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(NBC San Diego)   FBI says the snooping prevented a bomb plot on Wall Street. Wait, that would have been bad?   (nbcsandiego.com) divider line 173
    More: Interesting, FBI, Wall Street, newspapers in Denmark, Maj. Nidal Hasan, NBC News, Marc Bulger, car bombs, Jeep Grand Cherokee  
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2903 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2013 at 6:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-18 03:04:56 PM
I'm sure the pervasive surveillance in the old Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany prevented many "terrorist" attacks there also.
 
2013-06-18 03:11:07 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure that's even the point.
 
2013-06-18 03:19:47 PM
They say that like it's a good thing.
 
2013-06-18 03:23:22 PM
Yeah, because the janitor that cleans the place TOTALLY deserves to die, right?
 
2013-06-18 03:23:30 PM
Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.
 
2013-06-18 03:24:18 PM
I was kidnapped once. I was standing in front of my schoolyard, and a black sedan pulls up. And two guys get out, and they say to me, do I wanna go away with them to a land, where everybody is fairies and elves, and I can have all the comic books I want and chocolate and wax lips, you know. And I said "yes", y'know, and I got into the car with them, 'cause I figured, y'know, "What the hell", I was home that week-end from college anyhow, y'know. They drive me off, and they sent a ransom note to my parents. And my father has bad reading habits, so he gets into bed at night with the ransom note, and he read half of it, y'know, and he got drowsy and fell asleep, then he lent it out, y'know.
Meanwhile they take me to New Jersey, bound and gagged, and my parents finally realize that I'm kidnapped. They snap into action immediately: they rent out my room. The ransom note says for my father to leave a thousand dollars in a hollow tree in New Jersey. He has no trouble raising the thousand dollars, but he gets a hernia carrying the hollow tree.
The FBI surround the house, "Throw the kid out,", they say, "give us your guns, and come out with your hands up."
The kidnappers say, "We'll throw the kid out, but let us keep our guns, and get to our car."
The FBI says, "Throw the kid out, we'll let you get to your car, but give us your guns."
The kidnappers say, "We'll throw the kid out, but let us keep our guns - we don't have to get to our car."
The FBI says, "Keep the kid."
 
2013-06-18 04:04:39 PM
So if we've been recording calls why can't the DOJ listen in and find the evidence they need to prosecute banksters?
 
2013-06-18 05:11:04 PM
Sure

/sure it did
 
2013-06-18 05:19:06 PM
Oh, well, in that case, feel free to gather as much private information as you like.

As long as you're keeping us SAFE then why should we care if we don't have any privacy anymore?
 
2013-06-18 05:26:26 PM
I totally believe for absolutely for reals that the administration would TOTALLY have not run such a thing up a flag pole as proof of concept and proof they're tough on terror. Yup. I completely and totally believe it.
 
2013-06-18 05:43:26 PM

Lando Lincoln: Oh, well, in that case, feel free to gather as much private information as you like.

As long as you're keeping us SAFE then why should we care if we don't have any privacy anymore?


Don't get me wrong. As a New Yorker with a husband who works in the Financial District stories like this make me quite nervous.

But I'm far more scared of government invasion of privacy.
 
2013-06-18 05:48:57 PM
i369.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-18 05:53:20 PM
Jumpyoufu(kers.jpg
 
2013-06-18 05:57:09 PM

basemetal:


Darn you. Darn you to heck!
 
2013-06-18 06:01:08 PM

basemetal: [i369.photobucket.com image 500x339]


If only.

www.property-report.com
 
2013-06-18 06:34:22 PM
testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-18 06:46:54 PM

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.


It's all a plot.  And you will be going to the FEMA reeducation camp tomorrow.
 
2013-06-18 06:52:17 PM
I suspect that "potential terrorist attacks" are calculated almost exactly like the "street value" of marijuana and other drugs seized during high-profile police raids.
 
2013-06-18 07:01:07 PM
Maybe they got a bomb that makes illegal trades.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-06-18 07:05:42 PM
I remember a Reagan press conference* where he dropped a prepared statement into an answer boasting of how many terror attacks his administration prevented. The audience acted suitably impressed, but I never heard any followup details.

Air to air kills in WW2 are a well known example of good faith overestimation of ones own prowess.

* Must be press conference because his State of the Union transcripts don't have it.
 
2013-06-18 07:05:56 PM
Protecting Wall Street at the expense of a blue-collar city like Boston?  That is so like this administration.
 
2013-06-18 07:07:18 PM

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.


My first thought also.
 
2013-06-18 07:07:22 PM
Yeah riiiiight.

The FBI would have stopped all those Jeeps from being recallled

Along with them curing cancer and capturing the Loch Ness Monster.
 
2013-06-18 07:07:47 PM

whither_apophis: So if we've been recording calls why can't the DOJ listen in and find the evidence they need to prosecute banksters?


They already have the evidence, Holder just doesn't give a sh*t.  Which is why he needs to be rotting in prison next to all his narco-banker buddies
 
2013-06-18 07:09:38 PM
Anecdotally one Illegal action caused a positive outcome. Logical conclusion: all such illegal actions are now permitted.
 
2013-06-18 07:11:43 PM
explode you f*ckers.
 
2013-06-18 07:12:21 PM
Wait, the FBI is sharing data with the NSA? I hope they realize that's a scandal in and of itself.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-06-18 07:12:48 PM

whither_apophis: So if we've been recording calls why can't the DOJ listen in and find the evidence they need to prosecute banksters?


They have better lobbyists than terrorists.
 
2013-06-18 07:13:12 PM
I don't care if it prevented one million bomb plots, you can't crumble up the Constitution and throw it in the trash because you don't agree with it. 4th amendment motherf*ckers. Read it, learn it, live it.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-06-18 07:13:32 PM

IrateShadow: Protecting Wall Street at the expense of a blue-collar city like Boston?  That is so like this administration.


So like every administration since 1980.  Come on...
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-06-18 07:14:36 PM

fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.


Getting that hippie that was going to hold up a sign... that counts!
 
2013-06-18 07:16:44 PM
The 2008 stock market crash doesn't count as a bomb. Neither does Uwe Boll's "Assault on Wall Street" or the trailer of Rainbow Six: Patriots.
 
2013-06-18 07:16:44 PM

Walker: I don't care if it prevented one million bomb plots, you can't crumble up the Constitution and throw it in the trash because you don't agree with it. 4th amendment motherf*ckers. Read it, learn it, live it.


When you talk about guns that way your a gun loving fetishist with a small penis.
 
2013-06-18 07:16:50 PM

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.


fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.


My first thought was, "Proof?"

By the time this is over, it'll be a thousand acts of terror thwarted, all wiretapping by the government is legal, and anyone who questions the figures will be "unpatriotic".

Seriously, US - is no one down there paying attention?
 
2013-06-18 07:18:12 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.

fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.

My first thought was, "Proof?"

