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(BBC)   Before we all get ahead of ourselves in proclaiming the PS4 the winner of the console wars, Sony would just like to remind everyone that it is still, at heart, incompetent   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 84
    More: Obvious, console wars, Sony, PlayStation, system software  
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5704 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Jun 2013 at 10:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-19 09:34:23 AM
Yeah shook my head when I saw that story.  Sony has won the console "off-season".  I have to give them a 90% chance to carry the day in the next generation.  They should succeed despite themselves.  However, anyone hoping for the utter failure of the XB 1 remember we want completion in the game space and Nintendo is happy playing to their own game that seems to be a generation behind.
 
2013-06-19 09:44:08 AM

Nefarious: Yeah shook my head when I saw that story.  Sony has won the console "off-season".  I have to give them a 90% chance to carry the day in the next generation.  They should succeed despite themselves.  However, anyone hoping for the utter failure of the XB 1 remember we want completion in the game space and Nintendo is happy playing to their own game that seems to be a generation behind.


Sony has a terrible record of screwing up firmware updates. Their typical response is to tell users that its coincidence, and ask them to pay 100+ dollars to fix the problem.

The next generation of consoles will not be won on hardware alone. Sony's UI, firmware, and inline services have always lagged behind MS, and MS looks like they are set to build on the interesting things they've done with the 360 firmware and XBL interface and turn them into a really interesting system with the XB1, despite being panned on the Internet.

I certainly give MS a better than 10% chance at "winning" this gen of consoles.
 
2013-06-19 09:51:15 AM

Nefarious: Yeah shook my head when I saw that story.  Sony has won the console "off-season".  I have to give them a 90% chance to carry the day in the next generation.  They should succeed despite themselves.  However, anyone hoping for the utter failure of the XB 1 remember we want completion in the game space and Nintendo is happy playing to their own game that seems to be a generation behind.


You should be blaming Microsoft for the fears of a zero-competition game market. Every choice they've made has been for the benefit of the publishers. They developed such an ego after the last generation that they honestly believe they could shove a turd into the 2nd HDMI port on the XB1 and their "loyal" fans will still buy it. Sony didn't have to do anything except say "We aren't doing what Microsoft is" and they won.

I don't want the XB1 to fail, but I do want it to suffer enough that it makes Microsoft rethink all their shiatty ideas.
 
2013-06-19 09:59:19 AM

Elegy: Nefarious: Yeah shook my head when I saw that story.  Sony has won the console "off-season".  I have to give them a 90% chance to carry the day in the next generation.  They should succeed despite themselves.  However, anyone hoping for the utter failure of the XB 1 remember we want completion in the game space and Nintendo is happy playing to their own game that seems to be a generation behind.

Sony has a terrible record of screwing up firmware updates. Their typical response is to tell users that its coincidence, and ask them to pay 100+ dollars to fix the problem.

The next generation of consoles will not be won on hardware alone. Sony's UI, firmware, and inline services have always lagged behind MS, and MS looks like they are set to build on the interesting things they've done with the 360 firmware and XBL interface and turn them into a really interesting system with the XB1, despite being panned on the Internet.

I certainly give MS a better than 10% chance at "winning" this gen of consoles.


I'd give them anywhere from 5% (Amazon)

s1.ibtimes.com

Up to 12% (Gamespot/Twitter)

Rumors are PS4 is outpacing XB1 in preorders 3:2 in America which is pretty much the only market they really focus on. If Sony can beat them here, they will beat them everywhere.
 
2013-06-19 10:00:13 AM
Stupid unfetchable Amazon Poll:

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 10:30:47 AM

scottydoesntknow: Stupid unfetchable Amazon Poll:


I'd give them a better chance than the Amazon poll, certainly. I think they've mismanaged the message on this release, and let things like the negative press on the checkins slide by without aggressively pointing out the they will be letting users loan out digital copies of the games, which no other major service lets you do. Sony has also walked back its "no fees on used disks" to "we're letting the publishers decide," which is the exact same thing MS has said - the only difference is Sony knew when to shut up and MS let the bad press and outrage get ahead of them.

So I think the bad press is a handicap, but not a death blow for the XB1. A lot of it is going to depend on online services after the launch, as both MS and Sony are charging for online multiplayer this go round. And MS is ahead of the game there, and it has always had a better grasp on things like updates (MS cumulative, Sony sequential) and software design, not to mention MS already has a paying customer base that won't be outraged when asked to pay for online multiplayer.

