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(NBC San Diego)   FBI says the snooping prevented a bomb plot on Wall Street. Wait, that would have been bad?   ( nbcsandiego.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, FBI, Wall Street, newspapers in Denmark, Maj. Nidal Hasan, NBC News, Marc Bulger, car bombs, Jeep Grand Cherokee  
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2925 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2013 at 6:56 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-06-18 06:52:17 PM  
16 votes:
I suspect that "potential terrorist attacks" are calculated almost exactly like the "street value" of marijuana and other drugs seized during high-profile police raids.
2013-06-18 03:23:30 PM  
16 votes:
Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.
2013-06-18 03:04:56 PM  
9 votes:
I'm sure the pervasive surveillance in the old Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany prevented many "terrorist" attacks there also.
2013-06-18 04:04:39 PM  
8 votes:
So if we've been recording calls why can't the DOJ listen in and find the evidence they need to prosecute banksters?
2013-06-18 06:34:22 PM  
5 votes:
testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.
2013-06-18 08:57:24 PM  
4 votes:

umad: Hey now, it takes some time to talk a patsy into taking possession of your fake bomb so you can arrest them for it. They are going as fast as they can to inflate their numbers to make this "seem reasonable."


Read this:

img.fark.net

if you want to be thoroughly disgusted by the tactics the FBI is using in their stings.
2013-06-18 08:40:08 PM  
4 votes:
img.fark.net

Wall Street?  PROTECTED.

Main Street?  YOUR FAULT FOR NOT BEING JOB CREATORS.
2013-06-18 07:33:18 PM  
4 votes:
Yeah yeah yeah.  Snooping saved us all, and it was ONLY snooping that saved.  It is the miracle cure for terrorism. Without it, we'd all be dead.

For years, we've heard cops say, "If only we could wire tap this guy, or lock up that guy without a warrant, it would make our job easier", but they couldn't do that because it is a violation of the constitution.  Cops have had to live with constitutional restrictions for 222 years.  The NSA is no different.  And saying it was a panacea that saved us all from destruction is 1) bullshiat, and 2) not a valid reason to subvert the constitution.
2013-06-18 07:13:12 PM  
4 votes:
I don't care if it prevented one million bomb plots, you can't crumble up the Constitution and throw it in the trash because you don't agree with it. 4th amendment motherf*ckers. Read it, learn it, live it.
2013-06-18 08:27:27 PM  
3 votes:
Which amendment was the "Ends justify the means" one?
2013-06-18 07:41:28 PM  
3 votes:

Pocket Ninja: I suspect that "potential terrorist attacks" are calculated almost exactly like the "street value" of marijuana and other drugs seized during high-profile police raids.


I suspect they're the "potential terrorist attacks" where some taxi driver with zero connections says he hates America, so the FBI spends a year convincing him to join an imaginary terrorist cell. Then when he does, they bust him and issue a press release announcing the arrest of Al Qaida's No. 2 commander.
2013-06-18 07:09:38 PM  
3 votes:
Anecdotally one Illegal action caused a positive outcome. Logical conclusion: all such illegal actions are now permitted.
2013-06-18 05:48:57 PM  
3 votes:

i369.photobucket.com

2013-06-18 03:19:47 PM  
3 votes:
They say that like it's a good thing.
2013-06-18 03:11:07 PM  
3 votes:
Yeah, I'm not sure that's even the point.
2013-06-18 11:01:36 PM  
2 votes:
Patriot act warrants granted
media.boingboing.net

Its all about those terrorists
2013-06-18 10:06:59 PM  
2 votes:

pdkl95: If the NSA has anywhere even CLOSE to the amount of data they are suspected of gathering (which is basically guaranteed at this point), they probability of finding ANYTHING you wanted to find approaches 100%. You end up seeing your own influence on the data more than any actual finding, because you're looking signal way below the noise floor.


