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(NBC San Diego)   FBI says the snooping prevented a bomb plot on Wall Street. Wait, that would have been bad?   (nbcsandiego.com) divider line 172
    More: Interesting, FBI, Wall Street, newspapers in Denmark, Maj. Nidal Hasan, NBC News, Marc Bulger, car bombs, Jeep Grand Cherokee  
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2906 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2013 at 6:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-18 09:15:45 PM  

Mock26: Do not care.  I would rather have a 9/11 repeated every farking year than to have the government spying on us.


This is about warrantless spying.  If they have evidence and can get a warrant then by all means, spy away!
 
2013-06-18 09:16:55 PM  

Wayne 985: I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.


First of all the only government agency that has any NEED to know about addresses on my envelopes is the USPS, and that is only to perform their duties, to deliver the damn letter.  No other agency should be keeping tabs on who I do or do not send mail to.  We're not in the farking USSR here.  Speaking of which:

I remember watching a show on one of the cable networks (forget which one, this was years ago) detailing the police work of the former East German state.  They went so far as to surreptitiously collect samples of used clothing and put them in labeled jars, so that in the event they wanted to find a subject, they would just grab that persons jar and let the hounds sniff the contents and hunt you down.  They would have East German citizens keep tabs on OTHER East Germans, by doing things such as attaching microphones to (old style) home heating radiators so they could bug everyone.  IIRC, at one point (according to the show) 1/3 of the populace was coerced into spying on the rest (and presumably each other).

But hey, fark all that.  This is the 21st century.  We just let computers spy on us, with the glorious approval of our bought and paid for elected overlords.

What could POSSIBLY go wrong?  I mean, it isn't like our government has a history of horrible abuses of power or anything.  You know, Bay of Tonkin, Agent Orange (Problem?  What problem?),

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/health/research/02infect.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/12/us/families-emerge-as-silent-victi ms -of-tuskegee-syphilis-experiment.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Ahhh, fark it.  I can't even be bothered to spend any more time on this.  I guess I will just OBEY, because sunshine and rainbows, that's why.  I need a friggin' drink.
 
2013-06-18 09:18:44 PM  
img.fark.net
They bought it. You can begin.
 
2013-06-18 09:19:13 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: Paranoia strikes deep, Into your life it will creep.


It's not worth it. The illusion of security is not worth the cost of liberty.
 
2013-06-18 09:20:19 PM  
They don't need all this power to catch terrorists. Look at their ineffectiveness in Boston. But really, that's not the point. They want to listen in, in order to keep their finger on the pulse of dissent, which there's no way they can get a court order for. They want to know just what people are saying about their little Martial Law exercise in Boston. Who, the pockets of resistance are going to crystallize around. Where they're going to have to send the shock troopers first to neutralize the strongest pockets of resistance whenever they begin whatever it is they have planned. You didn't think they've been arming every small-town police force with assault weaponry by accident, do you? Millions of weapons of war to deal with "terrorists"? Hint: the "terrorists" don't number in the millions. (Until the term is re-defined, that is.)

I know. I'm just jumping at shadows, right? I'm not the one purchasing millions of guns, and hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition.
 
2013-06-18 09:34:38 PM  

whither_apophis: So if we've been recording calls why can't the DOJ listen in and find the evidence they need to prosecute banksters?


You expect them to bite the hand that feeds them?

Also, neither the Federal government or any agency thereof has any credibility on this matter.
 
2013-06-18 09:38:37 PM  

tinyarena: Metadata: an massive relational index of information
Cloud Computing: sharing a complex program's task across many servers, effective for 'brute force' programming
Natural Language Algorithm: A program that teaches itself the relationship and meaning of communications

There is no human being snooping on you. There is an army of lighting fast, semi-intelligent machines snooping on us all.


A few more, that when combined with these reveal a rather distressing type of problem:
Apophenia (seeing patterns in numbers)
Pareidolia (seeing faces/images in noise)
Ideomotor Effect (not realizing you are the one causing the action)
Forer Effect ("We've got something for everybody!")
Filter Bubble (you're cool search tool is telling you what you want to hear, because you asked it to be "specific" or "efficient")

If the NSA has anywhere even CLOSE to the amount of data they are suspected of gathering (which is basically guaranteed at this point), they probability of finding ANYTHING you wanted to find approaches 100%. You end up seeing your own influence on the data more than any actual finding, because you're looking signal way below the noise floor.