So on the one hand, Sony has the hardware but a terrible track record on software and online services. On the other, MS has a fantastic record on software and online services, but a terrible record on hardware.

So yeah, I do think it will be a more even battle than people seem to think. Gonna be exciting to watch, in any event.
 
2013-06-19 10:32:37 AM
Funny thing is.. My DreamCast, my PS2, SUper Nintendo, never got an update, and they still work just fine.

Maybe if they'd get their crap together before they ship them out, it might go better for everyone.
 
2013-06-19 10:37:09 AM
In other gaming news... GOG.com has kicked off their "2013 #NoDRM SUMMER SALE"

Today and tomorrow Torchlight is FREE!!
 
2013-06-19 10:39:22 AM
Remember when the Wii won the console wars? Those were good times.
 
2013-06-19 10:39:37 AM

imfallen_angel: Funny thing is.. My DreamCast, my PS2, SUper Nintendo, never got an update, and they still work just fine.

Maybe if they'd get their crap together before they ship them out, it might go better for everyone.


Those consoles never gained new features after launch. The concept of an OS menu didn't even exist for those consoles forchrissake. There wasn't anything TO update.
 
2013-06-19 10:41:26 AM
No one is going to win or lose.  They will all make a product, make a profit, and continue to exist.
 
2013-06-19 10:42:32 AM

imfallen_angel: Funny thing is.. My DreamCast, my PS2, SUper Nintendo, never got an update, and they still work just fine.



What are the given reasons for these updates anyway?
 
2013-06-19 10:43:45 AM

imfallen_angel: Funny thing is.. My DreamCast, my PS2, SUper Nintendo, never got an update, and they still work just fine.

Maybe if they'd get their crap together before they ship them out, it might go better for everyone.


They also never got any additional features or stability fixes after release, save for those baked into new hardware revisions.

Modern folks seem to like a constant stream of new value and stability fixes.  That means new updates all the time.  Sucks, but that's the age we live in, across all electronics.
 
2013-06-19 10:44:07 AM

imfallen_angel: Funny thing is.. My DreamCast, my PS2, SUper Nintendo, never got an update, and they still work just fine.

Maybe if they'd get their crap together before they ship them out, it might go better for everyone.


I'm more OK with a company farking up the software on its product than I am with a company that makes its product do stupid things in exchange for the privilege of them getting more of my money.

In order for the XB1 to work for me, I'd need to hack the shiat out of it, as opposed to a more "traditional" console - "buy (new/used) game, insert game, play game" vs "make sure my shiat has dialed home recently, buy (if new, "copy of"; if used, "DRM-laden-copy of") game, download game, hope DRM doesn't prevent install of game, wait for my shiat to dial home again (and that ComCrap hasn't cut me off for an hour or more for no reason, again), play game".
 
2013-06-19 10:46:26 AM

Burr: In other gaming news... GOG.com has kicked off their "2013 #NoDRM SUMMER SALE"

Today and tomorrow Torchlight is FREE!!


Nice shoutout, despite liking GoG I haven't really been paying attention to them lately.

I'm not really invested in the console wars, but isn't the whole back and forth on this sorta a waste? Near as I can tell, it usually winds up being what games are on that system that ultimately drive a person's purchase decision. It's why Exclusives were so important.
 
2013-06-19 10:48:20 AM
I hate these updates.  I have kids now, so I can't play like I did in college.  So when the stars align and I get some free time to play, I turn on the PS3 and there's a damnable required update that'll take 10 minutes.
 
2013-06-19 10:50:53 AM

Cubicle Jockey: imfallen_angel: Funny thing is.. My DreamCast, my PS2, SUper Nintendo, never got an update, and they still work just fine.


What are the given reasons for these updates anyway?


Because the Xbox 360 and PS3 are more than simple game playing devices, its sorta like asking why Steam or Windows updates itself. (Probably a bit too frequently if you ask me).
 
2013-06-19 10:51:34 AM

scottydoesntknow: You should be blaming Microsoft for the fears of a zero-competition game market. Every choice they've made has been for the benefit of the publishers. They developed such an ego after the last generation that they honestly believe they could shove a turd into the 2nd HDMI port on the XB1 and their "loyal" fans will still buy it. Sony didn't have to do anything except say "We aren't doing what Microsoft is" and they won.

I don't want the XB1 to fail, but I do want it to suffer enough that it makes Microsoft rethink all their shiatty ideas.


