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(The Union Leader)   Bloomberg gun-control group's list of victims of gun violence includes ...Tamerlan Tsarnaev, one of the Boston bombers   (unionleader.com) divider line 80
    More: Fail, Douglas A-20 Havoc, gun violence, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, New Hampshire Union Leader, Sandy Hook Elementary, Hooksett, John Cantin, Mayor of New York City  
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566 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Jun 2013 at 5:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-19 02:05:44 PM  
 
2013-06-19 02:22:15 PM  
What a douche!
I hope he meets his maker while choking on a veggie burger.
 
wee
2013-06-19 02:37:40 PM  
The Little Tykes mayor can go fark himself sideways.
 
2013-06-19 02:38:46 PM  
They were talking on This Week about how Bloomberg's ad campaign is hurting the politicians it's trying to elect. Who would have thought people from flyover country would react negatively to some NY city billionaire telling them how to vote on guns?
 
2013-06-19 03:04:11 PM  
Trying to save lives. The nerve of that uppity new yorker.
 
2013-06-19 03:29:19 PM  

johnryan51: Trying to save lives. The nerve of that uppity new yorker.


Saving them from being killed by the government?
 
2013-06-19 04:48:57 PM  

johnryan51: Trying to save lives. The nerve of that uppity new yorker.


Him and the NSA - keeping us safe.
 
2013-06-19 04:50:15 PM  
He's also on the lists of AAA and the NTSB of people who have been run over by cars.
 
2013-06-19 04:56:45 PM  

Triumph: They were talking on This Week about how Bloomberg's ad campaign is hurting the politicians it's trying to elect. Who would have thought people from flyover country would react negatively to some NY city billionaire telling them how to vote on guns?


Mayor Wall Street is using gun control as cover.  The four Democrats he's targeting for their gun votes on Harry Reid's expanded background check (and narrowly redefining the places you're allowed to let people borrow your gun) bill all oppose privatizing Social Security, and the Republicans that will replace them if they are "Tea Partied" out of their seats in the primaries (should Bloomberg's campaign be successful) certainly won't be.

Bloomberg is Mitt Romney in nicer, eco-friendly packaging.
 
2013-06-19 05:30:11 PM  
This means that gun control is stupid and that everyone should have AR-15s, because cocained-up Boars and because... reasons.
 
2013-06-19 05:33:10 PM  

justtray: This means that gun control is stupid and that everyone should have AR-15s, because cocained-up Boars and because... reasons.


I think it just makes MAIG a propaganda outlet, with Bloomberg et al. being the mouthpiece...
 
2013-06-19 05:44:33 PM  
This puts Bloomberg at odds with the Mayors Against Illegal Kitchenware.

Actually I read a couple days ago that Bloomberg has unveiled a plan to require NYC residents to compost their food waste... I mean, composting is awesome if you live in the middle of nowhere like I do. But I'd assume NYC has enough rats, flies, and already stinks aplenty.
 
2013-06-19 05:46:16 PM  
Hurr Bloomberg banned my Big Gulp so fark him and his gun control nanny state
DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
 
2013-06-19 05:49:32 PM  
 
2013-06-19 05:51:02 PM  
 
2013-06-19 05:51:18 PM  

violentsalvation: This puts Bloomberg at odds with the Mayors Against Illegal Kitchenware.

Actually I read a couple days ago that Bloomberg has unveiled a plan to require NYC residents to compost their food waste... I mean, composting is awesome if you live in the middle of nowhere like I do. But I'd assume NYC has enough rats, flies, and already stinks aplenty.


I'd like to see the details of his plan, as it probably makes sense, even though your explaination doesn't.

We do it here in Philadelphia: solid waste is composted at our sewage treatment plant and sold as fertilizer for non-food crops.  So the Water Deptartment gives incentives for people buying kitchen waste dispolals, as it puts organic matter into a waste stream where it gets recycled and keeps it out of landfills.
 
2013-06-19 05:52:06 PM  

violentsalvation: This puts Bloomberg at odds with the Mayors Against Illegal Kitchenware.

Actually I read a couple days ago that Bloomberg has unveiled a plan to require NYC residents to compost their food waste... I mean, composting is awesome if you live in the middle of nowhere like I do. But I'd assume NYC has enough rats, flies, and already stinks aplenty.


TrollingForColumbine: san francisco did it  http://www.sfenvironment.org/article/recycling-and-composting/mandato r y-recycling-and-composting-ordinance
http://www.sfenvironment.org/article/recycling-and-composting/mandato r y-recycling-and-composting-ordinance

 
/doh
 
2013-06-19 05:56:39 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Alex Katz, the deputy communications director for Mayors Against Illegal Guns and Bloomberg's office, apologized for the inclusion.