Without even getting to the point where somebody tries to pull something malicious with all that power at their fingertips, the damage will already be done by a well-intentioned spook who's really just seeing things in clouds...

img.fark.net

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-18 09:39:30 PM  

HeadLever: Yep, lets put the hurt on the entity that only houses most of our retirements and pensions.  That will show them.

*sigh*


Do you really believe that they're shuffling around stacks of cash and physical securities on Wall Street? Or that all the electronic data isn't backed up at multiple locations?
 
2013-06-18 09:49:44 PM  

AndreMA: Do you really believe that they're shuffling around stacks of cash and physical securities on Wall Street?


About as much as you really believe that all the CEOs/CFOs of Bank of America, Halliburton, and Peabody are sitting in on the Floor of Wall Street.
 
2013-06-18 09:50:00 PM  

somemoron: IIRC, at one point (according to the show) 1/3 of the populace was coerced into spying on the rest (and presumably each other).


http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1fv4r6/i_believe_the_g ov ernment_should_be_allowed_to/caeb3pl
 
2013-06-18 09:54:53 PM  

OgreMagi: They count a kid with a pop tart as terrorists, so I'd take anything they say with a grain of salt.


A military age male with a pop tart. Case closed.
 
2013-06-18 09:55:23 PM  

HeadLever: AndreMA: Do you really believe that they're shuffling around stacks of cash and physical securities on Wall Street?

About as much as you really believe that all the CEOs/CFOs of Bank of America, Halliburton, and Peabody are sitting in on the Floor of Wall Street.


I never asserted any such thing.
 
2013-06-18 09:56:53 PM  

pdkl95: somemoron: IIRC, at one point (according to the show) 1/3 of the populace was coerced into spying on the rest (and presumably each other).

http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1fv4r6/i_believe_the_g ov ernment_should_be_allowed_to/caeb3pl


Already been done here, just ask Randy Weaver.
 
2013-06-18 09:59:24 PM  

basemetal:


Don't you dare.
Don't you dare.

(I'll never see them again if I squeal to the cops)
 
2013-06-18 10:01:10 PM  
^yea my brain saw "dance"^
 
2013-06-18 10:02:49 PM  

AndreMA: I never asserted any such thing.


And I did?  Just playing the same game as you.
 
2013-06-18 10:06:59 PM  

pdkl95: If the NSA has anywhere even CLOSE to the amount of data they are suspected of gathering (which is basically guaranteed at this point), they probability of finding ANYTHING you wanted to find approaches 100%. You end up seeing your own influence on the data more than any actual finding, because you're looking signal way below the noise floor.


Exactly.  My job involves cybersecurity and we use the exact opposite approach of the NSA because we're trying to filter out noise.  Grabbing all the info you can get your hands on only works if you start with a conclusion and intend to create a pattern to politically justify it.
 
2013-06-18 10:17:35 PM  
The only thing we need is a good guy with a bomb on Wall St.
 
2013-06-18 10:19:52 PM  

dittybopper: I'm sure the pervasive surveillance in the old Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany prevented many "terrorist" attacks there also.


Because the USA is Nazi Germany... You stupid f@&$
 
2013-06-18 10:20:01 PM  

HeadLever: AndreMA: I never asserted any such thing.

And I did?  Just playing the same game as you.


HeadLever: Yep, lets put the hurt on the entity that only houses most of our retirements and pensions.  That will show them.

*sigh*


Putting the hurt on something "housed" somewhere implies that the something is physically present there, rather than simply managed from that location. So yeah, you did.
 
2013-06-18 10:29:50 PM  

tjfly: dittybopper: I'm sure the pervasive surveillance in the old Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany prevented many "terrorist" attacks there also.

Because the USA is Nazi Germany... You stupid f@&$


Nah, Germany doesn't want any more Nazis.  They end up doing business with people like Prescott Bush.
 
2013-06-18 10:35:10 PM  
You guys are so terrified of snooping? The government doesn't have time or energy to listen to all your boring calls. If I call my aunt or grandma in San Jose, it's all "How's the family, how's the weather, so did you see the doctor?" etc.

Totally riveting stuff I'm so sure the government gives a flying Fark about.