By the time this is over, it'll be a thousand acts of terror thwarted, all wiretapping by the government is legal, and anyone who questions the figures will be "unpatriotic".

Seriously, US - is no one down there paying attention?


A lot of us are and are calling BS on this. We also think the Bush administration did the same crap.
 
2013-06-18 07:20:05 PM
I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.
 
2013-06-18 07:20:31 PM
You know, you can have two parties that disagree about the right core axioms to base the creation of laws on. They can argue about whether stimulation of business or a stronger social safety net is more effective for governance. These can be honest debates, even if both sides find the other frustrating.

But we can't stand for a party in this country that believes the most basic rules set down in the Constitution are irrelevant in the day to day operation of the government. We can't stand for a party that believes that constant, persistent surveillance of the citizens of this country is a good thing.

Looked at this way, the party lines shift quite strongly. Who would have thought a strong liberal like Al Franken would find himself on the anti-freedom side of the aisle? And it's almost no surprise at all that arch-conservative Rand Paul finds himself on the side of freedom.

There was once an attempt to purge Communists from government. We need a new purge. This isn't an false threat like McCarthy had latched onto. We the People are clearly under attack by un-American leaders who have not only failed to protect our freedoms but have gleefully destroyed them. These politicians must be removed in the next election, if not recalled and impeached immediately.
 
2013-06-18 07:22:09 PM
and keeping us all locked in little individual cells would prevent all crime entirely.

nothing you can say will justify what you've done.
 
2013-06-18 07:22:45 PM
Thanks to a series of road barriers, and an unending surveillance state, never again will the New York Stock Exchange have to worry about terrorists detonating a horse-cart full of explosives next to the building's thick marble walls, killing dozens of people on the street but disrupting trading inside for only a few hours.

Take THAT, Galleanists still upset about the arrests of Sacco and Vanzetti!
 
2013-06-18 07:23:08 PM
FALSE FLAG
 
2013-06-18 07:23:16 PM

globalwarmingpraiser: Benevolent Misanthrope: Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.

fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.

My first thought was, "Proof?"

By the time this is over, it'll be a thousand acts of terror thwarted, all wiretapping by the government is legal, and anyone who questions the figures will be "unpatriotic".

Seriously, US - is no one down there paying attention?

A lot of us are and are calling BS on this. We also think the Bush administration did the same crap.


And also got away with it, resulting in the USA-PATRIOT Act, two wars, thousands of your citizens dead along with many, many more innocent people, and trillions of dollars wasted while your infrastructure crumbled and your schools failed.

It seems no one down there is going to stop it from happening again.  Seriously - you guys need to pay attention.  This is another giant step in the wrong farking direction.  Though I have no idea how you stop the monster you've created (over the last 100 years), at this point.
 
2013-06-18 07:23:22 PM

dittybopper: I'm sure the pervasive surveillance in the old Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany prevented many "terrorist" attacks there also.


This.

Relatively Obscure: Yeah, I'm not sure that's even the point.


And this as well
 
2013-06-18 07:26:54 PM
I don't want bombs killing anyone on any street. However, American Democracy thrives on validation. If the NSA snooping stopped any plots, let's hear about it. Let's hear about the. Now.

Why not tell all? None of banksters identified as crooks have been indicted for their obvious wrong-doing that caused the great recession that has left millions unemployed through no fault of their own. So, it's unlikely you will indict any of the plotters. Come on, you bureaucratic farkers, you say it's our country that you are attempting to save, it's time to show your cards, Exactly, how have you been saving us?
 
2013-06-18 07:28:35 PM
Even more interestingly, the surveillance was of overseas communications and the plotters were lured to the United States.

And that was their best example of a success from this program.


/DIRNSA, you oathbreaking piece of Fritz, the NSA does not need to monitor US-internal communications.
//Get a farking warrant, you lazy assholes.
 
2013-06-18 07:28:39 PM

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.


Yeah, really. It's so easy to say this in retrospect. Hell, it's a good thing that hot blonde slept with me last month. It totally prevented a terrorist attack.
 
2013-06-18 07:30:54 PM

Tommy Moo: Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.

Yeah, really. It's so easy to say this in retrospect. Hell, it's a good thing that hot blonde slept with me last month. It totally prevented a terrorist attack.


I demand proof of your story!
 
2013-06-18 07:32:32 PM

dittybopper: I'm sure the pervasive surveillance in the old Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany prevented many "terrorist" attacks there also.

 
2013-06-18 07:32:49 PM
They count a kid with a pop tart as terrorists, so I'd take anything they say with a grain of salt.
 
2013-06-18 07:33:18 PM
Yeah yeah yeah.  Snooping saved us all, and it was ONLY snooping that saved.  It is the miracle cure for terrorism. Without it, we'd all be dead.

For years, we've heard cops say, "If only we could wire tap this guy, or lock up that guy without a warrant, it would make our job easier", but they couldn't do that because it is a violation of the constitution.  Cops have had to live with constitutional restrictions for 222 years.  The NSA is no different.  And saying it was a panacea that saved us all from destruction is 1) bullshiat, and 2) not a valid reason to subvert the constitution.
 
2013-06-18 07:33:22 PM

Wayne 985: I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.


I think it's like the Facebook model.  They don't really care about the content of what you post.  They want your relationships: who you're friends with, where you shop, etc.  It's scary how much can be gleaned about your life just knowing a few of your friends.
 
2013-06-18 07:34:21 PM
Of course they stop the terrorist attacks thay would affect rich people.
 
2013-06-18 07:34:48 PM
Know what's really pathetic?

Sheeple are still believing this load of hooey.

The term "false flag" has been in my vocabulary for the past, oh, 10 years or so.
 
2013-06-18 07:34:56 PM
That. Stupid phone.
 
2013-06-18 07:35:08 PM

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.


They are in Gitmo mayhaps?
 
2013-06-18 07:35:35 PM
c'mon guys, dirty bomb! mushroom cloud over NY!
why isn't this working anymore??
 
2013-06-18 07:36:03 PM
The first rule of Project Mayhem is...
 
2013-06-18 07:41:28 PM

Pocket Ninja: I suspect that "potential terrorist attacks" are calculated almost exactly like the "street value" of marijuana and other drugs seized during high-profile police raids.


I suspect they're the "potential terrorist attacks" where some taxi driver with zero connections says he hates America, so the FBI spends a year convincing him to join an imaginary terrorist cell. Then when he does, they bust him and issue a press release announcing the arrest of Al Qaida's No. 2 commander.
 
2013-06-18 07:44:48 PM

Rug Doctor: Pocket Ninja: I suspect that "potential terrorist attacks" are calculated almost exactly like the "street value" of marijuana and other drugs seized during high-profile police raids.

I suspect they're the "potential terrorist attacks" where some taxi driver with zero connections says he hates America, so the FBI spends a year convincing him to join an imaginary terrorist cell. Then when he does, they bust him and issue a press release announcing the arrest of Al Qaida's No. 2 commander.