. "He was absolutely not a victim, ."


Except of course he was a victim. He was killed by a gun; that makes him a victim of gun violence in the literal meaning of those terms. Nothing in the phrase "victim of gun violence" implies that one must be a victim of a crime.

So not only is the mayor a liar, he is a liar for political expediency.
 
2013-06-19 06:01:03 PM  

worlddan: that makes him a victim of gun violence in the literal meaning of those terms


How can a perpetrator of violence be a victim of it in any way?

You ain't thinking straight.
 
2013-06-19 06:01:44 PM  
Was Oswald on that list, too? How about Platt and Matix? Matasereanu and Phillips? Oooooh, I know, Klebold and Harris! Hell, Brenda Ann Spencer didn't even get shot, she was the shooter. Victim!
 
2013-06-19 06:03:07 PM  

Fark It: Triumph: They were talking on This Week about how Bloomberg's ad campaign is hurting the politicians it's trying to elect. Who would have thought people from flyover country would react negatively to some NY city billionaire telling them how to vote on guns?

Mayor Wall Street is using gun control as cover.  The four Democrats he's targeting for their gun votes on Harry Reid's expanded background check (and narrowly redefining the places you're allowed to let people borrow your gun) bill all oppose privatizing Social Security, and the Republicans that will replace them if they are "Tea Partied" out of their seats in the primaries (should Bloomberg's campaign be successful) certainly won't be.

Bloomberg is Mitt Romney in nicer, eco-friendly packaging.


FALSE FLAG!
 
2013-06-19 06:03:36 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Alex Katz, the deputy communications director for Mayors Against Illegal Guns and Bloomberg's office, apologized for the inclusion.

"Mayors Against Illegal Guns relied on the public list compiled by Slate.com entitled 'How Many People Have Been Killed by Guns Since Newtown?', and his name was on the list," Katz said in an email. "He was absolutely not a victim, his name should have been deleted before the list was provided to a family member for reading and his name should never have been read. It was a mistake, it should not have happened and we sincerely apologize."


He will never make it in politics going round apologising without avoiding actually apologising. Amateur.
 
2013-06-19 06:05:15 PM  

whidbey: worlddan: that makes him a victim of gun violence in the literal meaning of those terms

How can a perpetrator of violence be a victim of it in any way?


Well, in this particular case, someone who sets off a bomb can later be shot.
 
2013-06-19 06:05:53 PM  

whidbey: How can a perpetrator of violence be a victim of it in any way?


When a SWAT team kicks in the door to a house where someone might be holding a couple pounds of weed and one of the cops gets shot, is that cop a victim?

I agree with you, obviously not.
 
2013-06-19 06:07:59 PM  

Triumph: They were talking on This Week about how Bloomberg's ad campaign is hurting the politicians it's trying to elect. Who would have thought people from flyover country would react negatively to some NY city billionaire telling them how to vote on guns?


The British tried something similar in 2004, and it backfired spectacularly.
 
2013-06-19 06:16:42 PM  

whidbey: worlddan: that makes him a victim of gun violence in the literal meaning of those terms

How can a perpetrator of violence be a victim of it in any way?

You ain't thinking straight.


No, you're simply ignorant. Victim: "one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent "

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victim

This is why we speak of a victim of a crime. I agree that he was not a victim of a crime. But he was in fact a victim of gun violence. They are not the same thing.
 
2013-06-19 06:23:19 PM  

worlddan: whidbey: worlddan: that makes him a victim of gun violence in the literal meaning of those terms

How can a perpetrator of violence be a victim of it in any way?

You ain't thinking straight.

No, you're simply ignorant. Victim: "one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent "

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victim

This is why we speak of a victim of a crime. I agree that he was not a victim of a crime. But he was in fact a victim of gun violence. They are not the same thing.


In the context of gun politics your point is completely off base, even if it is textbook correct. You're making a semantic argument for the sake of being obtuse, and why? We all know what it means, this isn't an ambiguous thing.
 
2013-06-19 06:28:14 PM  
Wow, well then... I guess it's free guns for everyone then.

/FFS
 
2013-06-19 06:30:38 PM  

whidbey: worlddan: that makes him a victim of gun violence in the literal meaning of those terms

How can a perpetrator of violence be a victim of it in any way?

You ain't thinking straight.


Because if only the government had guns, there would be absolutely no violence of any sort.  DUH!
 
2013-06-19 06:34:02 PM  

worlddan: But he was in fact a victim of gun violence. They are not the same thing.


A policeman shooting a perpetrator isn't "gun violence" and you know it.
 
2013-06-19 06:39:23 PM  

whidbey: worlddan: But he was in fact a victim of gun violence. They are not the same thing.