Exactly.  My job involves cybersecurity and we use the exact opposite approach of the NSA because we're trying to filter out noise.  Grabbing all the info you can get your hands on only works if you start with a conclusion and intend to create a pattern to politically justify it.
2013-06-18 09:20:19 PM  
2 votes:
They don't need all this power to catch terrorists. Look at their ineffectiveness in Boston. But really, that's not the point. They want to listen in, in order to keep their finger on the pulse of dissent, which there's no way they can get a court order for. They want to know just what people are saying about their little Martial Law exercise in Boston. Who, the pockets of resistance are going to crystallize around. Where they're going to have to send the shock troopers first to neutralize the strongest pockets of resistance whenever they begin whatever it is they have planned. You didn't think they've been arming every small-town police force with assault weaponry by accident, do you? Millions of weapons of war to deal with "terrorists"? Hint: the "terrorists" don't number in the millions. coontil the term is re-defined, that is.)

I know. I'm just jumping at shadows, right? I'm not the one purchasing millions of guns, and hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition.
2013-06-18 08:18:50 PM  
2 votes:

Wayne 985: I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.


Circumstantial evidence.  It's not so much about targeting an individual as it is a very lazy and political approach to investigation, the most common result of which is finding a convenient scapegoat.  If their overall approach follows the same sort of complete lack of ethics in favor of expediency then we're all in a shiatload of trouble because now you only need to call the wrong number at the wrong time to become a suspect.  Likely to happen, no, but this is something the government has absolutely no business putting their own citizens at risk if only because it's so inherently unproductive -- you're a million times more likely to snag the wrong guy because you're specifically requesting info that's like 99.99999999% noise.  It's the sort of shiat you probably don't care about, figuring it could never happen to you, right up until you're that unlucky guy -- at which point every day of the rest of your life is a nightmare.  But even if you think you're safe, this should be considered completely unacceptable just as a pure waste of tax dollars.  OK, so they only got the records?  Well hell, that's even MORE obvious this is a pile of bullshiat -- they're collecting only the most basic info on a massive amount of communication traffic with absolutely no justifiable reason.  Not that being more invasive is a good thing, but it's telling that they didn't want a targeted search (which really wouldn't be hard to arrange with the phone companies -- but it might require, you know, a warrant), they wanted everything.

At my job, I have access to server logs to approximately a quarter of the world's commerical web traffic.  When one of my employer's clients requests an investigation (and they do) the first things we do are 1) qualify the requestor as someone privy to the info, and 2) confirm specific information about what time, what site, etc.  Security is a concern but mainly there's simply too much to go through otherwise and someone deserving of the info will at least have an idea of what they want investigated (e.g., "we suffered at DDoS attack at 8:00 GMT on this URL").  If you ask for access to everything, your intentions can only be nefarious -- that means you have no farking clue what you're doing so you're going to request a huge farking base on info (almost all of which you have no business looking at) from which almost any sort of pattern can be extrapolated by ignoring everything else because that's literally all that info is good for.
2013-06-18 07:28:35 PM  
2 votes:
Even more interestingly, the surveillance was of overseas communications and the plotters were lured to the United States.

And that was their best example of a success from this program.


/DIRNSA, you oathbreaking piece of Fritz, the NSA does not need to monitor US-internal communications.
//Get a farking warrant, you lazy assholes.
2013-06-18 07:20:31 PM  
2 votes:
You know, you can have two parties that disagree about the right core axioms to base the creation of laws on. They can argue about whether stimulation of business or a stronger social safety net is more effective for governance. These can be honest debates, even if both sides find the other frustrating.

But we can't stand for a party in this country that believes the most basic rules set down in the Constitution are irrelevant in the day to day operation of the government. We can't stand for a party that believes that constant, persistent surveillance of the citizens of this country is a good thing.

Looked at this way, the party lines shift quite strongly. Who would have thought a strong liberal like Al Franken would find himself on the anti-freedom side of the aisle? And it's almost no surprise at all that arch-conservative Rand Paul finds himself on the side of freedom.

There was once an attempt to purge Communists from government. We need a new purge. This isn't an false threat like McCarthy had latched onto. We the People are clearly under attack by un-American leaders who have not only failed to protect our freedoms but have gleefully destroyed them. These politicians must be removed in the next election, if not recalled and impeached immediately.
2013-06-18 07:16:44 PM  
2 votes:

Walker: I don't care if it prevented one million bomb plots, you can't crumble up the Constitution and throw it in the trash because you don't agree with it. 4th amendment motherf*ckers. Read it, learn it, live it.