They blocked 50 downloads of the Anarchist's Cookbook. To them, that's a foiled terrorist plot.
 
2013-06-18 07:50:00 PM
Even if this isn't post NSA scandal spin, why are American citizens keen on blowing up their own five star bookie joint?
 
2013-06-18 07:52:28 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: By the time this is over, it'll be a thousand acts of terror thwarted, all wiretapping by the government is legal, and anyone who questions the figures will be "unpatriotic".


Nah, Bush left office in '08.
 
2013-06-18 07:52:37 PM
Turns out this "terror" plot was just some OWS moron planning to take a dump on the sidewalk in front of the exchange. Excuse me if I'm not impressed.
 
2013-06-18 07:54:06 PM

The Southern Dandy: Yeah yeah yeah.  Snooping saved us all, and it was ONLY snooping that saved.  It is the miracle cure for terrorism. Without it, we'd all be dead.

For years, we've heard cops say, "If only we could wire tap this guy, or lock up that guy without a warrant, it would make our job easier", but they couldn't do that because it is a violation of the constitution.  Cops have had to live with constitutional restrictions for 222 years.  The NSA is no different.  And saying it was a panacea that saved us all from destruction is 1) bullshiat, and 2) not a valid reason to subvert the constitution.


Totally, completely agreed.
 
2013-06-18 07:54:16 PM

HeartBurnKid: Benevolent Misanthrope: By the time this is over, it'll be a thousand acts of terror thwarted, all wiretapping by the government is legal, and anyone who questions the figures will be "unpatriotic".

Nah, Bush left office in '08.


No, January 20, 2009.

/I kept track.
 
2013-06-18 07:54:55 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Turns out this "terror" plot was just some OWS moron planning to take a dump on the sidewalk in front of the exchange. Excuse me if I'm not impressed.


I don't know about OWS scat but NYC has a serious dog shiat problem, it's like picking it up is an alien concept to them.
 
2013-06-18 07:56:15 PM

Isitoveryet: Debeo Summa Credo: Turns out this "terror" plot was just some OWS moron planning to take a dump on the sidewalk in front of the exchange. Excuse me if I'm not impressed.

I don't know about OWS scat but NYC has a serious dog shiat problem, it's like picking it up is an alien concept to them.


Honestly, it's one of the best things about leaving new york.
 
2013-06-18 07:56:18 PM
Is Subby this guy?
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-18 07:57:54 PM
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
 
2013-06-18 08:00:50 PM
Sept 16th, 1920.

www.fbi.gov

/note to NSA this is on the FBI website.
//Canadian Citizen, like that matters.
 
2013-06-18 08:01:09 PM
This is not a repeat from 1920.
 
2013-06-18 08:01:42 PM
I don't get how this is "News", hasn't everyone always thought they were doing this? Hoover did far worse during the 5 decades he ran the FBI, he had investigations and wire taps on everyone. Look up some of the now declassified reports like the FBI investigations on Martin Luther King and John Lennon or the investigation of the song Louis Louis!
 
2013-06-18 08:06:06 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Turns out this "terror" plot was just some OWS moron planning to take a dump on the sidewalk in front of the exchange. Excuse me if I'm not impressed.


You never would have noticed for all the piles of Police horse shiat outside the exchange. The place was impassable and smelled like shiat for months.
 
2013-06-18 08:09:52 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Sure

/sure it did


Of course they're completely honest about this.  They would never lie to make their case sound legitimate.  The government is completely honest about everything all the time.  In fact they're so honest they're going to sell us some ocean front property in Arizona next week.
 
2013-06-18 08:10:45 PM
I just love their expressions,,

img.fark.net

They all have the "was that wrong? should I not have done that?" look
 
2013-06-18 08:11:24 PM
At this point, I'm rooting for the bombers. They have a legitimate gripe.
 
2013-06-18 08:11:56 PM
FBI says snooping preven
 
2013-06-18 08:17:50 PM

tinyarena: I just love their expressions,,

[img.fark.net image 800x273]

They all have the "was that wrong? should I not have done that?" look


Just like Dick Cheney, after you spend so much time alive on the planet you eventually break the barrier of "sociopath". At that point you shouldn't be in charge of anything.
 
2013-06-18 08:18:50 PM

Wayne 985: I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.


Circumstantial evidence.  It's not so much about targeting an individual as it is a very lazy and political approach to investigation, the most common result of which is finding a convenient scapegoat.  If their overall approach follows the same sort of complete lack of ethics in favor of expediency then we're all in a shiatload of trouble because now you only need to call the wrong number at the wrong time to become a suspect.  Likely to happen, no, but this is something the government has absolutely no business putting their own citizens at risk if only because it's so inherently unproductive -- you're a million times more likely to snag the wrong guy because you're specifically requesting info that's like 99.99999999% noise.  It's the sort of shiat you probably don't care about, figuring it could never happen to you, right up until you're that unlucky guy -- at which point every day of the rest of your life is a nightmare.  But even if you think you're safe, this should be considered completely unacceptable just as a pure waste of tax dollars.  OK, so they only got the records?  Well hell, that's even MORE obvious this is a pile of bullshiat -- they're collecting only the most basic info on a massive amount of communication traffic with absolutely no justifiable reason.  Not that being more invasive is a good thing, but it's telling that they didn't want a targeted search (which really wouldn't be hard to arrange with the phone companies -- but it might require, you know, a warrant), they wanted everything.

At my job, I have access to server logs to approximately a quarter of the world's commerical web traffic.  When one of my employer's clients requests an investigation (and they do) the first things we do are 1) qualify the requestor as someone privy to the info, and 2) confirm specific information about what time, what site, etc.  Security is a concern but mainly there's simply too much to go through otherwise and someone deserving of the info will at least have an idea of what they want investigated (e.g., "we suffered at DDoS attack at 8:00 GMT on this URL").  If you ask for access to everything, your intentions can only be nefarious -- that means you have no farking clue what you're doing so you're going to request a huge farking base on info (almost all of which you have no business looking at) from which almost any sort of pattern can be extrapolated by ignoring everything else because that's literally all that info is good for.
 
2013-06-18 08:27:27 PM
Which amendment was the "Ends justify the means" one?
 
2013-06-18 08:34:00 PM
And my cat has kept elephants from attacking my house too.
 
2013-06-18 08:34:46 PM

fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.


That was my first thought as well. First "number" I heard was several, then it was a dozen, then 20, then 50. I'd be really curious to know how many (if any) of the supposed cases were solely dependent on the spying.
 
2013-06-18 08:37:28 PM

Sunidesus: fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.

That was my first thought as well. First "number" I heard was several, then it was a dozen, then 20, then 50. I'd be really curious to know how many (if any) of the supposed cases were solely dependent on the spying.


Nice touch, though, throwing in Wall Street.  That'll at least get them the support of the bankers, which is how committee votes are bought.  Next it'll be oil pipelines, mark my words.
 