A policeman shooting a perpetrator isn't "gun violence" and you know it.


Considering the number of cases of police coverups for excessive force we see, I would have to disagree.
 
2013-06-19 06:41:29 PM  
Colorado State Senate President and Michael Bloomberg biatch John Morse, faces first recall election in Colorado state history, Link
 
2013-06-19 06:44:32 PM  

OgreMagi: whidbey: worlddan: But he was in fact a victim of gun violence. They are not the same thing.

A policeman shooting a perpetrator isn't "gun violence" and you know it.

Considering the number of cases of police coverups for excessive force we see, I would have to disagree.


It's a good thing MAIG and other gun control advocates who count police shootings as "gun violence" don't endorse/write legislation that has gaping exemptions and loopholes for law enforcement (including off-duty and retired).  Otherwise they'd be hypocrites....
 
2013-06-19 06:45:33 PM  

OgreMagi: whidbey: worlddan: But he was in fact a victim of gun violence. They are not the same thing.

A policeman shooting a perpetrator isn't "gun violence" and you know it.

Considering the number of cases of police coverups for excessive force we see, I would have to disagree.


Even if that were true, it would be abuse of power.

Gun violence by its very nature is done by criminals.
 
2013-06-19 06:46:01 PM  

whidbey: worlddan: But he was in fact a victim of gun violence. They are not the same thing.

A policeman shooting a perpetrator isn't "gun violence" and you know it.


Adolf Oliver Nipples: this isn't an ambiguous thing


You're correct. It isn't an ambiguous thing. He clearly belongs on that list.

The real issue here is that Slate.com is trying to slant the debate one way so they can wave bogus statistics around about X number of people dying by "gun violence" hoping that no one would question what that term meant, exactly. Instead, their little gambit ensnared one of their supporters and now he is furiously backtracking since they have now been found out. What's sad is that you all are falling for this rhetorical tricks hook line and sinker.

He clearly belongs on that list. They knew that when they made the list. They hoped no one would look. And they got busted. So now they pretend it's an oversight. Shameful.
 
2013-06-19 06:47:15 PM  

violentsalvation: This puts Bloomberg at odds with the Mayors Against Illegal Kitchenware.

Actually I read a couple days ago that Bloomberg has unveiled a plan to require NYC residents to compost their food waste... I mean, composting is awesome if you live in the middle of nowhere like I do. But I'd assume NYC has enough rats, flies, and already stinks aplenty.


It's probably more like a separate trash bin (like what most people have for recycling) that you put out on garbage day and then compost it out in the boonies. They are talking about doing that out here and making the resulting compost free for residents to come and get. We already have the bins it's just that for now we can only toss in yard waste but no food waste. Not even a banana peel. The amount of garbage I put out would probably be cut in half if they allowed it.
 
2013-06-19 06:48:06 PM  
People who die from violent gunshot wounds are victims of gun violence. Unless they're Muslim. Then they don't count, because Jesus and like such as.
 
2013-06-19 06:48:33 PM  

worlddan: The real issue here is that Slate.com is trying to slant the debate one way so they can wave bogus statistics around about X number of people dying by "gun violence" hoping that no one would question what that term meant, exactly. Instead, their little gambit ensnared one of their supporters and now he is furiously backtracking since they have now been found out. What's sad is that you all are falling for this rhetorical tricks hook line and sinker.


What's sad is you've bought into this nontroversy hook line and sinker, actually. Well not "sad," though it is kind of telling.
 
2013-06-19 06:49:51 PM  

whidbey: OgreMagi: whidbey: worlddan: But he was in fact a victim of gun violence. They are not the same thing.

A policeman shooting a perpetrator isn't "gun violence" and you know it.

Considering the number of cases of police coverups for excessive force we see, I would have to disagree.

Even if that were true, it would be abuse of power.

Gun violence by its very nature is done by criminals.


Abuse of power is a crime, ergo, that makes the police doing it criminals.
 
2013-06-19 06:51:09 PM  

whidbey: OgreMagi: whidbey: worlddan: But he was in fact a victim of gun violence. They are not the same thing.

A policeman shooting a perpetrator isn't "gun violence" and you know it.

Considering the number of cases of police coverups for excessive force we see, I would have to disagree.

Even if that were true, it would be abuse of power.

Gun violence by its very nature is done by criminals.


You seem to have your own very special definition of violence.

Bless your heart.
 
2013-06-19 06:54:11 PM  

OgreMagi: Abuse of power is a crime, ergo, that makes the police doing it criminals.


But you seem to think that all police now all fit into this category, or enough that you feel that "gun violence" no longer applies to people outside of law enforcement. A bit biased there.
 