When you talk about guns that way your a gun loving fetishist with a small penis.
2013-06-18 07:07:47 PM  
2 votes:

whither_apophis: So if we've been recording calls why can't the DOJ listen in and find the evidence they need to prosecute banksters?


They already have the evidence, Holder just doesn't give a sh*t.  Which is why he needs to be rotting in prison next to all his narco-banker buddies
2013-06-18 05:11:04 PM  
2 votes:
Sure

/sure it did
2013-06-19 01:13:49 AM  
1 vote:
If you murder a 1,000 people statistically you've probably killed a few other murders, pedophiles, thieves and other undesirables so it's all a win, right?
2013-06-18 11:29:35 PM  
1 vote:
Amazing how many farkers demand the govt uphold the 4th amendment while simultaneously dismissing the 2nd. Because only hunters living off the land and murderers excercize their 2nd amendment right....or something
2013-06-18 10:54:07 PM  
1 vote:
img.fark.net
2013-06-18 09:38:37 PM  
1 vote:

tinyarena: Metadata: an massive relational index of information
Cloud Computing: sharing a complex program's task across many servers, effective for 'brute force' programming
Natural Language Algorithm: A program that teaches itself the relationship and meaning of communications

There is no human being snooping on you. There is an army of lighting fast, semi-intelligent machines snooping on us all.


A few more, that when combined with these reveal a rather distressing type of problem:
Apophenia (seeing patterns in numbers)
Pareidolia (seeing faces/images in noise)
Ideomotor Effect (not realizing you are the one causing the action)
Forer Effect ("We've got something for everybody!")
Filter Bubble (you're cool search tool is telling you what you want to hear, because you asked it to be "specific" or "efficient")

If the NSA has anywhere even CLOSE to the amount of data they are suspected of gathering (which is basically guaranteed at this point), they probability of finding ANYTHING you wanted to find approaches 100%. You end up seeing your own influence on the data more than any actual finding, because you're looking signal way below the noise floor.

Without even getting to the point where somebody tries to pull something malicious with all that power at their fingertips, the damage will already be done by a well-intentioned spook who's really just seeing things in clouds...

img.fark.net

img.fark.net
2013-06-18 09:34:38 PM  
1 vote:

whither_apophis: So if we've been recording calls why can't the DOJ listen in and find the evidence they need to prosecute banksters?


You expect them to bite the hand that feeds them?

Also, neither the Federal government or any agency thereof has any credibility on this matter.
2013-06-18 09:16:55 PM  
1 vote:

Wayne 985: I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.


First of all the only government agency that has any NEED to know about addresses on my envelopes is the USPS, and that is only to perform their duties, to deliver the damn letter.  No other agency should be keeping tabs on who I do or do not send mail to.  We're not in the farking USSR here.  Speaking of which:

I remember watching a show on one of the cable networks (forget which one, this was years ago) detailing the police work of the former East German state.  They went so far as to surreptitiously collect samples of used clothing and put them in labeled jars, so that in the event they wanted to find a subject, they would just grab that persons jar and let the hounds sniff the contents and hunt you down.  They would have East German citizens keep tabs on OTHER East Germans, by doing things such as attaching microphones to (old style) home heating radiators so they could bug everyone.  IIRC, at one point (according to the show) 1/3 of the populace was coerced into spying on the rest (and presumably each other).

But hey, fark all that.  This is the 21st century.  We just let computers spy on us, with the glorious approval of our bought and paid for elected overlords.

What could POSSIBLY go wrong?  I mean, it isn't like our government has a history of horrible abuses of power or anything.  You know, Bay of Tonkin, Agent Orange (Problem?  What problem?),

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/health/research/02infect.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/12/us/families-emerge-as-silent-victi ms -of-tuskegee-syphilis-experiment.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Ahhh, fark it.  I can't even be bothered to spend any more time on this.  I guess I will just OBEY, because sunshine and rainbows, that's why.  I need a friggin' drink.
2013-06-18 09:15:45 PM  
1 vote:

Mock26: Do not care.  I would rather have a 9/11 repeated every farking year than to have the government spying on us.