2013-06-18 08:37:37 PM

jiggs: Which amendment was the "Ends justify the means" one?


The Patriot act you unpatriotic traitor who does not trust glorious leader.
 
2013-06-18 08:38:36 PM
I love the arguments "but Bush did it first"...SO FLIPPING WHAT?!?

Two wrongs don't make a right. Bush was wrong, so is this administration.

Don't get so entrenched in defending 'your guy' that you throw your morals out the window.
 
2013-06-18 08:38:57 PM

Sunidesus: fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.

That was my first thought as well. First "number" I heard was several, then it was a dozen, then 20, then 50. I'd be really curious to know how many (if any) of the supposed cases were solely dependent on the spying.


Hey now, it takes some time to talk a patsy into taking possession of your fake bomb so you can arrest them for it. They are going as fast as they can to inflate their numbers to make this "seem reasonable."

/just glad the partisan shills are finally shutting the fark up
//this thread has been a breath of fresh air actually
 
2013-06-18 08:40:08 PM
img.fark.net

Wall Street?  PROTECTED.

Main Street?  YOUR FAULT FOR NOT BEING JOB CREATORS.
 
2013-06-18 08:41:20 PM

Wayne 985: I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.


Assuming for the moment you are sincere when you say you're "dying to know what they got."  Let me explain some current Information Technology terms.

Metadata:  an massive relational index of information
Cloud Computing:  sharing a complex program's task across many servers, effective for  'brute force' programming
Natural Language Algorithm: A program that teaches itself the relationship and meaning of communications

There is no human being snooping on you.  There is an army of lighting fast, semi-intelligent machines snooping on us all.

/mahalo
 
2013-06-18 08:42:28 PM
HAHA LINK FAIL.

Good jorb, Submittard, linking to a page that gets changed in every few minutes instead of linking the article, good jorb, Modmittards, on approvig it!
/I mean I've got nothing to add
//except maybe a Link?
 
2013-06-18 08:44:49 PM
Sorry... all this is old-think... the people who destroy Wall Street for billions of dollars of damage are at BoA and companies like it... a bomb might do a little damage, a couple million bucks worth... but we're ignoring the big threats so we can deal with the small fish. Business, in the form of fertilizer, chemical storage, and banking, has killed far more people and cost far more money than terrorism has over the last decade in the US. We're dealing with the threats we can beat because nobody wants to talk about how our capital system has run so amok.
 
2013-06-18 08:46:08 PM
so now there are going to be counter survellance measures put in. People here will start to learn to speak in code and disguise their IP addresses. measures taken in police states.
 
2013-06-18 08:50:16 PM

tinyarena: I just love their expressions,, [img.fark.net image 800x273] They all have the "was that wrong? should I not have done that?" look


That's not Feinstein's look.  She would NEVER admit anything she did was wrong.  That look is "how dare you question your betters, peasant!"

/I can't stand that c00nt
 
2013-06-18 08:51:08 PM
Yep, lets put the hurt on the entity that only houses most of our retirements and pensions.  That will show them.

*sigh*
 
2013-06-18 08:52:04 PM

weltallica: Wall Street?  PROTECTED.

Main Street?  YOUR FAULT FOR NOT BEING JOB CREATORS.



Far be it from moi to piss on anybody's petunia patch, but um.. the elitist swine ARE the terr'ists, and they have won and are eating  out of your fridge.
 
2013-06-18 08:55:23 PM

OgreMagi: That's not Feinstein's look. She would NEVER admit anything she did was wrong. That look is "how dare you question your betters, peasant!"


It would be nice if her career came full-circle.
 
2013-06-18 08:57:24 PM

umad: Hey now, it takes some time to talk a patsy into taking possession of your fake bomb so you can arrest them for it. They are going as fast as they can to inflate their numbers to make this "seem reasonable."


Read this:

img.fark.net

if you want to be thoroughly disgusted by the tactics the FBI is using in their stings.
 
2013-06-18 09:00:48 PM

jiggs: Which amendment was the "Ends justify the means" one?


Amendment Zed, the super double secret amendment only available to certain sectors of the government. Interestingly enough, it was written on psychic paper so it says whatever the person using it needs it to say. Quite convenient, really.
 
2013-06-18 09:07:59 PM
+1 Subby.
 
2013-06-18 09:09:04 PM
Paranoia strikes deep, Into your life it will creep.
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-18 09:10:51 PM

HighOnCraic: I was kidnapped once. I was standing in front of my schoolyard, and a black sedan pulls up. And two guys get out, and they say to me, do I wanna go away with them to a land, where everybody is fairies and elves, and I can have all the comic books I want and chocolate and wax lips, you know. And I said "yes", y'know, and I got into the car with them, 'cause I figured, y'know, "What the hell", I was home that week-end from college anyhow, y'know. They drive me off, and they sent a ransom note to my parents. And my father has bad reading habits, so he gets into bed at night with the ransom note, and he read half of it, y'know, and he got drowsy and fell asleep, then he lent it out, y'know.
Meanwhile they take me to New Jersey, bound and gagged, and my parents finally realize that I'm kidnapped. They snap into action immediately: they rent out my room. The ransom note says for my father to leave a thousand dollars in a hollow tree in New Jersey. He has no trouble raising the thousand dollars, but he gets a hernia carrying the hollow tree.
The FBI surround the house, "Throw the kid out,", they say, "give us your guns, and come out with your hands up."
The kidnappers say, "We'll throw the kid out, but let us keep our guns, and get to our car."
The FBI says, "Throw the kid out, we'll let you get to your car, but give us your guns."
The kidnappers say, "We'll throw the kid out, but let us keep our guns - we don't have to get to our car."
The FBI says, "Keep the kid."


... detachable penis ...
 
2013-06-18 09:12:30 PM

Delay: I don't want bombs killing anyone on any street. However, American Democracy thrives on validation. If the NSA snooping stopped any plots, let's hear about it. Let's hear about the. Now.

Why not tell all? None of banksters identified as crooks have been indicted for their obvious wrong-doing that caused the great recession that has left millions unemployed through no fault of their own. So, it's unlikely you will indict any of the plotters. Come on, you bureaucratic farkers, you say it's our country that you are attempting to save, it's time to show your cards, Exactly, how have you been saving us?


Sorry, but you're an idiot.  Google Cioffi and Tannin.  Indicted and acquitted by a jury of their peers.
 
2013-06-18 09:14:26 PM
Do not care.  I would rather have a 9/11 repeated every farking year than to have the government spying on us.
 
2013-06-18 09:15:45 PM

Mock26: Do not care.  I would rather have a 9/11 repeated every farking year than to have the government spying on us.


This is about warrantless spying.  If they have evidence and can get a warrant then by all means, spy away!
 
2013-06-18 09:16:55 PM

Wayne 985: I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.