Yep.  I have been loyal to MS.  I use windows, have an Xbox and a 360 (and no PS console).  But, they lost me this time, Just like Blizzard lost me with Starcraft 2 and Maxis EA lost me with SimCity (and I have all the Simcity games, from Classic to 4).  What they are doing is bad for the consumer.  They are hiding draconian DRM practices behind a smokescreen of "Cloud Computing".  They are in bed with the publishers.  Sony is forcing the issue on the publishers, saying "Hey, publishers, here are the tools, do with it what you will and the gamers will decide if they approve or not, if you want you game to be always connected to the net, go ahead" and MS is forcing the issue on the gamers and not the publishers by making a blanket statement of  "Here are the tools, and whether publishers use them or not, we are still forcing you to deal with them"

I never get a console on release day, and I won't again this year, but unless MS does a complete 180 and comes back to being consumer friendly and not in the pockets of the publishers, then PS4 it is (of course, I think I might just go back to strictly PC this generation)
 
2013-06-19 10:54:27 AM

stuhayes2010: I hate these updates.  I have kids now, so I can't play like I did in college.  So when the stars align and I get some free time to play, I turn on the PS3 and there's a damnable required update that'll take 10 minutes.


With plus, they download automatically, you just have to install them.  On the ps4, you don't need plus at all to do that.

And yeah, it sucks.  What was worse was when you had a system update, then some massive game patch to download.
 
2013-06-19 10:57:37 AM
Yay! A free gambling game from Sony. While the patch is downloading place your bets on if your PS3 will brick!
 
2013-06-19 10:58:42 AM

Antimatter: And yeah, it sucks.  What was worse was when you had a system update, then some massive game patch to download.


I hate Steam for the same thing, If I grab a new physical copy of a game (rural life, crappy internet, low bandwidth cap) it forces me to download the update before I can play (after I install it from the disk).  This isn't for multiplayer (which I don't play any MP games anymore), it is for single player.


But at least I can turn the game updates off in Steam (just not the "after install" update).
 
2013-06-19 11:09:58 AM

scottydoesntknow: Rumors are PS4 is outpacing XB1 in preorders 3:2 in America which is pretty much the only market they really focus on. If Sony can beat them here, they will beat them everywhere.


Yeah, Sony and Nintendo utterly dominate in Asia. Not sure about Europe overall, but I know that in 2011 the PS3 sold best there.

If Microsoft loses North America, they are pretty hosed.
 
2013-06-19 11:11:05 AM
it's all about the lesser evil

scottydoesntknow: Nefarious: Yeah shook my head when I saw that story.  Sony has won the console "off-season".  I have to give them a 90% chance to carry the day in the next generation.  They should succeed despite themselves.  However, anyone hoping for the utter failure of the XB 1 remember we want completion in the game space and Nintendo is happy playing to their own game that seems to be a generation behind.

You should be blaming Microsoft for the fears of a zero-competition game market. Every choice they've made has been for the benefit of the publishers. They developed such an ego after the last generation that they honestly believe they could shove a turd into the 2nd HDMI port on the XB1 and their "loyal" fans will still buy it. Sony didn't have to do anything except say "We aren't doing what Microsoft is" and they won.

I don't want the XB1 to fail, but I do want it to suffer enough that it makes Microsoft rethink all their shiatty ideas.


Microsoft had great success with the 360 at both skirting by hardware failures and reigning in power over 3rd parties, both had a huge monetary benefit to them hence why their current strategy with the xbone makes no sense to consumers because it was never designed for consumers
 
2013-06-19 11:13:46 AM

Wade_Wilson: scottydoesntknow: Rumors are PS4 is outpacing XB1 in preorders 3:2 in America which is pretty much the only market they really focus on. If Sony can beat them here, they will beat them everywhere.

Yeah, Sony and Nintendo utterly dominate in Asia. Not sure about Europe overall, but I know that in 2011 the PS3 sold best there.

If Microsoft loses North America, they are pretty hosed.


Microsoft does well in the UK, but outside of the UK it's mostly sony/pc land it seems

not to say the xbox brand doesn't sell there, but it's certainly in no position to take over the continent

this is of course with the xbox 360 having huge momentum last generation and being hugely popular, things are different this time and sony won't have as much of an uphill battle like they did with the ps3
 
2013-06-19 11:16:34 AM

Elegy: Sony has a terrible record of screwing up firmware updates. Their typical response is to tell users that its coincidence, and ask them to pay 100+ dollars to fix the problem.