This is about warrantless spying.  If they have evidence and can get a warrant then by all means, spy away!
2013-06-18 09:14:26 PM  
1 vote:
Do not care.  I would rather have a 9/11 repeated every farking year than to have the government spying on us.
2013-06-18 09:00:48 PM  
1 vote:

jiggs: Which amendment was the "Ends justify the means" one?


Amendment Zed, the super double secret amendment only available to certain sectors of the government. Interestingly enough, it was written on psychic paper so it says whatever the person using it needs it to say. Quite convenient, really.
2013-06-18 08:52:04 PM  
1 vote:

weltallica: Wall Street?  PROTECTED.

Main Street?  YOUR FAULT FOR NOT BEING JOB CREATORS.



Far be it from moi to piss on anybody's petunia patch, but um.. the elitist swine ARE the terr'ists, and they have won and are eating  out of your fridge.
2013-06-18 08:46:08 PM  
1 vote:
so now there are going to be counter survellance measures put in. People here will start to learn to speak in code and disguise their IP addresses. measures taken in police states.
2013-06-18 08:44:49 PM  
1 vote:
Sorry... all this is old-think... the people who destroy Wall Street for billions of dollars of damage are at BoA and companies like it... a bomb might do a little damage, a couple million bucks worth... but we're ignoring the big threats so we can deal with the small fish. Business, in the form of fertilizer, chemical storage, and banking, has killed far more people and cost far more money than terrorism has over the last decade in the US. We're dealing with the threats we can beat because nobody wants to talk about how our capital system has run so amok.
2013-06-18 08:38:57 PM  
1 vote:

Sunidesus: fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.

That was my first thought as well. First "number" I heard was several, then it was a dozen, then 20, then 50. I'd be really curious to know how many (if any) of the supposed cases were solely dependent on the spying.


Hey now, it takes some time to talk a patsy into taking possession of your fake bomb so you can arrest them for it. They are going as fast as they can to inflate their numbers to make this "seem reasonable."

/just glad the partisan shills are finally shutting the fark up
//this thread has been a breath of fresh air actually
2013-06-18 08:38:36 PM  
1 vote:
I love the arguments "but Bush did it first"...SO FLIPPING WHAT?!?

Two wrongs don't make a right. Bush was wrong, so is this administration.

Don't get so entrenched in defending 'your guy' that you throw your morals out the window.
2013-06-18 08:37:28 PM  
1 vote:

Sunidesus: fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.

That was my first thought as well. First "number" I heard was several, then it was a dozen, then 20, then 50. I'd be really curious to know how many (if any) of the supposed cases were solely dependent on the spying.


Nice touch, though, throwing in Wall Street.  That'll at least get them the support of the bankers, which is how committee votes are bought.  Next it'll be oil pipelines, mark my words.
2013-06-18 08:34:46 PM  
1 vote:

fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.


That was my first thought as well. First "number" I heard was several, then it was a dozen, then 20, then 50. I'd be really curious to know how many (if any) of the supposed cases were solely dependent on the spying.
2013-06-18 08:17:50 PM  
1 vote:

tinyarena: I just love their expressions,,

[img.fark.net image 800x273]

They all have the "was that wrong? should I not have done that?" look


Just like Dick Cheney, after you spend so much time alive on the planet you eventually break the barrier of "sociopath". At that point you shouldn't be in charge of anything.
2013-06-18 08:11:24 PM  
1 vote:
At this point, I'm rooting for the bombers. They have a legitimate gripe.
2013-06-18 08:06:06 PM  
1 vote:

Debeo Summa Credo: Turns out this "terror" plot was just some OWS moron planning to take a dump on the sidewalk in front of the exchange. Excuse me if I'm not impressed.


You never would have noticed for all the piles of Police horse shiat outside the exchange. The place was impassable and smelled like shiat for months.
2013-06-18 07:54:16 PM  
1 vote:

HeartBurnKid: Benevolent Misanthrope: By the time this is over, it'll be a thousand acts of terror thwarted, all wiretapping by the government is legal, and anyone who questions the figures will be "unpatriotic".