First of all the only government agency that has any NEED to know about addresses on my envelopes is the USPS, and that is only to perform their duties, to deliver the damn letter.  No other agency should be keeping tabs on who I do or do not send mail to.  We're not in the farking USSR here.  Speaking of which:

I remember watching a show on one of the cable networks (forget which one, this was years ago) detailing the police work of the former East German state.  They went so far as to surreptitiously collect samples of used clothing and put them in labeled jars, so that in the event they wanted to find a subject, they would just grab that persons jar and let the hounds sniff the contents and hunt you down.  They would have East German citizens keep tabs on OTHER East Germans, by doing things such as attaching microphones to (old style) home heating radiators so they could bug everyone.  IIRC, at one point (according to the show) 1/3 of the populace was coerced into spying on the rest (and presumably each other).

But hey, fark all that.  This is the 21st century.  We just let computers spy on us, with the glorious approval of our bought and paid for elected overlords.

What could POSSIBLY go wrong?  I mean, it isn't like our government has a history of horrible abuses of power or anything.  You know, Bay of Tonkin, Agent Orange (Problem?  What problem?),

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/health/research/02infect.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/12/us/families-emerge-as-silent-victi ms -of-tuskegee-syphilis-experiment.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Ahhh, fark it.  I can't even be bothered to spend any more time on this.  I guess I will just OBEY, because sunshine and rainbows, that's why.  I need a friggin' drink.
 
2013-06-18 09:18:44 PM
img.fark.net
They bought it. You can begin.
 
2013-06-18 09:19:13 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: Paranoia strikes deep, Into your life it will creep.


It's not worth it. The illusion of security is not worth the cost of liberty.
 
2013-06-18 09:20:19 PM
They don't need all this power to catch terrorists. Look at their ineffectiveness in Boston. But really, that's not the point. They want to listen in, in order to keep their finger on the pulse of dissent, which there's no way they can get a court order for. They want to know just what people are saying about their little Martial Law exercise in Boston. Who, the pockets of resistance are going to crystallize around. Where they're going to have to send the shock troopers first to neutralize the strongest pockets of resistance whenever they begin whatever it is they have planned. You didn't think they've been arming every small-town police force with assault weaponry by accident, do you? Millions of weapons of war to deal with "terrorists"? Hint: the "terrorists" don't number in the millions. (Until the term is re-defined, that is.)

I know. I'm just jumping at shadows, right? I'm not the one purchasing millions of guns, and hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition.
 
2013-06-18 09:34:38 PM

whither_apophis: So if we've been recording calls why can't the DOJ listen in and find the evidence they need to prosecute banksters?


You expect them to bite the hand that feeds them?

Also, neither the Federal government or any agency thereof has any credibility on this matter.
 
2013-06-18 09:38:37 PM

tinyarena: Metadata: an massive relational index of information
Cloud Computing: sharing a complex program's task across many servers, effective for 'brute force' programming
Natural Language Algorithm: A program that teaches itself the relationship and meaning of communications

There is no human being snooping on you. There is an army of lighting fast, semi-intelligent machines snooping on us all.


A few more, that when combined with these reveal a rather distressing type of problem:
Apophenia (seeing patterns in numbers)
Pareidolia (seeing faces/images in noise)
Ideomotor Effect (not realizing you are the one causing the action)
Forer Effect ("We've got something for everybody!")
Filter Bubble (you're cool search tool is telling you what you want to hear, because you asked it to be "specific" or "efficient")

If the NSA has anywhere even CLOSE to the amount of data they are suspected of gathering (which is basically guaranteed at this point), they probability of finding ANYTHING you wanted to find approaches 100%. You end up seeing your own influence on the data more than any actual finding, because you're looking signal way below the noise floor.

Without even getting to the point where somebody tries to pull something malicious with all that power at their fingertips, the damage will already be done by a well-intentioned spook who's really just seeing things in clouds...

img.fark.net

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-18 09:39:30 PM

HeadLever: Yep, lets put the hurt on the entity that only houses most of our retirements and pensions.  That will show them.

*sigh*


Do you really believe that they're shuffling around stacks of cash and physical securities on Wall Street? Or that all the electronic data isn't backed up at multiple locations?
 
2013-06-18 09:49:44 PM

AndreMA: Do you really believe that they're shuffling around stacks of cash and physical securities on Wall Street?


About as much as you really believe that all the CEOs/CFOs of Bank of America, Halliburton, and Peabody are sitting in on the Floor of Wall Street.
 
2013-06-18 09:50:00 PM

somemoron: IIRC, at one point (according to the show) 1/3 of the populace was coerced into spying on the rest (and presumably each other).


http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1fv4r6/i_believe_the_g ov ernment_should_be_allowed_to/caeb3pl
 
2013-06-18 09:54:53 PM

OgreMagi: They count a kid with a pop tart as terrorists, so I'd take anything they say with a grain of salt.


A military age male with a pop tart. Case closed.
 
2013-06-18 09:55:23 PM

HeadLever: AndreMA: Do you really believe that they're shuffling around stacks of cash and physical securities on Wall Street?

About as much as you really believe that all the CEOs/CFOs of Bank of America, Halliburton, and Peabody are sitting in on the Floor of Wall Street.


I never asserted any such thing.
 
2013-06-18 09:56:53 PM

pdkl95: somemoron: IIRC, at one point (according to the show) 1/3 of the populace was coerced into spying on the rest (and presumably each other).

http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1fv4r6/i_believe_the_g ov ernment_should_be_allowed_to/caeb3pl


Already been done here, just ask Randy Weaver.
 
2013-06-18 09:59:24 PM

basemetal:


Don't you dare.
Don't you dare.

(I'll never see them again if I squeal to the cops)
 
2013-06-18 10:01:10 PM
^yea my brain saw "dance"^
 
2013-06-18 10:02:49 PM

AndreMA: I never asserted any such thing.


And I did?  Just playing the same game as you.
 
2013-06-18 10:06:59 PM

pdkl95: If the NSA has anywhere even CLOSE to the amount of data they are suspected of gathering (which is basically guaranteed at this point), they probability of finding ANYTHING you wanted to find approaches 100%. You end up seeing your own influence on the data more than any actual finding, because you're looking signal way below the noise floor.


Exactly.  My job involves cybersecurity and we use the exact opposite approach of the NSA because we're trying to filter out noise.  Grabbing all the info you can get your hands on only works if you start with a conclusion and intend to create a pattern to politically justify it.
 
2013-06-18 10:17:35 PM
The only thing we need is a good guy with a bomb on Wall St.
 
2013-06-18 10:19:52 PM

dittybopper: I'm sure the pervasive surveillance in the old Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany prevented many "terrorist" attacks there also.


Because the USA is Nazi Germany... You stupid f@&$
 
2013-06-18 10:20:01 PM

HeadLever: AndreMA: I never asserted any such thing.

And I did?  Just playing the same game as you.