The sad thing is that with our current legal system, Sony would likely win a lawsuit over this.
 
2013-06-19 11:21:41 AM

AdamK: Wade_Wilson: scottydoesntknow: Rumors are PS4 is outpacing XB1 in preorders 3:2 in America which is pretty much the only market they really focus on. If Sony can beat them here, they will beat them everywhere.

Yeah, Sony and Nintendo utterly dominate in Asia. Not sure about Europe overall, but I know that in 2011 the PS3 sold best there.

If Microsoft loses North America, they are pretty hosed.

Microsoft does well in the UK, but outside of the UK it's mostly sony/pc land it seems

not to say the xbox brand doesn't sell there, but it's certainly in no position to take over the continent

this is of course with the xbox 360 having huge momentum last generation and being hugely popular, things are different this time and sony won't have as much of an uphill battle like they did with the ps3


It's weird, but it seems like there are massive 'resets' every console gen.  Anything can happen, past success be damned.
 
2013-06-19 12:28:31 PM

Antimatter: AdamK: Wade_Wilson: scottydoesntknow: Rumors are PS4 is outpacing XB1 in preorders 3:2 in America which is pretty much the only market they really focus on. If Sony can beat them here, they will beat them everywhere.

Yeah, Sony and Nintendo utterly dominate in Asia. Not sure about Europe overall, but I know that in 2011 the PS3 sold best there.

If Microsoft loses North America, they are pretty hosed.

Microsoft does well in the UK, but outside of the UK it's mostly sony/pc land it seems

not to say the xbox brand doesn't sell there, but it's certainly in no position to take over the continent

this is of course with the xbox 360 having huge momentum last generation and being hugely popular, things are different this time and sony won't have as much of an uphill battle like they did with the ps3

It's weird, but it seems like there are massive 'resets' every console gen.  Anything can happen, past success be damned.


that's the nature of the 5-7+ year product cycle - it gives both console makers and consumers plenty of time to re-evaluate and/or completely forget what made them make decisions at the start of the current cycle - so by the time you reach the next series of console launches some console makers will have refocused on what's important and others will have strayed and same goes for consumers - not many consumers are loyal to a console maker themselves as they are to a machine and how can you be loyal to something you don't even own yet? there's nothing to lose in reconsidering which platform you want, so companies that hang their hats and try to build a "berlin wall" around whatever segment of the market they carved up are missing the point and are just going to have a mass exodus of consumers (every 3rd console curse?)
 
2013-06-19 12:30:08 PM
As stupid and incompetent as this was, it does do a very good job of illustrating one of the single biggest problems with the 24 check-in.  MS servers go down for whatever reason and this happens.  Take a good look at the PS forums Microsoft, that is what you're heading for.
 
2013-06-19 12:35:12 PM

Burr: Just like Blizzard lost me with Starcraft 2


the fark?
 
2013-06-19 12:35:51 PM
Great job Sorny.  How the hell do you not catch something like this during testing?

Super, my choices are an incompetent system with lackluster games or a Nazi box that shuts off if MS doesn't like you and probably will RROD.

*sigh, goes back to my 360 to play the backlog of games that I didn't get around to playing.

PanicMan: No one is going to win or lose.  They will all make a product, make a profit, and continue to exist.


Business doesn't always work that way. ;)
 
2013-06-19 12:37:09 PM
 
2013-06-19 12:50:08 PM

Antimatter: AdamK: Wade_Wilson: scottydoesntknow: Rumors are PS4 is outpacing XB1 in preorders 3:2 in America which is pretty much the only market they really focus on. If Sony can beat them here, they will beat them everywhere.

Yeah, Sony and Nintendo utterly dominate in Asia. Not sure about Europe overall, but I know that in 2011 the PS3 sold best there.

If Microsoft loses North America, they are pretty hosed.

Microsoft does well in the UK, but outside of the UK it's mostly sony/pc land it seems

not to say the xbox brand doesn't sell there, but it's certainly in no position to take over the continent

this is of course with the xbox 360 having huge momentum last generation and being hugely popular, things are different this time and sony won't have as much of an uphill battle like they did with the ps3

It's weird, but it seems like there are massive 'resets' every console gen.  Anything can happen, past success be damned.