Nah, Bush left office in '08.


No, January 20, 2009.

/I kept track.
2013-06-18 07:54:06 PM  
1 vote:

The Southern Dandy: Yeah yeah yeah.  Snooping saved us all, and it was ONLY snooping that saved.  It is the miracle cure for terrorism. Without it, we'd all be dead.

For years, we've heard cops say, "If only we could wire tap this guy, or lock up that guy without a warrant, it would make our job easier", but they couldn't do that because it is a violation of the constitution.  Cops have had to live with constitutional restrictions for 222 years.  The NSA is no different.  And saying it was a panacea that saved us all from destruction is 1) bullshiat, and 2) not a valid reason to subvert the constitution.


Totally, completely agreed.
2013-06-18 07:34:48 PM  
1 vote:
Know what's really pathetic?

Sheeple are still believing this load of hooey.

The term "false flag" has been in my vocabulary for the past, oh, 10 years or so.
2013-06-18 07:33:22 PM  
1 vote:

Wayne 985: I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.


I think it's like the Facebook model.  They don't really care about the content of what you post.  They want your relationships: who you're friends with, where you shop, etc.  It's scary how much can be gleaned about your life just knowing a few of your friends.
2013-06-18 07:26:54 PM  
1 vote:
I don't want bombs killing anyone on any street. However, American Democracy thrives on validation. If the NSA snooping stopped any plots, let's hear about it. Let's hear about the. Now.

Why not tell all? None of banksters identified as crooks have been indicted for their obvious wrong-doing that caused the great recession that has left millions unemployed through no fault of their own. So, it's unlikely you will indict any of the plotters. Come on, you bureaucratic farkers, you say it's our country that you are attempting to save, it's time to show your cards, Exactly, how have you been saving us?
2013-06-18 07:23:16 PM  
1 vote:

globalwarmingpraiser: Benevolent Misanthrope: Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.

fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.

My first thought was, "Proof?"

By the time this is over, it'll be a thousand acts of terror thwarted, all wiretapping by the government is legal, and anyone who questions the figures will be "unpatriotic".

Seriously, US - is no one down there paying attention?

A lot of us are and are calling BS on this. We also think the Bush administration did the same crap.


And also got away with it, resulting in the USA-PATRIOT Act, two wars, thousands of your citizens dead along with many, many more innocent people, and trillions of dollars wasted while your infrastructure crumbled and your schools failed.

It seems no one down there is going to stop it from happening again.  Seriously - you guys need to pay attention.  This is another giant step in the wrong farking direction.  Though I have no idea how you stop the monster you've created (over the last 100 years), at this point.
2013-06-18 07:23:08 PM  
1 vote:
FALSE FLAG
2013-06-18 07:16:50 PM  
1 vote:

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.


fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.


My first thought was, "Proof?"

By the time this is over, it'll be a thousand acts of terror thwarted, all wiretapping by the government is legal, and anyone who questions the figures will be "unpatriotic".

Seriously, US - is no one down there paying attention?
d23 [BareFark]
2013-06-18 07:13:32 PM  
1 vote:

IrateShadow: Protecting Wall Street at the expense of a blue-collar city like Boston?  That is so like this administration.


So like every administration since 1980.  Come on...
2013-06-18 07:07:18 PM  
1 vote:

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.


My first thought also.
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-18 06:46:54 PM  
1 vote:

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.


It's all a plot.  And you will be going to the FEMA reeducation camp tomorrow.
2013-06-18 05:43:26 PM  
1 vote:

Lando Lincoln: Oh, well, in that case, feel free to gather as much private information as you like.

As long as you're keeping us SAFE then why should we care if we don't have any privacy anymore?


Don't get me wrong. As a New Yorker with a husband who works in the Financial District stories like this make me quite nervous.

But I'm far more scared of government invasion of privacy.
2013-06-18 05:19:06 PM  
1 vote:
Oh, well, in that case, feel free to gather as much private information as you like.

As long as you're keeping us SAFE then why should we care if we don't have any privacy anymore?
2013-06-18 03:23:22 PM  
1 vote:
Yeah, because the janitor that cleans the place TOTALLY deserves to die, right?
 
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