HeadLever: Yep, lets put the hurt on the entity that only houses most of our retirements and pensions.  That will show them.

*sigh*


Putting the hurt on something "housed" somewhere implies that the something is physically present there, rather than simply managed from that location. So yeah, you did.
 
2013-06-18 10:29:50 PM

tjfly: dittybopper: I'm sure the pervasive surveillance in the old Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany prevented many "terrorist" attacks there also.

Because the USA is Nazi Germany... You stupid f@&$


Nah, Germany doesn't want any more Nazis.  They end up doing business with people like Prescott Bush.
 
2013-06-18 10:35:10 PM
You guys are so terrified of snooping? The government doesn't have time or energy to listen to all your boring calls. If I call my aunt or grandma in San Jose, it's all "How's the family, how's the weather, so did you see the doctor?" etc.

Totally riveting stuff I'm so sure the government gives a flying Fark about.

I'm not going divulge the top secret storage locations of Candian Maple Syrup over the phone or anything....
 
2013-06-18 10:38:54 PM

octopied: top secret storage locations of Candian Maple Syrup over the phone or anything...


*Resets the Person of Interest filter to 6*
 
2013-06-18 10:50:50 PM
Most americans would gladly paint a target on the building.
 
2013-06-18 10:53:49 PM

OgreMagi: tinyarena: I just love their expressions,, [img.fark.net image 800x273] They all have the "was that wrong? should I not have done that?" look

That's not Feinstein's look.  She would NEVER admit anything she did was wrong.  That look is "how dare you question your betters, peasant!"

/I can't stand that c00nt


I'm on board with this. I have not a good word to say about her.
 
2013-06-18 10:54:07 PM
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-18 10:56:56 PM
So, I guess this means the FBI is snooping on everyone, too?
 
2013-06-18 10:58:06 PM

Wayne 985: I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.


You're assuming that the NSA, FBI, et al are telling the entire the truth.  They've been caught lying before.
 
2013-06-18 11:00:53 PM

sendtodave: So, I guess this means the FBI is snooping on everyone, too?


Pretty much anybody with an office in DC knows what you eat, what time you sh*t it out and how many times you wipe, yeah.  And have for years.
 
2013-06-18 11:01:36 PM
Patriot act warrants granted
media.boingboing.net

Its all about those terrorists
 
2013-06-18 11:02:31 PM

tjfly: dittybopper: I'm sure the pervasive surveillance in the old Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany prevented many "terrorist" attacks there also.

Because the USA is Nazi Germany... You stupid f@&$


I noticed you left out the Soviet Union part.
 
2013-06-18 11:04:07 PM
Patriot.  A person who always does what the authorities of his native land tell him to do.  Patriot Act.  You do the math.
 
2013-06-18 11:06:05 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Turns out this "terror" plot was just some OWS moron planning to take a dump on the sidewalk in front of the exchange. Excuse me if I'm not impressed.


If the ows dude had eaten at Taco Bell it really could have been dangerous.
 
2013-06-18 11:29:35 PM
Amazing how many farkers demand the govt uphold the 4th amendment while simultaneously dismissing the 2nd. Because only hunters living off the land and murderers excercize their 2nd amendment right....or something
 
2013-06-18 11:35:45 PM

dragonchild: pdkl95: If the NSA has anywhere even CLOSE to the amount of data they are suspected of gathering (which is basically guaranteed at this point), they probability of finding ANYTHING you wanted to find approaches 100%. You end up seeing your own influence on the data more than any actual finding, because you're looking signal way below the noise floor.

Exactly.  My job involves cybersecurity and we use the exact opposite approach of the NSA because we're trying to filter out noise.  Grabbing all the info you can get your hands on only works if you start with a conclusion and intend to create a pattern to politically justify it.


Better yet, guys how many distributed Supercomputers do you have in series?  The NSA has hundreds of them.  Their normalization is fourth level exact.  There is no human interpretation involved.
 
2013-06-18 11:39:14 PM
THERE IS NO EXCUSE farkERS. JUST GET IT.
 
2013-06-18 11:42:02 PM

tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.


I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?
 
2013-06-18 11:43:36 PM

AndreMA: So yeah, you did.


Nope, you assertion of my point was that "they're shuffling around stacks of cash".  Where did I say that?   Wall Street is nothing but a metonym for the US financial markets.
 
2013-06-18 11:47:25 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.

I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?


Normalized Relational databases can be ranked from "Not Very Organized and Also Redundant" all the way up to "Very Organized and Unique."  There are typically four levels.
 
2013-06-19 12:05:07 AM

tinyarena: demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.

I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?

Normalized Relational databases can be ranked from "Not Very Organized and Also Redundant" all the way up to "Very Organized and Unique."  There are typically four levels.


Look, I know what normal forms are.
I know what fourth normal form is.
I even know what fifth normal form is - Sudha Ram has done a ton of work on what she calls "semantic databases".

What I don'tknow is what 4NF Exact is.
 
2013-06-19 12:06:56 AM

HeadLever: AndreMA: So yeah, you did.

Nope, you assertion of my point was that "they're shuffling around stacks of cash".  Where did I say that?   Wall Street is nothing but a metonym for the US financial markets.


Actually I said that you implied that the retirements and pensions were physically present on Wall Street, regardless of what the instruments were. But whatever; we're belaboring what appears to be a misunderstanding.
 
2013-06-19 12:18:09 AM

Science_Guy_3.14159: I don't get how this is "News", hasn't everyone always thought they were doing this? Hoover did far worse during the 5 decades he ran the FBI, he had investigations and wire taps on everyone. Look up some of the now declassified reports like the FBI investigations on Martin Luther King and John Lennon or the investigation of the song Louis Louis!


But Hoover was a criminal acting under his own authorization.

The NSA supposedly has government authorization to do what they are doing.
 
2013-06-19 12:22:58 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.

I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?

Normalized Relational databases can be ranked from "Not Very Organized and Also Redundant" all the way up to "Very Organized and Unique."  There are typically four levels.

Look, I know what normal forms are.
I know what fourth normal form is.
I even know what fifth normal form is - Sudha Ram has done a ton of work on what she calls "semantic databases".

What I don'tknow is what 4NF Exact is.


It's the fourth normal form of course, where "there are no non-trivial multivalued dependencies other than a candidate key."  And, since you know the other terms, you know the fourth form is the most unique, "exact" if you will.  Indeed, to maintain the fourth form is the hardest.  As new data relationships must be associated the database will swing down to a lower level and then back up when refinement occurs.  Good thing they have Supercomputers.
 
2013-06-19 12:40:55 AM
They mean that the phone tapping program helped them find a new kid to entrap with their own elaborate terrorist plot.
 
2013-06-19 12:45:15 AM

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.


Well, I'm sure it's true, in the same unverifiable way that people owning guns prevents billions of crimes every day.
 
2013-06-19 12:48:10 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.

I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?