There are always holdouts that will buy a console no matter what.  Just as there was with the PS3.
Microsofts success was based on being the lower priced system and being more accessible for online play.  Community meant alot, and a portion of that is what will carry them now.  To the point where I don't expect either system will be remembered as a failure in the end.

The question is about what comes next and how to break out of that cyclical reset pattern.
For microsoft, it means going to a cloud based license system. Where old consoles might become obsolete, flameout, or their media disks get lost, a cloud system means you'll never lose your progress, games, or DRM. If X1 takes on a backwards compatibility model similar to the PC ecosystem it wants to emulate, it means locking customers in for the long haul by holding their content and friends lists hostage.

I think Sony will adapt to a similar setup eventually.
The question is if Microsofts players are ready for it now.
 
2013-06-19 12:50:48 PM

Creative Name: Burr: Just like Blizzard lost me with Starcraft 2

the fark?


To be fair, it wasn't just Starcraft 2.  Starcraft 2 brought elements to the table that I didn't care for (breaking the game up into 3 games, requiring an internet connection for single player).

When they continued the trend with Diablo 3, then I pretty much said "fark off Blizzard".  Of course, I grew up with Blizzard games, and when they merged with Activision, it just wasn't the same anymore.
 
2013-06-19 12:51:26 PM

nocturnal001: Great job Sorny.  How the hell do you not catch something like this during testing?

Super, my choices are an incompetent system with lackluster games or a Nazi box that shuts off if MS doesn't like you and probably will RROD.

*sigh, goes back to my 360 to play the backlog of games that I didn't get around to playing.

PanicMan: No one is going to win or lose.  They will all make a product, make a profit, and continue to exist.

Business doesn't always work that way. ;)


if you really feel that way, why not go PC?
 
2013-06-19 12:59:09 PM

Burr: Creative Name: Burr: Just like Blizzard lost me with Starcraft 2

the fark?

To be fair, it wasn't just Starcraft 2.  Starcraft 2 brought elements to the table that I didn't care for (breaking the game up into 3 games, requiring an internet connection for single player).

When they continued the trend with Diablo 3, then I pretty much said "fark off Blizzard".  Of course, I grew up with Blizzard games, and when they merged with Activision, it just wasn't the same anymore.


Oh, you're one of those.

...you do know you don't need an internet connection for single player, right?
 
2013-06-19 01:00:57 PM

AdamK: nocturnal001: Great job Sorny.  How the hell do you not catch something like this during testing?

Super, my choices are an incompetent system with lackluster games or a Nazi box that shuts off if MS doesn't like you and probably will RROD.

*sigh, goes back to my 360 to play the backlog of games that I didn't get around to playing.

PanicMan: No one is going to win or lose.  They will all make a product, make a profit, and continue to exist.

Business doesn't always work that way. ;)

if you really feel that way, why not go PC?


I have a mini ATX that I use as a retro game emulator, and my work laptop that I'll play stuff like minecraft on but even though the pricepoint is not too different building a gaming PC doesn't appeal to me right now.  (too many projects already going on)  I probably have some leftover annoyance from back in the day when I'd buy a new game and realize that it runs like shiat on my machine due to some hardware limitation.

However, I am keeping a close eye on some of the new PC stuff like the Occulus Rift.
 
2013-06-19 01:12:37 PM

Creative Name: Oh, you're one of those.

...you do know you don't need an internet connection for single player, right?


Yeah, I do.  You needed an internet connection for a one shot validation, but then you could play offline.  At the time I didn't like this idea (and I am still not a fan) but since then Steam has moved onto the same model it seems so I have been forced to accept it (while Steam is nice, it still sucks in terms of DRM, and I rarely got games for my PC until I discovered GOG).  Not to mention that I saw the signs with WoW that Blizzard was out to drain every single penny from you for a product that was becoming less then stellar.

When D3 came out and they required a "constant internet connection" to play then I said screw you to Blizzard.
 
2013-06-19 01:19:55 PM

scottydoesntknow: Rumors are PS4 is outpacing XB1 in preorders 3:2 in America which is pretty much the only market they really focus on. If Sony can beat them here, they will beat them everywhere.


The rumor is that Microsoft is counting on XB1 to have immersive tech gadgets announced before Christmas and that there is nothing equivalent for the PS4 in the next year. That would be the only thing that I could see that could help their sales in the near future. More likely, this may be like Windows 8 and just be another hard lesson that Microsoft rarely learns from.
 
