poot_rootbeer: This is a strategy guide that treats sex like it's a video game, and women as NPCs.


It's a different currency, but the idea is the same: women are vending machines, and if you put the correct change in, sex falls out. When sex does not fall out, it is obviously jammed up there, and men are right to get upset, in the same way that you'd get upset when the machine refuses to give you the Funyuns that you rightfully purchased.
 
2013-06-20 09:15:12 AM

t3knomanser: Theaetetus: or physically shoves him away, and he tells them to continue after a slight pause.

Well "later" doesn't mean a "short pause", it just means later. I like the emphasis on that, personally. It demonstrates that the only value a woman has is for sex, at least in his mind.

Also "escalate until you're told no" is still a recipe for sexual assault. "Escalate" a little bit, and see what the response is. Don't just start shoving your hands into people's personal space.


Maybe theres something to it for the types who like a challenge, but if your just trying to get your stick wet...dont waste your time with resistance...there are plenty of girls who are practically giving it away.
 
2013-06-20 09:53:51 AM

bigdanc: I can tell you from experience that you're setting yourself up, horribly, with that type of attitude.


I sincerely doubt that.
 
2013-06-20 11:34:33 AM

ZAZ: First step, ask her out and treat her like a lady.
Second step, tell her she's the one you're dreaming of.
Third step, make her grab your dick and lever let it go.
Don't you know step by step, step by step, you'll win her love.


You magnificent bastard.  Coffee has been spewed.
 
2013-06-20 12:03:35 PM

Sandwyrm: LiberalWeenie: Whenever I hear about men like this, I wonder if they started out that way or they were rejected by women so many times that they became misogynists.

Like all men, I've been rejected a lot. In online dating, more than 100 times in the past year. I'm still a sweet guy, but I could see how some men might become angry and how some might succumb to that anger.

Or possibly seeing others burned.  Being in the military, I've seen so many marriages and relationships soured due to infidelity (granted, on both sides, but more often initiated by the females), it's easy to extrapolate where the hate comes from.  It's so endemic on base that:

1) you know when a battallion just left base when you see a rush of traffic to the on-base housing
2) Post-deployment briefings are given before you reach home, always with the admonition that a call 30 minutes before arriving has saved many marriages.

I won't lie, after all I've seen, I simply don't trust anyone in a relationship.  However, others might have different reactions.


Mop on the doorstep. Navy wife code for "Fark me senseless. The old man is away."

amiright?
 
2013-06-20 12:24:48 PM

Sultan Of Herf: there are plenty of girls who are practically giving it away.


Not to the unfarkables who think reading this book will solve their unfarkability problems, they're not.
 
2013-06-20 01:22:46 PM

torusXL: F42: because asking for permission to kiss her is sure to make the ladies say yes

nothing they lovemore than a nice, meek boy

Yeah, well, Theaetetus will understand these culture-creating dynamics when he/she gets older.


*readies the pepper spray*
 
2013-06-20 02:50:49 PM

Theaetetus: That's pretty despicable behavior. I would hope that whomever said that eventually grows out of it and begins having adult discussions with others.


if you wanted to have an adult discussion you wouldn't simply read quotes presented to you and then label people rapists (or rape-professors).
the guy's probably a misogynist, and what he wrote is really simplistic and cliche, but it isn't teaching anyone to be a rapist
 
2013-06-20 07:06:25 PM

TwistedFark: LiberalWeenie: Whenever I hear about men like this, I wonder if they started out that way or they were rejected by women so many times that they became misogynists.

Like all men, I've been rejected a lot. In online dating, more than 100 times in the past year. I'm still a sweet guy, but I could see how some men might become angry and how some might succumb to that anger.

How the fark can you be rejected like over 100 times in a year @ online dating. Are you counting girls that you approach online that just say "No thanks," or are you counting actual dates? Because if it's the former, then you need to reassess what your definition of rejection is, if it's the later then... well I dunno, maybe you need to see a life coach or something.


It's the former, and it's not like I'm deliberately counting. Many sites ask you to contact X number of people as a way of encouraging you to get out there and find success.

I've only actually gotten "no thanks" replies once or twice. The norm is to get no response at all. Rarely, the message is even deleted without being read.

If it's not a rejection, I'm not sure what else you'd call it. Taking a pass? An offer was made, and it was rejected. What difference does it make if there is no face-to-face contact?
 
2013-06-20 08:55:29 PM

js34603: asdfbeau: the quote comes from a section explicitly labeled Sex, which after the section on fondling, which is after the section on kissing, which is after the section on knowing the right time and place.
and before the section on kissing is:
"
IMPORTANT NOTE ON RESISTANCE:

If at any point a girl wants you to stop, she will let you know. If she says "STOP," or "GET AWAY FROM ME," or shoves you away, you know she is not interested. It happens. Stop escalating immediately and say this line:

"No problem. I don't want you to do anything you aren't comfortable with."

Memorize that line. It is your go-to when faced with resistance. Say it genuinely, without presumption. All master seducers are also masters at making women feel comfortable. You'll be no different.  If a woman isn't comfortable, take a break and try again later.

All that matters is that you continue to try to escalate physically until she makes it genuinely clear that it's not happening. She wants to be desired, but the circumstances need to be right. With some experience, you will learn to differentiate the  "No, we can't... my parents are in the next room... OMG fark ME fark ME HARD" from the"SERIOUSLY GET THE fark OFF OF ME, YOU CREEP" variety of resistance.

Of course if you're really unclear, back off. Better safe than sorry.
"
normally i wouldn't get in the way of a fark lynching, but after spending a little time reading what the guy's trying to publish, it looks like he's actually trying to teach guys not to be self-centered assholes.

You came in way too late with the facts, sorry. Minds are already made up, lynching accomplished.


he deleted that part.  the rest of it was cached.  keep up
 
2013-06-20 11:56:02 PM

t3knomanser: The issue is that, in the real world, this book's advice requires you to tromp over the actual lines that we've drawn. Much of the advice people are quoting depends on the premise that anything you do is okay until you hear "no". That's wrong, and it's wrong for many reasons, but for starters- you've already crossed the lines of respectful and responsible conduct. You don't touch people without their permission. Period. It need not be explicit permission, and this is where people need to develop and understand social behavior. There is a whole spectrum of non-verbal communication that carries the vast majority of our social interactions.


It absolutely should be explicit because everyone has different levels of ability to comprehend non-verbal communication. Ever heard of the limiting case of inability to understand non-verbal signals, non-verbal learning disorder? Probably not, because it's a disorder that's not well known and the sufferers deal with a huge amount of stigma. An extremely high person on my list of best people in my life was born with NLD, and I've learned more about communication from this person, who is actually labeled as being bad at it, than from any other person in the world.

Do you know how I've learned that much about communication from someone who lacks in it than someone like you? Because people like you make assumptions that you are fully understood at all times, instead of actually working towards building a more communicative world.
 
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