It's the fourth in a series of attempts by members of a cult to spread the teachings of their Holy Codd, thereby infecting the rest of the world with their dangerous heresy. Their propaganda unfortunately tends artisans, philosophers, and other truth seekers due to the beauty inherent to their ideology. Fortunately, their beliefs have never spread that far, as the Followers of Codd tend to end up poor and destitute, due to their belief that cache is a sin.

/ok, I maaaaay have been fighting with a few too many ActiveRecord "quirks" today...
 
2013-06-19 12:55:08 AM
So they prevented, they say, um... sure a plan to bomb Wall Street.  Of course we're supposed to believe them because they say so.  As people point out, no one's been arrested or tried.  Although who knows, maybe they overheard a middle eastern goober yammering about blowing up wall street, and then denied his more studious cousin a student visa.

One notes that they didn't stop Wall Street from wrecking the economy. More people have committed suicide because they lost everything due to Wall Streets criminal actions than all the people killed by terrorists.
 
2013-06-19 01:13:49 AM
If you murder a 1,000 people statistically you've probably killed a few other murders, pedophiles, thieves and other undesirables so it's all a win, right?
 
2013-06-19 01:14:56 AM

pdkl95: demaL-demaL-yeH: tinyarena: Their normalization is fourth level exact.

I'll bite: WTF is "4NF exact"?

It's the fourth in a series of attempts by members of a cult to spread the teachings of their Holy Codd, thereby infecting the rest of the world with their dangerous heresy. Their propaganda unfortunately tends artisans, philosophers, and other truth seekers due to the beauty inherent to their ideology. Fortunately, their beliefs have never spread that far, as the Followers of Codd tend to end up poor and destitute, due to their belief that cache is a sin.

/ok, I maaaaay have been fighting with a few too many ActiveRecord "quirks" today...


You Boyce are taking this stuff a little too serially. These doctrines have concurrency problems. Who controls your holy records? Who may write? Who may read? I propose we table this.
 
2013-06-19 01:25:54 AM

Person: If you murder a 1,000 people statistically you've probably killed a few other murders, pedophiles, thieves and other undesirables so it's all a win, right?


Not necessarily. If you murdered 1,000 Buddhist monks in a remote monastery in Tibet, it's unlikely you removed any genuine threats to society, so the net gain would be negligible at best.
 
2013-06-19 01:35:13 AM

Gyrfalcon: Person: If you murder a 1,000 people statistically you've probably killed a few other murders, pedophiles, thieves and other undesirables so it's all a win, right?

Not necessarily. If you murdered 1,000 Buddhist monks in a remote monastery in Tibet, it's unlikely you removed any genuine threats to society, so the net gain would be negligible at best.


15 yard penalty, moving goalposts.  Do not repeat 3rd down
 
2013-06-19 02:14:17 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Gyrfalcon: Person: If you murder a 1,000 people statistically you've probably killed a few other murders, pedophiles, thieves and other undesirables so it's all a win, right?

Not necessarily. If you murdered 1,000 Buddhist monks in a remote monastery in Tibet, it's unlikely you removed any genuine threats to society, so the net gain would be negligible at best.

15 yard penalty, moving goalposts.  Do not repeat 3rd down


It was a bite on a troll post. Let it go
 
2013-06-19 02:29:20 AM
They were probably getting this "threat info" from drunk OWS kids who wouldnt have the drive to actually follow through on ANY plan, much less one that involves them to carry a bomb six blocks.
 
2013-06-19 06:09:56 AM

gibbon1: So they prevented, they say, um... sure a plan to bomb Wall Street.  Of course we're supposed to believe them because they say so.  As people point out, no one's been arrested or tried.  Although who knows, maybe they overheard a middle eastern goober yammering about blowing up wall street, and then denied his more studious cousin a student visa.

One notes that they didn't stop Wall Street from wrecking the economy. More people have committed suicide because they lost everything due to Wall Streets criminal actions than all the people killed by terrorists.


This is what farklibs actually believe>
 
2013-06-19 07:10:37 AM

HeadLever: AndreMA: So yeah, you did.

Nope, you assertion of my point was that "they're shuffling around stacks of cash".  Where did I say that?   Wall Street is nothing but a metonym for the US financial markets.


Maybe they really hate Duane Reed.
 
2013-06-19 07:29:43 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: gibbon1: So they prevented, they say, um... sure a plan to bomb Wall Street.  Of course we're supposed to believe them because they say so.  As people point out, no one's been arrested or tried.  Although who knows, maybe they overheard a middle eastern goober yammering about blowing up wall street, and then denied his more studious cousin a student visa.

One notes that they didn't stop Wall Street from wrecking the economy. More people have committed suicide because they lost everything due to Wall Streets criminal actions than all the people killed by terrorists.

This is what farklibs actually believe>


I can't speak for Wall Street, but because the TSA's "Security Theater" is so offensive and insulting, a lot of people have decided to drive when they normally would have flown. This has lead to an additional 500 deaths per year. Of course, given the number of years that have passed "post 9/11"... that means more people have died avoiding the TSA than have died to to terrorism against the USA.

So what do you say: was that $20 billion/year budget (or whatever it's up to now) and all idiocy, inconveniences, and general bad attitude from the TSA worth it? This extra cost in lives now means that the terrorists would have been *safer* by comparison. A whole lot cheaper, too.
 
2013-06-19 08:04:56 AM

pdkl95: Debeo Summa Credo: gibbon1: So they prevented, they say, um... sure a plan to bomb Wall Street.  Of course we're supposed to believe them because they say so.  As people point out, no one's been arrested or tried.  Although who knows, maybe they overheard a middle eastern goober yammering about blowing up wall street, and then denied his more studious cousin a student visa.

One notes that they didn't stop Wall Street from wrecking the economy. More people have committed suicide because they lost everything due to Wall Streets criminal actions than all the people killed by terrorists.

This is what farklibs actually believe>

I can't speak for Wall Street, but because the TSA's "Security Theater" is so offensive and insulting, a lot of people have decided to drive when they normally would have flown. This has lead to an additional 500 deaths per year. Of course, given the number of years that have passed "post 9/11"... that means more people have died avoiding the TSA than have died to to terrorism against the USA.

So what do you say: was that $20 billion/year budget (or whatever it's up to now) and all idiocy, inconveniences, and general bad attitude from the TSA worth it? This extra cost in lives now means that the terrorists would have been *safer* by comparison. A whole lot cheaper, too.


I agree. I've died several times driving instead of flying.
 
2013-06-19 08:09:15 AM

tinyarena: Better yet, guys how many distributed Supercomputers do you have in series? The NSA has hundreds of them. Their normalization is fourth level exact. There is no human interpretation involved.


Yeah, people really believe that.  "Normalization" is not an impressive word to someone who's used it on a regular basis, and the idea that there's no human interpretation involved based on that is laughable.  No human interpretation at all?  Really? Well, sure, once you've decided what you're going to normalize.  In this case it's. . . phone logs.  Nope, not getting a warm fuzzy here.  Strikes me as idiots telling the competent what to do.