2013-06-19 01:28:11 PM

pkellmey: scottydoesntknow: Rumors are PS4 is outpacing XB1 in preorders 3:2 in America which is pretty much the only market they really focus on. If Sony can beat them here, they will beat them everywhere.

The rumor is that Microsoft is counting on XB1 to have immersive tech gadgets announced before Christmas and that there is nothing equivalent for the PS4 in the next year. That would be the only thing that I could see that could help their sales in the near future. More likely, this may be like Windows 8 and just be another hard lesson that Microsoft rarely learns from.


I'd guess it's the Illumiroom that will hook a lot of people back to the One, if they announce it this year.
 
2013-06-19 01:30:50 PM

Cubicle Jockey: imfallen_angel: Funny thing is.. My DreamCast, my PS2, SUper Nintendo, never got an update, and they still work just fine.

What are the given reasons for these updates anyway?


There are bugfixes and tweaks for the overall OS (plus fixing holes in the DRM), plus additions like 3D game and Blu-Ray support, PlayStation Move support that were added post-launch, support for background downloads of games, support for new video services like Vudu and Amazon, and likely some background tweaks that made PlayStation Plus possible.
 
2013-06-19 01:36:34 PM

Cytokine Storm: I'd guess it's the Illumiroom that will hook a lot of people back to the One, if they announce it this year.


When they did it for TVs (though granted it was smaller-scale), it didn't seem to juice numbers for those models.

If, like most people, the wall behind your TV has stuff on it (like in the demo - photos, posters, a running tally of women that have only stayed one hour/night), that becomes wasted space anyway. Your attention is still focused on the same 42" of diagonal space. And even if you clear the wall, you're not going to get 15' of viewable space because the projected graphics likely aren't 1080p and the TV has a bezel (interrupting your field of view).

So, it's a nice idea, I just don't see it as a "Sony-killer".

// also, having only watched enough of the vid to get an idea for the product (~20sec), is that extra hardware you've gotta buy (like Kinect used to be) or will it be shipped with XB1 from the jump and only activated later?
// either way, that doesn't seem like enough value-added to justify
 
2013-06-19 01:37:09 PM

Creative Name: Oh, you're one of those.


Let me level with you.  I am 32.  My first game was Simcity on 5" Floppies when I was 8 (1989).  It came with a red piece of stiff paper with building silhouettes on it.  This was DRM back in the day.  If I lost that piece of paper, I was screwed.  But, that was up to me.  The contract requirements for me to play a game where solely in my hands and not in the hands of a third party  If I had the hardware and the power, I could play the game. Once I bought the game, it was my responsibility.

I remember the first time I came into contact with internet based DRM.  Bioshock (2007) required a server check to verify the game.  I found out that I could only install it 5 times and then it would be bricked.  I was not happy about this, but I thought "times change" and just accepted it because I wanted to play it.

Since then, it has just snowballed.  Now the contract is no longer in the hands of the gamer, but the gamers ISP, and now MS as well.  What was once a simple matter of playing a game has become a nightmare of "what ifs"  What if my ISP goes down.  What if I have to cancel my internet because I lost my job?  What if MS servers go down, what if MS stops supporting the game, or eventually the console?

I still have my copy of SimCity.  I can still load it up and play it if I have the hardware.  That was almost 15 years ago.  Will you be able to play new games on your Xbox One 15 years from now, even if you have access to the hardware?

While I rant on about this, it is still never a better time to be a gamer, especially a PC Gamer.  We are seeing a renaissance of the PC gaming industry, one that rivals the 90's, with help from indie games and crowdsourcing.
 
2013-06-19 01:38:05 PM

stuhayes2010: I hate these updates.  I have kids now, so I can't play like I did in college.  So when the stars align and I get some free time to play, I turn on the PS3 and there's a damnable required update that'll take 10 minutes.


Why not just update your games every so often? I only play lol once every few weeks, but once or twice a week I fire it up and check for updates while doing other things. That way when I get to play it's ready.
 
2013-06-19 01:50:34 PM

Creative Name: Burr: Creative Name: Burr: Just like Blizzard lost me with Starcraft 2

the fark?

To be fair, it wasn't just Starcraft 2.  Starcraft 2 brought elements to the table that I didn't care for (breaking the game up into 3 games, requiring an internet connection for single player).

When they continued the trend with Diablo 3, then I pretty much said "fark off Blizzard".  Of course, I grew up with Blizzard games, and when they merged with Activision, it just wasn't the same anymore.