2013-06-19 06:54:26 PM  

whidbey: worlddan: But he was in fact a victim of gun violence. They are not the same thing.

A policeman shooting a perpetrator isn't "gun violence" and you know it.




It can be.
Justified shootings and suicides are often included into gun violence statistics. It wouldn't surprise me if police incidents make it in as well (and such was the case here).

The problem I've found with using "shootings" as a marker for crime is it overlooks why people are getting shot. You end up chasing a symptom of societal breakdown, and while it seems like a meaningful statistic it can only tell you where things have already failed.
We need to understand why it failed.
 
2013-06-19 06:55:02 PM  

The Larch: Gun violence by its very nature is done by criminals.

You seem to have your own very special definition of violence.


Nothing special about it. Yes, I know you probably have it out for the cops, too. They killed your brother. Piotr.
 
2013-06-19 06:58:10 PM  

way south: whidbey: worlddan: But he was in fact a victim of gun violence. They are not the same thing.

A policeman shooting a perpetrator isn't "gun violence" and you know it.

It can be.
Justified shootings and suicides are often included into gun violence statistics. It wouldn't surprise me if police incidents make it in as well (and such was the case here).

The problem I've found with using "shootings" as a marker for crime is it overlooks why people are getting shot. You end up chasing a symptom of societal breakdown, and while it seems like a meaningful statistic it can only tell you where things have already failed.
We need to understand why it failed.


It's to manipulate the statistics to get the answer they want.  Much like the "more likely to shoot a family member or acquaintance than a criminal" statistic.  To get the numbers they wanted for that one, the included the following groups:  criminals and their criminal partners, gang bangers and rival gang members, drug dealers and their customers, taxi drivers and their fares, etc.
 
2013-06-19 07:05:50 PM  

whidbey: OgreMagi: Abuse of power is a crime, ergo, that makes the police doing it criminals.

But you seem to think that all police now all fit into this category, or enough that you feel that "gun violence" no longer applies to people outside of law enforcement. A bit biased there.


Because police who do not report illegal activities by other police are, by definition, engaging in a criminal act.  The blue line exists and needs to be eradicated.
 
2013-06-19 07:14:39 PM  
Definition of VIOLENCE1 : Exertion of physical force so as to injure. Nothing in there about having to be criminal in nature!
 
2013-06-19 07:18:31 PM  
Well I guess all the other people on the list are alive then since this guy didn't belong on the list.
 
2013-06-19 08:13:21 PM  
OgreMagi:
It's to manipulate the statistics to get the answer they want.  Much like the "more likely to shoot a family member or acquaintance than a criminal" statistic.  To get the numbers they wanted for that one, the included the following groups:  criminals and their criminal partners, gang bangers and rival gang members, drug dealers and their customers, taxi drivers and their fares, etc.

Its called 'selection bias' and it farks up a lot of statistics, especially crime. For example, 10% or less of prisoners are non-religious, but that doesn't mean that religious people are more likely to commit crime.
 
2013-06-19 08:14:52 PM  

whidbey: The Larch: Gun violence by its very nature is done by criminals.

You seem to have your own very special definition of violence.

Nothing special about it. Yes, I know you probably have it out for the cops, too. They killed your brother. Piotr.


You poor guy. If you needed help paying for your meds this month, you only had to ask.
 
2013-06-19 08:33:08 PM  

justtray: This means that gun control is stupid and that everyone should have AR-15s, because cocained-up Boars and because... reasons.


An AR... is not actually good for boars.  Unless you're talking about an actual military, fully automatic one and even then... maybe.

I don't know if you've seen a full-sized european boar, ever, but I can assume you don't because you'd be all over the 50-cal from the helicopter technique if you had.  farkers make a stud bull with a herd in heat look like a huggable stuffed bear.

AR-series is usually uses .223/5.56mm ammo by default (if you just go out and buy one blind that's what you'll typically get), which is compatible with vanilla antipersonnel rounds, but antipersonnel rounds are, y'know, just that, and not really sufficient for killing larger animals.  Even using an AR as a base for deer hunting usually involves re-fitting it for, y'know, deer rounds, like .30-30, I don't even know what you'd put on it for a damned boar.  I know Bushmaster has a .45-70 setup that uses the AR platform, maybe that'd at least cause it to stop and look at you funny before trampling you to death?

//Focusing on the AR-15 as a central element of your gun control argument  IS stupid, actually, if you can't tell from the above it's a modular platform that can hold anything from .22LR squirrel rounds to an actual military setup.  The fact that the external parts look similar regardless doesn't make them all the same round, it just means that mass production provides useful economies of scale and there's no reason to make a new differently-patterned stock when the default one you use for everything else works just as well.  Wood-stock rifles all kinda look the same, too.
 
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