I'm not going divulge the top secret storage locations of Candian Maple Syrup over the phone or anything....
 
2013-06-18 10:38:54 PM  

octopied: top secret storage locations of Candian Maple Syrup over the phone or anything...


*Resets the Person of Interest filter to 6*
 
2013-06-18 10:50:50 PM  
Most americans would gladly paint a target on the building.
 
2013-06-18 10:53:49 PM  

OgreMagi: tinyarena: I just love their expressions,, [img.fark.net image 800x273] They all have the "was that wrong? should I not have done that?" look

That's not Feinstein's look.  She would NEVER admit anything she did was wrong.  That look is "how dare you question your betters, peasant!"

/I can't stand that c00nt


I'm on board with this. I have not a good word to say about her.
 
2013-06-18 10:54:07 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-18 10:56:56 PM  
So, I guess this means the FBI is snooping on everyone, too?
 
2013-06-18 10:58:06 PM  

Wayne 985: I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.


You're assuming that the NSA, FBI, et al are telling the entire the truth.  They've been caught lying before.
 
2013-06-18 11:00:53 PM  

sendtodave: So, I guess this means the FBI is snooping on everyone, too?


Pretty much anybody with an office in DC knows what you eat, what time you sh*t it out and how many times you wipe, yeah.  And have for years.
 
2013-06-18 11:01:36 PM  
Patriot act warrants granted
media.boingboing.net

Its all about those terrorists
 
2013-06-18 11:02:31 PM  

tjfly: dittybopper: I'm sure the pervasive surveillance in the old Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany prevented many "terrorist" attacks there also.

Because the USA is Nazi Germany... You stupid f@&$


I noticed you left out the Soviet Union part.
 
2013-06-18 11:04:07 PM  
Patriot.  A person who always does what the authorities of his native land tell him to do.  Patriot Act.  You do the math.
 
2013-06-18 11:06:05 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Turns out this "terror" plot was just some OWS moron planning to take a dump on the sidewalk in front of the exchange. Excuse me if I'm not impressed.


If the ows dude had eaten at Taco Bell it really could have been dangerous.
 
2013-06-18 11:29:35 PM  
Amazing how many farkers demand the govt uphold the 4th amendment while simultaneously dismissing the 2nd. Because only hunters living off the land and murderers excercize their 2nd amendment right....or something
 
2013-06-18 11:35:45 PM  

dragonchild: pdkl95: If the NSA has anywhere even CLOSE to the amount of data they are suspected of gathering (which is basically guaranteed at this point), they probability of finding ANYTHING you wanted to find approaches 100%. You end up seeing your own influence on the data more than any actual finding, because you're looking signal way below the noise floor.

Exactly.  My job involves cybersecurity and we use the exact opposite approach of the NSA because we're trying to filter out noise.  Grabbing all the info you can get your hands on only works if you start with a conclusion and intend to create a pattern to politically justify it.


Better yet, guys how many distributed Supercomputers do you have in series?  The NSA has hundreds of them.  Their normalization is fourth level exact.  There is no human interpretation involved.
 
2013-06-18 11:39:14 PM  
THERE IS NO EXCUSE farkERS. JUST GET IT.
 
2013-06-18 11:42:02 PM  

tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.


I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?
 
2013-06-18 11:43:36 PM  

AndreMA: So yeah, you did.


Nope, you assertion of my point was that "they're shuffling around stacks of cash".  Where did I say that?   Wall Street is nothing but a metonym for the US financial markets.
 
2013-06-18 11:47:25 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.

I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?


Normalized Relational databases can be ranked from "Not Very Organized and Also Redundant" all the way up to "Very Organized and Unique."  There are typically four levels.
 
2013-06-19 12:05:07 AM  

tinyarena: demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.

I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?

Normalized Relational databases can be ranked from "Not Very Organized and Also Redundant" all the way up to "Very Organized and Unique."  There are typically four levels.


Look, I know what normal forms are.
I know what fourth normal form is.
I even know what fifth normal form is - Sudha Ram has done a ton of work on what she calls "semantic databases".

What I don'tknow is what 4NF Exact is.
 
2013-06-19 12:06:56 AM  

HeadLever: AndreMA: So yeah, you did.

Nope, you assertion of my point was that "they're shuffling around stacks of cash".  Where did I say that?   Wall Street is nothing but a metonym for the US financial markets.