There's always human interpretation.  There has to be; at the very end this stuff will presumably be used to create stuff like arrest warrants and case evidence -- very human processes, built around the premise of what's defined as probable cause or guilt.  Which means right out of the gate we have human expectations built into the whole system, after all -- spectacularly stupid ones, at that.  So there goes your notion that "normalization" or supercomputers is your salvation.  Gimme somebody who knows what the hell they're doing.
 
2013-06-19 08:31:53 AM
Also, that pile of rocks the NSA accumulated has done wonders keeping away tigers.
 
2013-06-19 08:53:14 AM
Wait, that would have been bad?

Well, yeah.  The shoeshine guy might have been among the dead.
 
2013-06-19 08:59:42 AM

fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.


Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.


http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef">http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/ public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef
 
2013-06-19 11:02:22 AM
Wait, when and how did the FBI stop the student loan bubble?
 
2013-06-19 11:04:17 AM

dragonchild: tinyarena: Better yet, guys how many distributed Supercomputers do you have in series? The NSA has hundreds of them. Their normalization is fourth level exact. There is no human interpretation involved.

Yeah, people really believe that.  "Normalization" is not an impressive word to someone who's used it on a regular basis, and the idea that there's no human interpretation involved based on that is laughable.  No human interpretation at all?  Really? Well, sure, once you've decided what you're going to normalize.  In this case it's. . . phone logs.  Nope, not getting a warm fuzzy here.  Strikes me as idiots telling the competent what to do.

There's always human interpretation.  There has to be; at the very end this stuff will presumably be used to create stuff like arrest warrants and case evidence -- very human processes, built around the premise of what's defined as probable cause or guilt.  Which means right out of the gate we have human expectations built into the whole system, after all -- spectacularly stupid ones, at that.  So there goes your notion that "normalization" or supercomputers is your salvation.  Gimme somebody who knows what the hell they're doing.


No, normalization is not the scary part.  Natural Language algorithms and related techniques are.  A combination of abundant data, high speed hardware, brute force computing, relational data bases, and NLAs combine to create a very intuitive analysis capability.

And that's all before a human ever requests a query.
 
2013-06-19 12:33:06 PM

tinyarena: And that's all before a human ever requests a query.


And there's the rub -- a query about what?  My phone-sex calls to your mom?  You can't eliminate human involvement from a fundamentally human process, making the whole "grab info first and ask questions later" a completely backwards process as far as justice is concerned.  Ttrying to justify it by dazzling me with technical terms I'm all too familiar with only makes you sound delusional.  I've designed relational databases for a living FFS.  Your posts read like stock dialogue from an antagonist in a bad Michael Crichton novel.
 
2013-06-19 01:37:04 PM

dragonchild: tinyarena: And that's all before a human ever requests a query.

And there's the rub -- a query about what?  My phone-sex calls to your mom?  You can't eliminate human involvement from a fundamentally human process, making the whole "grab info first and ask questions later" a completely backwards process as far as justice is concerned.  Ttrying to justify it by dazzling me with technical terms I'm all too familiar with only makes you sound delusional.  I've designed relational databases for a living FFS.  Your posts read like stock dialogue from an antagonist in a bad Michael Crichton novel.


You're right, this does all sound like a bad Michael Crichton novel.  The main points are:
We are all being spied on constantly.
The machines can scoop, spot, and flag suspicious activities without a human directing them.
Is acceptable to you?  Do you like living in a high-tech police state?
 
2013-06-19 01:44:49 PM
Wait, are we even arguing?  I understand the technical aspects of the points you're making a lot better than whatever you're trying to prove with them.
 
2013-06-19 01:59:53 PM

dragonchild: Wait, are we even arguing?  I understand the technical aspects of the points you're making a lot better than whatever you're trying to prove with them.


We aren't arguing.  None of the capabilities I've mentioned are 'dazzling' to anyone with a current knowledge of IT.  When all these abilities are combined with a blatant violation of our constitutional rights we have a big problem.  And you haven't answered my question.
 
2013-06-19 02:59:05 PM

tinyarena: Do you like living in a high-tech police state?


I really don't care if it's high tech or low tech; a police state is a police state, and that's never a good thing.  That this particular program is justified by smoke & mirrors like the theory that Technology is Impeccable is really just marketing.
 
2013-06-19 04:38:31 PM

dragonchild: tinyarena: Do you like living in a high-tech police state?

I really don't care if it's high tech or low tech; a police state is a police state, and that's never a good thing.  That this particular program is justified by smoke & mirrors like the theory that Technology is Impeccable is really just marketing.


And the theory that monolithic dot.coms and cold blooded, violent morons or secret agents are the "new" rock stars is utter horsesh*t.
 
2013-06-19 05:50:31 PM
It's interesting that the only releases they've made have all been plots that would have been found without PRISM.


/Why haven't they trotted out some guy from gitmo to say "yeah PRISM caught me"
//Oh yeah, because it hasn't done anything.
///Politicians lying. Why I never....
 
2013-06-19 05:53:26 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef">http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/ public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef


Those were all FBI sting operations. The general procedure is to get an informant to encourage someone to start a plot and then give them all the money and materials they need to carry it out. I don't think the NSA is involved at all. About half of the charges are for "Making false statements" or "Conspiracy to provide material support". Most of those people wouldn't have done jack shiat without the aid and encouragement of an FBI informant who only gets paid after a successful prosecution.
 
2013-06-19 06:01:37 PM

fusillade762: ThrobblefootSpectre: fusillade762: testified that the programs helped stop more than 50 "potential terrorist events" since the 9/11 attacks.

Yesterday it was 20. I'm betting by the end of the week it'll be up to a thousand.

Aarontology: Amazing how we didn't hear about any foiled plots, or had any trials for those committing them, or anything at all that would verify their story.

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id= a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef">http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/ public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=a dec6e10-68ed-4413-8934-3623edc62cef

Those were all FBI sting operations. The general procedure is to get an informant to encourage someone to start a plot and then give them all the money and materials they need to carry it out. I don't think the NSA is involved at all. About half of the charges are for "Making false statements" or "Conspiracy to provide material support". Most of those people wouldn't have done jack shiat without the aid and encouragement of an FBI informant who only gets paid after a successful prosecution.


Entrap your friends!

For freedom!
 
2013-06-19 07:22:10 PM

Bucky Katt: Wayne 985: I'm dying to know what opponents of this NSA programs think the administration got out of this aside from legitimate defense. They weren't even listening to calls; they were looking at records. It's like if they kept records of the addresses on your envelopes, but didn't open the letters. I'm baffled as to what nefarious activity people think they could have been up to.

You're assuming that the NSA, FBI, et al are telling the entire the truth.  They've been caught lying before.


Uh... You realize they weren't the folks who broke the story and gave details, right?
 
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