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(Grand Moose Tarkin)   It's time to abolish the Canadian Senate. The governors-general will have direct control of their provinces. Fear will keep the provinces in line, fear of the NDP   (rolluptheredcarpet.ca) divider line 38
    More: Scary, Canadian Senate, Canadians, NDP  
•       •       •

1184 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Jun 2013 at 11:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



38 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-06-19 10:15:59 AM  
Yes. A bunch of entitled and appointed rich old white people will certainly let that happen.

Also the Govenor General has a group of Lieutenant Govenors that rule each province with an iron fist. Ours used to be a school teacher and her frailness is all a ruse.
 
2013-06-19 10:28:41 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: Yes. A bunch of entitled and appointed rich old white people will certainly let that happen.

Also the Govenor General has a group of Lieutenant Govenors that rule each province with an iron fist. Ours used to be a school teacher and her frailness is all a ruse.


In her defense, the iron fist were because of the knuckle replacements on account of the arthritis.
 
2013-06-19 10:29:20 AM  
Evacuate Ottawa?  In our moment of triumph?  I think you overestimate their chances, eh.
 
2013-06-19 10:37:45 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: Yes. A bunch of entitled and appointed rich old white people will certainly let that happen.

Also the Govenor General has a group of Lieutenant Govenors that rule each province with an iron fist. Ours used to be a school teacher and her frailness is all a ruse.


Amateur. This guy will run over your foot.
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 10:54:03 AM  

Glenford: Tr0mBoNe: Yes. A bunch of entitled and appointed rich old white people will certainly let that happen.

Also the Govenor General has a group of Lieutenant Govenors that rule each province with an iron fist. Ours used to be a school teacher and her frailness is all a ruse.

Amateur. This guy will run over your foot.
[img.fark.net image 650x488]


Or use his weather machine against you!
 
2013-06-19 10:55:08 AM  
Heyo, muh Canadian Peeps!
My Canada cred:
I spent a few choice, formative years growing up on a walleyed-filled lake of the woods, across from which, a short boat ride away, stood misty Canada.
We only had two TV stations that came in with any regularity. One of those was from Ontario.
Not so different. Local news. Sitcoms (King of Kensington) Sports (hockey). Lots of non-verbal cartoons (remember Pink Panther?). Sesame Street's bilingualism efforts focused on French rather than Spanish. I remember going there for a dental appointment.
To this day my favorite Olympic event, summer or winter, is curling (not even kidding)

I guess what I'm trying to say is - and I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this- I apparently have no idea how the government functions.
I mean, I know you have a PM, and a legislature, but... 59 "appointed" senators?
As opposed to?

What goes on up there?
I bought leeches in good faith from you people.
 
2013-06-19 10:59:53 AM  
This bickering is pointless.
 
2013-06-19 11:02:57 AM  

Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.


No it isn't.
 
2013-06-19 11:25:36 AM  
You think the Canadian Senate is bad when it comes to being paid without being productive, have you seen the Vancouver Canucks play hockey?
 
2013-06-19 11:26:26 AM  
I, obviously, do not understand the Canadian government.
 
2013-06-19 12:31:07 PM  
The senate is a useless vestigial organ of state.
 
2013-06-19 12:35:07 PM  
Fark was trying to silence me! Down with the crown! REVOLUTION!!! Who's with me?

/crickets
 
2013-06-19 12:42:33 PM  
While not a fan of the NDP this is a good tactic.  Frankly back in the day Harper did campaign on a EEE senate or abolishment.  If the NDP are willing to go along with the plan maybe they could get something done.

HOWEVER, something tells me that this is one of those decisions that have to be agreed to by all of the provinces too.  Western Canada will say hell yes, the maritimes would support it too I think.  The problem is convincing Ontario and Quebec to get on board.

They get feisty over other provinces taking away from their historic strength of numbers in government.

I can't really blame Harper for appointing Conservatives when Senators in waiting (Alberta) aren't available.  That's just how it's been done forever.  The PM picks people that won't hold up his bills.
 
2013-06-19 12:47:53 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: While not a fan of the NDP this is a good tactic.  Frankly back in the day Harper did campaign on a EEE senate or abolishment.  If the NDP are willing to go along with the plan maybe they could get something done.

HOWEVER, something tells me that this is one of those decisions that have to be agreed to by all of the provinces too.  Western Canada will say hell yes, the maritimes would support it too I think.  The problem is convincing Ontario and Quebec to get on board.

They get feisty over other provinces taking away from their historic strength of numbers in government.

I can't really blame Harper for appointing Conservatives when Senators in waiting (Alberta) aren't available.  That's just how it's been done forever.  The PM picks people that won't hold up his bills.


I think there are serious constitutional problems with abolishing the senate. Parliament can't do it unilaterally (for obvious reasons) so you basically need some sort of constitutional convention and reform. We know how well and easy that has gone in the past...