Actually I said that you implied that the retirements and pensions were physically present on Wall Street, regardless of what the instruments were. But whatever; we're belaboring what appears to be a misunderstanding.
 
2013-06-19 12:18:09 AM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: I don't get how this is "News", hasn't everyone always thought they were doing this? Hoover did far worse during the 5 decades he ran the FBI, he had investigations and wire taps on everyone. Look up some of the now declassified reports like the FBI investigations on Martin Luther King and John Lennon or the investigation of the song Louis Louis!


But Hoover was a criminal acting under his own authorization.

The NSA supposedly has government authorization to do what they are doing.
 
2013-06-19 12:22:58 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.

I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?

Normalized Relational databases can be ranked from "Not Very Organized and Also Redundant" all the way up to "Very Organized and Unique."  There are typically four levels.

Look, I know what normal forms are.
I know what fourth normal form is.
I even know what fifth normal form is - Sudha Ram has done a ton of work on what she calls "semantic databases".

What I don'tknow is what 4NF Exact is.


It's the fourth normal form of course, where "there are no non-trivial multivalued dependencies other than a candidate key."  And, since you know the other terms, you know the fourth form is the most unique, "exact" if you will.  Indeed, to maintain the fourth form is the hardest.  As new data relationships must be associated the database will swing down to a lower level and then back up when refinement occurs.  Good thing they have Supercomputers.
 
2013-06-19 12:45:15 AM  

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.


Well, I'm sure it's true, in the same unverifiable way that people owning guns prevents billions of crimes every day.
 
2013-06-19 12:48:10 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.

I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?


It's the fourth in a series of attempts by members of a cult to spread the teachings of their Holy Codd, thereby infecting the rest of the world with their dangerous heresy. Their propaganda unfortunately tends artisans, philosophers, and other truth seekers due to the beauty inherent to their ideology. Fortunately, their beliefs have never spread that far, as the Followers of Codd tend to end up poor and destitute, due to their belief that cache is a sin.

/ok, I maaaaay have been fighting with a few too many ActiveRecord "quirks" today...
 
2013-06-19 12:55:08 AM  
So they prevented, they say, um... sure a plan to bomb Wall Street.  Of course we're supposed to believe them because they say so.  As people point out, no one's been arrested or tried.  Although who knows, maybe they overheard a middle eastern goober yammering about blowing up wall street, and then denied his more studious cousin a student visa.

One notes that they didn't stop Wall Street from wrecking the economy. More people have committed suicide because they lost everything due to Wall Streets criminal actions than all the people killed by terrorists.
 
2013-06-19 01:13:49 AM  
If you murder a 1,000 people statistically you've probably killed a few other murders, pedophiles, thieves and other undesirables so it's all a win, right?
 
2013-06-19 01:14:56 AM  

pdkl95: demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.

I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?

It's the fourth in a series of attempts by members of a cult to spread the teachings of their Holy Codd, thereby infecting the rest of the world with their dangerous heresy. Their propaganda unfortunately tends artisans, philosophers, and other truth seekers due to the beauty inherent to their ideology. Fortunately, their beliefs have never spread that far, as the Followers of Codd tend to end up poor and destitute, due to their belief that cache is a sin.

/ok, I maaaaay have been fighting with a few too many ActiveRecord "quirks" today...


You Boyce are taking this stuff a little too serially. These doctrines have concurrency problems. Who controls your holy records? Who may write? Who may read? I propose we table this.
 
2013-06-19 01:25:54 AM  

Person: If you murder a 1,000 people statistically you've probably killed a few other murders, pedophiles, thieves and other undesirables so it's all a win, right?


Not necessarily. If you murdered 1,000 Buddhist monks in a remote monastery in Tibet, it's unlikely you removed any genuine threats to society, so the net gain would be negligible at best.
 
2013-06-19 01:35:13 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Person: If you murder a 1,000 people statistically you've probably killed a few other murders, pedophiles, thieves and other undesirables so it's all a win, right?

Not necessarily. If you murdered 1,000 Buddhist monks in a remote monastery in Tibet, it's unlikely you removed any genuine threats to society, so the net gain would be negligible at best.


15 yard penalty, moving goalposts.  Do not repeat 3rd down
 
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