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(Opposing Views)   Here's the deal, son: I want you to spend 60 days in jail and really think about the two people you just killed   (opposingviews.com) divider line 76
    More: Asinine, head-on collision, Kansas State University, drunk drivers, Bosch, minimum sentence, jail  
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9897 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jun 2013 at 1:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-19 03:51:14 PM

bbfreak: She's a character in a movie called Another Earth. She has a similar incident while drunk/driving/.


Was she actually drunk in it?  IMDB says she was distracted staring at the alternate earth.
 
2013-06-19 03:55:13 PM

Firethorn: bbfreak: She's a character in a movie called Another Earth. She has a similar incident while drunk/driving/.

Was she actually drunk in it?  IMDB says she was distracted staring at the alternate earth.


Yes, she was drunk. Was celebrating getting into MIT
 
2013-06-19 04:07:31 PM
FTFA:
Bosch said he knew the sentence would be unpopular, but he hoped it would lead Theurer to give up alcohol altogether.

I would bet that life in prison would do a better job of that.

And in any case, even if it does get him to give up alcohol altogether, it sends a message to every other drunk driver in the world that in Kansas, even if you drunk drive AND KILL PEOPLE that your punishment will be not much.

If I was a family member of one of the deceased, I would get good and snockered and then follow that kid around, and when he's out in the open....vroooom....peanut butter.
 
2013-06-19 04:10:02 PM

MonkeyMaster: I actually drive that road to and from work everyday. When the accident happened they were doing (and still are) road construction, taking a divided four lane down to a two lane. And the two lane at the time they were using was the southbound lane. Those two lanes were divided with little orange cones, not the best marker IMHO. I could see how someone with a little impairment (tired/alcohol/crack/road head) could think they were driving in the left hand southbound lane when in fact they were in the northbound lane. Maybe thats what made it atypical.


Ok, that makes more sense.  I've encountered some very confusing lanes in road construction.  If a cone or two gets knocked down where they are shifting the lanes it can be very hard to know.

When you see big downward departures it's usually because while they were drunk the situation likely would have happened anyway had they been sober.

On the other hand I would like to see serious DUI offenses (or a second DUI offense, period) carry a lifetime no-alcohol probation requirement.  You've shown you can't handle it, give it up.
 
2013-06-19 04:15:26 PM
fark this drunk driver -- I don't care if he's a grad student. He choose poorly and 60 days is a slap on the wrist. Manslaughter under the influence of alcohol should carry a minimum sentence of 3 years. This guy just farked up 4 people's live, and probably more just because he decided to have too many drinks and then go for a drive. These stories drive me nuts -- I live in Wisconsin and I hear all the time about farking retards getting 4th, 5th, 6th DUIs... How long before they kill somebody?

*End rant

Stories like these get to me because I've lost a friend to a drunk driver AND had a friend paralyzed from the waist down from a drunk driver -- both separate incidents.
 
2013-06-19 04:20:43 PM

Mr.Poops: Stories like these get to me because I've lost a friend to a drunk driver AND had a friend paralyzed from the waist down from a drunk driver -- both separate incidents.


Really? They were BOTH separate incidents? I'm glad you clarified that, or I may have otherwise concluded that only one of the incidents was separate.
 
2013-06-19 04:25:13 PM

quansem: /and your right, irregardless isn't quite proper English, even if it is in several dictionaries. I just like it better.

Um.. I don't think you should be commenting on the use of proper English...


Irregardless of his unproper use of English, he evertheless, for all intensive porposies, got his point acrossed.
 
2013-06-19 04:34:57 PM
That is 60 days more than a drunk cop gets when he kills two people, so it is indeed a harsh punishment
 
2013-06-19 04:55:07 PM

Somaticasual: Scrounger: Somaticasual: In fairness, at least this one got jailtime. The blond girl in Austin, however, was a travesty of justice. Left the girl to die on the side of the road while she went home and "slept it off" => innocent.

You mean this one?

AUSTIN (KXAN) - Gabrielle Nestande will serve 180 days in jail in the May 2011 hit-and-run death of Courtney Griffin, Judge Karen Sage ruled Monday.
The judge also ruled that the 25-year-old former state Capitol aide must write a letter of apology to the Griffin family and pay a $10,000 fine. Also, if she violates the terms of the 10-year probation -- which includes drinking or taking illegal drugs -- Nestande will go to prison, Sage said.

Yep, nestande. I guess I was unaware she had gotten some sort of probation deal, but in fairness that's still as light of a punishment as she could have gotten.

//granted, fark's resident alchoholics might disagree on the no-drinking punishment front..


I agree on that one.  She got off light.
 
2013-06-19 04:58:13 PM
Yeah, I hate that someones family lost thier son and daughter but have you read the comments in the above linked obit?

"I am a friend of mikes from prison and i have been trhing to locate him."(sic)

Yeah don't think anyone was clean in this.
 
2013-06-19 05:30:49 PM

Piizzadude: 60 days, years or decades?

DAYS?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!

I am against the draconian DUI laws in these here United States, but this should just be a double murder, just as sure as he loaded a gun and fired...