Oh, you're one of those.

...you do know you don't need an internet connection for single player, right?


Problems with SC2:

- Awful, awful dialogue
- Awful, awful story. Oh hey the Overmind is now good! Let's uninfest Kerrigan, just like in BW! Let's add Sargareas, oops, I mean the Dark Voice as the real villain! In fact, let's act like BW never ever happened!*
- Battle.net 2.0. It's finally something decent, but the game was released years ago, so...........
- Can change name once

Problems with Diablo 3:

- Items aren't fun to find (+primary stat and vit is all that matters)
- Difficult to find decent items (drop rates changed from D2's pull-tab probabilities to a MegaMillions all-or-nothing)
- Internet connection always required
- Party size limited to four**
- No customization of character (anyone can get any of the same skills)


* Yes, I did go back and watch SC1's story and dialogue. It's still great. SC2 is about twenty steps backwards.
** Yes, I did play D2 with more than four people. I did it all the time.
 
2013-06-19 01:50:59 PM

Nefarious: Yeah shook my head when I saw that story.  Sony has won the console "off-season".  I have to give them a 90% chance to carry the day in the next generation.  They should succeed despite themselves.  However, anyone hoping for the utter failure of the XB 1 remember we want completion in the game space and Nintendo is happy playing to their own game that seems to be a generation behind.


I don't want MS to fail. I want them to learn how to listen to their customers.
 
2013-06-19 01:59:11 PM
Ah, the new generation of consoles.  The only winning move is not to play.
 
2013-06-19 02:17:25 PM

jbtilley: Ah, the new generation of consoles.  The only winning move is not to play.


0/10

RTFA
 
2013-06-19 02:32:10 PM

PanicMan: No one is going to win or lose.  .


img.fark.net
"Xbrick owners, when the servers fell."
 
2013-06-19 03:47:00 PM

Burr: Creative Name: Oh, you're one of those.

Let me level with you.  I am 32.  My first game was Simcity on 5" Floppies when I was 8 (1989).  It came with a red piece of stiff paper with building silhouettes on it.  This was DRM back in the day.  If I lost that piece of paper, I was screwed.  But, that was up to me.  The contract requirements for me to play a game where solely in my hands and not in the hands of a third party  If I had the hardware and the power, I could play the game. Once I bought the game, it was my responsibility.

I remember the first time I came into contact with internet based DRM.  Bioshock (2007) required a server check to verify the game.  I found out that I could only install it 5 times and then it would be bricked.  I was not happy about this, but I thought "times change" and just accepted it because I wanted to play it.

Since then, it has just snowballed.  Now the contract is no longer in the hands of the gamer, but the gamers ISP, and now MS as well.  What was once a simple matter of playing a game has become a nightmare of "what ifs"  What if my ISP goes down.  What if I have to cancel my internet because I lost my job?  What if MS servers go down, what if MS stops supporting the game, or eventually the console?

I still have my copy of SimCity.  I can still load it up and play it if I have the hardware.  That was almost 15 years ago.  Will you be able to play new games on your Xbox One 15 years from now, even if you have access to the hardware?

While I rant on about this, it is still never a better time to be a gamer, especially a PC Gamer.  We are seeing a renaissance of the PC gaming industry, one that rivals the 90's, with help from indie games and crowdsourcing.


The problem with that red piece of paper with a defined serial number is that I can upload the install.exe and a text file with that number in it to the web, and everyone can pirate it easy. Back then, you could share serial numbers on your local BBS if you were savy, but you couldn't broadcast it to the world. You can pirate a number of older games on BitTorrent this way.

Developers then moved to more complicated serial number/hash based drms, and people kept releasing crack programs that would find the appropriate serial number/hash in the code and spit out a valid code for you during the install process. You can also BitTorrent a large number of these types of games today.

The web enabled piracy on a grand level that has never been seen before. DRM has moved with the times to try to prevent these types of piracy that have proved trivial to pull off with the advent of the Internet.

I understand the anger at the more draconian DRM policies (EA I'm looking at you), but expecting DRM to stay static with 1989 technology, while the online computing environment has expanded enormously, seems a trifle unrealistic, don't you think?
 
2013-06-19 04:02:36 PM
No matter how hard developers try to stop piracy, hackers are going to find a way around this. It has been proven over and over again. So developers up the game and hackers do as well. It is a vicious cycle that ends up punishing the paying customers much more than it deters pirates (see SimCity for reference).
 
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