We may be able to push through reforms without requiring a constitutional change. Each province for instance could pass laws mandating that they elect their senators. Technically they are still appointed but PM's usually agree by convention to follow the provinces on these issues. Our unwritten conventions are usually adhered too.
 
2013-06-19 12:53:38 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: HOWEVER, something tells me that this is one of those decisions that have to be agreed to by all of the provinces too. Western Canada will say hell yes, the maritimes would support it too I think. The problem is convincing Ontario and Quebec to get on board.


From my understanding, it would require changes to the constitution.  And good farking luck trying to get the country to agree on that.  I still remember the whole Meech Lake and Charlottetown Accord debacles in the early 90's.

That said, the Senate need to be completely overhauled and be elected with term limits or abolished completely.
 
2013-06-19 12:55:51 PM  
As a Canadian, I'm thoroughly enjoying the headline and comments!

I've always enjoyed the Senate as being a place where MP's can vote based on conscience, not party lines, and where a good, second look at proposed legislation can be had, independent of the usual political drama. But I'm at odds with the 'appointed until 75 years' aspect of it.
 
2013-06-19 12:56:13 PM  
Attention all provinces of the Canadian federation
Attention all provinces of the Canadian federation
We have assumed control.

/We have assumed control.
 
2013-06-19 12:59:09 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: While not a fan of the NDP this is a good tactic.  Frankly back in the day Harper did campaign on a EEE senate or abolishment.  If the NDP are willing to go along with the plan maybe they could get something done.

HOWEVER, something tells me that this is one of those decisions that have to be agreed to by all of the provinces too.  Western Canada will say hell yes, the maritimes would support it too I think.  The problem is convincing Ontario and Quebec to get on board.

They get feisty over other provinces taking away from their historic strength of numbers in government.

I can't really blame Harper for appointing Conservatives when Senators in waiting (Alberta) aren't available.  That's just how it's been done forever.  The PM picks people that won't hold up his bills.


Province or TerritoryNumber of SenatorsPopulation per Senator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_2006_Census">2006 census)Total/Average105301,075http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Co lumbia">British Columbia6685,581http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta">Alberta6548,3 91http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario">Ontario24506,678http://en.wi kipedia.org/wiki/Quebec">Quebec24314,422http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki /Manitoba">Manitoba6191,400http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatchewan ">Saskatchewan6161,359http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Scotia">Nov a Scotia1091,346http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_and_Labrador" >Newfoundland and Labrador684,244http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Brunswick">New Brunswick1072,999http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territories"> Northwest Territories141,464http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Edward_Island"> Prince Edward Island433,962http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukon">Yukon130,372http:/ /en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunavut">Nunavut129,474
ONtario and quebec aren't really over represented in the Senate, Alberta and BC are underrepresented.
 
2013-06-19 01:00:14 PM  
Crap. that didn't post as well as I would have liked.
 
2013-06-19 01:06:06 PM  

amishkarl: ONtario and quebec aren't really over represented in the Senate, Alberta and BC are underrepresented.


I WAS TOLD THERE WOULD BE NO MATH
 
2013-06-19 01:18:24 PM  

Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.


img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 01:27:22 PM  

Egoy3k: The senate is a useless vestigial organ of state.


From what I understand, it combines the accountability of the House of Lords with the maturity and statesmanship of the US Senate.
 
2013-06-19 01:28:26 PM  

Stone Meadow: Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.

[img.fark.net image 385x335]


Err...I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, and say that "No it isn't" was a joke about pointless bickering.
 
2013-06-19 01:36:32 PM  
Why do I get the feeling that the plans to reform the House of Lords into a senate will turn it into this? It is almost the same just with a different name, it seems. Perhaps the upper bodies should be unelected but appointed, but appointments go through a vetting process, and the only people eligable to be appointed have extensive expertise in an important field, be it from sciences, to arts, to construction and even something like surveying. Every field and industry needs a representative. Ooh, that's an idea, each field and profession has a guild from which they nominate their representative, except for the low professions. The government is useless, and it needs experts to refer to, not quangos and think tanks that tell it what it wants to hear. Anything that gets more experts involved would be a good thing.

Also I need to be dictator.
 
2013-06-19 01:41:40 PM  

Stone Meadow: Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.

[img.fark.net image 385x335]


hawcian: Stone Meadow: Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.

[img.fark.net image 385x335]

Err...I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, and say that "No it isn't" was a joke about pointless bickering.


More specifically.
 