That's what drinking and driving is considered to be in most of the Blue States, but the Conservative Capitol of the US feels otherwise.  I could not even begin to imagine how getting loaded then getting in a car wreck can still be considered an "accident".

Even in Flori-duh, as Faarked up as it may be, the concept of "should have known better" extends to cases like this.  At the very least it's manslaughter.
 
2013-06-19 05:42:58 PM
Good, he'll be easier to get at if he is out of jail.
 
2013-06-19 05:48:46 PM

Turbo Cojones: At the very least it's manslaughter.


That's what he pled to.  It's involuntary manslaughter in most states because if you're going to argue that someone is so drunk they caused the accident, it's difficult to parse out that they were in control enough to commit the crime with malice aforethought.  Actually, absent running someone over or a road rage incident, it's difficult to prove that a person  intended to kill someone by causing a traffic accident, sober or otherwise.  Even worse, since it's well documented that being drunk impairs your judgement, it's very difficult to prove you intended to kill someone when you made the decision to drive, because you were already impaired.

Had he been sober but they could prove he wasn't paying attention to the road, it would have been the same charge.
 
2013-06-19 06:07:54 PM

SheltemDragon: On the one hand, grad student. Theoretically amoung our best and the brightest. So trashing that future due to a reckless moment (I didn't see anything about this being a pattern behavior), irregardless of the damage all ready done is heaping harm on top of harm for society. And yesm the loss of two parents is a great amount of harm.

On the other hand, he was a drunken asshole who was well and truly blitzed.

If I was making the sentence (and the rules in general, I know I am breaking at least two big rules on sentencing here), I'd pull in his academic adviser and ask what the *minimum* amount of time it should take him to finish his degree is. Sentence him to house arrest for that period (with allowance to go to classes and graduate work), and put him on monitored work probation for the next ten years after with the condition that he must be continually employed in a position making at least 40% of median for his profession and remitting at least 30% of his wages to pay any resulting civil liability findings. If he's out of work involuntarily or under amount for more then 60 days, to jail. If he doesn't finish his degree on time, to jail. If he get in trouble again, for anything, to jail.

make it so he still has a future, even if it is basically at gun point, so he can provide the children of the people he negligently killed with one.


i'm thinking there might have been a point here, but I stopped reading at IRREGARDLESS !
 
2013-06-19 06:18:53 PM

gfid: labman: 60 whole days. Wow.

How about this, chop off one of his hands and tell him if he's ever caught drinking and driving, he loses the other one.

Move to Saudi Arabia.

If he had crossed over the center line while sober you'd be saying what a tragedy it must be for this young man to have to live with knowing he killed 2 people.

What the linked article fails to mention is that this was a plea bargain.  It also fails to mention that it occurred in a construction zone which caused opposing lanes of traffic to be right next to each other.   And what of his 3 passengers? Should they not bear some responsibility too?

And of course, his sentence is not just 60 days.  There's more to it than that.

/just playing devil's advocate.


No, not at all. Unless he was forced to drive at gunpoint, then no. You are the captain of your ship (plane, train, boat or auto). You bear the ultimate responsibility of being in command. The judge should get 60 days for issuing that slap-in-the-face of a sentence.
 
2013-06-19 06:41:09 PM
It's a good thing he didn't have a bag of weed.
 
2013-06-19 07:17:49 PM
Guy here in the Florida Keys just got 30 years for a double DUI-manslaughter. Took three years to get through the system, but he's finally gone.
 
2013-06-19 07:56:55 PM
Meh, I have trouble getting pissed about a graduate student getting a light sentence, especially if he's never done anything before. Just by being a graduate student, he proves himself more capable than most, and he isn't getting off with just the 60 days, either. Also, as others have noted, it was a poorly-marked construction area where it happened, so there was also state negligence for not clearly marking the lanes of traffic.

If we're going to get a judgy on the people he killed, they had several children out of wedlock and were engaged. Maybe he just killed some white trash, and it was no big loss until the headlines hit.
 
2013-06-19 08:10:53 PM

Vector R: Meh, I have trouble getting pissed about a graduate student getting a light sentence, especially if he's never done anything before. Just by being a graduate student, he proves himself more capable than most, and he isn't getting off with just the 60 days, either. Also, as others have noted, it was a poorly-marked construction area where it happened, so there was also state negligence for not clearly marking the lanes of traffic.

If we're going to get a judgy on the people he killed, they had several children out of wedlock and were engaged. Maybe he just killed some white trash, and it was no big loss until the headlines hit.


Your post reminds me of an episode of Judging Amy, a show about a juvie judge, that was far better than it ever got credit for being. An ivy league bound, shiny clean white boy from a solid upper class family killed a homeless crazy man during some youthful hijinks. He had character letters from some very impressive people. He demonstrated appropriate remorse. It was only a homeless crazy man; did us all a favor, really. Everyone including the judge was all set to give him a slap on the wrist and wish him a fine life, until the prosecutor made one hell of a closing argument. It seems that "all men are created equal" means that in the eyes of the court, the life of that homeless, crazy man who would never have contributed to society is worth exactly no less, or more, than that sparkly Harvard bound rising star.