2013-06-19 01:46:57 PM  

Slaxl: Why do I get the feeling that the plans to reform the House of Lords into a senate will turn it into this? It is almost the same just with a different name, it seems. Perhaps the upper bodies should be unelected but appointed, but appointments go through a vetting process, and the only people eligable to be appointed have extensive expertise in an important field, be it from sciences, to arts, to construction and even something like surveying. Every field and industry needs a representative. Ooh, that's an idea, each field and profession has a guild from which they nominate their representative, except for the low professions. The government is useless, and it needs experts to refer to, not quangos and think tanks that tell it what it wants to hear. Anything that gets more experts involved would be a good thing.

Also I need to be dictator.



Ahem, Niccolo, what you really want is to be adviser to the dictator.
 
2013-06-19 01:49:07 PM  
The average senator worked barely 3 months out of 12? So that's like all Spring, Summer, and Fall. That doesn't seem so bad.
 
2013-06-19 01:51:26 PM  
Prepare to witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational igloo.
 
2013-06-19 01:51:30 PM  

Glenford: Stone Meadow: Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.

[img.fark.net image 385x335]

hawcian: Stone Meadow: Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.

[img.fark.net image 385x335]

Err...I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, and say that "No it isn't" was a joke about pointless bickering.

More specifically.


Sorry, I'm metered here at work, so YT is off limits. But to the OP...

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-19 01:52:06 PM  

Glenford: Stone Meadow: Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.

[img.fark.net image 385x335]

hawcian: Stone Meadow: Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.

[img.fark.net image 385x335]

Err...I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, and say that "No it isn't" was a joke about pointless bickering.

More specifically.


You'll have to pay for another 5 minutes.
 
2013-06-19 01:58:06 PM  

Famous Thamas: Glenford: Stone Meadow: Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.

[img.fark.net image 385x335]

hawcian: Stone Meadow: Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.

[img.fark.net image 385x335]

Err...I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, and say that "No it isn't" was a joke about pointless bickering.

More specifically.

You'll have to pay for another 5 minutes.


But that wasn't five minutes just now!
 
2013-06-19 02:17:31 PM  

Glenford: Famous Thamas: Glenford: Stone Meadow: Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.

[img.fark.net image 385x335]

hawcian: Stone Meadow: Glenford: Rev.K: This bickering is pointless.

No it isn't.

[img.fark.net image 385x335]

Err...I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, and say that "No it isn't" was a joke about pointless bickering.

More specifically.

You'll have to pay for another 5 minutes.

But that wasn't five minutes just now!


I'm sorry, if you want me to go on arguing with you, you'll have to pay for another 5 minutes.
 
2013-06-19 02:19:44 PM  
The Senate cannot be abolished without a Consitutional amendment.  THis is not something that's going to happen anytime soon.

/But it should.
 
2013-06-19 02:21:46 PM  

TsarTom: but... 59 "appointed" senators?
As opposed to?


Elected ones. Canadians have no say in who becomes a senator. The Prime Minister appoints Senators.
 
2013-06-19 02:22:18 PM  

ThreadSinger: As a Canadian, I'm thoroughly enjoying the headline and comments!

I've always enjoyed the Senate as being a place where MP's can vote based on conscience, not party lines, and where a good, second look at proposed legislation can be had, independent of the usual political drama. But I'm at odds with the 'appointed until 75 years' aspect of it.


Partisanship is the biggest problem.  Rather than the PMO appointing senators, I think the Lieutenant Governor of each province should appoint theirs.  10-year term limits to a maximum age of 75, no party affiliation.  This might - MIGHT - be a step towards fixing it.  But I'd still not cry to see it disappear.
 
2013-06-19 04:38:12 PM  

TsarTom: I guess what I'm trying to say is - and I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this- I apparently have no idea how the government functions.
I mean, I know you have a PM, and a legislature, but... 59 "appointed" senators?
As opposed to?

What goes on up there?


The problem: The Canadian Senate is 105 appointed citizens who provide a "sober second thought" to bills. They almost never reject bills and have basically no power over the PM or the House of Commons. Therefore, they are often regarded as nothing more than well-connected political lifers who, in what little time they spend working, give the rubber stamp to everything that they see. Oh, and they are paid obscene sums of money for this.

The best solution- to abolish the Senate altogether- is also the least likely to be implemented.

The worst solution- to elect Senators- is also the most likely to be implemented.
 
2013-06-19 05:47:38 PM  

WhiskeySticks: You think the Canadian Senate is bad when it comes to being paid without being productive, have you seen the Vancouver Canucks play hockey?US Senate lately?


Fixed that for you.

We've got a lock on unproductive, overpaid legislators who spend all their time in partisan bickering and lining their pockets with special interest money while producing almost no useful legislation.  We're very efficient at being inefficient.

/Remember, if pro is the opposite of con, what's the opposite of progress?
 
2013-06-20 06:03:20 PM  

Silverstaff: WhiskeySticks: You think the Canadian Senate is bad when it comes to being paid without being productive, have you seen the Vancouver Canucks play hockey? US Senate lately?  War on drugs?


Fixed that for you YOU.

 
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