So you can argue that the lane change was not well marked, and that the accident may have happened anyway. The argument that he deserves a slap on the wrist followed by a pat on the head because he's better than the people he killed, however, is bullshiat.
 
2013-06-19 08:25:13 PM

SheltemDragon: On the one hand, grad student. Theoretically amoung our best and the brightest. So trashing that future due to a reckless moment (I didn't see anything about this being a pattern behavior), irregardless of the damage all ready done is heaping harm on top of harm for society. And yesm the loss of two parents is a great amount of harm.

On the other hand, he was a drunken asshole who was well and truly blitzed.

If I was making the sentence (and the rules in general, I know I am breaking at least two big rules on sentencing here), I'd pull in his academic adviser and ask what the *minimum* amount of time it should take him to finish his degree is. Sentence him to house arrest for that period (with allowance to go to classes and graduate work), and put him on monitored work probation for the next ten years after with the condition that he must be continually employed in a position making at least 40% of median for his profession and remitting at least 30% of his wages to pay any resulting civil liability findings. If he's out of work involuntarily or under amount for more then 60 days, to jail. If he doesn't finish his degree on time, to jail. If he get in trouble again, for anything, to jail.

make it so he still has a future, even if it is basically at gun point, so he can provide the children of the people he negligently killed with one.


After this conviction, he's probably going to be thrown out of his department, his college, and any professional organizations he'd need to actually work in his field. Between that and this showing up on his background check, his career in anything professional is pretty much done.
 
2013-06-19 10:55:35 PM
Speaking of Austin; we also had that ricer who was street racing who wiped out two women at a bus stop on their way to work. He got probation.

Our police chief was outraged at the Nastande sentence, as it happened shortly after the above incident. My buddy is a cop here. He says the ridiculous light sentences in Austin/Travis County are the worst part of his job.
 
2013-06-20 12:54:09 AM

Marcus Aurelius: 1. Be rich.
2. Be white.
3. Hire a damned good lawyer.

That combination will get you out of almost anything.



upload.wikimedia.org

agrees.
 
2013-06-20 11:04:12 AM
What position does he play?
 
2013-06-20 12:08:08 PM

1bad65: Our police chief was outraged at the Nastande sentence, as it happened shortly after the above incident. My buddy is a cop here. He says the ridiculous light sentences in Austin/Travis County are the worst part of his job.


I think that our sentences are, on average, too long.  But yeah, you shouldn't be spending less time behind bars for killing somebody, if being behind bars is appropriate(IE it wasn't a truly unforseeable accident or self defense), than somebody caught with drugs, shoplifting, and the ilk.
 
2013-06-20 07:31:53 PM

bigbobowski: SheltemDragon: On the one hand, grad student. Theoretically amoung our best and the brightest. So trashing that future due to a reckless moment (I didn't see anything about this being a pattern behavior), irregardless of the damage all ready done is heaping harm on top of harm for society. And yesm the loss of two parents is a great amount of harm.

On the other hand, he was a drunken asshole who was well and truly blitzed.

If I was making the sentence (and the rules in general, I know I am breaking at least two big rules on sentencing here), I'd pull in his academic adviser and ask what the *minimum* amount of time it should take him to finish his degree is. Sentence him to house arrest for that period (with allowance to go to classes and graduate work), and put him on monitored work probation for the next ten years after with the condition that he must be continually employed in a position making at least 40% of median for his profession and remitting at least 30% of his wages to pay any resulting civil liability findings. If he's out of work involuntarily or under amount for more then 60 days, to jail. If he doesn't finish his degree on time, to jail. If he get in trouble again, for anything, to jail.

make it so he still has a future, even if it is basically at gun point, so he can provide the children of the people he negligently killed with one.

i'm thinking there might have been a point here, but I stopped reading at IRREGARDLESS !


Hey Pot, you forgot to turn of italics. Love, Kettle.
 
2013-06-20 07:33:52 PM

SheltemDragon: bigbobowski: SheltemDragon: On the one hand, grad student. Theoretically amoung our best and the brightest. So trashing that future due to a reckless moment (I didn't see anything about this being a pattern behavior), irregardless of the damage all ready done is heaping harm on top of harm for society. And yesm the loss of two parents is a great amount of harm.

On the other hand, he was a drunken asshole who was well and truly blitzed.

If I was making the sentence (and the rules in general, I know I am breaking at least two big rules on sentencing here), I'd pull in his academic adviser and ask what the *minimum* amount of time it should take him to finish his degree is. Sentence him to house arrest for that period (with allowance to go to classes and graduate work), and put him on monitored work probation for the next ten years after with the condition that he must be continually employed in a position making at least 40% of median for his profession and remitting at least 30% of his wages to pay any resulting civil liability findings. If he's out of work involuntarily or under amount for more then 60 days, to jail. If he doesn't finish his degree on time, to jail. If he get in trouble again, for anything, to jail.

make it so he still has a future, even if it is basically at gun point, so he can provide the children of the people he negligently killed with one.

i'm thinking there might have been a point here, but I stopped reading at IRREGARDLESS !

Hey Pot, you forgot to turn of italics. Love, Kettle.


"off." damn it so much.
 
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